#anti naruhina

[manhu]

Actually, Naruto's kiss with Sasuke can be considered romantic.🙂

Are we sure about this?🙂

Anyway, Naruto's first and true romantic kiss was with Sasuke. And Sasuke and Naruto kissing was intentional, not an accident.

[kathrahender]

Please can the male character of a fantasy show/shonen anime not end with a female character for once? Stop with the heteronormativity dear God.

Give the main male character more female friends instead of giving him female love interests. Male characters deserve to have female friends. They don't have to be always romantically involved! I'm tired of people always wanting to ship a girl and a boy without any other option. They could be just friends! (and this feels very close to me because I had a best male friend in high school and people ALWAYS saw us as lovers and it WASN'T true at all! It was so irritating I swear. "You look good together" "You are a good couple" "Are you two together?" Why can't you leave us alone??? He was just my friend). Because YES, a girl and a boy can be friends without feeling romantic love for each other.

Annabeth could have been Percy Jackson's first female friend and she could have been the first girl who cared about him, just like a "female version of Grover" and just a friend- but no, they had to end up together because God forbid a main male character not being the boyfriend of a girl (and the same happens with Hiccstrid, Jlaire and Anidala, they could also just have been friends)

Naruto and Hinata could have been besties instead of lovers but no- they had to make Hinata a girl whose life was only centered in "How do I make Naruto-kun love me?" (and the same happened to Iris West. She could have been more important to the plot and Barry's best female friend- but instead she was just his love interests and her development was null. And the same happened with Allura. At first she was a good character, but then she was only there to be Lance love interest, what he should have been overcome. And btw Allura's romantic love towards Lance felt very rushed. As well as Hinny was so bad developed in the movies and Ginny's development didn't exist).

Seriously people stop with these things. Stop reducing a female character to a love interest. Don't make the main male character end up with a female character because that "it's better for the plot" "it's better for the world" "people won't accept the male character dating another male character" "people won't accept the male character not dating anyone". Not everything has to be a straight couple. Actually, not everything has to be a couple! All relationships in the book/show/movie/anime could be platonic and it wouldn't be a big deal! (Although personally I like romance, but aroace people also exist and they deserve to be represented in media).

[thesauce8]

another reason the canon pairings arent believable is that it is way too difficult for me to believe that naruto loves his wife more than sasuke

like just judging by the canon interactions, a bond that should be very obvious to me simply isnt

you cant just say “oh yeah he loves hinata more than anyone because she is the love of his life” but have him promise to die by sasukes side and say shit like “when you hurt, I hurt”

its plain laziness

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

I don't care what you think but Sasuke and Naruto should have eloped and traveled the world together.

[moon-trees]

If Naruto and Sasuke had to choose between each other and their wives, they would definitely choose each other.

[snserendipity]

HELP IM PISSING MYSELF

[stardewpoesie]

I just want to say; sasuke being gay isn't a "headcanon" for me. It's pretty much canon. Naruto being gay is canon to me too, but I respect people who also see him as bisexual. There's honestly not much room for denying their queer coding and the queer portrayal of Naruto as a story.

And, Sakura's character is used in the story as a device to turn down heteronormativity. The way she comments on events, and the way her feelings canonically dont reach/touch Sasuke nor compare to Naruto's is proof of it.

[usuratongaychi]

“sasunaru is incest”

there is actually 2 reasons incest is not good evolutionarily speaking:

a. genetic defects arise bc the child gets multiple copies of already present defective genes, thats why incest results in club foot and genetic disorders or worse defects that dramatically survival/quality of life. humans are trained to not engage in this for survival of the species. thats why if you have siblings, you probably dont like their scent.

b. psychologically it destroys and distorts the family bond. evolutionarily the family bond is inportant bc those ppl are supposed to protect you. modt cases of incest are usually an abuse of power or just straight up rape, so its never really consensual anyways.

naruto and sasuke dont meet these criteria, their genetic relationship is incredibly distant and they were not raised together to believe they are family

neither circumstances are met

the term brother is used to mean close friend, also in gay relationships , “brother” was kinda used as a code word to mean close male relationships. “brother” doesnt mean “i literally think im related to you” it just means closer than a friend…

“but they are reincarnates” if being reincarnated makes them incest, then ppl who genuinely believe in reincarnation should never date anyone bc they could be dating a reincarnated family member

you dont have to like the ship but making up that a gay relationship is perverted and incest just because you dont like it is homophobic as hell and rooted in the idea that gay people are deviants <3

[narutouzumakiarchive]

what are your thoughts on the “kishi based off naruto and sasuke off him and his brother so it’s weird and morally wrong to ship sasunaru.” IMO I’m like…you know what else is weird? kishi making the two characters that are supposedly based of him and his brother kiss accidentally and not only did they accidentally kiss but that scene is replayed multiple times in the manga and anime. So yeah…

Well I many thoughts.

For starters, the interview in question (and I'm still not sure of the source) states that the bond between Kishimoto and Seishi, his brother, was based on the aspect of feeling mutual pain.

Now let's look at another interview, from Kishimoto the lying liar. In it he states that his wife might secretly realize that Hinata isn't the real model for his wife because his wife is quite strong, which the interviewer noted was kind of like Sakura. Isn't that interesting.

In this interview he also implicitly acknowledges the implicit similarity between Sakura and his wife based on the particular aspect of strength. And yet, sasusaku's wouldn't use this interview as an indication that Sakura was in a romantic relationship with Naruto. Nor would they claim that Kishimoto (who frequently acknowledged that Naruto was a reflection of him) was writing a manga in which his wife (Sakura) was romantically in love with the analogue of his brother (Sasuke) Why?

Because while fiction is a reflection of life, it is in no way an exact representation of life. People in real life are complex multi dimensional beings and have complex and multi dimensional relationships; in other words, people and relationships have dimensions and depth that extend beyond one singular aspect, especially characteristics that are as common and generic as strength, and shared feelings of pain. Thus, Naruto and Sasuke, who also have additional depth in their bond beyond feelings of shared pain (let me know when brothers have feelings of uncertainty regarding the nature of their relationship btw) aren't a perfect analogue of Seishi and Kishimoto.

But I also want to note that they never extend this logic to the reverse. For example, Naruto and Sasuke are explicitly likened to Izanagi and Izanami, who in the Japanese mythos Kishimoto drew inspiration from, on the basis of perfect complementarity, were married. Surely, according to their logic, since basing the fictional dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke of of one aspect of the dynamic between two Gods who were married means that Naruto and Sasuke had romantic feelings for eachother, right? And yet something tells me those hypocrites who are triggered by Naruto and Sasuke would disagree. Because even they can intuit that fictional depictions don't necessarily have a perfect 1 to 1 relationship with the things they derive inspiration from.

But, additionally I need to add that Kishimoto could say that Naruto and Sasuke are the most brotherly of brothers and that it would be a crime to ship them — he could even have them end the series affirming they were like brothers — and it still wouldn't matter for two reasons.

One, intent does not equal impact. It would not matter if Kishimoto intended for Naruto and Sasuke to have a brotherly dynamic if what we were shown in the text is NOT a brotherly dynamic. People put a lot of stock in information from interviews, but while that paratext can help enhance our understanding of the text, ultimately, it is seperate from the text and the text is king — in other words, the purpose of a system (in this case, the Naruto text) is what it does.

But let me talk about a funny example first before I discuss Naruto and Sasuke. In 2009, Folgers Coffee released an infamous commercial that made the relationship between a brother and sister take center stage.

Now I suggest you watch the video for yourself, but for people who want the TLDR: It received a ton attention and backlash as a result of the very obvious incestuous undertones.

Now the video was obviously meant to depict the dynamic between a normal brother and sister. I mean, taboo themes in a commercial for a brand that has consistently utilized rhetorical appeals to wholesome conservative family values makes for bad business. And yet, despite the commercial making it obvious that the main characters in the ad were brother and sister by having them explicitly indicate as much, that line didn't do much the quell the underlying tension that viewers picked up on when watching the coy flirtation and intense gazes.

Which brings me back to Naruto and Sasuke. Most people that interact with media do so casually. Many are looking for simple minded entertainment. They aren't going to comb through the internet to look for cherry picked interviews to discern the nature of Naruto and Sasuke's relationship. They'll simply look at what's presented in the narrative to do so, and what the narrative presents is that of an overwhelmingly romantic dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke.

Romance is a "social structure that's biologically potentiated." This will receive more elaboration in another post, but at its core much of what we consider to be romantic has been shaped by shared socioculturally produced conventions (that can be specific to particular cultures/societies or more globalized). And when it comes to determining what is romantic in a narrative, the shared conventions and expectations are further mediated by the values that the text promotes.

People who interact casually with Naruto won't see Kishimoto's interviews, but they will see things like...

The classic romantic kiss/almost kiss intimate moment in the rain

Sakura stating that all she wants from Sasuke is acknowledgement in an explicitly romantic context (which is an example of a convention/ideal being promoted in the text as romantic), Naruto internally identifying with Sakura in this regard, and Sasuke giving Naruto the acknowledgement that he wants but not Sakura

Naruto getting tingles in his lower parts when thinking of said acknowledgement from Sasuke

Sasuke thinking about his kiss with Naruto and Naruto's dream during what he believed to be his final moments, and indicating it was one of the many reasons why his body decided to move on its own to save Naruto, a moment that was explicitly paralleled with Haku's sacrifice for Zabuza's dream a mere few chapters later, the same Haku that was implied to have subtextually romantic feelings for Zabuza [and a quick interjection, acknowledgement of what is presented in the text does not equal promotion. Moral critiques are important and just as valid as more stylistic analyses BUT they are distinct things. "Haku was never implied to have feelings for Zabuza because that's gross" is not a meaningful analysis]

Naruto making a proposal that significantly resembles the structure of shinju (double suicide), (a concept that has great significance in Japanese and Western popular culture, hello shared cultural conventions, hello Chikamatsu Monzaemon, hello Romeo and Juliet) a concept that was invoked by Omoi at the beginning of the volume that Naruto's proposal was in. This concept is promoted as a romantic value in the text via Omoi, and of course, is accords with popular sociocultural understandings of what we know to be Romantic.

And make no mistake, Kishimoto was intimately aware of the history of the romantic convention he drew from.

Naruto being Sasuke's tether to humanity in the same way that Rin was Obito's tether to humanity as well as Naruto being visually framed in Sasuke's memory in the exact same way that Rin was framed in Obito's memories in back-to-back chapters.

And there's more, but there's no need to continue because even just these moments highlight how far beyond the het dynamics Naruto and Sasuke are in terms of mutual, romantic implications. Naruto and Sasuke's dynamic is shown as romantic which it why it wouldn't even matter if Naruto and Sasuke weren't intended to be romantic.

Now, the second reason why it wouldn't matter if Naruto and Sasuke were intended to be non romantic brothers is that.... they aren't brothers. Like the most surefire way to make a bond be brotherly is to make the characters related. [And not have their first pivotal interaction be a classic "accidental kiss" ship bait moment that was iconic enough to be recycled by their kids who are now love interests.] And further, the trope of two people (gay people in particular) who aren't siblings but have a unique, powerful and intimate bond that's metaphorized and/or euphemized as sibling-like doesn't inherently negate romance.

But let me provide an example. There's a show called Breaking Bad, centered on a man who ostensibly turns to a life of crime in order to protect his family, but he's not important here. In the show, we're provided with the backstory of the primary antagonist in Season 4, Gus Fring. And the viewer gets to see that the reason Gus decided to devote his life to getting revenge on the cartel was because the loss of someone that was particularly close and precious to him, a man named Hector.

Within Gus' backstory, there's really only one scene of note that implies the two are gay. When a previous antagonist named Hector crudely pees into the pool, in the presence of Gus and Max, and is chastised by a fellow associate, Hector remarks that the two men won't say anything because they like what they see and makes suggestive kissing noises at them.

But there's something interesting about the way Max describes the relationship between himself and Gus. He explicitly states that he knows Gustavo like a brother. Hell, the name of the business that he planned to start alongside Gus was called Los Pollos Hermanos (translated in the show as The Chicken Brother's) and even the episode in which their story is expounded upon is named "Hermanos." And yet, many viewers picked up on the romantic subtext between Max and Gus, subtext that the showrunner confirmed was intentional. In the viewers minds, the subtext wasn't wholly negated because they knew eachother like brothers.

And that's because, the metaphor of the sibling, is often merely utilized to invoke desirable traits of idealized siblinghood (like friendship and trust) while setting aside the biological limitations of actual sibling bonds. Hence, in Japanese and Western media, this invocation of the sibling-like bond often occurred (and still does) in tandem with romantic subtext, and this is especially common in gay narratives when characters are trying to understand the nature of their feelings.

But this is a nuance that is lost by people that only chronically consume battle shonen. If you showed them the scene of Max talking about his dynamic with Gus they'd decry the people who dared to call it gay and make some fake deep statement about how people want to undermine pure brotherly bonds by making everything romantic. Because only in the Naruto fandom will people complain about you bringing up the fact that maybe it's gay to think about a kiss when you're about to die or to feel special butterflies when you're acknowledged by your rival. They'd combust if you tried to explain that idealized characteristics present in particular relational categories (like friendship and brotherhood) can overlap.

And if you go back to the interview, in which feelings of intensely shared pain are regarded as brotherly, you'll see that Kishimoto notes just that. He states that feelings of brotherly love and friendship are the same exact thing. Which means that in the period when Sasuke considered Sakura a nakama, something that obviously ended after he left the village, according to the very same interview that narusasu antis foolishly claim debunks our ship, it would mean that Sasuke also had fraternal feelings for Sakura as he did for the rest of Team 7 and thus was morally wrong. But you can't expect logic from het shippers.

Which brings me to my final set of points. I've already reached the 30 image limit so I can't post more images on this post (and will probably save it for another ask) but my post this far has only adressed the demographic that genuinely believes in the narusasu are like brothers argument. But, you need to understand that a significant portion of the people that push that argument don't even believe in it themselves, and I'm not joking. Search any narusakusasu account or popular "poly Team 7" art post and I can guarantee that at least 7 out 10 times, if you click on the profile of a someone with a cherry blossom and tomato emoji pair and search "incest" or "brother" on their account, you'll find a post of them speaking negatively about narusasu. It's almost funny how consistently it turns out to be true, but again, I'll address that in another post (along with the behavior of naruhina's because they tend to use different argument against sns). The point is that their issue with narusasu has never been about "moral wrongness" but about the fact that Sakura (and Hinata in the case of SasuHinaNaru's) isn't involved in their dynamic.

In fact, many Sakura stans are multiSaku's that have no problem shipping her with every man that ever breathed in her vicinity (Madara, Sasori, Itachi, Kakashi, etc.) and even the ones that didn't (Shisui).. I mean they're even publishing reworked fanfiction, [see this ItaSaku novel]. And yet they only bat an eye at Naruto and Sasuke. That's why ultimately, you shouldn't take them seriously, because they aren't looking to engage with you in good faith. They just want to undermine narusasu while stealing our tropes for their ship.

But since the word of Kishimoto is law to them, just bring up any one of the interviews in which Kishimoto's mocked Hinata, Sakura NH and SS, like him calling Sakura detestable, or his reaction to someone liking Hinata being "so you like girls with big boobs," or him initially agreeing that SS and NH were unrequited, or him stating he didn't know if Sasuke and Sakura would last, or him stating that Hinata isn't a regular heroine that stands at the main character's side but the type that watches him from the shadows (when her entire goal during the manga was to stand by Naruto's side), him laughing at an interviewer that stated Sasuke dealt with Sakura by leaving, or Kishimoto stating that he didnt have any devotion to the love story between Naruto and Hinata and he didnt plan to write it until Studio Pierrot suggested it, or Kishimoto stating that he avoided writing the reason for Sakura's love because it would sound too contrived, or — well, you get the point.

[shiningstars-world]

I don't understand why ppl deny Naruto's love for sasuke and believe in such a things like " oh he didn't understand love until he met hinata"

Meanwhile we see multiple times that how much Naruto cares for him...

For instance: sarada is talking about how much is a person who made a lunch box is special

And here we have Boruto who thinks of his mother make that lunch box with love

But guess what? When Naruto receive the lunch box, the only one he's thinking is Sasuke...

Like can kishi be serious?? He made Naruto think about sasuke instead of hinata!!

So sasuke is Naruto's special person and not hinata ... Hope this help

[ironjeonss]

If you have to put out extra content at the end of your story to justify a pairing, then that means it was never that good of pairing to begin with.

[thesauce8]

you cant expect us to believe naruto loved hinata all this time and didnt realize it simply because he wasnt aware. even if youre not aware, if youre truly in love then there should be signs (thinking about them, feeling good around them, worrying about them constantly, wanting to be around them, etc). weve seen this with naruto and sasuke but not naruto and hinata.

same with sasuke and sakura. “he just doesnt know how to express his feelings” doesnt work when he doesnt show them period. weve seen sasukes hidden feelings about naruto present themselves in the narrative but not with sakura. you cant just cut corners and expect everyone to believe it.

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

It's funny when sasusakus and naruhinas say that "hah, atleast they are married"

the marriage is barely surviving.

And then they would say shit like "sns is toxic too"

Sns were laughing, genuinely happy as they lay in the bloody mess of thier arms, they were happy talking about double suicide, while they look like being held at a gunpoint and are utterly miserable in their so called marriages.

[0ynes]

Kishimoto having both Hashirama and Naruto only get married when Madara and Sasuke leave Konoha makes me giggle. We get it, both Hashirama and Naruto were heart broken and settled with women, because they couldn't run from heteronormativity and their one and only left.

The way Mito doesn't show up at all in Hashirama and Madara's backstory. It's not Kishi hate for woman, she just doesn't matter lmaooo. And don't get me started on The Last and the need to make a whole movie to justify naruhina, after Naruto left her on read when she said she loves him.

[narutobyari]

Her eyes reflect love ❤️

[leportraitducadavre]

Just read Minato's one shot and man I have bad news for the SS and NH fandom that tried to convince themselves that Kishimoto didn't write romance because he sucked at it, lmao.