#this is another example of the shit you say about fictional characters

[suckinitup]

gets up on my little stage with my secret little four followers blog and turns off reblogs. i think that a lot of current mcyt/mcyt fandom rn would be defending anne rice literally suing fanfic writers who shipped her characters. creators do not have a say in fan works or fan spaces for a REASON. they dont get to say what we make just like we dont get to say what they make. if we dont like their work we can avoid it just like if they dont like ours they can avoid it- UNLESS. someone else. decides to shove it in their face. can you fucking imagine. youve got this one story trope that you absolutely hate or that makes you really uncomfortable and this one jackass keeps showing it off to you. and that is somehow the norm for some of these fandoms??? i have seen elder fans cringe away in HORROR at the concept of how involved mcyt creators are in their fanbases. i grew up writing fics plastered with "I DONT OWN THIS" disclaimers on a website that, straight up, Did Not Allow You to post about certain works by certain authors. if an author didn't want you to create any fanwork, you Were Not Allowed. Doesn't that sound familiar. stories are built on top of other stories on top of other stories on top of other stories. it doesn't matter if someone creates something that grosses you out- all those authors who were disgusted by the queer shipping of their characters were ABSOLUTELY grossed out. the point isn't protecting the creators from others' creations the point is to take inspiration from something you love and to MAKE !!

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

To add onto that Malleus popularity speculation, I think another major reason why that you never mentioned is the simple fact that characters of Malleus' archetype are just more popular in general in the west amongst working age women.

There are plenty of adult novel containing male supernatural love interests. Fae and vampire romance novels are still extremely popular amongst adult readers. A Court of Thorns and Roses is technically an ADULT novel, NOT YA. Even m|m supernatural stories even fall into this category with Stolas/Blitz from Helluva Boss being an extremely popular over here. That pairing is from an adult animated show. Stolas shares a lot of similarities with Malleus.

Hell, even if you step into western contemporary romance novels, the male love interest tends to be more brooding and angsty with flawed leads. Everything from classic literature like Jane Eyre to modern shit like anything Colleen Hoover writes. (Don't get it twisted. I'm NOT saying that Malleus is anything like those leads. Just using those very popular example of brooding bad boy love interests in adult contemporary fiction in the west.)

Meanwhile in East Asia, those sorts of leads tend to be geared towards teenagers. Working age women want a more stable, realistic love interest that would take care of them like Trey.

Westerners seem to prefer more complex, intense romantic relationships, where the stakes feel higher and the emotional payoff is more significant. They will naturally write Trey off as a "big brother" character instead of seeing him as a romantic lead material thanks to being more used to seeing characters like Malleus as the love interest in stories.

I could be way off base, since I'm not Asian and far from being an expert on Japanese culture, but that's my two cents based on my observations. This is also based on broad generalizations. Neither culture is a monolith.

[Referencing this post and (more specifically!) my speculation here!]

Oh, for sure 💀 I made a post a while ago talking about how Malleus (especially from the yumejoshi/self-shipping perspective) reminds me a lot of the new "Shadow Daddy" archetype that has emerged in the romantasy genre. I mean, just look at how many of the Shadow Daddy traits Malleus ticks off:

is a nonhuman being (usually fae)

500 yrs old (or at least several hundred years old or a significant age gap between the Shadow Daddy love interest and typically female main character)

looks young and hot/conventionally attractive despite the age

is OP (usually with shadow/night/darkness related magic)

is royalty or in some kind of position of power

dark hair and/or skin (sometimes both)

“morally grey” and/or has issues (you can fix him)

brooding

looks or is rumored to be intimidating but is actually lonely and misunderstood, with a heart of gold

animalistic in some manner (usually with bat/raven/dragon-like wings)

has a tattoo or some kind of bodily markings (Malleus has the scales under his hair; you could also count the OB facial markings I guess)

Outside of romantasy novels geared towards older teens (18-19) and adults, the west seems to really love brooding bad boys as love interests in a lot of its media. Something else I noticed is that the "good guys" or the "boy next door" types like Trey tend to be "the other man" in heterosexual love triangles, which miiight also explain why he gets looked over in the western fandom. (I discussed some of my own observations, which are similar to the points mentioned here, in the posts linked above.)

I wouldn’texactly phrase it like westerners preferring "more complex, intense romantic relationships [... with higher stakes and more significant emotional payoff]", as that unintentionally implies that there has to be brooding or angst in order for the story or character arc to be "good". I feel a lot of it actually depends on the execution rather than the tropes present. For example, I've seen many "Shadow Daddies" that exist purely for wish fulfillment rather than emotional or story/character complexity (which, to be clear, there's nothing wrong with if this is the kind of thing you enjoy!). Wholesome or "normal" romances also have the capacity to be complex, intense, high-stakes, and emotionally significant too! Again, it all depends on the quality of writing and what one's personal preferences are. You'll find outliers regardless of culture as well--as the asker has stated, no culture is a monolith!

[thepeculiarauthor]

we got another two years prob till link click season 3 so i'm gon talk about everything i love about this series thanks

human trafficking rep. holy shit. a more realistic approach to the mental trauma involved for all parties.

the VAs slapped, regardless of what sub/dub you pick, they all slayed

suicide awareness. so many shows shy away from this when trauma/etc are very real and suicide is often faced as an option. link click takes this and goes "hell no. live. FUXKING LIVE NO MATTER WHAT" and it's 11/10. you're loved. please. stay.

the bonds. not a lot of fiction anymore just shows GENUINE relationships. it's either abusive shit or fluffy shit -- neither are 'good' or realistic. but link click comes along and has functioning adult relationships that Still have issues and problems and arguments and disagreements bUT love is still present in those relationships bc they're healthy

it's also a reminder that genuine love / relationships aren't based on what you can give, etc. (as adults i think we forget this often and we feel we have to deserve a relationship; link click says f this)

a big theme of the story is making mistakes!!!!! so many fictional stories either 1) take the 'aw i messed up again:(' approach or 'my mc can do NOTHING incorrect or wrong ever' and they suck, lol. link click is a great balance of yes, we messed up, but we move forward.

link click also is a solid example of "yeah, sometimes life is shit! you try your best! it doesn't always matter!!!" but not in a "so d/e" way but in a "even so, still try, still love, because knowing you can't control shouldn't instill fear but bravery"

LING IS A POSITIVE FEMALE CHARACTER THAT DOESNT CONSTANTLY HAVE TO SHIT ON MEN TO BE IN THE STORY --

death and grief handled in a realistic way tbh

the occasional laugh and smile and just the humor is pure

the tension and intrigue is the best written and portrayed i've seen and i'll die on this hill sorry

the concept of time travel is popular, but i haven't found anything to tackle the emotional / MORAL consequences like link click has. "SHOULD you change the past? IS IT OK to change the past?" we've all seen "oh no we changed the past we must fix it!!!" but I've never seen "the past, the present, and the future are heartbreaking and gut-wrenching and stunning and precious and beautiful as they are" but HUMAN NATURE remains and our desires continue to be to remove the heartbreak and pain. is that morally wrong or not?

ANYWAY this will prob be part 1 of more but please lmk what you think lol

[c-u-c-koo-4-40k]

Here's a funny kinda nostalgic post for commenting on.

In Husbandry Warhammer what media normally designed more for kids do Space Marines enjoy? (Aka what media are they latching onto because it is healing their traumatized inner child?)

I'm gonna go through some of my totally unbiased opinions. And if you're favorite legion isn't on here...

Comment it with your thoughts!

Thousand Sons - Take your damn pick there's so much magic based media but of course the Owl House is up there for recent examples.

...some of the Loyalist Thousands Sons do get a bit...existential when the plot line of the tyrannical Emperor Belos gets expanded upon.

Ironically despite its fictional nature Thousand Son or other psycher space marines use certain scenes in it almost like training videos for their offspring.

Ultramarines - You can't Tell me these guys wouldn't like Bob the Builder, and Thomas the Tank Engine. The main characters are Blue and so much of trains and building is logistics! And Cyberspace! Logistics is mostly math so Cyberspace is in there too.

Death Gaurd - Zoboomafo, the focus on flora and fauna is quite enjoyable for marines literally in tune with the cycle of life. Children's shows in general often use simpler language which is easier to understand or translate for Marines still coming to grasp with ancient terran languages. The similarly enjoy The Wild Thornberries

Nightlords - Goosebumps. They LOVE Goosebumps and 'Are you afraid of the Dark?' No I will not explain it.

Blood Angels - Art Attack! Never watched the show myself but Damn it looks fun! And perfect for craft inclined Blood Angels.

Alpha Legion - The animated Carmen Sandiego cartoon! Deception, mystery and most importantly disguises! What more could a hydra want? And Blue Clues...because.

Salamanders - Dragon Tails. Love watching it with their family or kids. The show has a big focus on family itself and giant lizards it's practically made for them! Would probably also like Dinosaur Train.

Emerperors Children - Steven Universe. The art, the music, the messy drama of the characters that makes them weep and the existential dread of being similarly tied to a parent or family that is...complicated.

They find a lot of comfort and catharsis in it.

Black Templars - Veggie Tales. Okay JK kinda they would like that just swap out God for God Emperor. Also...Winnie the Pooh.

Is it just because Pooh is Yellow like their gene father? That's not entirely it but they approve of the little yellow bear who isn't the brightest but he does his Best Okay!

I could also see them using it as another weird allegory for the God Emperor loving and protecting because in quite a few episodes of "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh," Christopher Robin shows up to help Pooh and Friends out of their predicaments.

Iron Warriors - Reboot! My sister loved this show as a kid, and given its focus on computers/a digital world I could see them enjoying it! Also they like Cyber Space because Math. And...Chip and Dale rescue rangers But! They like it specifically for the scenes with Gadget because she makes cool things and they also want to make cool things/find a way to make them work.

See a video on AstartikTok about an Iron Warrior making a remote controlled roller skate and putting the families pet rat on it.

The rat is unharmed and even seems to enjoy the ride.

Dark Angels - Redwall. God that series gave me Nightmares but it Was still technically a kids show....technically. Also Jane and the Dragon, they like the medical aesthetic.

Space Wolves - No I'm not saying paw patrol. Blue Clues and Bluey! But All the legions have Marines who like Bluey! There's hardly a demographic on this planet that doesn't have a legion of Bluey Fans!

Also the old Tarzan Disney animated series because it was actually pretty damn hot shit! And full of cool action scenes fighting giant frightening animals.

White Scars - My Little Pony Friendship is Magic. Yes because horses, and yes because it espouses the values of community and collaboration and it has a kicking soundtrack. And White Scars are one of the few legions who both accept psychers but also acknowledge their inherent danger. They have a big focus on meditation and not becoming lost to the power you wield and finding support in those around you. They appreciate the similar messaging in the show.

War Hounds and World Eaters - Lazy Town. Because all of them want to become as strong as Sportacus and be able to lift a fuckin pyramid with a grappling hook from an airship!

Please stop them, the Pyramids of Giza need to stay where they are. Don't let them cause an international incident.

Ravengaurd - Ruby Gloom. They enjoy the macabre atmosphere merged with the cheerful main character. Plus the music isn't half bad.

Some tags for ya'll if you wanna jump in! And don't hesitate to comment about legions already mentioned if you've got more ideas about shows they'd like.

@egrets-not-regrets @gallifreyianrosearkytiorsusan @bleedingichorhearts @barn-anon

@kit-williams @bispecsual @angronsjewelbeetle @virozero @sleepyfan-blog @passionofthesith

@beckyninja @felinisnoctis

[ilikekidsshows]

I get that alot of people go with the approach of "every Miraculous character is deeply screwed by the writers, so it's a writing problem" but at this point this feels like deflecting from the real problem

No shit stories and their characters are written by writers, but so many blogs I see now that go with that approach imo keep on dismissing the point of the problems people are pissed about because "well the characters aren't real, so I'm superior for saying it's the writers fault"

Guys, we KNOW they are fictional characters, you're not unique. But what is happening is that I get less and less out of the analysis posts from these blogs because they're beating around the damn bush especially when it comes to Marinette.

Yes, every character is screwed by the writing but Marinette has been retooled into the self-serving center of the universe who gets by though damn technicalities. This writing pattern is 2 disastrous seasons in, SHE IS THE PROBLEM.

You can try and sugarcoat that however you like by saying that Marinette is a fictional character so its the writers fault, but that doesn't change that Marinette's CHARACTER & WRITING is still the source of all the problems and that stories are being told to get emotional reactions. That's the entire purpose of a story.

No, I don't think people are doing it right by approaching all of Miraculous on a mere meta level. That's not how a story is supposed to be read. The meta level is an additional one on top of the emotional one, not the "rational way" to consume media.

And imo the analysis blogs I see around so much deliver less and less analysis posts I can do anything with. They are so caught up in explaining that the characters aren't to blame but the writers that they sideline why people are feeling the way they do.

There is this persistent dissonance in their posts about how apparently no amount of bad writing can change a character when that's just... objectively incorrect. Marinette for example is SUPPOSED to be compassionate and a thoughtful hero and partner/ leader to Cat Noir. Marinette in Canon though by this point is straight up NOT anymore.

But in their posts it's basically said that if people say that, then that makes them irrational because on a meta level the execution and effect of the writing is apparently irrelevant. Distant meta is king and the only rational way to engage with this story.

And I just don't see the point in that.

The outcome and the emotional effect of the writing is what actually matters. Not the intention behind it (no wonder people are using that excuse to defend Marinette's character. It's another variant of "but she MEANT well"). If Marinette is by now a toxic and even abusive partner and leader to be suck with, then that's the fucking damage the writing did. And said damage is DONE. That's her character NOW. Talk about the theory behind it however you like, the character CONCEPT is not Canon compliant anymore, and nothing is gonna change that besides facing the deeply rooted damage that has been done, analysing those on an EMOTIONAL level so you can then course correct the CANON character through the necessary development into becoming what the character was initially supposed to be.

Call me a dick, but just saying "the characters aren't real" is not a productive way of going about this dumpster fire anymore.

---

Another thing to take into account about the “it’s just bad writing” approach is that, like, it’s not like the way Marinette herself is being written has changed that much. What changed is how the narrative and other characters react to her and her behavior. Marinette has always been self-important, self-serving and self-obsessed, but these used to be treated as character flaws, signs of her immaturity and naivete she’d need to grow out of. Now we’re being told she’s flawless, actually, and has never done anything wrong ever and none of her mistakes were her fault. 

Like, I’ve recently been familiarizing myself more with the “my dear diary” teen drama genre, and it really is more of a dramedy genre if anything. Most of these series will have a self-important, self-serving and self-obsessed protagonist and the entire narrative is filtered through their self-centered world-view, because we’re basically reading their diary where they vent about things that annoy or excite them. Now comes the kicker: the “comedy” of the dramedy comes from how comically over the top these protagonists are when they clearly and obviously misrepresent their lives and themselves to the audience. Miraculous is leaning very heavily into this downright selfish protagonist archetype, but actually wants you to agree with the protagonist when you can see, with your own eyes, because this is a different medium, that the world isn’t nearly as unfair to our protagonist as she claims.

Here’s another kicker: if you aren’t laughing at the joke or projecting yourself onto the protagonist, you’re most likely gonna hate the protagonist of most “my dear diary” books. They tend to be the most opinion-splitting characters in their own fandoms, with readers either loving them or outright despising them.

Dismissing these kinds of fandom reactions only when they veer into the negative direction showcases the real motivation of the “it’s all just the writing” crowd. I need to dissociate from the show’s story in order to discuss why Marinette is still so beloved by the fandom, because I just can’t feel that way about her anymore. Similarly, the people dissociating from the story in order to explain why fans are disappointed and outraged by the story, can’t see anything worth getting upset about in the show. They think it’s all okay. They’re not approaching the show purely logically, they are still emotionally invested, they still like the show. Of course the seemingly logical approach to fandom unrest seems to just be defending Marinette and the show, because it is.

It’s basically a way to retreat from the criticism. Like, the accusations of Marinette being a stalker used to be easily sidelined with “it’s just a joke you don’t like” until they made it a sign of canonical mental instability. It was a way to say: "this is a silly thing to be upset about". Now we’re sidelining the abuse apologia with “it’s just bad writing, that’s not what Marinette’s character is”. What these people are actually saying is: “she’s made up, so my made up version of Marinette in my head didn’t do that.” Like, when you have to deny canon exists, your analysis isn’t analysis anymore; it’s headcanons at the very least, completely made up at most.

[skaruresonic]

The common rebuttal to "this reads like fanfic (derogatory)" is "read better fanfic," which is true in certain cases, but on the other hand, there is some grain of truth to the idea that you can tell when someone's primary mode of literary analysis is fanfic instead of... well... literally anything else. It's okay to like or even prefer fanfic, but if you want to take your craft seriously you also need to read books, dude. Published books will teach you a lot of stuff fanfic doesn't, like proper dialogue formatting and how to introduce your reader to unfamiliar characters. Even the crappiest book (well, if it's not After or 50 Shades, which started off as fanfic to begin with lol) will have been subjected to some sort of editing process to ensure at least the appearance of proper grammar. That's not a guarantee with your average fanfic, and hence why you can't always take all your writing cues from fanfic because it's "so much better" than commercially published original fiction or whatever. Frankly, fic writers tend to peddle some absolutist and downright bad takes sometimes. "Said is dead" is a terrible rule, though not because said is invisible and a perfectly serviceable tag; that's just part of it. Dialogue tags are a garnish, not a main dish that can be swapped out for more ostentatious words. If your characters murmur and mutter instead of simply saying stuff, your readers are going to wonder why nobody speaks up. "'I'm explaining some very plot-important shit right now lol,' she elaborated," likewise, is a form of telling. Instead of letting the reader extrapolate that "she elaborated" via the contents of the dialogue itself, you're telling them what to think about it. And that's why it's distracting: your authorial hand is showing. Writing is an act of camouflage. You, as the writer, need to make your presence as invisible as possible so as to not intrude on the reader's suspension of disbelief. That's the driving reason behind "show, don't tell." And overall, everyone could stand to cut down on the frequency of their dialogue tags anyway. Not every exchange needs "he said" or "she whispered" attached as long as you establish who is doing the talking before the exchange. Some people will complain of confusion if you go on for too long without a dialogue tag, and that definitely is a risk, but at some point you also need to resist the temptation of holding the reader's hand. If they can't follow a conversation between two people, chances are they weren't meeting you halfway and paying that much attention in the first place. In fact, you don't even necessarily need action beats in between every piece of dialogue, as Tumblr writing advice posts will often suggest as a fix. Pruning things often cleans them up just fine.

Another fanfic-influenced trend in writing is, I guess, beige prose? A heavy focus on internal narration with lots of telling. It's not a style I can concretely describe, but every time I click on a non-mutual's writing, I feel like it always has, like. This "samey" voice to it. There's no real attempt to experiment and use unique or provocative language, or even imagery half the time. It's almost a dry recital of narration that doesn't leave much room for subtext. I see this style most often in fanfic where you can meander and wax poetic about how the characters feel without ever really getting around to the plot. And it's like. DO something.

Other tells that the author is taking their cues from fanfic mores rather than books: >>too much minute description of eyes, especially their color and their movement >>doesn't leave much room for subtext (has a character speak their every thought aloud instead of letting the reader infer what they're thinking via action or implication) >>too much stage action ("X looked at Y. Y moved to push their seat in. X took a deep breath and stepped toward Y with a determined look on his face. 'We need to talk,' he said.") >>tells instead of shows, even when the example is about showing instead of telling ("he clenched his teeth in agony" instead of just "he clenched his teeth") >>has improper dialogue tag formatting, especially with putting full stops where there should be commas ("'Lol and lmao.' she said" instead of "'Lol and lmao,' she said." This one drives me up a wall) >>uses too many dialogue tags >>"em dashes, semi-colons and commas, my beloved" - I get the appeal but full stops are your friends. Too much alternate punctuation makes your writing seem stilted and choppy. >>"he's all tousled brown hair and hard muscle" and "she's all smiles and long legs." This turn of phrase is so cliche, it drives me up a wall. Find less trite ways of describing your characters pls. >>"X released a breath he didn't know he'd been holding" >>every fucking Hot Guy ever is described as lean and sinewy >>sobbing. why is everyone sobbing. some restraint, pls >>Tumblr in general tends to think a truism counts as good writing if you make the most melodramatic statement possible (bonus: if it's written in a faux-archaic way), garnish it with a hint of egotism, and toss in allusions to the Christian God, afterlife, or death. ("I will stare God in the face and walk backwards into hell," "What is a god to a nonbeliever?") It's indicative of emotional immaturity imo, that every emotional truth need be expressed That Intensely in order to resonate with people. >>pushes the "Oh." moment as the pinnacle of Romantic Epiphany >>Therapy Speak dialogue. why is this emotionally constipated forty-something man who drinks himself stupid every morning to escape gruesome war memories speaking about his trauma like a clinical psychologist >>"this well-established kuudere should Show More Emoshun. I want him to break down crying on his love interest's shoulder from all his repressed trauma" - I am begging u. stop >>"why don't the characters just talk to each other?" "why can't we have healthy relationships?" I don't know, maybe because fiction is not supposed to be a model for reality and perfect communication makes for boring drama?

>>improperly using actions as dialogue tags ("'Looks like we're going hunting,' he grinned") >>why is everyone muttering and murmuring. speak up >>too many adverbs, especially "weakly" and "shakily." use stronger verbs. ("trembled" instead of "shook weakly") >>too many epithets ("the younger man" or "the brunette detective") >>too many filter words ("he felt," "she thought," "I remembered")

>>no, Tumblr, first-person POV is not the devil; you're just using way too many filter words (see above) and not enough sentence variation to make it flow well enough. First-person POV is an actually pretty good POV (not just for unreliable and self-aware narrators) if you know what you're doing and a lot of fun crafting an engaging character voice. Tumblr's hatred of first-person baffles me, and all I can think is you would only hate it if your only frame of reference was, like, My Immortal. Have you tried reading A Book? First-person POV is just another tool in your toolbox, and like all tools, it can be used properly or improperly. But it's not inherently a marker of bad writing. The disdain surrounding it strikes me as about as sensical as making fun of the concept of characters. Oh, your work has characters in it? Ew, I automatically click off a fic if it has characters in it. like what.

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[7weaslesinacoat]

i keep seeing this and i saw another post saying something similar but it genuinely icks me so much when i see something like-

“insert character is actually a horrible person!” or “insert character is actually a good person!”

especially in comics, because first off-

these are fictional characters, i know we all love them- but they’re just placeholders with a name and personality that we tell made up stories about. they can’t be a piece of shit, because they aren’t anything, so don’t get so worked up.

second off when they DO come across that way, especially if the character is a protagonist or a “good guy”-

and then in one specific story or one timeline there is a dickhead version of them (batman is a great example, nightwing, talia al ghul- it happens so much in comics chat 😭) then i see so many fans or members of the community jump on the hate train for not just that characterization, but the character as a whole.

this also happens when said characters are given flaws to make them more realistic, talia al ghul is a huge victim of this (and usually MORE SO than most dc characters because she is subconsciously profiled all the time).

anywho, i see all these people dogpiling on a character even though 90% of the time that characterization is just a choice by the writer.

comic writers aren’t looking at protagonists and long standing characters and deciding “yeah they’ve actually been racist this whole time”, no, a couple writer made a stupid decision that got published. and the great thing about comics is that not everything you have to imagine as canon! not every iteration of batman is the batman that you love! and that’s ok, that doesn’t make a character bad.

and it definitely doesn’t excuse hating on fans of that character because your canon of that character doesn’t fit another’s.

(i feel like what we should be doing when discussing characterization is be aware that it is all taking place in comic books- like “oh my god i hate all star batman” or “in canon deathstrokes done some weird shit” instead of saying “i hate batman.” “deathstroke is a pedo”—even though he kinda is—

because what about media where he’s an anti hero? and what about the millions of media where batman’s *not* a dick? if your evidence for your claim is specific, make a claim about the specific evidence, and not the masses of unrelated data)

[unforth]

i don't know if you are still into 2ha? but what would you say if someone asked you what makes 2ha stand out? It's full of tropes that have been done before and there is nothing new. it's full of cliches according to some people. So, what makes it stand out?

I am still into 2ha, I'd consider it one of my top fandoms right now.

I'll own I find this whole ask rather odd? It implies that novelty is a. possible and b. what I'm looking for in a book.

For a... Name me a book that isn't full or tropes, name me a book that isn't full of "nothing new," name me a book that isn't full of cliches. Enjoyable books aren't ~original~, and imo original is a myth. It's about how the ideas are strung together, not about them being fresh and different and new.

For b... look. I'm almost 42 years old. I've been reading a ton since I was 8. I've read a l.o.t. over the years. And I've come to learn the things I love in characters and books.

Give me a main character (or, in 2ha, BOTH main characters) who thinks they're worthless and will give everything they have to save an innocent stranger. Give me archetypes of self-sacrifice and martyrdom and low self-esteem and adoration and obsession cooked so deep into their bones that it extends over multiple life times. Give me that adoration reciprocated but the pining, oh, it is mutual for these idiots who should be and will be lovers. I'll eat that up every time. Give me someone who thinks they're unlovable but loves the world anyway, and give me someone who loves them so much they'll tolerate the claws.

Give me epic length I can sink my teeth into. Make the plot sprawling, the side characters lush, the world developed. It's okay if some parts drag a little, it's hard to keep momentum over an epic, and one person's "that dragged" is another's "that rocked." Anyway, the slow bits makes the more exciting parts that much more thrilling.

Give me whump, and hurt/comfort, and pain that burns the soul. Make the characters deep and compelling and then confront them with nothing but bad choices, force them to pick... and then see them pick each other, everytime, even in the midst of the darkest night imaginable. Give me unreliable narrators and angst and characters with nobility that shines like the sun even when they're covered in shit.

I adored this kind of story when I was 12 and I started the Wheel of Time and fell in love with Rand al'Thor, and I adore this kind of story now, in Tian Guan Ci Fu and The Husky and His White Cat Shizun and Modu. The patterns in the kinds of books I enjoy most, the ones that make me feral and obsessed, are very consistent, and being Old means I know what those patterns are and I can seek out books that have them, and recognize them when I find them again. It's happening with the book I'm reading now, in fact, and I can feel the feral obsession growling in delight in my brain, lmao.

Ya know how some people go into fanfiction because they love a character and want to see iterations of them over and over a little to the left? Well, that's why I started fanfic, and through fic I found a genre of original fiction that does that for me. I want similar character archetypes in endless iterations of stories, and danmei gives that to me, and that's why I'm up to my nose in danmei fandoms, and why the specific ones I like best are my favorites.

What stands out about 2ha, for me, is that it fits my taste in character archetypes and plot type. If someone out there shares that taste, they'll probably also love it. If they don't share that taste, they may not, but they may, because it's a complex enough book to cater to more than just one specific type of taste. Someone who likes OP control fantasies will also probably like it, for example. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, and that's not a bad thing. Stories that appeal to everyone tend to be shallow and not attract deep obsession, having sacrificed the depth to draw a wider audience.

Anyway, anon...you phrased this like an anti. 80% of your ask is trashing the book on false premises about tropes and cliches. I genuinely can't tell if this is meant as a troll or if it's sincere, but I've answered as if it's sincere. But regardless, you'll be a lot happier as a reader if you forget originality. Books aren't original. Find an author, genre, series, whatever, that fits your taste, and frolic there. That's the route to happy reading.

I've found mine. I hope you find yours.

[pruneunfair]

My feelings on: part 8, Tears on a withered flower: the most annoying fandom to date so far.

I ask if this one was really that great since I've been seeing it all over the place on tiktok and Instagram and reading it myself, I can see why it would garner an audience because it's another "working woman finds a better man after her loser ex cheats on her with a stupid damsel girl" type story. It's kinda good but in my opinion: it's not THAT good but there is only 23 chapters I read so far so I'll let it marinate before I actually start going after it for the plot.

What I really wanna talk about is the fanbase of tears on a withered flower because while the manhwa community does have a problem with internalized misogyny this specific fanbase takes the cake.

I don't like saying the term "glazing" but it's the only way to accurately describe the way they treat the FL Na Haesoo because they are absolutely feral. First off, I've seen them lose their shit over other fans simply saying "I think that this female character has a prettier design then Hae soo." And these stans reply with the most immature and even down right laughable comebacks. I took some screenshot of a tears of the wither flower slide show to give you an idea.

"Hae soon is the main character for a reason."

Who's gonna tell them that protagonists can be written poorly?

Trust me, I'm sure no one's jealous of a fictional character.

Okay the context basically was that Hae soos coworker was just being real with her based on what she knows about Hae soos life and apparently fans took that as her being jealous and when people who actually read the god damn plot and use their critical thinking to point this out, the stans basically go "nuh uh" and continue to scream even louder. Personally when I read that chapter i took it as brutal honesty, from her perspective Tae Ha was hitting on a married woman and the two barely knew eachother. A little harsh but she's not jealous of Hae soo 😭 like we barely know this girl!

I think the most complained about aspect of tears on a withered flower is the anatomy, specifically the anatomy of all the characters your supposed to really like/care about.

I don't mind that Hae Soo is built like that cause while her anatomy definitely is unrealistic it's also a cartoon comic and cartoons have lots of bizarre forms of anatomy that don't always need to be accurate. With that said I don't find it a coincidence that the FL who is the most fleshed out and only grown woman who isn't meant to be disliked or made fun of is a tsunade cup sized babe with big thighs, a tiny waist, a nice butt, and a baby face.

Yeah I'll say it: Hae soo is another example of authors wanting to make a non conventionally attractive woman since she's supposed to be older (like 33) who is also overworked so she doesn't take care of herself but in the end they didn't have the balls to actually go through with it so they not only gave Hae soo an amazing figure and hair but they also gave her a clear face, tiny lips and barely noticeable eye bags which I still can't tell if they're even eye bags or just her eyelashes.

When anyone even dares to point out that Hae Soo's design is weirdly propionate compared to the other female characters you get hid with the "Your just jealous that you can't have a man like Tae Ha!!"

look i don't mind disproportionate anatomy in cartoon comics but if you give me character designs with more accurate proportions, I'm going to choose the latter for prettier looking designs.

Another thing about this manhwa was the dialog. I like it at times because it can be so poetic.. and then they just throw in some comically evil sentences for the villains that most sane people would not make the public aware of in a modern day setting. It's not something that really annoys me I just thought it was fun to laugh at every now and again while reading.

conclusion: I think the best way to describe tears on a withered flowers fanbase is kinda like how Netflix treats Bigmouth. No, TOTWF is definitely no where near levels of uncomfortable as Bigmouth but it's in the way that it really isn't as good as everyone claims, it's okay at first and then it got old and some people started opening up that the thought Bigmouth was garbage only for a bunch of stans to barge in with "You just don't get it!!" People won't let it go, they keep insisting it's the best piece of work to exist and anyone who doesn't like it is a jealous loser.

[austinramsaygames]

Thinking about Actual Play series and how there are 4 parts that IMO determine if people will want to listen to it.

1. High Concept: this is what the show is about narratively. Setting, plot, characters, themes, all the stuff you'd find in written fiction.

2. Performance: how compelling are the actors involved in the show? Are there suitably funny voices? Do they all have good chemistry? Is there buy in to the High Concept? And so on.

3. Production Quality: Bad mics and poor volume balancing between players can easily take some listeners out of the story. Some of this can be fixed in post, but it's always better to start with the best raw audio you can. That's the baseline stuff but some shows also add music (whether as theme songs or for ambience) and sound effects.

4. The Rules: the most unique part of Actual Play as a format. What rule system are the performers using to inform their performances? The rules place limits on how well the High Concept functions. If you try to tell a story where all the characters are super heroes but you're using Delta Green, there's going to be some friction (which of course could be the basis of the High Concept but absolutely needs to be accounted for).

Different listeners will have different priorities for each of these, and even within them. Really liking one of these aspects within a show may allow a less enjoyable one to get a pass.

For example The Adventure Zone's Balance season is something I listened to every week. I do not give a single shit about D&D actual play and am pretty ambivalent on the High Concept but the audio quality is great and the performances are stellar.

Another example: Friends At The Table's Autumn In Hieron has frequently bad audio quality but the great High Concept of the two diverging parties and the setting, combined with the good performances makes it stand out. Also doesn't hurt that I was interested in Dungeon World.

I don't think I'm saying anything groundbreaking here, but it may be useful for those interested in actual play, fans AND creators, to consider when starting a new show.

More thoughts like this from me on my Patreon! Patrons get early access to my game design work and thoughts. Just $1 a month!

[jaychrilo1144]

Y'all we gotta talk.

Just because someone says "hot take" when talking about fictional characters, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE SAYING ITS OFFICIALLY CANON!! ITS THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THE CHARACTER!!! If you dont like it, then look at stuff you do like.

I dont like overly soft Remus. I dont. ATYD is probably one of my fav interpretations of him. I dont like prongsfoot or moonwater. I love rockstar sirius. I like slutty sirius. I dont like forgotten younger Peter. I dont know how to feel about Jegulus, but im not opposed to Jegulily. I could go on. I like what I like or dont, and everyone feels the same, and the world keeps spinning.

I hate seeing someone say hot take and then getting SHIT on like crazy.

Heres what I think. As long as the CORE of the character is kept, then the interpretations of said character are free grounds.

For example. Sirius black is a rebel at heart and always has been. He hates tradition in any shape or form. That is core to his character. If someone wants to interpret that as sirius liking makeup, sirius as a rockstar, sirius as a manwhore, nonbinary sirius, THEN WHATEVER!!

Another example is that James Potter is fiercly loyal and is kinda a prick at times. Cool! So if someone wants to write him as a frat boy, it makes sense.

Remus has an aura of mystery and seems to always have secrets. Whether thats him being a werewolf, being gay, bi, disabled, running an underground business, or harboring other secrets, cool. Ur still playing along within the character.

If you dont like it, find the things you do like and move on. You're not going to agree with everyone, and not everyone is gonna agree with you. I think wolfstar should always be canon no matter what, but others dont agree and thats fine, we dont have to.

Look, I get it, I love and obsess these characters just as much as the next, trust me. But at the end of the day, We are talking about fictional characters. Let people creatively express themselves and enjoy the world of fiction.

Thank you 💛

[spacerockfloater]

Yet another example of Team Black ass lickers playing victim

I’d really appreciate it if y’all could take some time out of your day and check this blogger out for this particular post they made about me.

I already replied but I felt the need to make a post of my own because they are out of their fucking mind!

This cockroach came into my post and called me a sick fuck for saying that Aemond taking revenge on Lucerys is not equal to Daemon ordering the execution of an infant in its crib, the latter being obviously way more unethical, and they absolutely lost their shit when I paid them back with the same coin. Like, the fuck did you think was going to happen?

Hey skank @mikasaerens , is this you?

Not only does your psychotic self come into my post and instead of sharing your opinion in a polite and civil manner, you choose to verbally assault me by calling me a “sick fuck who needs to be put into an asylum and a watchlist” over my opinion on a fictional character, but your lying ass has the audacity to paint me as the villain when I come swinging at you for being an offensive little twat? And claiming that you are the victim for sharing your opinion about said character?

Who the fuck are you trying to fool? Look at the rest of your replies, lunatic:

Own the shit you say. This all happened because of the language you used against me unprovoked, not because you shared an opinion! This all starts with you. You absolutely deserve every fucking thing I said about you. Crying “wolf” when you initiated this shitshow by having no manners is batshit insane behaviour. But I shouldn’t be surprised though, you are a Lucerys apologist after all. Sickening!

Try reaching out to public mental health facilities if you can because starting a fight and then thinking you and your friends are gonna make me feel bad for defending myself must be a whole new level of mass hysteria. I walk the talk, dickhead. Can’t say the same about you.

Tell your meatriders that have blocked me because they don’t have the balls to say whatever they want face to face I said hi! I’m always keeping it real. I’ll say whatever the fuck I want with my full chest. And it’s always somehow you lowlifes jumping into my posts, sending anon hate and being vile as shit, because never once in my life have I bothered to reply to you losers’ opinions or reach out to you! Seek help!

It’s such a fucking shame because I know plenty of Team Black fans that don’t act in the disgusting way you do, insect.

[physalian]

There are ways to do retcons properly

Nothing incenses an audience quite like a retcon, more so if it’s one done deliberately and not by the writer simply forgetting or not knowing that they’re retconning in the first place. Beyond just being the man behind the curtain going “uhhh you didn’t see that last bit, just trust me, this is the new canon” reading as lazy and breaking the immersion, it’s seen as at best, uncreative and at worst, actively dismissive and disrespectful of the canon that came before, especially if this isn’t the original writer.

There’s hundreds of examples of terrible retcons, most recently in the litany of reboots and live action remakes.

But if you’re a solo author and you realize you’ve made a mistake that you must retcon in order to tell the grander story effectively, here’s some suggestions for how to handle that.

—

Have a character say they made a mistake, and make this mistake have lasting consequences

Mistakes are human. Characters simply “making a mistake” in fiction tends to go over poorly because it’s not a satisfying or meaningful direction for the story to take. Unless this is heavily foreshadowed or the character is deliberately set up for failure and the audience knows this, or the character chronically makes these kinds of mistakes, it feels like the hand of the author giving a diabolus ex machina—outside of the control or autonomy of any of the characters, suddenly they are wrong because the author says so.

So if you haven’t done the prep work for this big mistake, because you didn’t realize it would be one until it’s too late to change it, you can have this mistake fundamentally change the character. That way the retcon becomes more than the author patching holes, it’s now part of this character’s growth.

Have the characters be misinformed by a bad actor or propaganda

Like above, having a character out of nowhere go “eh, I lied” to patch your plot hole is weak, if it comes out of nowhere for them and never shows up as something they would do again.

However, if your cast lives in a world where multiple sides are prone to making shit up about each other (as all sides are in every conflict), you can take a piece of wrong information and bake it into the plot as part of a deeper conspiracy. Or simply a loss of trust in the original source of the information, or a change of worldview about how they won’t be duped again.

—

Whatever the case, making a retcon work might demand changing your original plan to incorporate how these characters approach the new laws and lore of their world now thrust upon them. They might be frustrated, wary, confused, upset, distraught, or devastated depending on the severity of the retcon. It should mean something fundamentally to them that what they previously thought is now wrong.

You don’t have to turn it into this big thing if it’s a minor retcon, like, somebody’s eyes now have to change colors. Leaning too far into a long explanation wraps back around to being convoluted. Sometimes it really is just better to say nothing and not call attention to it (but if it is that minor, why are you retconning in the first place?).

If I’m writing a contemporary romance series and between books Mr. Tall Dark and Handsome had blue eyes but now I really want them to be brown because I just like brown eyes…that ship has sailed? Write another book for your brown-eyed beau.

If I’m writing a fantasy story and Mr. Tall Dark and Handsome absolutely must have brown eyes because eye color is crucial to bloodlines and majorly important to his character and arc, and I accidentally gave him blue before fully realizing my lore, I now have to figure out, within the reality of the world I built, how to fix this error.

Maybe that means he has to be adopted, or some nefarious magician changed his eye color as an infant to protect him in some grand conspiracy, or the actual lore behind magical eyes is one big lie to support fantasy eugenics. How much you focus on changing the retcon should be proportional to how important this retconned detail is to the story, and how realistic this new explanation would be.

If I say magicians dyed this boy’s eyes… I gotta already have established that there exists magicians who could potentially do this.

Hand-waving critical things away, or giving a BS excuse so we can quickly move on, or insulting the audience for believing this is how the world works as you’ve told it to them and trying to spin yourself as oh so clever isn’t going to end well for you.

But also… if you act with some humility and admit you just forgot, audiences are likely to be more forgiving than if you do contrive some long-winded explanation and act like it was your plan all along.

There’s a balance, and it’s highly situational.

Hope this helps?

[imhidingonceagain]

Slimeriana and QSMP fans, we need to talk (really, I'm going to talk about a few things).

CW: nsfw

Warning: long post.

At this point I think majority of you guys know what happened with Mariana yesterday (especially because the fliporiana community is small compared to other ones).

I'm gonna write some stuff Mariana said and I'm gonna be explicit about it because I want you guys to understand the severity of the situation (this is your warning):

Context: He was curious to see if people actually posted nsfw stuff about him (and poor boy, he really thought he wouldn't find any).

And I quote what he said after seeing some posts: "No, no, no! Why's Slime penetrating me?!" (He was probably looking at a fanart)

"I'm not doing role like that with Slime anymore. I thought you guys found it funny (he was talking about the sex role in the QSMP) but it only fills your minds with shit"

"I'm gonna say it in English because I know there's QSMP fans who do it as well: Don't draw hentai about me, don't draw us fucking, that's being a pervert, that's wrong"

Some months ago I wrote a post when we got the first warning in regards of this topic.

Mariana and Slime have talked about fanart before and at the time they didn't seem uncomfortable about it (though it seems like Charlie's girlfriend was).

So I wrote: it's not necessary to stop doing fanart about them. Just be careful with what you draw and where you post it.

To me even "suggestive" fanarts are "okay" (but with suggestive I mean the characters looking at each other like they want to kiss each other so bad, that's it). But when and how did that translate to some of you thinking that drawing real people having sex and not only having sex (because there's always ways to show intercourse without being explicit or disgusting) but also showing private parts is okay?

Because it's obvious Mariana saw something super explicit by the way he reacted (because he doesn't get bothered too easily). My poor man was distressed!

And let me tell you something. This is not only about Mariana and Slimecicle. This is a REAL PROBLEM within the fandom. Let me give you some examples:

I love reading fanfiction and months ago I was scrolling through the QSMP section on AO3 and let me tell you something: the amount of fanfiction written about the eggs and their parents in a non platonic way is CONCERNING.

Especially Wilbur Soot's fandom seems to have a lot of rotten apples who think that writing abusive stories about q! Wilbur and Tallulah is fine.

I understand some people write stories like that not because they're crime apologists, but because that's their way to deal with trauma (and dealing with trauma through art is okay). But PLEASE remember that while the eggs are fictional, their "parents" are REAL people.

Use fictional characters, please. Stop writing real people into pedophilic or highly abusive situations. THAT'S HORRENDOUS.

Another example is the following: Some weeks ago people were reporting a Twitter account and I clicked on the account (I personally don't like reporting people without making sure they deserved) and it took me like three seconds of scrolling to see more than 5 Ccs being disrespected (including Slimecicle, Quackity, Cellbit, Roier and Badboyhalo). Explicit Pictures, videos and fanarts were being posted about these creators.

You know what I think? I think Cellbit made his character asexual not only for the representation (it's clear by now that q! Cellbit is a sex positive asexual which is still representation yay!) But because he has been on the internet since around 2011 and he knows how disrespectful people can be. I think he knew that his and Roier's ship was getting too popular and that makes them both unprotected to shit like this.

Sadly, it's clear that it didn't matter that Cellbit made his character asexual, people can't seem to respect that detail about his character and about himself as a real person.

To some people it doesn't matter if the Cc is ambiguous or completely clear about their boundaries, they still don't give a fuck.

Please remember that behind each character is a real person. I understand sometimes you guys want to see your favorite characters fuck -me too, honestly- but for people like streamers that's out of the questions because not only they're real people, but because their work is related to social media and the possibilities of them finding EVERYTHING we write and post about them are super high.

I don't know how to feel. It's obvious that Mariana has not been feeling the same about the server since Juanaflippa died. Maybe this will make him feel even worse about the QSMP but I hope I'm wrong.

[ilthit]

Alternatives to Dungeons & Dragons (2024) now that they are going all-in on gacha:

Dungeons & Dragons 5e (previous) + any number of compatible indie produced modules (Obvious Mimic Press is the one I've played)

Pathfinder 2e (basically the same game, tons of adventure available)

DC20 (if you like rules improvements; not a lot of modules available yet)

Shadowdark (if you want to party like it's 1979)

Obviously Daggerheart if you're a Critical Role fan; the setting is familiar and rules easy and you can play a mushroom (or their version of tiefling, dragonborn, etc)

Literally any older version of Dungeons & Dragons that still has playable adventures out there.

Have you REALLY played all the existing DnD campaigns and modules yet? Until you have, you don't need to buy new ones.

Roll20.net has automatic DnD character sheets so you can cancel that DnDBeyond subscription if you use it just for that. It has also recently bought up Demiplane, another similar platform, which is prettier and has many of the games mentioned here.

If you want to get more adventurous with rules and setting but still like fantasy combat and skill lists, there's Runequest (bronze age fantasy for you ancient Mesopotamia nerds), which I have been reading recently.

Other genres:

Pathfinder is working on an update on Starfinder, so you can play DnD-like rules for a space adventure.

Teatime Adventures is aD20 rules game for a cozy rural furry stories about pies and being kind to each other.

Call of Cthulhu for horror (check out Chaosium Inc's Youtube channel for actual plays, love those guys) and Pulp Cthulhu for extra cheese on top; there's even Regency Cthulhu if you want to try balancing a monster hunt with a husband hunt.

This is a deep cut but A Ghastly Affair is a game set in the long 1700s and the character classes are stereotypes of gothic romance fiction, and I know I have followers who are into that shit, available on DriveThruRPG (I can't find their original website anymore so get it while you can).

I have to mention Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades, a wuxia roleplaying game from Osprey Publishing, considering @minutia-r and I have written 480K of adventuring for it.

Also I must mention Vampire: The Masquerade, which is the game that got me to take on gamemastering for the first time. The Storyteller System they use is still my favourite TTRPG system. Very gritty modern supernatural setting, and the Core Rulebook even has a caveat saying "yeah there's problematic stuff, because problematic stuff is part of the real world, fuck the Nazis though" (paraphrased). Caveat, the Core Rulebook is kind of unintuitive.

All of the above are games that have rules with skill lists and kind of the same logical approach to playing as DnD (broadly speaking).

I would not go directly from DnD to Powered by the Apocalypse games like Candela Obscura, Girl by Moonlight, or Blades in the Dark, because their logic is very different and they are less about rules and more about genre; or rather, the rules define things that the above games leave to role-playing, and very little for anything else.

For example, in Candela Obscura you would do the same roll for punching a person and breaking through a door, and in Girl by Moonlight you have to roll to confess your true feelings. Girl by Moonlight is absolutely perfect for playing a magical girl TV show though. That's what it's for.