#marinette salt

[jennrypan]

Alya and Adrien got salted on for BASIC shit when Lila was introduced but Marinette and Felix having been acting foolish frequently with no consequences to acting like that and yet their fans love the hell out of them.

Marinettes allowed to stalk and harass people frequently cuz shes so in love with Adrien. Shes allowed to frequently sideline Chat and keep him out of plans and hand out miraculous like candy cuz shes the guardian and can do whatever. She can tell someone her identity but Chat cant.

Felix is allowed to pester Adrien about shit he had no control over and then try and get his friends akumatized for no reason. Then he finds out his aunt (ADRIENS MOM) is in the basement but says nothing, he also doesnt tell him what Gabriel is nor that theyre senti beings..he only frees Kagami cuz ??? Whatever ig. Hes allowed to selfishly sell out the kwami and no one bats an eye.

But Alya understandably questions Marinettes intentions about Lila (cuz Marinette literally ONLY cared abt Lila cuz she was after Adrien and then just decided to get extra with it.) And suddenly Alyas a bad friend who would bully Marinette ?? Really? Fuck off.

Adrien says to 'take the high road' cuz obviously trying to outwardly call Lila out isnt work and suddenly hes a push over and a doormat and he doesn't deserve his miraculous or Marinette??? Be fucking fr. Yall piss me OFFFF.

At least Adrien and Alyas behavior came from a place of caring. While your faves have been consistently selfish and wild with their behaviors.

[diana-berry]

I explained the fact that in crocoduel Marinette tries to get Luka’s own sister to uninvite him to his own birthday party and my mom goes “who did this?” And I said “Marinette” and she says “then we don’t like her” and I had to be like “no wait we do like her she just makes really bad decisions—“ LMAOOOO my mom gets the Marinette hate PROTECT LUKA HE DESERVES BETTER

[sploopyghost]

Once again, i personally don't think of this as salt and more like a realistic(?) outcome. I don't really know how to put this into words but before Kagami and Marinette became friends she had harassed Kagami not wanting her to get close to Adrien (though in frozer she did leave her alone but only for that episode). So i was thinking about this from the perspective of a girl who doesn't even know who Marinette is and is suddenly being harassed by her

Marinette had been watching Ella for a while now. She first noticed her when she and Adrien were talking and looked like they were really close. It's not surprising since they were both on the fencing team and actually had some things in common. Marinette however, had spiraled upon seeing them so close and feared he would be taken away from her, so she started coming up with plans to separate them. What Marinette didn't see was that everyone on the fencing team were close, not just Adrien and Ella. They spend months training together, having team meetings, and going to competitions together, it was natural that they would become close

Marinette tries many different ways to sabotage Ella, like messing with her gear so she couldn't go to practice or trying to mess up her clothes so she has to go home. Nothing she does works and really only seemed to slightly inconvenience her. As Marinette watches them practice she sees her and Adrien laughing, and not thinking, makes a desperate attempt to separate them. Marinette rolls something towards her so she can trip over it. What she doesn't expect is for Ella to lunge in that moment and step on the item. The item misplaces Ella's footing at an odd angle, twisting her ankle. Ella was on the ground holding her ankle in pain as the others rushed towards her

Marinette felt awful, she didn't mean for her to get hurt, she just wanted her away from Adrien. What Marinette didn't see was someone walking by in the moment she rolled the item towards Ella. They immediately called her out getting the attention of the team and their teacher. They explained that they saw Marinette roll the item towards Ella causing her to twist her ankle. Marinette avoided looking at Adrien, she couldn't stand the look of disbelief on his face. The teacher had told some of the students to take Ella to the nurse while they took Marinette to the principle's

She got a weeks worth of detention, but was made clear that she was lucky that Ella's parents didn't want to press charges. She knew that which is why she decided that she would make it up to Ella. She set out to the nurse's office and found Ella resting on one of the beds. When Ella saw her she got nervous but she wouldn't back down now. She apologized to her saying she never meant for her to get hurt and that she hopes they can be friends. Ella had looked at Marinette blankly before responding that she acknowledges her apology but doesn't forgive her. Before Marinette can respond Ella continues, asking why she would even do this when she doesn't even know her. Marinette stutters not knowing how to respond and not wanting to reveal that she did it out of jealousy. Ella only shakes her head and says that she doesn't want to be friends with her and wants nothing to do with her

After the incident with Marinette it quickly spread around the school what she had done. People whispered and gave her looks of suspicion wondering if they were next. Adrien had pulled away from her and didn't want much to do with her. He still couldn't believe that she would do something like that. Sure, she felt remorseful but only after she realized she really hurt Ella and not the other times where she tried to ruin her clothes. Adrien didn't know what to think anymore other than he really didn't know her as well as he thought

Line Divider by stragergraphics-archive

[richardsphere]

So there's a strange "defense" of Miraculous I've seen crop up on occasion. The idea that everything wrong about the Lovesquare powerdynamic is deliberate and will all be explored next season (lets put aside that this defense has been cropping up for 3 seasons now). The claim that Soon(TM), the writers are gonna make the characters face the concequences and explore the fallout of the entire jenga-tower of BS they've been "carefully" setting up all along... Which... isnt a defense I vibe with, cause it fundamentally boils down to "its not a Kids Rolemodel Show, its a deconstruction of a Kids Rolemodel Show". It's a defence that would place Marinette alongside Tyler Durden, Walter White and Rick Sanchez in the "you werent supposed to relate to them" pantheon. And while i think there are plenty of reasons that deconstruction is a usefull tool (even if i hate the dime-a-dozen "Childrens Fairytale but its depression" and "Superman, but psycho"' decon-stories out there). I'd argue 'Kids Rolemodel Show' is the one genre that should never be deconstructed, or at least not in the slow-burn,long-form way the people arguing this claim the show to be doing. And i hold that stance for one simple two-part reason: Poe's law, and the fact that the deconstructed genre is aimed at an audience with absolute zero media-literacy. (reminder: "5-6 year old kids" is the one audience where that is not an insult, simply a statement of fact.) A show aimed deconstructing a genre with an audience for whom it may actually be their first big piece of media is legitimately dangerous. Because there is no way a 5 year old can be expected to tell "deconstruction of a formulaic kids cartoon" from "Formulaic kids cartoon". The idea that "they've been making Marinette into a bad example deliberately and are going to reveal the entire show to have been a carefull ruse in season 6/7" is supposed to be a defense? Its frankly absurd. A 6 year kid who watched the show when it first aired and idolised Ladybug, could be old enough to drink by the time S6 reveals she was supposed to be a bad example. A little girl who based her relationships on the way Mari pursues romance would have a restraining order by the time the show indends to pull this twist. And some of y'all are claiming that "actually its a long-form deconstruction" is a defense? I legit don't get y'all.

[shysublimecoffee]

Marinette receiving the Ladybug mantle was an absolute mistake. I watched the special, and honestly, gurl is doing the most—and for what? A guy? One dude, and she’s ready to throw her common sense out the window. Like, how has Hawkmoth/Gabriel not used his own son more often as leverage against her by now? That’s villainy 101, and he’s just sitting on it. Like for the amount of times I've seen this show rag on ChatNoir because of his weakness in romance when that Ladybug biggest weakness not CN lol.

At this point, I don’t even care about what Marinette’s going through. Whatever emotional investment I had in her? Long gone. She’s out here spinning lies on top of lies, desperately trying to hold together her crumbling Adrien-obsessed empire, and for what? She lost. Game over.

Now, if this were a story about a girl slowly getting corrupted, spiraling into villainy, and intentionally written as a downfall arc? No problem. That would’ve been a compelling narrative with a real lesson for kids about the consequences of obsession and dishonesty. But nope, instead we’re stuck with this mess where her choices make it harder and harder to root for her.

Marinette's speech at the press conference—“Ladybug holds the truth, she holds the truth” —had me scratching my head cause it sound more like a villain then a hero. Like, did the writers forget she’s supposed to have hero-like qualities? She’s meant to be the messenger, the symbol of hope, the hero. But how often does she actually display that in her own show?

Lately, it feels like being Ladybug is more of an obligatory chore for her than something that brings her real joy or fulfillment. Isn’t the whole point of magical girls to inspire, to help others, and to grow through their journey? Where’s the sense of accomplishment, the spark, the joy of making a difference? It’s like they’ve stripped her of everything that should make her role uplifting and meaningful.

I've seen here and there about how MC was never meant to come off that way or the writers are trying to make her more complex or how dare you do you dislike complex female characters or the most used it was never her intention to come off that way it was a mistake.

I want you to picture this without the music just dialogue cause i'm going to be clearcut about this.

Ladybug went to an orphaned, grieving child—one who had been locked away in solitary confinement, surrounded by nothing but white walls and being sensory deprived—and lied to him about his father being a hero. Let that sink in. Gabriel, who systematically abused his own son, was painted as a noble martyr by Ladybug.

Adrien, a kid who was finally starting to question his father’s authority, even beginning to tear down the oppressive image of the man who controlled and hurt him, is now trapped in an even tighter mental cage. After all, if Paris sees his father as a hero, a savior, how could he possibly feel justified in blaming or resenting the man? Gabriel is now a martyr in the eyes of the world, and Adrien is left to wrestle with guilt and shame for ever having cruel thoughts about someone everyone else idolizes.

Ladybug’s decision to perpetuate this lie doesn’t just protect Gabriel’s image—it messes with Adrien’s already fragile mind. Instead of helping him heal or giving him the freedom to process the truth, she’s reinforced the very chains Gabriel used to control him. It’s not heroic; it’s delusional and harmful, all in the name of preserving some twisted version of peace in her head.

You want me to feel pity for a girl who I'm sorry if I sound harsh to yall at the end of the day just want to keep the peace to fill her delusions that everything is going to work out in her part at the end when really she's just the worst type of coward there is when it comes to confrontations lmao. Accountability? She avoids them like they’re some kind of plague. It’s almost impressive how someone can masquerade as a hero while being utterly incapable of facing the hard truths. Lmao, sure, let’s all pity her.

Honestly, in the earlier seasons, at least Marinette seemed to feel bad about her mistakes. Now? She’s only gotten worse. I headcanon that receiving the Ladybug mantle or becoming the Guardian inflated her ego, giving her a power trip. With no proper mentor to hold her accountable and everyone automatically deferring to her leadership, who’s left to challenge her? Well maybe CN if he has the guts to do so but he'd rather cower into his shell lol.

In hindsight, I don’t think Marinette should’ve become Ladybug—not because she lacks the capability, but because the role itself seems to have worsened her as a person. Instead of growing into the hero I though she was meant to be, she’s devolved, losing some of the humility and self-awareness she had at the start of the series.

Let’s be real—we’re in Season 6 now, and we all know the writers aren’t going to make Marinette face any real consequences. The whole universe bends over backward to accommodate her. If you’ve seen Season 5, you know exactly what I’m talking about.

That said, I’ll give credit where it’s due: the special was fun. Yes, despite all my ranting, I actually enjoyed it because it was funny in its own way.

At this point, though, I’m only sticking around for Adrien and Lila. Honestly? I’m rooting for Lila to be the one to drop the truth bomb and expose everything. It would be chef’s kiss poetic if she ended up being the one to set things straight. Lmao.

P.s For anyone who thinks there is a dilemma to be had about the whole thing its really not lol rip the bandaid off.

It reeks of a megalomaniac in the making, making her come off like a gaslighting psychopath. Ironically, it reminds me of Gabriel—especially with the way he used similar wording. Honestly, are we sure Marinette isn’t Gabriel’s true daughter? Because the parallels are man.

I’m genuinely angry that she is the one everyone feels sorry for, and it’s only because the show is stuck in her perspective. If we spent even a fraction of the screen time on Adrien’s pain, it would make for a far more compelling story. It’s infuriating. Marinette isn’t some helpless sheep/damsel victim here—no one forced her into this role at gunpoint. She made her choices, knowingly and willingly. How dare she act like the weight of the world was thrust upon her without her consent? When she very much messed with a grieving kid here?

And yet, Adrien’s pain—real, tangible, and far more tragic—is constantly sidelined. He’s an orphan, being lied to by nearly everyone around him, adults and teens alike, and his suffering is treated as a subplot to Marinette’s endless drama. Why should the audience feel more for her than for the boy who’s lost everything? Why is his pain has to be centered to her??

This isn't a small mistake this has far reaching consequences if the show had the balls to do it to lie to the entire world over a man who terrorized on people fear.

If Adrien ever became a villain, I wouldn’t blame him. In fact, I’d understand and give him the free ticket to go ahead and cataclysm and burned the world .

[demigodseameg16]

Bro as someone who uses a walking aid (a cane) and is disabled seeing the new trailer for Miraculous Ladybug makes me absolutely furious. I have never felt so much hatred for a fictional character before and yet here we are. I didn't like Marinette before but like, this just. This hits way too close to home and I know Astruc is going to frame it in a way that makes Marinette the good guy. But NOTHING excuses touching a disability aid without permission, especially fooling around with it and sabotaging it. And the fact that a younger generation is going to see this, I absolutely can't. I feel so bad for disabled children who will see this scene on TV and have their feelings be in the wrong, shown that they are the bad guys for getting upset, or heavens forbid being disabled. Screw you Astruc.

[booksrbetterthanpeople]

AU based off a project I did for English class! And got an A on. (My professor watches MLB by the way, and has a Fox miraculous necklace!)

My asks are off, so any questions you have, put ‘em in the replies or reblog

[indigomarina]

Isekai'd as Marinette Fanfic Idea

Okay, not saying I'm going to be the one to write it, but wouldn't it be cool if we got a 'woke up as her' fic where someone woke up as Marinette before the events of the show (preferably before 'Derision' so Chloe and Kim are their friends).

The OC/reader remembers the WHOLE show (and also remembers how much they hated the later seasons and Marinette), so they go through the show and fix pieces they don't like unintentionally affecting the show in ways they didn't think about.

Also their version of Ladybug would fawn over Chat Noir but would be friendly around Adrien (they love both, but feel Adrien needs a friend first whereas Chat needs love). However Adrien falls for Marinette (the OC/reader) first. So this unintentionally swaps the love square as well.

Again, I'm not sure I'm going to be the one to write it because I already has three fics (Miraculous Quad, Alterbug, Butterflies and Kittens) that are stuck in Season 1. But it'd be really cool to have it written because I think it'd be super cool.

[motherofplatypus]

After seeing several response about Sublimation, I can't help but feel like people are using Adrien's lack of social skill to justify Marinette's stalker behaviour.

"He's okay with it, so it's not stalking", "He doesn't know, so it's okay", "No one was harmed, so what's the big deal" are the excuses I've seen the most. And with Sublimation, people were going "Oh, he knows her so well, that's cute". I can't help but ask what exactly is cute about that?

Folks, this guy is someone who's been socially depraved for YEARS since he was a kid with his only friend being Chloe. He has little to no awareness of what is acceptable in society and what is not.

Him accepting the treatment and behavior doesn't make it okay.

[pythagoras180]

I think the fan reaction to "Werepapas", specifically that scene with the broken rings, proves that Adrien's fans don't actually see him as a person, just an object or Marinette's accessory.

I don't like Adrien at all. I've made that very clear. But when I saw that scene, I was still overcome with sympathy for him. I found it so utterly disgusting that his romantic partner was willing to kill him to defeat an enemy. She didn't call for backup, she didn't try every other option first, and she wasn't even sure she could bring him back (see "Ladybug"), but she gambled with his life anyway. This scene made me feel so bad for Adrien that I temporarily forgot how much I dislike him, and I just wanted to see him get as far away from Marinette as possible.

Yet it seems like all the actual fans of the show, even of Adrien specifically, didn't feel that same way. They didn't think there was anything wrong with what Ladybug did. And maybe this is because some of them blindly accept whatever the show feeds them, and since the show doesn't portray what she did as wrong, they don't see it as wrong. But I also think the fact that they weren't disgusted on Adrien's behalf proves that they simply don't care about Adrien as a person, just as an accessory to Marinette.

[jennrypan]

Also..sorry Natalie doesnt get to play Adriens mom after she agreed to lie to him about everything since SEASON 1/2? She actively worked with Gabriel. Even claimed she admired him cuz he would "Do anything for his family" like..ok. And then after she started dying and realizing Gabriels lost his damn mind she FINALLY decided to give a shit about how itll affect Adrien..and when it was all done..she still decided "Yeah lets act like Gabriel cared about Adrien and he was actually GOOD" Also lets not tell him hes a senti being and not tell him how important the rings are.

Like..no..everyone in that mansion, around Adrien cant say they love him if theyre alright with lying to him for who knows how long. (Yeah they feel bad but not bad enough to not do it so. Its all abt how this lie makes THEM feel, it doesnt actually matter how it affects Adrien.) I hope Adrien finds out and cuts them off for who knows how long, cuz this has been going on since season 1 and I doubt this show will be able to write Adriens reaction properly without making him feel bad for Marinette. (Happened at the end of season 4..then season 5..he had to comfort HER cuz she fucked up 😒)

[howhow326]

Congratulations Thomas Astruc you made me a Marinette salter

[vigilante-bardock]

I noticed this in certain crossovers that double as salt/bash fics (Namely in the beginning of Raise Your Voice Against Liars) but every time someone from fandom B meets Marinette, they automatically take her side no questions asked.

It’s like they lose the unique characteristics that makes sense them who they and become extensions of her will.

People will always have different opinions and preferences. Marinette’s “crush” on Adrien I know for a fact would not sit well with people like Ann Takamaki from Persona 5.

To anyone who has played the game, you know what I mean.

Another thing I have noticed is that people tend to pair her with Damian Wayne sometimes. DAMIAN WAYNE!? Has everyone lost their minds??!!??

That kid would absolutely hate Marinette! I am by no means a fan of Damian(I find him to be a very annoying brat) but I think even he would not tolerate her. Damian would constantly look down on her, call her out on a lot of her bullshit.

“What’s that? You didn't like Lila because she lied about having connections? Big deal Dupain-Cheng, everyone lies about that kind of thing. Grow up,”

And before anyone tries to give me the whole “Derision trauma” we all know that was a half-assed attempt to justify her stalking.

To quote Supernan:

“You’re not in love, you’re starstruck!”

[richardsphere]

I hate this shot. I legitimately dont understand why they included it. Cause up until this shot, i always think she's 100% genuine... But then i see this shot and i remember Mari started this episode obsessed with gaining controll over the one factor in Adrien's life she does not already controll (a non-mutual friend) and i remember: "feigned distress" is a classic manipulation tactic (it gets the other to apologise, now they're in the wrong and you've got the controll of the conversation). Cause i cant think of any reason add this shot, and spend the money to move the finger besides that mari is side-peeking to see if Sublime is pitying her yet, and that they want the audience to see that happen. I dont want to believe that Mari's fallen that far. Especially as this shot is after she learns her lesson for this horrible episode. But with the current state of cannon... I cannot read this shot as anything but her checking if she's "in controll" yet.

[arlakos]

The High Road: A counterpoint to one of the most commonly used Salt Takes for Adrien.

This isn't really a salt fic idea, but since we are on the topic of salt on this blog, I'd like to take a moment to talk about a scene that has largely been used out of contex ever since Chameleon came out, and that is the infamous high road scene that has since been used to death for every Adrien salt story

For those who are unaware of this scene (or perhaps are unfamiliar with the canon version), in the episode Chameleon of Sesason 3, Marinette is about to go expose a plot hole in one of Lila's many fabrications, only for Adrien to stop her by stating that it won't change Lila for the better (Full Transcript Below). Keep this transcript in mind because I'll be referencing it a lot.

Now, this scene doesn't seem like something to be mad over, but the the whole episode of Chameleon has twisted a lot of people's perceptions of certain characters for the worse. This particular scene just happens to be one that changed people's pereceptions of Adrien.

However, I think its actually somewhat unjustified. I feel that in many ways, Chameleon as a whole has been misrepresented for what changes it has actually brought into the show, and I feel that it's easy to take a lot of moments in the episode out of context, especially when emotions come into play. The episode transcript actually happened to be leaked before it was supposed to be relased, so a lot of people already made up their minds about what this episode was about before it was released. It's easy to hate on this episode when you're friends in discord have watched it before you and have started to shout buzzwords such as "The class betrayed Marinette!" or "Adrien is a monster!", etc etc. I would know, since that was how I found out about the episode in the first place, and watching it for the first time didn't change my initial perceptions.

Today, I would like to take a moment to take the infamous high road scene and talk about what it meant for the salty portion of the fandom, before taking a metaphoically sledgehammer and slamming some misconceptions about Adrien from the perspective of salty people. Sure, they're other scenes that could be looked at, but since every salt fic tends to reuse this plot point, I feel it deserves its own deconstruction.

1. The High-Road scene is proof that Adrien is an asshole!

Now this statement is a bit of a buzzword since the actual reasons for people disliking this scene can vary, but to be fair, the reaction to this scene is also more nuanced as well.

In truth, a lot of people already had issues with Adrien/Chat Noir as a whole (for reasons that I won't elaborate here since it would be worth its own post), but this scene seemed to open the floodgates with hatred for our secondary protagonist out of his percieved inaction, since many people now had dislike for Adrien, while those who hated him prior were more than happy to provide fuel for the fire. After the episode was released, these ideas began to merge together, resulting in this belief that Adrien has always been an asshole, and that the Chameleon scene was simply the final straw, and that if the show was written by a good writer (read: anyone who hated the episode), Marinette would actually ditch his ass!

Now, its debatable on whether Adrien had writing issues prior to this point, but I feel that using this scene to justify hatred for him is outright slander for several reasons:

First of all, Adrien never suggested for Marinette to take the high road if we are being logistical about it. He only complimented her on that regard, telling her she did a good job for "taking the high road", and that was after he sat next to her to show he was by her side.

His actual message to Marinette was that it wasn't worth it to try expose Lila at that moment (and to be fair, it wouldn't have worked, more on that later though) because all it would do is make her double down on her behavior. Plus, trying to expose her in front of everyone would just hurt Lila more than help everyone else, which is, if anything, not untrue.

Overall, the advice Adrien gave to Marinette was not meant out of a desire to hurt anyone (least of all Marinette), but was out of a genuine desire to help resolve a situation and prevent Marinette from doing something that would not have helped the situation. Even if he does have other character flaws, this situation was by no means a reason to villainize him for it.

2. Adrien prefers Lila over Marinette, thats why he told the latter to take the high road!

Again, another idea that is found in fanfics, but is ultimately untrue in canon.

While Adrien doesn't believe Lila at all from the beginning of the episode, he isn't exactly just letting Lila's actions slide either; his stance comes from that of believing that Lila being decietful will do nothing to actually help her make friends. However, rather than confronting her angrily like Marinette does, Adrien instead tries to be friendly with her and try offer Lila some advice to try and change, albiet to no avail.

Now, some people might argue that Lila doesn't deserve kindness considering her threat to Marinette just moments ago, but it should be also stated that Adrien knows NOTHING about this: as far as he's aware, Lila is a transfer student looking to make friends, but has a wrong way of doing so (so in a way, she's not unlike him, from his POV at least), so he's just trying to help her, rather than attempt to force her out in the open.

(Quick tibit though, if Adrien knew what Lila did to Marinette, he would probably be more inclined to help her and protect his friends, given that he was willing to 'sacrifice' himself to get Marinette un-expelled in the Ladybug episode)

By the end of the episode Adrien is obviously dissapointed in Lila continuing to act the way that she is, but ultimately refuses to sink to Lila's level in order to teach her a lesson. As childish as it is (and it should be considering Adrien is a TEEN) Adrien believes that Lila's deceptions will ultimately come back to bite her (Adrien even tells her this himself, see below.), but trying to expose her in front of everyone else will do more harm to Lila than it will help others, hence his methods of speaking to her privately about it.

3. Adrien's reasoning is horrible and stupid! He deserves to pay for it!

This reasoning is the one I find the most dissapointing, partly because it inspired The Karma of Lies story (Written by CartoonAddict564), and also because while Adrien's reasoning can come off as naive, it is by no means stupid, nor should he have to suffer for having a different viewpoint for Marinette. But to understand, you need to think of Adrien in terms of his character.

Adrien is not just a celebrity, but also a child with a very controlling father, who pretty much controls and manages his day to day life with the help of his secretary. As a result of his popularity, Adrien has to be very careful with what he says or does, not only because it would reflect poorly onto his father's company, but it would also force his father to step in. As the Collector has shown, Adrien being able to even LEAVE the home is something that could easily be revoked at any time, and being Cat Noir has only loosened the bars on his cell, not remove them completely. Adrien has very little to gain by confronting Lila, but everything to lose, which is in direct contrast to Marinette having everything to lose by letting Lila walk by.

So in the face of all that, plus the situation he is in now, why would he not act passive and provide advice to try mitigate conflict rather than escalate it?

Now whether or not that should be seen as selfish is debatable, it's ultimately not out of character for Adrien to try and provide more passive options to deal with Lila rather than go for the most violent option. You could even argue that Adrien's actions are also out kindness to Marinette, since (in his eyes at least) it could get her in trouble with her own parents if they try and confront Lila violently.

At worst, Adrien's passiveness is a result of his controlled upbringing. At best? He was just trying to help without causing conflict.

4. Adrien shouldn't have stopped Marinette from confronting Lila!

.... im sorry to say this, but yes he absolutely should have.

Marinette was about to confront Lila over which ear her supposed tinnitus was in. Aside from the fact trying to expose her on this alone would not have worked, this would have just resulted in Marinette becoming more estranged from her classmates in this situation. If Marinette should have confronted Lila about her lying, this was DEFINTELY NOT the way to do it.

This isn't to say that Marinette could not have confronted Lila, but this moment simply was not it. There were better alternatives to Marinette that she could employ in the future had she thought of doing so (such as coming to Alya as Ladybug and revealing that her frienship with Lila is a lie), or carrying a voice recorder to record any threats made by Lila.

As uncathartic as the situation was, from a writing standpoint Adrien's inteference ultimately helped Marinette keep her friendships in the long run, while avoiding making a fool of herself with a battle she simply could not win.

5. It's Adrien's fault that Marinette didn't go after Lila! Marinette would have been better if she brushed him off!

This sounds crazy, but this is a genuine point that people seem to mention when it comes to their reasons for writing salt fics. Even if Adrien's attempts to dissaude Marinette were out of concern rather than malice, people still condemn Adrien for pushing Marinette off that path of going after Lila. In their eyes, Marinette didn't get her immediate revenge for what Lila did, and Lila herself was allowed to continue manipulating the class. All of this becomes Adrien's fault by virtue of being the one to deny this from happening, denying the fans their catharsis.

However, the question I ask it that for all the blame they give to Adrien in this situation ... how come nobody blames Marinette at all for the same thing?

See, despite people argue that Adrien manipulated Marinette into not going after Lila, Marinette isn't necassarily gullible or stupid. If Marinette really thought that Lila was a threat worth going after, she could and would have easily found a way to take Lila down and get her removed, with or without Adrien's support (given she made a similar plan in season 5 for when Gabriel tried to get the Kwamis to lead him to Marinette). She wouldn't even need a miraculous to do so given she can make plans without transforming, and most of Lila's lies aren't particularly smart, they just can't be immediately discredited without proof.

And it can't even be argued that Adrien took advantage of Marinette's love for him (whether intentionally or not). Marinette has shown that even though she does value her friends, she doesn't need to rely on the validation of others to do whatever she feels is right (given that she argued against Alya and others in Risk when it came to their belief that Adrien was fine, even though she was partly amped by an akuma at the time). And if Marinette did think that Adrien was wrong, she probably wouldn't have continued to crush on him anymore.

Also its kind of lowkey sexist? Like, Marinette can probably make her own decisions, she doesn't need someone to dictate her own actions given she's the leader of a superhero team?

Ultimately, Marinette made the choice not to go after Lila. Perhaps she thought that Lila wasn't worth it. Maybe she thought that taking down Lila wasn't worth the time and stress. Maybe she ended up agreeing with Adrien and thought that Lila would expose herself sooner rather than later with her own deceptions. Either way, Marinette can make her own decisions, and she ultimately thought that going after Lila was not a good idea, for whatever reason.

Now, some people might be upset about this idea that Marinette is to blame, but people can't just play the blame game and expect their target to lose. It would honestly be preferrable to say that both Adrien and Marinette made a decision that (for better or worse) thought was good at the time and that neither should be judged for it, but the fandom doesn't seem to care for that because that means their salt fics would be invalid.

Thus, since people want to blame Adrien for apparently "manipulating" Marinette, Marinette should get equal blame for allowing herself to be manipulated by Adrien. Sucks to hear it, but since nobody calls out Marinette on her shit, I might as well be the first. Sorry if it triggers you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

So ... what does this all mean?

It means that my boy Adrien is innocent.

He meant no harm by suggesting that Marinette not go after Lila, nor did he do it because he took Lila's side over Marinette's. At best, he was unaware of how evil Lila was and thought she was misunderstood, and at worse he defaulted to using the same ideas that he uses to protect what limited freedoms he had, and offered it to Marinette as geunine advice. Marinette isn't a pushover either, meaning that not only did she also think what Adrien said was a good idea, but the fandom is inadvertently being sexist by implying she can't be independent and can't make her own decisions, given that she's shown her own independence multiple times. At best, both characters made a dumb decision that they thought was good, but neither can be soley responsible.

Ultimately, Chameleon was an episode that gave Adrien (and whoever else was targeted) a bad rep due to the kneejerk reaction everyone had to the episode due to Lila's lies, myself included. In truth, nothing of what happened in the episode had any actual long term effects, since Marinette still kept her friends and Lila didn't end up playing any major role for nearly 2 seasons, at least until season 5 finally got rid of 'Lila' and set up 'Cerise' to be the new Butterfly villain.

It took me a long while to put this belief into words, and it may be 2 seasons too late, but at least I can upload it now knowing that this truth could possible be shared with the world. Maybe it will stop the excess of salt fics in the world, and allow for new salt free works to be made. Who knows?

Anyways, I hope you found this to be an interesting read as I had writing it!

[marinettesaltprompts]

I don't really have an official prompt with this post, but I have had this idea for a while involving Adrien losing his ring because Ladybug doesn't think he's a good holder. It doesn't matter what is the reason, all that matters is that Ladybug never learns who Chat Noir actually is when she comes for the ring.

At first Adrien is both angry and upset about the situation, but eventually he manages to heal from it. He's eventually able to get over losing Plagg and finds himself having more free time without having to deal with akumas or patrols. He's able to connect with others again due to the lack of a secret identity, including Kagami (whom he previously messed up with due to said secrets).

On the flip side however, Ladybug can't find anyone to wear the Black Cat Miraculous for more than a few battles. Outside of those who simply didn't have the combat experience needed to use a miraculous, the few that Ladybug was able to last on the battlefield eventually quit, either because they couldn't handle Ladybug's "strategies" or because they had gotten traumatised after one of Hawkmoth's akuma effectively killed them.

However, despite all her failures, she never once attempts to find or get in contact with whoever was Chat Noir. Despite everything she has gone through, he was obviously still a bad choice!

Eventually, another Hawkmoth attack leaves Ladybug without anyone willing or capable to use the ring of the Black Cat, so when the next akuma appears, she tries a gamble.

Adrien is running away from the akuma battle with Kagami when Ladybug lands in front of them both. Adrien is calm (though inwardly still hurt), when Ladybug gives Kagami the Dragon Miraculous, but any calm he has is shattered when Ladybug turns to him, carrying an all too familiar miraculous.

Apparently Ladybug wants Adrien to be the next Cat Hero. Who would've thunk it?

To Ladybug (and Kagami's) shock, Adrien refuses the ring outright. At first Ladybug tries to butter him up with the opportunity to use the power to help others as well as save his friends, but Adrien still refuses. Eventually, whatever composure Ladybug has vanishes, as she all but begs Adrien to take the ring and help, to the point even Kagami is semi-helping, wondering why Adrien doesn't fight given his own physical skills.

Eventually, the akuma approaches their location, and Ladybug is all but screaming for Adrien to take the ring.

Adrien: I don't care! There's other people who would be more than happy to have superpowers! Go after them instead.

Ladybug (half crying): I-I don't have anyone else! (Adrien and Kagami are shocked at learning this) I've already tried finding other people to wield the Cat Miraculous and none of them worked out. E-either they couldn't handle the miraculous or they couldn't work as a partner. You've already shown that you are strong as a fighter and I don't have anyone else to ask! You are literally the last person I can ask that to take the ring so please take it!

Adrien: ... always the last person you want to talk to? Right Ladybug?

Ladybug is confused by this statement, but then lets it pass when he see's Adrien nod and takes the box. However, that smile fades when Adrien speaks again.

Adrien: ... just to be clear, I'm only doing this once, and that's because the akuma is close by. Once we are done here, don't ask me to come back again.

Adrien opens the box to find Plagg coming out of the box. Ladybug attempts to explain the power to him, but he doesn't listen, merely putting on the ring.

Plagg: Don't suppose this is a reunion?

Adrien: Not for long. Sorry.

Plagg: I figured. Bridge is too burnt huh?

Adrien sighs, then transforms.

He could have chosen another outfit or an alias, but Adrien is too fed up to care anymore. In this moment, the only thing he wants to do is show Ladybug WHY he's angry, and why he doesn't want the ring.

Kagami and (especially) Ladybug both can only stare in shock as Adrien transforms, as a million thoughts rush through their minds and both girls finally realise why Adrien didn't want the ring back.

In Adrien's place stands none other than Chat Noir.

And he's not smiling.

"...Well, you got what you wanted. Lets save the city then. One last time, right partner?

(That's all for now, please let me know if you want this prompt continued. Happy new year.)