#anti lov

[yonkokraven]

Horikoshi is a terrible writer

God, I wish I was kidding, these last couple of days I've been analyzing the whole damn manga and I finally understood where this guy is going with it and how it fails.

I'm going to make the post with spoilers and talk in random order about different things that he fail at, because honestly it's unthinkable to make an order in this manga chaos.

The League Without Goals:

I really can't understand how people look at this group and say "they have a plan" or "they're good antagonists" when neither of those things are true.

The league was founded by Tomura wanting to show the world that they live in a false peace, at first he wants to kill All Might for being the symbol that brought this false era of peace...

The claim is fair, I'm not going to lie to you, but after the Stain arc, instead of reflecting on how he can show the danger to society, he goes a step further and decides to destroy all the heroes, and the league "adopts" Stain's mentality with its new members.

You think it could improve, I mean, here they should tell us the reasons of the new members of the league about their mentality towards the heroes, but no, nothing, absolutely nothing.

Dabi introduces himself stating that he's there for Stain, Toga too, Spinner obviously too, but they don't reveal why they agree with Stain.

As time goes by we see glimpses of everyone's personality and past, and the first thing that comes to mind when I think back to the entire history of the villains, is that they don't have a group spirit here, in fact, not even a hint of personalities, Dabi and Toga are serial killers, Spinner is a mutant and Compress is a thief. Twice is a disturbed guy who lost his place in society by no longer being able to control his quirk, but he also has no qualms about kidnapping and killing children and god, Magne, Mudstard, Muscular and Moonfish are forgettable

The league's goal changes from "Show society the false peace" to "Let's do whatever we want" after the liberation army arc, here there is no direct reason, but Tenko says that he wants to destroy everything that breathes.

They show us their pasts but there is not really a more appropriate answer to "these people are crazy"

Spinner, who is the one with his head on his shoulders, should question why but he doesn't, He don't tell us what he wants to do other than "follow Shigaraki", and then in the final war they put him almost into a Nomu and leading an army of mutants without any plan of what to do when the world is his, there are no community plans, nothing, just find Kurogiri and destroy Japan.

Toga was deprived her entire life of living the way she wanted and she wants to do that, but when Twice dies she wonders if the heroes don't see her as a person when she can't even wonder why the heroes would see her that way, she kills people and animals without any shame and is plotting to destroy the world.

Dabi wants dad's attention, that's why he's going to destroy everything dad built including his mother and siblings, but he could go one by one, first Natsuo, then Fuyumi, then Rei, then the "Masterpiece" Shoto, or better yet, broadcast the video of Endeavor after the battle against High-End Hood, but instead he waits for the damn climax of the story to try to detonate himself. Not only could he have saved Twice and didn't, but he also has reasons to follow Stain but still sticks to "let's kill whoever gets in our way"... and that's it.

Tomura already came to this story in an extremist way and has reasons to hate society, at the beginning of the story I thought his motivation was going to be to reveal the imperfections of civilians and heroes, but his motivations grow to commit acts of terrorism to ACADEMY STUDENTS. And they are not even varied, it is the same academy and the same damn class

And when I thought that Horikoshi could not make it any emptier, AFO reveals that he always planned to take his body and orchestrated everything that happened to Tenko. AND THE WORST THING IS THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN REFLECT AFTER THAT, IF IT WERE UP TO HIM HE WOULD DESTROY EVERYTHING ANYWAY.

How do Hori expect me to feel bad about their defeats and deaths? They literally grew up in the opposite way to how they should have, and that's when I realized: Hori didn't want to give this group of clowns any redemption at any point.

Before you ask me "then why did Horikoshi make Midoriya, Uraraka and Shoto want to save them?"

No, here Horikoshi is writing 2 things, but he writes them so badly that the fandom interprets something totally different:

1-A hero is a human being, and villains born in their mistakes: The members of the league, if we look at their origins first, arise from the fault of people (not just heroes

Toga must be one of many who has their biology affected by their quirk, at no time do we have reference to the fact that there are specialized centers to help this type of people, because if that were the case, her parents would have accompanied their daughter in that way instead of repressing her.

Spinner is a mutant, so he hasn't grown up in a conventional way (as we're told, he was always alone). But that's the incomplete picture, being a mutant and following Stain's ideology, you add 2+2 and notice that Spinner suffered mistreatment even from heroes, but it's something he doesn't mention, and Horikoshi didn't delve into either his history or the mutant plot.

Dabi is the son of an arranged marriage (know how to differentiate it from a forced marriage) and that's already a lot to say, but his origin resonates with Stain's words about heroes only seeking fame and power. If the top heroes didn't exist or worked differently, things in the Todoroki family would have been different.

Tomura is the mark of an imperfect society, as his problems are not only his own, they come from generations ago. His grandmother left his father for adoption after his grandfather's death, and there is already a big red flag about the safety between heroes.

Then, his father grows up hating heroes because he never knew about the danger that his mother and he were in. And he hits his son every time he says the word "hero" just because he never knew how to properly deal with his father's death or his mother's abandonment.

And after what happened to his family, people look the other way hoping that a hero might appear, when that is not the job of a hero, it is something that everyone can do. Tomura marks the total and combined result of a society that has made heroes into nothing more than a service instead of people, while people simply go on with their lives.

Society in general after the dawn of power remains the same: discrimination, power and ignorance continue to be the daily life of people.

The biggest problem? is that Horikoshi shows us the league at first wanting to point out these injustices, but little by little they get to "let's destroy everything because Tomura is upset."

2- The origin of true heroes

The arcs that resonate the most with the soul of the manga are Uraraka and Hawks' arcs, two of which in my opinion are the best in the work

Uraraka enters the academy with the wrong intentions, but her heart is in the right place, she wants to help people and little by little she realizes something that many people ignore, that heroes and villains are also people.

Hawks is trained directly in the commission as a human weapon, but he does not fight against this because his desire is to be a hero, as he grows up between so much training and work, he realizes that despite being a hero, he is not allowed to be a person, and this is reflected in all the other heroes thanks to his phrase "I just want a world where heroes have free time"

Uraraka is the one who initiates the change to society by asking the civilians to let Midoriya rest in the academy, the civilians are scared but notice for the first time that the heroes are not in good shape either.

And they are not even heroes yet, they are children who still have the spirit to stand in front of the bullets when they should be crying for what happened, they lost teachers and classmates, in addition to being mutilated by people older than them.

In these epilogue chapters, civilians and heroes began to work shoulder to shoulder after this event and the battle in which Midoriya gave his all to prevent everything known from disappearing, and he succeeded by very little.

In chapter 429 we see a child who escaped from hell, and for the first time a civilian helps someone without having to request support from a hero, and it is the same woman who did not help Tenko years ago who still carries the guilt.

But what is the problem with this point?

Two small details, one being that Horikoshi isn't giving dialogue to those who started this change, and if he did, he did it incorrectly.

Uraraka feels bad for not being able to save someone who didn't want to be saved, when she doesn't reflect on how Toga got to that point of no return, or what made the heroes get to where they are now

Midoriya calms her down by telling her that she's his heroine (which isn't bad at all) but it's a very short dialogue for two characters who saw through all the flaws of this system and fight to change that same system for the better.

and Hawks is in a position to restructure the hero system for the better based on the things he knows, taking a correct step in creating a Top that is defined by the actions in the place of power... BUT YOU DIDN'T ELIMINATE THE OLD TOP? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

And now I know why he doesn't do it, because of someone who has taken up more than enough pages in this work, the damn Katsuki Bakugo, another damn symbol of the old society that glorifies power over heroic actions.

Horikoshi himself didn't know what to do with the character beyond the first tests arc and HE SHOWS IT, because it is so contradictory with this character and everything that surrounds him in a disgusting way and the fandom doesn't want to accept it.

He literally doesn't get any attention when he does wrong, when he attacked Kurogiri with Kirishima, when he acts arrogant at the sports festival, when he hits Midoriya at the final exams and verbally abuses him in front of everyone, when at the camp he ignores Mandalay's instructions.

There is only one consequence for him in the manga, ONE, AND THAT IS THAT HE FAILS AN EXAM AND THAT'S IT.

Then he has a nervous breakdown saying "it's my fault that All Might retired" when he doesn't reflect on the danger he put his teammates in or the way he acts.

Here everyone is useless when it comes to Bakugo; Aizawa lets him go with a pat on the arm when he tries to attack Midoriya, 13 should have reported Bakugo and Kirishima to the principal after Kurogiri, Aizawa justifies Bakugo's behavior to heroes who are obviously outraged by his attitude during the festival, All Might ignores that his disciple bled from a punch from Bakugo and also that Bakugo almost killed him in the team tests.

When he is kidnapped, no one points out that he disobeyed a direct instruction in an emergency like the camp, instead Aizawa grabs a microphone and says "He's a great hero."

And in the provisional license exams, the Commission should have intervened and called him to attention, or at least Aizawa, but NOTHING.

Horikoshi makes him absent for a couple of arcs and then Bakugo reappears at the cultural festival where he doesn't change a cent, he just plays the drums, then he passes the provisional exams making the minimum effort possible while Todoroki, Utsushimi and Yoarashi do all the work with the children, and he tells the leader of the children "don't be an idiot" and that's it.

Then the Endeavor arc, he sneaks into Midoriya and Todoroki's internships and disrespects half the world, again without consequences and his appearance in this arc is to justify the disaster of power increase in the next arcs, wasn't it that he had already mastered his quirk? wasn't he a prodigal?

Then there's the war and he only serves as a human shield, receiving a lethal wound and SURVIVING to then wake up in the hospital and ignore that everyone is injured or in mourning and start screaming.

Then in the Dark Deku arc he mocks Izuku who is at his lowest point and makes the emptiest apologies I've read in a manga, with an apology comes a change and HE doesn't change.

His death and resurrection is totally useless to the plot other than to nerf (not kill) Edgeshot, who turns from a paper man into a surgery man to repair his heart and vital organs that are shown to have EXPLODED BY SHIGARAKI'S PUNCH.

He gets up and fights All For One at his weakest point and eliminates him, which has no real value because AFO then possesses Shigaraki anyway. And to make this more regrettable Bakugo KILLS KUROGIRI WHO WAS ON HIS SIDE.

What makes me the most angry is that Izuku is losing OFA and HE IS THE ONE CRYING

At this last point Midoriya has already completely lost the spotlight because Horikoshi never tires of inflating the Gary Stu that is Bakugo. And God forbid Midoriya to do even a little of what Bakugo did.

Midoriya at the end of each arc has no recognition, in fact, the recognition that Horikoshi gives him is reduced as the arcs go by

The story started with Midoriya saying that this would be like him "he became the greatest hero" and in the last arc he changes it to "we all became the greatest heroes" and it doesn't feel like a true victory once they achieve it, because Midoriya is not even the shadow of what he was.

With Horikoshi's decision to preserve the previous Top of Heroes it is obvious that he will give it to Bakugo, it is a worthless title because it is not defined by heroism, but by statistics that come from power and solved cases.

and this last one ruins Endeavor's ending even more

Speaking of Endeavor, he doesn't have his family anymore, he already lost his position, he's disabled and his money won't be his anymore, since he's going to put it at the disposal of his children. I was wondering if Horikoshi would make him face something legally but with everything that's happened I think it would have been the same result, with him paying monthly damages to his family.

and his family, god, what a family.

Rei needed more introspection and perspective on the situation, especially with Shoto and Touya if she was going to be included in the final battle. And yes, she stays with Endeavor, good for some and bad for others, but I want to know what led her to that, Horikoshi didn't justify it.

Fuyumi was fired not because of Endeavor's abuse, but because of the things Touya did. Again, this information is useless without a proper explanation. What information do you want to leave me with, that she got a new job? Will she work at the UA library or what?

Natsuo will be a Kotaro 2.0 because of his attitude, and honestly I never really liked him, especially because he didn't put any energy into getting to know Shoto or trying to reconcile with Touya after the final battle.

Shoto... poor Shoto, it feels like he was orphaned after the last family talk. In fact it feels disconnected from the story since the Dark Deku arc.

Well, I only have to talk about Eraser, because I already pointed out everything, empty villains, Midoriya's lack of introspection, Bakugo Katsuki's superfluous character... and there's this incapable who must be Horikoshi's self-insert.

Shouta Aizawa, aka Eraserhead, underground hero and the worst teacher in the known universe.

This guy never knew what he did, and just like Horikoshi, he tipped the scales towards Bakugo in every situation he could. He forced his students to give their all, but he didn't help at any time in the evolution of their powers... WHILE HE WAS TRAINING SHINSO.

He's not a teacher, he's just a security measure in case a quirk gets out of control, nothing more, and he even does wrong, he ties up students with his capture weapon and attacks them with his quirk threatening expulsion in any situation that bothers him

Present Mic points this out and many other things but is continually silenced by Aizawa and the fandom, even worse

The Fandom ships them.

and since we're mentioning the fandom, this is one of the worst fandoms in the universe.

90% of them seem to have gotten the story wrong and don't have a cent of criticism towards Bakugo or the league, and don't value the moments of the manga in the proper way.

There can't be a second without them believing that this is Shoujo, because they focus on Bakugo and Deku in the same panel and take it completely out of context (a bad habit that Rukasu created by translating the leaks absolutely wrong on purpose).

Now everyone is angry with Horikoshi not because he wrote a story in the most absurd way possible, but because the league of assassins did not have a happy ending and they just discovered that this was never a shojo.

Horikoshi was right to fear that the manga would be cancelled, because he clearly excels at drawing, not writing. Now we're getting a fan-made Attack of Titan Requiem 2.0 of Bakugo and the league making this twenty times worse than it already was.

I've also noticed that there are some creative people who are writing arc by arc either on tumblr or ao3, which gives me some faith that this nightmare is bearable.

Well, I read opinions, but not from fans of Bakugo, BKDK or the League of Villains.

[sherylhooper]

Now that BNHA is ending, I can finally say.... I didn't care about LoV at all, lmao. I didn't care about Shigaraki (kinda pitied little Tenko, sure), didn't care about Toga at all, didn't care about Spinner, Dabi, Compress, etc. Mind you Overhaul was more interesting with his "end the quirks cuz they are desease (kinda turned out true from AFO and Yoichi's backstory)".

People calling mangaka bad writer just because most of the criminals died and faced consequncws of their action and weren't "integrated into the society" (as if they hadn't killed hundreds of people) to live their "sunshine and rainbow lives" and how dare mangaka only make it seem like only children deserve to be saved and not villains...

How delusional are you, people? They were fucking murderers! Young or not, abused or not, shamed or not, discarded or not, they killed people! Do ya'll know how many serial killers had horrible childhood and were abused as children? Should we make it okay for them to roam the street juat for that and discard all the crimes they did?

"Just because it's realistic, doesn't mean that mangaka wrote it well, they deserved better" 🙄

And I say death for most of them was mercy and deserved to rot in Tartaros, end of story.

(LOV lovers dni, cuz I see one word and I'm gonna block your delusional selves)

[bibibbon]

RIP League of Villains, you were dead on arrival.

Listen, I’m not against humanizing villains but some people in the MHA fandom act like the LOV did no wrong and were only thinking about society.

Like.. did we watch the same show? The LOV stated multiple times that they basically wanted anarchy.

*Describes Shigaraki’s atrocities that fucked up their lives* “B-But he liked video games 🥺”

Good for him, HE STILL KILLED PEOPLE AND ONE OF THEM WAS A CHILD!

I honestly wish that people would address the league’s hypocrisy because it’s a genuinely interesting idea, I plan on tackling it in my fic.

But then again, whenever characters do address the league’s hypocrisy/rightfully doesn’t take shit, they get crucified.

(Aside from Enji and Overhaul, who deserve the shit beat out of them)

Hi @palesweetscherryblossom 👋

I love the leauge and the potential they had and Iam also not against humanising them but little of them actually deserve it would get a proper redemption.

A lot of people seem to forget that toga was already introduced as a serial killer (she killed 6 people and performed blood letting and you can go as far as cannibalism on them)

Or the fact that Dabi only cared about bringing down enji and never actually spoke up about the kids that died in Dr Garaki's hospital.

Or how shigaraki somehow knew all along that afo was manipulating him and done nothing but played into his games. Shigaraki also never proves himself as a leader or worthy of redemption in canon.

Or stain who went around killing heroes left and right. The same with muscular.

Or moonfish who was a cannibal

Oh or maybe compress who I still have no idea why he is evil to be honest or i just forgot.

They all done bad things which is why they are considered criminals while they could be humanised like toga, Dabi, shigaraki and spinner that doesn't actually excuse their actions. The leagues backstory is supposed to give us a reason or a look as into why they became the people they did and how society failed them but it's NOT supposed to justify or make their actions seem ok.

Also the hypocrisy that the leauge members have is actually interesting and could be explored as a character trait that they learn to develop out of or keep with them and it becomes an integral part of their character.

YOU CAN BE A VICTIM AND DO BAD THINGS. A Villain CAN BE A VICTIM AND DO BAD THINGS. THE TWO CAN COEXIST

I simply hate it when people can only look at the leauge as just victims who were completely justified and done nothing wrong when in reality they aren't!!

Now there are characters that I wouldn't give a redemption to like Dr garaki, AFO, overhaul, Enji and the comission but the other characters have a chance at being humanised or getting a meaningful redemption or ending

[moonsb1996]

What is your opinion on these people?

Early in the morning, according to my home time Going to comment on things I disagree with about Toga Himiko, but not attacking anyone except the characters they love so much, especially the actions of said characters. And this is what they And some people received replies for expressing their disagreement with Himiko Toga's actions.

I only chose people who seemed to "pity" Himiko Toga to the point of not caring. What are her current actions? She is pitiful She has no support. It's Toga's parents' fault. It's society's fault. And it makes me wonder In that way, would Toga not be guilty because society, heroes, and her parents forced her to genocide the human race and all the other props? I even thought If Toga's clone was released in the War Refugees section because some hero (Ochako) chose to talk to Toga about their love. (Which many people call it a confession of love vomit) rather than "choosing to arrest" first and "talk" later. I really want to know the families of those supporting characters. Or if Toga's clone were to encounter a war refugee camp, how bloody would it be? Fan club: Oh! It's not Toga's fault. Refugees and props are the ones who have ended up in the Toga Clone Army's expansion zone. Sigh…These people only talked about Toga's past and didn't even mention her murder. Ah… prop characters can only be prop characters. It's like us readers who waste time reading MHA which is just an NPC by Horikoshi Kohei who sees us as stupider than monkeys.

[suchusoid]

How other villains worked better as sympathetic where the league failed

I know I said I was going to make a post regarding my final oc villain, anonymous, but due to recents events, i just dont have the energy to do so. To clear my mind, I've decided to take a break from oc posts and talk about how certain character archetypes from this series are done betger by other shows, movies and books, starting with the league of villains.

For this comparision, I'll be comparing the LOV with a group of villains that actually inspired my oc (ghoulian my beloved) the sadler trio from the goosebumps book "ghost beach"

Is probably what you're thinking. The sadler trio are the ghosts of a trio of immigrant siblings from england who traveled to new england in hopes of a better life. Unfortunately, they ended up dying in cold and have roamed the beach as ghosts for 300 years. They long for companions in death and plan to take their distant cousins jerry and terri to the grave.

Louisa is the girl with the pigtails and velvet dress, sam is the boy with the white hair and black vest, and nat is the boy with the bowl cut and the striped t shirt, remember that now.

The first thing I want to talk about is the family dynamics

The leagues bonds are, for a lack of a better word, shaky. While we do see certain memebers like twice and toga showing genuinely nice moments of friendship, and magne being a well liked and respected member, earning her the title of "big sis mags", other members like shigaraki and dabi contradict the found family dynamic the story and fandom are selling. Shigaraki barely shows any care for his fellow members, when magne died, he was more concerned about staying on top while toga and twice actually wanted to avenge their fallen ally. Shigaraki also doesnt have any reaction to twices death either. Dabi is honestly worse as he refuses to pitch in at times, called spinner a derogetory slur, and then pulled a bruno marcotulli and said he shouldnt get upset about it. Spinners motives also dont align with shigarakis in the slightest, to the point where they straight up had to retcon his motives not once, but twice, just to make shigaraki seem like a good leader. Truth is their motives and personalities clash too hard for their dynamic not to feel forced.

The sadlers on the other hand actually do show genuine care and concern for each other, most notably when nat clings to louisa as a source of comfort when he gets scared and sam being the mediator and voice of reason, showing how they do care for eachother and work cohesively as a group, while the league is more dysfunctional than a 50's sitcom family.

Next is motives, the leagues motives at the end of the day, are to cause destruction and misery to whoever they please with no consequences, I really dont know how else to put it. Shigaraki wants to destroy everything, dabi wants to hurt his father and is willing to drag innocent people into the mix, toga gets off to killing, and the other three are just along for the ride with no qualms about their peers actions. This really doesnt help making them sympathetic when the story tries to shove a bunch of sad backstories in our face and say "please feel bad for them!"

Comparitively, the sadlers motives are far more understandable. At the end of the day, all they want is companionship. Its far more easy to get behind "we were robbed lf a decent life and have lived in solidarity on this beach for centuries with a guy whos been planning our downfall, we desperately want you to stay with us" as opposed to " we are societal outcasts who just want to lash out and makes things worse for everyone else without even trying to combat the societal issues that caused things in the first place."

On top of that, the sadlers actions, which include trying to kill harrison sadler( the ghost hunter) attempting to kill jerry and terri, and eating a dog (dogs can sense ghosts and would give them away.), while morally reprehensible , come from a place of desperation as opposed to malice. The sadler trio never take enjoyment out of their actions. Heck, when its revealed they're ghosts there practically on their hands and knees begging the twins to stay with them.

Thisis unlike the league, who take full pleasure in hurting others to achieve their goals *cough* toga *cough* shigaraki * cough* dabi * cough*.

Lastly is their fates, the sadlers are trpaped in magic cave the essentially sends ghosts to the afterlife and puts them to rest. Makes sense since their motives were from them being stuck in a proverbial limbo.

The leaghes fate is hori hyping up them being saved... and then all die or just get arrested, making their whole arcs feel like a waste of time.

Phew, now thats cleared up my min, I may get to doing anonymous' character sheet sometime soon, let me know what you guys think, and have a good evening!

[dunndunie]

Don't get me wrong, I love Dabi and his character + backstory but I still think he's a massive hypocrite.

That yapfest he had about Hawks irritated me "You can't trust Hawks because he killed Twice! Blah blah" You killed over 30+ people you are the last person I'd trust

[wingsfreedom]

I don't even feel slightly attached to the LoV villains at all. I liked Shîgaraki at first but since AFO took over him his character lost me. I used to enjoy Dābi as well but he lost me too: he's a monomanical with occasional depth. The best part about his character is the artwork but aside from that he's a broken record.

Never liked Toga, or Yandare archetype overall.

In general, they're deeply self-absorbed and hypocritical characters who expect therapy from strangers insead of consequences.

These heroes are more like police and aren't responsible for saving people with superpowers but arresting them... yet this is how Hori arranged forced redemption narratives.

[wrongplaceworsttime]

the struggle of reading bnha right now as somebody who just doesn’t care about the villains... the narrative assumes i do, and is trying to tug on my heart strings or whatever, given all the focus on dabi and toga, but it doesn’t interest meeeee

i’ve never particularly liked the villains. they’re just very stereotypical villains man, what’s there that’s interesting? i can’t think of one character trait for any of them that surprised me by not being what i expected.

[mangasstuffcomics]

I love gentle criminal are we say his hero now

Tsukauchi being entirely correct all chapter a crime is crime the past doesn't go away this gives me some hope that the lov will be held accountable for there crimes

Yes no matter what crime you've committed your still human at the end of the day but there's a but

You can only really change if you have the desire to change

And of course we have gentle criminal actually acknowledging his mistakes unlike the lov and actually trying to make for them point being the villains are human and should be treated as humans but should be held accountable for there crimes and crime is a crime the past doesn't go way

I know people want the lov to get a redemption that's not happening first to even turn there lives around they would have to have the desire to change none of them want to change

And none of them acknowledge the crimes and mistakes I know some people genuinely want toga to have redemption but how can she have a redemption when see doesn't even think about how her actions affected the families of the boys she killed even after twice death

For any lov member expect for kurogiri his nomu to get a redemption they actually have realise that they are wrong for murdering innocent civilians and heroes and I know much lov stans complain about the heroes dehumanizing the heroes when the villains do the exact same thing

The lov doesn't even acknowledge the people they kill as human dabi constantly dehumanizes shoto the league litteraly uses the nomu and don't even considered the fact that dead people are used to create them don't even consider that those people had families don't even consider the fact that the doctor owned orphanages and children hostiptals so atleast some the nomu where made from children

Kurogiri being a prime example being made form shirakumo innocent 17 boy who there now using as a tool

As you can see it's not the heroes responsibility to redeem them if the lov members want any version of redemption they would have to decide to change on there own just like gentle criminal la brava lady nagant and endeavor

[francforever]

Bitch tf you mean? You have destroyed SEVERAL towns and killed HUNDREDS of people was that not enough for you 💀

[violetlunette]

Things you hate about Hori's writing?

Before we begin, I want to state that I don’t think Hori is a bad writer. I think he has strengths and weaknesses like all writers. I also know that Hori is under a lot of pressure from fans, his editor, publishers, and whoever else is involved with making a manga. I’m also aware that writing a manga is different than book writing, which is what I’m trying to study, so I may not understand a few things. Plus, Hori is under a time crunch which may affect his writing.

That being said, I was asked what I don’t like about his writing, so;

Notes:

*BNHA Critical

*Anti-Shigaraki (mainly how he's written and handled storywise.)

*Take it with a grain of salt

*Keep in mind that these will be writing elements only, not how I feel about characters.

Also, keep in mind that BNHA is a LONG series, so please be polite in your corrections if you feel there's a mistake. Also, the post is a bit rambly, so if you would like me to clarify something I said, let me know.

1: Lack of Build up.

*Now, not everything needs to be built up in a story, however, if it plays an important role, story or character-wise, then it has to.

This especially failed with Midnight, which pissed me off because Hori showed he could do death a scene right with Twice! Twice was built up as a person, we saw his connections with people, we saw him fighting for what he believed in, and we saw him die. We got none of that with Midnight. To anyone who only read the main manga, did you know she was high school friends with Aizawa and Hizashi and that she took in a kitten they found? And that SHE was the one who pushed Aizawa into his teaching job? No, you didn’t. Because Hori failed to tell us that. Also, Hori failed to build Midnight up as a person, show us what she loved, skipped her death scene, and yet expects to get the same emotional payoff as Twice.

2: Not allowing us to learn more about Class 1-A and seeing their internal struggles.

*I hate the LoV but I understand why others may connect with them. One of the reasons is that we get to see their inner thoughts and feeling and learn about their past and why they’re the way they are. With Class 1-A we don’t know over half the class. What do I mean by that? 

Why are they heroes? Tenya wants to be like his brother, Izuku wants to be like All Might, and Ochako wants money for her family and just likes helping people. But what about Toru? Why does she want to be a hero? How did she get in? And so on. What are the students' morals? They believe in protecting people, but what else? Are they chaotic? Lawful? Neutral? What? And what are their struggles? Etc.

Why is all of this important, and why is it a writing failure? Because we need this stuff to care about the characters. This is especially important in the climax where we’re supposed to be rooting for the heroes, but instead, most aren’t. Why? Because we never got to get to know them.

3: Important information is in side materials

*Most of the development of Class 1-A is in Team Up Missions and school briefs where the canon is questionable as they’re written by different authors. But the worst offense is having Aizawa’s backstory in BNHA:V. Why? Because the payoff for that backstory is in the main series. Aizawa’s backstory has no emotional weight and feels out of place in BNHA:V. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t have been the main story. It could have been slipped in while Aizawa and Hizashi are driving to see Kurogiri. This is especially important as it tells the audience of the main series who Oboro is and why he’s important. As of now, without reading the other series, he’s just a few images where he barely talks.

For it is a huge writing failure on the writer's part if I have to buy DLC or go to side materials to get the complete story as those are supposed to add, not fill in plot holes and such.

4: Everything is being shoved into the final climax

*In the climax where everything is supposed to come to a head, we are dealing with the backstories of several characters, plot points that barely showed up, several "twists" and more, making the fight longer than a DBZ battle. Not only does this stretch things out to the point of boredom where everyone is just like, "get on with it!" but it also fails to give us and the story time to build on these points, most of which are important. To be fair, I don't think this is Hori's fault, as he's being pushed to wrap things up if the rumors are correct.

5: Shiggy barely does anything

*Shiggy is the main villain of the series. He’s on the posters, the covers, in the theme song, etc. 

Yet he doesn’t do a thing to push the plot and Izuku’s arc till the end. And even then, AFO’s does most of the work. No, really; after the USJ arc and before the hospital arc, how does Shiggy influence the plot?

He released two Nomus after meeting Stain. Okay. What role does that play in the plot or on Izuku? None. You can take that out and it wouldn’t change the story except for a scene or two. Shiggy “talks” with Izuku at the mall? What’s the effect there? Well, it has them change the campsite but again, that changes nothing as far as the story goes, nor does it push the plot. And Izuku? Again, no change. Shiggy orders Izuku’s death? See above. The scene with Bakagou? Put anyone there, and it would have been the same. And as soon as the heroes show up, it becomes about AFO.

And once AFO is arrested? Overhaul becomes the villain and—correct me if I’m wrong—the other league members play a bigger role than him. And none of his actions affect the plot that much. Like, do the member of the league do anything that Overhaul’s minions couldn’t do? And again, the effect on Izuku, the protagonist; zero.

It isn’t until Giran is captured that Shiggy does something to push the plot forward and that’s defeating Re-Destructo and having the MLA join him. After that? He goes to sleep so he can get a makeover! (Which, to be fair, paid off as his hair becomes nice and fluffy, but still.)

It’s not until the hospital raid that Shiggy not only moves the plot forward AND affects Izuku. And then, almost immediately, AFO takes over. Even in the current arc, I’m not sure if it’s Shiggy fighting or AFO. The most he did was in the USJ arc, and even then, it was the NOMU that affected the characters and plot. True, Shiggy nearly kills Tsuyu and figures out Aizawa's trick, but he's not the one who leaves the damage on Aizawa that persist throughout the series or lessens All Might's time. It's the Nomu. He crushes Aizawa's face and the rest of his body, then stands enough of a threat against All Might that he has to push past his limit. And both these actions affect the plot of the story. None of Shiggy's actions do.

In Inuyasha we barely saw Naraku, however, you can’t take him out of the story and replace him with someone else. Why? Because the story wouldn’t have happened without Naraku being Naraku. Without him, Kikyo wouldn’t have died nor would the drama between her and Inuyasha. (Not to mention the drama with the rest of the party.) The point is that if Naraku vanished from Inuyasha the whole story would fall apart.

That’s not the case with Shiggy. Anyone could have led the attack on USJ and had the same effect on the story and the characters. Anyone could have been possessed by AFO and triggered Izuku’s need to save them. Anyone could be Nana’s grandson and the effect would be the same. And, as Shiggy is the poster villain for MHA, this is the greatest writing failure of MHA. Why? Because a villain's role is to push the plot and the hero's arc forward.

Hell, Overhaul is only around for one arc, and he affects the story more than Shiggy; 

Overhaul's actions caused Izuku to force himself to grow to help Eri, then showed Izuku that defeating a villain isn't enough to save someone as Eri was still traumatized. Mirio lost his quirk, prompting a sense of guilt in Izuku but determination in Eri so she could help him. The bullets Overhaul made come back and cripple Aizawa to the point he has to depend on others. Night eye is killed by him and dies in Ochako's arms, forcing her to rethink her career and install an intense need to save others so no one dies on her watch again. And so on. 

And as for AFO, just like Naraku, the story wouldn't exist without him. Without him, there would be no OFA, All Might's backstory wouldn't have happened, all the nomu plots wouldn't exist, and Shiggy would have nothing. Everything Shiggy has isn't through his own strength but through AFO.

The point is that AFO and Overhaul cannot be removed or replaced by another to make the story function. Shiggy can, and to me, that is a huge failure.

Special mentions; (these are more opinion based)

1: Wasted concepts

*Hori has a bunch of good ideas but due to time constraints or overwhelming himself, Hori rarely follows through or explores the full potential.

The biggest example is the Nomus. I stated this in another post but I’ll copy it here;

“The Nomus are the ones that carry the threat and the emotional impact for the main cast. Kurogiri connects to Aizawa and shows that AFO has not only been stealing corpses but has been eyeing UA students especially, which connects to UA. And the Bat Nomu is a personal connection to Izuku and Bakagou, who are both major players. And we know Dabi’s connection to the plot.”

Because the Nomus are mostly made of dead people, this could have a huge impact on the cast. Forget about Shiggy, if AFO really wanted to get back at All Might he should have used Nana’s corpse in some way. That would have shaken him up and hurt him and the audience more than some kid All Might met once. Plus, the nomus aren’t just dead people, they’re living people that were experimented on. Think of how that raises the stakes for the heroes as they’re not just fighting villains, they’re fighting innocent people who were kidnapped and brainwashed. And every time a hero dies they can end up as one of those monsters. Again, the emotional stakes are raised.

This is especially important for Izuku. Even if the bat nomu disappeared after one arc he would still have made an impact on the story if he had faced Izuku and been revealed who he was. Why? Because he was someone Izuku knew. A bully, yes, but still someone Izuku knew. And AFO turned him into a monster. This gives Izuku a personal reason to fight and train harder while introducing him to the kind of person AFO was. Whether Bat Nomu died or was captured, there’s a personal stake for Izuku.

I could go on, but this post is already gonna be long. The gist is that we got the bare minimum with them and it’s a shame.

But it’s not just the Nomus, there’s also Stain. They introduced a cool villain with a decent concept and half a leg to stand on, but they lock him up right away and don’t bother with him again for over two hundred chapters. And even then he does ONE thing, then vanishes.

There are also a ton of wasted characters like over half the class of 1-A, The UA teachers, the quirkless, the MLA, and Sir Night Eye.

Now to balance this, here’s what I like about Hori’s writing;

1: Decent Concepts *While he doesn’t always explore them very well, Hori does put out fun concepts that fanfic writers myself have fun with.

2: The creative use of Quirks *When Hori shows us the quirks he’s very creative in their uses which is cool to see. And there’s a lot of science and research behind them that I’m discovering.

3: The Characters *Love ‘em or hate ‘em, Hori creates a lot of interesting characters, a majority that people want to learn about. (Shame we don’t but I digress.) (Plus most of the designs are creative.)

4: All Might’s character and arc *Nearly everything about All Might is perfect from a story perspective. Almost everything about how All Might is written is done absolutely well.

5: The setup *The stage Hori set up is very interesting and I like it. I like the premise, the setting, the characters, and more.

6: The Art *I like most of Hori’s designs as they’re nice-looking and creative. Most of the costumes are fun as well. (I love Ochako's hero costume! As well as Stars and Stripes'.)

7: Subtle scenes *This is mainly shown in the beginning, but many small scenes carry many character and story elements without it being overly obvious. But I talked about them in my chapter reviews, so I won't repeat myself.

And that's it! Feel free to share what you like or dislike about Hori's writing elements.

[yonkokraven]

If anyone asks where it all started to go wrong, it's certainly the Stain Arc

-Before that we had a minimum of seriousness to Bakugo's attacks on Midoriya, and then it becomes a recurring gag

-The League of Villains at this point isn't hypocritical enough, here they could give it an approach that actually resembles Stain's ideals instead of the seeds for "I WanT to DeStrOyYyy"

-No event from any movie had happened yet, so those plots could be used appropriately as individual arcs and better developed than the nonsense we've seen.

-Endeavor, there are many things here that I think Hori could have done if he really wanted to redeem Endeavor.

-Here Horikoshi could establish a genuine curiosity of Midoriya towards the meaning of being a hero Because its definition is only "save and help people" but it does not know how things move beyond the academy.

-Here they could easily let Izuku receive recognition from the public with mixed opinions, on the one hand he and his companions saved Native, but on the other they did not have a corresponding license (something perfectly excusable since Hosu had to be in a state of Emergency during the Nomu attack.)

-Give Toga a personality that argues that she needs help IN THE PRESENT and not a flashback so that we feel bad for her and her past when she literally enjoys killing.

-Dabi and Stain had a past as mentor-student, and that instead of killing selflessly he would only kill false heroes

- Spinner can explain more about why he agrees with Stain and that he truly follows that belief of worthy heroes, Whether because a pro-hero discriminated against him or he saw a pro-hero attack a heteromorph unjustifiably, anything helps.

-Compress uses his masks because in reality his face is recognizable, since the families of his ancestor's victims did not stop tormenting his family for generations and basically he cannot live a normal life having "the blood of a villain"

-That Mustard does not have such twisted morals to kill yet, but that his story comes hand in hand with the discrimination of weak or abnormal quirks

-That Moonfish is someone who really reached a point of no return by completely giving in to his quirk.

-Leave Muscular like that, it works that he's a jerk because we've already been shown villains who simply do things for their own benefit (Although the entire league agrees that at the first opportunity they tie him up in the trunk of a car and throw him into the sea)

-That most of the league agrees on the limits of not killing students or civilians, while Shigaraki and Muscular visibly detest this.

Then you can imagine that with all these points presented the story changes course and currently we would have a justification for the sudden "I want to save Tenko" or "I want to save Toga" or "I want to save the league"

[bibibbon]

I hate spinner now! No offense of who loves him bc yes fics can fix it but in canon I hate him.

He is a crazy fan of shig....am I not the only one who makes the comparasion between fanatic spinner with fanatic nighteye ...am I?

Yeah Iam not spinners biggest fan either @mikeellee and it's a shame that this what we got from his character. To be honest his whole thing felt hypocritical whether that be calling izuku a murderer and bashing him for it (they literally both killed people so 🤷‍♀️) or him calling shoji "squid" which made me feel so uneasy because wasn't one of spinner's whole point of being a villain was because he liked stains ideals (stain likes izuku btw) and that he was discriminated against because he was a hetamorphis.

No I haven't actually drawn the parallels between spinner and nighteye but you can definitely say that since spinner is going as far as making a whole book/comic to glorify the league and shigaraki which interpret that how you will but glorifying someone like shig is definitely not it.

You can argue that they had potential but in the end that was all wasted wasn't it? Just like everything in MHA at this point

[moonsb1996]

The most annoying and funny thing about MHA for me

The scene where Toga stitches up Ochako's wound with a needle. Thank you, the anime "tried" so hard to make me believe that "you stitch up the wound and give the injured person a direct blood transfusion and everything will be okay". If I remember correctly from medical series, if there is a stab wound or a deep wound, doesn't it have to be stitched from the inside out first? Example: A knife cuts off the blood vessel, a knife clamps the blood vessel, and stitches it up. Then stitches up the wound that needs to be cut wider to heal it, and after stitching up the blood vessel, stitches up the wound. Done! I know I'm asking too much for anime and fiction, but just Toga being able to give Ochako a blood transfusion is driving me crazy. Because if she could do it in the first place, there would be countless Twice blood!

[wingsfreedom]

Something you only need to say in BNHA fandom.

[suchusoid]

If hori actually took the time to make the league redeemable the plotline could have worked, but the canon league are so callous, deranged, despicable, uncaring, self centered psychos that don't care about anything but their own dedtructive interests, and it doesnt matter how many innocent people get hurt, because the league only care about making a world were they can do whatever the hell the want without consequences. Hori did this on purpose so that he wouldn't actually have to explore the gray area.

I think the reason why I’m so upset wit the end of MHA is that, while it had been building up to the hero students saving their villain, the ending was instead just “if you’re too damaged and traumatised you’re beyond saving and just need to be put out of your misery”. Friend, I’m holding your shoulders and shaking you so please believe me: no one is ever beyond saving. I say this as an abuse survivor who has experienced things that would make most people shit their pants full. Please understand that post-traumatic growth exists. Post-traumatic joy exists. Post-traumatic love exists. Friend, you are not too damaged and you will go on to live a wonderful life.