#revolve around sapphic ships

[trying-to-get-somewhere-real]

wanted to be responsible and keep this in the tags, but i think this post is actually like THE most important post about sydcarmy fandom discourse for me at the moment, particularly this part (so my apologies to op):

even if syd and carmen were platonic (i love a romantic reading of them) there's an inability (or i see an inability) in fandom spaces to even celebrate their platonic relationship as something absolutely foundational to the show and to carmen, because it's not really whether or not they're platonic or romantic that makes people uncomfortable, it's the importance syd has to the narrative and to carmen--which means an "objective" reading (not possible with fiction, the whole point of interacting with fiction is that it is a subjective experience) would have syd be incredibly important to any viewer. the problem then is not how to categorize or label syd and carmen's relationship, the problem syd's importance/significance.

as someone who has been beating the drum of ambiguity for weeks now but wasn’t fully able to pinpoint why it is so hard for people outside the fandom to sit with that ambiguity and let those of us who see something romantic in it just have that, this is the answer. i have always known that the antis just don’t like syd, that there is an incredible amount of misogynoir at play, that whatever protestations to the contrary these people absolutely do not care about what’s best for syd when they say she deserves better than carm, but this post helped crystalize for me that at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter whether their relationship is platonic or romantic - if she is important enough to him, they’re not gonna have it! and that importance is what all of us here already see, whatever label you put on it. her significance to him and to the larger narrative is what makes me personally insane about them and i think it’s kind of foundational to any good ship. i would love to see syd take up increasingly more space in the narrative and in his life long before anything romantic happens (if it does) just to prove the point that they do not actually care whether they are romantic or not - they just care that she is as diminished as possible.

one of the questions that keeps popping up is how else can you interpret carm envisioning syd to help ease him out of his panic attack as other than romantic? one i've seen that i think has some legs, though i disagree with it/read the scene differently, is that he was experiencing intrusive thoughts (as in the scenes from fishes were intruding on his thoughts of claire), and it's his work, the thing he's said is not fun for him and which is a place where he's encountered more abuse, but which he's familiar with, that calms him down. so ultimately his thinking of syd is tragic.

the intrusive thoughts part is intriguing to me, but collapsing syd down to just "his work" falls in line with this compulsion some viewers have to diminish or dismiss her meaningfulness to both the narrative and to carmen; and it also diminishes her herself as a character, in that it takes her admiration of carmen's work, something that inspires and moves her, and dismisses it, strips it of its hopefulness, casts it off as both "bad" for carmen and only utilitarian (can only signify his career success and can only be used to get carm out of his panic attack) and has no emotional value, does not evoke pathos on its own; it effaces what syd feels and how what syd feels makes carmen feel. ironically, this way of seeing syd falls in line with the disinterest in her experiencing romance, and in only having interest in seeing her succeed in work/only allowing her to exist in the world of work.

even if syd and carmen were platonic (i love a romantic reading of them) there's an inability (or i see an inability) in fandom spaces to even celebrate their platonic relationship as something absolutely foundational to the show and to carmen, because it's not really whether or not they're platonic or romantic that makes people uncomfortable, it's the importance syd has to the narrative and to carmen--which means an "objective" reading (not possible with fiction, the whole point of interacting with fiction is that it is a subjective experience) would have syd be incredibly important to any viewer. the problem then is not how to categorize or label syd and carmen's relationship, the problem syd's importance/significance.

one platonic vs romantic duo that's been brought up in comparison is scully x mulder. let's say they never canonically became romantic. even if that happened, their relationship would remain the core of the x files; no viewer would be able to deny that the x files is about mulder and scully and their work together, and that when they tune in each week, it's to see them working off each other, working together. that's what's missing with the insistence that syd and carm remain "only" platonic, an interest and investment in their platonic relationship that equals or rivals their romantic relationship. romantic or platonic, it's always scully and mulder against the world. "the x files" is synonymous with "mulder and scully." when syd and carmen are platonic, carm "escapes" the kitchen and suddenly fandom conveniently loses an imagination for what syd's future could or would be (because its interest in her wasn't there to begin with).

every time platonic is used for syd and carmen, it's a limiting word. it's like that chris rock (*eye roll*) joke about "the sky's the limit" vs "the limit's the sky."

[btxtyuri]

i need to save aerith and tifa from the ff7 fandom you're all insane

[lenalvthor]

hey i have a fucking bone to pick with sapphic fandoms

like, i get it okay. i've been on tumblr since 2011, i was in the trenches during the bury your gays nightmare, i grew up on buffy, i watched the 100, i've been through the furious and devastating queerbaits, and i've watched helplessly as the boom of proper progress with sapphic rep has burned and disappeared with the faults of the industry as it is rn and the resurgence of bury your gays in the form of tv cancellations

i even did a fucking guest lecture for a film & tv university course a couple years ago on all of this

we joke about the fact that queer (specifically sapphic) fans flock to any show with the barest hint of rep in it because we're so starved for it, and we talk about the fact that if nothing else, that proves that there's a market and an audience and it usually creates a huge wave of viewership and attention for the show

but i need to fucking point out: acting as though a show exists for the sole purpose of the sapphic relationship you've started watching it for is fucking detrimental to how you'll perceive the show, how it'll get talked about in fandom spaces and then beyond that (bc the line between fandom spaces and wider online discussion of media is a lot thinner than it was ten years ago) and isn't actually going to do any good for sapphic rep! like, at all! because guess what! unless you're watching a show where the entire storyline revolves around romance, this couple you're watching for ISN'T going to be the centre of the story! it's a part of it! and there's such a weird fucking entitled toxicity to how fans act around brilliant storytelling and worldbuilding and writing and characters throwing tantrums about not getting more screentime for the relationship they like because they don't actually care about any other part of the story. and the thing about people who watch something solely for a ship rather than the wider story it exists in, is that a lot of the time, you'll fundamentally misinterpret the characters and their dynamic because you're not taking any of the wider context of the world and story into account at all.

and yes, of course i'm talking about agatha all along in the immediacy. because we knew a long, long time ago that billy maximoff was gonna be an integral part of this story, long before we knew anything about what the vibe of this show was gonna be, long before anyone even had the tiniest whisper of rio's existence. the same way wandavision was monica rambeau's origin story even though the show was wanda's, we suspected that agatha all along would be billy's/wiccan's origin story even if the show focused on agatha. and you know fucking what. that's good fucking storytelling. this show is smart, it's funny, it's curious, it's campy, it's queer, and it's ensemble. that's always been the point. agatha and rio were a delightfully unexpected part of it that added such delicious tension and phenomenal sapphic rep, but you know what else! the point of that dynamic is to flesh out agatha's character! this show isn't about agatha and rio! it's about agatha and billy, who they are, how their pasts and their magic are connected, their traumas and their power and how the road shapes their futures! rio is a part of exploring agatha's past, and it's phenomenal, but i am so fucking bewildered by the ridiculousness of people's reactions to billy now having a bigger part in the story and there being less focus on agatha and rio. you do know that you write scenes and characters and stories in a way that makes sense right? that because of the nature of this show, even if we don't get more than a handful agatha and rio scenes for the rest of the episodes, they're both still sapphic characters, this is still wonderful sapphic rep, and this show is still very, very queer?

like, it's obviously not fair that we have to beg for scraps to have queer shows to watch. but that doesn't mean that any of us get to do such a fucking disservice to the people who make amazing shows and fight to put sapphic rep in them within the contexts of the stories they're telling by whining that it's not enough. what we're getting with agatha all along, what kathryn han and aubrey plaza and jac schaeffer have said with such grace and nuance and intrigue and depth about agatha and rio's relationship, is so fucking rare! and it's nestled within a story that's got so much other intricate storytelling that makes agatha and rio richer characters when you actually pay some fucking attention and care about who they are outside of their sexual tension!

and i'm saying this because this is an issue i see with So many other shows, where the worth of a show gets boiled down to fandoms wanting content of their ship and nothing else and then poisoning the conversation and reception around what else it is that show is doing with its story. idk get some fucking media literacy, grow up and respect artists and creatives.

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Vivzepops fetishization of queer men and the lack of Sapphic content in HH and HB

I found it a bit dissapointing that Charlie and Vaggie had very little interactions that could be read as romantic or sexual, especially since they are the supposedly the main couple of Hazbin Hotel and have been together the longest out of most of the couples in HH and HB.

Of course having more casual representation is also fine but the most memorable thing about their relationship was the quickly resolved argument they had when Charlie found out about Vaggies past. I've seen different opinions about how they were handled as a pair.

I understand when someone says that they enjoyed a more relaxed couple with subtle, realistic interactions, interactions that are often overlooked just because both characters are female.

But I can also agree, that they were really not a stand-out couple (wich is weird since Charlie is the main Character) and that it was a bit dissapointing to not see a lot of content for them.

Now the main issue I found with this is that in Vivzepops stories there is a definitive lack of sapphic content. It sometimes seems like women are sexless unless they are with a man. But two men can be sexual and openly affectionate (romantically too). At first I didn't really understand why I felt weird about Chaggie as a couple, so I looked at all the implied/canon ships in Helluva and Hazbin (including past relationships).

Implied/canon couples between a man and a woman:

-Millie and Moxxie

-Blitzø and Verosika

-Stolas and Stella

-Millie and Chaz

-Beelzebub and Vortex

-Sir Pentious and Cherry Bomb

-Adam and Lute

-Lucifer and Lilith

Implied/canon couples between two men:

-Stolas and Blitzø

-Asmodeus and Fizzarolli

-Moxxie and Chaz

-Angel Dust and Husk

-Vox and Valentino

Implied/canon couples between two women:

-Charlie and Vaggie

Now please tell me if I missed any, but these were the ones I could think of.

Honorable mentions include Loona & Vortex, Blitzø & Striker, Blitzø & Chaz and Blitzø & Fizzarolli. But I didn't put these on there because they're either one-sided or don't have enough romantic content.

Now it's very easy to see the difference between representation for queer men in comparison to queer women in these shows. The only relevant (im not counting Background characters) Sapphic relationship there is, is Chaggie. And it's completely underrepresented when compared to the content the man x woman or man x man ships get (not to mention the total absence of gender-queer characters).

One of Millie's and Moxxie's jokes is that they're so in love, that they're almost always cuddling, holding hands, talking sweet or just straight up making out with eachother (I'll talk about Millie a bit later). Sir Pentious had multiple scenes dedicated to him trying to confess to Cherry Bomb or just crushing on her in general.

Stolas' and Blitzø's relationship has become one of the main topics of Helluva Boss and they get a Backstory and explicit aswell as dramatic scenes for them as a couple. The same goes for Asmodeus and Fizzarolli (except that their love isn't as important). Angel Dust and Husk get a song and part of an episode for their relationship to develop.

Here i'd also have to mention that by the list I made Vivzepop's fetish for queer men is very prevalent. Most of the couples between men and women are either past relationships or they get very little attention to them. The only ships that often get special focus, development or explicitly romantic/sexual focus are ships with two men (no matter if their dynamics are even good, healthy etc.).

Now for Millie there are different ways you could talk about her situation with relationships. In general I think that everyone can agree that Millie lacks Character and is a good representation for the neglect of the female characters. Most of her moments revolve around Moxxie in a way and she hasn't had precise characterization so far.

Millie's relationship with Moxxie is sweet and simple and is generally one of the better things about Helluva Boss (if you ignore Millies lack of personality wich really pulls the couple down for me). Now the Episode "Exes and Oohs" shows the mutual Ex of Millie and Moxxie. Chaz dated both of them and as we see in the episode affected both of them very negatively. At the start we literally see Millie freak out and destroy a bunch of stuff, just because she saw Chaz on the street.

Yet Millie's relationship with him is never explored further. All we know is that she dislikes him and that he's a giant asshole. Whereas Moxxie get's a whole Backstory and episode plot about him and Chaz. No focus is given to Millie at all even though Chaz is the ex of BOTH of them.

Another thing that I wanna point out is Millie's possible Bisexuality. Now im not so sure for this point because I couldn't find genuine confirmation on wether Millie is actually confirmed to be Bisexual or if it's just a headcannon. So take this with a grain of salt BUT if Millie is Bisexual then she perfectly shows how little Vivzepop cares about Sapphic representation. What does Moxxie get to confirm him as Bisexual? An ex of the same gender (also multiple explicit flashbacks with him), a whole discussion about his queer identity and a scene where he literally says that he's Bisexual. Moxxie is pretty good Bisexual representation in that regard.

What does Millie get? Nothing. Again I don't know if she's genuinely also Bisexual or if it's ever been confirmed but it'd also be pretty weird if Vivzepop apparently cares so much about queer representation and then doesn't confirm any female characters as actually queer.

I think a lot of people have talked about her blatant fetishization of queer men and I think that that's also mainly why I feel weird by the lack of attention on Vaggie and Charlie as a couple.

I sorta wish I could enjoy a more toned-down and realistic couple in these shows, but when I see that a ship like Vox and Alastor (wich isn't canon nor would it even happen since Alastor is Aroace) is talked about more than the actual main character's relationship I just don't like it.

There's so much more you could say about poor queer representation by Vivzepop (like the fact that she's fine with people ignoring Alastors Aroace identity, and the stereotypes etc) I mainly wanted to talk about the neglect of her female cast in terms of sexuality.

[flower-boi16]

Can we talk about the fact that TOH, a kid's show that aired on the Disney channel, has an unironically a better gay/sapphic relationship with Lumity than either of these "adult shows"?

Lumity is an incredibly well-developed ship; Its gradually built up throughout season 1 and season 2A and they don't drag the shit out of it, they are just incredibly cute together. The ship isn't abusive and toxic...

...unlike Stolitz, which is a very toxic ship where the victim is portrayed as the abuser and the abuser is framed as just an UwU soft boy. Another thing about Lumity that makes it a good relationship is the fact that Amity is her own character; she isn't solely defined by Luz, her relationship with Luz is an important part of her character, sure, but she still has a lot of development in the series that makes her a well-developed, three-dimensional character.

Compare that to Chaggie, which while not nearly as bad as Stolitz, still has issues, that being how Vaggie's character entirely revolves around Charlie, she doesn't have any real development outside of that. There is the stuff about her being a fallen angel but we'll have to see what the show does with it to make a full judgment, but the reveal that she is a fallen angel feels too rushed to give her depth.

Vaggie doesn't feel like her own character, she feels like she's completely defined by her relationship with Charlie, and she doesn't have that much of a character outside of that. Amity meanwhile, is her own character beyond her relationship with Luz, even in Season 2 where people say that supposedly Amity became just "Luz's girlfriend", she still had that whole conflict with her parents.

Lumity is infinitely superior to both of these ships guys.

Then again TOH blows HH/HB out of the water in every single aspect so...

[bibibbon]

I see that you're anti Bakugou blog, can I ask something because I'm really curious? Don't worry it's not hate ask (even if I'm Bakudeku shipper).

What I want to ask is the same in this post :

"I get preferring other ships, but if you hate them (BKDK), cannot stand them... you don't love the story. How could you? The narrative is built around their relationship. How they feel about each other at any given time is how you can tell the story is progressing. In both cases, they want to compete and surpass each other, which motivates them to train harder, to be better.

This is also why I don't get people who say they love one character but hate the other. Like, you cannot love Midoriya while hating Bakugou and vice versa.

They don't need to be your favorite characters, but you have to recognize their importance to your fav and their character arc. That is simply logical, in my opinion."

Thoughts, please?

First of all thank you for the question and not sending any hate comments that's very appreciated by me!

This is an interesting perspective and interpretation of the series, even if I don't see eye to eye with you or agree with this interpretation thank you for sharing it.

To begin this of I want to say that I don't particularly agree with the statement that you provided above. While the story in itself does revolve around izuku and bakugo to an extent its not exactly that big and I would argue that it shouldn't be that big of an involvement overall.

Izuku and bakugo's rivalry or the extended version which is the Canon one harms both the characters and the plot. This is because of how their rivalry naturally is which is toxic. @sapphic-agent goes into depth about how the wonder duo fails and of the toxicity of their supposed rivalry.

From the beginning izuku and bakugo's relationship was unhealthy whether that be from izukus non stop admiration even when bakugo abused him or bakugo who thought that izuku was a nuisance in his path. I think the best route for bakugos character was for him to ditch the rivalry route towards anyone. Bakugo as a character needed to accept that there are various people who will be weaker or stronger or different than him. He also needed to accept that society proping him up as this next big hero and ultimately feeding his ego was also wrong.

In the end I still have a lot of issues with bakugo's character individually that I did talk about previously and I think that overall he should of had an arc of breaking down his harmful thoughts, beliefs and behaviours. His arc needed more focus on his character and how he treats other people not just izuku.

I also want to argue that bakugo's arc isn't that well written at all. He doesn't really change and the change we do see from his underwhelming due to a number of reasons whether that be his horrible apology or his behaviour not really changing and being played off as a gag or the way we see bakugo still uphold his old behaviour heck it's all around his arc him being the only character to follow the idea of not saving someone or him just being hyperfixated on a rivalry that doesn't have equal footing.

I think the bakugo vs izuku fight part 2 showed a lot of bakugo and izukus problems within their relationship really well. I also think that was the arc where bakugo should of been separated from izuku having people acknowledge the toxicity of their relationship as bakugo thinks izuiu owes him an explanation when he doesn't or how izuku is supposed to overcome his admiration for bakugo and realise that what bakugo did to him was wrong. @delawaredetroit made a lot of analysis based on that fight which I think is worth checking out because they point out good bakugo critiques that horikoshi doesn't address and simply let's slide for bakugo while painting his and izukus relationship as perfectly fine and a healthy rivalry that moves the story.

In the end for bakugo he becomes a character attached to izuku ultimately having no real relevance outside of izuku and that sucks for him as he isn't even able to grow an we aren't able to see that change with the way he Interacts with the world.

Now moving onto izuku's character. Izuku due to horikoshis writing decisions also suffered a lot due this supposes rivalry. Izuku doesn't ever acknowledge the abuse that bakugo committed ultimately since he doesn't ever get to either introspect or freely express emotions about this issue his whole character starts to lack introspection and hinders him from forming valuable character relationships that can help push the narrative forward as he comes to understand heroes, civillians and villains alike. Izuku also never gets a say in the relationship he ultimately becomes more passive and a shell of his former self as the series goes on to the point that we don't see him react to losing his quirk (no the moment is focused on bakugo crying instead) and we don't see izukus response to the apology that bakugo offered.

It seems that throughout their relationship izuku who once had potential and so much going for him went through one of the worst cases of character regressions and assassinations that I have ever seen . At least before the rivalry started we saw izuku express fear, awe,anger and so many more emotions towards bakugo but now he is an empty shell a clean slate that cannot feel any negative emotions towards him at all.

Going back to my original point the narrative isn't fully built around their relationship and while they do have major themes such as win to save and save to win, their relationship in itself doesn't bring much to the narrative it actually just harms their characters and makes them lack depth even more.

Izuku already has a character who is supposed to be his rival, whose supposed to challenge his views, whose supposed to understand him and be understood by him and that character is shigaraki yet horikoshi doesn't build up on their relationship and only throws parallels around when it comes to those two making the final war arc a dissatisfactionary and disappointing rollercoster filled with mountains of wasted potential.

From the beginning the story to me had a clear path that bakugo wasn't supposed to be a primary character in the series he was supposed to be something that izuku overcame, he was supposed to be a challenge that showed the damage that society caused but that wasn't the case and the direction that hori took the story ended up harming every aspect of the story whether that be the unexplored plot point of quirkless discirmation (which many speculate is unexplored to make bakugo not look bad) or the final fight between shigaraki and izuku that lacked any build up whatsoever (toga and ochako had a better one because they had time to develop)

So to sum it up while the two characters relationship is present within the series its not a well written one at all and it isn't a primary relationship that develops both izuku and bakugo but more of a relationship that develops bakugos character and hinders izukus character.

[touchoffleece]

Apology in Advance for the probable incoming Sulemio v Destiel Poll posts.

There are layers to why the dumb ship poll has me feeling so passionate, some are: -Sulemio more or less checked off a Bucket List Want I thought I would die before seeing it become a reality. That being: a Sapphic Anime couple where the main focus and story doesn't revolve around discovering or accepting their sexuality and showing it can be a successful story public perception wise and money wise (G Witch has some of that self discovery stuff but it's like a D or E level plot). And having it so the gay relationship can't be perceived away as besties or sisterhood or with a Bury Your Gays end. -wlw/GL ships constantly getting overshadowed by mlm ships or get played down to hype up mlm ships because "there can only be 1 lgbtqi+ ship" mentality in fandoms. -Sulemio fandom was vibing and more or less quiet until this rewoke us up here on Tumblr. We are all once again speaking and writing deep analytical lengthy posts about how deep, well written and portrayed the love between both characters were not only in subtext but throughly explicit sentences in dialogue or actions of Suletta and Miorine, and the world around them. I am very happy to join in and revisit the awesomeness that their story was since I can't truly replicate the journey that was watching their story as it developed in real time. (Shout out to my 2 het cis male acquaintances who nagged me to give G Witch a shot back when only ep 0 and 1 were out you guys freaking amazing. Bros gave me unforgettable memories.) -But a big one I see not getting talked about a lot is how this match up is giving a big and much needed reality check to western-media-live-action-only-consumers/fans that: Just because something is an animation it does not make that type of art/storytelling/show/whatever you want to call it inferior to live action. A few years back I saw so many west live action tv fans shit endlessly and mercilessly on Magical Girl Utena because of a similar ship poll where it had come down to live action fandom ship vs canon anime ship. (iykyk, I don't want to restart that shit up again since it hurt a lot to watch as someone who liked the ship that was leading but didn't watch Utena-I'm too weak for that hurt- see the show and its contribution towards actual wlw/gl representation get shit on) A lot of the criticisms and punchlines of statements were mocking people for getting attached to cartoons as "grown ass adults"; a criticism any animation enjoyer probably knows all too well. Post so many animation shows in western streaming sites get cancelled or be erased and locked behind vaults because the CEOs think there is no fanbase or value in creating animation, this sentiment more towards animated shows with depth in their stories. I think back to that poll and the ensuing shit show. To think about that back then and see a reflection of that situation with the Ship (Sulemio) that has been stated to be inspired by the ship from Utena (Utenanthy) that was shat on so much by similar media consumers back then who perceived and said animation is a lesser form of storytelling-after seeing so many animation shows I enjoyed get cancelled because of this same sentiment from people thinking no adult wants animation as entertainment- to see Sulemio beat "the greater known" ship from a western live action media show that didn't even want the gay representation associated with itself, it feels like properly bandaging a seeping wound that you were letting "dry out". This all still feels like ship war with ships and fandoms that shouldn't have reason to beef, but the catharsis of seeing such a: powerful, moving, and overall amazing story that is Gundam the Witch from Mercury (free on Youtube to watch btw) and Sulemio's love story get recognized when it still feels like animation as a storytelling device gets looked down upon and has partially been erased, is making me cautiously optimistic that maybe in a few years we can get our amazing in depth animated shows that got taken away because animated storytelling is "just for kids" or "isn't good enough".

[effypcfcwrites]

The Owl House

(Originally posted on my personal Facebook dated April 25, 2023)

This is probably the first time I'll be posting a detailed review of a piece of media that I like, so witness me sing all of my praises for this animated series from the House of Mouse, because wow, I've never been so invested in a Disney show after rewatching Gravity Falls.

For those unfamiliar, The Owl House revolves around Luz Noceda, a teenage girl who stumbles upon a portal to an alternate world called The Boiling Isles, meets a witch named Eda Clawthorne, learns magic under her tutelage and eventually enrolls in Hexside, a magic school where she makes many friends and goes on multiple adventures.

I binged this whole show in a span of weeks and even stayed up all night on my day off to finish it up to Season 3, the first 2 Seasons being on Disney+ and the latter on Disney Channel's YouTube page.

Simply put, I love it so much! I love how it reminds me of Avatar: The Last Airbender, Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, and, dare I say, Harry Potter, which it even poked fun at, at times. Well-deserved, considering J.K. Rowling’s transphobic views and HP’s underlying anti-Semitic undertones.

I loved the pop culture references to Thor: Ragnarok, Howl's Moving Castle, Metal Gear Solid, and even Hades, among many others! I thought those were very clever and funny, and just a treat for fellow nerds, geeks, and fans of fantasy stories, anime, and video games.

I love the LGBTQ+ representation all throughout the show, which was such a bold move considering Disney’s iffy stance on the subject. None of them were antagonized for it, and it was treated as something normalized in both the Human and Demon Realms. The show featured 2 gay dads, non-binary and aromantic-asexual characters, and one of the internet’s favorite sapphic/WLW couples Lumity, which is the ship consisting of canonically bisexual Luz and implied lesbian Amity Blight, whose rivals-to-friends-to-lovers relationship was just so wholesome, so natural, and very healthy, considering they're both teenagers. Suprisingly, there was very little melodrama, not once were they petty towards one another whenever either party did something wrong, and they never got tired of showing affection towards each other. I found myself shamelessly gushing over how cute, adorable, and supportive they were together, and tearing up a lot during key moments of their relationship, especially when they both found themselves in dire straits as the story progressed.

I love the writing and the character development of them all! None of them felt static, they all grew throughout the series, maturing, getting better, and healing from their own insecurities, trauma, and guilt. The humor and comedic timing was a nice touch, and I was really taken aback by how S2 ended on such a dark cliffhanger with all stakes raised to the roof, similar to A:TLA S2 and The Empire Strikes Back, as mentioned earlier. That season wasn’t afraid to have such a grim ending, with such a great payoff by the end of S3 which is worth celebrating.

I love the animation and art style, which blended colorful and whimsical with eerie and ominous in just the right amounts. As a sucker for animated movies and series such as Adventure Time, The Prince of Egypt, and Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, it was just such a delight watching it.

I love the overarching message of the show, which is to be truly yourself, to embrace your quirks, and never to limit yourself and your potential based on what the majority of society and the powers-that-be expect from you. All throughout, you’ll find the characters challenging pre-established norms and roles, and it’s just so satisfying seeing them all win.

11/10 top-tier show. Don’t @ me, it’s hard for me to find something I disliked about the series. It's definitely a must-watch, especially if you're sick and tired of all the bleak nihilism of modern adult animation, and you just want to baby your inner child and escape to a whimsical fantasy world with characters you can all relate to. Betting my bottom peso you'll all be hooked, like I was.

[lesbyeen]

Sapphic Subtext Chibis Day 7: Glinda and Elphaba

This was like a baby’s first lesbian ship for me lmao

I have some STORIES revolving around this show and this ship oh my god, this was my shit from like 14-17

The costuming in this was a bitch to draw so again, it’s been simplified 🫠

[tothepointofinsanity]

Do you have any super into detail thoughts on kyosaya? I know you've drawn a few art pieces for the ship, but I haven't seen any written think pieces about it from you.

I know there are some who don't like to use ships as a way to tie to a characters personality, so I guess I'm curious what your overall thoughts are on it and how it ties into sayaka as a whole.

"Think pieces" is a pretty neat way to put it...The primary foundation of KyoSaya to me revolves around a uniquely sapphic relationship that I hope would be expanded upon in future shows in the series.

↑ Yet, what are all these words supposed to mean? Sayaka has always done things for the sake of others. Her sense of justice elevated to the point where she views herself as a knight, someone who kneels in the face of goodness in respect of whatever is honourable to maintain it. But a knight is just another form of a pawn, just a stronger one whom everyone perceives has the ability to: 1) protect others 2) kill The Enemy.

Sayaka used to only ever have been able to interpret this in an extreme and binary vision. If she has to defend others, she has to devote herself fully to the cause. To her, the notion of self-care and self-preservation is difficult to comprehend since she feels as though she always has to be a monolith of one singular thing, of one side of things. To her, everything is like a chessboard. There is no way to play knight for both teams at once: either you prioritise yourself, or you prioritise others.

I understand that it is also a realistic depiction of how individuals like Sayaka constantly push through their own struggles alone while always uplifting others, a demonstration of unbalanced relationship dynamics. When this vision is challenged, Sayaka does not know where and how else she is expected to just "move forward" when she realised reality is not a simple game of chess. So she shrinks her view of the world further by clashing with Kyoko, since Kyoko is The Enemy who obstructs Sayaka's own perception of all that is Good and Just. Sayaka knew she was manipulated by Cubey™, but it was not only in the later movies that she comprehended the full extent of it. Something like that feels too complicated in her mind, so it's easier, much less burdensome to just lock onto one person to be angry with. This mentality is almost a sort of fallacy for Sayaka given she becomes a Witch in every cycle she becomes a magical girl.

Sayaka wants to feel relied on by humans. Kyoko does not desire nor expect anything from people, and thus balances out the extremes of Sayaka by being detached from worldly expectations - at least, that is what's consistent with Kyoko's perception of herself. A puppet without strings. She is not a pawn, not a knight. That's why she was angry when she realised the wish-granting alien omitted information on magical girl mechanisms and their life cycles. Instead of shovelling forward headstrong like Sayaka, however, Kyoko reconsiders her childhood memories and her desire, and it was to die with Sayaka so that Sayaka would not have, in Kyoko's eyes, perished for the sake of The Greater Good, because Kyoko believes still in the Self, not the vague promise of a better future.

Uhm. It's probably nonsense now that I put it in legible words. Some other KyoSaya fans who are big brained enough should educate me more on their dynamic, but I find their relationship to be interesting. It's very fallen angel x demon coded. I feel...as though Sayaka and Kyoko are hard to separate given they exist as characters that neutralise and support each other. Perhaps not codependent, but Sayaka was unhinged enough for Homura to not threaten her once, but twice whenever Madoka's feelings are involved. Meanwhile Homura was more...tolerant of Kyoko. Kyoko is there to keep Sayaka in check to make sure she doesn't piss off the Devil to the next century, and to me that is also funny.

[Although, it is tragic that since Sayaka embodies the sea, the only way Kyoko can only be with her "in death" due to the theme of Ophelia, her lover and the flame of the witch. Who could have predicted the doomed yuri is doomed. A sinking ship, even.]

[yioh]

this is so obviously due to misogyny tho why are we acting confused? in any form of media, the stories with male character most likely will ALWAYS sell better, hence why straight and BL stories are so beloved. yuri stories are only beloved by wlw most of the time because they don’t pander toward straight men and other than that, no one has any interest in stories that don’t revolve around men. this is why every story that doesn’t have a male character is such a Win for me. i’m still so pleasantly surprised and happy with the success for “the guy she was interested in wasn’t a guy at all” and the drama “jeong nyeon” it’s lovely that wlw stories are finally being picked up but …. idk look at ao3 ship stats, no one cares abt the sapphic girlies as much 💀 but this is such a terrible way of consuming media - is it because people want to be attracted to male characters? how can we develop and learn as people if we don’t read about other demographics and type of people? i personally want to read abt characters of different ages, gender, jobs, social status etc etc it’s so insane to me that ppl can only obsess over conventionally attractive male characters 😭

[carma-tjol]

Miscellaneous OPM Characters as Lady Gaga Songs

please read this oh my god I spent so much time... there's some meta scattered in there I promise.

Fubuki

Telephone

Bloody Mary

Eh Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)

Telephone - because I watched an Instagram edit that used it and now I have it permanently associated with her. Fubuki has a fun and glamourous aesthetic and I feel like the song reflects that too Bloody Mary - because of the "I wont crucify the things you do" line. it reminds me of all the people she knows that are like. highly problematic but she's irremovably tied into their lives and ultimately accepts them. Eh Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say) - there are relationships she's had that fell tragically because of, while among other things, her own personal flaws and ego. It's tragic, but she really wasn't equipped to handle everything thrown at her at the time. there really is "nothing else [she] can say" anymore. Imagining her with this song puts a lighthearted twist on the woe of it.

Psykos

Summerboy

So Happy I Could Die

Teeth

MANiCURE

Summerboy - I like to imagine it as Psykos having the summerboy's POV. Feeling disposable and like she got played by Fubuki, she is left to sort of sourly reminisce on what could've been. So Happy I Could Die - for that INTENSE SAPPHIC ANGST. Also I like the concept of like. attempting to use sexuality to cope with severe internal turmoil. I love this song sooo much. Teeth - vibes I guess MANiCURE - "SHE WANNA BE MAN CURED!" so basically more sapphic stuff but campier and less gut wrenching this time lol.

Genos

(... god I initially struggled finding stuff for him HARD but ended up with 4 things. what.)

Replay

I Like It Rough

Shallow

Paparazzi (bonus)

Replay - Lady Gaga is talking about trauma and PTSD taking over and effecting every part of her life, which I feel like is relevant. "Every single day, yeah I dig a grave Then I sit inside it wondering if I'll behave" I Like It Rough - I've always interpreted this song as only ever experiencing harshness from people, not knowing how process kindness, and struggling to decipher sincerity. Which I feel like, removed from all the sex stuff, fits Genos pretty well thematically. Shallow - I don't really mean this in a ship way here (to be honest, one sided genos pining is my ideal! But that's not relevant here) but I can think of this song with Genos and Saitama's relationship and how at its core, One Punch Man revolves around them. They represent the central themes of companionship and how humanity is based on relationships with others. They try to "fill that void" with each other and Genos looks at Saitama worried, when will it be enough? (When will HE be enough?) Also I enjoy listening to songs where there is some form of disappearance or death and imagining the MA arc. I did that a tonnn with Sweet Talking Woman by ELO a while back, something about mixing the love song about chasing someone with the tragedy of the MA arc and how Genos became unattainable really clicked for me. (Fun fact, I had 182 listens for that song on my Spotify wrapped... pretty much all thinking of Genos) I'm supposed to be talking about Lady Gaga though oops. "Crash through the surface, where they cant hurt us We're far from the shallow now." They've experienced the same alienation, whether inflicted or self imposed and were able to drag each other out of it. Perhaps there's comfort in the similarity. Paparazzi (bonus lol) - If you enjoy leaning into Genos's weird obsession, this is the song for you! He's a little neurotic...

Flashy Flash and Sonic

I'm giving them the same song

Speechless

Speechless "In your tight jeans With your long hair and your cigarette stained lies Could we fix you if you broke? And is your punch line just a joke?" I connect it by thinking about how much weight their relationship held in their lives. Each of their dreams had the other in it. And I think that losing that was a bit worldshattering. "Would you give it all up If I promise, boy, to you?" Eyyyy we were left on a bit of a cliffhanger right? Flash was trying to ask sonic something but got cut off by the other ninjas. "We could-" we could what, Flash? we. could. what. (Team up again? Please I'm literally on my hands and knees begging, yet I know it's never that easy with OPM)

Amai Mask

Beautiful, Dirty Rich

The Fame

Beautiful, Dirty Rich - It's about fame! Living the high life! He's like a major celebrity and a diva so I think it works. Just ignore the bit where it says "but we've got no money" because he definitely has money. The Fame - similar thought process

Webigaza

Applause

Applause - She "lives for the applause!" The fame itself is empty without her fans.

Do-S (aka BONUS! other songs I like but had zero use for)

Love Game

Money Honey

Bad Romance

Poker Face

Government Hooker

Judas

not sexual enough for Do-S but I really like Americano too.

okay I'm done with these now I'm literally going insane

[madworldmarvelareview]

my experience with extreme force shipping, anti lesbianism/sapphicism, and anti indigenous rhetoric on a roleplay server that claims not to perpetrate any of the above. 

i’m certain head mod summer will call this defamatory, as she did to the honest review (1 star) by my writing partner on disboard, so i’ve taken the time to include screenshots alongside my review below. any prospective members, current or past are welcome to message this account, or find me on discord @ dinahbabs.

marvelous mad world is a server that revolves around ass kissing the mod, summer, and her best friend, kelsey, while they berate you. the issues arise quickly when saying no, even nicely.. no is not an answer these two will accept, if they have their heart set on something.

to start us off, there was only 1 lesbian character on the server before i arrived, and i don't think they had any lesbian members. this will provide some context as we go along.

i first encountered lesbophobia when i didn’t want my lesbian (irene adler) in a throuple with a man (forge, married to mystique)— where the lesbian was treated as if she was an accoutrement to an m/f relationship, not a woman of her own. please note that i was never asked to be in this arrangement in any way, and i was also continuously told it wouldn't be an issue, i saw in character that two characters (raven and forge) were in a relationship (where raven says her heart has only room enough for him), leaving me open to do my own thing as the rules already state, and as one of the members confirmed in my dms. i was excited to go my own way and make something new.

the server's rules:

alt text: pressuring or manipulating others for ships or connections gets exactly 1 warning, and then a ban. absolutely no debate on this. you may ask, but do not under any circumstances pester, harass, or otherwise bug people about connections. no means no.

upon my exit, it was said that i “didn’t speak to the members in question” and went against server wishes. in the following screenshot you’ll see that i let moderators know i didn’t attempt to reach out yet because the person in question did not answer my past plotting dms, and the server policy clearly stated ships are free to create at your leisure as noted above.

before: pre acceptance screenshot.

after: summer lying about me asking to be told to speak to member kelsey, when i was accepted, knowing kelsey didn't answer. i reference here that i knew mystique was married, and made my other plans for a different ship.

member kelsey never answered my plotting dms, at which point i had made other plans, instead, she messaged me in character, which resulted in the following conversation between raven and irene:

irene telling raven she's moving on and did not have interest in a throuple.

when i conveyed my desire for my character to continue onto a new relationship, i was punished in and outside of character for doing so. 

where i make everyone clear i made other ship plans when i saw raven was married. (i would have told kelsey in dms, if she ever answered me, instead i noted their coparenting, that was shot down later.)

reaction from summer's forge: why would my lesbian character want a man in the first place?

reaction from summer's forge: irene never broke up a marriage, and sapphic characters are not property if you name a kid after them.

kelsey's raven and summer's forge reaction to irene not wanting to be their third?? i can't make this up.

mod summer's true intentions laid clear: irene never canonically said what was stated in the claremont run, raven hated forge after irene died, and raven/irene only recently defeating 40 years of homophobia to be together means nothing if summer can get m/f out of it.

the strangeness continues with anti indigenous behaviour, so much so that they named a child after my lesbian character (destiny), used a picture of an indigenous child, and coloured her pink/red, as if that isn’t added anti-indigeniety on display. 

indigenous child they coloured red.

later claiming to be purple after a review was posted.

hex coded proof, all red.

when i declined their ship, they said they were switching back to the child’s tribal name (the way it should have been!) “threatening” to refer to an indigenous child as her tribal name over a ship fallout feels so ugly. indigenous names are not a punishment. i replied to this blatant anti-indigenous and incel-like response with “my character would love that tribal name, actually!” to no response. 

proof of the change of name. after that, they only called this child "d".

that issue is further pressed with the demand of face claims, and yet mods use the wrong ethnicity or tribes for indigenous muses. it’s a shame with the amount of diversity, including a plethora of comic art, that they would not recognize that issue, and revert to art for characters that can’t be cast correctly. there is also a rule against problematic face claims but those with allegations of SA are still used as far as i can see. 

a few friends of mine were kicked the first day of pride, for a variety of things,

screenshot of the random group kick.

what i said back to it.

screenshot of the announcement after the group kick. two.

but the only ones i had anything to do was denying the mod and kelsey a ship, and asking for clarification about a comment made by another user. or maybe just being friends with them? who knows, since the ban message was for a group and not very specific. i remain not upset, since i stayed only to support my friends and am glad to be free of a place where female and non binary characters exist largely to be sexualized, but since there’s a one way narrative, it deserves to be cleared up as they beg their members for good reviews on disboard. 

the rules tell you not to only write ship things, but at least half of the server, if not more is all gratuitous and public (badly characterized, badly written) porn, or 2 line ship dialogue. all the conflict has been stripped away, and all that remains is love triangles, which the mod summer or member kelsey has placed herself at the center of for attention. thus, if your character if not in love with either’s roster, or are their “child”, you will be ignored and not privy to plots unless you invite yourselves to them. 

no villains are allowed, except the ones mod summer finds attractive, and then you have to stomach people writing rapists in group chats! lovely, and went dismissed when inquired about, since half of the villains on the ban list (like vulcan) have done less evil than the villains accepted (creed, canon rapist), or requested (like jason wyngarde, canon rapist). 

every other character by those two bears no resemblance to their canon iterations. 

mystique runs around calling her partner daddy, and is kelsey’s most sexualized character. she uses a black woman for raven while doing this, while her white roster is not treated the same. 

the server’s victor creed was said they removed SA from his history, but he threatens to seggsually assault mystique in a text thread. no action when this was brought up to staff, they said “raven wanting creed is a part of her marriage, so this (clearly worded SA threat while raven said no) was not actually SA. no offer to privatize the thread, or improvements on their tagging system to denote when there was blatant rape. 

server is also so low on lore knowledge they made jokes about scott summers and prof x having sex, as if prof didn’t meet scott as a minor aged child, and as if scott doesn’t see prof as a father figure! truly jarring to run a server without knowing base level info that results in grooming/incest jokes being made. 

when confronted with this triggering content, mods promised to implement a better spoilering and tagging system, and then never went ahead with it.  as of 6/19, has done nothing still.

the application demands a writing sample that showcases a lot of things, including dialogue, long introspection, but you won’t need it. the vast majority of what’s written here is 1 liner dms and smut. which really isn’t an issue, but if the average thread is two sentences, outside of their plot drabbles, which were admittedly nice by some members (when they made sense).

the server boasts two warnings, of which you will only receive none, if you nicely decline offers to ship with the mods. i would steer clear. the effort you have to put in to get approved is not worth putting up with the mods as they are. anyways big fuck you for trying to force me into a ship, expect my lesbian to be subsumed by your heterosexual pairing, and then be lesbophobic even after i left! lesbians aren’t side characters. you wouldn’t know that, or care, since i saw what you said after i left and it was heinous. as expected. 

as you can tell if you've been keeping up, i never had raven tell irene to fuck off. i was forced to say, in character, that irene was moving on, because member kelsey never answered dms.

lesbophobia post exit: one, two, three (discussing my writing partner's lesbian character).

so bad that they had to make an announcement about how lesbophobic their server was and how to behave. two.

classy party! on pride, to boot. no one in these screens is a lesbian, as you can guess, and the main perpetrators never apologized! not even to the server, who had to witness it all.

overall stop begging for server reviews, server likes, accept that you did things wrong, learn, private your server and enjoy your weird anti indigenous anti sapphic circlejerk! and never pressure people to ship again, you suck.

this next part is specifically for kelsey, who took it upon herself to be extra lesbophobic after my exit. no need to read unless you’re her. 

kelsey, you didn’t know i’d picked another ship because you never bothered to dm me back lol! not that i wanted to ship with you anyway after the way you treated me, and your atrocious characterizations, not just of mystique. i was also never demanded to contact you before apping, as evidenced below once more. 

link back to the conversation with gansey.

trying to accuse me of not reading irene comics (i have read all of her appearances over twice in their entirety), and that i didn’t “know her” feels nuts to come from a raven characterization with no depth except for her vaginal canal. maybe i just knew raven and irene well enough not to want to ship with a character written by you, whose most used words were “daddy” “fill me good” and who was so oversexualized as a black woman written by you, one as white as me, i felt so uncomfortable— and since i knew i’d read more raven than you ever will, would be wasting my time, and would derive no pleasure out of writing with a self insert. 

its bad when even your own friends joked about you killing your characters / banned you from doing it for attention when you weren’t getting enough. i’d tell you to log off and get some friends but get the sense keeping them would be a problem for you, you don’t seem like someone who puts the work into anything. 

your research about meg and i, who has only been writing for two years, confusing one sapphic for another, no doubt comes from your friend and server co mod “esther” formerly jackie, who was run off tumblr at least three times for derailing black lives matter discussions with white / personal issues and being anti romani, which she was in her server i was in too! she did a great job of pretending to hold herself accountable, but it all was told to us by a friend after. she’s now banned from a bunch of communities because of it. bet you didn’t know that, she’s tried to hide it quite well, but we all know who she is, and her life is largely a lie to rebrand after being run off multiple writing communities within the last 10 years. like you, she sexualized her characters that have been survivors of sexual abuse. i’m happy to be disliked by a person like that, and by you. 

i suspect you’ll continue to be friends with her because you’re twins, hiding behind online attention and praise because you’ll never have it in real life the way you dream of so badly, compensating by getting angry when someone doesn’t worship you. you crave the attention, and so i’ll make this the last time you ever get it from me. i’ll forget about you tomorrow, but you’ll always remember, won’t you? people like you always do. 

nothing but the best ahead,

liv

[danisbrainrot]

now what are YOUR controversial or unpopular opinions about yellowjackets? 🤭

1. I'm tired of everyone making jackieshauna the most important lesbian ship. I swear it's all like, 'look, look. yellowjackets are about lesbians! jackieshauna is proof. lottienat is so gay!' when taivan is literally there! and canon! like I get it, I love all those ships, but at the end of the day yj has two canonical sapphic ships and everyone ignores them.

2. misty and walter need to break up ASAP. I'm done with that plotline. like that's a full lesbian, stop making all her storylines revolve around men! let crystal's ghost haunt her! let nat's ghost haunt her! fuck walter!

3. I'm gonna need adult shauna to shut the fuck up sometimes. I love her, but OMG she says some rancid shit. especially to misty after everything that girl did for her (helping her deliver her dead baby, helping her get rid of her dead lovers corpse, etc.)

4. season three needs to be coach ben's last, they need to wrap his storyline up.

5. speaking of seasons, in an ideal world id watch a thousand seasons, but I don't see how they can make more than five. they're rushing through the timeline too quickly, unless they're gonna include after they are rescued. also, I fear for the next seasons because some of the writing went down hill this season (I still love it, but yeah, there were a few plotlines and scenes I went "what the fuck? do we need this? was this thought through?"). season 1 was just so good, it's hard to follow and I feel like a lot of season two didn't make sense because they had to change things for sensitivity reasons (like lottie's mental health copped a lot of backlash, so that might be the reason she wasn't as full on as season one).

[divinemiracles]

Let’s Discuss: Lunter

Lunter is one of my favorite ships so it makes me upset to see the controversy that revolves around it. I will be giving my input to some of the comments that people say about the ship.

If anyone has any more questions/comments about this relationship, please submit them to me through an ask. I will answer them and add them to this “masterlist.”

Remember: This ship is all about the viewer’s perspective on the relationship. Everyone in the fandom views this differently and all opinions should be respected.

-

“Lumity/Huntlow Is Canon!”

While this is (partially) true, this should not be a reason to dislike ships consisting of Luz and Amity with other people. Remember that ships do not change canon. Lumity will always remain canon and Huntlow will always remaine Semi-canon.

The reason that I say Semi-Canon for Huntlow is because though they both have canon feelings for one another, they have not explicitly stated in the show that they are dating. Of course, things could be happening off-screen but the true definition of a canon relationship is if the two characters have stated that they have a relationship.

Of course, this means that Lunter is not canon since they have not dated, let alone shown romantic feelings to one another. This should be obvious but that is okay. A ship does not have to be canon to be shipped by the fandom.

“It’s Erasing Sapphic Representation”

Like I stated before, shipping something that is not canon does not effect canon. Lumity will still always be canon and I’m not trying to change that nor are some other Lunter shippers.

Yes, Dana worked hard to get sapphic content on her show but shipping Luz with a man within her age range is still valid. Luz is Bisexual, let her have her sexuality; I am saying this as a bisexual woman myself. Bisexual means attracted to two or more genders. Let Luz be bisexual.

Shipping Lunter would be bad if someone were to only see The Owl House for wlm relationships and not take into account that Lumity exists or dislike it for being a sapphic relationship.

“It is fatphobic.”

Shipping Hunter with characters that are not plus-sized is not against plus-sized characters at all; it is only fatphobic if the shipper does it because they dislike Willow or Huntlow for having a relation to a plus-sized character.

“Luz is fourteen and Hunter is sixteen.”

Fourteen and sixteen is an alright age gap for teenagers to be dating; it is a freshmen and a junior. It is not an uncommon age gap for teenagers to date. Also, by season three, Luz is fifteen because of the time skip. Fifteen and sixteen is a perfectly valid age gap for two people to date as well.

It is alright because it is a gap by two years, not three, four, or more.

“It is toxic.”

Lunter is not toxic at all. More importantly, the term “toxic” is way too overused that it feels as if people are forgetting the real definition of the term.

A toxic relationship is a relationship that makes one feel unsupported, misunderstood, demeaned, or attacked. A relationship is toxic when someone’s well-being is threatened in some way—emotionally, psychologically, and even physically.

Throughout Luz and Hunter’s screentime, they have not shown any signs of toxicity. They have not hurt each other. Before anyone mentions Hunting Palismen, just remember: Luz slapping Hunter did not have an intent of harming him, she just wanted him to wake up. Hunter was too shocked to process it and he did not get triggered. They did not ever purposely attempt to mistreat each other and make each other feel unsafe.

By Season 3, they had a perfectly healthy relationship and both supported one another. Luz did care about Hunter when he cried in Thanks To Them, she just didn’t want to overload him with emotions nor shame him for crying which is why she was so “bland” during that scene. Keep in mind, she was also dealing with her own problems so she was neutral during that entire episode.

“It is homophobic and heteronormative.”

Lunter is not homophobic nor heteronormative. Just because Lunter is a straight-passing ship does not mean those who enjoy it are all people who believed in heteronormativity. Remember that straight-passing relationships are not straight relationships, they’re just a woman and man dating. If you go by the rule that wlm relationships are heteronormative, then Huntlow would be equally as bad, which neither Lunter nor Huntlow is bad.

While there are problematic Lunter shippers, we do not accept those shippers at all. Those shippers that classify Lunter as a heterosexual ship and/or discard of Luz’s bisexuality are not welcomed here.

“Hunter needs to deal with his own trauma before getting into a relationship.”

Just because someone has trauma doesn’t mean that they should be forbidden from entering relationships. You can believe that Hunter is aroace or shouldn’t be shipped, but that does not mean you should prevent others from shipping him. He can still be in a relationship.

Significant others can help people with their trauma. They can assure that the one suffering is safe and give them validation. Luz would most certainly help Hunter since she had her own trauma; they can help each other.

“They are siblings.”

Oh, boy. I’ve been waiting to cover this one since it gets on my nerves.

This is all up to interpretation. All sibling relationships are different: some siblings act like Luz and Hunter, some do not.

The show is completed and neither Camila nor Eda have adopted Hunter or discussed wanting to adopt him. Hunter being adopted by Camila is not canon since it has never been stated inside of the show.

Feel free to headcanon them as siblings if you wish but remember that those are headcanons, not canon.

“But Luz referred to Hunter as family” people may say. Yes, she did say “You’re family now” in Thanks To Them, but you have to consider that there are many different ways that could be interpreted.

First of all, she is Afro-Latina. Some Latinx people refer to their close ones as family and not actually mean that they view them as family. I am Filipina, which is another nationality that does things like this. Would I consider my best friend a sibling to me? No, they’re just friends but due to our closeness, I call them family.

Also, she could have meant it as in found family. The definition of found family is “a group of characters find themselves united in a family-bond based on shared experiences, mutual understanding, and interpersonal connection” not family family. Hunter and Luz being found family does not make them siblings.

“All of these reasons are invalid. You do know fiction affects reality, correct?”

Fiction does affect reality, yes, since people may attempt to copy what they see on the media, but keep in mind this is not illegal. I’m stating that Luz and Hunter are not siblings since Camila and Eda have not canonically adopted Hunter. They may appear to have a sibling bond to some viewers but not have a sibling bond to others.

“You stated that some things are all about perspective, right? Then would you be fine with shipping Amity with men, specifically Amiter?”

Of course not. Amity is a canon lesbian while Luz is bisexual. The only time Amiter is valid is if the shipper genuinely headcanons Hunter as a transgender woman or non-binary.

With Amity being a canon lesbian, it has been confirmed in the show since the notebook in Thanks To Them had a lesbian heart (and bisexual heart for Luz) on the notebook.

How I view things being canon is if it was shown in the show, not any tweets outside of the show since those are technically interpretations from the team on the characters. This is just how I view it personally, this does not go for everyone.

Yes, Raine is still non-binary. They use they/them pronouns in the show.

“Do you ship adoptive siblings and headcanon that they’re not siblings and just close?”

No, I do not. That is very problematic and no one should do that since in canon the two characters the person are shipping are still siblings. Blood does not matter in legal family. The final has aired and Camila (and Eda) have not adopted or discussed adopting Hunter. This proves that Luz and Hunter are not siblings.

-

Recap

Lunter is neither erasing sapphic representation from the show nor is it homophobic. Not shipping Luz and Amity is not changing the canon content of the show; Lumity will still and always be canon. It would be a problem, though, if someone were to ship Lunter just because they dislike Lumity for being LGBTQIA+ and/or sapphic (WLW). It is okay to ship Luz and Amity with other people as long as you don’t ship Amity with men.

Luz is bisexual, meaning she is attracted to two or more genders. She should be allowed to be bisexual and she should be allowed to date men.

Shipping Amity with men would, in fact, be homophobic since it has been explicitly stated in the show that she is lesbian from a photo that had a lesbian heart next to her (with a bisexual heart next to Luz). Amity and Hunter would be okay only if you were to headcanon Hunter as a transgender woman or non-binary and genuinely mean it.

Luz and Hunter can help each other with their trauma. Their trauma should not be a reason to not get into a relationship. Keep in mind that Lumity is still canon though Luz has trauma.

Lunter is only fatphobic if it is shipped by someone who holds a grudge against Willow or Huntlow for Willow being plus-sized. Most shippers do not ship it for these reasons, making it not fatphobic.

The age gap is not a problem because it is only by two years. It is also hinted that Luz could be fifteen by Season 3, so there is no problem.

Their relationship dynamic is up to perspective. It’s okay if you view them as siblings and headcanon them as such but that’s not canon since neither Eda nor Camila have canonically adopted Hunter.

[honeybabymp3]

you know what sucks ass? ppl love to draw parallels between larries (a community of mostly straight girls/women fetishizing gay men) and gaylors (a community of mostly sapphic women who see themselves represented by frankly pretty ambiguous art). it's just not the same especially considering how gaylors will get some of the most vile homophobic shit sent their way and the fandom will ALWAYS excuse it as “ohhh but saying taylor is gay is creepy so…” like fuck offfffffffff

yeahh i'm not really like hands on familiar with l/arrisms but That's What I've Heard and like. in general i feel like lesbian ~shipping~ communities are a bit rarer. it is a pretty fascinating if disturbing difference isn't it? so many fandoms i've been in revolved around gay shipping or at least gay interpretations and it's so strange to suddenly be in a fandom where it's seen as taboo? and obviously you can't compare Fiction To emo bands who make out on stage To ms taylor swift, i GUESS, but swifties are just so obsessively protective. i think a lot of us feel a sense of ownership over the taylor swift who is our best friend in our head, so the idea we were wrong, specifically the idea that she's gay when you yourself are a homophobe, puts people esp on edge lol. and also i can't fully attest to the levels of homophobia in other fandoms i've been in cause i don't actually tend to venture too far away from my dash and stuff, so i don't want to imply it doesn't happen in other fandoms. but i just get a bit agitated when tumblr people dunk on gaylors cause yeah we can be ridiculous and delusional sometimes but people get so much vitriol from INSIDE the fandom over nothing that it just feels like. fuck OFF it's literally none of your business you know?