#so many good episodes after s3.

[wetpapert0wel]

bojack horseman is a really really good show.

[doodle-list]

A character can be problematic sure, hell that makes them complex and interesting. But if everyone around them (including the writers and the fans, not just people in universe) treats them as unproblematic or sweeps their flaws under the rug, we got a problem

Like the character themselves can think they’re unproblematic sure, but dude making it so they’ve done nothing wrong and never addressing it, thats not a strong badass character, thats just a badly written one

[what-does-the-moose-say]

Really into the idea of just rewatching aos again. Did i finish 2 days ago? Sure. Lets go again. Right now.

[mothknight42]

on the guide, writing women in wwdits, and that ending

I firmly believe the Guide is the one of the most wasted, underutilized, and massacred characters in the show, and the series finale only confirms this. So let's talk about why!

The Guide is interesting as a character study in regression; when we first see her, despite being a lackey for the Vampiric Council, she is quite powerful and assertive. She has no issue telling off our main Vamily (insert Colin Robinson smile to camera here) and we see her in S3 repeatedly fixing the messes everyone causes at the Council all while bemoaning her position. Sure, she is a joke to our main vampires at best, and a nuisance at worst, but she does have power and clout and a voice.

Then when S4 roles around, we finally get some legitimate backstory for her. She used to be a "messy" vampire, and her current uptight personality is essentially a dramatic 360 after suppressing all of her raunchiest memories and being forced into eternal servitude. This is interesting! Even more interesting is how she changes in response to learning this about herself - we see her reject Guillermo despite her passion because she isn't that person anymore ..... and become entirely wrapped up in serving Nadja.

While she is technically the butt of the joke for the whole Vamily, she becomes most clearly Nadja's kicked dog. She vies for Nadja's attention, friendship, and approval. We see her constantly trailing Nadja and helping her with the nightclub in various ways. And of course, we see how Nadja derides her, dismisses her, and on occasion, throws her a pathetic bone (such as 'gifting' her the vial box during the Wraith Union episode). By this point, we as the audience KNOW the Guide is quite powerful and capable in her own right; and yet, here she is, nipping at Nadja's heels like a lost puppy and desperately trying to be included.

In many ways, the Guide is set up very directly as a foil for Guillermo, with Nadja as her master (MISTRESS NADJA!!!). Both Guillermo and the Guide are powerful and unique in their own right, both more intelligent than the other vampires in many cases, and yet, both are seeking acceptance from those same vampires who treat them like dirt. It is good writing! And a good way to establish that despite Guillermo's dreams of becoming a vampire, it will not guarantee him the love and acceptance he is seeking from Nandor and the rest.

And then the writers almost completely abandon it. We get very little commiseration between Guillermo and the Guide post her rejection of him, and instead as Guillermo becomes more clearly loved and accepted and PROTECTED by the Vamily, the Guide is shoved in his place as the butt of many "not you" jokes. There is no clear purpose given for this beyond that the writers find it funny; after all, the Guide herself is no longer the uptight pencil pusher we meet her as, so the Vamily's repeated rejection of her just feels like a cheap gag - one that gets less and less funny as time goes on, since the Guide IS often included in Vamily hijinks. Clearly she is ALLOWED to be around them, so the hate directed to her feels forced for a cheap laugh rather than having some legitimate purpose.

And then all of this culminates in Morrigan Manor, right? An excellent episode that shows the Guide's true personality (she is fun! she is clever! she listens to the interests of the Vamily and cares about them!) as well as how hurt she is to be rejected by them (rejected by Nadja specifically - we will come back to that). She doesn't imprison Guillermo and draws a direct connection between the way she is treated and the way they treat him ...... but while Guillermo has spent the season in cahoots with Nadja/Colin/Laszlo, who have hidden his secret to protect him and have proved they care about him, the Guide gets none of that. She gets false closure via a handpicked clip that turns out to be another joke at her expense! And for no good reason! She has now spent three seasons proving she wants to be and can be a good friend to them, that as a vampire she is powerful and useful to them, her personal interests (painting and maintaining archives) are things the other vampires also show interest in ....... and yet!

I've seen arguments that the Vamily are "selective" about their friendships, that friendship is the most meaningful thing for vampires, that the Guide *wanting* to be their friend is why they won't let her, but I'm sorry, no. All of the vampires make plenty of friends, if not with other vampires than with humans throughout the seasons. One of the longest running arcs in the show is that of Sean with Laszlo, and we see how both Nandor and Nadja accommodate that friendship without real question or pushback. Even in Pine Barrens, the problem Nandor has is not that Laszlo likes Sean better, it is that Laszlo has been neglecting Nandor. Nandor just wants to be INCLUDED in guy time; he tries to connect with Sean himself and has no real issue with the guy!

The Guide isn't accepted into the Vamily, despite actively helping them for four seasons, because the writers think it is funnier for her to be the new Guillermo - except without ANY character arc or importance. She is the cheap gag they can trot out whenever necessary, and the series finale really leans hard into that by both making her a parody of a Trump supporter for a quick laugh (a joke that by and large just wasn't funny and felt extremely out of place in the series - even beyond the optics of making that kind of joke, it felt lazy and was only aiming for a shock value laugh) and making her body into a commodity for the Monster to lust over. She is stripped of much of her agency and anger for no real purpose. The only shining moment for her this season, her rejection of Nandor, feels like a breath of fresh air that is immediately forgotten about in favor of making her into the woman who gets shit on and ignored for laughs.

The Guide could have been used for anything. Anything! She is older than some of the Vamily, has a very fun hinted at backstory, has different powers and a disposition to the rest of the main cast - and is played by KRISTEN SCHAAL, a veritable comedy icon at this point. And yet, she is shoved to the background, only brought out into the forefront for a cheap joke at her expense - a joke that stopped being funny seasons ago.

All of which has to do with the show's inability to write women.

Nadja, a main character for god's sake, by the end of the show is turned into a dumb angry woman caricature - her arc, of trying to find her own voice and purpose amidst a household of narcissistic men, is cast aside in favor of cheap jokes about not 'getting' humans, despite spending five previous seasons being shown as extremely competent with humans. Her and Laszlo's strife this season feels like it is solely in service to Laszlo's arc surrounding his desire for creation/fatherhood while doing nothing to further Nadja's own arc of self actualization. (Side note: I know a lot of people disliked them fighting this season and said it came out of nowhere, but that isn't true; as far back as the Bloody Mary episode, we see Laszlo trying to 'protect' Nadja and her being exasperated with him - the problem this season is that it doesn't feel like Nadja gets any real agency in Laszlo's concern for her. Every time she tries to put up a boundary, he steamrolls over it with grand declarations of his love. It sucks!) Post the Nightclub arc, Nadja's character loses steam and she exists solely to further other character's arcs, while her own goals and dreams and plans are abandoned. Dolly's entire existence was about trying to help Nadja find purpose, something Nadja nor the viewers ever get closure on!

The WWDITS writer's room is seemingly allergic to writing women beyond making them jokes or commodities for men. Despite multiple seemingly self aware meta jokes in series about Nadja hating other women because she is a woman, about the men in the house being misogynistic and obnoxious, the writer's over and over entrench these annoying and backwards and LAZY tropes, all while giving characters like Colin Robinson and Laszlo legitimate arcs and serious moments of personhood and reflection that are not immediately cheapened by a joke. Laszlo has not one but TWO seasons dedicated to working through his daddy issues by becoming a father himself, something that in my humble opinion (while not done perfectly) was clearly given some thought and care that we never really see with Nadja post S3.

So it is no surprise that the Guide is just completely wasted, though it is a shame. An easy to write arc would have been exploring a possible attraction between the Guide and Nadja (once again, a fun foil to Guillermo and Nandor!!) especially because it is clear that the Guide does have feelings for Nadja. In the clipshow in Morrigan Manor, despite all of the Vamily being cruel to her, the only clips are of Nadja. The Guide is eager to run away with Nadja (sorry, Sally!) and she spends all of S4 doing Nadja's bidding for seemingly just her approval. (But of course, the show is allergic to portraying anything gay unless it is a joke, and doubly so for anything even remotely sapphic).

Hell, S6 could have been an arc between the Guide and Nadja becoming legitimate friends and working together to help Guillermo at Cannon; after all, the Guide has spent years working in an 'office' like environment, and Nadja has experience with humans. We saw that they worked fine together during the nightclub era - post Morrigan Manor why not show them growing together and finding a purpose outside of the Council and outside of the Vamily, something that both the Guide and Nadja would benefit from as characters? Why not a female comedy duo, since we always get the men paired together for hijinks?

But that would require treating Nadja and the Guide as characters worthy of arcs, which the writers clearly did not want to do. That would require treating women as people with interiority, which the writers clearly do not.

I give so many props to Natasia for working with bare minimum in later seasons, and clearly trying to give Nadja a sense of self and purpose even when the writers were actively working against it. And I give props to Kristen for making the Guide into a fan favorite despite everything the writers did to make her into a nothing burger. It is a shame and tragedy that even in 2024 on a long running comedy show, the idea of women being funny enough to carry their own stories and arcs is clearly still too farfetched to be brought to reality.

[sabine-smitten-obviously]

And now i don´t need S3 anymore ...

and you need to read this wonderful fanfic:

A lighthouse burning by @books-and-omens

What it is about:

In good weather, one can see the lighthouse at the Rock from the shore: a dot on the horizon, a distant star flashing red and white and red again. It’s been dark for a fortnight, of course—ever since the incident that every newspaper had breathlessly written about, that the paper-boys on the corners had shouted themselves hoarse over. This is where Aziraphale is headed: it is his duty, after all, to find out what happened, to make sure that the beacon can be safely lit once again. He does not expect Crowley to follow him to the windswept isle, to the lonely lighthouse at what could just as well be the edge of the world. Crowley follows him anyway.

What i like about it:

👻It´s a ghost story, it´s spooky and it´s a mystery. It´s the 19th century and dark. And it is set at a lighthouse. All my favorite boxes - check!

🩷The plot - incredibly clever written and it took me quite long to at least have a guess what is really going on. It doesn´t say in the tags so i won´t say any more about it, because it probably would kill the mystery.

🩷The angst - it is layered and comes on 2 different levels, at least for me. Will they make it? (Yes, it is a safe read for all our broken hearts.)

🩷It is rated mature and has some very tender moments.

Most beloved quote ❤️

You remember them, he thought. You remember them, just as I do, and you care. You´ve kept your own watch for six thousand years.

What i really took away from this one:

Crowley remembers so many places, where he met Aziraphale throughout the centuries, its a treasure to read it.

And i realised - no matter how many episodes S3 would have, we would never be able to catch up with 6000 years. It doesn´t matter if we see 90 minutes or 360. It will never be enough.

It will always be up to our minds to imagine what they have seen. The places they have visited. The events they have observed?

That was a very healing thought for me and i can gladly take at least the big finale now being a movie (better than nothing, ey?).

Reading is not an option, its a must.

[emotiondotmp3]

there are so many good polin scenes in s3 but i am obsessed with the one in episode three right before penelope dances with debling for the first time.... pen is all smiles, teasing her FRIEND colin "finally free from your admirers?" but he is TORTURED he is just STARING at her with that longing in his eyes and her smile drops sooooo quickly like dude are you alright... he is NOT alright, he says he needs to ask her a question but mr. 'one-kiss-is-all-it-takes' is HYPNOTIZED by her mouth - after he says that he just STARES AT HER. SILENTLY. WITH THAT LONGING. even PEN could feel the weight of it like what the hell is going on.

AND THE CHERRY ON TOP IS THAT THIS WAS IN A BALLROOM... MAN WAS DOING THIS IN PUBLIC... he forgot how to speak because he wanted to kiss her SO BAD. i wouldn't be surprised if debling didn't interrupt, he would've ruined pen in front of everyone alskdjfoiawejf

[sunflowerdigs]

As many people have pointed out, S8 seems to be S5: Tim's version. There are also callbacks to S3, but the structure seems to mirror S5 (the season it's also speculated that Buddie would have happened if not for Fox).

With that in mind, I've put together some speculation about Buck and Eddie in the back half of s8, based on S5.

I'm anticipating Eddie going through with the El Paso idea in 8x10 like he went through with leaving the 118 in 5x10. Drama, not realism, is the point of the series, so even though Eddie is obviously coming back, I suspect they'll have him leave in a way that seems permanent (and it also sounds like it will affect the whole 118 this time, so that's nice).

Given the show's current set up, Eddie can't stay in El Paso alone for as long as he stayed at Dispatch. Only Peter and Angela are currently getting multi-episode arcs with multiple guest stars attached. Also, El Paso isn't built into the show like Dispatch was. My suspicion is that we'll get one episode (8x11 or 8x12) where Eddie has the B or C storyline and reconnects with Chris as well as talks to Helena and Ramón. I think we'll see him start to realize that LA and the 118 are home for him, and that his own happiness is paramount to taking good care of Chris, so he'll make the choice to bring Chris home.

In the meantime, Buck is going to be dealing with his abandonment issues and with the fact that Eddie's absence has hit him so hard. Now, 911 could easily chicken out here and try to examine the abandonment without going into Eddie specifically (which wouldn't make much storytelling sense if Buddie is indeed where Buck and Eddie's storylines are headed, but would let them drag Buddie out longer 🙄). Either way, as with s5, I'm expecting Buck to make some dumb relationship decision in 8x11 (5x11 kiss with Lucy) and then make some kind of confession about it in either 8x12 or 8x13 (he confessed to Taylor about the kiss in 5x13, but probably would have done so in 5x12 had the Boston episode not happened). The confession could be to whoever he made the dumb romantic choice about or it could be to Maddie (since he confessed to Maddie about the Lucy kiss before he did Taylor). If we're lucky, the confession will be about both his abandonment issues and how he feels about Eddie (his Oh moment, if you will).

And then, right after Buck makes that confession and things are looking more hopeful for him (8x12 or 8x13), he'll get a frantic call from Eddie, telling him that Helena is trying to take full custody of Christopher and may actually be able to do it and he needs Buck's help. This would parallel Christopher's call about Eddie's breakdown in 5x13, but would also be an evolution of it, with Eddie choosing to reach out to Buck rather than break down in a room alone. Buck would burn rubber down to El Paso, and the next episode would be Eddie's big confrontation with Helena, Buck by his side. Imo, having to justify his life in LA to a mediator with custody of Chris on the line might force a level of honesty out of Eddie that he may not be consciously aware of and could kick-start his own feelings realization.

Eddie would win custody with Buck's support in 8x13 or 8x14 (parallel to Buck helping with the horse therapy in 5x14). And then...idk. With both Buck and Eddie in Texas, the show could justify extending the arc there a few more episodes and could let a vengeful Helena kidnap Chris (imo unlikely since 911 seems to like to forgive bad parents). Or Buck and Eddie could return to LA and the 118 with Chris immediately after Eddie gets custody. Either way, I think the show will let feelings between Buck and Eddie percolate for a bit until either the episode before the finale or the finale itself, which will probably be their first kiss (in time for Pride month! If Pride month still happens in America...😬).

[thesiltverses]

I have a couple questions I like to ask after finishing TSV (which by the way was fantastic and I am insanely jealous of your writing/worldbuilding skills!)

1) we have heard singers and bands in the background many times which led me thinking about how the music industry works. Is it a case where it’s a mix of talented people without contracts escaping the spotlight and others who are contracted to music-based gods? Has there ever been a case where someone accidentally or deliberately birthed a god during performances? Do newbies who want to make it big and singers who criticize the current system in their lyrics get sacrificed? I am thinking many things about this topic too much haha

2) In episode 10 of s3 where the god/angel is stalking Faulkner’s dad, its sound design is very similar to Jean Jacket and the abducted horses from Nope. Did you pulled the sound from the movie or am I mishearing?

Thank you so much for listening and these are great questions! In backwards order:

2) No, although good ear - I believe those are distorted horse brays. I was actually cribbing from my favourite movie, Don't Look Now, which features a horrible and wonderful sound somewhere between a horse's scream and a human's scream at a key moment. (Nope's sound design is also impeccable though! I think we instead homaged it in an earlier S3 episode - when the war-saint is attacking the Grace, Alice goes flying up into the sky and then a moment later some keys and coins come scattering down.)

1) I imagine there's a really good storytelling / worldbuilding vein to be mined in terms of what a musician's life looks like in the TSV world, which I honestly just never thought to (probably because we're working with limitations around stock music and the occasional original tune by Skip!).

Because yes, I'm sure you'd have an industry filled with musicians who are essentially under an even more punishing and awful equivalent to real-life pop-group 'morality clauses'. (I can easily imagine that major faiths of all stripes would be bankrolling popular musicians on the sly - so that when the young heart-throb singer-songwriter declares that he's converted to the Church Electric, it feels organic and thousands of his fans do the same.) And then you'd have itinerant artists on the road who maintain their independence but are perhaps more at risk of a Robert Johnson-esque situation where their music and the audience response calls up something stray and hungering.

Although I actually wouldn't picture gods of music (because music is the medium but what is the origin and the outcome?) so much as gods of revolt, yearning, bitterness, decadence...

[bemusedlybespectacled]

Question: I enjoyed s1 OF OFMD, but for various reasons I never actually got around to watching s2 (pick up most of the plot from tumblr tho). What exactly went wrong in s2 that got so many people upset?

Oh, boy. Very long rant incoming.

So, for context, S2 had a significantly smaller budget, which necessitated moving the filming location to union-unfriendly New Zealand, reducing the number of actors/number of appearances of established actors, and cutting down the number of episodes from 10 to 8. In a show where each episode is only about half an hour long, that last one alone was enough to seriously hamper any character development or plot. I am very comfortable putting the vast majority of the blame on HBO because of these financial decisions.

The short version is that Jenkins et. al. needed to address and build on the problems left hanging in S1 while also getting the characters to the end of their character trajectories in case there was no S3 while also leaving room for additional episodes in case there was a S3, in a grand total of four hours, and failed.

The long version is that there were a bunch of what I'd consider small problems in isolation that came together and exploded in the S2 finale.

The reduced cast necessitated breaking up the crew (ex: having Swede marry Jackie and stay on land with her, so they don't need to pay Nat Faxon for all eight episodes) and not spending as much time on their relationships as S1 did.

The reduced time meant that the entire season was rushed (in contrast to S1, which takes place over at least several weeks if not months, most of S2 takes place in roughly five days), leading both to a lot of telling rather than showing (because they don't have time to show you), including vital character and relationship development.

This includes:

Having the Kraken half of the crew beat Ed to death after months of being abused by him – abuse that is clearly shown to have given them PTSD and a well-justified fear and hatred of him – only for them to be okay with him two in-universe days later;

On that note, having Stede dismiss the crew's concerns about Ed because he loves him and also we only have three more episodes left to fit in everything so we need to get over it really fast, even though Stede is supposed to be well-meaning and caring (even if he's not good at it all the time);

Resolving the issue of Stede abandoning Ed in one day, then having them "go slowly" in their relationship for two days and then have some spur-of-the-moment sex, and then the next afternoon have them break up over their diverging career aspirations, and then the day after that resolve that problem and retire on land while the rest of the crew sails off into the sunset;

Stede becoming a fantastic pirate captain over the course of one day, becoming wildly popular in the piracy world two days later, and then deciding the day after that to never be a captain again because he is retiring with Ed;

Having Ed and Stede decide to retire together as what is implied to be the end point of their relationship arc, when none of Stede's issues from S1, like his poor self-esteem, have been so much as mentioned by anyone, implying that he's either magically gotten over them or they don't matter all that much, actually, even though they were the catalyst for basically everything he did in S1;

Ed having two separate character crises – "I am an unlovable person" and "I want to do something with my life other than piracy" – not spending a lot of time on either one, having moments that clearly indicate he is still working on both problems and they have not been resolved, and then apparently having them both be resolved in the final episode despite nothing occurring to actually make that happen, and in regards to the latter, despite the story actively undermining it by repeatedly showing he can't do anything other than piracy;

Related to the above, Ed ending the series as allegedly being loved by the crew as a family (thus solving Crisis #1) despite this never actually being shown, demonstrated, or even fucking alluded to onscreen. If anything, it shows the exact opposite.

This last point is especially galling to me because of what is probably the most divisive issue in the fandom right now: killing off Izzy Hands after giving him seven episodes of character development.

The show begins with the Kraken crew clearly trying to use the skills they learned as part of Stede's crew to cope with their incredibly shitty situation and care for each other, which includes Izzy. Izzy, on his end, tries to protect the crew and speak up for them, which results in him being repeatedly hurt (both implicitly, as Ed at one point says "that's another toe" in response to Izzy advocating for the crew and we later see he's missing more than one toe already, and explicitly, as Ed shoots him in the fucking leg in front of the crew when he stands up for them).

This camaraderie is shown again and again and again. Frenchie, Jim, and Archie take care of Izzy while his leg is infected, at risk to their own lives. Izzy's misery over losing his leg is what unites the PTSD-ridden Kraken crew and the well-meaning-but-ignorant-of-PTSD marooned crew, who are initially at odds, to make him a new prosthetic leg. Izzy gives Lucius advice about forgiving Ed. Izzy is introduced to drag and opens up enough to sing at a crew party, and the whole crew is having fun together while Ed and Stede are in their cabin having sex for the first time. Izzy gives Stede pirate captain lessons and bonds with him when Ed leaves him. Izzy provokes the season's villain into focusing on him and then gives a big speech about how piracy is about belonging to something, giving the rest of the crew time to try to escape.

Recall that Season 1 had some pretty well-established universe rules, one of which was that it runs on Muppet physics/magical realism. People can jump off yardarms, hit the side on the way down, and be perfectly fine. People can get stabbed in the liver and it's totally okay because it's probably not that important, and even can stay pinned to a mast all night that way with only mild discomfort. Buttons can talk to birds and see long distances without a spyglass and put hexes on people. Good people can be hurt (Stede is stabbed repeatedly), bad people can die (the Badmintons, Geraldo), but no one we care about is ever killed.

This is repeated in Season 2: Ed is beaten into a coma with a cannonball and wakes up like Sleeping Beauty after a spirit journey, with no injuries to his face or body. Buttons turns into a seagull after spending an episode doing a magic ritual and is never seen again (because they couldn't keep paying Ewen Bremner due to the budget cuts). Jackie microdoses her husbands with poison to build up their immunity, so that she can later pull a Dread Pirate Westley and poison the British with shared drinks.

So: in the finale, the villain of the season is taken hostage by the pirates (for reasons? unclear how that fits in the plan), happens to have a gun on him (no one checked??), shoots Izzy on the right side and then leaves with no repercussions. The entire crew stands around silently doing nothing while Ed cries over Izzy and tells him that he's his only family.

And Izzy fucking Hands, the guy who just spent eight episodes bonding with and protecting everyone, uses his last words to reassure Ed that him becoming Blackbeard/the Kraken was Izzy's fault and that the crew is Ed's family and they all love him. No one else says anything to Izzy or tries to comfort him or help him in any way.

I repeat: in a show predicated on the idea that bullies and bigots die stupid deaths while queer people and POC are basically magic, a show that was praised for being kind to queer people by not making them worry about their faves suffering or dying, a show founded on the strength of the relationships between the characters, the guy who went through a season-long arc of learning to embrace his pirate found family and his own queerness is shot for stupid reasons on the side we're told isn't important and dies while everyone just stands there. His last words are about the whole crew loving Ed when the only person that the whole crew has loved all season is him.

Anyway, never mind all that, let's cut to Lucius and Pete getting married and Stede and Ed retiring!

Complicating all this is that people who liked Izzy (or even said anything insufficiently mean about Izzy) were harassed for months in between seasons with insults, slurs, and actual fucking death threats. Izzy's growth was kind of a vindication for liking him: it meant that, despite all the harassment, we were right to like him and care about him as a character. Even people who didn't like him initially started to like him during Season 2.

And then he dies, and now there's a bunch of people saying that Izzy fans are big whiny babies who can't handle fictional death, and actually his death was so meaningful and beautiful and the only logical end to his arc, and it can't be bad writing because people die in real life all the time, and also he admitted he fed Ed's darkness so actually he was a terrible person all along anyway and they were right to hate him (and his fans)!

So, yeah, there are a lot of reasons why it's so hated, and I'm probably only addressing the problems of the pro-Izzy people (from what I can tell, BlackBonnet shippers who don't like Izzy think Ed and Stede's relationship is fine and dandy, but I'm sure that there are other criticisms they have that I have not addressed). I'm not even addressing the issues with Jim and Oluwande's relationship this season (and whooo boy are there issues).

It wasn't a universally bad season. There were episodes I really loved and still do. But the finale was a train wreck, and because it was a train wreck, a lot of people are looking back at what happened before the wreck and realizing that, oh, the train lost its brakes and steering because of the budget cuts and the engineers kept throwing fuel in the engine to make it go faster, and huh, now that I think of it, that part earlier in the trip was really wobbly but I didn't pay much attention to it at the time because I was sure the engineers had everything covered.

[actual-changeling]

I have written many meta posts and s3-theories, and read even more, but I got hit by an idea I have not seen before. (If there is another post, please link it!)

After vibrating for an hour and losing my mind in my dms, I have no scraped together enough brain cells to present what is probably my first actual 'main-plot meta'.

Welcome to another edition of Alex's unhinged meta corner, today with a title to honour Crowley's James Bond obsession and the possibility of another heaven heist.

I give you:

From Jesus with Love - You Will Live Twice

Now, let's get right into it.

I think Neil might have told us more about the main s3 plotline in the announcement article than we previously thought. We all got stuck on 'they're not talking'—for good reason—but it is the part before that which has been bugging me ever since then.

The plans are going wrong—and this time that is a problem for earth and humanity. Turning that around, it means that whatever that plan consists of would be the way to go and beneficial for everyone, the opposite of the main plot of s1.

"They need to prevent the Second Coming (SC)" is pretty much the only and most popular idea I have seen, hundreds of fics and metas and whatnot have been written about it, but I think there's a good chance we're wrong. If we're not, well, I will honestly just be happy to be watching season 3.

Whatever the Metatron is planning will have negative consequences for everyone, or as Michael puts it: "And so… it ends. Everything ends. Time and the world is over, and we begin Eternity… forever and ever."

It sounds very much like Apocalypse #1 - Same Old Plan, same expected result, yet if we look at different interpretations of scripture we find that the SC is not entirely about complete destruction and death for all of humanity—it is about creating a new world/migrating to the kingdom of God.

This is taken from the Wikipedia article about the SC

Resurrection and life in a world to come are a direct contradiction to the result Michael is explaining—total annihilation of humanity.

Now, I am neither religious in any way nor have I ever received any sort of biblical education. Luckily, Christians seem to love talking about the bible because there are dozens of bible website to wade through. If I get anything wrong, please point it out, I have never touched a bible in my life.

So, after reading many, many quotes by a bunch of different guys, I tried to create a somewhat coherent picture of what the SC might look like based on the assumption that the end result is positive. I will talk about how they can be interpreted more in-depth later, otherwise this would turn into a string-net very fast.

Additionally, we can also see where these points overlap with the statement Jimbriel gave in the bookshop in episode three.

What is Jesus' job description?

only God knows when and how exactly it will begin/happen, no one else does, including Jesus and the Metatron

a lot of different catastrophes are mentioned or quoted as something Jesus said, like earthquakes and storms -> Jimbriel mentioned a tempest and great storms

there is also the line "All these are the beginning of birth pains." Birth pains dictate that there will be a birth—birth of the world to come perhaps?

dead people will be resurrected/leave their graves so that they too can be judged (I'd say participate in it but that sounds like the Second Coming is a summer camp activity)

there are also mentions of stars and the heavens in general falling from the sky and the sun going dark -> Jimbriel also mentions darkness as one of the signs

great lamentations, as Jimbriel says, are also a part of many different passages, with humans mourning the world as it was

the Lord will descent with the voice of an Archangel and the sound of a trumpet/the trumpet of God; the grammatical structure of that sentence seems to be interpreted differently depending on who you ask, but the voices of angels/an Archangel and some sort of trumpet are common terms

once everyone is in heaven/wherever the 'main even' will take place, a judgement call will be made for every single person in relation to the book of life, which decides whether they will be punished forever or not (one passage talks about a lake of fire and mentions it several times in a row)

And this is where it gets tricky. To figure out what the SC looks like, we first need to understand a) what the Metatron's capabilities are, b) what he has to lose, and c) what exactly would be a threat to him.

If you ask me, all of this comes down to the Metatron wanting to stay and be in power for eternity with full control over angels so he can do as he please, aka keeping the system running as it is.

We know the book of life (bol) is a thing in the Good Omens universe, whether it does what Michael said is an entirely different question. So far, we have also only got confirmation that hell collects and tortures souls—in such large amounts that they are understaffed—while heaven looks completely empty.

The Metatron runs heaven as an institution, he seems to be the highest power any of the angels have access to and the one they defer to. He refers to himself as the voice of God and combines judge, jury and executioner, making him one great celestial dictator.

From what we know of hell, they do things a lot more democratically, having different councils, dukes, and ranks that are responsible for different levels of command.

We also know that that the Metatron wants the world to end, his goals can probably be summarized as the statement Michael makes, which would leave him in charge without any opposing forces.

We also also know that he sees Crowley and Aziraphale as a threat—why exactly remains a mystery for now—and that the success of his plan hinges on having a Supreme Archangel (SA) he can control. Gabriel decided to become princess of hell and Beez' sugar baby, so he was out of the equation, and after the Armageddon disaster, I don't think he wants to risk failing because of an unfamiliarity with earth (plus, y'know, getting our two idiots away from the plan).

It's interesting to me that right at the end, he says to Aziraphale "We call it the Second Coming"—call, not it is or it will be, CALL. We know that nothing Neil writes is a coincidence, definitely not with such an important line.

Just because you CALL something a specific name doesn't mean it IS what you call it, e.g. Aziraphale calls Crowley a foul fiend when we know he very much isn't.

The Metatron is selling his plan as part of the "Great/Ineffable Plan", so any questions can be blocked by saying it's God's will, it's ineffable. Whatever his plan is, he hides it behind the concept of the Second Coming, which angels know just enough about to understand the basics without having in-depth knowledge of what exactly it entails.

It is a good fucking strategy, I'll give him that, and it WORKS because angels—even if they have doubts—do not question. They simply don't; fear of punishment and millennia of conditioning have left them in a horrible place. When they encounter something unknown, their response is "I already knew that" as to not ask questions.

Crowley questions, we know that, and Aziraphale, ohhhhh, Aziraphale ALSO questions, but he does it in a less dangerous and obvious way. The Metatron is vastly underprepared for that.

(Side note: That alone would be its own meta post, but the gist is that he questions heaven's plans and then adjusts his assumptions of what God might want to what he WANTS God to want, e.g. Job, the Arch)

To summarize everything I just said, the Metatron wants to do what Armageddon failed to do—destroy earth and the universe—so he can be supreme dictator of all remaining celestial beings and gorge himself on power.

But instead of calling it his Big Evil Plan, he calls it the Second Coming, making everyone play along without resistance.

We cycle aaaaall the way back to the sentence I quoted—the ACTUAL plans are going wrong since the Metatron's would mean total destruction.

But what is the SC supposed to be if not the Apocalypse 2.0?

When I look at all the different aspects of the SC and assume a positive outcome, then the end result to me would be a new world that is pretty much like the old world, or maybe even literally the old world but with any destruction reversed. Heaven and hell get dissolved since now that everyone has been "judged", they as institutions are no longer needed, they have fulfilled their purpose.

No more judgement means there is no reason to keep track anymore, so why do you need to run celestial corporations whose only job is doing exactly that? You don't—and THAT is what I believe is the biggest perceived threat to the Metatron, losing full control over everyone and everything, losing his position, his title, and whatever else he has.

On top of that, Good Omens has told us again and again that God doesn't seem to give a fuck about good and evil anymore, and that without heaven and hell being all wrapped up in it, humanity would have 100% free will without any consequences.

Maybe the BoL is empty, maybe it isn't real, maybe Jesus stole it to straighten a wobbly table, who knows. There is a chance it is what Michael says, but I would admittedly find that a bit. too obvious and boring since it would boil the plot down to "they save their own asses again" and not "they save humanity at all cost".

Regarding Crowley and Aziraphale's role in this—I have Thoughts TM but those definitely need their own post. In short, they have to get the SC back on track, the real one.

-

If you have made it this far, thank you for working through what I hope are more or less coherent rambles. Any spelling or grammar mistakes are my own.

Questions? Thoughts? Corrections? Expansions and additions?

Feel free to add to this post however you like (and I can't believe I have to mentions this but if you clown on my post or behave like an asshole you will be blocked).

[outmakingmoonshine]

I was just writing a post about the Carmy/Faks scene & how it's really just Carmy talking to himself. For this scene the two Faks represent his inner voices/subconscious (which might only apply to this scene idk), but then I decided to see what all these scenes looked like together and wow am I glad I did!! Seeing these 4 scenes side by side is very interesting.

The first two scenes in 3x05 & 3x07 mirror each other, the last two scenes in 3x09 mirror each other and all 4 of them tell their own story together. The first scene is Carmy's talking to himself but shouting & aiming it at anyone who's listening. The 2nd is Syd talking to herself but mostly mumbling so only she can hear. In the Faks scene Carmy's having an "imaginary" conversation out loud with two people, just like Syd's doing in the last scene rehearsing what she might say to both Adam Shapiro and Carmy.

And if you rearrange these scenes & put the first 2 after the Faks scene, if we saw/heard those sarcastic "that makes sense" comments after we saw the "Claire is peace" scene in that exact same location, it would've been a lot easier to figure out what they're really referring to!

There are lots of layers to unpack here but I'm gonna talk about the main things that jump out at me. This is probably gonna be a bit chaotic with different ideas and breakdowns of what things could mean so I hope it's not too confusing. Anyone else feel free to jump in with your thoughts.

Below the cut

Notice how in all these scenes, except one, Carmy and Syd are alone talking out loud to themselves, vocalizing their inner thoughts. Mute the video and just read the subtitles if you need to. The scene with the Faks reads like a conversation with imaginary friends or like the two funny inner voices of a character in a comedy movie. All these scenes are like they're from a comedy movie tbh.

In the first two scenes Carmy & Syd act the same way they both deal with their problems (Carmy shouting about it to anyone who'll listen and Syd pissed but mostly keeping it quiet/to herself). They're the only ones actually inside the dumpster in all the scenes which makes me think it represents their minds and the boxes are the mental chaos & thoughts they're trying to sort through. The Faks are technically outside Carmy's mind/the dumpster so they don't speak from the mind or for the mind but they're close to it, communicating with it & "helping" sort through the chaos. Maybe the dumpster represents the conscious mind and the Faks are Carmy's subconscious. It sounds like The Faks are encouraging Carmy to fall back into his base programming, which people often tend to do when they're lost and don't know what to do. They're trying to convince him to call Claire bc Carmy's base programming from his family is "Claire is good". That's what safe to him bc it's a "truth" he's always known & believed. Idk there's many possibilities. It's also Interesting how later this episode The Faks go to Claire and speak directly for Carmy like they know for sure what he's thinking & feeling.

Lets get into the dialogue of the first two scenes:

"[Carmy] That makes sense. [box clatters] Boxes full of bullshit. Put it on the f*cking list. Oh, it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it."

Just a side note: The next line in the script is "I don't know wha-what I'm supposed to do with all this stuff" from Marcus in the next scene where he's clearing out all his mum's stuff with Syd.

"[Syd] 'Cause why would you do it? I mean, you're supposed to do it. This is-- This is fine. This is good. This makes sense. This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking-- Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"

I don't even know where to start, there's so many ways to read this!

Carmy said one specific thing in the Faks scene that very clearly "didn't make sense"...Claire is peace. He knows that's not true but I think the point is he's been avoiding thinking about who his peace actually is all S3*. Carmy & Syd are both sarcastically saying "that makes sense" like it's subtly referring to that scene later in the same place. Was the panic attack scene by the same dumpsters? Idk someone let me know please.

*Carmy said in 3x07 he tries to avoid thinking about legacy. The only legacy we know of is the one he's trying to build with Syd both professionally and personally. His realization that Syd's brings him peace in the panic attack in 2x09 is the reality of his legacy that he's been trying to avoid all S3. He's working to get her his star and creating dishes inspired by her so Syd's cearly on his mind but the one thing he should be thinking about and talking to her about, he's avoiding.

There are many different layers of possible meaning and/or foreshadowing in this dialogue, but one layer it can be read is how they're both thinking/feeling about the Claire situation bc even tho Syd didn't mention it all season it's still there between them. Maybe none of this is about Claire, but if it was:

Carmy: "[sarcastically] that makes sense"...claire is "peace". "Boxes full of bullsh*t"...he's full of bullshit that Claire's his peace?!! Or maybe Claire is in the boxes of bullshit aka his baggage and past trauma he needs to sort through? "Put it on the "f*cking list"...put Claire on the list of his stress & baggage? And a very sarcastic "Oh it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it." He'll do what he's "supposed to do" with Claire & call her/apologize/maybe even be with her even tho it clearly sounds like he doesn't want to..?? He's "got it"...even though he clearly doesn't. "It's good" but she's clearly not The Good Thing™.

Syd: "Cause why wouldn't you do it? I mean you're supposed to do it"...why won't carmy just sort himself out? why wont he just call claire/be with claire since Syd thinks that's what he wants & she acts in front of him like "it's not her place to be [beside him on a personal level]" almost direct quote from her in 3x09. She's probabaly confused why Carm just wont be with Claire. From Syd's perspective he changed his mind about her and chose Claire in S2, so the next logical step is he'd be with Claire. "This is fine. This is good. This makes sense."...carmy saying claire is peace & also probably how she'll react out loud if carmy/claire get back together. "This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking--"...this is how she really feels about the whole Claire situation & Carmy just ditching her & "changing shit" (that came up a lot this season), which ultimately led to him not treating her like a partner in their professional relationship. "Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"...a direct lead in to Carmy's scene in the exact same place 2 episodes later.

Sydney's dialogue in 3x07 scene also reads like a run-on of Carmy's dialogue in 3x05, continuing his thoughts trying to convince himself of what he should do with Claire but he's panicking so he calls for the Fak's, his imaginary friends/inner voices, who are there with him the next time we see him in that spot. From the dialogue it makes sense but idk if we've ever seen the show do that with Syd before so idk. Sydney is clearly definied as her own character but she is definied as a mirror of Carmy too so it's a possibility.

Of course this is all interpretation, some or none of this could be directly about Claire but idk. The location (esp if it's in the same place he had the 2x09 panic attack), all the "coincidental" dialogue, the way all these scenes tie together...and with the panic attack scene and the opposing realizations Carmy comes to about Syd & Claire in 2x09 & 3x09. It wasn't a "realization" about Claire in 3x09, he didn't even look like he believed what he was saying tbh. It looked like he just made it up on the spot.

It's also interesting that these scenes by the dumpsters are the quivalent of S1 & 2's walk in scenes where both Syd & Carmy go for a moment of peace to clear their thoughts and "cool off". We don't see those this season but we do get these which is more like them sorting out all the chaotic thoughts & feelings inside them, separating the "trash" from the good stuff, "the bad from the good" like Carmy said he wanted/needed to do to achieve his legacy in 3x07.

In the Faks scene listen to all the "we" and "us" talk;

"If we did it when it was scheduled. We do though. We do it, Carm. All we do is break down boxes. We break 'em down and we have to do it again. Who would wanna haunt us? Who's pissed at us? Sammy's pissed at us."

Until Claire is mentioned (a sobering thought for Carmy) and it's suddenly "Not us. Just you. Not us." Reality hit for a moment and the imaginary friends want to separate themselves from him because they're not "real" & they didn't upset Claire so she can't be mad at them. I think Carmy is the only "real" one in this scene. The Faks are the imaginary friends/inner voices that seem like they're helping the main character but they're really just causing more chaos and leading him down the wrong path because they're misunderstanding what he wants based on what he's forcing himself to think about; Claire. (I lowkey think Carmy's forcing memories of Claire to stop himself from thinking about Sydney.)

The transition of Carmy talking to himself with The Fak's representing two parts of his mind aka "two minds" going straight into Syd talking to herself & voicing out loud what she'd say to both Shapiro and Carmy like she's having a mental conversation with two different people and that she's in "two minds". "I wanted to start off by saying I'm grateful" sounds formal and directed at Adam Shapiro. "Ok so I wanted to talk to you..." sounds more personal and directed at Carmy. It's a similar concept of being in two minds used in a slightly different context but in this show and the writing specifically, context is all over the place anyway.

Also the transition into the Syd scene is to drive home the point that Carmy was just having a conversation with himself, trying to convince himself that Claire is peace, she's "good" etc. For this scene (and possibly this scene only) Theodore is the stubborn part of Carmy that doesn't like to be pushed around who thinks stuff like "Yeah but I'd see his ass" about Sammy Fak. And you know there's a part of Carmy that would have that attitude but the conscious part of him is smarter than that. Neil is the more sweet, anxious side of Carmy that is kind of "away with the fairies" a little bit, in his own head a lot. Carmy is the regular, conscious, "real" Carmy trying to figure out the mental mess he's in.

I think transitioning into that Syd scene was also to callback to the only other times Syd or Carmy spoke aloud to themselves. I might be forgetting something but I think all these scenes are the only times we see either of them have full conversations with themselves out loud in S3..? Someone let me know if that's wrong please.

Side note- From one perscpective: Carmy's reaction to Theodore calling Claire "a piece of ass" was so...unaffected??! Could you imagine if someone said that about Syd?? He bit Richie's head off for calling her "sweetheart" in 1x01 and physically put himself between them so I can't imagine he'd take it that lightly if it was about Syd...From another perpective, if this scene is all about Carmy's inner thoughts, is he asking himself if that's how he sees Claire? I don't think he does intentionally but it's a valid question considering the show seems to use physical intimacy as a substitute for any real connection between them. If Claire & Carmy never kissed or had sex, would anyone see that relationship as a romance?? I really don't think so tbh, the physical initmacy is the only thing about their scenes that confirms it's supposed to be seen as a romance. Meanwhile SydCarmy are drowning in real connection before any physical intimacy.

Anyone please feel free to jump in and add your thoughts, I'd love to know your perspectives on seeing all these scenes together @thoughtfulchaos773 @sydcarmyfan @yannaryartside @currymanganese @vacationship @afrofairysblog @greekyogurttragedy @tvfantic87 @moodyeucalyptus @gingergofastboatsmojito @ambeauty @whenmemorydies @brokenwinebox and anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome to.

[neyafromfrance95]

what's wrong with haladriel tag today? everyone is spreading hate or getting baited by the antis. doom and gloom. only a few posts are of the shippers goofing or discussing the ep in a way that doesn't feel like the show ended haladriel for good.

yeah, idk. i try to not scroll down the tag nowadays. i finished the episode and it was fine to me. i understand everyone's complaints and frustrations as i myself wished for sauron to see galadriel being in captivity at least (and my main issue is galadriel's shortened screentime), but i feel like we might be overreacting a bit and ruining our own shipping experience?

what saddens me the most is that i don't see the fan creations getting appreciated. the shippers would make great gifsets, edits, art - no reblogs. write fics - no comments or kudos. maybe the fandom is still small but i look at the stuff from s1 and it had so much more interaction and encouragement from other shippers.

even the metas from s1 aren't all about "when will celeborn appear and can galadriel be shipped with sauron when she is married to celeborn?" it seems like haladriels didn't give a f about that forced discourse back then and were just wholly enjoying the ship.

as i've said, i think elrond kiss is not the worst thing for haladriels. it might indicate that celeborn won't be introduced (yet), so galadriel won't have to "go back to being his wife". elrond/galadriel won't turn any more romantic than this, at most it will be ambiguous. and they might be testing the waters for how the audiences react to canon divergence. if elrond can be galadriel's jacob, why can't sauron be her edward?

listen, so many of the most iconic ships have never kissed or were never officially a couple. if the dynamic is shippable then why stop shipping just bc a season doesn't go exactly as the fans wanted it to go in their wildest dreams? we still have s3, there still might be the mind-palace communication explored in s3. after all we know the whole show was inspired by the idea that sauron ever so gropes to see galadriel and at some point galadriel closes the door on him but he still allows her to roam his mind freely!

+ this season still was like a continuation of sauron and galadriel mirroring each other, it confirmed that galadriel has feelings for sauron and that sauron is obsessed with her. there is still one ep left where this slow-burn build-up is supposed to climax.

my point is, let's try to be more positive? and being positive isn't necessarily confined to being delulu. it means creating fan content or hyping up fan creations, it means taking what we get in the episodes and dissecting it with passion, engaging with analysis, having fun!

i have been in many other fandoms and i know that a fandom can't be longevous if it's sustained on frustration and negativity and discourse 80% of the time.

for what's it worth, let's let the creators know that we want haladriel, not that we hate the show the same way the lorebros hate it. yk?

[markantonys]

i was caught super off-guard by the reveal that the wondergirls will in fact return to the white tower at the start of s3, because i'd long assumed there surely wouldn't be time for that. my gut reaction was to be Not Thrilled about it, due to worrying that it would mean spending too long rehashing s2 territory rather than moving on to the next phase of the girls' stories, but having mulled it over, i now see many reasons to be excited about it! naturally, lots of them are gawyn-related <3 and "letting characters spend precious time together before they're separated for the next 10 books"-related

GAWENE!!!!!!!!!! gawene gawene gawene!!!!!! it was always a point of sorrow for me that my prior s3 structure theories couldn't fit in any gawene time beyond "maaaaaybe they could have a brief meeting in caemlyn if the waste-bound gang makes a pitstop there", but now they might get to have multiple scenes across multiple episodes! they might have a chance to build a solid initial emotional connection before the story takes them apart for a while! i am literally overjoyed at the prospect!

in addition to this being good for me, it's also good for the story and for rand's future romantic endeavors. egwene ALSO showing sparks of interest in a new person (especially if said new person is a cute prince who worships the ground she walks on - yes this is the truth of who gawyn is, you all don't know him like i do) will do wonders to sell show-onlys on a Final Randgwene Breakup. we need to see that egwene and rand are BOTH moving on from each other and BOTH ready to leave their romance in the past and start new relationships.

it's also important for later, because gawyn's future storyline hinges on him feeling emotionally attached enough to egwene to be willing to desert his own army to help her

guys imagine egwene meeting gawyn for the first time AFTER all her damane trauma instead of before........i could totally imagine her feeling uneasy or stifled around nynaeve and elayne for a little while because they look at her with such pity and guilt over what happened and being with her old friends reminds her too painfully of how much she's changed as a person after what she's been through, but gawyn is a brand-new post-trauma friend, he doesn't know any version of her but the one before him now, he doesn't know what happened to her, he doesn't feel sorry for her, he's not constantly trying to apologize to her or ask if she's okay or tiptoe around her, and thus spending time with him allows her to just feel Normal again. i'm emotional!!!!

anyway

more tower time will also allow proper wondergirls trio time! we didn't really have it in s2 since nynaeve & elayne didn't become close until after egwene was captured, and we won't have much time for it in the future since they'll be split up for a lot of the story, so getting a couple episodes now with them as a full trio will be wonderful.

and more specifically, more time for the egwene-elayne friendship! they were so sweet in s2, but didn't get a TON of time actually together, and they might not see each other in person much for the rest of the series (though TAR zoom calls might be plentiful), so i'll be thrilled to see them get to hang out a little at the beginning of the season. and especially to see egwene's end of the friendship and see her affirming how much she cares for elayne, after the back half of s2 treated us to a lot of elayne's end of it and her devotion to egwene.

trakand siblings!!! another big point of sorrow for me in my previous theorizing was that elayne wouldn't get to actually interact with her brothers except for perhaps in a flashback cold open (i'd imagined elayne would go straight to tanchico from falme & the bros would show up at the white tower looking for her). but now, we will get to see all three of them together! we'll get to see the full sibling dynamic! and considering that they might never be all three together in one place again (depending on how the show maneuvers people around), this will be invaluable.

it will also help the brothers' characterizations & storylines to see how they interact with elayne and how that later results in desperation to keep her safe & get answers on her whereabouts leading them towards some questionable decisions

egwene taking her accepted test early in the season (potentially even in the first episode?) could be a very handy vehicle for showing the audience where her headspace is at in the wake of all her s2 trauma. i'd imagine her test scenes will be Accepted Test: Abridged Version since we already dove so deeply into it with nynaeve, but something like the seanchan as her past trauma in arch 1 and romance with rand as the piece of home she needs to let go of in arch 2 could be done as quick but effective scenes to show us what she's wrestling with internally at the moment.

and getting more egwene-siuan interactions will be very fun! seeing how the wondergirls might feel about siuan after hearing of her Attempted Randnapping (if they do hear about it from rand and moiraine, two people who are famous for not telling anyone things) would be interesting.

possible elayne accepted test giving us insight into her character? i won't bank on it since 3 onscreen accepted tests might be excessive, but at the very least we might get a scene like the books where she and egwene are both shaken after their tests and nynaeve comforts them, and perhaps elayne tells them a bit about what she saw in the arches.

also! if mat is also involved in some early-season tower shenanigans, then of course this means getting the mat-gawyn-galad fight, which means i can finally realize my long-held dream of putting the text post "guy frantically looking up 'i think i like men' on his phone immediately after losing a fight with another man" onto a relevant screencap of gawyn. this is crucial stuff, people! and i will in general be delighted to see any potential mat-gawyn interactions. soon it will be time to prepare my Unexpected Ships bingo card for s3!

[moomstersnuffer]

I have some crazy conspiracy theories:

I always get this really strange, really disappointed, really let down feeling(depression am i right)when I actually stop and think about the relationship dynamics in Moominvalley. I mean, there are so many people who wholeheartedly believe in and support Snufmin but does anyone realize that if they were made canon, it would likely be more unusual and out of the norm for Moominvalley than it would be for our world of reality?

Let's start with the og crew: Moominpapa(Moomintroll's father), the Joxter(Snufkin's father), and the Muddler(Sniff's father). They were a trio of good friends going on adventures and then you look at their children and see how they too are a trio of good friends(I can't assume for two of them though...)going on adventures. Generally, I feel like Moominpapa and Joxter are the ones talked about the most and that's certainly true of Moomintroll and Snufkin as well, although we do love our Muddler and Sniff.

Then you look at what happened after their adventure days were over. They all got married(well most of them anyways) and found girls to love and had children. That's the norm. That's what's expected. That's their childrens' fate.

In the eyes of the kids who watch the show, Moomintroll and Snorkmaiden are soulmates. They’re the perfect couple. They'll end up like Moominmama and Moominpapa. And hopefully, Sniff and Snufkin will find someone too. I mean, I don't how many of you have even heard of the Snufkin and Alicia ship. I don't like it but that would be the norm...I guess. Sorry I really don't like that ship :/

It's never even implied or mentioned ever but I just feel like the unmentioned norm would be expected from like, everyone.

However, I think there’s more hope for the future now since it's now implied that Sniff doesn't really feel romantic feelings for anyone. I think it's safe to even mention that Snorkmaiden isn't a moomin like Moomintroll's parents both are(I mean it's another difference between generations to pin my delusions to)And despite that weird ship with Alicia, I doubt there's anyone on Snufkin’s radar except Moomintroll.

That brings this whole spiel to an even sadder conspiracy: Snufkin is the only one of the two who harbors romantic feelings.

I can't name certain instances because I have short term memory loss but I think this a very plausible theory. There really isn't a romantic interest for Snufkin in the series unless you count when his own step sis tried to get with him in the anime(like wtf was that?) Anyways, Moomintroll, on the other hand, has Snorkmaiden. My thing is, he either loves Snufkin platonically or he realizes he feels something more but doesn't want to break the social norm and disappoint people.

it's gotta be one of those two and since i'm a shipper I gotta lean toward the latter.

(I actually tried writing a fanfic about this a few months ago but I dropped it temporarily. I think I'll pick it up soon because I did like it I just got insecure lol)

But really all i'm doing here is throwing words in your face because I rewatched some s2-s3 episodes and got mad all over again. So yeah.

That's all I have to say today. I honestly think I say more on this site than I do in real life which is really sad but that's life these days. Nobody around to talk to about this stuff except you guys.

Thanks for reading whoever ended up reading this! I'm sorry if I left you more confused than you were before.

'Night, tumblr

[edibleashell]

TUA S4 feels

Pretty sure that Umbrella Academy S4 finale left a permanent scar on my psyche. Still one of my favorite shows but I might just end after season 3 in future rewatches. So many issues with S4.

In like episode 1 we got Ben and Jennifer touching and that started a countdown to the end of the world and the whole season was just junk to fill that time. So many good ideas that weren't done properly at all. Shuffling their powers? Alternate timelines? Hargreaves owning pretty much everything? Abigail just being alive? Pointless.

Luther was just a repeating loop of stripper and home decorating jokes.

Diego should have been a martial arts instructor or something not a depressed delivery guy. A bunch of jokes about him getting out of shape only to reveal that he's still jacked. He throws a potted plant and misses. His arc is just Big Sad for no reason and the relationships he built in the first three seasons were apparently irrelevant, if anyone would have been taking care of Safety Klaus it would have been him.

Allison's character was just an accessory to Klaus, after three seasons of her trying to reclaim the family she lost she ended up spending more time as a tool to Klaus's arc than she did with Claire. And Ray just being casually written out was so disrespectful.

Klaus, oh poor Klaus, my favorite character, what did they do to you? He should have been a nurse or something but instead he was paranoid, then pissed off because the writers decided that Klaus would equate marigold with drugs and just fall right off the wagon? And then he goes to some sketchy guy he owes money to even though S1 Klaus is shown just buying drugs from random people? All to justify his prisoner plot, none of which had any real impact. And he can fly for a second for some reason. Okay.

Five working for the CIA was bad. He should have been the retired fun uncle to Claire and Grace. After spending fifty years trying to get back to his family why did he keep leaving them? Why did he hook up with his brother's wife after only six years? And am I supposed to believe that in every timeline he has the same haircut? That none of the other Fives lost their arm? How did he never notice his boss's blatant umbrella tattoo? He just casually strolls through "his" apocalypse as though he doesn't have ptsd, and why were he and Lila living off sewer rats when they had infinite timelines to scavenge?

I was so excited to see Ben witg the family but one episode in he becomes a bomb and fucks off with a girl who can hardly be called a character.

Viktor was the only character I thought got some form of authenticity and justified growth, his arc kind of seemed like a ripoff of S3 Klaus though. And we missed out on what could have been a really beautiful scene of him drawing the upside down umbrella on his arm.

Lila went from "I don't want to be like my mom" to a motherhood cliche. And what was the deal with her family? She just found her parents and they immediately accepted her or something? Was there another Lila in this universe? That made no sense. If anyone would have joined the CIA it would have been her. Her and Diego should have been weird parents teaching their kids how to fight and kill but instead they got some domestic life that those characters never belonged in.

And there's so much more! Abigail is alive? Hardly relevant. Why did she body snatched Gene, it didn't really seem to change anything. The Keepers existed only to be a minor obstacle in the last episode. And are her and Reggie aliens? Why? How? What's the point?

AND DURANGO? THAT'S A CAR! Harland named marigold and for a farm kid that makes sense (though the retconned acceptance of that word into Umbrella vocabulary was irksome) But Durango? Abigail is a scientist and she names The Bad Dust after an SUV? Why?

AND WHY WAS THERE ZERO QUEERNESS? Each of the first three seasons had some sort of queer arc but not this one. I still wonder if some higher-up didn't intentionally assassinate the show as backlash for the immense respect S3 gave Elliot Page.

One last thing, music is a big part of the show, they've always put such thought and care into the soundtrack and it makes sense knowing who the creators are, so why, of all songs, was Baby Damn Shark the first song to be featured in like three episodes? It seems intentionally disrespectful.

I'm done, rant over, I'll never recover from this.

[illmoraineakoi]

Some Thoughts on the rest of AvA Season 3

You know, I'm a little bit baffled by how many episodes are left in Season 3.

It's supposedly set to run to episode 15, which means there are four more episodes in this season.

But I really don't understand what else could happen?

Victim has Chosen, Orange and Yellow. He has the means of summoning the Cursor. He also has the means of finding Alan's PC location too, via the memory scanner, if that's something he wanted.

He even has the means of containing the Cursor, with The Box.

For all intents and purposes, Victim is so close to achieving his goals.

Literally all of it, from Yellow summoning the Cursor, to Victim having a confrontation and fight with the Cursor, to Orange inevitably intervening and ruining his attempt at vengeance and saving the day, it can all be wrapped up in a single episode.

So...four?

Four more?

Something's not right. There's more we're missing. There's more that will happen. It's not going to be that straight forward.

Chosen is an integral part of this arc. And he's left far too many mysteries in his wake thus far.

Orange's origin and his connection to Chosen, too, has yet to be explained.

Which Alan has confirmed would be, at some point, quote, "explained in the story". (Thought to his credit, he did not specify when it would be, nor if it would be in S3. This was also a quote by DJ, not Alan's actual words, when DJ was asking about Orange and Chosen, for added context. Alan's response was "Uh-huh.", to the above quote.)

I do not think it's a coincidence that we received a MASSIVE lore dump on how the Outernet works, and the "green energy" along side it, in the episode immediately after Orange's powers became known. The green energy played a massive part in Victim's episode, symbolizing both the creation of life, but also the loss of it. Orange's powers are going to play a more significant role going forward.

Though it will be difficult to say if his reviving powers will play a role or not.

(I personally believe they will, because I don't understand why Mitsi would get a plush otherwise. Her role in Victim's story was very important yes, but...a plush? Alan's never done that before, made merch of canonically, permanently dead, only-appears-in-one-episode characters. It feels a little strange. Unless they were just banking, literally, on the audience's heartbreak and swift attachment to her character? People's desire to want to make her and their Victim plushes a set? That feels so disingenuous for Alan, though...So why?)

(I don't believe Mitsi's role is complete. That might just be the cope, admittedly.)

The new gap in TCO and TDL's story is also very suspicious. There must be a REASON that Alan decided to set the Newgrounds attack in 2011, upending most people's assumptions for how they spent their time after they escaped.

And therein lies a problem too: our assumptions. We know so very little about TCO and TDL's time after they escape until Showdown, and it's starting to feel like it's becoming a problem. Especially when things keep tying back to them.

It's intentional. Alan isn't rewriting the timeline for no reason. He's not casting doubt onto Chosen for no reason.

We are going to get more information on Chosen and Dark. The new gaps in the timeline and the ambiguity to their character arcs needs to be completed. Alan and his team have been very good at tying up those loose ends.

I firmly believe one of the four remaining episodes is going to be Chosen and Dark's 'extended'/'improved' backstory, an episode that is going to massively clarify both their characters like Victim's did.

Dark's strange absence from Victim's arc in particular is feeling very odd. Why is the narrative trying so hard to push Chosen as a main perpetrator for Victim's antagonist arc? Is it to set up his own expanded redemption arc better? Is it to fall in line with the theme of "actions have consequences"? Is it to forcefully beat it into the thick-headed fandom that Chosen is a morally grey character, a fact so many people seem to chose to just ignore because they like him?

But then why immediately show Dark after Agent has left, if we are supposed to focus on being upset at Chosen? Why is his appearance on that tank treated as a reveal?

What is there to reveal? We already knew he was there. Why was that important to show?

It's just so weird. By willfully hiding Dark, Alan is calling even greater attention to him. His absence is perplexing. So why?

Something is important about Dark. Dark is going to play a bigger role in what happens in the future than we might currently think.

Either he's being set up for the 'grand reveal' that he was the only one actually throwing attacks around during the Stick Page and Newgrounds attack (A weak reveal because people already think this, think that Chosen is being used a bait-and-switch) OR, and I really hate to be 'that person'-

He's being set up to come back.

I hate to be 'that person', because I've frankly gotten tired of people theorizing that Dark's going to return in Season 3. There was never any evidence for it, before. The arc, originally, had nothing to do with him. He had his arc in Season 2, and Alan being undecided in his fate didn't magically mean he'd pop back up in a brand new narrative with a brand new antagonist. Especially when, at first, it didn't seem like he was involved.

But there is evidence for it now. He is involved, at least a little. Dark is, by his absence and the complete lack of acknowledgement of his very existence by Victim, important to SOMETHING in this season.

Though in what way, I can only speculate. And those speculations sound like fanfics, fam, so they're going in a reblog.

There is also the issue of the Animator's character. Something huge needs to happen to redeem him in the eyes of the audience after what was revealed in AvA11. So many people are horrified and appalled by his past actions, and his current "redemption" doesn't feel like it hold up. It's too weak.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: The Animator needs to do something more. He needs to show he actually cares about his stick figures.

And he needs to apologize to Victim. That is one of my biggest desires to see, in the final episode: Alan apologizing to Victim. I want to see it as badly as I want to see the Cursor burst into pixelated flames in a fight scene. Chosen, too, deserves an apology.

I personally think that Victim is going to receive a good ending - the fact that he's being fleshed out with a backstory that makes him very sympathetic is a good sign that he might have a nice ending in this story, if not the one that he perhaps wants at the moment (that being his vengeance lmao.) And Alan usually goes for good, feel-good, endings to his story arcs. The only one that didn't really feel very 'complete' is Season 2, which, y'know, might now be for a reason.

In any case, I at least don't think Alan has it in him to kill Victim off permanently. Victim is the stick who started it all, who started him on his path to success that's brought him to where he is now. Victim is special to Alan's life story. Animator vs Animation would not exist without him. Alan wouldn't be here, doing what he loves, without him. Victim literally changed his life, just as much as Orange has, if not more.

This is why I hope Alan gives Victim the same respect of a good ending. The same respect of the ability to be happy and kind again.

It would be such a nice bookend, that the stick figure he originally created with the intent of beating up and tormenting is given love, happiness, and closure for his arc end.

That's what I want more than anything else. I want Victim to have a happy ending. I want him to have what he was deprived of in AvA1.

He deserves it, so much.

We have four more episodes to go. And a lot is going to happen in those episodes. Maybe I'm wrong and they stretch the whole 'confrontation with the Cursor' out really long, but it'll still play out mostly as expected. Or maybe something utterly batshit crazy will happen that will catch us by surprise, like Dark returning (either as an antagonist or ally, both would be awesome and unexpected) or Mitsi returning as an antagonist for some reason (probably not, but it'd be insane.) Or maybe I'm extra extra wrong and Victim will die, which would utterly devastate me and break my heart into a billion little pieces.

It's impossible to tell right now.

But I'm looking forward to the wild ride. Regardless of what happens, Alan and his team are going to make some beautiful art. Scott Buckley is probably going to make some amazing music. Everyone is going to continue to breath life into this amazing, gorgeous world, an tell an amazing story alongside it.

I don't love AvA just because of the story of the characters. I love it for the passion that goes into it. I love it because it's clear Alan loves it, and all of the animators, editors, artists, and sound designers clearly love it too. I love seeing all of that effort, all of that work, all of that love, come together to make something truly amazing and beautiful. I love that the team are in a position where they can make these animations for an audience who loves them so much.

I cannot wait to see what more their passion and love can make, and where they will take us from here.