#izuku critical

[bibibbon]

Someone, please save Izuku. FandomWire released an article about how Horikoshi enjoyed working on Bakugou more than Izuku. 🥲🥲🥲

The only way we can save izuku now is if the fanfic writers team up and give him justice (some are already doing so!!!!).

I tried to find the article and the best I have gotten is to this 👇

I haven't fully read it but from what I have read I have to agree. We see Izuku a lot in the manga but dam it's just like we see him. We don't get to actually see inside him or what he is thinking and all like we used to.

Izuku in the beginning Vs izuku in the end are two different characters and a lot of people have described Izuku in the beginning as Izuku and the character in the end as deku (the hollow shell of izuku).

Izuku in the beginning would shout and rebuttal if he heard what spinner called shoji (he literally got all twisted up when shinsou called ojiro a monkey) but in the end we get nothing.

Izuku in the beginning would shout and be able to have negative feelings about people like bakugo and enji but in the end he defends enjis actions Infront of touya and doesn't even get any intropsection towards bakugos horrible apology.

Izuku in the beginning would do anything he can to be useful and be a hero but Izuku in the end gives up and doesn't do anything until he is given the tools to do so 8 years later

Izuku in the beginning and end still worships heroes and hasn't developed a well rounded world view even with the sliver of foreshadowing that he would from the begining of "not all are created equal"

Izuku in the beginning cried and prayed to have a quirk but in the end when he loses his quirk he is simply indifferent and it's bakugo whose doing the crying instead.

Dam too many of my favourite characters are going through character assassinations first Izuku now five whose next ?!?!?!

[medusasea]

On Yoichi's Heroism Part 2

A while back I made a post about Yoichi's heroism and after reading some resposnes I started thinking more. I disagree with a lot of the criticism about my post and I decided that instead of addressing individual replies I will write about my opinions on certain counterarguments to my previous post. You can read part 1 here https://www.tumblr.com/medusasea/759701821204905984/on-yoichis-heroism?source=share.

One common criticism about my previous post is that Yoichi is not supposed to be physical strong, but one with a strong will, that his strong will saved certain characters and helped them move on. I must admit that I was not entirely fair on Yoichi with this, his will did do good for other characters, even if just at the moment, but this brings up other issues I will address. One of them is the general way the OFA users dealt with Tomura. The most apparent problem is Gearshift's plan to give Tomura quirks. I would write an entire rant about this, but The youtube channel did it way better than I could ever do it, so here's a link to their rant on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSWe1EWwObk. Mind you, that Yoichi himself fully agreed with this plan.There is also the whole saving Tomura by killing him plot. Granted, the world is safer now with Tomura dead and it was understandable of him to kill his master, but the narrative wants to present his death as his rescue. Yoichi himself might've not stated this, but he certainly played a role in Tomura's death, so he helped the narrative reach this conclusion, regardless if he himself believed it or not. Yes, Yoichi helped OFA users, but the general way they all approached Tomura and AFO was extremely flawed.

Now I will further elaborate on Yoichi's lack of physical strength. I never claimed he had to have physical strength to be a hero. There are all kinds of heroes. I understand the narrative portrays him as more psychologically strong than physically. I understand the narrative portrays him as an idealist that inspires others. My problem was his faulty philosophy and the lack of vital information he gives. Sure, AFO needed to be stopped and Yoichi was right to not join his brother, but his philosophy pretty much starts and ends with "Villains hurt people for selfish reasons and they will always lose at the end.". Keyword "pretty much", since I am aware that he felt sympathy for his brother and tried to redeem him, despite the latter being evil, and he did agree with Deku's determination to save Tomura. The problem is that the definitions of good and evil are highly subjective and it's almost never as simple as someone harming others for selfish reasons. There are various reasons why people have specific moral codes and regardless of what your moral ideals are, people who are villains according to your definitions will often get away scot free. While the narrative did show nuance, there was never any confirmation he learned that bad people do not always lose in the end. Considering that Yoichi witnessed both AFO and Tomura dying at the end it is even possible that his belief about villains always losing got reinforced instead of shattered.

Moving on to Yoichi not addressing discrimination and corruption. Some counterarguments claim that he never witnessed discrimination while he was alive and that it is not his duty to address this topic. First of all, while he lived people were discriminated for having quirks and he knew it. He might've not been discriminated against himself, but considering how empathetic he is, there is no reason for him to not want quirk discrimination to stop. Second of all, he certainly witnessed plenty of discrimination and corruption as a ghost. While there isn't much he could do about it, we never get a glimpse on his thoughts on it. We barely get Deku's thoughts about this for that matter. Deku tried becoming the greatest hero, but he never has a plan nor signs he even plans to make a plan about it. Sure, they can't focus on everything all the time, and with Deku you can at the very least argue that he already experienced discrimination himself, that All Might already helped him understand that you can't always save everyone, that AFO and Tomura were way more immediate threats for him and that he was just a child. While I still think Deku should've thought more about the system, I can at least understand why he wouldn't give it much of a thought at the time of dealing with AFO. I can't say the same thing about Yoichi, who as an adult he was convinced villains always lose. I can also understand him dealing exclusively with AFO and Tomura at the moment, much like Izuku, but what I cannot understand is him never worrying while he was alive about people with quirks being harmed by society, even if his brother wasn't around. There was admittedly not much Yoichi could've done about systemic issues, but I have to wonder how he still kept his belief that villains always lose at the end. Did he believe that every single bigot out of thousands will lose? Furthermore, even if he would've managed to bring his brother to the good side, was he ever going to address systematic issues? This was never confirmed. Also, given Yoichi's empathetic nature, you would expect him to try help Izuku recover as much as possible from his trauma, this includes the discrimination and corruption he saw. While he brings hope, it's mostly just: "Things can get better, don't give up.". While on paper this sounds nice, humans have an instinctual fear of the unknown. As long as you don't know how how a terrible situation could stop, you will still feel a lot of fear. Yoichi and the other OFA users never try to come up with concrete solutions for systematic problems. They never give Deku advice how he and other people could influence society for the better. Sure, they are there for Deku, but their own plans are often faulty. Sure, they compliment him and tell him to keep faith, but they never teach him how to rely on external forces. They never consider he might need someone to talk to about societal issues.

This is the part I want to address the most and it is Yoichi offering vague information. The first time he ever talked to Deku, he didn't even introduce himself, which is universally the first rule when meeting someone and it only takes a few seconds. Keep in mind that Yoichi wanted to befriend Deku and it wasn't urgent for Deku to know about Yoichi's and AFO's past. It's not like Yoichi had much to say anyway, he just gave vague examples of people making deals with AFO, mentioned his brother toying and disposing of people, Yoichi himself getting imprisoned and AFO's group killing another one due to their own initiative. Yoichi not mentioning their birht cirrsumstance is one thing, maybe he wanted Deku to only see AFO's villainy at the moment, maybe he didn't think Deku would believe it or some other reason. My question is, why didn't he mention his brother always killing people? It's more realistic than AFO and Yoichi surviving as babies. Why didn't he start off by showing child AFO killing people? Really, something like "A villain killed people since he was a child." would much more effectively help Deku understand how horrible AFO is, than just Yoichi's vague description. Yoichi went right into his backstory without even telling Deku his own name, yet he didn't mention his brother murdering people since childhood? I think Horikoshi didn't originally plan for AFO to be a murderer since childhood and that he largely retconned their original backstory.

I want to add a few more things to Yoichi passing down his quirk. I mentioned him having dumb luck. This point by itself isn't that much against him. One thing I didn't mention is that I do not think it was pragmatic for him to yell at his brother in front of his face. Sure, Yoichi was right that AFO should've stopped, but yelling and bashing rarely work and he should've expected his brother punishing him for it. As mentioned, his reaction was understandable and I am sure he had no way of knowing better, so while I am criticizing his action, I don't really hold it against him. That being said, him being able to transfer his quirk was still dumb luck. I don't hold it against him, dumb luck is a thing in real life too, but the narrative presents this as being a very heroic act from his side, when in reality he only did it at the spur of the moment while he was the one being saved. Maybe he tried consciously or subconsciously to help Kudo with that, but it doesn't seem like he knew how his quirk works at the moment. Furthermore, he only obtained his transfer quirk by dumb luck, so even if he was actively trying to help Kudo by transferring his quirk, it still was only possible due to dumb luck. Granted, he helped the users not get the OFA stolen by AFO, I'll give him that, but other than that his contributions leave much to be desired for the reasons mentioned above. Yoichi's greatest achievements are passing down OFA, which was only possible due to dumb luck, and not allowing AFO and Tomura to take OFA, until he agreed to let Tomura take it for a convoluted plan to redeem him.

Lastly, I will address the reasons for Yoichi's flaws. I understand he didn't get much of an education, I understand he lived during different times and I understand flawed characters aren't necessarily badly written. I don't want flawless characters, I hate Mary Sues and Marty Stus just as much as the average person (outside of parodies). My issue with Yoichi isn't that his philosophy is flawed, it's that his philosophy does more harm than good (it would in real life anyway) while simultaneously never showing signs of improvement or getting any criticism. One of the story themes might be generations passing down to the next one, but the new generation barely did any improvements if any at all.

[thaeonblade]

Okay MHA...I’m tired...

I know I’m going to get hate for this and I don’t care. But can My Hero Academia go five minutes without romanticizing a fucked abusive unhealthy, destructive or terrible relationship? Because right now, the heroes look like self-righteous dumbasses who should not be trusted nor have any good sense of reason, logic or frankly a consistent sense of morality, ethics and justice. And every time the story pulls out that “the villain is a child inside” crap or goes on about how life was unfair to the mass murderer, it makes the villain look more and more unintentionally unsympathetic. Can heroes like Izuku and Ochako be allowed to set boundaries and priorities to let horrible people hurt them without being considered bad heroes or bad people? Is it really bad for them to not let themselves get hurt just to validate some asshole’s feelings? Ochako doesn’t owe Toga shit. Toga isn’t entitled to shit. But the story is basically absolving Toga of all of the shit she’s done so that Ochako looks heroic for bleeding to death to reach out to this selfish murderous psycho bitch with a stalker complex. It doesn’t make Toga sympathic, it makes her look even more selfish. It doesn’t make Ochako a better character, it actually makes her kind of pathetic and hard to respect. I’m not sorry, I can’t respect people who disregard lives lost, families destroyed and can actually look a mass murderer in the eye and say that she has a lovely smile and admires how carefree she is while attacking her and her friends. This is Ochako’s big moment apparently. Enabling and coddling a fucking murderer because holding her accountable for her crimes and telling her that she mad bad choices and she’s responsible for them is “bad”. Society may have been unfair to Toga, but Society didn’t make Toga kill Saito (yes he’s dead per the databook) or any of the people she left to bleed to death, Himiko Toga choose that for herself. However, when I say Toga’s responsible for her choices I also state that she has the ability to make the right choice and do the right thing. Same goes for Shigaraki, but that requires taking personal ownership and responsibility for your actions. This is why the Toga and Ochako storyline sucks so much because it acts like Toga’s entitled to sympathy and patience and completely ignores all of the horrible and shitty things she’s done or been apart of. When Ochako says that she “can’t forget Toga’s actions”, this is empty protest and her actions and other words like “have my blood for the rest of my life” don’t add up. And no, Toga being bisexual does not excuse shit. She’s still a psycho murderer and deserves consequences. She sure as shit doesn’t deserve Ochako after nearly killing her and all of the harm she’s caused against her and her friends. I won’t change anyone’s mind here, but wanting TogaChako canon is basically saying you support a fucked up relationship between a selfish psychotic murderous borderline-sexual predator and the girl she’s trying to murder. If you want to support a Yuri ship, at least pick one that isn’t romanticizing or enabling abuse and romantizing suffering for an abusive or harmful partner like for example Momo x Kyoka. If Toga was a male, ya’ll would agree with me and you know it. I halfway wonder if some of you only ship TogaChako despite all of the objective red flags because you’re that desperate or thirsty for some kind of validation. Well sorry folks, you’re picking the wrong hill to stand on because canon-wise it sucks. Fanon wise, you can make it whatever you want, I mean it. I’ve read plenty of good fanfics where Toga got the help she needed before she went off the deep end and I enjoy reading about her relationship with other characters like Ochako and Izuku. But just like how Fanon Aizawa or in some cases “Dadzawa” is very different from the objectively asshole Canon Aizawa, Fanon Toga is a sweetheart compared to the psycho murderer Canon Toga is. I honestly wouldn’t care what you ship because it’s your business. I highly question your choice of ship, but feel free to ignore me and enjoy your warped fucked up ship as you please. With that said, I’m free to dislike said ship and use evidence from the story to point out how this is the worst possible cruelty you could inflict on Ochako. But please stop pretending like Canon Toga wouldn’t be a constant threat to anyone she was with. She fucking stabbed the first guy she had a crush on and he died (again databook) and even if he didn’t die, that’s still not someone who should be shipped with anyone. And after reading all of that, if you think I’m some kind of sexist, homophobic asshole because I don’t absolve or excuse murderers regardless of race, sex or sexual identity then we have nothing to discuss because I’m not wasting any breath on you. Fuck off. For the record, I already had this problem with the Bakugou and Izuku dynamic where Bakugou basically gets no consequences for his objectively bad actions and attitude. No justice for ten years of abusive bullying; No accountability for trying to kill Izuku during the training exercise; Izuku holds Bakugou on a pedestal he doesn’t deserve and basically does all of the suffering and giving for their messed up relationship; and the story doesn’t even do the bare minimum to make Bakugou’s “redemption arc” passable. The story ignored it for almost 300 chapters and then puts in a few grand gestures then acts like that’s all that’s needed and goes no further. I also have this issue with how Izuku is lionized for acting on blind idealism and emotionality to try and “save” Shigaraki despite the thousands he’s chosen to kill; the path of villainy that he’s chosen to take; and how he’s going to kill everyone if he’s not stopped. Society didn’t make Shigaraki become a villain; attack USJ; attempt to murder the Class 1-A students and teachers multiple times; send an attack against the Camp; try to make Bakugou join him or die; make an alliance with Overhaul whose torturing a child; or willingly take AFO’s quirk to be even more destructive and evil. That was Shigaraki’s choice. Tomura Shigaraki made that choice. Tenko Shimura made that choice. The little child within Shigaraki is irrelevant. It’s not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you. If Izuku and Ochako really respected Shigaraki and Toga, they’d respect their choices and stop holding back. Take off the kiddie gloves and defeat them however they have to. If the villains have to die so that no one else is killed at their hands? So be it. Nope, instead the story treats Shigaraki and Toga like children who can’t be held responsible for their actions because it’s all society’s fault. Which is insulting to them as characters, insulting to the many they’ve killed and Izuku and Ochako are also disrespecting their friends, teachers and comrades who’ve died or almost died including Midnight who was killed by one of Shigaraki’s men on Shigaraki’s command. What is heroic about disregarding the families destroyed? How will Ochako and Izuku explain themselves to the families of Shigaraki and Toga’s victims? Will they have any answer that doesn’t involve blind emotionality or idealism? I doubt it. What’s wrong with holding the villains accountable for their actions and giving them deserved consequences and acknowledging that society is flawed and wrong them? They are not mutually exclusive. You don’t have to scream at the audience about how you’re ignoring the problem if you don’t absolve these unsympathetic people because you know murder is wrong. And while we’re at it, if Horikoshi really wanted a story about Izuku and Bakugou repairing their relationship, then he needs to hold Bakugou accountable and responsible for his shit. Izuku needs to be allowed to love himself, knock Bakugou off of his “symbol of victory” pedestal, and learn that he doesn’t need to tolerate shit from Bakugou nor prove anything to him. Instead, Horikoshi’s portraying his characters as emotional pushovers and I’m sick of abusive horrible harmful people being treated like they’re entitled to sympathy, empathy or whatever. All because society wronged them and that apparently validates their chaotic emotions and how they’re lashing out and killing thousands of people. Yet, the story expects us to treat them like they’re the victims and they’re therefore entitled to infinite patience, forgiveness and empathy. They’re not. They’re entitled to a punch to the face. And I’m done here. Note: If you disagree with what I said then do so with respect. I don’t care if you agree with me, but harassment, threats and bullying will not be tolerated. Note: Just because I’m critical of MHA, doesn’t mean I’m any less of a fan. I just will not ignore its major problems as I’ve outlined. So if anyone wants to tell me that “I’ll have no peace in this fandom”, then just know that I don’t give a damn if you think I belong here or not. PS: Despite my harsh and blunt language, I really have nothing personally against TogaChako, BakuDeku shippers or whatever. I just hate these ships because of the unfortunate implications within them due to the canonical actions and attitudes of Bakugou and Toga. I strongly and fundamentally disagree with anyone who’d support or defend these ships and it honestly annoys how much some fans desperately force their interpretations over other fans, but otherwise you can like what you like. I just reserve the right to hate what I want to hate and sadly, your ship checks off all of the wrong boxes.

[nagitosstolenhand]

i don't like the growing opinion that people are being 'too hard' on deku for his failing to save shigaraki.

i've seen quite a few people complaining that a lot of the bnha-critical crowd are being too mean to deku for getting tomura killed, arguing that it isn't really his fault, and that hes a 16 year old child soldier who's been failed by almost every adult in his life, why should we be putting all of this on his shoulders? hes just a kid after all?

and the truth is, they're right. deku IS a 16 year old boy whos had the fate of the world thrust on his shoulders. but the story itself just plainly refuses to acknowledge this.

the narrative doesn't acknowledge how fucked up having a school that trains literal children how to be combo cop-celebrities is. it only tentatively acknowledges the fact that a universe having combo cop-celebrities is fucked up, and even then the only people who ever point this out are antagonists, who are portrayed and treated in-universe as untrustworthy. the narrative doesn't care how fucked up dekus circumstances are. the narrative treats deku like hes a fucking messiah here to touch the hearts of the evil depressed villains with his magical empathetic heart of gold before they get blown up or just sent to fucking superhell for daring to challenge the status quote.

deku isn't a person. he's barely even a fucking character at this point. he's a plot device, and a mouth piece for the objectively shitty themes bnha is trying to spout. the themes that tell you that if you're mistreated by society and want to do something about it, you're a villain. that disrupting the status quote and refusing to repent to some random teenage boy spouting empty platitudes at you means you deserve to get sent to fucking superhell. the themes that portray people fighting for civil change as mass murdering supervillains. the themes that look the audience dead in the eye and can call deku the greatest hero to ever live.

deku, who barely spared a second thought to lady nagant telling him the truth about the hero commission. who spouts meaningless platitudes about heroism and morality at nagant, and aoyama, and toga and shigaraki, when even the thought that he should question the world around him comes up. who's constantly talked about as this truly kind, empathetic person, but hasn't spared an empathetic thought to literally anyone who is classified as a villain. who listened to every authority figure around him except the ones who asked him to question his worldview. who saw la bravas tears, shigarakis various breakdowns, himikos plead for understanding, chisakis catatonic state, lady nagants truth, and barley batted a fucking eye. deku, who killed tomura shigaraki.

people don't criticize deku for failing shigaraki because they just hate deku. people criticize deku because of what he represents. because hes a mouthpiece for the atrocious morals and themes of this ideologically rotten manga. because any character he had was chopped up to bits in favor of the incomplete husk we have now. people criticize deku because hes the main character of my hero academia. theres nothing more damning then that.

[cryiling]

i see a lot of people headcanon that bakugo loves horror movies, meanwhile deku is a huge scaredycat/crybaby towards them. BUT actually i think it would be very funny if it was the other way around

SO. headcanoning that bakugo really fucking hates horror movies. NOT because he's. scared or anything what r u talking about. haha definitely not. but do not turn that shit on anywhere near him or he will fucking kill u

meanwhile deku USED to be afraid of horror movies. but then he decided that in order to get over his fear of them, he was gonna watch a bunch of behind the scenes for them to see how the movies were actually made and to be less scared when watching them. and then he became a HUGE horror movie nerd. he LOVES breaking down how the practical effects work and identifying them on screen when watching. jumpscares don't bother him anymore, he's too busy nerding out about the behind the scenes stuff and analyzing how all the different effects are working seamlessly together to make the horror movie effective

deku loves dragging bakugo to see new horror movies or forcing him to sit and watch them at home together, he's always really excited to analyze the effects and camerawork of the movies. bakugo only (barely) tolerates it because he just looks away during all the "scary" parts and concentrates on deku's mumbling to distract himself from the movie

deku: no kacchan it's actually so cool how they did this shot!! they only had one take so they had to position all the camera equipment perfectly and there's a whole bunch of hidden triggers and the visual perspective makes the intensity of the shot SO much more effective and blah blah blah-

bakugo, face buried in deku's shoulder and very much avoiding looking at the screen: turn this off immediately or i will explode ur face

[ilovereadingandstuff]

I'm sorry but THIS IS SO TRUE!!

Izuku, darling, you're my favorite and all media basically and i love you so much...but this is true.

[theweeklydiscourse]

God forbid you ever criticize the lack of consequences Bakugou experiences in MHA, or suddenly you’ll find dozens of Bakugou stans pouring into your mentions to make a speech about how cruel you are for forcing him to eat cement. They’ll act as though “consequences” inherently involves throwing him into the dungeon or putting him in detention for 100 years and then moan about how him facing consequences would only perpetuate a cycle of abuse/discrimination.

Listen, it’s not really that much of a consequence if the “consequence” in question isn’t directly connected to his current or past bad behaviour. “Oh but his scars!” “When he died that one time!” “His guilt for getting kidnapped” None of those are related to his bullying, and in my opinion, that makes them insufficient as consequences in an arc about changing for the better.

The consequences I would actually like to see could be as simple as: Izuku feels sad/mad because of what he went through, or certain characters reflect on how Bakugou’s past impacts their perception of him. More introspection on the victim’s end is needed, Bakugou doesn’t necessarily need to be pilloried for the arc to be satisfying.

[jp---v]

Weird how the class could barely ever see each other when Midoriya was just a teacher, but as soon as he gets this suit and can be a hero again, all twenty-one of them are all conveniently in the same place to answer a single call about a road being blocked by a landslide.

Just saying... eight years.

[tardigradetheking]

I'm struggling to even articulate how bad the Iron Izuku armor is conceptually. It is everything wrong with One for All and the story as a whole. It exemplifies the failures of My Hero Academia.

The story is supposed to be about Izuku becoming the greatest hero. There are two ways a story like this could deliver. He could either become the strongest or fundementally redefine what it means to be a hero. My hero academia does neither.

When Izuku was given One for All fundementally has to becomes the strongest. That's how the world works. The last guy with it could at a sixtieth of his prime missing a lung and over extended can punch storms into existence. Yet even when Izuku is opperating at what should be well above a sixtieth of All-Mights strength. Izuku never becomes stronger then All-Might. Izuku can never be stronger then All-Might because the quirk gets destroyed.

If Izuku cannot be the strongest then in order for the story to deliver he has to become meaningful. He has to redefine the meaning of a hero. Izuku doesn't do that either. He spends the entire story wilfully disregarding the blatant problems with his society. Izuku is written as someone who is more distressed about lady nagant going rogue by killer he boss then the fact that her boss repeatedly ordered her to carry out illegal assassinations. Izuku is a bootlicker and bootlickers don't like meaningful change.

Iron Izuku becomes a sad consolation prize giving nothing of value. Izuku cannot become meaningful because after the entire story his character is the same. He is still someone who wants to be a hero yet does nothing to become a hero. Even now he is given Iron Izuku. He did not design it, he did not build it, he didnt come up with the idea for it and he didnt even facilitate its builders meeting. Not only can't Izuku become meaningful he also can't become powerful because a small suit of armor simply cannot match up to the power of One for All. Iron Izuku could have worked as a representation of the lives he changed for the better and the bonds he made. It could have but it doesnt. All his friends and classmates canonically barely saw or talked to him for almost a decade because he isn't important to them. Maybe Iron Izuku could have worked as an ending but not for this story. In this story Iron Izuku is a pitty laugh and limp twisted applause as the moth eaten curtains close, used as nothing more then an aknowledgement that a story occured and now it is over.

[sapphic-agent]

Waiting for the day Bakugou stans/BakuDeku shippers realize that Izuku not holding a grudge against Bakugou is an extension of Bakugou's abuse, not an absolution of it

[bibibbon]

I see that you're anti Bakugou blog, can I ask something because I'm really curious? Don't worry it's not hate ask (even if I'm Bakudeku shipper).

What I want to ask is the same in this post :

"I get preferring other ships, but if you hate them (BKDK), cannot stand them... you don't love the story. How could you? The narrative is built around their relationship. How they feel about each other at any given time is how you can tell the story is progressing. In both cases, they want to compete and surpass each other, which motivates them to train harder, to be better.

This is also why I don't get people who say they love one character but hate the other. Like, you cannot love Midoriya while hating Bakugou and vice versa.

They don't need to be your favorite characters, but you have to recognize their importance to your fav and their character arc. That is simply logical, in my opinion."

Thoughts, please?

First of all thank you for the question and not sending any hate comments that's very appreciated by me!

This is an interesting perspective and interpretation of the series, even if I don't see eye to eye with you or agree with this interpretation thank you for sharing it.

To begin this of I want to say that I don't particularly agree with the statement that you provided above. While the story in itself does revolve around izuku and bakugo to an extent its not exactly that big and I would argue that it shouldn't be that big of an involvement overall.

Izuku and bakugo's rivalry or the extended version which is the Canon one harms both the characters and the plot. This is because of how their rivalry naturally is which is toxic. @sapphic-agent goes into depth about how the wonder duo fails and of the toxicity of their supposed rivalry.

From the beginning izuku and bakugo's relationship was unhealthy whether that be from izukus non stop admiration even when bakugo abused him or bakugo who thought that izuku was a nuisance in his path. I think the best route for bakugos character was for him to ditch the rivalry route towards anyone. Bakugo as a character needed to accept that there are various people who will be weaker or stronger or different than him. He also needed to accept that society proping him up as this next big hero and ultimately feeding his ego was also wrong.

In the end I still have a lot of issues with bakugo's character individually that I did talk about previously and I think that overall he should of had an arc of breaking down his harmful thoughts, beliefs and behaviours. His arc needed more focus on his character and how he treats other people not just izuku.

I also want to argue that bakugo's arc isn't that well written at all. He doesn't really change and the change we do see from his underwhelming due to a number of reasons whether that be his horrible apology or his behaviour not really changing and being played off as a gag or the way we see bakugo still uphold his old behaviour heck it's all around his arc him being the only character to follow the idea of not saving someone or him just being hyperfixated on a rivalry that doesn't have equal footing.

I think the bakugo vs izuku fight part 2 showed a lot of bakugo and izukus problems within their relationship really well. I also think that was the arc where bakugo should of been separated from izuku having people acknowledge the toxicity of their relationship as bakugo thinks izuiu owes him an explanation when he doesn't or how izuku is supposed to overcome his admiration for bakugo and realise that what bakugo did to him was wrong. @delawaredetroit made a lot of analysis based on that fight which I think is worth checking out because they point out good bakugo critiques that horikoshi doesn't address and simply let's slide for bakugo while painting his and izukus relationship as perfectly fine and a healthy rivalry that moves the story.

In the end for bakugo he becomes a character attached to izuku ultimately having no real relevance outside of izuku and that sucks for him as he isn't even able to grow an we aren't able to see that change with the way he Interacts with the world.

Now moving onto izuku's character. Izuku due to horikoshis writing decisions also suffered a lot due this supposes rivalry. Izuku doesn't ever acknowledge the abuse that bakugo committed ultimately since he doesn't ever get to either introspect or freely express emotions about this issue his whole character starts to lack introspection and hinders him from forming valuable character relationships that can help push the narrative forward as he comes to understand heroes, civillians and villains alike. Izuku also never gets a say in the relationship he ultimately becomes more passive and a shell of his former self as the series goes on to the point that we don't see him react to losing his quirk (no the moment is focused on bakugo crying instead) and we don't see izukus response to the apology that bakugo offered.

It seems that throughout their relationship izuku who once had potential and so much going for him went through one of the worst cases of character regressions and assassinations that I have ever seen . At least before the rivalry started we saw izuku express fear, awe,anger and so many more emotions towards bakugo but now he is an empty shell a clean slate that cannot feel any negative emotions towards him at all.

Going back to my original point the narrative isn't fully built around their relationship and while they do have major themes such as win to save and save to win, their relationship in itself doesn't bring much to the narrative it actually just harms their characters and makes them lack depth even more.

Izuku already has a character who is supposed to be his rival, whose supposed to challenge his views, whose supposed to understand him and be understood by him and that character is shigaraki yet horikoshi doesn't build up on their relationship and only throws parallels around when it comes to those two making the final war arc a dissatisfactionary and disappointing rollercoster filled with mountains of wasted potential.

From the beginning the story to me had a clear path that bakugo wasn't supposed to be a primary character in the series he was supposed to be something that izuku overcame, he was supposed to be a challenge that showed the damage that society caused but that wasn't the case and the direction that hori took the story ended up harming every aspect of the story whether that be the unexplored plot point of quirkless discirmation (which many speculate is unexplored to make bakugo not look bad) or the final fight between shigaraki and izuku that lacked any build up whatsoever (toga and ochako had a better one because they had time to develop)

So to sum it up while the two characters relationship is present within the series its not a well written one at all and it isn't a primary relationship that develops both izuku and bakugo but more of a relationship that develops bakugos character and hinders izukus character.

[doodlegirl1998]

You know what's really funny to me? The trope of Bakugou in canon being super talented at everything that he does. In canon it's supposed to be for laughs when he's good at random shit, but I don't understand how it's supposed to be funny when the funnier route would have been that this guy has dedicated himself to nothing else but being extremely good at fighting with his quirk and to be a hero that he's actually super ass at everything else. But I guess having a complex version of Bakugou where he learns that there's more to life than heroics and maybe is way less of a demon isn't something that would have been interesting. ALSO ALSO, genuinely I'm confused as to why people think Bakugou is super smart. Like I get that he was excelling at school and was taking mock UA tests and shit, blah blah blah, but:

A) I can totally see his marks getting doctered by Aldera

B) Passing the UA exam doesn't tell me shit about his intelligence, since people who are "dumber" (Kaminari and Ashido) than him also passed the same exam. Without even knowing the proper format of the test (keeping in mind it's also a standardized test) there's no real way to gauge how "intelligent" someone has to be to do well. Also there's a bunch of General-Ed students who passed that test so again, doesn't tell me much.

C) For all the praise that he receives, there's nothing really like "intelligent" or complex about the plans that Bakugou comes up with when people suck him off for being such a good tactician. He fully somehow thought he could overwhelm fucking ALL-MIGHT with his explosions alone, if he's such a good tactician why would he all of a sudden fuck this up? Also, his "counter" to Uraraka's plan was just do bigger explosions, so again, nothing to do with his actual intellect, it's just his quirk. Which brings me to,

D) Bakugou fully should have been taken out by Uraraka's plan. I get that she was tanking hits and he wasn't, but he suffers no backlash at all from unleashing his quirk all day, and is even able to fire off massive explosions no problem. I don't care what bullshit excuse Horikoshi or the fandom comes up with, unless Bakugou has a second quirk that makes him indestructible or lets him cancel out forces, those massive explosions would have shattered his arms and legs from the recoil. But nooooooo, Todoroki suffers from acute frosbite and Midoriya shatters himself when he uses OfA. But Bakugou? Ah well, sometimes we'll remember that he's running out of sweat or his wrists will hurt a little or sumthin.

E) Why is Bakugou (and I guess Kirishima by extension as well) more ripped and buff then Midoriya when canonically somehow managed to balance a fucking small pick up truck on the last pile of garbage that he stood on when he cleared the beach. Midoriya should be jacked and stacked like Jotaro fucking Kujo in part 3 and be an immovable object, yet some how Bakugou is shown to be physically stronger than him??? Midoriya should be casually lifting couches with the entire class sitting on it so he can vaccum underneath.

PS. I think it would've been exponentially better to have IZUKU be the one who is good and talented at random shit. Like the kid who didn't have the one thing that is required of all heroes (a quirk) and tries to overcompensate for his "uselessness" by being insanely talented and skilled at tons of different hobbies would have been an awesome angle, he's genius enough to pull it off. Not only would it give us more insight on his life before All Might, but it would also make Bakugou less of a Mary Sue (seriously, the narrative bends over backwards for him) and Izuku less of an untalented loser (again, the narrative loves shitting on him, sweet Jesus). Having Bakugou be terrible at everything besides heroics and Izuku being good at everything "besides heroics" might've made for an interesting character parallel that Hori insists on shoving down our throats for 400 chapters straight 😒

Hi @stormiclown 👋

💯. I completely agree with this.

Bakugou being ass at everything that doesn't involve his quirk would have been much funnier, and it would have made more sense narratively for the reasons you listed.

In a good story, that fact would have also forced Bakugou to grow and realise that in UA, he's no longer a big fish in a small pond - he's just one of many talented children.

As you rightfully pointed out, it would have made much more narrative sense for IZUKU to be the ripped one, to be the talented and intelligent one. He would have felt like he would have had to prove he wasn't useless growing up, so it would have made more sense for Izuku to have dozens of hidden (and developed - where did Izuku's quirk analysis go?!) talents.

Then, for Izuku to feel jarred by the amount of praise and appreciation he is getting now, he isn't "useless quirkless Deku" that he felt like he was at Aldera. Then for Izuku to flourish and grow as a result.

[nutzgunray-lvt]

I knew I wasn't going to like the ending, but I wasn't expecting it to be so underwhelming and just ugh.

- Izuku and 1A fell out of contact once they graduated... but the "Deku Squad" goes and makes their own hero team while Izuku's over here talking about how LONELY it is that he's not a hero while everyone else around him is. Then when he gets to be Iron Izuku, they get back in touch. Yeah, found family my ass.

- The hero ranking system hasn't changed at all, despite it causing so many problems in the story. In fact, it's even WORSE now that heroics is solely concentrated on those with strong Quirks due to the low crime rate. Again, anyone can be a hero, but only if they have not just A Quirk, but a strong one at that. Eventually, another AFO or Shigaraki will rise up, and they're back to square one.

- Bakugou dropping in the ranks due to his aggression and attitude is both surprising and welcomed. I'd been dreading him being #1, but again, it shows that he's received NO character development in 8 fucking years. He'd be in his twenties at that point. Grow the fuck up.

- I guess Aizawa's "apology" to Izuku amounted to absolutely nothing, and Midnight might as well have never been Mic and Aizawa's friend, given how they don't acknowledge her death.

This series had so much potential and a lot of things that I liked about it, but I'm glad it's been put out of its misery. I just wish it could have been told by a better author.

[yonkokraven]

Horikoshi is a terrible writer

God, I wish I was kidding, these last couple of days I've been analyzing the whole damn manga and I finally understood where this guy is going with it and how it fails.

I'm going to make the post with spoilers and talk in random order about different things that he fail at, because honestly it's unthinkable to make an order in this manga chaos.

The League Without Goals:

I really can't understand how people look at this group and say "they have a plan" or "they're good antagonists" when neither of those things are true.

The league was founded by Tomura wanting to show the world that they live in a false peace, at first he wants to kill All Might for being the symbol that brought this false era of peace...

The claim is fair, I'm not going to lie to you, but after the Stain arc, instead of reflecting on how he can show the danger to society, he goes a step further and decides to destroy all the heroes, and the league "adopts" Stain's mentality with its new members.

You think it could improve, I mean, here they should tell us the reasons of the new members of the league about their mentality towards the heroes, but no, nothing, absolutely nothing.

Dabi introduces himself stating that he's there for Stain, Toga too, Spinner obviously too, but they don't reveal why they agree with Stain.

As time goes by we see glimpses of everyone's personality and past, and the first thing that comes to mind when I think back to the entire history of the villains, is that they don't have a group spirit here, in fact, not even a hint of personalities, Dabi and Toga are serial killers, Spinner is a mutant and Compress is a thief. Twice is a disturbed guy who lost his place in society by no longer being able to control his quirk, but he also has no qualms about kidnapping and killing children and god, Magne, Mudstard, Muscular and Moonfish are forgettable

The league's goal changes from "Show society the false peace" to "Let's do whatever we want" after the liberation army arc, here there is no direct reason, but Tenko says that he wants to destroy everything that breathes.

They show us their pasts but there is not really a more appropriate answer to "these people are crazy"

Spinner, who is the one with his head on his shoulders, should question why but he doesn't, He don't tell us what he wants to do other than "follow Shigaraki", and then in the final war they put him almost into a Nomu and leading an army of mutants without any plan of what to do when the world is his, there are no community plans, nothing, just find Kurogiri and destroy Japan.

Toga was deprived her entire life of living the way she wanted and she wants to do that, but when Twice dies she wonders if the heroes don't see her as a person when she can't even wonder why the heroes would see her that way, she kills people and animals without any shame and is plotting to destroy the world.

Dabi wants dad's attention, that's why he's going to destroy everything dad built including his mother and siblings, but he could go one by one, first Natsuo, then Fuyumi, then Rei, then the "Masterpiece" Shoto, or better yet, broadcast the video of Endeavor after the battle against High-End Hood, but instead he waits for the damn climax of the story to try to detonate himself. Not only could he have saved Twice and didn't, but he also has reasons to follow Stain but still sticks to "let's kill whoever gets in our way"... and that's it.

Tomura already came to this story in an extremist way and has reasons to hate society, at the beginning of the story I thought his motivation was going to be to reveal the imperfections of civilians and heroes, but his motivations grow to commit acts of terrorism to ACADEMY STUDENTS. And they are not even varied, it is the same academy and the same damn class

And when I thought that Horikoshi could not make it any emptier, AFO reveals that he always planned to take his body and orchestrated everything that happened to Tenko. AND THE WORST THING IS THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN REFLECT AFTER THAT, IF IT WERE UP TO HIM HE WOULD DESTROY EVERYTHING ANYWAY.

How do Hori expect me to feel bad about their defeats and deaths? They literally grew up in the opposite way to how they should have, and that's when I realized: Hori didn't want to give this group of clowns any redemption at any point.

Before you ask me "then why did Horikoshi make Midoriya, Uraraka and Shoto want to save them?"

No, here Horikoshi is writing 2 things, but he writes them so badly that the fandom interprets something totally different:

1-A hero is a human being, and villains born in their mistakes: The members of the league, if we look at their origins first, arise from the fault of people (not just heroes

Toga must be one of many who has their biology affected by their quirk, at no time do we have reference to the fact that there are specialized centers to help this type of people, because if that were the case, her parents would have accompanied their daughter in that way instead of repressing her.

Spinner is a mutant, so he hasn't grown up in a conventional way (as we're told, he was always alone). But that's the incomplete picture, being a mutant and following Stain's ideology, you add 2+2 and notice that Spinner suffered mistreatment even from heroes, but it's something he doesn't mention, and Horikoshi didn't delve into either his history or the mutant plot.

Dabi is the son of an arranged marriage (know how to differentiate it from a forced marriage) and that's already a lot to say, but his origin resonates with Stain's words about heroes only seeking fame and power. If the top heroes didn't exist or worked differently, things in the Todoroki family would have been different.

Tomura is the mark of an imperfect society, as his problems are not only his own, they come from generations ago. His grandmother left his father for adoption after his grandfather's death, and there is already a big red flag about the safety between heroes.

Then, his father grows up hating heroes because he never knew about the danger that his mother and he were in. And he hits his son every time he says the word "hero" just because he never knew how to properly deal with his father's death or his mother's abandonment.

And after what happened to his family, people look the other way hoping that a hero might appear, when that is not the job of a hero, it is something that everyone can do. Tomura marks the total and combined result of a society that has made heroes into nothing more than a service instead of people, while people simply go on with their lives.

Society in general after the dawn of power remains the same: discrimination, power and ignorance continue to be the daily life of people.

The biggest problem? is that Horikoshi shows us the league at first wanting to point out these injustices, but little by little they get to "let's destroy everything because Tomura is upset."

2- The origin of true heroes

The arcs that resonate the most with the soul of the manga are Uraraka and Hawks' arcs, two of which in my opinion are the best in the work

Uraraka enters the academy with the wrong intentions, but her heart is in the right place, she wants to help people and little by little she realizes something that many people ignore, that heroes and villains are also people.

Hawks is trained directly in the commission as a human weapon, but he does not fight against this because his desire is to be a hero, as he grows up between so much training and work, he realizes that despite being a hero, he is not allowed to be a person, and this is reflected in all the other heroes thanks to his phrase "I just want a world where heroes have free time"

Uraraka is the one who initiates the change to society by asking the civilians to let Midoriya rest in the academy, the civilians are scared but notice for the first time that the heroes are not in good shape either.

And they are not even heroes yet, they are children who still have the spirit to stand in front of the bullets when they should be crying for what happened, they lost teachers and classmates, in addition to being mutilated by people older than them.

In these epilogue chapters, civilians and heroes began to work shoulder to shoulder after this event and the battle in which Midoriya gave his all to prevent everything known from disappearing, and he succeeded by very little.

In chapter 429 we see a child who escaped from hell, and for the first time a civilian helps someone without having to request support from a hero, and it is the same woman who did not help Tenko years ago who still carries the guilt.

But what is the problem with this point?

Two small details, one being that Horikoshi isn't giving dialogue to those who started this change, and if he did, he did it incorrectly.

Uraraka feels bad for not being able to save someone who didn't want to be saved, when she doesn't reflect on how Toga got to that point of no return, or what made the heroes get to where they are now

Midoriya calms her down by telling her that she's his heroine (which isn't bad at all) but it's a very short dialogue for two characters who saw through all the flaws of this system and fight to change that same system for the better.

and Hawks is in a position to restructure the hero system for the better based on the things he knows, taking a correct step in creating a Top that is defined by the actions in the place of power... BUT YOU DIDN'T ELIMINATE THE OLD TOP? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

And now I know why he doesn't do it, because of someone who has taken up more than enough pages in this work, the damn Katsuki Bakugo, another damn symbol of the old society that glorifies power over heroic actions.

Horikoshi himself didn't know what to do with the character beyond the first tests arc and HE SHOWS IT, because it is so contradictory with this character and everything that surrounds him in a disgusting way and the fandom doesn't want to accept it.

He literally doesn't get any attention when he does wrong, when he attacked Kurogiri with Kirishima, when he acts arrogant at the sports festival, when he hits Midoriya at the final exams and verbally abuses him in front of everyone, when at the camp he ignores Mandalay's instructions.

There is only one consequence for him in the manga, ONE, AND THAT IS THAT HE FAILS AN EXAM AND THAT'S IT.

Then he has a nervous breakdown saying "it's my fault that All Might retired" when he doesn't reflect on the danger he put his teammates in or the way he acts.

Here everyone is useless when it comes to Bakugo; Aizawa lets him go with a pat on the arm when he tries to attack Midoriya, 13 should have reported Bakugo and Kirishima to the principal after Kurogiri, Aizawa justifies Bakugo's behavior to heroes who are obviously outraged by his attitude during the festival, All Might ignores that his disciple bled from a punch from Bakugo and also that Bakugo almost killed him in the team tests.

When he is kidnapped, no one points out that he disobeyed a direct instruction in an emergency like the camp, instead Aizawa grabs a microphone and says "He's a great hero."

And in the provisional license exams, the Commission should have intervened and called him to attention, or at least Aizawa, but NOTHING.

Horikoshi makes him absent for a couple of arcs and then Bakugo reappears at the cultural festival where he doesn't change a cent, he just plays the drums, then he passes the provisional exams making the minimum effort possible while Todoroki, Utsushimi and Yoarashi do all the work with the children, and he tells the leader of the children "don't be an idiot" and that's it.

Then the Endeavor arc, he sneaks into Midoriya and Todoroki's internships and disrespects half the world, again without consequences and his appearance in this arc is to justify the disaster of power increase in the next arcs, wasn't it that he had already mastered his quirk? wasn't he a prodigal?

Then there's the war and he only serves as a human shield, receiving a lethal wound and SURVIVING to then wake up in the hospital and ignore that everyone is injured or in mourning and start screaming.

Then in the Dark Deku arc he mocks Izuku who is at his lowest point and makes the emptiest apologies I've read in a manga, with an apology comes a change and HE doesn't change.

His death and resurrection is totally useless to the plot other than to nerf (not kill) Edgeshot, who turns from a paper man into a surgery man to repair his heart and vital organs that are shown to have EXPLODED BY SHIGARAKI'S PUNCH.

He gets up and fights All For One at his weakest point and eliminates him, which has no real value because AFO then possesses Shigaraki anyway. And to make this more regrettable Bakugo KILLS KUROGIRI WHO WAS ON HIS SIDE.

What makes me the most angry is that Izuku is losing OFA and HE IS THE ONE CRYING

At this last point Midoriya has already completely lost the spotlight because Horikoshi never tires of inflating the Gary Stu that is Bakugo. And God forbid Midoriya to do even a little of what Bakugo did.

Midoriya at the end of each arc has no recognition, in fact, the recognition that Horikoshi gives him is reduced as the arcs go by

The story started with Midoriya saying that this would be like him "he became the greatest hero" and in the last arc he changes it to "we all became the greatest heroes" and it doesn't feel like a true victory once they achieve it, because Midoriya is not even the shadow of what he was.

With Horikoshi's decision to preserve the previous Top of Heroes it is obvious that he will give it to Bakugo, it is a worthless title because it is not defined by heroism, but by statistics that come from power and solved cases.

and this last one ruins Endeavor's ending even more

Speaking of Endeavor, he doesn't have his family anymore, he already lost his position, he's disabled and his money won't be his anymore, since he's going to put it at the disposal of his children. I was wondering if Horikoshi would make him face something legally but with everything that's happened I think it would have been the same result, with him paying monthly damages to his family.

and his family, god, what a family.

Rei needed more introspection and perspective on the situation, especially with Shoto and Touya if she was going to be included in the final battle. And yes, she stays with Endeavor, good for some and bad for others, but I want to know what led her to that, Horikoshi didn't justify it.

Fuyumi was fired not because of Endeavor's abuse, but because of the things Touya did. Again, this information is useless without a proper explanation. What information do you want to leave me with, that she got a new job? Will she work at the UA library or what?

Natsuo will be a Kotaro 2.0 because of his attitude, and honestly I never really liked him, especially because he didn't put any energy into getting to know Shoto or trying to reconcile with Touya after the final battle.

Shoto... poor Shoto, it feels like he was orphaned after the last family talk. In fact it feels disconnected from the story since the Dark Deku arc.

Well, I only have to talk about Eraser, because I already pointed out everything, empty villains, Midoriya's lack of introspection, Bakugo Katsuki's superfluous character... and there's this incapable who must be Horikoshi's self-insert.

Shouta Aizawa, aka Eraserhead, underground hero and the worst teacher in the known universe.

This guy never knew what he did, and just like Horikoshi, he tipped the scales towards Bakugo in every situation he could. He forced his students to give their all, but he didn't help at any time in the evolution of their powers... WHILE HE WAS TRAINING SHINSO.

He's not a teacher, he's just a security measure in case a quirk gets out of control, nothing more, and he even does wrong, he ties up students with his capture weapon and attacks them with his quirk threatening expulsion in any situation that bothers him

Present Mic points this out and many other things but is continually silenced by Aizawa and the fandom, even worse

The Fandom ships them.

and since we're mentioning the fandom, this is one of the worst fandoms in the universe.

90% of them seem to have gotten the story wrong and don't have a cent of criticism towards Bakugo or the league, and don't value the moments of the manga in the proper way.

There can't be a second without them believing that this is Shoujo, because they focus on Bakugo and Deku in the same panel and take it completely out of context (a bad habit that Rukasu created by translating the leaks absolutely wrong on purpose).

Now everyone is angry with Horikoshi not because he wrote a story in the most absurd way possible, but because the league of assassins did not have a happy ending and they just discovered that this was never a shojo.

Horikoshi was right to fear that the manga would be cancelled, because he clearly excels at drawing, not writing. Now we're getting a fan-made Attack of Titan Requiem 2.0 of Bakugo and the league making this twenty times worse than it already was.

I've also noticed that there are some creative people who are writing arc by arc either on tumblr or ao3, which gives me some faith that this nightmare is bearable.

Well, I read opinions, but not from fans of Bakugo, BKDK or the League of Villains.

[denkisauce]

(bnha manga ending spoilers)

what was the point

what was the point

what was the point

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT

WHAT WAS THE POINT 😭😭

what was the pointtttt

[v0id-clawz]

I don't think the mha fandom understands how truly mortifying the sludge guy scene with Izuku is tbh

Like. Izuku was 14. FOURTEEN, and nearly died ALONE

Sure, the scene with Bakugo was horrible for him, but there were a LOT of people there, he would've been on the news, he would've died a hero

Izuku didn't have that. He was alone, no one was there for him. Also, no one beside his mother really cared for him, given how he's treated in the episode, probably no one would've cared when he disappeared

Also, he might’ve not been on the news at all! The show has said that there's discrimination against those with different Quirks, so it might not have been just the class being jerks to Izuku