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Syd: Enters The Room

Carmy: 😍

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2x9 | 3x1

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all I'm saying is if they wanted sydcarmy to be platonic they'd give us more of a neil & richie playful dynamic not soulmatism 101

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Some interesting bits here that the Bear writers may have pulled from, based on acclaimed celebrity chef Charlie Trotter and his wife, Rochelle. 👀

Charlie Trotter / Carmy parallels

From Chicago, left to work at some of the best restaurants in the world as a young man, and returned to Chicago to open a restaurant using money borrowed from his family.

His main restaurant, Trotters, had a side deli, "Trotter's To Go" that served quick, cheap food during the day.

Was dyslexic so drew his recipes instead.

The first chef in the industry to change menus daily, even hourly, and never repeated ingredients

Known as a meticulous tyrant and intense perfectionist in the kitchen

Mom's name is Donna-Lee (Donna + Lee?)

Gave Grant Achatz from Alinea his start and later became Trotter's rival for stars (Achatz is seen in S3 talking to Luca at the Ever dinner).

Rochelle Smith Trotter / Syd parallels

Classically trained chef, earned a culinary degree.

Started her own culinary consulting business.

Mother died when she was 11 and was raised by her father in Chicago.

Met and fell in love with "her soulmate" Charlie on her culinary journey.

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Everyone is an outsider to Sydney and Carmy's bubble.

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It's a love story in under 2 minutes. Part One.

Proof: She was fucking beautiful you would have lost your mind, Sydney comes back, and Carmy is in a trance; Carmy wants to provide amusement and enjoyment for Sydney by giving her what he assumes she wants, making her happy. Who's Claire? Hi, I'm Claire/death stare. I'm sorry you're here. These words, you will be mine. I don't want you to think I was jealous or anything. I wouldn't want to do it without you. A stare that holds many words.

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A Rant - Part 1

Why do people genuinely believe Chris Storer doesn't like Sydcarmy?

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) Storer has never said anything anti sydcarmy. He said things that are anti shippers which is completely different. And tbh some of you are confirming his point.

The whole concept of this story came from Chris Storer's mind, that includes the concept of sydcarmy. The idea that Storer never planned on sydcarmy and Ayo & JAW just had such amazing chemistry he was strong-armed into making them subtextually romantic in his own passion project is, in the most respectful way possible, incredibly naive.

And I get it, this show deliberately messes with our feelings, our perception of the story and gaslights us about what we're all seeing, but at some point we have to come back to reality and apply logic.

If you took away all the romantic subtext between sydcarmy this would feel like a pretty hollow, bland story when it comes to real connection & love which are 2 of the show's main themes, so how does it make sense they didn't plan on this connection between sydcarmy? The message of the show relies on the depth of their relationship (among others but sydcarmy is the main one.)

Richie and Carmy had great moments in S1 but it doesn't feel like their love for each other was planned as the central love story of the show. Of course Carmy loved Mikey deeply but I don't think the plan was to make his relationship with his dead brother the only love & real connection Carmy experiences in the story. Carmy should be living his life, not clinging to the dead.

That only leaves Sydcarmy.

As significant as the other relationships and dynamics are to the overall story, no other connection on this show has been emphasized and central to the story as much as Sydcarmy, even in S1. If the show at its core is about found family, real connection, love etc, without the beauty of the subtle story between sydcarmy that message wouldn't be anywhere near as impactful.

Their relationship is a huge part of the heart and soul of the show. Nothing drastically changed from S1 to S2 in that respect so there was no sudden change in direction in response to the chemistry or the fans.

Part 2

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A Rant - Part 2

Idk what some of you are smoking but Chris Storer does not prefer Carmy/Claire over Sydcarmy

If Storer liked Claire/Carmy why would he write them as the blandest dynamic on the show, completely lacking in the substance the show is known to give even the briefest dynamics? Why would he write sydcarmy as a vastly more intimate and meaningful connection?

The Bear Is Storer's passion project. Sydney is based off Storer's romantic partner irl, Claire is based off Storer's highschool friend. Wouldn't it be incredibly disrespectful to his partner if he preferred a romantic relationship between Carmy & Claire??!

Storer doesn't write Claire Carmy as if he likes them bc he gives them no real depth, all of the romantic depth in the story goes to sydcarmy.

Clairmy barely even resembles a romance story other than the fact they've kissed and had sex. Without those overt physical displays and Carmy being told she's his girlfriend, it would be completely plausible to call that a platonic relationship. The things they do together, their conversations are easily platonic in nature, the content of their story isn't romantic, they're given no romantic story beats unless Sydney is a factor in some way and it's not the same vice versa.

If you remove the whole story between Carmy & Claire, the depth, meaning & themes of love and real connection in the overall story remain intact because they're mostly expressed through sydcarmy's relationship, not Carmy and Claire's. That doesn't work if you remove sydcarmy's story or even just remove the romantic subtext between them.

Nothing is going to completely 180 the fact that the story has been consistently showing us since S1 that Sydney is Carmy's north star. Nothing points to it being Claire, even in S3. Even the "Claire is peace" line bc we all know that isn't true, the show itself demonstrated Sydney is the one who brings Carmy peace multiple times in S3. And this show values the power of showing over telling.

I understand having doubts about how their story will end, it's a TV show that's the point, but these takes with no real basis just make the fandom spiral into negativity which isn't productive or beneficial for any of us. And it's all based on something that isn't even really plausible??

Carmy missing Claire was pushed on the surface in S3 but if you just look beneath the surface, everything is sydcarmy. Everything still points to the fact their story is the central theme of love and real connection on the show even if it doesn't look that way right now.

Part 1

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carmy + michael

"because that restaurant, it has and does mean a lot to people. it means a lot to me. i just don't know if it ever meant anything to him."

carmy loves michael, and he very clearly misses his big brother's presence in his life.

but something that i want to discuss is how angry carmy is with michael. it's not an explosive anger but a sour one that froths underneath the surface of carmy's sadness.

in episode eight, when tina checks up on carmy, she remembers a time the restaurant didn't have napkins because mikey wasn't paying the vendor. she tells carmen, "he was like, 'what's the point? we're not gonna be able to pay 'em next month anyways.'"

carmy responds with, "sounds like that was his attitude, huh?" and sounds utterly defeated at the thought. he's starting to accept that maybe his brother really didn't give a shit about the restaurant, didn't give a shit about him. that he just left carmy with a gigantic mess to clean up as one final fuck you, because even when he's dead, mikey knows all the right buttons to push.

then tina responds - "no, no. i remember it because it wasn't his attitude." and now carmy's stumbling back to square one on figuring out his brother's intentions. and that's what makes carmy upset. the fact that he doesn't know what michael was thinking, that he doesn't know the depth of michael's addiction - or that he had one to begin with.

all of the little details carmy learns about his brother, no matter how dark, or how ugly, or how confusing they are, hurt infinitely less than all of the ones he doesn't.

carmy is angry at michael for pushing him away, and even angrier with himself for letting it happen because he knows there's no longer a chance for him to fix their relationship.

michael's letter (and the money he leaves for carmen) is his way of telling carmy - i see you. it's confirmation of the support carmen's been craving after michael shut him out.

but before carmy receives the letter, he has no clue about how much confidence michael had in him. instead, all of the anguish carmy feels about the deterioration of his relationship with michael is pooling into a sea of resentment.

and he's drowning in it.

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I may be suppressing memories, but I don’t believe I am. What exactly did seasons 1, 2, and 3 misrepresent? The teasers and trailers all seemed pretty straightforward to me. Is it the claim of a partnership with Sydney that hasn't happened yet? I believe the reason this hasn't occurred is that it's one of the significant moments in the story we're building up to, and there are many obstacles to overcome before it happens.

Chris Storer, on the one and only times he discusses Sydney and Carmy: It's a partnership, you'll see.

This means the partnership is coming and will be spontaneous and magical, but it will be there.

I don't care, but I'm bragging because I accurately predicted what would happen in the season I watched. Last season, I saw that Carmy would struggle with becoming Chef David which would create emotional distance between him and Sydney. If you watch the Season 3 trailer, it's quite clear. So, why is there so much bleakness from this ship for Season 4? That's a genuine question.

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The Bear - Season 4 First Teaser

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honeydew

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No problem, thank you for such a thorough response. You made some great points and Chef Terry telling him is very plausible.

Maybe the lack of on screen acknowledgement for Syd opening the restaurant is just to emphasize the plot point that she feels unrecognized for her work and it doesn't mean people don't know.

"The other possibility is that Shapiro knows Carmy's level of skill and his expectations and by virtue of that, his making her his CDC tells him everything he needs to know. Carmy is the best and only likes the best. Therefore, Syd is the best."

I love this idea, it still makes Shapiro's method of approach questionable but I'd prefer if the plot was that his motives are purely based on admiration for Syd's skills (and Carmy's standards) rather than using her as a pawn to get some kind of revenge on Carmy or something.

"The biggest red flag is him applying so much pressure to Syd and that he wants to seemingly build this overnight. What's the rush?"

I completely agree with this, he's rushing her for an answer but hasn't even sent her a contract so she has proof in writing of what she's saying yes to. Very suspicious business practice imo. For all Carmy's faults he hasn't pressured Syd about signing the agreement and he offered her a lawyer to look at it for free (his own lawyer which kinda defeats the purpose but it's the thought and consideration that counts).

"My conspiracy brain wants to make Chef David his backer so that ultimately Syd and Carmy go up against them together, but might be far-fetched."

This is a fun theory and it would be so interesting to watch Carmy & Syd as a functional partnership going up against them.

I wrote this in response to this post about Adam Shapiro but I didn't wanna hijack OP's post as I was replying to @freedelusionshere comment anyway so i'll put it here instead.

I agree the way Shapiro's character has been presented seems suspicious. Like a lot of things on this show it's portrayed subtly and indirectly but purposefully.

It's interesting to me that Syd had no idea who he was even after she stopped to look at him, until he said his name and she recognized it as a chef from Ever. But he knew who she was and seemed to know enough details about her role at The Bear to ask her to do an almost identical job for him the next time they met. How did he know she was capable of all that?

All the articles we've seen about in the show don't mention Syd, they don't credit her with helping to build the restaurant or even mention that Carmy is partnered with another chef. As far as we know her work isn't being publicly acknowledged and nobody outside of the staff and Emmanuel (and possibly Claire) know how much Syd's done there, so how does Shapiro seem to be aware of details you don't just pick up eating at a restaurant "under the radar" one time?

Richie worked at Ever for a week in S2 but he wasn't exactly Syd's biggest fan then so if he did talk about her I doubt he made her role at The Bear sound like a good thing or said positive things about the changes she'd made to make Shapiro want to poach her.

Shapiro said he ate at The Bear with friends, maybe one of them told him. But again, how do they know? The show makes it seem like Syd's full role at The Bear isn't public knowledge. Especially not the kind of details Shapiro seemed aware of.

Syd told a couple of chefs Carmy's her partner in S2 and judging by the lack of Syd mentions in the articles, I'd imagine they're probably thinking "I told you so" right now...but this does seem like the most plausible way he could know. It's still a flimsy connection imo bc the show has given us no other outside acknowledgement for Syd's work at The Bear. No other chef mentioned it or congratulated her in 3x10, even Chef Terry who congratulated Carmy then partied with Syd at her apartment didn't mention it to her. I assumed Luca would have an idea through Marcus or Carmy but he didn't say anything about it either and there was plenty of opportunity in their conversation. Shapiro is the only other chef who's congratulated her or mentioned it.

Knowing this doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, maybe he just noticed the negative environment of The Bear and decided to offer Syd an opportunity but it does make you wonder how he knows so much and no one else seems to. Maybe the show just does a bad job at portraying that it's public knowledge but judging by their usual level of attention to detail in storytelling, I don't think that's the case.

I guess Shapiro could know other chefs Syd's worked with in the past but getting info from them then approaching Syd the way he did without mentioning that is also just weird. And how would he know she can single handedly build a restaurant from scratch to the point of giving her complete creative control?

If it was sudden for Carmy to offer Syd such a big role in building his dream restaurant after months of working together in S1, it's very strange for Shapiro to offer Syd an almost identical offer but even better, after only meeting her twice.

Plus he says he doesn't want it to be "a gross poaching" but what else do you call asking someone who's already trying to build a restaurant with a chef he personally knows to basically abandon that project to come build his business full time instead? A decent person with good intentions would've spoken to Carmy and Syd together or at least gave Carmy a heads up that he planned to offer his CDC an opportunity to work for him instead. And Shapiro made that offer hard to refuse, even Syd knew it seemed too good to be true. That in itself is such a shady thing to do.

The definition of poaching in business: "Poaching is when an employer actively approaches, or 'head hunts', someone who is already employed by, or working at, another organisation, as opposed to advertising a vacancy and going through a usual recruitment process." [Source]

Shapiro can dress it up all he wants, poaching is the literal definition of what he's doing and the way he's gone about it is "gross" bc it's not like Carmy is a stranger to him, Syd was a stranger though.

His character has been subtly presented as someone who shouldn't be trusted imo. Kinda like Claire in S2. There seems to be no reason to dislike them on the surface but if you look beneath the surface there are plenty of reasons, too many to be a coincidence. Maybe Shapiro's not a good guy or maybe it's deliberate misdirection, either way I think he's been presented as a slightly suspicious character on purpose.

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Great points @moodyeucalyptus and they are plausible.

"What he's doing is fishy from a politeness standpoint towards Carmy, but also, opportunity for Syd is opportunity."

I agree with this, I get why Syd heard Shapiro out & is still considering the offer despite knowing he's going behind Carmy's back and I don't blame her. I was talking more about Shapiro's actions from a general pov.

You're right, I forgot about Syd trying to poach workers from another restaurant. That's not really the same as trying to poach a previous colleague's business partner and collaborator though. Syd made a spur of the moment attempt to poach some unknown kitchen staff, it wasn't a pre-meditated, thought out decision. Shapiro went out of his way and made a plan to lure Syd away from a chef he personally knows.

I agree with you on Syd's pov, her reluctance is more about leaving Carmy, the bear and the family she's built there but I think she does notice Shapiro's approach is a little shady. Syd's main priority has always been her career though so shady approach or not, he's offering her a very attractive way out of an arrangement she feels trapped in.

From her facial expressions, body language and reactions in scenes with Shapiro Syd does notice things that seem a bit off with him, but either they're not fully registering right now bc she's got bigger problems on her mind or she's willing to overlook it bc Shapiro's offer seems like the better option.

The way Syd's handles her suspicions about Shapiro kind of reminds me a little bit of when Claire told Carmy about stealing. He didn't respect it but he didn't vocalize that or make his pov on it obvious bc Claire was offering something he did want, just not with her; a personal connection with someone. He wasn't getting it the way he wanted it from Syd (or was too afraid to try and get it wrong) and Claire was offering. We could tell Carmy didn't like the stealing thing but he let it go.

What I see from Syd is she's doing the same thing with Shapiro. Shapiro's offering something she wants, just not with him. Carmy's not giving her a partnership the way she wants it and she's not gonna pick seemingly pointless battles with Shapiro when he's offering what she wants on a plate.

I wrote this in response to this post about Adam Shapiro but I didn't wanna hijack OP's post as I was replying to @freedelusionshere comment anyway so i'll put it here instead.

I agree the way Shapiro's character has been presented seems suspicious. Like a lot of things on this show it's portrayed subtly and indirectly but purposefully.

It's interesting to me that Syd had no idea who he was even after she stopped to look at him, until he said his name and she recognized it as a chef from Ever. But he knew who she was and seemed to know enough details about her role at The Bear to ask her to do an almost identical job for him the next time they met. How did he know she was capable of all that?

All the articles we've seen about in the show don't mention Syd, they don't credit her with helping to build the restaurant or even mention that Carmy is partnered with another chef. As far as we know her work isn't being publicly acknowledged and nobody outside of the staff and Emmanuel (and possibly Claire) know how much Syd's done there, so how does Shapiro seem to be aware of details you don't just pick up eating at a restaurant "under the radar" one time?

Richie worked at Ever for a week in S2 but he wasn't exactly Syd's biggest fan then so if he did talk about her I doubt he made her role at The Bear sound like a good thing or said positive things about the changes she'd made to make Shapiro want to poach her.

Shapiro said he ate at The Bear with friends, maybe one of them told him. But again, how do they know? The show makes it seem like Syd's full role at The Bear isn't public knowledge. Especially not the kind of details Shapiro seemed aware of.

Syd told a couple of chefs Carmy's her partner in S2 and judging by the lack of Syd mentions in the articles, I'd imagine they're probably thinking "I told you so" right now...but this does seem like the most plausible way he could know. It's still a flimsy connection imo bc the show has given us no other outside acknowledgement for Syd's work at The Bear. No other chef mentioned it or congratulated her in 3x10, even Chef Terry who congratulated Carmy then partied with Syd at her apartment didn't mention it to her. I assumed Luca would have an idea through Marcus or Carmy but he didn't say anything about it either and there was plenty of opportunity in their conversation. Shapiro is the only other chef who's congratulated her or mentioned it.

Knowing this doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, maybe he just noticed the negative environment of The Bear and decided to offer Syd an opportunity but it does make you wonder how he knows so much and no one else seems to. Maybe the show just does a bad job at portraying that it's public knowledge but judging by their usual level of attention to detail in storytelling, I don't think that's the case.

I guess Shapiro could know other chefs Syd's worked with in the past but getting info from them then approaching Syd the way he did without mentioning that is also just weird. And how would he know she can single handedly build a restaurant from scratch to the point of giving her complete creative control?

If it was sudden for Carmy to offer Syd such a big role in building his dream restaurant after months of working together in S1, it's very strange for Shapiro to offer Syd an almost identical offer but even better, after only meeting her twice.

Plus he says he doesn't want it to be "a gross poaching" but what else do you call asking someone who's already trying to build a restaurant with a chef he personally knows to basically abandon that project to come build his business full time instead? A decent person with good intentions would've spoken to Carmy and Syd together or at least gave Carmy a heads up that he planned to offer his CDC an opportunity to work for him instead. And Shapiro made that offer hard to refuse, even Syd knew it seemed too good to be true. That in itself is such a shady thing to do.

The definition of poaching in business: "Poaching is when an employer actively approaches, or 'head hunts', someone who is already employed by, or working at, another organisation, as opposed to advertising a vacancy and going through a usual recruitment process." [Source]

Shapiro can dress it up all he wants, poaching is the literal definition of what he's doing and the way he's gone about it is "gross" bc it's not like Carmy is a stranger to him, Syd was a stranger though.

His character has been subtly presented as someone who shouldn't be trusted imo. Kinda like Claire in S2. There seems to be no reason to dislike them on the surface but if you look beneath the surface there are plenty of reasons, too many to be a coincidence. Maybe Shapiro's not a good guy or maybe it's deliberate misdirection, either way I think he's been presented as a slightly suspicious character on purpose.

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I wrote this in response to this post about Adam Shapiro but I didn't wanna hijack OP's post as I was replying to @freedelusionshere comment anyway so i'll put it here instead.

I agree the way Shapiro's character has been presented seems suspicious. Like a lot of things on this show it's portrayed subtly and indirectly but purposefully.

It's interesting to me that Syd had no idea who he was even after she stopped to look at him, until he said his name and she recognized it as a chef from Ever. But he knew who she was and seemed to know enough details about her role at The Bear to ask her to do an almost identical job for him the next time they met. How did he know she was capable of all that?

All the articles we've seen about in the show don't mention Syd, they don't credit her with helping to build the restaurant or even mention that Carmy is partnered with another chef. As far as we know her work isn't being publicly acknowledged and nobody outside of the staff and Emmanuel (and possibly Claire) know how much Syd's done there, so how does Shapiro seem to be aware of details you don't just pick up eating at a restaurant "under the radar" one time?

Richie worked at Ever for a week in S2 but he wasn't exactly Syd's biggest fan then so if he did talk about her I doubt he made her role at The Bear sound like a good thing or said positive things about the changes she'd made to make Shapiro want to poach her.

Shapiro said he ate at The Bear with friends, maybe one of them told him. But again, how do they know? The show makes it seem like Syd's full role at The Bear isn't public knowledge. Especially not the kind of details Shapiro seemed aware of.

Syd told a couple of chefs Carmy's her partner in S2 and judging by the lack of Syd mentions in the articles, I'd imagine they're probably thinking "I told you so" right now...but this does seem like the most plausible way he could know. It's still a flimsy connection imo bc the show has given us no other outside acknowledgement for Syd's work at The Bear. No other chef mentioned it or congratulated her in 3x10, even Chef Terry who congratulated Carmy then partied with Syd at her apartment didn't mention it to her. I assumed Luca would have an idea through Marcus or Carmy but he didn't say anything about it either and there was plenty of opportunity in their conversation. Shapiro is the only other chef who's congratulated her or mentioned it.

Knowing this doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, maybe he just noticed the negative environment of The Bear and decided to offer Syd an opportunity but it does make you wonder how he knows so much and no one else seems to. Maybe the show just does a bad job at portraying that it's public knowledge but judging by their usual level of attention to detail in storytelling, I don't think that's the case.

I guess Shapiro could know other chefs Syd's worked with in the past but getting info from them then approaching Syd the way he did without mentioning that is also just weird. And how would he know she can single handedly build a restaurant from scratch to the point of giving her complete creative control?

If it was sudden for Carmy to offer Syd such a big role in building his dream restaurant after months of working together in S1, it's very strange for Shapiro to offer Syd an almost identical offer but even better, after only meeting her twice.

Plus he says he doesn't want it to be "a gross poaching" but what else do you call asking someone who's already trying to build a restaurant with a chef he personally knows to basically abandon that project to come build his business full time instead? A decent person with good intentions would've spoken to Carmy and Syd together or at least gave Carmy a heads up that he planned to offer his CDC an opportunity to work for him instead. And Shapiro made that offer hard to refuse, even Syd knew it seemed too good to be true. That in itself is such a shady thing to do.

The definition of poaching in business: "Poaching is when an employer actively approaches, or 'head hunts', someone who is already employed by, or working at, another organisation, as opposed to advertising a vacancy and going through a usual recruitment process." [Source]

Shapiro can dress it up all he wants, poaching is the literal definition of what he's doing and the way he's gone about it is "gross" bc it's not like Carmy is a stranger to him, Syd was a stranger though.

His character has been subtly presented as someone who shouldn't be trusted imo. Kinda like Claire in S2. There seems to be no reason to dislike them on the surface but if you look beneath the surface there are plenty of reasons, too many to be a coincidence. Maybe Shapiro's not a good guy or maybe it's deliberate misdirection, either way I think he's been presented as a slightly suspicious character on purpose.

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"Wait, so what was the best one?" "Best what?" "Best meal you ever had." "Yeah, it was, it was Carmy's." THE BEAR (2022–)

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Sydney and Carmy- the moment(s) they fell for each other.