#marinette dupain cheng critical

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[clemnoir]

the new ladyblog merch is … polarizing

[unfortunately-a-miraculous-fan]

Chloe's sudden shift in character because Thomas realized they were making her a little too redeemable is SO funny to me. Like:

Season 1: Chloe is a regular, one-dimensional high school bully.

Season 2: Chloe is actually a bit more of a complex person than that, because nobody is pure evil. But she's still definitely an asshole.

Season 3: Chloe is a child who was neglected by her mother and spoiled by her father, making her into the brat she is today. Marinette as Ladybug shows Chloe a bit of kindness that she might not have fully deserved, and Chloe takes those words to heart, working to be a bit better over time. Progress is slow, but not impossible.

Season 4: Chloe is a cartoonishly evil villain who never gave even half a shit about anybody.

Season 5: Chloe just about ruined Marinette's entire life years before the show even started, and is the reason that Marinette stalks Adrien (See? It wasn't creepy after all. Stalking is justified sometimes!). Just trust me, this was definitely the plan from the very beginning.

[nixthelapin]

Anyone else think Marinette’s new outfit is just really bad?

I can’t claim to have that great of an eye for fashion, but this just looks like a tacky performer costume to me- the tights, the jacket looking like a fake tux, right down to the tiny bow tie that’s just sitting on her shirt- rather than an outfit an actual person would wear, especially someone who’s biggest dream is to be a fashion designer. And I don’t really think the pink of her shorts go well with the brown-gray leggings, the colors just feel off to me.

I want to like it, I think it has aspects I enjoy, but overall it just doesn’t do it for me and I kinda hate it.

Idk am I going crazy here? I haven’t seen a ton of discussion about her new design, so it’s hard to say what the general opinion is, but even if the stuff I have seen, it’s usually excitement for it, nothing really negative (design-wise, not about the narrative or overall direction of the show lol). But I’d really like to hear what others think about it.

[red-balloon12]

I will never stop thinking about how Zoe has a crush on Marinette but she’s also supposed to be Chloe’s replacement.

I don’t think this just meant as the bee holder. I think this meant for a lot of things.

Being Andre’s new daughter, being the star for that movie.

The only thing Zoe hasn’t completely replaced Chloe in is being Adrien’s childhood bf.

So….with all of this being said…

DOES THIS IMPLY THAT CHLOE ACTUALLY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CRUSH ON MARINETTE AND IF CHLOE GOT HER REDEMPTION, WE COULD HAVE SEEN A CONFESSION FROM HER??? I-

This means that Thomas knew about the popular headcanon that Chloe was sapphic and was secretly in love with Marinette/Ladybug. HE TOOK THAT ISH AWAY FROM CHLOE AND GAVE IT TO ZOE-

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Due to the show decided to give Marinette the most red flag similarities with Gabriel while never addressing them as bad things, combined with how she now knows she can easily take away Adrien's autonomy at a moment's notice, I'm very concerned on what would happen if Adrien ever wants to break up with her while she doesn't.

Bold of you to assume Marinette didn't give a secret order preventing him from trying to break up with her unless she gets tired of him.

...

God, I'm awful.

[eddo-tensei]

This will never not make me laugh

In case you don't know what this is, this is all the sightings of Socqueline Wang in Season 5. Aside from her debut, she only had like two cameos before her big moment in Derision's flashback where she turned out to be this super important figure in Marinette's life...and then she just disappears from the season altogether after the flashback is over. Right after we find out how she got suspended, she just stops showing up for the rest of the season. She doesn't even appear in the present of the same episode or even cameo in the background in episodes afterwards. She's just gone. It's like after they showed her getting suspended and this epic farewell scene between her and Marinette where she rips off the Majesta speech from Alya (Because why not steal one more thing from Alya?), they just treat it as though she isn't in Paris anymore even though we saw her two episodes ago still helping her friends. All this does is serve to prove that Socqueline's entire character is just to provide tragedy for Marinette's backstory and nothing else. I can't even say this is salt for Socqueline because this feels like the writers throwing her out as soon as she apparently fulfilled her purpose in showing Marinette having a big sad because of mean old Chloe. She doesn't even appear in the background of Revolution in protest of Chloe, which you think she would considering how much she hated Chloe. It's an instance of them just creating a disposable character purely just to prove a point and instead of keeping her in the cast, they just throw her into the bin because she doesn't serve a purpose anymore. More people hate Chloe now and that's all that matters to the writers. Screw actually developing this character who's supposedly a great figure in one of our main character's lives. As far as the writers are concerned, she already fulfilled her purpose in the narrative and that's infuriating to me because of how utterly manipulative it all comes across as.

Is this irrational? Am I too upset at the treatment of what's basically a minor character in this show? You be the judge.

[a-flaming-idiot]

My argument for why Marinette should be taller than Adrien and Astruc is a coward!

Marinette being taller just fits her vibe. Like she's meant to be a weird, awkward, clumsy girl. So her being tall and a bit lanky and awkward-looking would fit.

Marinette being tall would make her look a bit more like her parents. She has her mother's general body proportions but has suddenly gained a lot more height like her father.

Another thing for Mari to be bullied for. Middle to Early-High School kids are ruthless and would 100% bully Marinette and ostracize her for being taller than average. At least season 1 and before Chloe would.

Having Marinette bulk up and fill out a bit as Ladybug would both give her a bit more of a disguise, but also make her more imposing as a superhero.

Astruc makes a big thing of female empowerment in this show, so subverting the trope of a small girl and larger boy is a good way to do that.

The target audience of middle school kids, especially girls, will be hitting early puberty and probably getting growth spurts of their own. Which tends to make some girls become notably taller than their peers, even the boys around them. So showing your MC as someone who looks like these girls and showing that Marinette is still lovable and admirable not in spite of her body but because of it, along with very clearly showing being bullied for your body is not right is a good message to send to these kids.

Adrien being smaller than average both makes him less of a typical protagonist, and also can be a subtle reference to the real-life issue of child stars being forcefully underfed to keep the same consistent youthful look even as puberty hits. So even if they don't wanna call it out, it would just be an interesting touch and make Gabriel seem all the more evil.

Chat Noir being the tiny acrobat with Ladybug as the larger and stronger fighter is also similarly subverting tropes and just makes them more distinct rather than them both fighting very similarly besides weapons.

I don't really know. It's just an idea. I don't personally care for heavily subverting tropes just for the pride of subverting them. But I know Astruc does. I just think he wasted the chance for tall Marinette and pocket-sized Adrien.

[punkeropercyjackson]

We need to erase the term 'female fantasy' from fandom vocabulary and i'm NOT joking,cis/straight/white/neurotypical girls shut the fuck up and learn to consume media and create content that dosen't revolve around wanting to date men who're as conventional as possible within your writings instead of actual canon.Also 'Doll' isn't the compliment you think it is,please open a historical book that's not a period drama

[gryficowa]

Watching videos commenting on miracolous episodes talking about racism is interesting (Especially when I'm older than when I watched them + I'm European, specifically Polish)

Note, if you are outraged by Chloe's defense, I'm sorry, but Europe and the US don't really have the same approach (Which can be frustrating for non-white Europeans)

First of all, the text about sushi… Sushi was created in China and then came to Japan, which means that this particular text by Chloe is not entirely racist, I know, shocking, but Thomas didn't do his homework before writing the episode, so it came out strangely

As for Chloe confusing a Chinese with a Japanese, unfortunately I have an explanation, it is related to the fact that in Europe they speak collectively, i.e. "Asian", so yes, if we assume that Chloe only dealt with Japanese, and not Chinese, it was unconsciously confuses them with each other (I remind you, this is Europe, not the USA, here the topic of racism is more complicated), anyway, I don't believe that she's the only one who confuses Asians with each other, because we're talking about Europe, where such confusion is more "Normal" (however it sounds), why is she the only one? Why don't any adults do this? This is unrealistic and distorts the reality in Europe

Besides, the very fact that the series is written by a Frenchman who has no clue about racism says a lot, hello, you live in a country where Muslims are persecuted (There is a ban on wearing hijabs), so what more can I say about all this?

It's unrealistic that only Chloe confuses a Chinese and a Japanese with each other, older generations should also have a problem with it, because the action takes place in Europe, not in the USA, plus, older generations are more racist than the younger ones (Because the younger ones have access to for information), so it doesn't make sense that none of the adults are racist, Thomas, do you know what country you live in?

So yes, taking the action in France, i.e. Europe, in practice made Chloe's racism seem even more strange, because they could make it seem that she is not the only person in the whole country who has a problem with it, but it is known that Thomas Astruc prefers to pretend, that in his country and in the whole of Europe racism does not happen (And only a white fourteen-year-old child is the only racist… Yes, it sounds bad)

Europe is not the USA, you could have searched the Internet for information about current acts of racism in your country or Europe itself to present them in your series, but you decided to do something that makes no sense because of the place of action which is France, it looks so unrealistic, when you are European and you know the approach of people from Europe, antagonizing Chloe for racism when she is a fourteen-year-old living in Europe (where such racism is more common, because it is not the USA), to punish her for… As a European, she does not have an attitude like Americans and she took bad examples from adult Europeans

Thomas' attitude towards Chloe is even worse for this reason, he forgets that children are not born racist, they acquire this through adults, the Internet and other media (Like the news), throwing Chloe on the pile for being racist is harmful, yes, we should talk about racism and fight it, but hate a child for being a racist, because adults taught her that? A child's mind is still developing, it shouldn't be done, educating children is necessary, so Thomas, you fucked up the whole series

As a European, I have more reason to criticize this series for how it ignores the very topic of racism in Europe in order to antagonize a child (Fictional, but a child), if you want to show racism, then use information about it, not create worse versions of racism from the 70s -those from America

I had to describe it because it's frustrating how Americans hate Chloe for racism and they have no idea what it looks like in Europe, instead of bashing Thomas for showing racism in such an unrealistic way, they attack a fourteen-year-old cartoon girl, it's fucked up on many levels

Thomas doesn't know anything about racism, especially in Europe, if he did, only Adrien and Marinette would know it's racism, and the adults, including Chloe, wouldn't see it as a problem because they're fucking adult Europeans and we have unrealistic shit that pretends to be that it is progressive because it talks about racism, but the truth is that there is nothing there, no realism in this topic (Compare to US productions from the 70's, even they did it better…), this episode would be better if it showed real racism, and not the one just to show how stupid Chloe is -_-

Yes, I had to get this out of the way because a lot of people in the fandom are Americans and they look at Chloe from an American perspective, the problem is that Chloe is not American, she is French and that changes the perspective, yes, racism is bad, but remember that in Europe operates on different levels and Thomas Astruc presented it so badly that if you are from Europe, you it hurts

[richter10]

[kathrahender]

Female Characters in Media and how they should write them better (and their relationship with other characters too)

One of the things that upsets me is how women are depicted in media. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike some female characters for being female (like someone could think), I'm not a misogynist person. I dislike them for not being good characters. For being poorly written (in my opinion). If you want to keep reading, prepare yourself, because this would be long (?

First, the "girl with a crush" type of female character.

Some of the female characters are always following their crush wherever he goes, sometimes saying his name a lot of times in the show, and her life is almost centered in living for her crush and nothing else. Like they have no purpose except being around her crush. They (the female characters) care about her crush more than they care about anyone else (even their own family). Sometimes they care about their crush more than her own future. They care more about having (or not having) a future with her crush than they care about having a degree/a job.

And I hate those kind of female characters, because a woman's life shouldn't be determined by a man. They should be independent people centered in being successful in life, not being centered in having or not having a future with the man they like. And if the man they like doesn't feel the same/doesn't pay attention to them, then leave him alone (after all, he's not the only man in the world, is he?) or don't force the situation, just let it flow. If the man is meant to love them back, then he would do it. If he isn't meant to love them, they shouldn't waste time thinking about how their relationship could work. And if they are dating another person, they definitely shouldn't try to separate them (or actually separate them) because then their "love" towards the man they like wouldn't be "love" but obsession or the "if I can't have you, no one can" type of love.

Secondly, the "girl who is just the love interest" type of female character.

This is the type of character who is weak, dependent, and everytime they need saving. They add nothing to the plot except being the love interest. You could remove them and the only thing that would happen is that the hero wouldn't have a love interest. That's all. They are the type of character who do nothing important in the plot. They are in the show just to fullfill the "male character ending with a female character before the show ends" trope. They aren't strong, they aren't "useful", their existence is basically based in having to be saved, crying, or making stupid things to make the audience "laugh" or feel sympathy for her.

And I also hate this type of character. A female character shouldn't be in a show just to make the audience laugh. They shouldn't be in a show just to be the love interest. What you're implying with those type of characters is that a female character can't be nothing else than a non-important sub-plot. They can't be strong, they can't save the day, and they can't be fighters because "Oh my god, they're women, how could they be an important part of the war? 😡😡". And that's bullshit. Women can be strong and should be strong in media. Women should be and deserve to be important in the main plot. Women should save the day and they deserve it. Women deserve to be more than a "always crying" character.

Thirdly, the "female warrior who is more powerful than everyone else" type of female character.

This female character is strong, tough, resilient, brave, and more things. It's basically the reverse of the "girl who is just the love interest" character. She doesn't need saving, she doesn't cry (or at least she has just a few "weakness" moments) and she is important to the plot because without her there wouldn't be a storyline (whether she is the main character, one of the main characters, or the love interest of another character).

Sometimes this trope is handled well. This type of character can be well-written and be an awesome powerful female character, but there are some cases where the writers/showrunners/producers don't do it well (in my opinion). The thing is that in some shows/movies, to make the female character strong, brave, and intelligent, they make the male characters more weak, more "coward", and more dumb. And that's what I hate about the writing of this type of character. Women can be strong, brave and intelligent without making the male characters the opposite. A woman and a man can be the same, and you don't need to make one look bad to make the other look better. They both should be strong. They both should be powerful. They both should be though. They both should be intelligent.

And fourthly, the "female tough character who doesn't show a lot of emotions" type of character

This type of character is similar to the previous one, except that she isn't considered the "most powerful" character in the book/show/movie. She's strong, tough, resilient, brave (probably more things) and she doesn't need saving (most of the times), but she's not the most powerful character of the show. Yes, she is one of the strongest characters, but she isn't the strongest.

The problem I have with this type of character is that sometimes they appear with another trope. The malewife/girlboss trope. And two of those malewife/girlboss pairings seriously upset me because they're seen as "beautiful" "wholesome" and "awesome" when they aren't. The fans of that ship act like it's "healthy", but I have news for you. It's not healthy. It's not healthy to call your partner with mean nicknames. It's not healthy to hit your partner "as a joke". If it was the reverse, if the man was calling the woman with mean nicknames and he was hitting her "as a joke", everyone would throw hands. If "X" male character treated the "Y" female character like that, there would be no one in this world who wouldn't get angry at him.

But if it's the reverse? "Oh, she's not really hurting him" "Oh, she's so funny" "Oh, she's so silly" "Oh, she's so cute". And that's what I hate about this trope. That the female-on-male bullying is not treated seriously. And you can like these ships, okay. But at least don't pretend they are something they aren't. It's kind of toxic/abusive, and you can still like it, as well as you can like... I don't know, Buffy x Spike (?, but don't act like those ships are healthy because they aren't (this is me talking about the canon because some writers can write those ships as healthy).

Now, after all of this. I'm gonna mention some female characters that I think are well-written, as well as some straight ships that are good (again, in my opinion).

First, the female characters.

Pacifica Northwest from Gravity Falls. Lila Rossi from Miraculous Ladybug. Valerie Gray from Danny Phantom. Karai, April O'Neil from TMNT (any version). Katara, Toph, Korra, Asami Sato from Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra. Sabine Wren, Ahsoka Tano, Hera Syndulla from Star Wars Rebels. Nancy Wheeler, Robin Buckley, Eleven/Jane Hopper, Max Mayfield from Stranger Things. Chloe Decker, Ella Lopez, Maze, Linda Martin from Lucifer TV. Allison Argent, Lydia Martin, Malia Hale, Kira Yukimura from Teen Wolf. Alina Starkov, Nina Zenik from Shadow and Bone. Shado, Felicity Smoak, Laurel Lance, Dinah Drake, Sara Lance, Thea Queen, Caitlin Snow, Kara Danvers, Alex Danvers, Lena Luthor, Samantha Arias, Ava Sharpe, Zari Tomaz, Nora Darhk from Arrowverse (The CW). Regina Mills, Emma Swan, Snow White, Ruby, Mulan, Aurora, Ashley Boyd from Once Upon a Time. And more. I don't know what makes these characters so likeable, but I can't help but love them. Compare them with the characters I criticized, and see what I mean with the good/bad female character writing.

Secondly, the straight canon ships (I'm just gonna say my opinion about a few of them and mention the others because if I explained why I accept all of those straights ships and not others, the post would be very very long and I don't want that)

Gray Ghost from Danny Phantom. They had better development and better chemistry than Amethyst Ocean for me, and although Amethyst Ocean is not a bad ship, the way they ended up together at the end of Phantom Planet felt so rushed. With more development? Amethyst Ocean could have been a ship I would have liked.

Kataang from Avatar: The Last Airbender. I will always prefer Zutara/Zukka over this ship, but you can't deny they objectively had development and chemistry. The ship didn't feel rushed or forced, you could actually see they loved each other. And the two of them are powerful, the writers/showrunners didn't make one look bad to make the other look better (in my opinion).

Makorra from Legend of Korra. Their relationship at the beginning of the show was honestly beautiful, and although I like Korrasami, I wouldn't have minded Makorra being the Endgame ship in the show. For me they had good development, chemistry, their romance didn't feel forced or rushed, and their hurt/comfort scenes were so wholesome and heartwarming. And that without saying they also didn't make one of them more weak or more dumb than the other because yes-

Casapril from TMNT 2007. Although in this movie we couldn't see how Casey and April ended up together, what we saw was enough to make me think they were a good ship. I don't know if it was because their relationship seemed healthy or because it seemed like they loved each other so much, but I loved them.

Scallison from Teen Wolf. Okay, Scott McCall had a crush in Allison Argent at the beginning of the show, and some of you could say "Oh, so you accept a character having a crush as long as it's not a girl having it 😡". No. That's not true. Scott McCall had a crush on Allison, yes, but unlike Hinata and Marinette, he didn't stalk Allison, and he talked to her. And unlike Naruto and Adrien, Allison liked Scott almost since the beginning. Then, no, it's not the same situation. Scallison is very different from Naruhina and Adrienette. Scallison actually had development and chemistry, and you could see they both were down for each other since the start of the show.

Gweter from The Amazing Spider-Man. Their relationship is beautiful. The way Gwen got into Flash-Peter's fight and defended Peter, the way they slowly fell for each other, the way the connected so well... Everything between them was wholesome. And again, you could see the chemistry, you could see both characters were well-written without making one look worse than the other. They both were strong (in different ways, but they were), they both were intelligent, and they both were so in love with each other. Their romance wasn't rushed, or forced neither.

Snowing from Once Upon a Time. They're the couple of Once Upon a Time. Their relationship in the Enchanted Forest was beautiful, and although they had to work in their relationship in Earth, you can't deny they're soulmates. Their love is pure, even connecting them across realities, and if there's true love out there, they surely have it. You can ship other ships in this show, sure, but the chemistry between these two is undeniable. As well as their development.

Other straight canon ships I think they're well-written are Stricklake (Trollhunters), Entrapdak (She-Ra and the Princesses of Power), Aelita x Jeremy, Ulrich x Yumi (Code Lyoko), Hank x Shay, Lotura (Voltron Legendary Defender), Obitine (Star Wars), Jancy, Lumax, Mileven, Jopper (Stranger Things), Deckerstar (Lucifer TV), Scalia, Scira, Chelissa (Teen Wolf), Darklina, Helnik (Grishaverse), Petermj (MCU), Olicity, Barricity, Westhawne, Snowstorm, Quickwest, Captain Canary (Arrowverse), Danali, Damiko (Karate Kid), Samguel, MoHawk (Cobra Kai). As you can see (and if I'm not blind lmao) none of these ships are based in the tropes I previously said I hate. There are some of these ships that I don't like for personal reasons, but they are good ships and objectively well-written ships. So... yeah.

To end this post, I want to thank you for reading this, and if you support one of the characters/ships I criticized, please, keep it to yourself and block me or block the "Anti Naruhina/Percabeth/Adrienette/Hiccstrid" and "Anti Marinette/Hinata/Astrid/Annabeth" tags. I didn't make this post just to get hate comments.

If you think the same as me about this, thank you for your time! I'm glad you made it to the end of the post ;)

[baenyth]

What do you think of the Ladynoir Conflict in season 4, with Ladybug gradually keeping more and more secrets while Chat's feeling more and more isolated? Like, what do you think it says about the characters, and what do you think ought needs to change in order to resolve this conflict in a good way? There was also a lot of discussion at the time on who was more at fault for it, Ladybug or Chat Noir, so I'm interested in what your take is on that. (I've got my own opinion, but I figure I'll see yours first).

This is a tough question. Like, I feel like the easy thing to say is that Ladybug should've let Chat Noir in the loop more often. Or that Ladybug might not have had the time to contact Chat with her new duties as the guardian, or was traumatized by Chat Blanc. Or that Marinette only seemed to hold the guardian box as guardian and not make potions or whatever, and Chat Blanc is only referenced in one episode and was otherwise just a fanservice episode with no bearing on the plot. (In that case, I'd rather have a beach episode or something. I want to see the Miracucast enjoy themselves at the beach. I like the beach.) I feel like it does show Ladybug's controllingness as Marinette and Chat Noir's desire to be useful, however. I guess Ladybug is more at fault over this whole thing, as Chat Noir was merely reacting to being locked out of the loop, but like practically everything else in Miraculous, it feels underutilized. So many unloved ideas.

I'm not sure on the best way to resolve it. The easiest way would be for Ladybug and Chat Noir to just talk it out and Ladybug to explain that she revealed her identity to Rena Rouge and to explain what she's learned about the guardian and that she's sorry for keeping all this from him. Actually that's not bad. Maybe explain how the limits of the Miraculous are imagination-bound only too. Maybe we can finally get the Miraculous Kittycat and have Chat Noir on the same level as Ladybug for the first time.

[unfortunately-a-miraculous-fan]

I'm still upset over Marinette being so open about trying to expose Lila.

Not just because there are easier ways to prove that someone's lying. But because we were ROBBED of the possibility of the two of them being rivals in a much more private way than Chloe and Marinette were.

Can you imagine? Lila and Marinette in front of other people, unable to openly talk shit, so they instead just make bitchy, passive-aggressive comments at each other until the sun goes down.

You just KNOW Marinette's got the teeth for that. And Lila would make for such a perfect outlet for her.

[nixthelapin]

I think the writers totally missed out on using Alya and Lila as foils for both being foxes, but using the power of illusion and misdirection in very different ways.

Lila: using emotions and threats to set a trap for LB (and CN, but she’s got that personal grudge)

Vs. Alya: using her intelligence/cunning to get out of a trap (and get LB out too)

And just in general being very different people:

Lila’s entire character is that she’s a liar who will do anything to avoid the truth, while Alya is the investigative reporter who uncovers truth.

Lila as someone who hates and is out to get both Marinette and LB vs. Alya who loves and supports both

I just think they could’ve done a lot more with this, especially since they made both girls a fox character, specifically surrounding the Fox Miraculous (I know Lila never had the real one, but she did pretend to for her akumatization)- that’s not nothing!

But nah, instead Alya just becomes brain dead around Lila, believes all her lies without question (no matter how stupid or nonsensical), and doubts everything her best friend tells her when it comes to said lies. Wasted potential.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

So I have been seeing interesting discussion on the endings of Gabriel. The miraculous movie vs The season 5 finale ending.

-And the criticisms for the movie ending are valid, Marinette/Ladybug’s conflict is a lot less personal (cause time constraints)

-Gabriel technically defeated himself

-There wasn’t enough build up for the climax to feel satisfying unless you knew the show.

-Marinette’s personal involvement felt minimal to nonexistent. (She never met Gabriel)

-The powers are inconsistent

The wrap up was too quick

And these are legitimate criticism, especially because we never have Marinette interact with Gabriel once. Something that should have happened.

I can understand how that ending could feel unsatisfying.

Then we have the season 5 finale, which has the opposite problem

-It involves Marinette so much that Adrien is completely sidelined as a response.

-Gabriel ‘Wins’ but according to the writers he lost. (I saw the commentary. I vehemently disagree with there interpretation)

-Adrien never finds out about any of this

-Lila feels shoehorned in as the season 6 badguy

So I thought about both sides more, rewatched the S5 finale and the ending with these new perspectives and… I still prefer the movie ending more than the finale.

But why is that? Objectively speaking The movie is much more flawed and has very littler personal investment of Ladybug vs Hawkmoth. Something that movies don’t often do.

While The show has built up this personal conflict between Gabriel/monarch and Marinette/ladybug

By all logic I Should prefer the show ending.

But I don’t, and it’s precisely BECAUSE of the reasons I listed.

Movie! Marinette’s lack of personal connection to fighting Gabriel allowed me to focus on Gabriel’s motive and his interaction with his son. His genuine care of his son being his downfall MADE sense. Marinette was focused on saving her partner than fighting a villain, which the movie showed to be more of the core of the movie. Even foreshadowing the “Save one Life, save the world” line. And it even fits the fairy tale theme ML tries to go for.

Meanwhile the Show’s ending had a really good fight at the core with Marinette and Gabriel clashing. The fight between Monarch and Bug noire is one of the best in the series… BUT it’s because of this conflict that the ending feels so GUT WRENCHINGLY awful. Because it’s just another case of Marinette failing to stop Gabriel from doing what he wanted. Gabriel may have changed his initial wish, but he still basically did what he always did, cease power and leave Marinette to clean up the mess.

Even taking Adrien out of the equation doesn’t help fix the ending. Because Gabriel still did what he wanted. Gabriel gets a statue, he gets to die seen as a hero that he never was. He is seen as a good man. And it leaves Marinette having to let Paris think that. We don’t see Marinette doubting this, we don’t see opposition or even a question on it. It’s Marinette once again doing what she always does, taking on the burden.

Ah but the difference is that ML still has more seasons. This could all be subject to change. People could find out the truth. The wish has consequences.

And that is correct. There are consequences. And do you know who will face those consequences? Marinette. Because she always does. That’s what the show Always does.

The movie ending also has a potential sequel, but at least there, Marinette and Adrien don’t have secrets, Fu is still there, and the weight of reality doesn’t hang on Movie Marinette’s shoulders only.

And I think that’s what it comes down to.

It’s because I love Marinette that I hate how she has to fail after all her efforts and would rather have an ending that has less personal stakes for her if it means she can be better off as opposed to this drama bomb that basically left her back as the one with the weight of reality on her shoulders.