#cluster b disorder

[naofaun]

it's always “i support cluster b!!!” until someone genuinely cannot even pretend to feel empathy. then you get angry and call us insensitive lol. sorry honey i can only pretend to feel something i can't feel so much before i burn myself out

[alexandraisyes]

What is the difference between sociopath and psychopath?

OH! OH OH OH I LOVE THIS QUESTION. Also this is a massive explanation that really goes in-depth about neurology so I'll do a read more.

The main difference is that a psychopath is born with ASPD. A sociopath develops it during early (we're talking starting off as young as 2) childhood due to severe long-term (several years) abuse and neglect (generally from main caretakers).

There are also some nuances in how a socio's brain works in comparison to a psycho's. But the major difference that really determines all of the minor differences is that a psychopath doesn't necessarily have trauma related to their ASPD, and tends to have a lot less comorbid disorders. A sociopath ALWAYS has trauma that directly caused their ASPD and a fucking CVS receipt of comorbid disorders the large majority of the time.

There are also more sociopaths than there are psychopaths. The physiology of ASPD is that the brain's structure is different from an empathetic person. Specifically in the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala, because there's not enough activity in those areas for someone with ASPD. The prefrontal cortex is involved in decision-making, impulse control, and regulation of social behavior, and the amygdala is involved in emotion processing and fear response. Abnormalities in the amygdala contribute to a lack of empathy and increased aggression (aggression does NOT equal violence in this case, but rather an increased and pervasive level of negative emotion that makes you more likely to act out). Genetics have been proven to play a factor in how likely someone who was born empathetic would develop ASPD.

The difference here is that a psychopath is born with reduced blood flow to those areas. No trauma needed, that's just how they work.

On the contrary, a sociopath develops reduced blood flow to those areas because if you live in an environment that fosters the growth of anti-social traits and behaviors you are not exercising those parts of your brain. I'll go into a deep dive about the neurological aspects of how formative trauma turns into ASPD.

Chronic stress from abuse can impair the development of the prefrontal cortex; reduced activity or structural abnormalities in this area can lead to increased impulsivity and difficulty regulating emotions. The amygdala becomes hyperactive due to repeated exposure to threatening situations. This results in heightened aggression and reduced ability to empathize with others. Abuse can lead to a smaller hippocampus, impairing the ability to process emotions and increasing vulnerability to stress.

Chronic abuse elevates cortisol levels (the stress hormone), which can alter brain function and structure. Persistent high cortisol levels can damage the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, exacerbating emotional and behavioral regulation issues. Serotonin and dopamine neurotransmitters regulate mood and behavior. Abuse can disrupt their levels, contributing to aggression, impulsivity, and difficulty experiencing pleasure or reward.

The autonomic nervous system (ANS) becomes hyperactive, leading to a state of constant alertness and readiness for perceived threats. This can cause chronic anxiety, irritability, and aggressive responses. Conversely, some individuals may develop a blunted stress response, showing reduced physiological reactions to stress. This can lead to a lack of fear or concern for consequences. (These two may combine so that safe things trigger stress and unsafe things do not).

Abusive environments can impair the development of secure attachments, leading to difficulties in forming trusting relationships. This can foster detachment, manipulative behavior, and a lack of empathy. Inconsistent or abusive parenting can disrupt normal emotional development, making it difficult for individuals to manage their emotions and impulses. This can result in volatile behavior and poor emotional control. Abusive environments often model and reinforce antisocial behaviors. Children learn to cope with stress through aggression or manipulation, which can become ingrained patterns of behavior. Abusive environments can impede moral development, leading to difficulties in understanding and adhering to societal norms and rules. This can result in a disregard for others' rights and a propensity for criminal behavior.

Trauma and abuse can also alter gene expression through epigenetic changes, affecting the brain's development and function. These changes can increase the risk of developing ASPD by influencing genes involved in stress response, emotional regulation, and social behavior.

A lot of people who went through severe childhood abuse may experience anti-social symptoms without having full-blown ASPD. When I was younger I did a genetic test that led to some very fascinating results that now that I'm older and understand my disorder I understand how my ASPD ties directly into my genetic depression, or rather my genetic depression is caused by my ASPD.

I don't process/produce Vitamin B6, B9 (Folate), and B12. These vitamins are crucial for brain function and the production of neurotransmitters. Deficiencies lead to mood disorders, cognitive impairments, and other neurological issues. B vitamins are involved in synthesizing neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, which regulate mood and behavior. These are neurotransmitters that act as natural painkillers and mood enhancers. B vitamins play a role in the metabolic pathways that produce endorphins. An inability to properly absorb, process, or produce B vitamins can disrupt these pathways, leading to lower endorphin levels, which can contribute to symptoms of depression and affect overall mental well-being.

Because of how specific my issue is I had to take a specialized blend of B Vitamins. Unfortunately once I turned 18 my parents stopped buying them for me and I haven't had the funds to purchase my own at all since I was cut off (which has led to my mental health tanking). I strongly suggest anyone who deals with anti-social traits in a way that is disruptive to their daily life to look into these. You can't generally find them at a drug store, but they're on Amazon for 25-ish USD for a month's worth bottle. Which is really good because when my parents were buying them two years ago or so they were 40$ a bottle.

I have been on all sorts of mood stabilizing medications, psychosis medications, anti-depressants, anxiety medication, etc. None of them worked because we didn't know what exactly was wrong with me. All it did was make it so I couldn't feel the negative emotions properly, so I was constantly numb. What the vitamins did for me is that they let me process passive endorphin exchange and metabolism for the first time in my life, which meant that there wasn't a drastic barrier between me and positive emotions.

I strongly suggest this for anyone who is also just dealing with mood instabilities/disorders because it helped immensely. I'm bipolar two and I wasn't dealing with any major manic episodes while I was on them for about two years, so it helped drastically in that aspect too.

I know this got a little off the rails, but sociopathy is such a hard disorder to deal with, and it's so demonized by the media. Just telling someone you're a clinical sociopath is enough for them to kick you out of their life, even though it has no reflection on your character and is just an outcome of a horrible, hell-like childhood. So I think it's important for ASPD voices to speak up about the disorder when they can and try to dispel some of the awful stigmatization.

[commonzinnia]

yeah, sorry i exhibited symptoms of the disorder i told you i have. it will happen again because i have that disorder and will continue having it. hope this helps!! 🫶🫶🫶

[ohara-n-brown]

As a late diagnosed autist I will say one of the most damaging but transformative experiences I've ever had was being misdiagnosed with BPD.

Everyday my heart goes out to people with BPD.

The amount of stigma and silencing they face is astonishing and sickening.

I took DBT for years. Therapists use to turn me away because of my diagnosis.

I would be having full blown autistic meltdowns, crying for help literally - but because I was labeled as BPD ANY time I cried I was treated as manipulative and unstable.

As if the only reason I could be crying was if I was out to trick someone.

95% of the books out there with Borderline in the title are named shit like 'How to get away from a person with Borderline', 'How to stop walking on eggshells (with a person who has BPD)'

I was never allowed to feel true pain or panic or need.

That was 'attention seeking behavior', not me asking for help when a disability was literally inhibiting my ability to process emotions.

There were dozens of times where I had a full meltdown and was either threatened with institutionalization or told I was doing it for attention.

My failing relationships weren't due to a communication issue, or the inability to read social cues. No, because I was labeled borderline, my unstable relationships were my fault. Me beggong nuerotypicals to just be honest and blunt with what they meant was me pestering them for validation.

Borderline patients can't win.

And the funny thing is - I asked my therapist about autism. I told her I thought I was on the spectrum.

BPD is WILDLY misdiagnosed with those with autism and I had many clear signs.

Instead - she told me 'If you were autistic we wouldn't be able to have this conversation'. She made me go through a list of autistic traits made clearly for children, citing how I didn't fit each one.

And then she told me that me identifying with the autism community was the BPD making me search for identity to be accepted - and that I wasn't autistic, just desperate to fit in somewhere.

I didn't get diagnosed for another ten years. For ten years I avoided the autism community - feeling as if I were just a broken person who wanted to steal from people who 'really needed it'.

Because of my providers - I began to doubt my identity MORE, not less.

Ten years of thinking I was borderline and being emotionally neglected and demonized by a system meant to help me.

To this day, I still don't trust neurotypicals. Not fully.

I know I'm not borderline now - but my heart aches for them. Not for the usual stuff. But for the stigma. And the asshole doctors. And the dismissiveness and threatening and the idea of institutionalization hanging over their head.

I love Borderline people. I always will. I'm not Borderline but if you are I love you and I'm sorry.

You're not a bad person. You're not a therapists worst nightmare, you are a human with valid feelings and fears.

Borderline people I'm sorry.

[happyherringbonkpickle]

[autopsyfreak]

my anhedonia is eating me alive so i’m making these mental illness memes to cope

[chronicsymptomsyndrome]

*displays textbook symptomatic behavior of my own disorder that I am well educated on* what’s my deal why am I like this

[morbidcrow24]

do I want an apology or do I want to beat the shit out of them

[worms-in-my-brain]

People with psychotic disorders are neurodivergent too.

People with personality disorders are neurodivergent too.

People with substance abuse disorders are neurodivergent too.

People with tic disorders are neurodivergent too.

People with bipolar disorder are neurodivergent too.

People with dissociative disorders are neurodivergent too.

Neurodivergence isn’t just ADHD, autism, anxiety, and depression. (Plus those last two also get left out sometimes!) Neurodivergence is anything that affects your brain.

“Neurodivergent people hate loud noises” is actually just as valid as a statement as “neurodivergent people have delusions,” “neurodivergent people have tics,” or even “neurodivergent people have low empathy.”

[naofaun]

bpd + npd combo is fighting every urge to run back to your abuser, even though it's been years, because you get addicted to people who hurt you most

[alexandraisyes]

i’ve been thinking about dark sun for a while now so i’m dropping my thoughts into your ask box

when dark sun was first introduced i took ONE look at that mf and went “this man is def schizoid.”

i’m gonna dump the dsm criteria for szpd in here real quick

DSM-5 Criteria

- A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

1. Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family.

2. Almost always chooses solitary activities.

3. Has little, if any, interest in having intimate experiences with another person. (note: i changed the wording from sexual to intimate here because it can be seen as an attempt to pathologize asexuality, and that’s not very cool of the DSM)

4. Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities.

5. Lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives.

6. Appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others.

7. Shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity.

disclaimer here, considering the recent lore on dark sun, i don’t think he’s Entirely Schizoid anymore, but he def has Some Traits. I’ll mostly just be talking about my earlier thoughts on him before all the shit with Ruin, Nexus, and Eclipse happened

when he was first introduced (and through some of his subsequent interactions) i could SMELL the apathy and anhedonia on this bitch. i mean LOOK at this man

dark sun was obviously Very Detached and seemed unbothered by his solitude/overall Lack of Social Relationships, in fact i think he preferred it

i can’t say anything about him enjoying any activities (even with current lore) (which in it of itself might say something about him) i’m not sure if this guy truly Enjoys anything he does, he seems quite apathetic to it all

him lacking close confidents is. kind of self explanatory, he was very much Alone in his dimension (moon does not count, i’m not sure if that guy was even functional). his indifference is also self explanatory i think

i already mentioned his Detachment, but he definitely experiences flattened activity, i don’t think we’ve ever seen him sound/be remotely emotional

he also does appear to experience some level of grandiosity/superiority complex, which is actually something that can be experienced with SZPD (not to be confused with grandiosity in NPD)

for SZPD, they may experience grandiosity as a defense mechanism. it should be noted that people with SZPD who display these behaviors may not believe they are a “great” person. rather it’s a mask to protect themselves. think of it as a means to maintain their independence (avoid being “controlled”) or cover up their own emotional inavailability.

here’s a tumblr post with some screenshots about SZPD & grandiosity (from a book about SZPD) that you may find useful: https://hauntedselves.tumblr.com/post/715822672943202304/schizoid-defences-omnipotence-and-grandiosity

now, does dark sun genuinely believe he’s great/superior? honestly idk LMAO if anyone has any idea lmk

ANYWAYS, this is probably really jumbled (rip) but i tried my best. i’m just a guy with szpd who thinks it’s Really Neat when characters display symptoms of a disorder i have

i hope you enjoyed my Thoughts 🐐

Hi and thanks for the ask! And it actually makes a lot of sense as to why you would think he has ScPD considering it's commonly mixed up with ASPD by the general public.

Firstly, I think it's important to recognize that ScPD is a Cluster A disorder, and ASPD (his canon diagnosis) is a Cluster B disorder. The two clusters have similar but different criteria and generalized behaviors.

Both disorders involve difficulties in social interactions. ScPD individuals have discomfort in close relationships and may exhibit eccentric behaviors, while those with ASPD may disregard others' rights and engage in manipulative or deceitful behavior. People with ScPD may exhibit paranoid thoughts and suspiciousness, which can superficially resemble the manipulative and distrustful behaviors seen in ASPD.

ScPD is characterized by eccentric behavior, odd beliefs, and social anxiety. In contrast, ASPD involves a lack of empathy, disregard for social norms, and manipulative or anti-social behavior. Individuals with ScPD often behave oddly due to cognitive distortions and discomfort in social situations, not intending harm. Those with ASPD often act with intentional disregard for others' rights and may engage in harmful behavior without remorse.

Mental health professionals use structured diagnostic tools and criteria (like those in the DSM-5) to distinguish between these disorders accurately. This process includes detailed interviews, psychological assessments, and consideration of the individual's history and behavior patterns. This second part is especially important because if you look at the DSM-5 criteria a lot of behaviors are generalized and therefore a lot of different specific behaviors get glossed over. This is how I ended up with an autism diagnosis (I am not autistic in the slightest) and almost got shackled with a BPD diagnosis too because the people diagnosing me weren't taking the time to figure out what I was actually like and listening to the general behaviors.

Misunderstanding can occur in non-clinical settings due to a lack of detailed knowledge about the specific features of each disorder. The term "personality disorder" itself can lead to confusion, as people might assume all personality disorders have similar characteristics. Media often portrays individuals with personality disorders in a sensationalized manner. For example, characters with ASPD are frequently depicted in media as violent criminals or masterminds, while those with SCPD might be shown as eccentric loners or “weirdos.” These portrayals lack the nuance of real-life experiences and can lead to stereotypical views that do not accurately represent the spectrum of symptoms or the daily challenges faced by individuals with these disorders.

Some symptoms can appear similar across different personality disorders, leading to confusion. For instance, both ASPD and SCPD can involve social difficulties, but for very different reasons. Without a thorough understanding of the specific criteria for each disorder, people might conflate the two or misinterpret behaviors.

I think it's important to remember that as far as canon goes, he was labeled with ASPD from the get-go, and they have been extremely consistent with portraying ASPD traits in his character. However, as far as fanon goes, do whatever you want bro. I'm in full support of having headcanons and such.

As far as superiority, survey says yes. However, not in the sense of grandiosity that comes with arrogance or the belief that one is better than others which is commonly associated with disorders like NPD and ScPD, as well as others. I actually talked about what it's like for someone with ASPD/low empathy in this regard and I'll go ahead and grab that.

Fourthly, as someone who believes themself to be both superior and inferior of their peers at most all times, but never an equal, as well as having experience with other's who are similar to myself in nature, I will have to debunk that last statement entirely. You cannot feel superior to something if you do not understand it, because how else are you able to make that judgement. Most often people who genuinely know that they are above their peers understand their peers more than their peers understand themselves, and it is not a snobbish, arrogant superiority, but rather a knowledge, deep and lonesome in nature, that you will be lucky to chance upon another who can match your own understanding. It is not a cruel, vindictive behavior, but rather the turn of pages and the avoidance of others because they exhaust you by being overly concerned with things that you know have no real importance. People around you are tedious at worst, and amusing at best. There is a difference between genuinely being superior and being casted in this knowledge that is fact, and considering yourself better than another person. More often than not those who are genuinely above others in their understanding are the ones who are most aware that they are then rendered as less than, for they can no longer comfortably exist among their peers, and as humans are social creatures, one who cannot do such at ease are cast aside by the crowds as well. It creates both a hermit and a pariah out of a being.

This specific snippet was from a debate about Gemini having low empathy but also applies to characters (and people) with ASPD.

Also thank you for coming in here to share! I think you raise a lot of good points that would have been extremely relevant and informative, and still are extremely informative. Maybe not as relevant however since we already know that Helios is canonically ASPD, haha. However, it was so nice to hear your thoughts and about you're experiences (indirectly), so thank you so much for sharing (again)!

[commonzinnia]

i wish i could feel emotions the normal amount

[unknowinglydeceasedlol]

I genuinely mourn the person I could have been.

[a-healthy-dose-of-apathy]

i feel like someone dead pretending to be alive

[kitten-forward]

[youlookkindadead]

i've seen quite a bit of confusion about this, so let me attempt to clear things up :

empathy is the ability to feel somebody's emotions as though they are affecting you personally. for example, somebody tells you "my dog died last night!" -> you now feel as though you've lost a pet personally -> you feel grief and sadness just like the other person. not everyone has empathy. it's a trait some people develop and others don't. some have high empathy, some have low empathy, some (like me) have none.

sympathy is the ability to understand and care about somebody else's struggles, even if you don't feel them yourself. so, somebody tells you their dog died -> you realize how this affects them emotionally -> you care about this person, and are upset that they are suffering. not everyone has sympathy either! it's a scale, just like empathy.

compassion is doing something to relieve another person's suffering or make them feel better. somebody tells you their dog died -> you don't want them to remain upset -> you come up with ways to help them feel better, like offering comfort and distractions, or other forms of support. compassion is a learned trait, not something you can be born with like empathy or sympathy. anyone can learn to be compassionate, although some may struggle more with it than others; it's a skill, just like anything else.

however, none of these are required to be a good person. that's a choice you make on your own accord. i hope this clears things up!