#sydcarmy meta

[notyourdaisybuchanan]

sydcarmys are we gonna talk about how after Carmy points out the stains on her chef jacket in 2x09 Sydney proceeds to spend nearly the entire episode in a plain white t-shirt, which is nothing like her usual style, but does happen to be uhhh someone else's signature look

are we gonna talk about it

[outmakingmoonshine]

SOUND ON!!!

Idk if I'm late on this but I only just noticed it. Pls listen to Carmy at the end, after he introduces Syd to Luca. I removed the bg noise and enhanced the audio

He introduces them saying "Luca, Syd"

Then he's quickly trying to get Syd to move onto saying hello to someone else. He points to this other person immediately and says "Will." But Syd's still saying a very warm hello to Luca so Carmy calls her name to get her attention!!! It hasn't even been 3 seconds 😂 This is the guy who trained Syd's good friend and colleague and worked with Carmy!! Why can't they say hello properly, Carmy?!!

He was trying to break that up real quick!! That greeting was too warm and went on too long for his liking! 3 seconds being too long for Carmy!!

I think @pudgetprincess was right in the replies of this post, Carmy was already aware that Luca could be a threat before Syd even got there. Carmy looked Luca's way just as he put his hand on Syd's back. He kept it there the whole time he introduced Syd to the table, telling her to "say hi", then looked Luca's way again before he removed his hand, making sure Luca had seen it. Then he introduces Syd to Luca and suddenly it's not "say hi" anymore it's ok Syd let's move it along there's other ppl here you know lmao. Carmy is actually hilarious! If we get jealous Carmy next season it's gonna be SO good.

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

Everything is about walls with Sydney

Season 1

Richie got the wrong caulk, but she didn't:

Season 2

The Bear | 02X01 | Beef

Sundae 02x03: Sydney Call me? Carmy That I call you to tell you the-the-the walls are rotting and they need to be knocked down? Sydney Yeah, exactly. Carmy Um… Okay, sorry, so just, um… You know, for-for next time, what should I have done? (laughs) Sydney Um, th-this just feels like, uh, obviously a really big decision. Carmy Sure. Sydney And it would have been nice to have been included in it? Carmy Okay. Got it. No, no. Next time the, uh, the walls need to be knocked down, there’s nothing we can do about it… Sydney You let me know. Carmy Okay. I’ll let you know. I’ll let you know. Sydney Yeah. Carmy Thanks, Chef. Sydney Yeah, thank you, Chef.

Season 3

Her walls are getting thiner, Emmanuel the man who knows her better than she knows herself, already noticed.

More about her walls here and here.

Bonus track: Emmanuel. This guy! OMG! He will end up being the biggest shipper on Earth, I'm telling you! But right now he can see how his "baby" is slipping through his fingers ever since "her business partner" came into her life and he's not liking it one bit.

He can see from outer space what his daughter is trying to deny to herself with all her might. He can see she's jumping headfirst into all things Carmy and knows exactly why that is.

Has known it all along:

Remember to follow my tag #Gingerpovs 💋

[brokenwinebox]

Have we ever discussed the possibility that Carmy basically threw both, Claire and Sydney, away? Carmy slammed the door on Claire’s declaration of love the same way he cut the tether to his partnership with Sydney.

He didn’t talk to either of them about it, constantly leading him back to the fridge. A simple apology with words of affirmation could’ve solved both situations but those particular words were probably always stuck at the roof of his mouth, wasting and rotting away until he had to chew it back down because he felt it was already too late.

[yannaryartside]

SYDNEY'S PART

THE ANALOGY OF THE PARTNER WITH ADDICTION

I just realized this parallel, and I have questions and feelings.

This second scene was one of the most frustrating moments for me, and that is saying a lot. It made me realize the crucial factor that could contribute to Sydcarmy not working despite the underlying feelings and connection.

The scene is obviously about how Sydeny feels guilty for not being able to stand to Carmy and make him stop the chaos. Maybe is also about feeling sad because she doesn't think that he wants to change for her, because if that were the case, he would have done it already. He has verbalized that intention and always, always, leaves her alone and behind (It is hard to keep with you sometimes).

I have been wrestling with the theory that Carmy's and Syd's relationship is acting as an analogy for an addict and their romantic partner. I have been reading this book: Loving someone in recovery. I still need to finish it, but it has given me some ideas. More extended meta-analyses on this subject are coming up. But I wanna concentrate on what the scene is hitting at (I miss ao3).

Notice in Brigade, the woman also says, "until the chemistry changes.", then in the very next scene, you have Sydney decipher a recipe just by chemistry logic, leaving Carmy impressed, and right after, carmy puts Sydney in charge of the restaurant. The clues are all there.

Also, notice how the woman at AA refers to the abuse of substances, but in Carmy's case, it also means abuse in the literal sense, verbal, psychological, and physical abuse.

The show has many scenes in which Sydney treats Carmy's issues with compassion and a firm hand.

"I don't want to be an asshole" "Don't be" aka: I know you know what is right and wrong despite feeling like shit, don't let it get over you.

She keeps her cool while Carmy makes impossible demands and screams. She helps Tina with her dish and completes the task without ever insulting or yelling back at anybody. The toxic techniques that Carmy learned that worked in the culinary industry, she refuses to accept as the norm. She is a chef Terry.

Finding the positive in the worst circumstances, aka, saying Cicero "You are here" or encouraging Richie and the staff. Even reviewing Carmy's recipes with patience and humor

"Is hard to keep with you sometimes' is key word here sometimes, aka: "because the problem is your issues, not you. You are a good person who is deeply hurting, but your actions have consequences for me and the people around you".

The thing is, if we are gonna talk about a partner with addiction, we need to establish the problem (the trauma) and the drugs. I remember watching a movie about addiction, a nurse saying, "Drugs are never the problem (for an addict), they are the solution.

So, the problem (the trauma)

The drug (solution)

You already know my theory that Claire is the equivalent of painkillers/anesthesia. A shallow but pleasing relationship that is always available to attend to your flaws without ever being actual medicine. Because to get better, painkillers are never enough.

BACK TO SYD

Syd really doesn't believe she has a say in what Carmy wants, (God she even believes she is not what Carmy wants, because he wants Claire, that is what it seems to her) just right before this dialogue, she asks him "Do you want me to say something?", from reading the book, it really reminded me of a partner feeling abandoned when the addict would resource to their drug of use to feel good or set back to old habits. That would leave the partner frustrated, depressed, and angry.

To be fair, the fact that Carmy is his boss should be added to the equation. They cannot even be called friends, so why should Sydney say something? Carmy is 24/7 in defense mode, saying things like "You don't have to say it, I already know."

He offered Syd equal partnership, but she didn’t get it. If they had been equal partners she definitely has the power to say something. But she didn’t take the offer, maybe because she suspected (or feared) they would never be on equal ground.

THE KEY QUESTION IS, WHAT DOES SYDNEY SAY?

I am genuinely curious about this. Is Syd (or her leaving) supposed to be a wake-up call to Carmy? That he fucked up something that brought him genuine joy and connection because Syd knew the real him, while Claire liked Logan and Carmy's brokenness? The way Claire would enable him in his bad tendencies? How is he gonna realize all that?

Sydney needs more emotional resources when it comes to conflict resolution. So far, her techniques have been using patience and love (water) against toxicity and bad patterns (fire). There is definitely a need for that. That is what turned everybody around and helped them become their best selves. But it has a toll. And she started the season with "I don't know what the fuck to do right now" and ended the season without a solution. Maybe walking away is the solution.

SYDNEY'S PART

What could this mean for Syd? Sydney may confront Carmy or not. I guess we will have to see.

[noangeleither]

yin and yang: carmy and sydney's creative processes + menu planning

what i love about analyzing carmy and sydney is the way they mirror each other. their similarities and differences, and how they have the potential to complement each other well. truly make each other better at this.

this is most evident with the way they approach creating a dish.

sydney's creative process

evidenced by sheridan (s01e05) and sundae (s02e03), sydney is very imaginative when it comes to creating a dish. the editing in these episodes gives us an intimate view of her creative process. recipes often come to her in dreams/daydreams.

sydney gets inspired by her passion for cooking, her family history and her city/world around her (architecture, nature, other restaurants in Chicago). this really fits into sydney's motivations as a chef.

Sydney uses food to make people happy. She likes to take care of people. someone on here explained the significance of sydney wanting exactly one michelin star, which would signify affordable high quality food that normal everyday people have access to. in braciole she mentions to marcus that her dad and her didn't really go out to eat so when they did, they made it count and it was special. she wants to create an experience like that with her own spot (the Bear).

so naturally that is reflected in her food. its not simply a great meal, but a fabric/archive of her culture, history, worldview and entire character.

while sydney has a very imaginative creative process, she often just jots down her ideas in her little notebook(s), for later reflection.

carmy's creative process

carmy has a more tense relationship with cooking. while sydney and carmy are both amazing chefs, carmy seems to be more jaded and detached from his work.

for carmy he grew up in a household where food was a big part of his family. his mom, mikey, and nat can all cook well. he is naturally very great at it. he uses food to be closer to the people he loves. thats why in the face of rejection from his brother, he goes off and becomes one of the best chefs in the country out of spite. why he uses the beef to try and fix his relationship with mikey. why he was so devasted when syd quit and why he started his dream restaurant with her after she came back.

because we dont get an intimate look into carmys psyche when creating a dish, its harder to say but based off his monolouge in braciole (s01e8) and the way he uses food to connect with people he loves rather than having passion for it independently i can surmise that carmy isn't imaginative as sydney. food is more like a math equation (ironic)/a science.

“he’s the best bc he didn’t have any of the bullshit”, emotional ties/relationships of any kind. his career esp at EMP were isolating, rigid and cold. he was the best bc he was calculating, precise and competitive. which breeds excellence in his field while straying him further away from love and true passion.

i imagine carmy to be more pragmatic with creating a dish.

but carmy is a creative person at his core and while creating a dish might not be as colorful as when sydney does it. we do know that carmy can draw and visualize his ideas onto paper. "Sistine Chapel" level drawings according to syd.

sydney + carmy - potential true partnership

on my 3rd rewatch, i couldn't help but feel so dissatisfied with their partnership. granted this is on purpose since the show is only 2 seasons in and they are trying to do a slow burn in all aspects, not just romantic.

it really hit me that carmy and sydney have never - at least on screen - created a meal together. in s1, we never see the risotto come to fruition, we just get carmys input but never the finished product. in s2 finally, carmy and Sydney work together now that their dynamic has changed from boss and employee to partners. we get like what? 4 scenes of them creating the menu, and having this amazing professional chemistry but ultimately leads to two failed dishes, which would be ok if they worked together after that. but they dont...

instead for the rest of the season, we see them (mainly Syd) working on the menu separately. the menu is....alright. mainly has carmy written all over it (he has a the seven fishes + cannolis, weird homage to one of the worst nights of his life).

*putting on another pair of shipper goggles to say this makes the whole "you make me better at this" confession, even more mind-boggling bc better at what? you guys haven't even worked together all season. this = life , i rest my case*

in s3 and beyond, im excited for them to truly start working together as partners and actually see them create a dish together.

i want to see how their approaches to creating a dish can help the other.

how sydneys creative process can help carmy

besides the obvious romantic implications of the palette cleanser outing, the potential for them to understand each other on a deeper level in regards to food is something i mourn everyday.

after sydney goes on her trip solo, we see her ride the ferry and just take a look at her surroundings. shes thinking about the food she ate, shes looking at buildings, windows, looking at the snow. all inspiration for a dish.

imagine if carmy was there with her. he would be curious about what she's thinking about, get insight on how she creates and maybe want to learn to see food in a less practical way.

i mean he hadn't drawn in years it seems until he was inspired by sydney and the chaos menu to draw again....now imagine if he didn't ruin the moment by bringing up claire (LMFAO). the point is, sydney naturally sparks creativity and passion in him, even when they aren't together.

i know many people are theorizing that carmy will leave the culinary industry (and i agree most of the time) but i also think sydney is slowly but surely helping him discover/re-discover a passion for cooking. i think that carmy likes that sydney likes to take care of people because subconsciously he knows he does the same thing or has the potential for it (i.e making tiff sprite from scratch when she was experiencing morning sickness). evidenced by fishes (s02e6), care often feels like an obligation (he takes care of drunk donna when shes going through an episode) but it doesnt have to be this way. and now carmy wants to get a star for her....their interests are slowly aligning.

how carmys creative process can help sydney

this isn't as concrete as the one above but i found it interesting thinking about how carmys more pragmatic approach and sydneys idealistic approach can work in tandem.

first scene in pop (s02e5) shows sydney and tina late at night working on the tasting menu. later in the episode we find out that carmy has been pushing back menu planning leaving sydney on her own. she trying an elements concept which is extremly creative and impressive but even tina says, which sydney later agrees, that its a lot for a tasting menu.

im stretching maybe....but based on carmys comment on her risotto from the season before (needs acid) + his practical approach, it seems like he acts like a buffer when sydneys ideas get "a lot".

*in chemistry buffers are solutions added to resist pH changes when acidic and basic components are added*

so if carmy needs to be more creative and sometimes sydneys ambitions gets ahead of her....

sydney is the heart, while carmy is the brain (???)

one cannot work without the other. when they truly come together to create the menu, they both need to learn from one another to elevate the restaurant. not to mention with carmy's italian american roots and syd's Nigerian-Caribbean/southern roots, they have the potential for amazing fusion dishes and real partnership. i and others want the menu to physically reflect both of them.

conclusion

i literally dont know where im going with this. sorta kinda meta but its more like hopes and dreams for next season and me wanting to type my ideas down.

they complement each other well ok? and have potential for a great partnership once they communicate better. i like this part of the definition of yin and yang:  Their interaction is thought to maintain the harmony of the universe and to influence everything within it.

carmy and Sydney are the leaders of the bear, their relationship is foundational to the success of their restauarnt and team, once they work together truly, play to their strengths and weaknesses, then will come true harmony in their universe.

bonus

more sydcarm parallels/similaries/differences/yin yang moments:

carmys gold chain, syds silver earrings

carmys white t-shirts, syds white button ups

carmy is bad at math, syds great with numbers

carmy wasn't really great at school, this is sorta fanon but i can imagine syd excelled in school

both wear birkenstocks (more a chef thing but i still think its cute)

sunshine x grumpy trope but like better...usually the sunshine (syd) is more emotionally vulnerable making a space for grumpy (Carm), but they switch positions. carmy allows sydney to be more emotionally vulnerable often initiating deep conversations, while syd is more closed up/guarded

overall tho i think its cute that they are both shy/emotionally stunted but i do think purely aesthetic wise, sydney has a softer exterior ( doe eyes, colourful scarves, awkward) while carmy is more intimidating (tats, smokes, looks angry all the time)

both fight dirty - i.e their individual fights with richie (review, the bear)

carmy tho is more prone to outbrusts of anger/violence while sydney lets that shit shimmer until she explodes on you

both their passcode being 11111

carmy having dark mode on his phone, syd having light mode in s2

their matching clothes moments earlier in the second season and in bolognese

if theres more, pls comment/reblog, bc i always think of this shit and need more to cry about

fin!

credits: gif 1&2 , gif 3 and gif 4

[yangsharperavery]

i do find the contrast between body language/nonverbal communication and verbal communication with these two so fascinating.

especially as carmy and sydney navigate each other in a space where there's clearly something that exists between them that one, or both of them, aren't conscious of yet.

as they struggle so significantly with verbal communication, we see the way they use nonverbal communication via their bodies and mannerisms and facial expressions to convey how they feel and what they want.

what sticks out to me is the way that carmy shakes and nods his head when he and sydney are having a serious, intimate or important conversation.

as if he knows himself well enough to know that his verbal agreement or response would fall short so he simply moves his head in affirmation. letting his energy convey the rest.

this is also part of why he uses his gaze and eye contact the way that he does. he's speaking to her without words.

they often stand so close to one another. like... all the time.

in many of their scenes, one could say this is a stylistic or director's choice for the shot but that makes zero sense because the shots with everyone else don't have that level of physical closeness except for some of the obvious kitchen (behind!) scenes. carmy and sydney's closeness is almost tactile even though they only touch a handful of times.

which is why the wall tear down scene is so amusing because they literally had no reason to be in each others face like that.

carmy got in her space, looked at the demo/the guys before he turned back to sydney, but she only moved away from him after they made eye contact and she said "yeah, exactly".

as if it was super normal for him to be that close to her, whether he was looking at her or not.

the under the table moment is incredibly intimate for a number of reasons. they're already incredibly close because there's not a lot of space under there, but not only do they situate and move their bodies within the confines of that space notating physical proximity, carmy reaches out and fiddles with her side of the table, which posits her energetically directly underneath him. not just beside him.

conceptually, that is almost the closest he could be to her without actively touching her.

nevermind that moments later his fidgeting hand starts to quicken when she looks up at him and they have that moment of prolonged eye contact.

again, a form of nonverbal communication practically shouting. she can't see his hand, but we do.

the wordlessness of that particular moment, especially after they had managed to say some of the most vulnerable, affirming and comforting phrases they'd ever uttered to one another up to that point (their best verbal communication yet), is pretty extraordinary.

when they're talking about the veal fat in s1, and she's reaching over her head and says the right answer and he turns to look at her, they're SO physically close.

when they're cooking at his apt and he's cutting tape, he's so physically close to her, his shoulder is practically leaning into hers when she teases him about the chef's whites.

even in the meeting with cicero, if you look at the three of them sitting behind the table, sydney is closer to carmy than nat and carmy has his arm out, mere centimeters from sydney's elbow.

before they start their back and forth about stars, when sydney says "we're going to be better", their arms are practically touching.

even when she's walking out after saying goodnight and carmy gitches, she walks so close to him to leave. his body fully turns to accommodate and follow her energy, she almost literally physically brushes past him.

claire kind of moves out of the way but sydney walks into carmy's space and he moves his focus/attention with her as she exits.

if you watch it happen, he acquiesces to her energy and presence like a human revolving door. again, nonverbal communication.

the doorframe isn't that narrow. she could have easily said whatever polite thing to claire and not gotten THAT close to carmy to say "i'm saying goodnight."

there are a bunch of examples of their physical closeness that doesn't make sense outside of gravitational pull, a desire to be that close to one another and nonverbal communication.

sydney's body language after the under the table moment and before receiving her gift is also a huge tell, even though it's not directed at, or meant to be communicative towards, him. she's clearly impacted by what occurred.

of the two, i think sydney is the closest to realizing that what exists between them is far beyond professional likeness, purpose or partnership.

the way she's obviously trying not to get mad at him when she says "well tell claire thanks then", you physically can see her stuffing something down.

even carmy can see it, he says something about it. sydney actually does this alot with carmy specifically, ayo is so damn skilled at it.

we've seen her get mean or be reactionary with richie, tina and marcus.

but never carmy. even when she walked out on him s1, in the midst of a highly emotionally volatile scene, she didn't raise her voice.

that's why she doesn't argue with or lash out at carmy, even though it's often warranted, she doesn't want to hurt him. doesn't want to make him feel bad. doesn't want to be angry or annoyed with him.

but why? she has no problem being upfront and direct and again, even argumentative if she needs to be. but never with carmy.

to me, it seems like she doesn't want to display too much emotion with or in front of him.

but why? does the range and depth of those emotions scare her? are they messy? are they warranted? are they illuminating?

sydney is very protective of carmy (and of herself emotionally). see how she reacts when richie talks shit or when her father questions her trust in him. or even when nat makes that snide remark after he gets locked in the walk in.

she cares a lot about carmy's emotional and mental fragility and feelings.

when she came back to "get her check" they don't hash it out or fight. he just stares at her, with this unbridled relief that he can't articulate but we all see it! it's so obvious he can't even start speaking right away.

and then he launches into talking about the dining space for a new restaurant and she forgot why she was mad.

it's like when the person you have a crush on does something cute or sweet and the dumb or mean thing they did right before it completely leaves your mind.

none of this is written in the dialogue of this show. it's all nonverbal communication, toward each other or to us, the audience.

[thoughtfulchaos773]

I'll never stop talking about the table scene.

But Carmy and Sydney were fully aware of how intimate the conversation was getting. Specfically, when Carmy says, "I wouldn't even want to do without you"

Sydney stopped 'fixing' the table, and she shyly looked up at him as Carmy stared at the floor.

Oh, and Carmy's own reaction to what he said to Sydney.

Then he hit her with, "You know you... you make me better at this, " and it was so honest and soft, and his brows furrowed as if he's slowly realizing what he's feeling.

Gif @fruityzari

Oh, and Sydney the way she looked down and shrugged the hidden glances. She knew it, too. Because she says it back, and he gives a small nod of understanding, a "So, you feel it too?" Moment between them.

Gif by @fruityzari

I love this little exchange because of their body language. I think this is the moment their dynamic, chemistry, whatever was happening between them was coming to the surface, and they were going deeper than they've ever gone before.

I'll also say that Carmy went there first.

[josru]

Analysis of Names

Sydney: means "wide meadow", or "wide water meadow", or "From Saint Denis"

Carmen: means "garden or orchard", or "vineyard of God"

Claire: means "bright, clear"

Luca: means "light"

So from what I've googled and read about, Syd and Carm's names match the most. Obviously it conveys a sort of matching creativity- both characters are filled with the abundance of ideas and passion growing in their personal gardens/meadows.

But a wide meadow is a wild, grassy, overgrown ground, full of plants, kind of like how Sydney is still a little more fresh and new than Carmy, and she's got lots of ideas, but they're not streamlined yet. She's still learning how to trim things down, just like all those scenes in S2 where she's cooking and trying and messing up things.

Now Carmen being represented by a garden/orchard/a vineyard of god makes a lot of sense. He's worked at so many different fine dining restaurants so it checks out that he would be a meticulously crafted, trimmed to perfection garden, just like every perfectly made dish that he served.

Alternatively, an orchard is a bunch of cultivated trees meant to create fruit or some other kind of crop, typically existing for high levels of output. A vineyard of God as described in the Bible typically means that these trees must bear fruit, they're not for decoration. These latter meanings indicate that Carmy is more professional and simply creates a lot more because his process is a lot more streamlined and personally necessary in comparison to Sydney and her meadow.

A small slight connection (but most likely unintentional) between Sydney's "from saint-denis" meaning and Carmy's "vineyard of God" meaning, is that Saint-Denis is a suburb in Paris, France, and they have a massive vineyard there called Morey-Saint-Denis. Saint Denis was also a patron saint of Paris, which connects Saint-Denis and by extension; Sydney, back to God and religion. Interesting that this also represents a vineyard of God, right?

If I had more faith in the show, I would assume this is also a sydcarmy connection. But I have a feeling that this is a stretch/coincidence. Plus I don't remember Syd and Carm ever cooking with wine or talking about Paris (lol).

But otherwise, I think overall, Syd and Carm's names do kind of associate nature, harvest/abundance, and God. Kind of like divine inspiration/creation, which actually checks out. A lot of their important scenes are them bouncing ideas off each other, and then creating together, and you also understand their different skill levels as attributed by their name meanings. I love the idea of them being intertwined in a sort of fateful, holy act of creation.

What I also find really interesting is Luca and Claire's names having a very similar meaning as well. Claire's name might be a very on-the-nose comment of her being the clear choice over Sydney, over the restaurant, but it also ties into this whole thing of giving "peace" Carm and bringing brightness to people's lives (the whole, I just wanna take care of people thing.)

On the other hand, Claire might actually be providing clarity to Carmy in a different way. Like a harsh reality check. She shows him he'll never be normal and that freaks him out. She's tied to his abusive boss for some reason- maybe clarity is more tongue in cheek here, meaning like how anxiety makes you think your worst thoughts are the most clear and true. It would explain Carmy's panic attacks about Claire- he feels like he must meet his familial expectations of being with her, but he doesn't exactly like her, because she's been foisted on him.

Maybe by being the "clear" choice, it also indicates that she might not be the right one. The best choice often isn't the easiest one, and you could argue Claire's existence is meant to provide clarity to Carmy about his feelings on Sydney and the Bear.

Now, Luca meaning light I actually understood almost immediately. (Sorry Claire; the writers did you dirty lol). Because Luca has always had a sort of hopeful presence, like a positive beacon of light reaching out to the other characters. He helps Marcus in finding his way in Copenhagen. He is a calming light to Sydney during the party, to the point where you feel like she's drawn much more to him than Carmy.

So overall I'm kind of thinking of Sydney and Carmy as two sides of the same coin, and Luca and Claire as the two things beckoning to them. Luca is a light for Sydney, as the Bear and Carmy shut her down. Claire is supposed clarity for Carmy, making him feel like things are obviously supposed to be this way, with her.

I feel that Sydcarmy was meant to be tied by being similar in nature, and now we have some (kind of) evidence of that, and that they're being pulled away. The only difference is that Syd's pulling away feels more positive than Carmy's does. Maybe because she's still a relatively unchanged meadow, and she can still pursue other things due to not being permanently changed like Carmen has been.

Anyways take all this with a grain of salt. I know typically things like names are usually foreshadowing, but with Christopher Storer and Co., and how they've left a bunch of hanging threads, I don't know. They may have picked these names purely for the aesthetic.

[turbulenthandholding]

Carmy's re-introduction to Claire in Pasta

I was talking to @thoughtfulchaos773 recently about the scene where Carmy re-meets Claire at the grocery store in S2E2. From what I've seen, I think the pervasive interpretation of him not recognizing her at first is that he's lying about it or pretending not to recognize her initially (to avoid her, probably). But I was thinking...what if he doesn't actually recognize her?

In the season 3 trailer, there's a scene (around 1:27) of Claire and Carmy looking at each other. Carmy appears to be wearing the same shirt that he wore during Fishes (also Theodore Fak I think in the background). I wonder if we are going to find out that Claire was there that night, after Donna crashed her car into the house.

There's a condition called Dissociative Amnesia, which is a rare condition where your mind protects you from traumatic experiences, including episodes of violence and abuse, by blocking the memories from being retrieved and actively remembered.

Fishes contains a whole lot of stress and negative experiences for everyone at the dinner, but especially for Carmy. And it culminates in Donna crashing her car into the house. If Claire was there that night and was a witness to the trauma or its aftermath, it makes sense to me that the whole thing could have been upsetting enough to Carmy that his mind would block those memories out, including of Claire's presence, of her in general.

And if Claire was present for this very traumatic thing that happened to Carmy, he disassociated and forgot her, and she pushed herself back into his life by getting his phone number from Fak...that's a lot. (Granted, the trauma was not her fault.) And it seems like a very tall or even impossible order to build a relationship with someone who was there for one of your most traumatic memories, so much so that your brain blocked the memories of that person in a spell of retrograde dissociative amnesia. The trauma would always be there, under the surface of the relationship, especially if it was never addressed with therapy.

[freedelusionshere]

Another really aggravating thing (and I came in late to being a fan of The Bear) was the enormous amount of effort made in the media writing about Claire and talking about Claire and it’s really just people fighting over JAW Carmy like territory and gate keeping.

A lot of people like that character as a self-insert and I would be just so enormously grateful if the show just killed that dead as not what Carmy wants and in fact he wants Syd and has all along and has thrown every material thing he can to try to prove to her he’s worthy, until all he’s gonna have left is his little broken poet/artist heart.

Which is what made her fall for him to begin with.

[notyourdaisybuchanan]

Rewatching The Bear 2x03 is actually crazy and feels so clarifying because like...

The ep starts with Carmy speaking at Al-Anon about fun, and how maybe he needs to have more of it. He acknowledges that fun is complicated for him because as a kid his family tended to ruin things for him, even though this was often unintentionally done. He says that he thinks if he had more amusement or enjoyment in his own life then it would be easier to provide that for other people. (Big note here that part of the purpose OF a restaurant is to provide amusement and enjoyment for people. Then add in Luca's conversation with Marcus in 2x04 about how the best food comes from being open and inspired, and spending time in the world. So Carmy having fun could theoretically make him better at his job.)

Anyway, Carmy gives that spiel at Al-Anon. Then we get a brief interlude of Syd looking at articles about recent restaurant closings and being stressed.

And then we're immediately back with Syd and Carmy cooking together in his kitchen. She fucks up a dish again, and he suggests they stop cooking and do a palate reset.

Like... this all happens within the first five minutes of the ep. This man has been musing about how he needs to have more fun.... and then he suggests spending the day eating in the city with Syd..... ergo that's his definition of fun. This is literally him making an attempt at doing something for amusement or enjoyment!! He planned this!! I fully believe he had this idea even before Sydney fucked up the dish. This man said I need to have more fun and you know what would be fun? Spending the day with my business partner eating delicious food. So he sends her home with plans to meet in an hour.

And then. AND THEN. Claire calls. First of all when she asks if he's busy, he looks at the white board and the very first thing on the To Do list is "call fridge guy" so like. lmao. I love foreshadowing. And he literally is busy!!! Not with unpleasant tasks to do but with something FUN. Something fun that he planned FOR himself.

And what is it that Claire asks him to do? Is it something fun? No. She asks him to HELP HER MOVE her mom. Like, the least fun task in the history of anything, the thing that people historically HATE being asked to help with. And he doesn't look excited about it! He looks torn. He looks...weird idk. Like ohhhh it's actually so crazy that Carmy bails on a truly fun day with Sydney in order to do a manual labor favor for Claire.

This is so ripe for analysis you simply cannot tell me it doesn't mean anything.

Carmy thinks about how he needs more fun, plans a fun day for himself, and then, when someone he tried to avoid asks him to do a not fun favor, he says yeah, I'll do that instead.

[outmakingmoonshine]

I was just writing a post about the Carmy/Faks scene & how it's really just Carmy talking to himself. For this scene the two Faks represent his inner voices/subconscious (which might only apply to this scene idk), but then I decided to see what all these scenes looked like together and wow am I glad I did!! Seeing these 4 scenes side by side is very interesting.

The first two scenes in 3x05 & 3x07 mirror each other, the last two scenes in 3x09 mirror each other and all 4 of them tell their own story together. The first scene is Carmy's talking to himself but shouting & aiming it at anyone who's listening. The 2nd is Syd talking to herself but mostly mumbling so only she can hear. In the Faks scene Carmy's having an "imaginary" conversation out loud with two people, just like Syd's doing in the last scene rehearsing what she might say to both Adam Shapiro and Carmy.

And if you rearrange these scenes & put the first 2 after the Faks scene, if we saw/heard those sarcastic "that makes sense" comments after we saw the "Claire is peace" scene in that exact same location, it would've been a lot easier to figure out what they're really referring to!

There are lots of layers to unpack here but I'm gonna talk about the main things that jump out at me. This is probably gonna be a bit chaotic with different ideas and breakdowns of what things could mean so I hope it's not too confusing. Anyone else feel free to jump in with your thoughts.

Below the cut

Notice how in all these scenes, except one, Carmy and Syd are alone talking out loud to themselves, vocalizing their inner thoughts. Mute the video and just read the subtitles if you need to. The scene with the Faks reads like a conversation with imaginary friends or like the two funny inner voices of a character in a comedy movie. All these scenes are like they're from a comedy movie tbh.

In the first two scenes Carmy & Syd act the same way they both deal with their problems (Carmy shouting about it to anyone who'll listen and Syd pissed but mostly keeping it quiet/to herself). They're the only ones actually inside the dumpster in all the scenes which makes me think it represents their minds and the boxes are the mental chaos & thoughts they're trying to sort through. The Faks are technically outside Carmy's mind/the dumpster so they don't speak from the mind or for the mind but they're close to it, communicating with it & "helping" sort through the chaos. Maybe the dumpster represents the conscious mind and the Faks are Carmy's subconscious. It sounds like The Faks are encouraging Carmy to fall back into his base programming, which people often tend to do when they're lost and don't know what to do. They're trying to convince him to call Claire bc Carmy's base programming from his family is "Claire is good". That's what safe to him bc it's a "truth" he's always known & believed. Idk there's many possibilities. It's also Interesting how later this episode The Faks go to Claire and speak directly for Carmy like they know for sure what he's thinking & feeling.

Lets get into the dialogue of the first two scenes:

"[Carmy] That makes sense. [box clatters] Boxes full of bullshit. Put it on the f*cking list. Oh, it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it."

Just a side note: The next line in the script is "I don't know wha-what I'm supposed to do with all this stuff" from Marcus in the next scene where he's clearing out all his mum's stuff with Syd.

"[Syd] 'Cause why would you do it? I mean, you're supposed to do it. This is-- This is fine. This is good. This makes sense. This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking-- Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"

I don't even know where to start, there's so many ways to read this!

Carmy said one specific thing in the Faks scene that very clearly "didn't make sense"...Claire is peace. He knows that's not true but I think the point is he's been avoiding thinking about who his peace actually is all S3*. Carmy & Syd are both sarcastically saying "that makes sense" like it's subtly referring to that scene later in the same place. Was the panic attack scene by the same dumpsters? Idk someone let me know please.

*Carmy said in 3x07 he tries to avoid thinking about legacy. The only legacy we know of is the one he's trying to build with Syd both professionally and personally. His realization that Syd's brings him peace in the panic attack in 2x09 is the reality of his legacy that he's been trying to avoid all S3. He's working to get her his star and creating dishes inspired by her so Syd's cearly on his mind but the one thing he should be thinking about and talking to her about, he's avoiding.

There are many different layers of possible meaning and/or foreshadowing in this dialogue, but one layer it can be read is how they're both thinking/feeling about the Claire situation bc even tho Syd didn't mention it all season it's still there between them. Maybe none of this is about Claire, but if it was:

Carmy: "[sarcastically] that makes sense"...claire is "peace". "Boxes full of bullsh*t"...he's full of bullshit that Claire's his peace?!! Or maybe Claire is in the boxes of bullshit aka his baggage and past trauma he needs to sort through? "Put it on the "f*cking list"...put Claire on the list of his stress & baggage? And a very sarcastic "Oh it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it." He'll do what he's "supposed to do" with Claire & call her/apologize/maybe even be with her even tho it clearly sounds like he doesn't want to..?? He's "got it"...even though he clearly doesn't. "It's good" but she's clearly not The Good Thing™.

Syd: "Cause why wouldn't you do it? I mean you're supposed to do it"...why won't carmy just sort himself out? why wont he just call claire/be with claire since Syd thinks that's what he wants & she acts in front of him like "it's not her place to be [beside him on a personal level]" almost direct quote from her in 3x09. She's probabaly confused why Carm just wont be with Claire. From Syd's perspective he changed his mind about her and chose Claire in S2, so the next logical step is he'd be with Claire. "This is fine. This is good. This makes sense."...carmy saying claire is peace & also probably how she'll react out loud if carmy/claire get back together. "This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking--"...this is how she really feels about the whole Claire situation & Carmy just ditching her & "changing shit" (that came up a lot this season), which ultimately led to him not treating her like a partner in their professional relationship. "Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"...a direct lead in to Carmy's scene in the exact same place 2 episodes later.

Sydney's dialogue in 3x07 scene also reads like a run-on of Carmy's dialogue in 3x05, continuing his thoughts trying to convince himself of what he should do with Claire but he's panicking so he calls for the Fak's, his imaginary friends/inner voices, who are there with him the next time we see him in that spot. From the dialogue it makes sense but idk if we've ever seen the show do that with Syd before so idk. Sydney is clearly definied as her own character but she is definied as a mirror of Carmy too so it's a possibility.

Of course this is all interpretation, some or none of this could be directly about Claire but idk. The location (esp if it's in the same place he had the 2x09 panic attack), all the "coincidental" dialogue, the way all these scenes tie together...and with the panic attack scene and the opposing realizations Carmy comes to about Syd & Claire in 2x09 & 3x09. It wasn't a "realization" about Claire in 3x09, he didn't even look like he believed what he was saying tbh. It looked like he just made it up on the spot.

It's also interesting that these scenes by the dumpsters are the quivalent of S1 & 2's walk in scenes where both Syd & Carmy go for a moment of peace to clear their thoughts and "cool off". We don't see those this season but we do get these which is more like them sorting out all the chaotic thoughts & feelings inside them, separating the "trash" from the good stuff, "the bad from the good" like Carmy said he wanted/needed to do to achieve his legacy in 3x07.

In the Faks scene listen to all the "we" and "us" talk;

"If we did it when it was scheduled. We do though. We do it, Carm. All we do is break down boxes. We break 'em down and we have to do it again. Who would wanna haunt us? Who's pissed at us? Sammy's pissed at us."

Until Claire is mentioned (a sobering thought for Carmy) and it's suddenly "Not us. Just you. Not us." Reality hit for a moment and the imaginary friends want to separate themselves from him because they're not "real" & they didn't upset Claire so she can't be mad at them. I think Carmy is the only "real" one in this scene. The Faks are the imaginary friends/inner voices that seem like they're helping the main character but they're really just causing more chaos and leading him down the wrong path because they're misunderstanding what he wants based on what he's forcing himself to think about; Claire. (I lowkey think Carmy's forcing memories of Claire to stop himself from thinking about Sydney.)

The transition of Carmy talking to himself with The Fak's representing two parts of his mind aka "two minds" going straight into Syd talking to herself & voicing out loud what she'd say to both Shapiro and Carmy like she's having a mental conversation with two different people and that she's in "two minds". "I wanted to start off by saying I'm grateful" sounds formal and directed at Adam Shapiro. "Ok so I wanted to talk to you..." sounds more personal and directed at Carmy. It's a similar concept of being in two minds used in a slightly different context but in this show and the writing specifically, context is all over the place anyway.

Also the transition into the Syd scene is to drive home the point that Carmy was just having a conversation with himself, trying to convince himself that Claire is peace, she's "good" etc. For this scene (and possibly this scene only) Theodore is the stubborn part of Carmy that doesn't like to be pushed around who thinks stuff like "Yeah but I'd see his ass" about Sammy Fak. And you know there's a part of Carmy that would have that attitude but the conscious part of him is smarter than that. Neil is the more sweet, anxious side of Carmy that is kind of "away with the fairies" a little bit, in his own head a lot. Carmy is the regular, conscious, "real" Carmy trying to figure out the mental mess he's in.

I think transitioning into that Syd scene was also to callback to the only other times Syd or Carmy spoke aloud to themselves. I might be forgetting something but I think all these scenes are the only times we see either of them have full conversations with themselves out loud in S3..? Someone let me know if that's wrong please.

Side note- From one perscpective: Carmy's reaction to Theodore calling Claire "a piece of ass" was so...unaffected??! Could you imagine if someone said that about Syd?? He bit Richie's head off for calling her "sweetheart" in 1x01 and physically put himself between them so I can't imagine he'd take it that lightly if it was about Syd...From another perpective, if this scene is all about Carmy's inner thoughts, is he asking himself if that's how he sees Claire? I don't think he does intentionally but it's a valid question considering the show seems to use physical intimacy as a substitute for any real connection between them. If Claire & Carmy never kissed or had sex, would anyone see that relationship as a romance?? I really don't think so tbh, the physical initmacy is the only thing about their scenes that confirms it's supposed to be seen as a romance. Meanwhile SydCarmy are drowning in real connection before any physical intimacy.

Anyone please feel free to jump in and add your thoughts, I'd love to know your perspectives on seeing all these scenes together @thoughtfulchaos773 @sydcarmyfan @yannaryartside @currymanganese @vacationship @afrofairysblog @greekyogurttragedy @tvfantic87 @moodyeucalyptus @gingergofastboatsmojito @ambeauty @whenmemorydies @brokenwinebox and anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome to.

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

Yeah, right!

The one who's haunting you is C. Bite me, Carmy!

Sydney is always on his mind, unconsciously.

For Carmy these words are synonyms:

Sydney = Menu = Star = Love/Passion/Purpose

All he fucking thinks about is her menu and how to get the bullshit star for her and of course, he's constantly freaking out about not being good enough trying hard enough to achieve it.

Syd's not just in the Polka dots sauce

She's everywhere because he created every single one of those dishes for her and for her bullshit star.

The colors of her headscarves inspire him too, she's all over

Everything she in the past said she likes, made the cut

He gives her flowers, he made himself for her:

He subtracted and pushed but only kept the ingredients she likes

He is connecting through food with her because it is the only way in which he knows how to show his love, he's not great with words, she's just not seeing it because she only sees he's not running stuff by her first, but in his head he doesn't have to because he's already following her wishes/tastes as it is.

Bonus track: Acid, as usual, in this context it means that he knows her the menu is imbalanced. He obviously doesn't perceive himself as the "acid" in her dishes, ofc, but Carmy is aware they are out of sync and is trying to fix it. Syd is being patient with him, because he's not the best communicator, which he conceded, btw. But she's also oblivious to the fact that he is giving her the control of changing it all if she wants to. She can't see past her frustration and he can't say the words. AWESOME! KILL ME NOW PLS!

Remember to follow my tag #Gingerpovs 💋

[brokenwinebox]

“Mold Is The Death Knell.”

After doing research and documenting it on Twitter, I decided to transfer it all here. We’re going to be talking about (2x02)’s script.

We (kinda?) got confirmation on the parallels between Donna and Claire in the script. There’s many metas I’ve most likely missed but here are the ones I remember:

Jamie’s instagram post on Claire/Donna by @espumado

Jamie Lee Curtis: A sydcarmy truther? by @thoughtfulchaos773

Scene lighting, blocking, & dialogue callbacks between Claire and The Berzattos by @currymanganese

There’s also my metas on Claire/Donna:

Claire: Ominous Or Naive

Glass Table & Glass Fish Tank

What Did You Get Out Of These ClairexCarmy Flashbacks Scenes?

If there’s metas I’ve missed, please feel free to reblog with the links!

Before seeing Claire again, Carmy was enjoying the orange sunset during magic hour while walking on Clark St.

Since I saw the words ‘orange sunset’, I automatically assumed that it was golden hour when this scene had occurred.

Blue hour is apart of magic hour as well. I read a bit about it in this article, “Mastering Golden Hour, Blue Hour (Magic Hours) and Twilights | Natural Light Photography.”

Magic hours are a more diffuse concept than twilights because there is no mathematical definition. In fact, both the golden hour and blue hour, also known as the magic hours, overlap with civil twilight.

I’m wondering if they tried to capture golden and blue hour at the grocery store with artificial lighting instead of natural lighting to insinuate a fakeness to their reunion/relationship.

I also happened to stumble upon another potential meaning to golden hour. A person’s golden hour is the first hour after a severe internal injury.

Granted, being cut by sharp objects like glass is an external injury. But, in the dialogue, Claire talks about how the girl was bleeding and they couldn’t figure out what the source was. Wouldn’t you be able to tell where the bleeding stemmed from if it was just external? It could mean there was internal damage as well.

Mold is the death knell which is a sounding of a bell to mark someone’s death or used to refer to the imminent destruction or failure of something.

(A bell to mark the death of Mikey and the failure of The Bear?)

There was a discussion of mold pertaining to Claire and the potential meaning of it in @moodyeucalyptus’s meta on Claire being a bad doctor with @vacationship’s reblog about how penicillin is an antibiotic coming from green and blue mold while fennel is a natural antibiotic.

All of this to say mold is the death knell, golden hour is also a term used in the medical field for trauma patients, and that girl that Claire told Carmy about was a trauma patient that was given penicillin while having an allergy to it by Claire reading her chart wrong.

There’s so many interesting details in the network draft/script! If I’m wrong about any of this, let me know of course. As always, thank you so much for reading! If I haven’t replied to your comments or reblogs lately, I was shadowbanned briefly before getting my account back so yay! If you tagged me, I didn’t see them unfortunately :(

[yannaryartside]

The freeze response towards Claire doesn’t make sense

Or does it? Why it doesn’t apply to Syd?

I may do an extensive revision on this but I wanna get this out of my chest.

The freeze response is something that happens when you believe you are in danger.

Yk the ways people respond to danger: fleeting, freezing or fighting. These are our basic instincts. Animals have it, we have it. We learn which one works the best for us since early childhood.

Tw: discussions of mental and emotional abuse.

Carmy had an abusive mother and a toxic family dynamic and learned to freeze, aka, never speak, never complain, pretend everything is fine and keep you head down, and you may get some love in return. Take all the abuse you need to take.

The freeze response makes sense towards Donna and Chef David because he felt in danger with them (they were mentally and verbally abusive). Carmy was stuck in a vicious circle trying to live to the standards of his former chef because, as a child, he never learned to fight back abuse.

And then we have Syd, and the freeze response doesn’t work with her, because he trusts her in all the way he never trusted in his mom or former chef.

Syd and Carmy have a bond, affection and clear boundaries and expectations. The guilt has little space because forgiveness and love make space for responsibility and hope. Moreover, she never applies to their dynamic the same toxic behaviors he is so used to (gaslighting, threats, passive-aggressive passing comments, the list goes o. Sydney has done none of that, not even when it would be kind of justified, that’s not who she is)

So walk with me here a minute, idk if I am making sense, but this has been wrecking my brain.

Why the hell would the freezer response apply to Claire? He has never been in danger with her; she is not a threat, not physically or verbally. He sometimes has panic attacks around her, but why?

When he is in the anon meeting, he seems to relate asking for forgiveness with guilt. Does that mean he thinks Claire and him don’t have enough of a bond? Enough for her to forgive him? Or is something else?

Back to the scene with the Faks mentioning the critics, Carmy sees all their faces and then the note “call Claire” in the white board and says “I hate this feeling”

I don’t think Carmy is afraid of asking for forgiveness or even being rejected. He associates calling Claire with the feeling of the critics coming to his restaurant. This is for him all the same.

I think what Carmy is afraid of is being judged.

What I mean by judged is being asked to put his reasoning and feelings on the table about the situation. (kinda amazing restaurant metaphor when you think about it)

When you are in an abusive relationship, a great part of the dynamic is making you feel like your feelings (specifically the ones that let you know you are being abused) don’t matter. So, you dissociate and learn to ignore your feelings.

Carmy is afraid of putting all of himself in a situation and still being treated unfairly, because that is what happens when you are abused.

Why the hell Claire inspires in him the same feelings as the critics he never loved or actually known? Because Carmy learned to feel judged and never good enough for his primary provider of love and approval: Donna.

So he is not afraid of asking for forgiveness; he is afraid that Claire will tell him, “You were never good enough for me, I don’t love you anymore,” because that’s how his mother made him feel.

He is afraid of confronting his responsibility in this situation (failing as a boyfriend) and is scared of failing as a chef for the same reason: so he doesn't feel worthless. Failing to be loved by Donna (and Mickey) is what got him obsessed with succeeding as a chef.

Nobody would logically think that failing as a boyfriend of a chef makes you worthless, but I fairly believe that's what Carmy thinks; that's why the freeze response is so hard to break through.

Carmy's fear of being judged by Claire is due to trauma, and you could say he can learn to get over that and be with her. You could also say he deeply fears not being good enough for Syd, either.

But, and this is totally my opinion; each person works a different way, but this is my sydcarmy justification, and I am gonna put it in big letters because I am that obnoxious:

If Claire has managed to make Carmy feel he would be worthless/judged unfairly for making a mistake, but Syd makes him feel secure and capable of self-actualization even when he makes mistakes...I am sorry, what other fucking evidence could you possibly need?

I am sorry, but that is just mind-wrecking. These two bonds are not even in the same vicinity. Claire is not the solution to the problem; she is the continuation of it, and only Syd breaks the pattern.

Seriously, all kissy bubbly happy uncomplicated girl Claire? "Never apologize" Claire? all of that just for Carmy to actually never trusting her? We now have two scenes (2x09 and Doors) of Carmy having panic attacks while thinking of Claire (or trying to think of her to calm himself down and failing). Only so that in both scenes is Sydney the one who manages to calm him down.

The similarities between Claire and Donna may be the clue here, even its are very subtle and goes unnoticed for most viewers. Carmy can still see Donna in Claire and that’s the danger.

This was a very conscious choice by the writers. They wrote Syd like the whole antithesis of Donna (Syd patience and kindness as a response to aggression and toxicity) and yet the writers themselves told us that Claire reminds Carmy of Donna (there is this description of the day they met in the original script that has Carmy looking at Claire and confusing her with Donna, probably because Claire was supposed to be blonde, but that’s what to suspicious to put if you are writing a love interest.

Claire is a doctor for gods sake, we have multiple shots this season of showing her taking care of others. But Carmy still doesn’t feel safe with her. Has Carmy’s instincts picked up some of the clues of Donna and Claire using similar tactics to get what they want? Aka this magnificent post by @habaritess. Maybe it has to do with the feeling many people in this fandom have about Claire being a caregiver as a power play?

Is not that I want to imply the strength of a bond is a reference of how much they trigger your trauma. Love is a feeling. Love is created in the heart, but relationships are made by people.

Syd and Donna are opposite, and Donna and Claire are similar. That’s the underlying code to decipher this thing.

Posts that did an amazing job of disclosing all the foreshadowing:

Claire: Ominous Or Naive

Glass Table & Glass Fish Tank

What Did You Get Out Of These ClairexCarmy Flashbacks Scenes?

Jamie’s instagram post on Claire/Donna by @espumado

Jamie Lee Curtis: A sydcarmy truther? by @thoughtfulchaos773

Scene lighting, blocking, & dialogue callbacks between Claire and The Berzattos by @currymanganese

anyhow, thank you for reading, hope all that made some sense.