#point is... she's a good character and her arc is interesting and to deny that

[variousqueerthings]

it also does a disservice to martha i feel, it's an easy way to go "and therefore she is the single companion who wouldn't want to see the doctor again or have anything to do with them (which, apart from anything else, ignores her s4 stories)" conveniently therefore we can take her out of the narrative

i think there's an issue with on the one hand the racism that was in the writing and in the fandom (and still is in the fandom) meant that martha was put in a position of "strong black woman" tropes, and her family undoubtedly went through some of the most traumatising narrative in doctor who, and there's a question there of how thoughtful the show was being (or wasn't) in how black characters are "allowed" to be involved in genre like science fiction in ways that are demonstrably different to white characters (i have a spiel here about human nature/family of blood, but i digress...)

-- and then on the other hand balancing out the fact that she's actually a very well-written character and her narrative with the doctor is way more give and take than it's given credit for, and -- in my opinion -- a lot of the issues in the writing weren't actually their relationship at all, that shit was for the most part really powerful and had a clear trajectory, and she ended up with a lot of agency over her choices and the doctor respecting those choices

to try to find the uncomplicated Issue Of Martha, regardless of whether going for racist "she was whiny and held the doctor back and isn't rose," or the ostensibly less racist "her relationship with the doctor was badly written because of the doctor, and she only deserved better," claims either way that there is inherently An Issue With Martha, when it's quite possible to hold the acknowledgement and analysis of the misogynoir in parts of the writing and structure of s3, and also that she's like... objectively really cool and her relationship with the doctor is very interesting and also they canonically think the world of each other

i really do think the desire to paint ten as unambiguously The Worst™️ when it comes to his relationship with martha is out of this desire to uncomplicate their relationship. to decouple them as friends and people who profoundly impacted each other’s lives. it’s just an easier narrative to swallow: that ten was Awful to her and then martha kicked him to the curb when she realized she was too good for him. easier, maybe, then dealing with the troubles of unrequited affection don’t have to be anyone’s fault, or that ten shut martha out in a lot of ways but let her in in others that he wouldn’t let any other companion near, or that they were still friends, they still wanted to see each other and be around each other, even though it was messy and sometimes hurt. you know?

[lightdancer1]

See the further irony is:

That in using 'Mall Goth Sauron' as the take on Dark Willow over 'misogynist has character randomly killed for LULZ' it also allows for greater accountability on the one hand and for Season 7 to thematically focus on repairing all this damage in the midst of facing an enemy of shadows reliant on lies to further itself. The only way to break the Druj is the absolute Truth in a very Zoroastrian sense. Characters don't get to neatly skip past accountability for their actions, and this would spiral over into further later seasons with the essential reality that in an otherwise lower-level setting this one random girl from California is a Dark Phoenix-tier reality warper and the most powerful person on the planet, or the universe.

And the questions of how that power could and should be employed on the one hand and that Willow is essentially a Doctor Strange type who beats up Gods and Eldritch Abominations for her regular line of work where her counterparts deal with the more 'street level' crises would in turn be the logical conclusion of where the show ends. She doesn't do as much physical fighting for the same reason that Stephen Strange never uses magic to go punch the Hulk in the face, her narrative role is ultimately that of Sorceress Supreme of Earth, with literally nobody in an ancient established war anticipating that this one random ginger from California was and is the new Sorceress Supreme and that if they had had such awareness the realities are that this power would and could have taken worse forms.

Unfortunately for the world, the reality too is that it is a shy computer geek who has a not at all subtle dark side and the usual teenage anxieties and insecurities given the equivalent of being able to reliably actually do things other people might dream of but can never do.

But again as long as Dawn Summers being a good thing is a narrative convention that's established memory magic is a poor choice to show the corrupting effects of reality-warping. It's a case of 'yes as established in canon all of this is true for that one season but then they decided to retcon it, so the fans are not obligated to care about it any more than the canon does about this itself.'

[anneapocalypse]

On Wuk Lamat, and Female Characters in FFXIV

The Thing with Wuk Lamat is you can tell me you think she had too much screentime; you can give me numbers on how many lines she had or how many scenes she's in relative to other characters or other expacs; you can prove to me "objectively" that she gets more focus than other main NPCs; you're simply not going to convince me that this is something I should be unhappy about. And not just because it's silly to think you can use numbers to prove a story is good or bad and make someone else go, "Wow, you're right, let me just throw away all the joy I experienced with this story and revise my opinion because you've scientifically proven to me that I'm wrong."

Because while I love Final Fantasy XIV and I have greatly enjoyed its story in so many ways, fundamentally one of my biggest beefs with this game has been how much female characters have been denied complex character arcs and growth and agency and interiority.

Minfilia gets treated as a sacrificial vessel who lives for everyone but herself and doesn't even get to have feelings about her own death because that entire arc is focused on a male character's angst about it instead. The game tells us in the Heavensward patches that Krile sees Minfilia as her best friend and then just forgets about that later and never follows up on what that loss must have meant to her. Ysayle is basically right about most of what she's fighting for but harboring a bit of self-delusion is apparently such a terrible sin that she has to pay for it with her life, while her male foil is deemed so worthy of salvation that there's a whole plot point about how important it is that we risk our lives and others' lives to save him. Y'shtola is a major character who's been around since the beginning, and the game keeps dropping maddeningly interesting things about her (apprenticed to a cranky old witch in a cave! saved her own life and the lives of her friends with an illegal and dangerous spell and it worked! reserved and undemonstrative yet regularly through her actions reveals herself to be deeply caring! disabled!) and then shows complete disinterest in following up on any of those things with the kind of depth and care shown to male characters with complex arcs like Urianger.

In general there is also a repeated thread of female characters being portrayed as weak or overly emotional: Minfilia is weak because she doesn't fight and needs to be eaten by a god in order to gain "a strength long sought." Krile is portrayed as not being able to pull her weight with the Scions (despite the fact that she actively keeps five of them from dying in Shadowbringers) and the only thing they could think of for her to do in Endwalker was be yet another vessel for Hydaelyn (hmm, that sounds familiar) and it's not until Dawntrail that she gets much actual character development in the main story and even that has to come alongside "Look, she can fight now so that means she's useful." (And I love Picto!Krile, I'm just saying, there's a pattern.) Alisaie, despite having very good reasons for needing to find her own path apart from her brother, is portrayed as having to prove herself when she returns, that she's "not the girl she once was," and "will not be a burden" (while Alphinaud is repeatedly given the benefit of the doubt and reassurance and affirmation from other characters even after he takes on responsibilities he isn't ready for and fucks up big time).

And if you follow me you know I adore Urianger, and I love Alphinaud and Thancred and Estinien too, so please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here! I'm not knocking those characters, or saying we shouldn't also love them. I just use them as a comparison to demonstrate how the female characters have been neglected.

Lyse has some of the stronger character development among the female Scions, and while she's still kind of portrayed as being too emotional and hotheaded in early Stormblood, I think it's actually explored in more depth in a way that I like; Lyse has good reasons for wanting to fight for her nation's freedom, but having been away from Ala Mhigo for several years now, she needs to understand the stakes for the people who've been there fighting for years, what they've lost and still have to lose. She grows as a person and rises to the challenge of leadership, and I'm even okay with the fact that she leaves the Scions afterward because it feels right for her to stay in Ala Mhigo, and at least she doesn't die.

And by all accounts she was, like Wuk Lamat, widely hated when her expansion came out.

Unironically I think the other female Scion with the strongest character arc is Tataru. She tries to take up a combat job, finds that it's not for her, and decides to focus on where her strengths are instead. In doing so, she both holds the Scions together as an organization in the absence of a leader by capably managing their finances, and also comes into her own as a businesswoman and makes international connections that benefit both the Scions and her personally. In contrast to Minfilia, she's not portrayed as weak because she doesn't fight, and is actually allowed to be an important character who's good for more than being sacrificed. Tataru is still distinctly in a supporting role for the player character, however, and her character arc happens as a side story that takes up a relatively small amount of screentime over several expansions, which I think is probably why she doesn't evoke such a negative reaction.

But there is a pattern of the game's writing showing disinterest in the interior lives of female characters generally, and in making their growth the focus of a story.

So yeah, I'm going to be happy about Wuk Lamat! I'm going to enjoy and celebrate every moment of her character arc, of her personal growth, of watching her put the lessons she's learned into action. I'm going to love and treasure every moment when she gets to be silly, embarrassing, emotional, scared, grieving, confused, upset, seasick, impulsive, and still deemed worthy of growing into a hero and a leader. I will love her with all of my soul and you simply will not convince me that it wasn't worth the screentime after such a profound imbalance for basically the entirety of the game. We've never had a major female character get such a strong arc with this much love and attention put into it and that means more to me than I can truly say. The backlash to it is disheartening, as this kind of thing always is, but I'm not going to let it ruin the wonderful experience I had playing it and how much joy it continues to bring me.

And for those of you who don't want any of that for a female character, thank goodness you have Heavensward and Shadowbringers and Endwalker and no one can take those away from you.

(And if you follow me you know that I love Shadowbringers and Endwalker and have very fond memories of Heavensward despite some issues with it, so not only can I not take that from you, I am not trying to!)

Some of us have been real hungry for a character like this with an arc like this, so, I think, y'know, maybe we can have that. As a treat.

[masochist-marmot]

A fair and balanced look at MHA chapter 431

To all of my fellow bakudeku and togachako truthers out there: I see you, I hear you, and your disappointment is valid. I agree with a lot of the criticism. However, I have a lot of nuanced thoughts, and I will attempt to write them down in a balanced way, so bear with me. I will also treat the leaks as though they were confirmed for now.

(This post became an essay so I'll divide it into subheadings for clarity.)

Reminder: Be kind

Before I get into this, I'd like to remind everyone to please be kind and understanding when having this discourse. I get that there are strong feelings involved, but please don't harass the creators or other members of the community. Remember that at the end of the day this is fiction, and no one has the right to dictate how others view it or consume it. You are allowed to express your opinions and feelings, but try to be respectful to those who don't share them. No matter what side of the issue you stand on.

Queer relationships in shounen

First of all, I understand that it's disappointing when potential queer relationships are sidelined in favour of compulsory heterosexuality. But I can't say that I'm surprised. The standards and norms of depicting relationships in shounen manga go deep, and while it would be nice to see them challenged, we have to remember that there is an entire industry behind these decisions. I'm talking about genre conventions, authorial decisions (affected by unconscious biases), editors, publishers and a whole lot of moving parts. There's a lot of money involved, which means that any changes to the conventions will happen at a snail's pace. I am not excusing the decisions Horikoshi made, but it's good to be mindful that the decisions don't take place in a vacuum. I went into the series with the full expectations that none of the same-sex relationships would be made canon, so I'm not overtly disappointed with that being the case. It's the same expectation I take to any shounen series.

It's obviously worthwhile to question and challenge conventions like these, that's how progress is made. But focusing on a specific author's specific choices might not be the best way to go about it. Although it's worth pointing out that Horikoshi didn't have to make any relationship canon, yet chose to do so. Let me get into that.

Why IzuOcha falls flat

There is no denying that izuocha seems to have been the end goal from the very beginning. She's the first girl, Izuku took immediate notice of her, and her feelings for him became her entire character for a while. It's a cute ship, I guess. The issue is that it lacks any real depth. I'm going to be completely honest with you: I don't think Horikoshi is very good at writing compelling female characters. A lot of the male characters get amazing character arcs, while many female heroes only get a couple of cool moments (full of fanservice) and are promptly discarded. Himiko and Ochako, who have the most compelling female relationship of any kind in the entire series, fail the very simple Bechdel test miserably. Half of their conversations literally revolve around the male protagonist.

I believe this is why many of us prefer bakudeku over izuocha. The boys just get much better character development both as individuals and in relation to each other. Izuku and Ochako's moments don't cut nearly as deep, and while they do somewhat further Ochako's character development, they seem to have no bearing on Deku's character. Meanwhile Uraraka's conflict with Toga meaningfully challenges and alters both characters' worldview, even though their relationship had much less time and opportunities to develop. To me this whole situation just reads as Horikoshi giving Deku a canon love interest early on, then failing to develop the relationship and having to rush it to get the ending he intended.

Character study: Izuku and Katsuki 8 years later

Now I'll ignore authorial intent for a while and ponder on how the leaked chapter reflects on the character development of my main boys. I'm actually not that mad about the decisions Deku makes in this (forced romance aside). I seem to be in the minority that's fine with Deku losing OFA and becoming a teacher, because I actually think it suits him perfectly. In chapter 430 I mostly took issue with him being lonely for eight years and then jumping the gun to become a hero again, which seemed kinda contradictory. If he was truly contented with being a teacher, they could've made it clearer. Though I'm not going to lie, Kacchan funding his battle armor was incredibly cute. In the leaked chapter, it almost feels like they were trying to reinforce the notion that Deku is happy with his life as a teacher, which feels a little forced, but I can respect it. You have to remember that he's been quirkless for eight years and has had time to come to terms with it. People change a lot in eight years. I barely recognise the person I was eight years ago. So what rubbed me the wrong way wasn't that he rejected Kacchan's roundabout offer but the way he rejected it. Like the guy's really hung up on you, the least you could do is let him down easy.

What I think is an especially hard pill to swallow is the distance between Kacchan and Deku. Unfortunately, it also kinda tracks. Hear me out. Their relationship maintained its intensity because of the rivalry. It motivated their respective personal growths, it pushed them further, and it tied them closer together. And it was magnificent. What we see here is that Katsuki is still driven by the will to compete, but Izuku isn't. He's a teacher now, he's got lives to change, he can't be bothered with competition and numbers. While Deku was building his new identity and new life, Kacchan was still hung up on the past: He was collecting funds for the suit to get Deku back into the game, he was rejecting sidekicks who didn't spark the same joy in him, and he was slowly dropping in the charts because he didn't have Deku to push him to try (also something about his personality, I'll just let it slide). I think in this chapter we kind of see him finally accept it. He doesn't push a hero suit on a rival and urge him on anymore, instead he forms an offer to join him as an unrelated question about if Deku's still intent on teaching. Since he says yes, Kacchan won't even bring the agency offer up; Kirishima has to translate the intention. Which is where I think Deku's answer has uncharacteristically little tact.

Does Kacchan deserve a better ending than this? ABSOLUTELY. Does the ending we get counter the character development seen so far? I don't think so. The sad reality is that people do grow up, and I see the ending we get as one possibility that reflects that. I would've also been happy with an ending where Deku keeps OFA and the boys go be gay fight crime for the rest of their lives together, but in all honesty, Deku coming a full circle back to quirklessness is more thematically satisfying to me. Mind you, none of this means that the relationship between these two isn't important to them. It just means that it was always bound to change, adapt and grow to a different direction. Kacchan's final goodbye may seem like an important moment that was completely brushed off, or you can see it as not being important because it's not a goodbye. These two men will continue to be part of each other's lives. And now I kind of want to read comfort fics about what their new relationship and domestic life would look like.

Brief togachako tangent

I said in an earlier post that I will be a togachako truther until the day I die, and I stand by that. In my book, it's already canon. Though sadly, it was also doomed. I'm a little conflicted on the whole thing. On one hand, I think Toga had a satisfying character arc, but on the other hand, we mostly just got our gays buried. Still, purely from a character perspective, I don't see her pushing Uraraka to live her life as a problem. Toga would definitely not want Uraraka to dwell on her memories and guilt. They seem to be bound together by blood now, and that won't change. Neither of them gain anything if Ochako denies herself happiness by not pursuing other relationships. Still, I understand the criticism in a narrative sense. It does come off as a queer character used as a device to push forward a comphet relationship. I just want them both to be happy.

Final thoughts: Canon is not law

I have shared my complicated thoughts and feelings on this presumed final chapter. You are obviously allowed to disagree with me, and your thoughts and feelings are just as valid as mine.

I think it's important to remember that you don't have to treat canon as law. The canonicity of something has never dictated how you should interact with the media. Obviously the author making something canon has a bearing on their story, but that's just what it is. It's their story. Which means that we don't have any say in what they decide to do with it, but they also have no say in how we make their story our own. If the ending is left open, it's left open for a reason. You get to interpret what happens next based on your reading of the story.

So please go create fan content where Izuku keeps his powers and hero status and where he keeps his rivalry alive, or write a fanfic about his life as a teacher. Go explore how the thing with Uraraka develops (I trust that many of you would do a better job than Horikoshi), or ignore that part completely. Write about Uraraka's blood bond with Toga, maybe their relationship is still worth exploring post-mortem. Hell, make it a polyship between the girls and Deku. And there are so many things about Deku and Bakugou's relationship as adults that I'd read about and see fanart of, whether or not you take my interpretation of them into account.

[demonslayerunhinged]

Hello!! I saw your recent post and I thought it was really interesting :3 would you mind going a little more into depth about your opinions?

Hello anon! If you're referring to the sexualization post, then sure! Loooooooong answer incoming! Also, I'm going to be using 'You' a lot, just know I'm not referring to you anon but to the imaginary morality police I'm arguing with in my head. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I'm writing an essay about this and I will release it, swearsies! But lemme add some tidbits from it here.

Lemme start by saying that I understand that there's a problem with how female characters are portrayed in anime and manga but in my honest opinion right now sexualization isn't really a major issue when it comes to female characters especially the ones in other popular anime/manga series like My Hero Academia(kinda), Mob Psycho 100, Jujutsu Kaisen(🙄), Attack on Titan, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, One Punch Man, Tokyo Ghoul, Chainsaw Man, hell even One Piece!

People just throw around the word without knowing what sexualization actually is. So here's a definition:

Sexualization in media is when a character is portrayed as a sexual object and nothing more. The goal of their existence is to titillate the (male) audience. So because of that they hold no relevance, no character growth, no interesting personalities and are essentially stripped of their humanity. They're literally just objects for consumption.

A perfect example is Tamaki Kotatsu from Fire Force, who conveniently has the Lucky Lewd curse where she loses her clothes regardless of the situation. We're introduced to her boobs and the MC Shinra ogling them-who unintentionally gropes her in the next scene-before we get introduced to her as a person.

This is the first of many, many, MANY instances of her 'lucky lewd' curse. There's even not one, but two whole episodes dedicated to the various ways she'll lose her clothes when fighting enemies.

Even in her character defining arc where we get to see more of her backstory and where she is put in a life-threatening situation, her humanity is still denied and is she placed in this sexually suggestive position.

And when she is saved by Shinra because of course she is, the lucky lewd activated, and he crashes into her boobs for no reason and spends a good amount of time ogling her torn outfit I wish I was joking.

This is a serious situation btw. Like she was deadass just about to be killed. Even when she begs for mercy as one of the characters that she sees as an older brother figure attacks her so viciously it leaves her bloody and bruised that she begs for someone to save her, the camera focuses on her lips and portrays her pleads for help in an erotic light.

This was supposed to be her arc that would've not only developed her as a character but allowed us to gain more insight into her compelling backstory but no, instead she got to be a sexual object to be ogled by Shinra and the audience, even during her dire moments when she was brutalized she couldn't even have the chance to be portrayed with basic humanity as a human being. Her arc ended up being more about Shinra that it was about her. I mean, she can't even catch a break in the official art 😭.

This is what actual sexualization of a character looks like, now lets compare this to the 'sexualized' characters in KnY.

Mitsuri

The morality police like to point out her boobs bouncing, running scene and her bath scene as proof of her sexualization, but I disagree. Firstly, Mitsuri wasn't the only one that got a bath scene, Genya and Tanjiro got one too where we saw Tanjiro's bare ass on screen!

Second the running scene was gratuitous yes, but she's never groped, she's never ogled, in fact Tanjiro was more worried about her breasts spilling out than how she was dressed, and the moment was done over in like seconds, the show moves on to establish a character defining trait; her love of food. Already we see that she's humanized, we see her likes and her complaints about being ignored. There are no comments on her body and no other lingering shots of her boobs and she most definitely isn't put in sus positions like this

As for her uniform, I dunno maybe it's because I personally like wearing skimpy clothes because of sensory issues, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Her miniskirt makes sense because her fighting style relies heavily on acrobatics and flexibility, try doing acrobatics in an Amish-length skirt and let me know when you eventually eat shit and end up with a broken neck. Acrobatics are mostly done in either leotards or skintight costumes, and I don't think those were popular in Taisho Japan.

Like yea even though male gymnasts typically wear trousers so y'know their cock and balls don't slip out, a lot of them just wear short shorts.

Then her boob window, honestly come off it. Yea, when I first saw her I didn't like it, but that was because I was scared that she was going to be another fanservice character, but after reading the manga and Gaiden, it doesn't bother me anymore. I've seen some comments such as 'oh her breasts might spill out' and all, but they never do though. Do people forget that she's a fictional, 2D character???!!! Her boobs won't spill out unless the animators want it to.

We also got an explanation for the design; it was the work of the pervy designer Kakushi who's known rightfully as Scum Glasses, and Mitsuri though embarrassed just couldn't bring herself to burn or discard it, which tells us about her character and how she cherishes the hard work of others, no matter how pervy their intentions are.

None of our main characters shame her for it, even ogle her or make sexual comments about her body. Shinobu shames Scum Glasses and offers her matches to burn it, Sanemi's reaction to her embarrassment shows that he doesn't see it as a big deal and when it interfered with the wellbeing of the female slayers, his anger was directed at Scum Glasses, not the slayers.

Even Giyuu's comment in the Corps Records reads more like he's concerned for her safety, and the fact that she doesn't have scars despite her uniform is honestly impressive and a testament to her power as a Hashira.

She's one of the kindest (and frankly realest)characters in KnY-second only to Tanjiro. She was practically the only one against Tanjiro and Nezuko getting executed or punished, she accepted Nezuko without hesitation despite being a demon and treated her like a little sister, she didn't shame Genya for eating demons, in fact I don't think she noticed because all she saw was her junior who needed help.

She's not a 'sexualized female character', she's Mitsuri Kanroji. Who was literally rejected by the world for being different but instead of being bitter chose to use her literal strength to help people, who brings comfort to others with her smile and personality despite seeing so much loss and devastation, who fights and protects not out of spite or revenge or heritage but out of love and duty.

But yea sure, let's focus on her inconsequential uniform and her 10-second bath scene 🙄.

Nezuko and Daki

The main point of contention about Nezuko and Daki's 'sexualization' is because they're 'minors' which is so dumb and a whole other topic, but let's focus on their clothes. I really don't understand the complaints about Nezuko, because the majority of the time when she's not fighting she's dressed in her regular, 'modest' kimono.

What about when she's in demon mode? Oh! Her thighs are exposed when she's fighting? Yes, that tends to happen when you wear fucking skirts. Oh! Her clothes don't fit when she grows twice her size? You mean just like how the Hulk loses majority of his clothes when he grows too? Shocking that her clothes don't grow with her when she's not a fully formed demon. Shocking, I tell you!

Same with Mitsuri, there are no lingering shots of her boobs or her body because the main action is focused on her kicking ass. Go look at comments on anime sites in the episodes where she grows in size and fights, how many of them actually mention her body as opposed to her being kick-ass. The majority of Nezuko simps are simping over her as a moe character rather than a sex object. The most popular image of Nezuko is her shrunken form when she was running away from Kanao as it should because that scene was cute and funny as fuck.

For Daki, it's different, because yea she's wearing super revealing clothing, but here's my take; I don't see anything wrong with Daki's clothing. I'm sorry, but to me her outfit is iconic.

Her character design radiates power and intimidation to me rather than sexual object, and as with Nezuko and Mitsuri, despite her outfit, she never has any lingering shots on her boobs or placed in positions where she's groped and ogled, and she's never shamed by any of the characters because they're too busy trying not to get themselves killed. when I see her I'm not thinking 'heh, I can see her boobs', I'm fearing for my life and hoping she doesn't eat me! I mean look how terrifying she is in this shot.

Also, just like Mitsuri and Nezuko her humanity is never denied, when she had her head cut off by Tengen there were no suggestive shots of her body, in fact more people were shocked at her sudden cries which showed how young she was.

When she and Gyutaro are defeated, it's not portrayed in a sexually suggestive or erotic way, we're not made to see some femme fatale seductress, we're made to see an angry, bitter but ultimately hurt little girl who is spiteful at the world that rejected and abandoned her and her brother.

We see how she's had to survive, how she was brutalized and burnt for just standing up to her brother which in hindsight makes her reaction to Nezuko setting her on fire all the more heartbreaking. We see a girl who rejects 'heaven' if it means that she will be separated from her brother - the only person who was ever there for her, took care of her, comforted her and made her feel safe in a world that made them feel so rejected and so alone, the person who told her this:

If you're given all this character and backstory and all you choose to focus on is how she's dressed, then you need to check yourself and look inwards because you're the one with the problem.

The truth is, female characters are going to be sexualized regardless of what they wear, y'know just like women in real life, so how about we instead focus on making sure that they have relevance in the story, relatable backstories, character growth, rich personalities, and most of all humanity.

Sorry for the long answer anon but I hope this is okay for you, I would still post the full essay on Mitsuri eventually. Thanks for your question! ❤❤❤

[roll-for-gaslight]

I'm not sure exactly how to put my thoughts into words so pardon my rambling but I'm thinking about how Kristen, Adaine, and Fig's character growth all stems from growing into a person they always could have been in a better situation. Also, it's interesting the way the bad kids seem to bring out these parts of each other because they're healing!

Like I know it was a kind of jokey moment but Adaine's little "Fabian hit me!!!!!" versus her insistence on being independent to the point of endangering her mental and physical wellbeing! She grew up so independent, unable to ask for help because of the risk of being ridiculed. She never asks for help and holds herself to an incredibly high standard. But that's not how her childhood should have ideally gone! She was supposed to have a big sister to tattle on and fight with, she was supposed to be taken care of! The BKs make her feel safe and cared for in a way her family never did, so her character development very much means slipping into the "little sister" position she was always supposed to occupy.

Fig pushed down her natural and newly-forming personality when the very foundation of her identity changed. She threw herself so wholly and entirely into her new aesthetic and vibe and vehemently denied the version of her that came before. Now she's growing to accept herself at all stages of her life, to a version of herself that brings in the parts of both her childhood and post-tiefling personalities that she likes and forms something new that makes her comfortable.

For Kristen, losing her religion made her lose a sense of identity. Without her parents to take care of her or her brothers for her to take care of, she was suddenly accountable to absolutely no one. She has Jawbone and Sandralynn, technically, but from what we've seen neither of them actually parent her a lot. So, she leaned hard into doing whatever she wanted, living wildly, engaging in all the things she never got to before, living a life as far away from her childhood as possible, and that's reflected in her clerical work. She loves Cassandra and wants her to thrive, but hates that what that means has a lot of overlap with what it meant to be Helio's Chosen. Like the daily prayer, the proselytizing, it reminds her too much of the things she was raised to do for Helio, and the fact that Cassandra needs Kristen to take care of her makes her accountable to someone in a way that she really wasn't for a while. Now that she's in the back half of her character arc, trying to bring Cassandra back and working hard for it, she's growing a little more responsible. There have been a lot of good moments this season where she's tried to help other people outside of combat-necessary healing, such as giving Lydia Barkrock the help action and the way she reacts after Fabian attacks Adaine (which I know is technically "combat-necessary healing" but how it happened came across as very Big Sister, like pulling the crayon out of her brother's nose in the first episode, especially with how it was immediately followed not with a bit like everyone else but with "oh no fabian got possessed I hope he's okay!!!! poor fabian!!!!!"

[averysherwood]

Lumity: wasted potential of the show

Lumity isn't as bad as Huntlow. They were planned since the beginning, they had time for development, even if it was a bit rushed. But they still have writing problems that we should address:

1. Amity's character almost dissapeared. During first season she was the most interesting character out of all, despite the fact that her arc was rushed and involved retcone. But after her redemption, she turned into sweet awkward nerdy girl. It's not realistic in any way to become completely different person in a couple of months, and it also made her boring. She's the second of three ex-villians who got the same new characterisation, which is bad by itself, but she also lost her special chemistry with Luz which we saw in Grom episode. This episode was Lumity's peak you can't deny it

2. Amity is just Luz's gf and nothing more. She has nothing to wish except being with Luz and seeing her being happy. No ambitions, no goals, no new friends. Just Luz. She thinks only about her, she talks only about her, she does everything only when it's about Luz. Only exception is Reaching Out, but it was also turned into Luz's thing. As much as I hate Huntlow, Hunter at least had something except love for Willow. It's bad not only because it makes Lumity a copy of awful mlw couple trope, it also doesn't show hurmful tendency (dependence on a partner and being obsessed with them) as something bad.

3. Lumity made Luz look bad. You know, dating your first friend's ex bestie and ex main bully is kinda messed up. It wouldn't be that problematic if Willow and Amity had already become friends again, but it's not what we've got.

4. Mistrust between Luz and Amity. I agree that the reason is that Luz is a bully victim and Amity reacted hurshly several times when Luz did something wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that it shows another hurmful idea that good partner has to forgive every bad thing and in the wrong for being offended. This moment of Amity would be cute if it appeared ones and clearly showed that she has changed and now she's much more patient with Luz. But in canon, Amity just allows Luz to treat herself like shit bu lying to her (and not only her) over and over again. And Luz lying three times (even if lie about Belos is justified) about things that are important for their shared future and for Amity's safety don't paint her in a good light. There's a line between not being too hursh to partner when they did something wrong and being a doormat for a partner because you were wrong in the past.

5. Imbalance in the effort invested in the relationship. As it is clear from my points that I made earlier, Luz is everything to Amity, while Amity for Luz is just a girlfriend. Amity's doing everything for Luz (which is not good), while Luz isn't even prioritize saving Amity over just being with Eda. In season three they barely interact at all. And now it isn't about Luz being the wrong one: it wasn't the right time for cute couple stuff. Actually, if you think about it, Luz's attitude towards Amity is much healthier. It's just too miserable to see Amity being Luz's loyal puppy who buried all her goals and ambitions, while Luz treating Amity like she treats other friends.

In conclusion, I don't say that they had to be like catr*dora or stol*z, no way. Healthy relationship should be portrayed in media, especially for kids. But there's the difference between being called healthy and being actually healthy. Lumity isn't abusive, isn't even toxic, it's just not a relationship goal. In the ideal world, their flaws should've been addressed and resolved in the show, so they can actually become healthy couple.

[dollypopup]

People who are saying 'it's so sad/annoying that Eloise never realized Penelope was in love with Colin!' and then using that to villify her and claim she was a bad friend to Penelope are. . .so missing the point.

WE know because we see much of the show through Penelope's eyes. Debling knew because Cressida told him. Cressida knew because she had a vested interest in that being the narrative. Violet knew because Colin very obviously asked her about friendship and love, and has a grand total of ONE woman he could have been talking about.

It is not on Eloise to assume truths about Penelope.

Read that again.

It is NOT on Eloise to assume truths about Penelope!

In the same way it was not on COLIN to assume Pen had a crush on him. The thing about trust is that you HOPE that the person you care about will open up to you, and in fact, it is GOOD that Eloise didn't notice. It doesn't mean she was a bad friend, or self centered, but rather that she was of the belief that her friend would be open with her.

That's not unreasonable of her.

How is Eloise meant to listen to a fact that is never voiced, and in fact, is actively denied?

Eloise asked Penelope in Season 2 if she would ever know what it was like to have a crush on someone, the way she had on Theo. Penelope told her STRAIGHT UP "no, I wouldn't know". What did you want Eloise to do? Accuse Penelope of being a liar and then proclaim she was clearly in love with her brother?

Same with Lady Whistledown- Penelope assured multiple times she wasn't LW to Eloise because when Eloise was talking about her, and having theories, and going on a detective chase about it, Penelope never told her she was LW.

The fact that Eloise HAD to assume these things about Penelope was an indication the friendship had problems. And these problems are tied up in Penelope's arc: coming into the light and living her authenticity unapologetically. Because she kept so much close to the chest for so long. 'Eloise didn't listen'. Penelope never SAID ANYTHING about it for her to listen TO.

Now, does that mean Eloise is blameless and saintly and good? No. That would be lame and boring and would do her a disservice in being a complex, interesting female character. The way near all the women in this show are. The truth is that BOTH Eloise AND Penelope were wrapped up in the immediacy of their own lives, and had different goals and interests from one another. In many ways, Eloise and Penelope were together by proximity, rather than aligned in purpose.

But also. . .we are ALL more invested in our own lives than those of our friends. We care for our friends, yes, but we live our own lives first and foremost. And when we have friendships, we trust that they will talk to us about their lives, their truths, their passions, and their hopes and that we will celebrate such with them. Whilst Eloise has ignored Penelope at times, Penelope has also ignored Eloise. Eloise has assumed Penelope to have the same interests in feminism and not in marriage as she does, but Penelope does not talk to her otherwise until they have a fight about it.

It explodes out of her. Comes out, almost against her will.

They have issues communicating. That's relatable.

But people don't want to see the relatability of these women. They want to compare them and pit them against each other, instead of trying to understand BOTH of them.

Listen, the truth is that this fandom has a misogyny problem. We only want to empathize with the woman we see as the most relatable for our own viewing, and any other woman who is in any way contesting their immediate happiness is turned into a villain. In fact, in Polin, it's extended to ANYONE who has done Penelope any form of disservice ever, as if tension and conflict isn't what drives a narrative.

Colin said one thing that was hurtful to Pen? Burn him at the stake. Eloise is hurt by Penelope's secrecy? Well, she should have listened more, and fuck her, she was a bad friend. Marina told Penelope to butt out of her relationship and to stay in her lane? She's evil and cruel and treated Pen horribly. Penelope never did anything wrong, everyone else is the problem.

This denies Penelope her own accountability, her own narrative of growth, firstly,

But secondly, ALL the women in this show have compelling reasons for acting the way they do. Not just the one you like the most.

I see people talking about how they feel so bad for Penelope, that she has undergone so much and has no one to really confide in, that she feels she has no friend with which to unburden herself with: but the same is true for Eloise. She had no one to talk to about the pain and grief she experienced at the end of Season 2, and kept mum about Penelope's identity as LW all throughout. The same was true for Marina, who had been Otherized from the moment she stepped into the ton, and had been physically and emotionally abused by her own family as she faced down a future of potential misery. Why can you see and sympathize from one character's perspective and yet not the other? Why is it okay to proclaim one a villain, and the other an innocent?

If you can feel empathy for Penelope, you better be ready to feel it for Eloise, for Cressida, for Marina, for Kate and Edwina, because ALL these women underwent some very painful circumstances in their lives, and all of them made mistakes that resulted in other people getting hurt. They have all been hero in their own story, and the antagonist in another. As we all are.

How ironic to see 'well, Eloise is terrible because she's' not seeing it from HER perspective!'

when we are doing the same

[valkyriestan]

The fact that e|riels seem to not even acknowledge that gwynriel could be a thing simply astounds me. They keep trying to ignore the BC which is the first time we even get into Az’d head. Okay let’s say Elriel is endgame so what is the point of gwyn even being given that sort of page time in Az’s bonus chapter? Even without gwyn if SJM wanted to explore elriel there is enough conflict and angst that is already set up. We have elain being mated to lucien, the fact that Rhys basically forbades it (their oh so forbidden love trope which would all be over minute Elain makes her choice and rejects her mate and of course lucien will never force her to be with him) but even then there is enough angst and conflict built up for elriel with having to deal with the rejection or what az might feel about Elain being mated to another and the political ramifications of it all and also the fact that az and mor thing is still unresolved, so with all of this why would gwyn get page time in his bc if she is just a red herring? Don’t we already have unresolved issues with lucien and mor? Okay let’s say it is all just friendly (which reading the text doesn’t give that vibe whatsoever) what do gwyn or Azriel contribute to each other’s story (as friends?). She started her healing journey with her valkyries, he calls her hardly a friend (which Elriels like to be loud about) and Azriel has so many other ppl he is close to and if Sarah went down the elriel route then they’ll heal together, so what do they even bring to each other’s story to warrant page time in az’s pov. They have a brief history sure but why would a friendship angle even be set for them? As elriels like to say gwyn is just a side character and that’s it. Okay let’s say she is an evil light singer - there are so many things wrong with this theory. First off the fact that nesta finds her healing through her friendship with the valkyries, gwyn is literally an SA survivor who has gone through shit, Sarah loves valkyries and she was inspired through her own friendship, the fact that she has literally said any character associated with music can’t be evil because she loves music and the biggest WHY WOULD WE EVEN NEED AN EVIL LIGHTSINGER when you literally have other strong villains? Why would elriel even need an evil light singer for plot when they literally have so much conflict and other villains to fight already? Why would Sarah highlight gwynriels reactions to each other in ACOSF? Why do his shadows behave differently around her? If she is just a side character why is there so much to know about her? Her heritage, her powers etc? What would she bring to az’s story if she is not a villain or an unnecessary red herring unless she is his love interest of course and currently he is still pining (if you could call it that) for Elain so unless she is his end game there is no point to link gwyn with Azriel (which Sarah has no matter how much you deny it). That page time could have been easily given to mor (with things that are still unresolved between them) or emerie - who might be connected to the Illyrian plot instead of gwyn. Sarah is literally setting gwyn up for her own story with az the same way she has set up lucien with all his plots and we will get his story with Elain. Like if rejection is what she wanted to explore why Lucien (when he already lost someone who thought was his mate?)? Why has she not even explored the mating bond yet? He is literally a good guy so why should a well written MMC be rejected when they haven’t even explored the bond, he literally has done no wrong to Elain, as much as there has been buildup for Elriel there has been buildup for elucien as well. Both Elain and lucien have their own story arcs and for Elain to reject without any actual explanation as to why or without exploring the bond would just be bad writing and super disappointing. (Not to mention the fact that there have been subtle moments where we have seen Elain and lucien care about the other).

[hollowtones]

what'd you think about jade shadows?

I put it under a read-more because I don't know how to talk about this without talking about spoiler stuff. The tl;dr is "I liked it but I wish there was a little bit more."

One of the things I didn't like isn't even really part of the quest itself, but I saw a mutual bring it up a few days ago & it's been on my mind since: it feels a little odd to have a content warning before your sidequest, and then not give you any way to skip the quest if it's content you don't think you'd be able to handle. Especially given there's a whole event & rewards that only unlock afterwards!!

OK on to the contents of the quest itself. There's a lot of themes of love and connection and empathy in the face of systemic cruelty or indifference, in this game in general, and a lot of how that manifests is stories about characters fighting for self-determination and agency (the Ostrons trying to stay free of the Grineer, the Solaris trying to destroy the systems that keep them in debt & deny them bodily autonomy, Umbra, the Tenno, the Lotus, etc etc).

I think it's interesting to try and explore a tragedy where we aren't able to help someone in time, where the powers that be have brutalized someone and we as individuals aren't able to get there in the nick of time & help them claw their agency back. I think it's an interesting thematic & emotional through-line (with very strong parallels to Ordis... very smart choice to make him the event vendor / narrator, I'm feasting good on all the new dialogue LOL), and I think there have been enough well-written woman characters in the game that don't get written out or killed for the sake of some man's tragedy or growth that I don't immediately roll my eyes about them trying a So Sad The Woman Dies story.

I do also think this would have hit harder if we got more information about Jade herself!! I realize "this woman broke a law and was completely dehumanized / made into a Thing by the empire, stripping her of herself to suit their ends" is Kind Of The Point, and they make enough of a fuss about "wow there's a lot that's redacted about her history, huh!" that I assume this is a plot thread they're leaving hanging for later. But I feel like the big moment would have resonated better if they gave us a little more info to establish this character, other than "she was heterosexual" and "the Orokin were fucked up, don't forget" haha.

(I do find it funny that the storyline about Ballas, who got Divorced So Badly that he Caused Nearly All Of Today's Problems, is all wrapped up, but the story keeps going "no no, don't worry, there's still plenty of opportunity to remind you how fucked the Orokin were." Here's these two people that broke some insipid law about conceiving a child & so their bosses and leaders broke their brains and turned them into bio-weapon lapdogs as punishment. Every time they go "BTW Something Was Deeply Wrong With The Orokin & We Still Feel The Aftershock Of That Today" I clap my hands like a seal.)

Warframe Babies Are Born!!!!! This little tyke is fuckin weird. What's their problem. I think it's weird and cool. I don't really feel much about "this character is a parent now!" type of storylines. (I did pop off when Stalker got to do his shithead honourable samurai defending a child with one arm thing. I'm a sucker for that & they made it coooooool. It feels like they're setting up some kind of "Lone Wolf and Cub" situation. The scythe being juiced up with BabysPower was also funny.) The baby thing is neat to me from the perspective of, like... This is something weird and new that's never happened before in this universe. That's exciting and kind of scary! I'm interested to see where they go with that. (Presumably in a year or two. Very funny to drop this on us when a completely different major story arc is right around the corner with 1999.)

Gianni's delivery was fuckin killer. I'm excited for whatever next arc they do with Stalker if it means they're gonna pay my boy to grunt and yell and scream more. It feels very strange to be acquainted with two people who've done voice acting in "Warframe" now. Me next? ^_^

I like our new Corpus weirdo. I hope she comes back. Fun to get more stuff with the Sisters of Parvos & with Mr. Granum himself. But I liked her a lot. It got a fuckin laugh out of me to have her through all the quest excited about her big promotion that she's going to get & resolving that with "Is that a fuckin baby??? Fuuuuuck! They don't pay me enough to shoot a baby with a gatling gun!" I wish her ending scene was a little more than just stoically standing aside but literally anything else I can think of feels way too cheesy or on-the-nose.

The facial animations on the Operator were really fuckin weird. I just remembered that. I thought that was just a thing on my end but I watched someone else play & the faces looked weird for them too.

Hunhow's a good inclusion. I like him seeing the Stalker stewing in his own misery because he hates the only people that could offer him help & going "aw man, c'mon buster, don't be like me now." I like his signature that he puts in his emails. I like that he's still an emotionally constipated weirdo that hates us but is still endeared to us in some way. (They make nods to The New Strange in his ending email, which makes sense given that this also feels like a quest setting up More Weird Shit In The Future, but I do get a laugh that it also reads as "JADE WAS PREGNANT? OKAY... WELL. DON'T FORGET THAT I HAVE A WOMB TOO, KID." Thanks Grandpa. Love you too Grandpa. Thanks for the sweeties Grandpa.)

The event quest feels like a nice bow on top. I like the parallels between Jade and Ordis. Wanting to afford her the dignity in death he could never be given. Acknowledgement of Ordan Karris is fun!!! (The line about him being conflicted with the thought of Granum un-cephalon'ing him has me rubbing my hands together.) I'm excited that we're getting so much of Parvos Granum lately. What a shit head. It's funny to see him so hyped up about Ordan. "Duuuude! Your history's famous killer!! That's awesome? Do you wanna work for me? C'monnnnn we both hate the legacy of the Orokin. Wouldn't it be awesome if MY rule was the one dehumanizing you and wielding you as a weapon instead?" This is something they've been establishing as early as "Parvos and Ballas in bed with one another doing shady back-room deals over a Warframe bodyguard and specter particle research" but it's fun whenever they sow the seeds of Parvos being so much like the Orokin he hated.

I wrote more than I thought I was going to!!! I like the thematic through-line idea of this quest but I wish they executed on it better. I like the stuff this is presumably establishing for the future. I really like the event quest as... not quite an epilogue, I guess, but as an addition. Other than that I thought it was okay! I wasn't expecting anywhere near the level of Whispers in the Walls, but that quest being such a high bar makes a "pretty okay" quest stick out to me a little, haha.

[fablefrogg]

Will Byers Standing Up for El Doesn't Make Sense (From a Character/Narrative Standpoint)

Will Byers standing up for El from her bullies in Lenora doesn't make sense from both a character and a narrative standpoint.

First off, I truly think that if Will had stood up for her, he would have also been targeted and bullied. Look at what happened when the teacher jumped in to help El. That didn't solve anything; it only made the bullies more infuriated to the point that they came up with an elaborate plan to humiliate El at a public place (and with a lot of people that went along with this plan like the DJ).

I'm not saying that standing up to your bullies is ultimately pointless and that you should keep your head down in the hopes of them stopping because they very likely won't.

But we have to take into account Will's character. He has dealt with bullying for most of his life (and for his sexuality which could end in the very real possibility of him being hate-crimed since this was the 80s). On top of that, he has trauma from having to survive in the Upside Down and from being possessed one of its creatures, resulting in him indirectly killing the military soldiers in S2 when he is used as a spy. It's understandable why he wants to keep his head down.

El also seems to be in denial about the situation, considering that she lied to Mike about Angela being her friend, denied Will's claims when he points this out, and then tells Angela (even after the milkshake debacle) to tell Mike that they're actually friends.

Will isn't a fighter like Mike. He helps El in his own way by consoling her even though she pushes him away, knowing that she needs verbal reassurance (a possible parallel to El needing Mike to verbally say that he loves her), and offers to help her put her project back together. We must also remember that the one time he tried standing up for himself was to the Mind Flayer in S2 and he ended up getting possessed (while it was inevitable, it shows that standing up for oneself = negative results in Will's mind).

I don't personally believe that by not standing up for her, he has some hidden resentment against El because she's with the person he loves. Will has been on El's side the whole time; he just does it subtly. He lies to the police that what El did was an accident, he paces back and forth while ranting to Mike that Hawkins wouldn't be standing without her, forcefully tells the receptionist at the juvenile center that they're her family ergo let them see her, and even gets noticeably angry at Mike, the person he's in love with, for his distasteful comment at El at the dinner table.

I acknowledge that it would be super interesting to see a darker side to Will, but I don't think this is it. In S2, when he encounters the baby Demogorgon in the bathroom, he has good reason to kill it considering his trauma from the Upside Down. Instead, he reassures the Demogorgon, saying that he won't hurt it. If Will can offer empathy to a literal monster that comes from a source of trauma, there is no way in hell that he would hurt El, even if he did harbor feelings of resentment.

From a narrative standpoint, I'd say El being bullied is necessary to her arc and that Will stepping in would reduce the impact of that arc and her development. Her being bullied is a trigger event to her physical assault on Angela, confronting her with the one of the conflicts she's been internally fighting: she believes that she's a monster even without her abilities. It also serves as a catalyst and a parallel when she remembers the similar bullying she's experienced in the lab. Because Will didn't interfere, it makes El's development from coming out the other side the more powerful.

Additionally, Will supporting El in other ways other than standing up to the main source of her bullying makes sense with his own arc. Since the Duffers have said he will be vital in S5, that tells me that he needs to learn to stand up to fight, especially when they're faced against the Big Bad. He has to learn to stop hiding (even though that's what he does best) and learn to stand up not just for other people, but for himself, and once he accomplishes this, he'll come out confident and wiser.

[birdbrainedboy]

I’m obsessed with this show and fear a hyperfixation anyways here are my thoughts on every character in the show

Edwin Paine: forever my favorite, even back before the show when I read the comics! I think it’s funny that basically every man in the show wants him? I’m intrigued by his character arc throughout the story regarding his sexuality as despite dying in 1916, he seems to have had time to slowly become more accepting of gay people (I’m guessing in part due to Charles, who is pansexual), to the point where there’s only mild internalized homophobia if at all, which just exhibits itself in him denying any possible feelings for Monty. I love how face-value and logical he is while still being a sweetheart

Charles Rowland: he has a pan flag pin on his jacket which confuses me bc can ghosts only wear clothes they would’ve worn when they were alive, or how do ghost clothes work? Because he died in 1989 and I’m near positive he didn’t wear that pin back there. Anyways I do love him but I wonder about some design choices, like the one earring (not sure why it just kinda annoys me). That was more a rant abt his design than his character, which I have nothing notable to say abt since I LOVE HIM he’s so real

Crystal Palace: sometimes she was a bit annoying the way she was trying way too hard to pry into everyone’s lives, but honestly that was just momentary annoyance since nothing could make me hate her. I love how her past was slowly revealed (as someone who already knew it from the comics) and how she came to terms with the person she used to be vs the person she is now. She’s so cool!

David the demon: honestly kind of caught me off guard at first bc the person I’m dating is named David but I actually enjoyed his character. LOVED when Crystal dealt with him in the end. He was very interesting

Niko Sasaki: I love Niko, but I have some problems with her character. First of all, I feel like ditsy anime-loving cutesy Asian girl with dyed hair is a weirdly common trope? But whatever my main issue is that it feels like characters who normalize the fetishization of gay men are so common. Like if Niko had been a guy obsessed with lesbian manga evb would be weirded out, so why is it different? If we ignore all of this tho I absolutely adore her and I’m actually praying she’s in the next season bc she was one of my favorites (esp her relationship w Edwin)

Jenny: She is so hot and cool and funny I’m in love with her

Esther: oh my god words cannot come close to describing how much I love her character. She felt powerless and weak in the past and now she’s become obsessed with making sure nobody has that power over her ever again. She was so fun and I loved her attitude! I’m sure she won’t show up next season, as she was the main antagonist of s1, and while I love her, I kind of hope she doesn’t since I think her arc was finished.

Monty: His personality was like 2020 “soft boy” who acts nice and dumb but is lowkey a manipulator. So obviously this kind of made me like ☠️ bc why is he acting like that… but I still love him to bits because he’s just a crow guys he didn’t ask to be human,, Anyways yeah his personality annoys me but also I love him so much so? It’s confusing. ITS COMPLICATED. I will cry if he’s not in s2

Kingham and Litty: I honestly thought they were annoying but I can’t lie they were so fucking funny. Every time they were on screen I laughed.

Cat King: oh my god. He is so camp. I love him. There’s honestly not much to say he is simply iconic. Love how he’s afraid to be alone so chases after other people, he’s so real AGHH I love him

Night Nurse: Ruth Connell the woman you are… 😍 she reminds me of Muriel from Good Omens, in a way, and I love her! I really hope we get to see more of her in relation to the guy in the fish, and see her get to better understand human emotions and why they choose to cling onto the human world rather than pass on!

[miss-sweetea-pie]

I just saw an interesting maiko post. I didn’t want to comment or reblog because I figured that person didn’t want to have a discord considering the tags and some times tumblr recommended things to you. I probably wasn’t meant to see it honestly, But now I want to talk about it.

It was about how Zuko and Mai are just teenagers who don’t understand each other sometimes and then fail to communicate.

Also about how Mai’s emotionless trait collides with Zuko’s need for emotional validation and Zuko’s controlling possessiveness collides with Mai’s need for freedom. But they care for each other that doesn’t make them a bad couple, and Mai is not a bad girlfriend.

Honestly it a really good way to frame the relationship. I would also call it incompatible, maybe even toxic? it doesn’t make them bad people, but sometimes people do bring out the worst in you. Technically, this is true for Zuko, considering he went back to the fire nation, and he started dating Mai at the same time. Mai is the first person we see him speaking to after betraying his uncle and the show wants us to know he made the wrong choice. Mai is use as a narrative tool for Zuko’s lack of support in the fire nation,he’s miserable when he goes back home, and the one person, you would think he could connect with, his girlfriend, is cold and emotionally withdrawn. The show used Maiko to explore the the emptiness of being home in the fire nation, the empty promises of fire nation glory he been chasing and it doesn’t resonate with him anymore, also the impossible standard of gaining conditional love. (Sorry but Maiko is Zuko centric so it does makes Mai hard to read at best and abusive at worst)

I don’t deny that they care about each other in someway they’ve known each other since they were children, it’s safe and comfortable. but love is not enough. Honestly most toxic relationship in irl continue because they love each but they are not good for one other. Zuko and Mai they don’t understand each other and it seems like they don’t really want to understand each other. That’s the problem. (Mai mostly).

Maiko is really just a toxic cycle of their needs not being met

This scene where Zuko want to talk about his feeing and open up to her

Mai: *yawn* I just asked if you were cold not for your whole life story.

(Not going to lie, that was funny but it’s still a very dismissive thing to say, especially to your partner.)

Zuko is actually a little bit more sympathetic when she tells her “sob story” he didn’t yawn

Zuko: I like when you express yourself.

(her being off and on with her anger. Is like a metaphor for him being in the fire nation, trying to make something work and it’s not working. Constantly feeling like he said or does the wrong thing)

and It just bubbles over until they finally blew up

Zuko’s possessiveness is a reaction to after he feels like he has done all sorts of stuff to please her. it’s zuko reaching his breaking point. Boy is really insecure in this relationship because the feed back he gets from her is contempt. Sure we could argue and say that doesn’t make mai a bad girl friend maybe this is just her sense of humor or personality. well, it doesn’t mesh well with Zuko therefore, they are incompatible, and a bad couple with each other. 

( also Zuko is not nice here that’s kind of the point he hads regressed  in his character arc so to speak.)

and then they get back together by making out.

Sure she says she cares but why when did she actually show it? Actions speak louder than words! We never get a moment where Mai gets it and really understands him.

[pynkhues]

A lot of people think Louis' persona during his "Prince of Iberville" years is not his authentic self and completely OOC. And subsequently that he returns to it with Armand as a coping mechanism instead due to transactional nature of that relationship (Louis starting his "companionship" with Armand as a way to shield Claudia. @dhampirdulac on twt has a few threads on the topic).

Can we hear your thoughts on this? I've seen you mention in the tags that you have other views.

...did Louis start his companionship with Armand as a way to shield Claudia? I don't know if I agree with that at all, rather I interpret it as coming back to what Claudia says to him in 2.02 which is that he doesn't know who he is without Lestat and outside of her. He's spent the last three episodes trying to pursue photography and getting very passionately interested in art and has just that episode been shut down by a gallery owner who won't stage his work.

He makes excuses with Dreamstat - that he can't sit down with a subject because he'll eat them (not true, he worked with mortals for years at The Azaelia, and made genuine, albeit brief, mortal connections in the shelters of Eastern Europe without eating them), the lens is dirty, he's impatient - the latter two probably are true, but that's the thing about art, right? Being a successful artist is less about talent than it is about persistence, which is hard when the creation of art requires vulnerability, and the rejection of that art can feel a rejection of the self.

Louis' seeking not just validation but identity, and Armand floundering at controlling the Coven offers Louis a way back to a part of himself. As he says it, he used to be (and proves to still be) very good at running things, and that is a part of him from before Lestat and Claudia. He holds to it as something that is true of himself. Is it all of him? No, of course not, Louis' a million things, it's what makes him interesting as a character, but he's always been professionally ambitious and I think to deny that part of him is to deny his story. His whole NOLA arc is about the fact that Louis is forced to settle for a secondclass seat at the table when what he really wants to be the head of his own table. He wants power and autonomy and freedom. What's disingenous about him in that era is that Louis has to play submissive and pander to the white men who are a fraction as intelligent, ambitious, capable as he is because it's the only way he can get his leg in.

He, as a character, wants to be respected, he wants to be seen and not just heard, but listened to. I think his relationship with art is something that's really fascinating and I could write a lot about that, but in terms of this question in particular, I think he saw art as a way forward for him and when it left him treading water, he felt crushed by it. His photography's not very good because Louis doesn't have anything to say, he doesn't have an artistic rationale, and he's deliberately been creating distance between himself and everyone around him as a means of emotional survival. How can you capture something artistically that you're refusing to engage with? It's not a coincidence that the best picture he takes is when he's trying to take one of Lestat.

Keeping things casual with Armand was, I think, partially motivated by trying to live a bohemian lifestyle, and making things official wasn't about shielding Claudia. It wasn't about Claudia at all, that's the point, as she says it. It's never about her. It was about slipping back into a job he knows he's good at to give himself a sense of identity, trying to let go of Lestat, and regain control not over Armand, but himself, and affiliate himself with power. If he's dominant over the only person who gets to have a genuine voice in the Coven, isn't that as good as having a voice of his own? And it's that that's disingenous, the idea that he'd ever be happy puppet mastering someone else - - that's not Louis' character. Louis wants to feel professionally fulfilled but he doesn't actually give a fuck about the Theatres des Vampires, and he certainly doesn't give a fuck about the Coven. In fact, he actively dislikes both.

He's tried doing something he was passionate about, has given up when he wasn't immediately good at it, and now is putting himself in a position to run a business he doesn't care about just because he knows he's good at it and it gives him some semblance of a sense of purpose again. The Theatre is not The Azaelia, and that is what I'd say leaves Louis cold.

And look, I actually do think in this early stage of their relationship, there is genuine affection between Louis and Armand too, and I think Louis likes that Armand needs him. Louis wants and needs family around him, and Claudia's pulling away while Armand's desperate to get closer, and I think there's something to Louis trying to let Lestat go that shows his companionship with Armand isn't purely transactional. He wants to move forward, but he's going backwards with pale versions of things that were once important to him - again, the Theatres is not The Azaelia, and Armand is not Lestat.

[leolithe]

Something I find really interesting about the Lotus' dialogue after the Lotus Eaters is her use of the word 'witch'.

"I was the Daughter. I became the Mother. In time, I shall be the Witch, blind once again, empty of all but wisdom." -Lotus

'Witch' has very specific connotations. Close enough to another similar word that I can't help but feel like it has to be a deliberate reference to the Triple Goddess ─ Maiden, Mother, Crone. These are figures from neopaganism that symbolizes the stages of a woman's life. Eleanor (proto-Nyx) even outright calls her the triple-faced goddess. While it definitely could just refer to Lotus, Margulis and Natah, what if we have yet to see her final form?

She was first Natah, the daughter of Hunhow. Then she assimilated Margulis' form and became the Lotus, mother to the Tenno. And now, she is to be the witch. Even urging us not to mourn should she turn into something we don't recognize. I'm very excited to see what exactly that will look like for her and how her role could potentially change. The quest made a point that the Operator will be staying behind while Drifter is the one chosen for the quest to 1999. Maybe instead of the mother-child dynamic that we've had for a decade, we'll get to see what kind of relationship she might have with the Drifter (<-copium)

I'm not much of a Greek Myth Lorehead but I've read up a bit on The Triple Goddess Hecate (who I've been told that, in Hades 2, was voiced by Amelia Tyler... who is now also voicing our dear Eleanor Nightingale. Worth mentioning cuz u just know rebb was kicking her feet and giggling at being able to pull that together). Hecate's status as a gatekeeper type figure, as i understand it, is very interesting when u apply it to the Lotus...

I'm just thinking about how meta the whole "Lotus' ascent to godhood" plot thread is. It's like a direct parallel to her voice actress' "intern to creative director" journey LMAO. It's a bloody golden opportunity and i hope they're cashing all in on Goddess!Lotus and everything it'll entail...

Not to mention lorewise and what it means for the Lotus' own arc!! To be someone constantly being pulled around by others to fulfil their own purposes, having her own wants neglected, shamed, belittled... To becoming a Witch/Crone/Gatekeeper a la Hecate -- now the one potentially capable of denying or approving others' needs and goals...? Ugh, that's so fucking JUICY. What a bloody incredible character.

Lotus mentions becoming "empty of all but wisdom", and I've seen someone theorize that she'll become even more emotionless and distant as a shield against Wally because it thrives on emotions. This theory scares me because it could very well happen... Not like Space Mom already has a history of being distant and reluctant to tell us how she's feeling... *Sniffles*...

There's also the theories about assigning Natah/Lotus/Margulis as the Maiden/Mother/Crone...

The most surface level reading would be Margulis = Maiden, Lotus = Mother, Natah = Crone, but imo when people make this read they're kinda hinging on their appearances lol. Pretty Margulis, "Ugly" Natah... Maybe even just "Good mom who can do no wrong" and "evil Sentient who led part of an assault on the Origin System".

I would like to think that it isn't that shallow, buuuut their personalities do fit the bill when u bring the "phases of a woman's life" theme to it.

Margulis' naivete, or the shattering of it, as the Maiden:

"No, Ballas, no more destruction. Maybe they're meant to save us."

"You lied to me, Ballas. You're no different than the rest of them."

Natah's headstrong wisdom, or her desire for it, as the Crone:

"I am the witness, the victim, the judge. My family has returned. Your trial, soon to begin."

"The times ahead will need decisiveness. Power."

And Natah does die in TNW. Her death is a very big part of the quest lol. The "End of life" theming of the Crone fits her very well... And the very first "gatekeeper/crone judges and makes the decision for you" thing she did was killing ballas. So i get it!

Inversely... You could also assign Natah as the Maiden and Margulis as the Mother because of the simple "Natah was the Daughter, now I am the Mother" quote. After all, Lotus before TNW was living very much under Margulis' shadow, assimilating into her like you mentioned. This read leaves Lotus to be the Crone; the empty, wise Witch we have yet to see.

The more i write this the more I wanna say: Damn. These 3 were always meant to converge into each other. Their stories are all sides of each others' respective coins and it almost feels arbitrary to chuck them into strict roles, even if symbolic.

I definitely think we're gonna see her "Triple Goddess Final Form" in the future. It's too good a story beat. Too sexy. DE HAS to do it. I have my platinum ready. Give me all the skins.

As for the DrifterLotus copium....... Hehehe. I don't think DE will ever do anything romantic/sexual with them. i think they're just gonna cap their relationship off at "they care immensely for each other" because they might be concerned about the questionable pseudo incest implications looming over anything to do with Lotus and the Tenno.

Like don't get me wrong; Drifter is their own person and Lotus of all people would be comfortable with the concept of "people having identical faces won't make them the same person". I just feel like DE might not be willing to play with them in that way. For perfectly understandable reasons... The Player Tenno are very much "colouring book" characters for the OC lovers so it seems smart to keep them relatively open-ended.

But. Don't worry. Check my AO3 at the end of the week. I hope you'll find something that brings u even a little bit of cheer ;3

[the-archetype-of-civilization]

Some ATSV things that I love.

-SPOILERS AHEAD-

Gwen's world is gorgeous and the fact that it helps to convey emotions so well is awesome.

I can't say for certain, but the part where Lizard Parker's hand is sticking out of the rubble is similar to Green Goblin's hand sticking out when he died in ITSV. Funnily enough, that's when both Peters died.

Spot goes through a similar arc as Miles: they both have these abilities that they awkwardly try to utilize, fail often, and end up hurting themselves in the process. The difference is that Miles had a mentor and friends to help him through his trauma and loneliness and channel his powers for good. Spot had no one and, although he had a much easier grasp of his abilities and was far quicker to adapt to them than Miles, he channels his powers with hatred.

Uncle Aaron caring for Rio and Miles in Earth 42 after Jeff's death says more about him than he thinks.

Miles is such a tragic character in some of the less obvious but still hurtful ways: he's actively giving up his pursuit of art in exchange for science just so he can see his friends, he has no IRL friends, his Spider friends were not allowed and/or chose not to see him when they had the ability to, he's outcasted by the Spider Society actively, they KNEW he was an anomaly and chose not to tell him, him becoming Spider-Man was by chance, he learned his dad was "fated" to die, and he inadvertently caused Spot's creation (though, that was mainly Spot's own fault to be fair). It sucks, but he still keeps going because he's gonna "do his own thing." Absolute chad. I love the Spider peeps, even Miles' friend squad, but, respectfully, fuck 'em (minus Hobie, for obvious punk reasons).

This prevailing theme of "you can't just ignore your problems, you need to face them" is so good, and it's apparent through Gwen. She flat out says "I don't know how to fix this" when she reveals herself to her dad and just goes on a whole separate adventure, escaping her world and her problems, just ignoring it. And she's finally forced to confront her problems and herself when she's kicked out of the Spider Society, saying the same exact thing when she finds her dad again.

Gwen didn't kill Peter and she says as much to her dad, but I'm sure she feels guilty about it and that's probably why she tries to ignore it and not talk about it, denying that part of herself and further adding to the "denying her problems" and, by extension, herself.

This may be a personal thing, but it's interesting that characters seem more expressive and open about their feelings when the mask is on, rather than when they're off. They're more comfortable when they're hiding behind a mask, and are more guarded and insecure about themselves when the mask is off. Again, this might just be pure personal speculation.

Another great theme I love is that not everyone knows what they're doing, and that's okay. Kids, teens, adults. "No one has a personal handbook." And that's awesome and something that everyone needs to hear. And even the people that think they know what they're doing, don't (Miguel, Jess).

Following that, I love that it leads into "trusting yourself" and why Miles rejecting what everyone is saying how his story should go and doing his own thing hits so hard. He doesn't know if what he's doing is right, but he wants to do the right thing and he's going to fight hard to do it. Gwen has trouble realizing this because of another point I'm gonna bring up after, but she starts to understand that at the end as well. Same for Peter when he doubts he'll be a good father for Mayday. Do right for yourself through others. And, in a way, that works for Miguel as well in trying to do right by the multiverse (needs of the many vs. needs of the few), but it became twisted from trauma to the point of zealotry and a bad habit.

Gwen's mentors (Miguel and Jess, most likely) twisted her view of what the right thing to do is. She's learning from them what THEY think is the right thing to do, rather than trusting herself. She fell into a crowd that, indirectly, used her at her most vulnerable moment when she was the most doubtful about herself to become their asset. It's cruel, but she learned from it after she was kicked out. And it also shows that Peter really WAS a good mentor to Miles in comparison.

Miles inherits the Spider-Man trait better than any other Spidey in the Society. "What's important is not standing by while allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. If you don't get that, then you don't know the first thing about being Spider-Man." He does this without a second thought and INSTINCTUALLY. The fact that everyone CHOOSES to sacrifice is bonkers, a sacrifice is only viable when there's no other option when taking action. Miles LEARNED from his inaction in the first movie, now he's practically teaching everyone by example.

I don't agree with everyone saying that he needs to sacrifice to be a true Spider-Man, when this movie and ITSV before it is a critique of the Spider-Man mythos: that a Spider-Man is only a true hero until they have lost someone dear to them. Miles is an anomaly, and I feel like this only adds to him being the outlier if he goes BEYOND the curse and is able to save both his dad and the multiverse. If Raimi's Spider-Man could do it, so can he. And Gwen's dad is now alive and well, too! Not everything is set in stone, even Lyla said as much: "That's what the model says..."

Rio's speech to Miles is some of the most heartwarming, genuine, motherly writing I've seen in a long time and is a top highlight in the movie for me. And I think this is what kept Miles going through his escape from the Spider Society, standing firm against everyone saying he didn't belong and that he was going to get home safe and sound like she wanted.

"Meanwhile, the cakes take a ride..."

Also, the super long quiet moment after Gwen leaves and Rio is there to console him is such a nice breather. Allowing the film to soak and the characters to breathe is awesome, just seeing Miles react to seeing his friend leave with simple silence against the NY ambience is such under utilized filmmaking. LET FILMS BREATHE AND TAKE THEIR TIME.

Miguel's twisted view isn't without merit and I understand where he's coming from. He's taking these steps because he was forced to have this narrow-minded view of saving the world and what it means to be Spider-Man because of the trauma he experienced, that you NEED to sacrifice in order to save everyone else. His steps to do it are messed up and bordering antagonistic (especially when Miles is in the picture), but he's doing it for the right reasons (he watched an entire universe become erased because of his selfishness). But it's the wrong execution. He's a better written villain with understandable motives than Thanos, in my eyes.

And I really love that Miguel was willing to talk down Miles about what was at stake, to reason with him and empathize with him about the cost of his choices and where it lead him ("Trust me, I know") before he...jumped to an ultimatum.

The music fucking slaps, and I don't just mean in terms of melody and sound and all that. It tells a story as well without the movie, it has its themes perfectly interwoven (like a web heheh) together and creates a thematically rich soundtrack. Pemberton can create so many moods in one track effortlessly it's insane, all the way from heartwarming, to terrifying, to brutal, to epic, to heroic, to fun. Top marks.

"I'm gonna take everything from you, like you took everything from me. See you back home...Spider-Man" is terrifyingly delivered and a chilling line.

I don't need to say anything more about Hobie than anyone else has, but I severely misjudged him like Miles did and I love being proven wrong. Especially with the discussion about him being more brotherly towards him. I also liked that he saluted Mayday and knows how to handle a baby, looking out for the kids and all like he does.

Addendum, seeing Miguel being able to handle a baby as well is heartwarming and heartbreaking for obvious reasons.

The part where Hobie uses his legs to block Miles from going almost feels like he's trying to warn Miles not to go any further, that it's not gonna end well. Gotta love Hobie, man.

Peter's little speech to Miles is really nice, and something everyone needs a reminder of, too. "Bad things are gonna happen, but good things happen, too." It's short, simple, and sweet. Although, in the context of it basically being "yeah, your dad is gonna die, but something good will come from it, too," that's pretty messed up.

Seeing Miles' borderline evil smirk when he starts sapping Miguel's electricity is wild.

In relation to that, Miles has grown up so much. You can see that he's been able to calm himself down more and have better control of his abilities. You can especially see it when he's facing 42 Miles: his eyes relax, he steadies his breathing, and he has complete focus. That's when his powers come out. I love watching my boy work.

Side note to that last part about 42 Miles, our Miles clearly learned from Peter when he tore his gloved finger to use his powers: "Watch the hands, not the mouth."

Miles' "good bye" to Gwen is so sad, but you can hear he's grown from it. From them. He sounds so heavy hearted and disappointed. Again, I need to reiterate to his friend squad, really uncool, guys.

When they were going through every Spider person's captain death tally and there was Hobie's, his reply ("Yeah, what of it?") is heartbreaking.

In ITSV as well, but I love how they animate hugs in this movie. And I love how often it happens, too. They're quick and tight, but look and probably feel as warm as they look. It's a very affection heavy movie.

"The 'Spider Verse'...huh. That's...stupid" is such a dickhead thing to say, but it's so hilarious. It feels like something that would only be utterable in a comic book setting. It works.

That twist at the end is expertly crafted and I've talked about it in another post, and that cliffhanger (although painful to us viewers) is a perfect way to cap off that it's the beginning of the end and that all of the players are set, the pieces are in place. An Empire Strikes Back equivalent but in glorious comic book form, tone and all.

Anyway, movie good. I probably have more to say and maybe I'll make another post when I think more about this movie (I inevitably will). But yeah, I had to get this out of my head. Thanks.

Also, side note, Spider-Cat and Pter Ptarker should be named Peter Purrker and Petyrannosaurus Prex. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Edit: I'm sorry, I keep updating this post thinking that it's the last and then I think about something else that I love and have to put it in. This movie is brain rot.

Edit 2: I made another post because I can't help myself.