#jim gordon analysis

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

How Gotham Characters' Religious Beliefs Change and Oswald Cobblepot's Fear of Hell 🔥

Inspired by @shyjusticewarrior 's post saying that we don't talk enough about Oswald's canonical fear of hell

Spoilers for S02 E12

My headcanon is that after people were resurrected, especially Theo Galavan, who Oswald saw die very clearly, some main characters (I'm thinking Jim too) kinda became agnostic. Sure, a miracle just happened, but what a weird one. Was Theo in hell? Mhm, he came back with a god complex and badass powers instead of traumatized, does it really matter?

Also let's not forget that Oswald was willing to die/okay with it multiple times, either for loved ones or because he hit rock bottom. 😢

In total, a lot of Gotham characters start out with a big fear of hell because if it's used to instill fear in Gothamites, it must be horrifying with how bad Gotham already is. And then the resurrections start.

[shyjusticewarrior]

Gothamites hate coming up with original names

Dick is named after his uncle Richard and his middle name is his father's name

Jason is named after his grandfather

Barbara is named after her mother and her brother James is named after their father

Dinah is named after her mother

Tim's middle name is Jackson and his father's name was Jack

[ichayalovesyou]

Why Do Old-School TV Duos Have SUCH MLM Vibes?!

I think there’s something very specific about the formula and writing style of non-serialized/semi-serialized shows from the 60s to 80s that featured two grown men going on wacky dangerous adventures that makes my gay little literary analysis brain go absolutely off the wall bonkers. I’m trying to figure out why!

I’m writing this on my Trek blog because I don’t think this pattern in people actually shipping these types of relationships the way they do if fandom as we know it wasn’t born via TOS in syndication. That being said! I also think it has to do with the way these shows are designed that makes myself and others OBSESSED with a specific character dynamic that feels (to me) damn near impossible to replicate in modern television. In a way that’s more than just fandom, it’s in the way TV like this was written at the time!

Further explanation under the cut!

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I think what it usually boils down to is this. There’s a charming protagonist whom without the series could not operate, frequently top billed or the title character! (See: Wild Wild West, Starsky & Hutch) BUT he doesn’t have anyone to play off of! So what do they do pretty much every single time? Give Mr. Idealized Vision of Time-Period Masculinity For Genre a second guy to rhyme with!

See but the other guy has to play opposite but parallel to our hypermasculine protagonist. So what frequently ends up happening is that in order to play off our “normal” guy, even though he’s also a white dude, is that he’s still somehow Other.

They’re always perfect for each other, and they always get into scenarios that would be written, shot and interpreted by conventional audiences as romantic IF either one of those characters were a woman! Especially at the time these shows were made in.

If the one is aggressive, the other is gentle. If the protagonist is violent, his counterpart is intellectual. If the one is stoic, the other is emotional. Which (while one size def doesn’t fit all) usually makes the second guy come off as much more queer-coded (and sometimes other minorities like neurodivergent/disabled etc) than the other because of the traits associated with masculinity vs gayness at the time! Our prime examples in these gifs are Spock, Hutch, Artemus, and also *BJ!

*(M*A*S*H is a bit of a unique case since the show flirts with queerness more openly in ways that people more into the series have explained better than me but I think it still fits the formula I’m discussing.)

Here’s the thing though right? We’ve got two best friends, and the show NEVER really feels right if one of them is missing unless the focus of the story is how A & B operate without each other while trying to find the other one. They stick with and rescue each other unfailingly in scenarios that might destroy a regular friendship.

Hell, there’s often stuff that would emotionally/physically destroy a regular person/character in modern media. But because it’s not serialized they always seem to pull through seemingly through the power of friendship alone or dealing with it off-screen! Emotional consequences? Yuck! (Unless it’s M*A*S*H or Starsky & Hutch, like I said, not monolithic)

Here’s the thing that some people might say throws a wrench into the interpretation I’m discussing. What about the absolutely non-stop parade of conventionally attractive women the main protagonist (and less frequently the supporting man) goes through?

I would reply: how many of those female characters actually emotionally impact our protagonists as characters long term?

The answer is of course, because it’s NOT serialized, almost none! Kirk can watch Edith Keeler get killed by a car accident and still be making eyes at Spock the next episode. Hawkeye can have a “life changing” romance with a Vietnamese humanitarian woman, then share a blanket with BJ next episode like she never existed!

The Doylist explanation of course is not just the fact it wasn’t serialized but also just, constant, blatant 20th century sexism. Which SUCKS!!! As well as not wanting a long term love interest to throw off the character dynamic of our duderagonists. It’s the 20th century tv equivalent of bros before hoes.

However the Watsonian explanation always seems to result in no love interest EVER being more important than what the two protagonists have no matter whether you think they’re queer or not. No attractive woman could make our reputed babe-hound protagonist abandon his buddy. There’s no earnest romance our more queer-coded supporting man doesn’t end (or get ended for him) often for the protagonist’s sake.

Now some of these women are incredibly well written and straight up GOOD matches for our guys. So why wouldn’t they get involved in something long term UNLESS!! They were in love with each other the WHOLE time?

What if protagonist (frequently the babe hound) doesnt know he’s queer, or knows but doesn’t know he’s in love with his bestie, or any number of similar fruity explanations? The supporting man also runs into this explanation but people tend to believe he’s already aware that he’s queer but either also doesn’t know he’s in love or is keeping it to himself because time-period homophobia and/or thinking (probably not unreasonably) that babe hound is straight?

Between the inherent closeness of being narrative foils. The regularly scheduled life or death drama creating sometimes insanely romantic (in the narrative if not a literal sense) drama between the two. The revolving door of weekly women they never seem to get attached to enough to leave one another. The non-serialized nature resulting in sparse personal information/history about the protagonists as a result.

I think between the very NATURE of the way tv shows were written at the time. Plus the way fandom was shaped by a dynamic that has rippled through how media works and is interpreted by fans for decades upon decades. It’s not hard to imagine getting really emotionally invested in the possibility of the protagonists being in love is a fantastic way to enjoy the media!

In conclusion, it’s really fun and easy to go “these bitches gay! Good for them good for them!”

[ambriel-angstwitch]

Batman Hush Part 4

(Batman 614-616)

Bruce really does try to kill this man. But people keep stopping him. First Superman now Catwoman.

I do like Bruce’s monologue and I do think it’s could be true. He’d 100% feel guilty about it and probably get mad at himself for it after the rage fades but I don’t think he’d truly regret it. He wouldn’t want to undo it I don’t think.

I think it’s interesting his commentary on his sons. Dick was remarkably talented but one thing Bruce fails to mention here is that Dick also had something Bruce wanted to help him work through just like Jason. Dick had grief which Bruce understood better than rage. (Though let’s be real Dick has also had rage. I mean he wanted to kill his parents killer.)

Once again somebody else stops Bruce from killing for his son, and everyone else the Joker hurt. It’s interesting that every plea not to end Joker is usually not a moral plea rather a plea for Bruce. They know that the world won’t be worse if Batman kills Joker but they don’t think that Batman will surprise.

Though all these people stopping him makes me wonder why he failed to mention any of this to Jason. Like I feel like when Jason asked “Why didn’t you avenge me?” saying “Superman stoppped me and then Catwoman and then Jim said he’d send the entirety of the police department to hunt me down if I did so�� is a pretty good defense

Not Tim and Dick gossiping at their Dad’s friends funeral. That’s such a brother thing to do though. Tim’s like “Are we supposed to know this guy?”

I love Bruce’s comment on his sons how they fill his life. I just love when he expresses love for his children (even if not directly to them)

That’s definitely not traumatizing at all to see your dear friends face overlayed on top of your sons

What about the relationships he’s had with men? (I’m going to be honest I can’t think of any of those that ended well either)

All jokes aside Dick does have a point and while Bruce brushes him aside at first he will come to realize that

I love when the Robins or Bruce question whether Robin was a good thing. Like it’s always just such an interesting thing to consider. Like Bruce’s concern that he ruined his kids lives. But he loves his kids and he’s admiring Dick’s gifts and I just love that.

I love how clear it is that Talía loves him and not just in a self centered way. Like Talia’s not perfect but she cares about what he wants. She wants him to want her but even more so she wants him to be happy even without her.

Some villains in love with a hero might destroy what that person loves so that all they have left is them but no Talia chooses to heal the person that he loves even though that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll choose her.

And she has a final conversation with him to make sure he knows the risks of what he’s doing and will do it anyway.

I love Alfred looking out for Bruce, and I love him expressing the feelings the Bruce will not. He knows Bruce, he cares for Bruce, He raised Bruce and I love seeing that portrayed

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[larsisfrommars]

When I say I was not PREPARED. I mean, I had seen gif sets of this clip before but I was NOT prepared for the AUDIO. Oh my god poor Artie!

The Night of The Death Masks really was Artemus's terrible no good very bad day. He gets betrayed, drugged, kidnapped, shot in the leg and then is led to believe he killed his boyfriend best friend!

The dropping the gun and then to his knees in despair, the terrible little "oh no's" and the way his voice breaks when he says "Jim". The closest we get to this level of sad before then I think is in Druid's Blood where Artemus is very visibly trying not to break down while Jim is seemingly gravely injured and comatose.

But what REALLY gets me in this scene is the sobbing, which is wild considering by that point Artie knows Jim isn't dead! A testament to how good of an actor Artie/Ross is!

I mean it's really difficult to get crying/sobbing to sound right when you aren't actually crying let alone look real and he does both. He's actually shaking and everything, you can feel it, I feel like some actors even today forget we cry with our whole bodies, and he does.

That's really impressive. Especially considering the fact that art hadn't exactly been perfected for TV or film yet. Male characters in particular considering how such intense displays of sadness were rare (unless somebody actually died) and even then it was kinda hit or miss at times. I'm just so impressed.

Acting (good acting anyway) tends to lead you to pull from real life experiences to put emotion into your performance. I can only imagine Artie just sort of, unpaused the emotional reaction he was having when he really thought Jim was dead in order to convince Stark and Co that he still believed it.

It would've been really easy for them to have played this scene for laughs. To let Artie play up the crying as a comedic bit, but neither Ross nor the director took that angle I really love that.

The emotional depth of Jim and Artemus's relationship is really well displayed in how this scene was done. Even if part of it was a ploy and they jump back into the action-adventure shenanigans right after. It's really well balanced, and in a time where it feels like a lot of TV writing has lost touch with when to be tender/intense and when to be funny this scene just really stuck out to me.

I really do love this show.

[typhoonquixol]

Absolute Batman - Too much to lose.

With Absolute Superman on the horizon, I want to take a closer look at Absolute Batman issue one. Vague spoilers ahead

The absolute universe has been sold on the premise that in Darkside’s new world nothing went right. Heroism will be harder, the world will be darker, and hope will need to shine brighter than ever. I’d argue this isn’t what Scott Snyder has given us, to a degree. It’s true that Batman will get beater back, it’s true Gotham is more visceral violent than ever before, but there is hope everywhere. There just isn’t enough.

Take Waylon Jones for instance. Compared to every iteration of Waylon that has come before this is by far the happiest version. Whether he’s been a mindless killer, an outcast circus freak, or just a man mistreated by the world, Waylon is traditionally miserable. Not in this universe though. Here Waylon is human, here Waylon runs his own gym, here Waylon has friends. Here Waylon has everything to lose.

When his prime counterpart has so very little it’s redoubtable that this Waylon will claw and bite and writhe to keep what he has. Many of the characters are the same. In the brief glimpse we got of the GCPD it’s clear what has changed. Mayor Gordon, the dedicated and infallible chief of police, has been elevated to a responsibility he must cling to as the world tries to tear it away. Commissioner Bullock, the headstrong and hotblooded cynic, has been leashed by loyalty to Gordon and the restraints his new position brings. Finally, there’s Barbara, following closely in her father’s footsteps, desperate to protect him from the new wave of crime. These characters all have new roles, new lives, ones that they’d do anything to keep.

Therein lies the heart of Absolute Batman. Every character has just enough to resist change. Everyone has just enough to keep them from seeking something better, and risk losing it all. Except Bruce.

Bruce has lost a lot of things compared to his prime counterpart. This time he doesn’t have his cave. This time he doesn’t have his connections. This time he doesn’t have Alfred’s heart. This Bruce is starting with so, so much more. This time he has the city. This time he has friends. This time he has his mother.

If you know how Bruce prime started out, you’ll understand how little he put at stake to be Batman. We can’t know how much Bruce will lose but at a guess, everything. His city will fear him. His friends will grow distant. His mother… we’ll have to wait and see.

Bruce is taking the leap, and he’s not the only one. Waylon is chasing his dreams, opening an exotic-pet store, “Waylon’s Scales of Gotham”. Waylon is stretching his money, risking his cosy life for the one he wants, his friends at his side.

Absolute Batman will play with the idea of hope. How hope can chain us down when we set our sights too low. How to reach something better we must risk what we have. It will show us the price of dreaming big in a city determined to eat itself alive.

I wonder, how much will Waylon have to lose before Bruce needs to put him away?

[angstandhappiness]

Interesting

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

@ the Gotham (2014) fandom: Who do you think, if at all, did Jim Gordon vote for in season 3?

Did he vote for Aubrey James because he thought having a known criminal as mayor wouldn't work?

Or did he vote for Oswald, who he knew and at least trusted to some degree and wanted to kiss?

Edit: On second thought: is Gotham even a democracy?😂

Because if so, Oswald would have had to bribe a lot of people!

[shyjusticewarrior]

Shoutout to Butch for being probably the only person who's normal about Oswald

[fancyfade]

honestly one thing i don't like about zero year is that it seems like they take beats from other stories, but can't let them be un-dramatic, or even just... not the most cinematic, explosive thing ever. Like everything from Batman-in-past has to be amped up to match Batman-in-present. And as a result there's no room for character growth, because everyone has to start at essentially what is their 'final form'.

like I don't really care for most joker backstories, but the zero year joker falls into a vat of chemicals thing is reminiscent of the TKJ origin (intentionally) which itself was calling back/building off to 'tec 168. In both of those, the situation that spawns the chemicals thing is pretty 'small scale'. TKJ has proto-joker helping two people past security in a lab he used to work at, 'tec 168 has proto-joker committing robbery just for money's sake.

while it's obviously up to the reader whether these stories are good, none of them feel epic in scale. It's not trying to be epic. TKJ is analysis of the joker, batman, and gordon, and the question as to whether one bad day can fracture anyone (with the answer 'no')

compare the relatively simple setup for TKJ joker tripping to the complete battlefield and chaos in zero year. Red Hood already has the city in terror, he has like half the police or he's already done his thesis (link) and is already connected to Bruce via the death of Bruce's parents which inspired him. He essentially already is 'joker', jsut with a different name, so there's no real purpose of the origin. And then in terms of the 'needs to be epic' scale - we have a huge dramatic showdown in the ACE chemical factory with bullets flying, philip (bruce's uncle) shoots at joker, gets shot and dies, bruce tranqs jim, grapple with the joker over the chemicals... etc.

similarly, a lot of the reason batman: year one sticks in people's heads is because we see Bruce genuinely failing at things that later are effortless for him. We see Bruce figuring out how to be Batman.

Zero year has some of that - in that he doesn't have his costume yet. But he's pretty much already still batman. he's already got his disguise, he's pretty much perfect at fighting (in a backup story we see him fighting people in a death-match for 28 hours straight as new combatants are added as bruce defeats yet refuses to kill his opponents). Like... I don't think Scott Snyder could do "bruce gets beat up trying to stop thieves on a fire escape while making sure no one ties". it's so... non-epic in scale. And everything Snyder does has to be big and dramatic and involve city-wide threats in his batman run. but it results in a 'year zero' bruce who does not really feel like he's any different from a fully realized batman in any way possible, because he already has to start as the bestest of the best.

which IDK. maybe was fun to read about when it was coming out. but as a work of literature it's just... boring. All style no substance.

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

Why hide this take? 🤌

Somehow they're both homme fatales 😂.

Just so you know, you inspired this 🤭

You still got that much of a hold on me. Maybe you always will.

Sin City: A Dame to Kill For (2014)

[ambriel-angstwitch]

Batman Hush Thoughts Part 7

(Batman 619)

Ahhh! I love Harvey Dent. Poor Bruce just keeps getting betrayed by his friends.

I sure hope so! Bruce/Batman deserve more friends and Harvey was friends with both sides of him

I love Harvey’s absolute lack of remorse. Like he admitted to shooting Tommy the first time after just shot him again and this time he wasn’t clay.

Poor Jim Gordon looks so done with this shit though

I love how Harvey’s only goal was to save his friend. I need them to have a Happy ending (even though I know they won’t). Bat’s is still searching for a way for it not to be Tommy but there was no hope for that.

Have I mentioned I love the female rep in this? Like I know this comic purposefully does fan service like it says on the back cover that Catwoman has never looked so seductive

But still they don’t write them terribly. The women get to have meaningful conversations.

Here’s an older person of the cape society giving advice to a younger one who feels terrible after being messed with which Catwoman can relate to.

Idk I just like it

You know Clark does kind of have a point.

I love how Bruce goes to Clark for help thinking through all of this. I didn’t take a picture of it but Bruce says he goes to Clark because he can be more emotionally detached in a way. And that’s just so fantastic because so many people incorrectly assume that Batman is this purely cold logical hero. But even though he might not show it on his face or with his words, his actions demonstrate how much his actions are fueled by feeling, his love for people, his fear that he’ll lose them.

Superman is by no means not an emotional superhero but he wasn’t friends with Tommy which means he can be more impartial than Bruce.

I love how they’d do anything for eachother. Like all Superman doesn’t want to hurt him but he’ll still do what Bruce asks.

He wants to stay behind and help. Bruce thanks him even if he hesitates. I love their relationship

I love how threatening Bruce is when it comes to his secret.

Riddler 100% deserved that punch for how antagonistic he was being about Jason.

“He fell.” Is iconic stuff.

Agh! Bruce ruining his relationships once again. Selina had a point. What you have going is good, let it be good even if the beginnings aren’t that happy

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[larsisfrommars]

The Night of The Murderous Spring Is So JUICY!

I think I need to talk about how insanely gay this episode of Wild Wild West is or I might EXPLODE. I know a lot of us who already watch the show knew this episode was ridiculous in the gay subtext department but I feel compelled to go in-depth about putting it into words.

Let’s not even dig into the fact that before drugging Jim Dr. Loveless proudly proclaims that he will make James West “kill the thing he loves” and was referring to Artemus when he said that! That’s already wild enough as it is.

For me like, through a shipping/gay subtext lense, I could already tell Artie was into Jim. There is a mountain of evidence to interpret their relationship that way at least on Gordon’s end. For West it was a little more sparse until and especially THIS episode. Which confirmed for me as relatively new to this show and fandom “ohhhh!! He really DOES reciprocate whatever ambiguously gay mess is happening here!”

The version of Artemus that Jim subconsciously conjures up for himself is so interesting. And of course, it appears to him when he’s in desperate need of comfort, of a rock to cling to, but can find none. So his hallucinating brain projects what he NEEDS most, not some lovely young lady (familiar or otherwise) to tell him everything is alright, but Artemus to take care of him. He WANTS to be taken care of and comforted by Artemus and no one else. I’m not crying YOU are crying!

His version of Artemus is pretty close to the real deal but there’s something… softer about this projected version. He’s not completely different, I wouldn’t even say out-of-character. But he is gentler, more patient and forgiving, and very much there to play guardian angel for Jim. All of his positive traits are exaggerated in Jim’s eyes, like hes always seeing the guy through rose colored glasses.

I say this because part of why I got a bit suspicious of this version of Artie was him being way too calm and forgiving when Jim starts being aggressive towards him due to the drug. Yeah Artie loves Jim but like, he’s got his own sense of self-preservation, intelligence, and a bit of a temper. I was expecting a joke or some sternness or something, hell maybe taking Jim’s gun from him. But of course he doesn’t and he can’t, because he’s not real and he’s there to comfort. Jim can’t be thrown off the course that’ll lead him to killing Artie by his hallucination’s own intervention. He’s himself but oh so slightly off.

Another thing was something that “Artie” said that didn’t actually make a lot of sense compared to the rest of established canon when Jim first starts getting temperamental. “Hey it’s me remember? Artemus Gordon? Mrs. Gordon’s son.” Now I know there’s probably some throwaway Doylist explanation for this, but the Watsonian in me prevails.

Artie never brings up either of his parents before this or ever again to my knowledge. Jim only mentions family once in a previous Dr. Loveless episode. It’s the kind of thing you’d say to someone where you’d known each other your whole lives, implying Jim would somehow know his mother. Now unless I’m mistaken they met each other in the military as adults. Which means Jim’s subconscious emotions have made him feel as though Artie’s known him his whole life. Which is some soulmate sounding mess if I ever heard it.

Then there is the crescendo of this madness where Jim shoots the illusionary Artemus in cold blood. Which is easily some of the most heartbreaking acting in the series. I have watched it a normal amount of times (lying)!! Dying “Artie” looks confused and betrayed but he STILL reaches out to Jim like he like wants Jim to know that it’s okay?! OUCH. Then of course there’s the little “why?” before he dies that pushes Jim over the edge.

Jim completely flies off the handle after Artemus’s apparent death. Careening through the street, threatening the hotel staff, trying to get himself arrested for murdering Artie. I don’t know whether it was a side effect of how much hallucinogen he ingested or what. He straight up faints like some tragic Victorian protagonist after returning to his room, overwhelmed by the evil that he has seemingly done.

When he comes back around he is not at all acting like the Jim we know and love. It’s almost like he wants Loveless to kill him with the way he goads the guy. He’s despondent and jaded and being reckless with his own life. He only snaps back to normal when he discovers Artie is in fact alive and well. Which is such a beautifully loaded reunion. He responds to Jim’s unusual tenderness with a sassy joke (which is of course how we know this one is real). It feels very akin to the Kirk and Spock reunion at the end of Amok Time.

I also think it’s worth noting that I think the first time I ever heard James West utter the words “Artie! Help me!” when he’s trying to prevent the ducks carrying the murder-LSD from being released (this episode is NUTS). Which you know in light of the events of this episode is a big step in Jim being a bit more vulnerable as a character. So there is THAT too.

Hey, and maybe it’s just me, but whether it was deliberate or not, something changed about the whole tone of the show after this particular episode. It felt like the showrunners were slowly having it dawn on them the show is at its strongest when it plays off of the bond shared by these two characters. This episode along a few other gems from season one seem to have clinched it. I noticed in season two so far they’re using Artie and Jim’s relationship as a support beam where it was more of a flexible suggestion before. Which has ✨implications✨ whether you interpret the relationship as gay or not. The events of this episode cracked Jim West’s very hard shell, and made these two characters closer than before.

[wonderfulworldofmichaelford]

Psycho Analysis: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Superhero Movie Villains

I think it’s pretty obvious I love villains, considering I have this whole series dedicated to talking about them. And anyone who has followed me for long enough should know that I love superhero movies. So, naturally, I love comic book superhero movie villains. They’re fun, they’re over the top, they’re colorful… They’re the best kinds of villains, especially when a great actor gets pulled in to play them. So why not bring Psycho Analysis back in time for the holidays with a big villain list special?

Here’s the thing: For a long time, comic book movie villains were pretty shitty. You had fun, campy ones every now and then, but most of them were really boring or just plain sucked. You had generic doomsday villains all over the place, or villains who were disrespectful of their comic origins (looking at you, Galactus). Or that’s what I thought going into this, anyway. Turns out there are a lot more villains I would say are genuinely great than ones who I’d call shitty. It’s just the shitty ones are so shitty you think they’re the rule rather than the exception. But that’s another list; right now, we’re celebrating the villains we love to hate.

The rules of this list are simple: So long as the villain has appeared in either a standalone comic book superhero movie, a superhero movie series, or is part of a superhero cinematic universe, they are fair game for this list. I bent the rules a tiny bit in a couple of places, but this is the one consistent rule. This means no Teen Titans Go! To the Movies Slade or Shredder, because despite being based on properties that started as comics, they’re based more on the cartoon version of the characters.

Here are the honorable mentions, the villains who didn’t make the cut for one reason or another (but who I think deserve a shout out regardless): Scarlet Witch (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness), Gorr (Thor: Love & Thunder), Jigsaw (Punisher: War Zone), Hela (Thor: Ragnarok), Carnage (Venom: Let There Be Carnage), Ebony Maw (Avengers: Infinity War), Steppenwolf (Zack Snyder’s Justice League), The Motherfucker (Kick-Ass 2), and Black Mask (Birds of Prey). Special shout outs to Mr. Mind (Shazam!) and Darkseid (Zack Snyder’s Justice League), who would definitely be on this list if they actually had a chance to do more than look cool and foreshadow future movies (ones that will never happen in the latter’s case). And an apology to Cottonmouth of Luke Cage, a show I have sadly not had a chance to watch; if fan reaction to the character is anything to go by, he’d have ended up on this list. Oh, and if I included comic book movies outside superhero ones, I’d probably have thrown Gideon Gordon Graves (Scott Pilgrim) and maybe, possibly Xerxes (300) on the list as well.

Now, on to the list! Oh, and be aware: There are SPOILERS liberally sprinkled throughout the little blurbs I wrote for each villain. 

50. Poison Ivy

Batman & Robin

Even in a film as campy as Batman & Robin, Poison Ivy is outstandingly campy. Uma Thurman knew exactly what she was doing, making everyone’s favorite sapphic, slutty supervillain the icon she deserves to be, even with some truly stupid haircuts. If only Harley was in the movie.. it boggles the mind.

49. Taserface

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Taserface is one of the funniest minor villains ever. I mean, look at him. This man is absurd, and calls himself “Taserface!” But he’s also scarily effective, pulling off a brutal mutiny and killing most of Yondu’s crew. The man gets no respect up until his death, but he never stops being entertaining.

48. Riddler

Batman Forever

Jim Carrey in his prime as one of the most over-the-top and cartoonish villains in Batman’s rogues gallery? Yes please! This is one of the single campiest performances in either of Schumacher’s Batman films—and that’s saying a lot. He can grate on the nerves a little bit, but Carrey is just having way too much fun. Really didn’t need to see his bulge, though.

47. Sandman

Spider-Man 3

Thomas Haden Church gets big points for being the spitting image of Flint Marko, but he also deserves some credit for delivering a genuinely nuanced and emotional performance in the hot mess of a film he’s in. The scene where he is created is still to this day one of the most powerful moments in any comic book movie ever, a fantastic display of visual storytelling and impressive effects work congealing into a shining moment in a film that doesn’t have many.

46. Obadiah Stane

Iron Man

Stane is a weird one. On the one hand, he’s a precursor to every bad villain in superhero movies to come, as he ends up as a Big Gray CGI Monstrosity with the same powers as the hero. On the other hand, Jeff Bridges is just so delightfully hammy and he is the first of his kind in the modern age, so I think it’s fair to cut him a bit of slack.

45. Red Skull

Captain America: The First Avenger

Hugo Weaving may have initially had little respect for the role, but there’s no denying he put good work into it. Red Skull is sinister, hammy, and deliciously evil, perfect for the pulpy adventure tale of Cap’s debut. I mean, the man backstabs the Third Reich because he considers himself eviler than them, what more could you ask for?

44. Milo

Morbius

Look, you knew at least one “so bad it’s good” villain was gonna be here, and I’ve gotta hand it to Milo; he really makes the most of Morbius’s meticulous mediocrity. Matt Smith I’d clearly having the time of his life, giving a dramatic performance better than this movie deserved and a hammy supervillain performance that this movie desperately needed. And let’s not forget the man has the sickest dance moves this dude of Bully Maguire.

43. Bane

The Dark Knight Rises

The Dark Knight Rises may not be the greatest finale ever, but it did what so many Batman adaptations fail to do: It acknowledged Bane is a cunning mastermind behind the muscles. Throw in an awesome performance from Tom Hardy and a mind-boggling amount of meme-worthy lines and you have yourself a fantastic villain. His truly embarrassing final fate and the fact he was pretty blatantly whitewashed are the only thinga keeping him so low on the list.

42. Violator

Spawn

Spawn may not be the best superhero movie ever, but if there’s one shining spot in it (besides how cool the titular character is), it’s John Leguizamo’s madcap performance as the demonic Clown. Despite being steeped in grimy gross out comedy, he still manages to be fun to watch, mainly because literally everyone around him finds him as disgusting as the audience does. And even if his demon form is hit with janky PS2 CGI, he still manages to get in some badass lines and moments. Bottom line: Leguizamo did not eat actual maggot pizza to miss out on this list.

41. Bullseye

Daredevil

Colin Farrell did not miss the mark with his portrayal of Daredevil’s assassin archenemy. It’s such a fun, hammy, laughably evil performance that helps add a bit of fun to the edgy proceedings by being basically a literal cartoon character come to life. Now if he only got that fucking costume…

40. Arthur Harrow

Moon Knight

Transforming a minor, unimpressive villain from the comics into a credible threat onscreen is par for the course for superhero media, but few end up quite this impressive. Most of the credit has to go to Ethan Hawke, who really gives it his all as the sorcerous cult leader, but I think the imagined version inside Marc’s mind that’s the head doctor of the psychiatric facility is where he really shines, as it plays with our perception a bit.

39. Ultron

Avengers: Age of Ultron and What If…?

Here is a villain desperately seeking a film worthy of him. James Spader is giving such a fun, engaging performance with only a couple of hiccups, but everything around him is just so quippy and stupid that the film struggles to take him seriously. Still, he deserves a spot here at the very least for his incredibly realistic villain origin: He took one look at the internet and decided humanity needed to be destroyed. And hey, if nothing else What If…? gave him a chance to shine and be the threat he deserves to be!

38. Ulysses Klaue

Black Panther

Andy Serkis sadly gets offed halfway through Black Panther, but even with his limited screentime he has become a beloved minor antagonist. It helps he managed to have a fantastic cameo in Age of Ultron (one of the sole bright spots in that film), and that for his role as the first act’s villain in Black Panther Serkis approaches the role with such humor and grimy charm that you’ll probably feel bad when this scumbag ends up in a body bag.

37. The Thinker

The Suicide Squad

The roulette wheel of villains in The Suicide Squad eventually lands on Peter Capaldi’s maniacal mad scientist, and while he doesn’t have any major fights he manages to steal the show with just how slimy and egotistical he is. He’s just a nasty, awful bastard, and being responsible for the final villain going full kaiju rampage is worth making it on this list.

36. Lex Luthor

Superman Returns

It’s so fucking sad that despite being used in almost every Superman film ever made, the onily time his most iconic foe was ever good when he was played by real-life creep Kevin Spacey. But hey, being a villain in real life gives just the right touch of unhinged ego and cockiness Luthor needs.

35. Top Dollar

The Crow

When I made the list of the 30 best comic book superhero movies, I left off The Crow, mainly because I didn’t think of it as a superhero movie (it’s more like a friend to me if I’m being honest). Kind of a harsh snub there, so as an apology Michael Wincott’s effortlessly cool and needlessly cruel gangster overlord gets to take a place on this list. Not many people can bang their half-sibling and still come away being awesome, but somehow owning the Six-Fingered Sword from The Princess Bride and using it in a duel probably goes a long way towards making Top Dollar one of the most memorable crime bosses you’ll ever see.

34. Dr. Sivana

Shazam!

When you have a villain as silly as “Doctor who harnesses the powers of the seven deadly sins because of darkness in his heart to get revenge” you need a damn good actor to pull that off. Mark Strong is a damn good actor, and this is a taste of what we could have had if they let him play Sinestro more than once. I for one can’t wait to see him take orders from an evil caterpillar!

33. Sabretooth

X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Liev Schreiber makes his first mark on this list as Wolverine’s ultraviolent archenemy, and easily the best part of Origins. He’s fun and menacing, and a lot more memorable than whatever the hell that poser in the original X-Men was. The greatest crime of the franchise (besides piss-poor continuity and bad writing and over reliance on Wolverine) was never bringing back Sabretooth to plague good old Logan one more time.

32. Penguin

The Batman

In a movie as dark as this, we need a little bit of levity. Enter Penguin, here imagined as a cartoonish mobster that would almost be out of place if this movie didn’t clearly have a bit of West influence in it. Colin Farrell is no stranger to playing hilariously cartoonish supervillains so in his role here he excels, and it’s easy to see why he’s getting his own spin-off series.

31. Sebastian Shaw

X-Men: First Class

Long before he spent Christmas with the Guardians of the Galaxy, Kevin Bacon terrorized the X-Men in one of their best outings. While he’s not winning any points for comic accuracy, he definitely wins points for being responsible for Magneto’s start of darkness, being the one who killed his mother (and thus a Nazi). He’s a slimy supremacist bastard, and it’s oh so satisfying to watch Magneto make sure there’s zero degrees of separation between his skull and a magnetized coin.

30. Ozymandias

Watchmen

As is often the case with Snyder’s Watchmen, the movie misses the point a bit here. They turned the charming, charismatic, muscular Chad that was the comic Adrian into a cold, brooding, emotionally distant soyboy. It kinda ruins the surprise that this dude is the evil mastermind. Still, with how slavishly loyal the film is, it still manages to make Veidt one of the finest and most morally complex supervillains to hit the big screen… he’s just not quite as impressive as his comic version (though really, who is?).

29. Zemo

Captain America: Civil War and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Zemo is the obvious evolution of the supervillain archetype Loki codified, but he is far more refined. His motives are solid and understandable, his methods are heinous enough to root against, and he makes some valid points. Then he proceeds to do what not even Thanos could: He tears the Avengers apart. He’s the rare villain who actually wins, the rarer villain who actually gets to live, and the rarest villain of all who gets to return, steal the show with awkward dance moves and praising Marvin Gaye, and—most crucially—look cool wearing a purple sock on his head.

28. Ocean Master

Aquaman

Good old Orm doesn’t make the list by being the deepest or most complex character (though he’s not lacking in depth and is pretty understandable in some of his motives), but by being just so delightfully comic booky. He’s hammy, he poses, he wears a silly helmet, and he acts as a great narrative foil for our hero. Bonus points for not only being a villain who is at least a little justified to the point he’s redeemed—by the power of love, no less!—but one who survives the movie to get more development later on.

27. Doctor Doom

The Fantastic Four

The unreleased Fantastic Four film of the 90s may have been hobbled by a budget consisting of change they found in the couch cushions, but the love and respect for the source material always managed to shine through. Nowhere is that more evident than with Doom; he’s hammy, he’s grandiose, he has a giant castle and throne room, he acts like everyone except him is a total idiot, and he won’t stop calling Reed a douchebag even when he’s about to fall to his ambiguous death. He may not put up much of a fight, but this Doom is head and shoulders above Dooms with a thousand times the budget.

26. Justin Hammer

Iron Man 2

Iron Man 2 is a sloppy film that was a grim omen of problems that would plague the MCU later down the line, but it did one thing right in giving the world the inimitable Justin Hammer. Where Tony Stark is an idealized fantasy billionaire who is actually a good person who wants to help people, Hammer is a more realistic take to serve as a contrast. He’s smug, he’s smarmy, he engages in all manner of illegal activity to undermine his betters, and most crucially he is an incredible idiot. This man is basically the MCU version of Elon Musk, but where Musk’s attempts at trying to be cool are pathetic and cringeworthy, Hammer’s attempts to ape Tony’s style just serve to make him endearing. And do you think Musk could ever have dance moves half as sick as Hammer’s? Get real.

25. The Grandmaster

Thor: Ragnarok

It’s Jeff Goldblum as space Caligula. ‘Nuff said.

24. Mr. Freeze

Batman & Robin

People have ragged on Arnold’s campy Freeze for years due to his non-stop barrage of ice puns, but much like his home movie he’s honestly not as bad as the haters would make you think. Schwarzenegger is adept at both comedy and drama, and is able to deftly balance the tragic melodrama of Freeze’s backstory and his campy cartoonishness, all while wearing one of the coolest costumes ever seen. And you know what? The ice puns aren’t that bad. Chill out.

23. Prowler

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

Uncle Aaron is an inspired take on Uncle Ben, a character who has been done to death (literally). The positive dynamic he has with his nephew is familiar, but the fact he has a criminal alter ego who is relentlessly and unknowingly hunting his beloved nephew down for Kingpin is a fresh take on a tired tale. He still dies, and his death is the catalyst for Miles to fully embrace being Spider-Man, while alive he is equal parts menacing force and tragic figure. With apologies to Miss Octavius, he’s definitely the best secondary antagonist in the film.

22. Penguin

Batman Returns

Danny DeVito’s portrayal of Penguin as a tragic, deformed monster as opposed to a classy gangster has gone on to inform basically every portrayal of the character since, to the point where sticking closer to the character’s roots is seen as weird. It’s not a surprise, though; DeVito manages to make Penguin a menacing, creepy villain as well as a pitiable figure all at once.

21. Vulture

Spider-Man: Homecoming

Michael Keaton is no stranger to comic book movies, and here he demonstrated he is just as adept at playing badass villains as he is at playing heroes. Taking one of Spider-Man’s corniest villains and giving him a high tech upgrade and sympathetic motivation was a smart move, as was keeping him noble even in the end. Of course, his best scene doesn’t even have him in his bird suit; it has him in his regular clothes, slowly piecing together the truth about Peter while the boy sits in the backseat of his car. Keaton’s acting in the car ride scene is something else entirely.

20. Loki

Marvel Cinematic Universe

I was personally not a huge fan of Loki’s turn as an out and out doomsday villain in the first Avengers movie, but it’s hard to deny his impact on the medium and how he was the first villain in the MCU to actually have nuance, which was much better showcased in the Thor films. And you’ll never hear a bad word from me about Tom Hiddleston’s performance, which is fantastic no matter what he’s in, up to being the best part of every episode of What If...? he’s in. It’s no wonder Loki got his own spin-off show with all that in mind.

19. White Dragon

Peacemaker

Peacemaker’s dad is probably the biggest piece of shit on this list, being an openly racist neo-Nazi supervillain and one of the most abusive fathers you’ll ever see. By all accounts he shouldn’t be as cool as he is, but between Robert Patrick’s fantastic performance and James Gunn being a master of writing conflicts between parents and children like this, he becomes an enjoyable hate sink you oh so badly want to see get what’s coming to him. And even better, despite being built up as a genius inventor and badass villain, he makes crucial errors in his suit’s construction that leads to his demise, showing once and for all that for all their posturing, white supremacists are just fucking morons who fold like wet paper at the slightest opposition.

18. General Zod

Superman II

Terrence Stamp took a villain who wasn’t quite iconic and managed to make him on the level of Luthor when it comes to Superman villains almost anyone could name, to the point where Stamp’s portrayal influenced the comic version going forwards. He has an air of class and menace that makes it pretty easy to want to kneel before him. Zod has become a little overexposed, being the go-to Superman bad guy when they don’t feel like using Luthor, but when the original take was this good it’s seriously hard to fault them too much.

17. Mysterio

Spider-Man: Far From Home

Mysterio isn’t just brilliant because he’s a fun, meta take on a great goofy comic villain, with him and his team essentially being Marvel movie creators gone bad, fabricating CGI spectacle to gain accolades. And he’s not just brilliant because of that fantastic illusion sequence where he puts Spidey through a dizzying nightmare trip. No, he’s brilliant because not only did he convince the world at large that he’s an incredible hero, he managed to convince some audience members that he’s just a poor, innocent worker who was taken advantage of by his former billionaire boss (which ignores so much, but especially that he’s working with someone who was complicit in dealing arms to terrorists). He’s certainly not a hero, but he’s most definitely a master of illusions.

16. Starro

The Suicide Squad

Starro serves as the final boss of The Suicide Squad, unleashing kaiju destruction on Corto Maltese. And like all great kaiju, there is an air of tragedy to the big starfish; he never wanted any of this, in its final moments choosing to lament how content it was to simply drift through space before it was kidnapped and forced to undergo perverse experiments at the hands of the American government (and particularly Thinker). Starro doesn’t even want to fight the Squad at first, implying it’s grateful to them for freeing it from torture. The Squad may not put much thought into how tragic Starro’s lot is, but the audience sure will.

15. Agatha Harkness

WandaVision

In a technical sense, Agatha didn’t do too much wrong besides gaslight Wanda in an attempt to steal her powers. Sure, she kidnaps Wanda’s kids and kills their dog, but none of those things are real; and sure, she hypnotized Ralph Bohner (heh) into thinking he was Quicksilver, but it’s no worse than Wanda’s mass brainwashing of Westview. But she just relishes so much in being a wicked witch, from her torment of Wanda to her insanely catchy villain song, that I’m inclined to take her word for it and say she’s a bad guy. She’s definitely getting some kind of redemption in her own show, but for now Kathryn Hahn camping it up like she just walked off the set of Hocus Pocus can take high marks on this list.

14. Amanda Waller

DC Cinematic Universe

I don’t think there has ever been such an impressive turnaround for a comic book villain ever. It was never a matter of Viola Davis, who gave her all from day one, but a matter of how abysmal the writing in Suicide Squad was, portraying her as an incompetent idiot who was still allowed to get away with everything in the end. Once Gunn took the reigns of the franchise, though, Waller finally got her due, sending an entire squad to their death as a distraction and basically playing 4D chess for the whole movie. She gets her comeuppance too, so it’s a lot more satisfying watching her win a few schemes when you know she can lose a few too. Being a greater-scope villain for Peacemaker just further cemented her as being the magnificent bitch the character should be; we can only hope she keeps it up in her next major appearance.

13. Kingpin

Daredevil (The movie and the Netflix series), Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

It’s honestly amazing that a villain as seemingly simple as Wilson Fisk has not only been done differently three times in ways that make him cool and engaging, but he’s also maintained a high level of quality in every appearance. Michael Clarke Duncan brought size and intimidation to his version, doing so well despite Daredevil’s weak theatrical cut he got to reprise the role in the underrated Spider-Man: The New Animated Series; Liev Schreiber voiced the memeiest version of the character to date, one who even holds the distinction of killing one Spider-Man and inadvertently creating another; and Vincent D’onofrio is so good he managed to pull the entire Netflix Daredevil show into the MCU canon with his appearance in Hawkeye. Fisk would be the easiest villain in the world to half-ass and make generic, but we’ve been blessed with fantastic actors in the role. Kingpin gets the distinction of being the one of only two villains with multiple entries in one spot.

12. Kilgrave

Jessica Jones

David Tennant is the third and final former Doctor to make the list, and he’s so good at being a bad I bent the rules ever so slightly to get him in on the list. The canonicity of Jessica Jones to the MCU is a bit unclear right now, but do we really want to live in a world where his fantastically chilling performance is Thanos’d from the timeline? A walking avatar of rape culture and a laundry list of microagressions, Kilgrave is one of the slimiest, most sadistic, most reprehensible characters ever conceived… and yet you can’t help but love to hate him.

11. Catwoman

Batman Returns

There have been plenty of Catwomans in film, with her being portrayed as a hero, an anti-hero, and even a silly Silver Age villainess. But I think Miss Kyle was done best as an antagonist in the hands of Michelle Pfeiffer, who absolutely nails the dynamic between Selina and Bruce (and their alter egos) as well as portraying the inherent tragedy of this take on the character. Throw in Pfeiffer looking damn fine in that costume and her handling the whip like a pro, and you have what might just be the purr-fect Catwoman.

10. Namor

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Phase 4 of the MCU was largely uneven, with villains who could have been great under better circumstances being held back by sloppy narrative choices. Big names like Gorr and Scarlet Witch were let down by weak stories, so there was a sense of dread I had going into Wakanda Forever that they’d let down one of Marvel’s oldest and most iconic anti-heroes. I had nothing to worry about in the end; Tenoch Huerta brought the character to life with all the charm, charisma, and command of the screen the Sub-Mariner deserves, and boy does he look good. The story treats him with the respect he deserves (no jokes about his ankle wings!) and while he’s certainly no Killmonger, he easily cements himself as a fantastic anti-hero who you can’t wait to see more of. And really, I can’t stress this enough: He is really fucking hot.

9. Riddler

The Batman

I’m sure I’m in the same boat as a lot of people, where I saw the Zodiac-inspired getup of the new Riddler and thought this was going to be a Nolanesque gritty reimagining of the character. But lo and behold, we got something infinitely better: A Riddler that utilizes all manner of gruesome Saw traps while also maintaining the hilarious campy quality that’s inherent to the character. He sends personalized greeting cards with clues, he hosts evil livestreams for his fans, he sings “Ave Maria” to Batman, and most importantly he has a sick sense of humor. I love Jim Carrey, but he ain’t got shit on Paul Dano when it comes to riddlin’.

8. Joker

Batman: The Movie, Batman, The Dark Knight, and Joker

Joker is a character who always manages to get a fresh take despite being absolutely done to death, and each interpretation highlights a different aspect that makes the character great. Romero’s Joker is very much the playful, criminal prankster; Nicholson is the swaggering, comically violent gangster; Ledger is the chilling, maniacal anarchist; and Phoenix is the disturbed, broken man who had one really bad day. And the one thing common across all of them is that each of them has made the Joker a consistently compelling and engaging villain. And while he hasn’t done enough yet to get in on this spot of the list entirely, Barry Keoghan deserves a shout out for portraying Joker as he truly is: A giggling, hideous, conniving freak.

7. Thanos

Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame

Thanos was a villain nearly a decade in the making, getting teased in The Avengers before making sporadic appearances here and there. His lack of direct action in the franchise had some worried… and then he stole the show in Infinity War, kicked everyone’s ass, and emerged victorious. They managed to take a villain whose main goal in the comics is to fuck a skeleton and somehow make him work, namely by keeping his headstrong self-righteousness intact even if he isn’t trying to bone the grim reaper, with Josh Brolin delivering one of the finest performances of his career. There are other villains that are better than him, but there aren’t any villains who truly feel as grand of epic as he did, and with DC dropping Darkseid from their cinematic universe it’s doubtful there ever will be one again, at least not for a very long time.

6. Doctor Octopus

Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man: No Way Home

Alfred Molina’s Otto Octavius is an excellent contrast to Dafoe’s Goblin. Where Gobby is hammy, hilarious, and gleefully sadistic, Octavius is grandiose in a more understated way and a lot more tragic, while still managing to be as fun as a mad scientist with robot tentacles should be. You can definitely tell Molina is bringing his stage acting skills to the table here with how he carries himself and delivers his lines, making Octavius stand out among the more traditionally campy villains in Raimi’s other films. He got to return for an encore in No Way Home and gets the awesome fight scene and redemption arc he deserved, fully rounding him out and giving the diabolical doctor a happy ending all while proving that he makes movies better just by being in them.

5. Xu Wenwu

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings

Shang-Chi would be a nearly perfect movie if not for one thing: It kills off one of the single greatest and most complex villains in the MCU for a CGI dragon battle. They managed to take two of the most infamous “Yellow Peril” characters in pop culture (Fu Manchu and the Mandarin) and gave him depth and complexity, his complicated relationship with his children driving the plot more than anything else. It’s a testament to how good the writing and how good Tony Leung’s performance is that he’s this high, because despite his death the impact on his children doesn’t disappear just because it’s time for CGI monsters. This more than makes up for how lame Guy Pearce Mandarin was, that’s for sure.

4. Ego

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Familial conflict is the cornerstone of many great villains, and Ego has that in spades. At first it seems like Marvel’s living planet has undergone adaptational kindness, with him genuinely coming across as a fun father figure to Peter, but that just makes the big twist hit even harder. Ego becomes even nastier retroactively, as on top of what he did to Peter’s mother and scores of his own children, the holiday special reveals Mantis is his child and he only kept her alive as a slave for her powers. He’s genuinely one of the nastiest, most twisted villains the MCU ever showed us, and he more than lives up to his name with his narcissistic plan to reshape the universe in his image. Kurt Russell absolutely knocked it out of the park with his performance. 

3. Magneto

X-Men film series

Be it Sir Ian McKellan or Michael Fassbender, you could always count on one thing with Magneto: He’d be one of the most compelling parts of the film. Watch McKellan and Fassbender carry The Last Stand and Apocalypse, respectively, and see how this iconic anti-villain can make even the biggest turds watchable. And when the movie is genuinely good, such as X2, First Class, or Days of Future Past… That’s where the real fun comes in. Magneto is one of the single greatest characters ever created, and thankfully even with the spotty track record of the X-Men films it never felt like he wasn’t given his due.

2. Green Goblin

Spider-Man and Spider-Man: No Way Home

We can argue all day about whether or not his costume is stupid, but one thing that is utterly inarguable is that Willem Dafoe delivered the gold standard for hammy supervillains. Playing up the Goblin as something of a split personality, Dafoe can instantly switch from the sympathetic Norman to the cackling Gobby with ease, something really demonstrated by his return in No Way Home. Across two cinematic universes, Gobby proved himself to be Spidey’s greatest and most personal foe, and more importantly than that he proved to be an endless fountain of memes thanks to his insanely quotable lines. If you’re making a cackling, campy comic book movie villain, they are gonna have to try really hard to make it out of Gobby’s shadow.

1. Erik Killmonger

Black Panther

When I began making this list, there was never any question who number one was going to be. Of fucking course it was always gonna be Killmonger, a villain who is so cool, stylish, badass, and complex that he completely redeems the film’s awkward PS3 cutscene of a final battle thanks to his genuinely impactful death scene immediately after. He’s so good that when he shows up for a surprise appearance in Wakanda Forever he absolutely and completely eclipses how great Namor is and reminds us all why he was such a great villain with only a single scene. What’s most impressive, however, is that technically he did win in the end, being directly responsible for T’Challa dying as well as inspiring him during life to open up to the world and try and help black people around the world. Michael B. Jordan proves once and for all that whatever problems his role as Johnny Storm had, it wasn’t on him; the man is one of the best actors of our time.

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

Repressed Queerness and Queerphobia in Gotham: an Essay (even though you very probably asked this as a joke)

Warning: In this post I speculate about the reasons for queerphobia in Gotham, and mention sex offenders' perspectives

I did try to fit in some comic relief to help with the unease that can accompany this topic :)

Why is Gotham so full of repressed queers, you ask? Because of crime.

There must be an awful lot of sex offenses in Gotham, and like in our world, people who commit them are often more afraid of other people because of it.

They don't have to have done something extreme, it could be an unwanted comment or a nasty look, they will know that it's possible coming from people of the same sex, only that if they can't be attracted to them, there's no way that they can make it work in their head, tell themselves that it's not too bad because the other person has a "bad boy/girl" allure, which is something that a lot of Gothamites have grown accustomed to because of the very high probability that someone's date has committed at least one crime.

So there's hate from hetero/aromantic/asexual people who bother people in this way. They want to protect themselves against crimes from others at all cost, so they make same-sex/gender attraction so taboo that these people won't even think about overstepping in intimate ways even if they were okay with murder.

A lot of men don't want women to be with others because they want them for themselves, even if it's only for the control over them. Meanwhile, some don't even consider the idea of being with other women because men still hold more power in Gotham. In order to attract men, they try to make it very clear that they aren't attracted to women, a process in which some will be homophobic.

A lot of parents in Gotham take this opportunity of uprising homophobia to add their dislike of the idea of queer relationships. Gotham probably has bad retirement arrangements, so having children would give people some security, and if these children don't have it in their power, ideally also grandchildren.

Add to that other reasons why Gotham citizens would love to be grandparents: they wouldn't be so alone while also not having to take on the difficult job of keeping a child safe in a dangerous city.

People of male sex are strongly advised against appearing less male because they could be seen as an easier victim while those of female sex are told that they'd only make themselves appear stronger than they actually were, which could also be dangerous as they'd be seen as more of a threat, and with that possibly a challenge. Non-binary people could easily be forgotten with the now tabooness of the topic.

Adding to the queerphobia: in the dystopian world of Gotham, people cling to religion and susperstition where they can, which can often be interpreted to mean anything they already think, if it isn't already queerphobic.

Now that there's established discrimination, safe spaces are created. But because these spaces aren't created from nothing, help from powerful people is needed. And who is powerful in a city of crime? Criminals. They already have the security and the special feeling of secrecy between people who commit crimes, the assurance that secrets won't leave the underworld.

So the spaces penguins queer people can thrive in are controlled by criminals. It becomes normal in the crime world to make people feel at home, to pull them further into the world of crime by whatever means necessary. And what method is better and less expensive than respect and common sense?

"Yes, it makes sense that you're attracted to someone of the same sex, they're attractive."

Someone doesn't identify with the gender corresponding to their sex? "Last week I literally saw a woman with a claw instead of a hand while being trans is just a mix of different human aspects."

Greetings like "Gentlemen! Ladies! Others!", all shouted with equal volume, become common, and money flows from sketchy gangs into medical research and religious places, the latter for bribing people to marry people in queer relationships.

When this pattern becomes public, it reinforces the queerphobia. Most villains seem to be queer, is it because it makes them evil? Surely people who show who they really are must either have a lot of money or have gained power through illegal means, right? No, of course not. But that is what Gotham currently believes. What needs to be changed.

(Spoilers for Gotham season 2 episode 3 under the cut:)

"And this is one of the reasons as to why you should elect me as mayor. This city can be so much more, its citizens can be so much more content, happier, safe." *Cheering crowd* "Make Gotham safe again! For everyone!"

Why is Gotham so full of repressed queers

[designatedbreadbox]

Fun fact about bane, in comics he is just as smart as batman, there is a comic where he figures out batmans identity just from his jaw, also hes original back story was he came from nothing and he developed the venom that makes him so strong, i hate how recent media made him a dumb himbo but i still simp for him just the same

I figured just as much since a friend once gave me an analysis on the show that essentially was something like "Everyone is boiled down to an exaggerated trait they have" and normally I would quote Harley for this but she's consistent overrall in general. Jim Gordon, however, has the 'overworked cop w/ failing marriage' trait being at the front of his personality when you know in actuality that 1) No way that's true and 2) He's very good at his job based on what I know so far of him.

Apologies; back to Bane. I know very little about him apart that he broke Batman's back once. The jaw thing is pretty damn impressive because it implies alot. Based on what you said, it means that Bane has been stalking Batman enough to learn his real identity. Two, to connect it to a beloved billionaire when so many other people can have that same jawline, you know? And three, my funny joke option, that Bane watched Gotham's news enough to have an 'Oh shit' moment and was like 'Yo that's Batman!'.

To keep this short, I love villains who workes from the ground up and I really like how it gives them a reason to despise those who just... had it. Whether that's a reason he may hate Batman or not isn't known to me, sadly. In regards to him being a himbo in recent media, even if he was a fully fleshed character, I still think he could work the himbo tropr if it's him acting a 'lil stupid with those he trusts/loves, romantic or not, you know? However once they leave, the gloves are back on and he's back to business. It's a sharp contrast that'll have people reeling. Not to be out of character, of course; I don't know much about him, but I'll be happy to learn more.