#point is... she's a good character and her arc is interesting and to deny that

[no-charity-case]

An analysis of Davey and Katherine's relationship (part 1/2).

I think one of the most interesting developments in the entire show is how Davey and Katherine come to like each other, so let's explore their relationship in another informal essay (part 1).

When Katherine arrives at Jacobi's Deli, Davey is already in a bad mood since Jack forces him (one of the only newsies with a curfew) to go to Brooklyn:

JACK Oh. Me and Davey will take Brooklyn. DAVID Me? No. KATHERINE Why is everyone so scared of Brooklyn?

When she first arrives, David seems to already doubt her qualifications (likely because of her gender) and seems quite amused that she's even trying. It is strange that Davey immediately looks down on her and regards Katherine as an outsider. After all, he doesn't exactly fit in with the other newsies ('auspicious' anyone?), and he isn't dressed like them either.

Plus, he didn't undermine his sister's ability in the 1992 movie or the earlier drafts of it (such as Hard Promises), so I don't see why he deems Katherine incapable on first glance.

Even though David didn't believe in Katherine as a reporter at this point, he still got worried when Jack accused her of following him. As seen in the gif above, he whispers "Oh Jack", places a hand on Jack's arm, and glances back to see her reaction. He is seemingly warning Jack to shut up and not antagonise Katherine. He may dislike her, but David has a level of social etiquette that the other newsies don't.

Where Davey is initially sexist, Katherine is initially classist. She assumes the newsies are unorganised, filthy, and dumb because of their social class. Katherine speaks patronisingly to Jack in particular (which makes sense based on their past meetings), but she also talks to the newsies as if they aren't individuals (she seems to be spitballing somewhat sensationalised headlines rather than seeking genuine answers to her questions).

KATHERINE No. The only thing I’m following is a story. A ragtag gang of ragamuffins wants to take on the king makers of New York? Well, do you think you have a chance? JACK Oh, shouldn’t you be at the ballet? KATHERINE Is the question too difficult? I’ll rephrase. Will the richest and most powerful men in New York give the time of day to a gang of kids who haven’t got a nickel to their name? CRUTCHIE Hey! You don’t gotta be insultin’. I got a nickel.

In response, Davey scoffs (as seen in the second gif). He didn't take kindly to the newsies being dubbed a 'ragtag gang of ragamuffins' and was immediately on the defensive. As soon as she thinks up the 'David and Goliath' analogy, Davey is quick to jump in. He gets out of his seat and approaches her.

KATHERINE So I’d guess you’d say you’re a couple of David’s looking to take on Goliath? DAVID We never said that. KATHERINE Well, you didn’t have to. I did.

Katherine's response, again, disregards the voice of the newsies (which should be the reason she's there: to listen to their answers). She even laughs to herself after her witty response. This causes a slight dislike for both parties. Katherine was likely bothered by Davey's defiance, and Davey was irked by her speaking for them.

Jack also doesn't trust Katherine immediately (alternatively, he may just be arguing with her for argument's sake). He points out that women do not write the serious, important stories. This may even be where David's later sexist comments stem from. As I mentioned prior, it seems out of character, but I'm also not denying that he could feel this way without Jack's input - after all, I do love a good character arc.

JACK You know, I seen a lot of papes in my day and I ain’t never noted no girl reporters writing the hard news.

Katherine fought against this, insisting they need to wake up to the new century and essentially calling them closed-minded. This shuts up Jack and the newsies (who were previously humming and murmuring their approval to his comment).

Although we do see Jojo and Race judging her reply, we can also see Albert, Specs, and Tommy Boy actually listening behind them. We do not get to see Davey's reaction here, but both do make sense for his character.

He could scoff as he did before. After all, he disliked her immediately and wanted to somewhat fit in with the newsies (so he may have mirrored the reaction of Jojo and Race). But the 'Walking Mouth' does seem to appreciate debate and reasoning, and Katherine makes a good argument. So, he could be weighing up whether he should or should not trust her at this point.

She continues by calling either the strike or their petty argument 'entertaining'. I think she means the interaction she is currently having, but I reckon Davey interpreted it to mean their strike. He assumes the worst in her so therefore sees the worst in her.

KATHERINE Well, wake up to the new century. The game’s changing. Now, how about an exclusive interview? JACK Ain’t your beat entertainment? KATHERINE This is entertaining. So far.

Jack and Katherine continue to bicker. Her comeback gets many more of the newsies on her side because she'd now proved to them she was witty and intelligent. David (who likely thought of a similar counterargument himself) is unmoved by this.

JACK Hey, what’s the last news story you wrote? KATHERINE What’s the last strike you organized?

When Katherine puts Romeo in his place, the newsies seem to have more respect for her. Davey is likely the only one who doesn't feel this way because he hasn't known Romeo as long as the others, so he won't be as irritated by his painful romantic ventures.

ROMEO You’re out of your league, Kelly. Methinks the lady needs to be handled by… a real man. KATHERINE You thinks wrong, Romeo. ROMEO How’d she know my name? JACK Get outta here.

So, Davey approaches her again, rejecting her offer from earlier. Now, he could mean a "real reporter" as in someone who writes the serious, important stories, or he could mean a "real reporter" as in a man. Again, that's up to your interpretation, as either can be true.

DAVID I’d say we save any exclusive for a real reporter.

Katherine begins answering Davey, but leaves during the ellipses (below) to talk with Jack. This could be for two reasons. Firstly, Katherine knows there is little she can say at this point to get Davey on her side. Or, it could be that she sees Jack as the leader of the strike. I am more inclined to believe the second because (as we will explore as the post goes on), Katherine considers Jack the leader.

KATHERINE Well, do you see somebody else giving you the time of day? All right. So I’m just busting out of the social pages, but… But you give me the exclusive. Let me run with the story, and I promise I’ll get you the space.

Interestingly, when she first offers the exclusive, she offers it to everyone, but she only speaks to Jack the second time. Again, Katherine is disregarding the voice of the newsies as a group, and she is also disregarding the voice of the actual leader (in terms of the 'brains' behind the strike): Davey.

Now, this could be because Jack is the 'face' of the strike, so is, by extension, the face of the Manhattan newsies. However, I do think that it is strange she doesn't address the group as she did the first time. Why couldn't Crutchie, Race, Specs, Albert, Mush or Elmer give her the interview?

Even more interestingly, in 2012 bootlegs, she appears to offer the first interview directly to David. Her offering the second only to Jack would make more sense in this case, as Davey says, "I’d say we save any exclusive for a real reporter," before the second offer is made (and Katherine likely knows David is not yet on her side).

Davey seems to quickly change his mind on Katherine when she tells Crutchie they'll make the front page. We can see him nod and then reach for Crutchie's arm in a way which communicates 'do you believe this?' or 'let me make sure I'm not dreaming'. The newsies are all excited by Katherine's claim, which may have also helped in winning Davey over. As we can see from his face, he is still cautious. But Katherine's news makes him optimistically cautious (in a similar way to Jack's hundred papes a week promise did in the novel).

CRUTCHIE Hey, you really think we could be in the papes? KATHERINE Well, shut down a paper like The World? You’re gonna make the front page.

This doesn't really relate to the Katherine and Davey topic, but here is the novel extract I referenced in case you haven't read it yet:

David didn't want to be partners with anybody, particularly not with this fast-talking Irish boy who seemed to live on the edge of the law. In David's neighbourhood, the Irish boys and the Jewish boys were always fighting. He especially didn't want to be dependent on his own little brother. But a thousand papers a week! If Jack was right, David and his little brother would be able to support the whole family.

Jack, in a way, reaffirms that he is the only person Katherine needs to speak with as he gives her the exclusive she wants. However, he excitedly rushes over to Davey as he tells her to bring a camera and the two share a moment of eager enthusiasm, suggesting that Jack sees David as crucial to the strike in a way that Katherine does not.

JACK You want a story? Be at the circulation gate tomorrow mornin’, and you’ll get one. Oh, and bring your camera. You’re gonna wanna snap a picture of this!

I think the reason Katherine initially wants the interview with Jack is that she believes he amounts to something more. She doesn't want to interview a 'ragtag gang of ragamuffins', but she doesn't mind interviewing Jack Kelly, the kid who (she assumed) is working his way through art school.

KATHERINE So, what’s your story? Are you selling newspapers to work your way through art school? JACK Art school? Are you kiddin’ me? KATHERINE But you’re an artist. You’ve got real talent. You should be inside the newspaper illustrating, not outside hawking it. JACK Maybe that ain’t what I want.

Even when Jack points out that David is the brains behind the strike, Katherine doesn't believe him. She instead assumes Jack is trying to be modest. So, it is clear that Katherine initially undermines Davey in a similar way he initially undermines her, although her reasoning behind this is also unclear to me (unless she was blinded by her attraction to Jack).

KATHERINE So tell me what you want. JACK Can’t you see it? In my eyes? KATHERINE ….. Yeah, okay. Have you always been their leader? JACK Hey, I’m a blowhard. Davey is the brains. KATHERINE Modesty is not a quality I would’ve pinned on you.

Davey is visibly different to the newsies around him, just look at his costume, or his use of language, or how he stiffly carries himself (not being comfortable in the group yet). Katherine, as we see, is rather sheltered, so she likely didn't think much of it when Davey called, "Hey, come on, Les. The folks are waiting" - she may have assumed they all have parents in a similar way Les did ("doesn't everyone?").

In Watch What Happens, Katherine calls Jack a "modern day David" and I see this as crucial to analysing her relationship with Davey.

KATHERINE Ok. “A modern day David is poised to take on the rich and powerful Goliath with the swagger of one twice his age, armed with nothing more than a few nuggets of truth, Jack Kelly stands ready to face the behemoth Pulitzer.” Now that is how you turn a boy into a legend.

As we see in the 1992 movie, the 'David and Goliath' analogy is based on David, not on Jack. I do love how the main difference between Katherine and Denton is who they interpret the leader of the strike to be (but that's another topic for another post).

DENTON I'm Denton, New York Sun. What's your name? DAVID (suspicious) David… DENTON David. As in David and Goliath?

The reference definitely works better with David (due to them having the same name), and Katherine does know David's name as Jack tells her (and she definitely heard it before she entered Jacobi's Deli). Yet, with this in mind and the fact that Jack told her Davey is the brains, she still decides to use Jack for the analogy.

It seems she doesn't want to accept Davey's role in the strike at all, instead wanting to credit it all to Jack.

Even when we look at the Watch What Happens lyrics, she acknowledges that Jack is the face of the strike (face, not brains). But, in the next breath, she says he is the one who can save them from "sinking in the ocean". I have two potential reasons for this. Her attraction to Jack could be influencing her interpretation of the strike, or she (as a reporter) could decide that what people see is more important than the truth.

So, he's a flirt A complete ego maniac The fact is he's also the face of the strike- What a face- Face the facts, that's a face that could save us all from sinking in the ocean

After the end of Seize the Day, When she celebrates with the newsies after taking their picture, she only goes to Jack. This is because she doesn't yet know any other newsie well because her interview was only with Jack. Davey celebrates with Crutchie.

It would have been nice to see Katherine and David share a happy moment together as it would show they had put their initial judgements aside. Then again, the pair likely still don't see the true importance of the other (especially on Katherine's end as she still feels it's only Jack who is the leader).

I'm not sure if David begins to like her now (as she's just taken their picture, so she's clearly serious about reporting on the strike), or when he learned she might get them to the front page (during their first meeting in the deli), or after he learns she got them to the front page (King of New York).

As Wiesel and the Delanceys show up, one of the scabs, Sniper, taps Davey's arm, implying that Davey had solidified himself as a leader within the newsies (after all, David was the one to kindly convince the three to throw down their papers, whereas Jack intimidated and shoved them). It is clear Davey is getting more and more respect in the group.

Katherine must have noticed David's co-leader role by now, though, because she specifically speaks to him in the next scene (King of New York) when Jack is away. However (I'll speak more on this when we get there), it is clear that Katherine still sees Jack as more important than Davey.

The lack of connection Katherine has with the other newsies doesn't last too long. During the fight, she checks in on Specs. From the very chaotic proshot clip, it seems that she runs over to him, which is a huge growth in her character. This is likely because she saw first-hand that the boys didn't do all that much wrong to deserve this brutal treatment, which challenged her prior beliefs about the "ragtag gang of ragamuffins".

In the 2012 bootlegs, Katherine leaves as soon as the fight begins, so she does not have this interaction. I do appreciate that the proshot decided to have her check in on the newsies though, as it is a small change which makes a big difference.

Unfortunately, we don't get to see Katherine and Davey interact during these scenes, so we do not know how their relationship is at the very end of Act 1.

In Act 2 their relationship changes significantly, but I wish I could've seen them interact at the end of Act 1 or before she tells them they made the front page.

When Katherine enters Jacobi's Deli, all the newsies are dejected and defeated from the fight. Katherine refers to them as 'gentlemen', showing that she has shaken off her classist prejudgements. This change in her language choices may also show a change in her and Davey's relationship, as (like we've discussed) his dislike either began from sexism or when she called the newsies 'ragamuffins'.

KATHERINE Good morning, gentlemen. Oh. Would you get a load of these glum mugs. Wait, can these really be the same boys who made front page of The New York Sun?

Either way, her new way of addressing them does show that she and the newsies now have mutual respect (which she definitely didn't have with all the scoffing from the first meeting).

As she talks, she tries to cheer them up. On "glum mugs" she lightly squeezes Elmer's shoulder, which is a very comforting action and something she wouldn't have even considered when she first met them. The newsies touch anyone for any reason (to name a few: in playfulness, in anger, in excitement, to motivate, or to comfort).

Davey and Katherine go through similar journeys with physical touch. They initiate touch when they see themselves as accepted by and integrated into the group. So, by this point, Katherine sees herself as a comrade rather than someone who is 'above' or 'superior' to the newsies.

Katherine still speaks in that sensationalised tone of voice, but she is now using it to uplift rather than undermine the group: "Can these really be the same boys who made front page?". Of course, her initial interview wasn't supposed to be uplifting, but as we explored, she disregarded and spoke down to them rather than aligning herself as an equal.

However, she is now focused on the newsies. She excitedly presents the newspapers to them, and is happy to see their moods immediately lift.

Katherine getting them to the front page seems to be why Davey's opinion on her changed; he now sees her as a 'real reporter'.

DAVID You got us in the pape? KATHERINE You got yourselves in the pape.

Look at the image above with the description "An image of Kathrine being proud of the newsies while she says they are the reason they made the front page, not her. David looks as if he's regretting that he judged her." David regrets doubting her capability as a reporter and gives her credit for what she's done (showing growth from when he initially disregarded her), but Katherine credits him and the newsies instead, implying how she sees their strike as equally important to her career, and showing her personal growth (as her first interaction was insensitive and patronising).

SPECS So, what else you got? KATHERINE Mine’s the only story that ran. Pulitzer declared a blackout on strike news, so even I’m shut down now.

Specs and Davey stick around to hear if Katherine had any more news (they both seem to be the two newsies closest to Katherine). Albert half sticks around, but it seems he wants to talk to Specs rather than gather more information, and it also isn't really important to this post.

However, Specs and Davey seem to be equally interested in Katherine as they are in the strike. They are disappointed in the blackout for strike news, but they also feel saddened that Katherine is shut down.

KATHERINE Hey, I heard they arrested Crutchie. Did they get Jack too?

She asks Davey this. This suggests two things. Firstly, the pair have a more sensitive and vulnerable relationship. Or (the interpretations could also be an and by the way), Katherine sees Davey as Jack's right-hand man. I'm not fully sure she sees him as a co-leader quite yet, but she definitely realises he plays a very active role in the union.

As the newsies detail what they'd like in King of New York, Katherine shows interest and support. She is far wealthier than the newsies (as she's literally Pulitzer's daughter), but she knows how much a pair of matching laces or a sandwich ('pastrami on rye with a sour pickle') means to them. Plus, she seems to be doing some sort of variation of 'good one' each time the newsies suggest things they'd like, even when they're objectively never going to get it ('a solid gold watch with a chain to twirl it').

DAVEY (sung) A regular beat for the star reporter!

While the newsies all think of things they'd like for themselves, Davey says what he wants for Katherine, and she looks very flattered by this. It's such a sweet interaction between the two, and I think it aptly showcases how they've come to like and respect each other (which is a clear growth from their first interaction).

Feel free to look up the definition yourself, as mine is quite lousy. Beat reporting is when a journalist has their own specialised topic (or 'beat') they write about consistently and expertly. Davey is essentially saying that Katherine is a real and capable reporter who deserves a promotion.

She sits with Specs, Davey, and Les during King of New York, and I'd say she has the strongest relationship with those three. Here we see her talking with Davey, and they both have a massive smile on their face.

Davey is playful with Katherine during the spoon dance, tapping his spoons on her hands. He still does this in the proshot, but the camera is (rightfully so) focused on Jojo having a blast instead. We can hear Davey excitedly shout "Katherine!" just before he taps the spoons on her hands.

Katherine also says a few things during this section of the dance, but I can't fully hear it: "yes, ???" (I think it's a newsie's name as she's cheering someone on, it might even be 'Dave/Davey') and I have no idea what the second thing she says is, perhaps "yeah, fellas!"

Based on the transcript (following 'but I was a star for one whole minute'), this is all the dialogue. It doesn't assign who says what though, which is unfortunate.

[Instrumental Dance Break] NEWSIE COMPANY & KATHERINE Yeah! / Alright! / Hey come on boys! / Oh my gosh! / Come on man! / You know, I taught him to do this. / Allright Albert! / Yeah! / He’s got things in his pockets! / Spoon Fight! / Come on! / Got ‘em! [Race and Smalls do the splits] Ow. / Got ‘em! Got ‘em! / Here we go! / You guys are great! / Here’s a big one! / Woah! / Come on Katherine! Let us see ya! [Katherine dances.]

However, I'm not sure all of it is fully accurate to the livesies recording as we can hear Davey say "Katherine, that's not fair, I mean he's got things in his mouth," but it isn't included in what I've pasted above. Here's a short audio file showing this:

Davey encourages Katherine the most in King of New York. He eagerly rushes over to her, trying to get her to dance and include herself in the group's fun. They are very similar characters when it comes to confidence, and he notices her reluctance but pushes her to try dancing anyway (similarly to how Jack encouraged him into the strike).

After she holds back and does a poor job, the newsies tease her:

DAVID That’s it? TOMMY BOY You gotta be kidding me. HENRY Boo. ROMEO That’s the best you got?

The newsies are very rowdy, and she responds well to them by putting more effort in and proving that she can dance.

All the newsies are proud of her, but Davey seems to be the happiest. Just look at the bright smile on his face. For Katherine and Davey, partaking in this celebration is so much more than the excitement of the strike making the front page; it's also about feeling at home with the newsies. Neither of them are outsiders anymore, and they are now happy to act silly and have fun with the newsies (which neither of them would have considered doing in the first Jacobi's Deli scene).

He brings her a chair and holds her hand as she kicks on it (he also has one hand on the chair to keep it stable for her). We can hear him say, "Come on, Katherine!" and the pair are just having the time of their lives.

Towards the end of King of New York, Katherine and Davey exchange a look that communicates pride, and a sense of 'can you believe it'.

At this point in the musical, they have a close relationship.

Katherine, Davey, and Les all leave together after King of New York, showing that the three have grown close. She sits on the stairs, and Les stands nearby (I can't see Davey in the clip). He's either spending time with them or he trusts Katherine enough to leave Les in her care (which he does during the search for Jack anyway).

When the newsies are searching for Jack, we can see Katherine and Davey talking. They have to work together to get Jack back, and we can see them spreading what they've just discussed to the other newsies. They make a great team as both of them are united, organised, determined, and calm about the situation.

David is searching for Jack alone, and Katherine is looking after Les, which shows his progression as a character (as he no longer needs Les nearby to know he's safe) and shows how much Davey actually trusts Katherine.

My next section is unfortunately cut off because only thirty images are allowed per post (I can add three more to this post, but I feel like part 2 should begin on my next point rather than splitting it between two posts). So, I will update with part 2 shortly.

[electricpurrs]

hey you 🫵 do you want to grow appreciation for japanese media that you wouldn't know otherwise and grow a more diverse taste to all the weird art that exists in the world?

i have a few recommendations for you!

i've been dying to recommend some youtube channels that i really love but never have the chance to bring up, but i think they have interesting things to say about japanese media!

Hazel makes video essays about anime and other media, i'm currently very entertained by her videos about obscure OVAs and old playstation 2 games. i really enjoy how she talks about things and hearing her perspective on various subjects

Amelie Doree (though i'm not sure if she goes by that or Noelle which is what she uses on her patreon) makes videos essays on (mainly eroge) japanese visual novels, from very famous and genre-defining ones, to extremely niche and often completely untranslated and undiscussed in the west ones! her videos are incredibly interesting and have given me a whole new appreciation for the visual novel genre of which i wasn't familiar with before

a good video of hers to start is "Why a Forgotten Visual Novel is the Best Trans Story I've Read' it talks about sexual topics but i think its clean enough to leave its good first impression regardless of how you feel about the medium

RickiHirsch (i believe she goes by Ricki) makes videos about a variety of subjects but often including also japanese games, anime and manga. one of my favorite and first video of hers i saw was "Queer Horror: Understanding Gender as Body Horror"

and lastly, i want to prove my point by recommending a modern anime i myself have watched completely on my own that i really enjoyed and think others would like!

have a totally legal link to My Senpai is An Otokonoko

this anime is from 2024 and i stumbled on it completely by accident. i was scared off a bit by the title (otokonoko being the common japanese term to describe a crossdressing man) but i was kinda pleasantly surprised by the softness and sincerity in which this show aproaches its topics.

its a romance/slice of life/drama show and its melodramatic and sugary sweet but a genuinely wholesome experience. the main character is extremely transfem coded (if you can even call it that? its in the text) and the show doesn't mock or demonize her for it and fully focuses on her perspective and feelings the whole time (and doesnt in any way deny a trans reading), and also its the first romance story probably ever where i've seen a character realize they're actually aromantic as a conclusion to their arc. its cute its sweet and if you watch the first episode and think thats for you then all 12 episodes will go by flying and you will cry. because i did

do it for her ^^^

[anneapocalypse]

On Wuk Lamat, and Female Characters in FFXIV

The Thing with Wuk Lamat is you can tell me you think she had too much screentime; you can give me numbers on how many lines she had or how many scenes she's in relative to other characters or other expacs; you can prove to me "objectively" that she gets more focus than other main NPCs; you're simply not going to convince me that this is something I should be unhappy about. And not just because it's silly to think you can use numbers to prove a story is good or bad and make someone else go, "Wow, you're right, let me just throw away all the joy I experienced with this story and revise my opinion because you've scientifically proven to me that I'm wrong."

Because while I love Final Fantasy XIV and I have greatly enjoyed its story in so many ways, fundamentally one of my biggest beefs with this game has been how much female characters have been denied complex character arcs and growth and agency and interiority.

Minfilia gets treated as a sacrificial vessel who lives for everyone but herself and doesn't even get to have feelings about her own death because that entire arc is focused on a male character's angst about it instead. The game tells us in the Heavensward patches that Krile sees Minfilia as her best friend and then just forgets about that later and never follows up on what that loss must have meant to her. Ysayle is basically right about most of what she's fighting for but harboring a bit of self-delusion is apparently such a terrible sin that she has to pay for it with her life, while her male foil is deemed so worthy of salvation that there's a whole plot point about how important it is that we risk our lives and others' lives to save him. Y'shtola is a major character who's been around since the beginning, and the game keeps dropping maddeningly interesting things about her (apprenticed to a cranky old witch in a cave! saved her own life and the lives of her friends with an illegal and dangerous spell and it worked! reserved and undemonstrative yet regularly through her actions reveals herself to be deeply caring! disabled!) and then shows complete disinterest in following up on any of those things with the kind of depth and care shown to male characters with complex arcs like Urianger.

In general there is also a repeated thread of female characters being portrayed as weak or overly emotional: Minfilia is weak because she doesn't fight and needs to be eaten by a god in order to gain "a strength long sought." Krile is portrayed as not being able to pull her weight with the Scions (despite the fact that she actively keeps five of them from dying in Shadowbringers) and the only thing they could think of for her to do in Endwalker was be yet another vessel for Hydaelyn (hmm, that sounds familiar) and it's not until Dawntrail that she gets much actual character development in the main story and even that has to come alongside "Look, she can fight now so that means she's useful." (And I love Picto!Krile, I'm just saying, there's a pattern.) Alisaie, despite having very good reasons for needing to find her own path apart from her brother, is portrayed as having to prove herself when she returns, that she's "not the girl she once was," and "will not be a burden" (while Alphinaud is repeatedly given the benefit of the doubt and reassurance and affirmation from other characters even after he takes on responsibilities he isn't ready for and fucks up big time).

And if you follow me you know I adore Urianger, and I love Alphinaud and Thancred and Estinien too, so please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here! I'm not knocking those characters, or saying we shouldn't also love them. I just use them as a comparison to demonstrate how the female characters have been neglected.

Lyse has some of the stronger character development among the female Scions, and while she's still kind of portrayed as being too emotional and hotheaded in early Stormblood, I think it's actually explored in more depth in a way that I like; Lyse has good reasons for wanting to fight for her nation's freedom, but having been away from Ala Mhigo for several years now, she needs to understand the stakes for the people who've been there fighting for years, what they've lost and still have to lose. She grows as a person and rises to the challenge of leadership, and I'm even okay with the fact that she leaves the Scions afterward because it feels right for her to stay in Ala Mhigo, and at least she doesn't die.

And by all accounts she was, like Wuk Lamat, widely hated when her expansion came out.

Unironically I think the other female Scion with the strongest character arc is Tataru. She tries to take up a combat job, finds that it's not for her, and decides to focus on where her strengths are instead. In doing so, she both holds the Scions together as an organization in the absence of a leader by capably managing their finances, and also comes into her own as a businesswoman and makes international connections that benefit both the Scions and her personally. In contrast to Minfilia, she's not portrayed as weak because she doesn't fight, and is actually allowed to be an important character who's good for more than being sacrificed. Tataru is still distinctly in a supporting role for the player character, however, and her character arc happens as a side story that takes up a relatively small amount of screentime over several expansions, which I think is probably why she doesn't evoke such a negative reaction.

But there is a pattern of the game's writing showing disinterest in the interior lives of female characters generally, and in making their growth the focus of a story.

So yeah, I'm going to be happy about Wuk Lamat! I'm going to enjoy and celebrate every moment of her character arc, of her personal growth, of watching her put the lessons she's learned into action. I'm going to love and treasure every moment when she gets to be silly, embarrassing, emotional, scared, grieving, confused, upset, seasick, impulsive, and still deemed worthy of growing into a hero and a leader. I will love her with all of my soul and you simply will not convince me that it wasn't worth the screentime after such a profound imbalance for basically the entirety of the game. We've never had a major female character get such a strong arc with this much love and attention put into it and that means more to me than I can truly say. The backlash to it is disheartening, as this kind of thing always is, but I'm not going to let it ruin the wonderful experience I had playing it and how much joy it continues to bring me.

And for those of you who don't want any of that for a female character, thank goodness you have Heavensward and Shadowbringers and Endwalker and no one can take those away from you.

(And if you follow me you know that I love Shadowbringers and Endwalker and have very fond memories of Heavensward despite some issues with it, so not only can I not take that from you, I am not trying to!)

Some of us have been real hungry for a character like this with an arc like this, so, I think, y'know, maybe we can have that. As a treat.

[imogenkol]

I think what’s really frustrating about Bix and Cassian’s rekindled relationship is that we’re shown exaclty why they don’t work romantically and it just feels like a waste of time because that was already established in the previous season. They had on again/off again flings and relationships until Bix finally had enough. You can see her fondness and care for Cassian still during s1, but most importantly you can see how far past her limit she has reached with him. This is why I was disappointed that we were never given or even shown a good reason for them to be together again. We are just unceremoniously thrust in the middle of a re-established relationship one year in, one where Bix is essentially the stay at home “wife” while her “husband” is off to war — both arcs she is stuck waiting around for him.

Also Cassian does deeply care and love Bix, I will never deny that, however he does not understand her at all. Throughout this entire arc, he is treating her like she is fragile, he is paranoid about her safety to the point of shooting her down when she finally has an idea for something that brings a little spark back into her, then he gets irritated with her (albeit her out of character behavior in this instance with her bizarre issue with him killing an imp soldier) and once again leaves her behind to go on a mission, is oddly territorial with Luthen even talking to Bix while he’s gone. Cassian simply does not understand what she needs even when she’s literally telling him. Adria herself said that Bix needs someone she can rely on, someone who she can be in a team with, someone she can ask for help. I’m sorry, that’s just not Cassian, it never has been and Bix has learned this lesson over and over and I suppose she has to learn it one last time.

And that’s what upsets me the most. This relationship is meant to be Cassian’s blind spot, Cassian’s eventual heartbreak, and it is all to her detriment. There are so many different more interesting and more sensible directions their relationship could have progressed this season, but it truly feels like they’re setting up Bix’s death to be as heartbreaking at possible for Cassian, reducing her to his accessory to fuel his story like I’ve feared these past few years.

[gritandoengay]

your post is very well made and i agree wholeheartedly but i wanted to add one thing I've noticed in my time participating in fandoms that caused even people who liked caitvi to turn on it after season 2: people tend to like a specific ship dynamic and that is "character A is traumatized/mentally ill and character B fixes them" and a lot of people liked that dynamic for caitvi before s2 with vi being the traumatized one, and i guess people wanted to keep that dynamic in s2 and got mad when caitlyn had her own issues to deal with. it feels like people only allowed vi to have depth and feel emotions and caitlyn should have just been her cutesy therapist girlfriend and they didn't like that she got to be a fully developed character as well

You make a really good point. I didn't see nearly as much discourse around Caitlyn after season 1, and that's probably in part because to many of those people, she came off like the perfect female romantic interest - hot, supportive, and (again, in those people's eyes) existing mostly to serve Vi's own character.

It's funny when people accuse season 2 of treating Vi like an extension of Caitlyn/Caitlyn's girlfriend (which, lmao, way to ignore the entirety of the Vi and Jinx teaming up to save their father arc) when I would argue that such an accusation would fit Caitlyn's character and purpose more in season 1. Not saying that Caitlyn's character in season 1 can be reduced to just being Vi's love interest, not at all, but it was easier to fit her in that box.

Then comes season 2, and the Asian lesbian that nobody can deny is a lesbian any longer has *gasp* more agency! and *gasp* a morally grey arc! She also stops being physically thrown around like a ragdoll so much when she decides that she has fucking had it after her mom's memorial gets attacked, and I can't help but see the symbolism in that too.

Suddenly, it's harder to treat Caitlyn like the submissive Asian waifu I pretended she was in season 1! I don't like this anymore! She made Vi upset, how dare she! Caitlyn should still be crying in the rain like the good little submissive Asian femme I want her to be!

As always, nobody will admit that these factors are at play when the fandom vilifies Caitlyn so much while babying other characters guilty of their own war crimes, but I've been around enough to see what happens when a wlw character gets a morally grey arc - people always, always absolutely lose their shit. Add in the fact that Caitlyn refuses to be a dainty submissive Asian waifu and you get *gestures around* this.

[this-user-is-new]

You're so good at explaining the issues with s2. The writers were scared of having their "good" characters do bad things that they removed all of everything that actually made their bad actions bad. If the gas magically didn't touch a single civilian and had no long term consequences, AND was only used on people who ""deserve it"" what's actually the morally gray action there? It's practically like they gave the strike team a magic wand to peacefully knock out the evil evil bad guys. Where is this nuance I'm apparently failing to see?

I initually loved act one because I interpreted the gray to be a realistic depiction of a chemical weapon. I thought having Cait willing to use something that caused so much harm to achieve what she saw as a righteous thing as an interesting development of her previously pacifist character arc, and that was building up to her being a ruthless leader in act 2, but it seems the writers intended her use of the gray to be just.. more pacifism? She even openly condemns everything bad about how Ambessa is handling things. Where is the "cycle of violence" when you're denying that any violence was committed by piltover?

you're right! the show introduces morally gray dilemmas but then smooths them over so no one actually has to grapple with uncomfortable fallout. it just keeps flirting with difficult themes like violence, power and cycles of oppression, without ever truly following through. it all feels like an aesthetic choice than an actual narrative stance tbh. especially in season 2.

like you pointed out, the gas could’ve been a pivotal moment to show caitlyn’s descent into ruthless pragmatism, but instead, any real harm is conveniently avoided so she can remain on the "right" side of the audience’s moral compass.

and where is the cycle of violence when piltover’s actions are consistently framed as clean, justified or free of lasting consequences? the gas, the rewritten backstories, ambessa being positioned as the ultimate antagonist to shift focus away from piltover’s systemic role in perpetuating conflict ...

[masochist-marmot]

A fair and balanced look at MHA chapter 431

To all of my fellow bakudeku and togachako truthers out there: I see you, I hear you, and your disappointment is valid. I agree with a lot of the criticism. However, I have a lot of nuanced thoughts, and I will attempt to write them down in a balanced way, so bear with me. I will also treat the leaks as though they were confirmed for now.

(This post became an essay so I'll divide it into subheadings for clarity.)

Reminder: Be kind

Before I get into this, I'd like to remind everyone to please be kind and understanding when having this discourse. I get that there are strong feelings involved, but please don't harass the creators or other members of the community. Remember that at the end of the day this is fiction, and no one has the right to dictate how others view it or consume it. You are allowed to express your opinions and feelings, but try to be respectful to those who don't share them. No matter what side of the issue you stand on.

Queer relationships in shounen

First of all, I understand that it's disappointing when potential queer relationships are sidelined in favour of compulsory heterosexuality. But I can't say that I'm surprised. The standards and norms of depicting relationships in shounen manga go deep, and while it would be nice to see them challenged, we have to remember that there is an entire industry behind these decisions. I'm talking about genre conventions, authorial decisions (affected by unconscious biases), editors, publishers and a whole lot of moving parts. There's a lot of money involved, which means that any changes to the conventions will happen at a snail's pace. I am not excusing the decisions Horikoshi made, but it's good to be mindful that the decisions don't take place in a vacuum. I went into the series with the full expectations that none of the same-sex relationships would be made canon, so I'm not overtly disappointed with that being the case. It's the same expectation I take to any shounen series.

It's obviously worthwhile to question and challenge conventions like these, that's how progress is made. But focusing on a specific author's specific choices might not be the best way to go about it. Although it's worth pointing out that Horikoshi didn't have to make any relationship canon, yet chose to do so. Let me get into that.

Why IzuOcha falls flat

There is no denying that izuocha seems to have been the end goal from the very beginning. She's the first girl, Izuku took immediate notice of her, and her feelings for him became her entire character for a while. It's a cute ship, I guess. The issue is that it lacks any real depth. I'm going to be completely honest with you: I don't think Horikoshi is very good at writing compelling female characters. A lot of the male characters get amazing character arcs, while many female heroes only get a couple of cool moments (full of fanservice) and are promptly discarded. Himiko and Ochako, who have the most compelling female relationship of any kind in the entire series, fail the very simple Bechdel test miserably. Half of their conversations literally revolve around the male protagonist.

I believe this is why many of us prefer bakudeku over izuocha. The boys just get much better character development both as individuals and in relation to each other. Izuku and Ochako's moments don't cut nearly as deep, and while they do somewhat further Ochako's character development, they seem to have no bearing on Deku's character. Meanwhile Uraraka's conflict with Toga meaningfully challenges and alters both characters' worldview, even though their relationship had much less time and opportunities to develop. To me this whole situation just reads as Horikoshi giving Deku a canon love interest early on, then failing to develop the relationship and having to rush it to get the ending he intended.

Character study: Izuku and Katsuki 8 years later

Now I'll ignore authorial intent for a while and ponder on how the leaked chapter reflects on the character development of my main boys. I'm actually not that mad about the decisions Deku makes in this (forced romance aside). I seem to be in the minority that's fine with Deku losing OFA and becoming a teacher, because I actually think it suits him perfectly. In chapter 430 I mostly took issue with him being lonely for eight years and then jumping the gun to become a hero again, which seemed kinda contradictory. If he was truly contented with being a teacher, they could've made it clearer. Though I'm not going to lie, Kacchan funding his battle armor was incredibly cute. In the leaked chapter, it almost feels like they were trying to reinforce the notion that Deku is happy with his life as a teacher, which feels a little forced, but I can respect it. You have to remember that he's been quirkless for eight years and has had time to come to terms with it. People change a lot in eight years. I barely recognise the person I was eight years ago. So what rubbed me the wrong way wasn't that he rejected Kacchan's roundabout offer but the way he rejected it. Like the guy's really hung up on you, the least you could do is let him down easy.

What I think is an especially hard pill to swallow is the distance between Kacchan and Deku. Unfortunately, it also kinda tracks. Hear me out. Their relationship maintained its intensity because of the rivalry. It motivated their respective personal growths, it pushed them further, and it tied them closer together. And it was magnificent. What we see here is that Katsuki is still driven by the will to compete, but Izuku isn't. He's a teacher now, he's got lives to change, he can't be bothered with competition and numbers. While Deku was building his new identity and new life, Kacchan was still hung up on the past: He was collecting funds for the suit to get Deku back into the game, he was rejecting sidekicks who didn't spark the same joy in him, and he was slowly dropping in the charts because he didn't have Deku to push him to try (also something about his personality, I'll just let it slide). I think in this chapter we kind of see him finally accept it. He doesn't push a hero suit on a rival and urge him on anymore, instead he forms an offer to join him as an unrelated question about if Deku's still intent on teaching. Since he says yes, Kacchan won't even bring the agency offer up; Kirishima has to translate the intention. Which is where I think Deku's answer has uncharacteristically little tact.

Does Kacchan deserve a better ending than this? ABSOLUTELY. Does the ending we get counter the character development seen so far? I don't think so. The sad reality is that people do grow up, and I see the ending we get as one possibility that reflects that. I would've also been happy with an ending where Deku keeps OFA and the boys go be gay fight crime for the rest of their lives together, but in all honesty, Deku coming a full circle back to quirklessness is more thematically satisfying to me. Mind you, none of this means that the relationship between these two isn't important to them. It just means that it was always bound to change, adapt and grow to a different direction. Kacchan's final goodbye may seem like an important moment that was completely brushed off, or you can see it as not being important because it's not a goodbye. These two men will continue to be part of each other's lives. And now I kind of want to read comfort fics about what their new relationship and domestic life would look like.

Brief togachako tangent

I said in an earlier post that I will be a togachako truther until the day I die, and I stand by that. In my book, it's already canon. Though sadly, it was also doomed. I'm a little conflicted on the whole thing. On one hand, I think Toga had a satisfying character arc, but on the other hand, we mostly just got our gays buried. Still, purely from a character perspective, I don't see her pushing Uraraka to live her life as a problem. Toga would definitely not want Uraraka to dwell on her memories and guilt. They seem to be bound together by blood now, and that won't change. Neither of them gain anything if Ochako denies herself happiness by not pursuing other relationships. Still, I understand the criticism in a narrative sense. It does come off as a queer character used as a device to push forward a comphet relationship. I just want them both to be happy.

Final thoughts: Canon is not law

I have shared my complicated thoughts and feelings on this presumed final chapter. You are obviously allowed to disagree with me, and your thoughts and feelings are just as valid as mine.

I think it's important to remember that you don't have to treat canon as law. The canonicity of something has never dictated how you should interact with the media. Obviously the author making something canon has a bearing on their story, but that's just what it is. It's their story. Which means that we don't have any say in what they decide to do with it, but they also have no say in how we make their story our own. If the ending is left open, it's left open for a reason. You get to interpret what happens next based on your reading of the story.

So please go create fan content where Izuku keeps his powers and hero status and where he keeps his rivalry alive, or write a fanfic about his life as a teacher. Go explore how the thing with Uraraka develops (I trust that many of you would do a better job than Horikoshi), or ignore that part completely. Write about Uraraka's blood bond with Toga, maybe their relationship is still worth exploring post-mortem. Hell, make it a polyship between the girls and Deku. And there are so many things about Deku and Bakugou's relationship as adults that I'd read about and see fanart of, whether or not you take my interpretation of them into account.

[demonslayerunhinged]

Hello!! I saw your recent post and I thought it was really interesting :3 would you mind going a little more into depth about your opinions?

Hello anon! If you're referring to the sexualization post, then sure! Loooooooong answer incoming! Also, I'm going to be using 'You' a lot, just know I'm not referring to you anon but to the imaginary morality police I'm arguing with in my head. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I'm writing an essay about this and I will release it, swearsies! But lemme add some tidbits from it here.

Lemme start by saying that I understand that there's a problem with how female characters are portrayed in anime and manga but in my honest opinion right now sexualization isn't really a major issue when it comes to female characters especially the ones in other popular anime/manga series like My Hero Academia(kinda), Mob Psycho 100, Jujutsu Kaisen(🙄), Attack on Titan, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, One Punch Man, Tokyo Ghoul, Chainsaw Man, hell even One Piece!

People just throw around the word without knowing what sexualization actually is. So here's a definition:

Sexualization in media is when a character is portrayed as a sexual object and nothing more. The goal of their existence is to titillate the (male) audience. So because of that they hold no relevance, no character growth, no interesting personalities and are essentially stripped of their humanity. They're literally just objects for consumption.

A perfect example is Tamaki Kotatsu from Fire Force, who conveniently has the Lucky Lewd curse where she loses her clothes regardless of the situation. We're introduced to her boobs and the MC Shinra ogling them-who unintentionally gropes her in the next scene-before we get introduced to her as a person.

This is the first of many, many, MANY instances of her 'lucky lewd' curse. There's even not one, but two whole episodes dedicated to the various ways she'll lose her clothes when fighting enemies.

Even in her character defining arc where we get to see more of her backstory and where she is put in a life-threatening situation, her humanity is still denied and is she placed in this sexually suggestive position.

And when she is saved by Shinra because of course she is, the lucky lewd activated, and he crashes into her boobs for no reason and spends a good amount of time ogling her torn outfit I wish I was joking.

This is a serious situation btw. Like she was deadass just about to be killed. Even when she begs for mercy as one of the characters that she sees as an older brother figure attacks her so viciously it leaves her bloody and bruised that she begs for someone to save her, the camera focuses on her lips and portrays her pleads for help in an erotic light.

This was supposed to be her arc that would've not only developed her as a character but allowed us to gain more insight into her compelling backstory but no, instead she got to be a sexual object to be ogled by Shinra and the audience, even during her dire moments when she was brutalized she couldn't even have the chance to be portrayed with basic humanity as a human being. Her arc ended up being more about Shinra that it was about her. I mean, she can't even catch a break in the official art 😭.

This is what actual sexualization of a character looks like, now lets compare this to the 'sexualized' characters in KnY.

Mitsuri

The morality police like to point out her boobs bouncing, running scene and her bath scene as proof of her sexualization, but I disagree. Firstly, Mitsuri wasn't the only one that got a bath scene, Genya and Tanjiro got one too where we saw Tanjiro's bare ass on screen!

Second the running scene was gratuitous yes, but she's never groped, she's never ogled, in fact Tanjiro was more worried about her breasts spilling out than how she was dressed, and the moment was done over in like seconds, the show moves on to establish a character defining trait; her love of food. Already we see that she's humanized, we see her likes and her complaints about being ignored. There are no comments on her body and no other lingering shots of her boobs and she most definitely isn't put in sus positions like this

As for her uniform, I dunno maybe it's because I personally like wearing skimpy clothes because of sensory issues, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Her miniskirt makes sense because her fighting style relies heavily on acrobatics and flexibility, try doing acrobatics in an Amish-length skirt and let me know when you eventually eat shit and end up with a broken neck. Acrobatics are mostly done in either leotards or skintight costumes, and I don't think those were popular in Taisho Japan.

Like yea even though male gymnasts typically wear trousers so y'know their cock and balls don't slip out, a lot of them just wear short shorts.

Then her boob window, honestly come off it. Yea, when I first saw her I didn't like it, but that was because I was scared that she was going to be another fanservice character, but after reading the manga and Gaiden, it doesn't bother me anymore. I've seen some comments such as 'oh her breasts might spill out' and all, but they never do though. Do people forget that she's a fictional, 2D character???!!! Her boobs won't spill out unless the animators want it to.

We also got an explanation for the design; it was the work of the pervy designer Kakushi who's known rightfully as Scum Glasses, and Mitsuri though embarrassed just couldn't bring herself to burn or discard it, which tells us about her character and how she cherishes the hard work of others, no matter how pervy their intentions are.

None of our main characters shame her for it, even ogle her or make sexual comments about her body. Shinobu shames Scum Glasses and offers her matches to burn it, Sanemi's reaction to her embarrassment shows that he doesn't see it as a big deal and when it interfered with the wellbeing of the female slayers, his anger was directed at Scum Glasses, not the slayers.

Even Giyuu's comment in the Corps Records reads more like he's concerned for her safety, and the fact that she doesn't have scars despite her uniform is honestly impressive and a testament to her power as a Hashira.

She's one of the kindest (and frankly realest)characters in KnY-second only to Tanjiro. She was practically the only one against Tanjiro and Nezuko getting executed or punished, she accepted Nezuko without hesitation despite being a demon and treated her like a little sister, she didn't shame Genya for eating demons, in fact I don't think she noticed because all she saw was her junior who needed help.

She's not a 'sexualized female character', she's Mitsuri Kanroji. Who was literally rejected by the world for being different but instead of being bitter chose to use her literal strength to help people, who brings comfort to others with her smile and personality despite seeing so much loss and devastation, who fights and protects not out of spite or revenge or heritage but out of love and duty.

But yea sure, let's focus on her inconsequential uniform and her 10-second bath scene 🙄.

Nezuko and Daki

The main point of contention about Nezuko and Daki's 'sexualization' is because they're 'minors' which is so dumb and a whole other topic, but let's focus on their clothes. I really don't understand the complaints about Nezuko, because the majority of the time when she's not fighting she's dressed in her regular, 'modest' kimono.

What about when she's in demon mode? Oh! Her thighs are exposed when she's fighting? Yes, that tends to happen when you wear fucking skirts. Oh! Her clothes don't fit when she grows twice her size? You mean just like how the Hulk loses majority of his clothes when he grows too? Shocking that her clothes don't grow with her when she's not a fully formed demon. Shocking, I tell you!

Same with Mitsuri, there are no lingering shots of her boobs or her body because the main action is focused on her kicking ass. Go look at comments on anime sites in the episodes where she grows in size and fights, how many of them actually mention her body as opposed to her being kick-ass. The majority of Nezuko simps are simping over her as a moe character rather than a sex object. The most popular image of Nezuko is her shrunken form when she was running away from Kanao as it should because that scene was cute and funny as fuck.

For Daki, it's different, because yea she's wearing super revealing clothing, but here's my take; I don't see anything wrong with Daki's clothing. I'm sorry, but to me her outfit is iconic.

Her character design radiates power and intimidation to me rather than sexual object, and as with Nezuko and Mitsuri, despite her outfit, she never has any lingering shots on her boobs or placed in positions where she's groped and ogled, and she's never shamed by any of the characters because they're too busy trying not to get themselves killed. when I see her I'm not thinking 'heh, I can see her boobs', I'm fearing for my life and hoping she doesn't eat me! I mean look how terrifying she is in this shot.

Also, just like Mitsuri and Nezuko her humanity is never denied, when she had her head cut off by Tengen there were no suggestive shots of her body, in fact more people were shocked at her sudden cries which showed how young she was.

When she and Gyutaro are defeated, it's not portrayed in a sexually suggestive or erotic way, we're not made to see some femme fatale seductress, we're made to see an angry, bitter but ultimately hurt little girl who is spiteful at the world that rejected and abandoned her and her brother.

We see how she's had to survive, how she was brutalized and burnt for just standing up to her brother which in hindsight makes her reaction to Nezuko setting her on fire all the more heartbreaking. We see a girl who rejects 'heaven' if it means that she will be separated from her brother - the only person who was ever there for her, took care of her, comforted her and made her feel safe in a world that made them feel so rejected and so alone, the person who told her this:

If you're given all this character and backstory and all you choose to focus on is how she's dressed, then you need to check yourself and look inwards because you're the one with the problem.

The truth is, female characters are going to be sexualized regardless of what they wear, y'know just like women in real life, so how about we instead focus on making sure that they have relevance in the story, relatable backstories, character growth, rich personalities, and most of all humanity.

Sorry for the long answer anon but I hope this is okay for you, I would still post the full essay on Mitsuri eventually. Thanks for your question! ❤❤❤

[geekey]

Dude, I've watched this show at least three times so far, and I honestly have to say that all 3 times I hated Juliet and Adalind so much. I know Nick screwed up with Juliet, but they also didn't have the best chemistry, like, they'd been together for over 3 years and never got married, and Juliet (apparently) didn't want that marriage either.

Criticize me, but Juliet, despite everything, didn't shine much when she became a hexebiste.

Adalind and Nick were basically an ENEMIE to lovers, and honestly, once again, Adalind lost her shine when she became a wife and lost her role as a "villain". Man, this woman had a lot more potential before getting pregnant, but I won't deny that I liked her pregnancy arc and I honestly rooted for her relationship with Sean Renard, like, I know they wouldn't be the best and healthiest example of a couple, but they would still be more interesting and developed than Adalind and Nick.

In my humble opinion, Nick should have gotten involved with Rosalie and Monroe, in a threesome, like, they're funny, affectionate, loyal, they would fight together, they're absolutely cute, THERE'S A HUGE POTENTIAL HERE, plus the development would have helped so much, I'm not even kidding, there's more chemistry and development in this threesome than with the two romantic partners Nick had in the entire series, and I know Nick had cute moments with both of his romantic partners.

I also wanted to take the opportunity to point out that at the beginning of Grimm, Nick wasn't exactly the example of a good boyfriend, but Juliet wasn't a good girlfriend either later on, I just feel a certain pity and compassion for her character at certain times, she would have been happier if she had dumped Nick earlier, and he would also have been happier if he had followed Aunt Marie's advice, that old lady was right.

[roll-for-gaslight]

I'm not sure exactly how to put my thoughts into words so pardon my rambling but I'm thinking about how Kristen, Adaine, and Fig's character growth all stems from growing into a person they always could have been in a better situation. Also, it's interesting the way the bad kids seem to bring out these parts of each other because they're healing!

Like I know it was a kind of jokey moment but Adaine's little "Fabian hit me!!!!!" versus her insistence on being independent to the point of endangering her mental and physical wellbeing! She grew up so independent, unable to ask for help because of the risk of being ridiculed. She never asks for help and holds herself to an incredibly high standard. But that's not how her childhood should have ideally gone! She was supposed to have a big sister to tattle on and fight with, she was supposed to be taken care of! The BKs make her feel safe and cared for in a way her family never did, so her character development very much means slipping into the "little sister" position she was always supposed to occupy.

Fig pushed down her natural and newly-forming personality when the very foundation of her identity changed. She threw herself so wholly and entirely into her new aesthetic and vibe and vehemently denied the version of her that came before. Now she's growing to accept herself at all stages of her life, to a version of herself that brings in the parts of both her childhood and post-tiefling personalities that she likes and forms something new that makes her comfortable.

For Kristen, losing her religion made her lose a sense of identity. Without her parents to take care of her or her brothers for her to take care of, she was suddenly accountable to absolutely no one. She has Jawbone and Sandralynn, technically, but from what we've seen neither of them actually parent her a lot. So, she leaned hard into doing whatever she wanted, living wildly, engaging in all the things she never got to before, living a life as far away from her childhood as possible, and that's reflected in her clerical work. She loves Cassandra and wants her to thrive, but hates that what that means has a lot of overlap with what it meant to be Helio's Chosen. Like the daily prayer, the proselytizing, it reminds her too much of the things she was raised to do for Helio, and the fact that Cassandra needs Kristen to take care of her makes her accountable to someone in a way that she really wasn't for a while. Now that she's in the back half of her character arc, trying to bring Cassandra back and working hard for it, she's growing a little more responsible. There have been a lot of good moments this season where she's tried to help other people outside of combat-necessary healing, such as giving Lydia Barkrock the help action and the way she reacts after Fabian attacks Adaine (which I know is technically "combat-necessary healing" but how it happened came across as very Big Sister, like pulling the crayon out of her brother's nose in the first episode, especially with how it was immediately followed not with a bit like everyone else but with "oh no fabian got possessed I hope he's okay!!!! poor fabian!!!!!"

[averysherwood]

Lumity: wasted potential of the show

Lumity isn't as bad as Huntlow. They were planned since the beginning, they had time for development, even if it was a bit rushed. But they still have writing problems that we should address:

1. Amity's character almost dissapeared. During first season she was the most interesting character out of all, despite the fact that her arc was rushed and involved retcone. But after her redemption, she turned into sweet awkward nerdy girl. It's not realistic in any way to become completely different person in a couple of months, and it also made her boring. She's the second of three ex-villians who got the same new characterisation, which is bad by itself, but she also lost her special chemistry with Luz which we saw in Grom episode. This episode was Lumity's peak you can't deny it

2. Amity is just Luz's gf and nothing more. She has nothing to wish except being with Luz and seeing her being happy. No ambitions, no goals, no new friends. Just Luz. She thinks only about her, she talks only about her, she does everything only when it's about Luz. Only exception is Reaching Out, but it was also turned into Luz's thing. As much as I hate Huntlow, Hunter at least had something except love for Willow. It's bad not only because it makes Lumity a copy of awful mlw couple trope, it also doesn't show hurmful tendency (dependence on a partner and being obsessed with them) as something bad.

3. Lumity made Luz look bad. You know, dating your first friend's ex bestie and ex main bully is kinda messed up. It wouldn't be that problematic if Willow and Amity had already become friends again, but it's not what we've got.

4. Mistrust between Luz and Amity. I agree that the reason is that Luz is a bully victim and Amity reacted hurshly several times when Luz did something wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that it shows another hurmful idea that good partner has to forgive every bad thing and in the wrong for being offended. This moment of Amity would be cute if it appeared ones and clearly showed that she has changed and now she's much more patient with Luz. But in canon, Amity just allows Luz to treat herself like shit bu lying to her (and not only her) over and over again. And Luz lying three times (even if lie about Belos is justified) about things that are important for their shared future and for Amity's safety don't paint her in a good light. There's a line between not being too hursh to partner when they did something wrong and being a doormat for a partner because you were wrong in the past.

5. Imbalance in the effort invested in the relationship. As it is clear from my points that I made earlier, Luz is everything to Amity, while Amity for Luz is just a girlfriend. Amity's doing everything for Luz (which is not good), while Luz isn't even prioritize saving Amity over just being with Eda. In season three they barely interact at all. And now it isn't about Luz being the wrong one: it wasn't the right time for cute couple stuff. Actually, if you think about it, Luz's attitude towards Amity is much healthier. It's just too miserable to see Amity being Luz's loyal puppy who buried all her goals and ambitions, while Luz treating Amity like she treats other friends.

In conclusion, I don't say that they had to be like catr*dora or stol*z, no way. Healthy relationship should be portrayed in media, especially for kids. But there's the difference between being called healthy and being actually healthy. Lumity isn't abusive, isn't even toxic, it's just not a relationship goal. In the ideal world, their flaws should've been addressed and resolved in the show, so they can actually become healthy couple.

[madwhimsical]

i am still slowly rewatching The Ghost and Molly Mcgee, and like, I know the basic shapes of the arcs, I remember Scratch growing to care for Molly across s1. but the thing about going through each episode with a fine-toothed comb is, i am seeing this shift start to happen in significant ways a lot sooner than I thought it did. Like, in-the-second-episode sooner.

On the one hand, I understand a show needing to establish its character dynamic status quo early on. Episode 1 did a great job of that initial setup, and also preparing the audience to expect a kind of slowburn of Scratch's emotional walls coming down (I'm looking at you, the oblique Scratch-as-Andrea apology at the end of First Day Frights). This kind of vibe continues in Howlin' Harriet, as Scratch invents "safe" reasons for hanging around Molly (e.g. using the camping trip to pad out his scare report). And the show could have run with only this formula for a while: Molly's doing a thing, find an excuse to be on the periphery, grouse about it, but ultimately acquiesce and become invested. In fact, this is pretty much the setup for ep 3's Getting the Band(Shell) Back Together.

But something interesting happens in ep 2's The (Un)Natural. Tammy rips on Molly's lack of pitching skill, and Scratch intervenes (i will refrain from talking here about how protective Scratch is of Molly's feelings already, although it is a catalyst). Crucially, and allow me to continue the softball metaphor here, Scratch approaches clowning on Tammy/the Skylarks in a way that positions Molly and himself as being on the same team.

He's still denying friendship motivating his actions, but Scratch is unequivocally excited about cheating at playing softball with Molly. He outright says, "I cannot wait until the next game when we do it all over again!" And I find this use of "we" significant, because I think this is the first instance he's used first person plural to designate Molly as being part of his personal sphere/plans. Any other time he's used "we" in reference to Molly, it's been more in service of convincing her to exit an activity/situation he'd rather not bother with (hell, he does this earlier in this same ep, to try to persuade Molly to leave the Lemmings well enough alone so he can take a nap). But the guy is having fun alongside Molly here, rather than despite her or at her expense. He's enjoying having a reason to pal around with her, to say nothing of having a kind of blanket approval to be a little bit of a stinker to the other teams via ghost powers. I talked earlier about "safe" reasons to enjoy Molly's company, and i think being aligned against a common adversary accomplishes that for Scratch in that he could plausibly claim he was simply enjoying haunting them. This allows him a freedom to be more openly enthusiastic about the ongoing events without having to show vulnerability regarding his growing fondness for Molly. And across the subsequent games, he looks like he's super enjoying himself, like

He's having a blast, he's being silly! He's doing little antics to get Molly's attention so she can share in his good time! Like, the degree to which Scratch reaches out to Molly this episode is kind of mindboggling for how early in the series we are. I did not expect this level of sincere engagement from Scratch until a while later. And when Tammy jabs at Molly yet again, he invites Molly to give input on how to get back at her. There's another usage of first person plural here, too: "Let's just take this jerk down". He's specifically positioning them together, against Tammy, on Molly's behalf.

I think it's also worth mentioning that by this point, Scratch is legitimately invested in the Lemmings' success, like. He does not want to see them lose this game. And when Libby brings home the win, it's a win they share alongside each other.

Tellingly, as the Lemmings are celebrating their championship victory, Molly and Scratch are situated in the stands, apart from the group. A part of their own team. Molly even echoes this sentiment back to Scratch, vis-a-vis her aim to inspire confidence in the Lemmings: "We did it."

This level of support from Scratch is not consistent yet (he pretty immediately reverts to professing disengagement from Molly and her family in the very next episode), but I was so surprised to see it here this plainly. I guess that's the power of sports!

[dollypopup]

People who are saying 'it's so sad/annoying that Eloise never realized Penelope was in love with Colin!' and then using that to villify her and claim she was a bad friend to Penelope are. . .so missing the point.

WE know because we see much of the show through Penelope's eyes. Debling knew because Cressida told him. Cressida knew because she had a vested interest in that being the narrative. Violet knew because Colin very obviously asked her about friendship and love, and has a grand total of ONE woman he could have been talking about.

It is not on Eloise to assume truths about Penelope.

Read that again.

It is NOT on Eloise to assume truths about Penelope!

In the same way it was not on COLIN to assume Pen had a crush on him. The thing about trust is that you HOPE that the person you care about will open up to you, and in fact, it is GOOD that Eloise didn't notice. It doesn't mean she was a bad friend, or self centered, but rather that she was of the belief that her friend would be open with her.

That's not unreasonable of her.

How is Eloise meant to listen to a fact that is never voiced, and in fact, is actively denied?

Eloise asked Penelope in Season 2 if she would ever know what it was like to have a crush on someone, the way she had on Theo. Penelope told her STRAIGHT UP "no, I wouldn't know". What did you want Eloise to do? Accuse Penelope of being a liar and then proclaim she was clearly in love with her brother?

Same with Lady Whistledown- Penelope assured multiple times she wasn't LW to Eloise because when Eloise was talking about her, and having theories, and going on a detective chase about it, Penelope never told her she was LW.

The fact that Eloise HAD to assume these things about Penelope was an indication the friendship had problems. And these problems are tied up in Penelope's arc: coming into the light and living her authenticity unapologetically. Because she kept so much close to the chest for so long. 'Eloise didn't listen'. Penelope never SAID ANYTHING about it for her to listen TO.

Now, does that mean Eloise is blameless and saintly and good? No. That would be lame and boring and would do her a disservice in being a complex, interesting female character. The way near all the women in this show are. The truth is that BOTH Eloise AND Penelope were wrapped up in the immediacy of their own lives, and had different goals and interests from one another. In many ways, Eloise and Penelope were together by proximity, rather than aligned in purpose.

But also. . .we are ALL more invested in our own lives than those of our friends. We care for our friends, yes, but we live our own lives first and foremost. And when we have friendships, we trust that they will talk to us about their lives, their truths, their passions, and their hopes and that we will celebrate such with them. Whilst Eloise has ignored Penelope at times, Penelope has also ignored Eloise. Eloise has assumed Penelope to have the same interests in feminism and not in marriage as she does, but Penelope does not talk to her otherwise until they have a fight about it.

It explodes out of her. Comes out, almost against her will.

They have issues communicating. That's relatable.

But people don't want to see the relatability of these women. They want to compare them and pit them against each other, instead of trying to understand BOTH of them.

Listen, the truth is that this fandom has a misogyny problem. We only want to empathize with the woman we see as the most relatable for our own viewing, and any other woman who is in any way contesting their immediate happiness is turned into a villain. In fact, in Polin, it's extended to ANYONE who has done Penelope any form of disservice ever, as if tension and conflict isn't what drives a narrative.

Colin said one thing that was hurtful to Pen? Burn him at the stake. Eloise is hurt by Penelope's secrecy? Well, she should have listened more, and fuck her, she was a bad friend. Marina told Penelope to butt out of her relationship and to stay in her lane? She's evil and cruel and treated Pen horribly. Penelope never did anything wrong, everyone else is the problem.

This denies Penelope her own accountability, her own narrative of growth, firstly,

But secondly, ALL the women in this show have compelling reasons for acting the way they do. Not just the one you like the most.

I see people talking about how they feel so bad for Penelope, that she has undergone so much and has no one to really confide in, that she feels she has no friend with which to unburden herself with: but the same is true for Eloise. She had no one to talk to about the pain and grief she experienced at the end of Season 2, and kept mum about Penelope's identity as LW all throughout. The same was true for Marina, who had been Otherized from the moment she stepped into the ton, and had been physically and emotionally abused by her own family as she faced down a future of potential misery. Why can you see and sympathize from one character's perspective and yet not the other? Why is it okay to proclaim one a villain, and the other an innocent?

If you can feel empathy for Penelope, you better be ready to feel it for Eloise, for Cressida, for Marina, for Kate and Edwina, because ALL these women underwent some very painful circumstances in their lives, and all of them made mistakes that resulted in other people getting hurt. They have all been hero in their own story, and the antagonist in another. As we all are.

How ironic to see 'well, Eloise is terrible because she's' not seeing it from HER perspective!'

when we are doing the same

[valkyriestan]

The fact that e|riels seem to not even acknowledge that gwynriel could be a thing simply astounds me. They keep trying to ignore the BC which is the first time we even get into Az’d head. Okay let’s say Elriel is endgame so what is the point of gwyn even being given that sort of page time in Az’s bonus chapter? Even without gwyn if SJM wanted to explore elriel there is enough conflict and angst that is already set up. We have elain being mated to lucien, the fact that Rhys basically forbades it (their oh so forbidden love trope which would all be over minute Elain makes her choice and rejects her mate and of course lucien will never force her to be with him) but even then there is enough angst and conflict built up for elriel with having to deal with the rejection or what az might feel about Elain being mated to another and the political ramifications of it all and also the fact that az and mor thing is still unresolved, so with all of this why would gwyn get page time in his bc if she is just a red herring? Don’t we already have unresolved issues with lucien and mor? Okay let’s say it is all just friendly (which reading the text doesn’t give that vibe whatsoever) what do gwyn or Azriel contribute to each other’s story (as friends?). She started her healing journey with her valkyries, he calls her hardly a friend (which Elriels like to be loud about) and Azriel has so many other ppl he is close to and if Sarah went down the elriel route then they’ll heal together, so what do they even bring to each other’s story to warrant page time in az’s pov. They have a brief history sure but why would a friendship angle even be set for them? As elriels like to say gwyn is just a side character and that’s it. Okay let’s say she is an evil light singer - there are so many things wrong with this theory. First off the fact that nesta finds her healing through her friendship with the valkyries, gwyn is literally an SA survivor who has gone through shit, Sarah loves valkyries and she was inspired through her own friendship, the fact that she has literally said any character associated with music can’t be evil because she loves music and the biggest WHY WOULD WE EVEN NEED AN EVIL LIGHTSINGER when you literally have other strong villains? Why would elriel even need an evil light singer for plot when they literally have so much conflict and other villains to fight already? Why would Sarah highlight gwynriels reactions to each other in ACOSF? Why do his shadows behave differently around her? If she is just a side character why is there so much to know about her? Her heritage, her powers etc? What would she bring to az’s story if she is not a villain or an unnecessary red herring unless she is his love interest of course and currently he is still pining (if you could call it that) for Elain so unless she is his end game there is no point to link gwyn with Azriel (which Sarah has no matter how much you deny it). That page time could have been easily given to mor (with things that are still unresolved between them) or emerie - who might be connected to the Illyrian plot instead of gwyn. Sarah is literally setting gwyn up for her own story with az the same way she has set up lucien with all his plots and we will get his story with Elain. Like if rejection is what she wanted to explore why Lucien (when he already lost someone who thought was his mate?)? Why has she not even explored the mating bond yet? He is literally a good guy so why should a well written MMC be rejected when they haven’t even explored the bond, he literally has done no wrong to Elain, as much as there has been buildup for Elriel there has been buildup for elucien as well. Both Elain and lucien have their own story arcs and for Elain to reject without any actual explanation as to why or without exploring the bond would just be bad writing and super disappointing. (Not to mention the fact that there have been subtle moments where we have seen Elain and lucien care about the other).

[hollowtones]

what'd you think about jade shadows?

I put it under a read-more because I don't know how to talk about this without talking about spoiler stuff. The tl;dr is "I liked it but I wish there was a little bit more."

One of the things I didn't like isn't even really part of the quest itself, but I saw a mutual bring it up a few days ago & it's been on my mind since: it feels a little odd to have a content warning before your sidequest, and then not give you any way to skip the quest if it's content you don't think you'd be able to handle. Especially given there's a whole event & rewards that only unlock afterwards!!

OK on to the contents of the quest itself. There's a lot of themes of love and connection and empathy in the face of systemic cruelty or indifference, in this game in general, and a lot of how that manifests is stories about characters fighting for self-determination and agency (the Ostrons trying to stay free of the Grineer, the Solaris trying to destroy the systems that keep them in debt & deny them bodily autonomy, Umbra, the Tenno, the Lotus, etc etc).

I think it's interesting to try and explore a tragedy where we aren't able to help someone in time, where the powers that be have brutalized someone and we as individuals aren't able to get there in the nick of time & help them claw their agency back. I think it's an interesting thematic & emotional through-line (with very strong parallels to Ordis... very smart choice to make him the event vendor / narrator, I'm feasting good on all the new dialogue LOL), and I think there have been enough well-written woman characters in the game that don't get written out or killed for the sake of some man's tragedy or growth that I don't immediately roll my eyes about them trying a So Sad The Woman Dies story.

I do also think this would have hit harder if we got more information about Jade herself!! I realize "this woman broke a law and was completely dehumanized / made into a Thing by the empire, stripping her of herself to suit their ends" is Kind Of The Point, and they make enough of a fuss about "wow there's a lot that's redacted about her history, huh!" that I assume this is a plot thread they're leaving hanging for later. But I feel like the big moment would have resonated better if they gave us a little more info to establish this character, other than "she was heterosexual" and "the Orokin were fucked up, don't forget" haha.

(I do find it funny that the storyline about Ballas, who got Divorced So Badly that he Caused Nearly All Of Today's Problems, is all wrapped up, but the story keeps going "no no, don't worry, there's still plenty of opportunity to remind you how fucked the Orokin were." Here's these two people that broke some insipid law about conceiving a child & so their bosses and leaders broke their brains and turned them into bio-weapon lapdogs as punishment. Every time they go "BTW Something Was Deeply Wrong With The Orokin & We Still Feel The Aftershock Of That Today" I clap my hands like a seal.)

Warframe Babies Are Born!!!!! This little tyke is fuckin weird. What's their problem. I think it's weird and cool. I don't really feel much about "this character is a parent now!" type of storylines. (I did pop off when Stalker got to do his shithead honourable samurai defending a child with one arm thing. I'm a sucker for that & they made it coooooool. It feels like they're setting up some kind of "Lone Wolf and Cub" situation. The scythe being juiced up with BabysPower was also funny.) The baby thing is neat to me from the perspective of, like... This is something weird and new that's never happened before in this universe. That's exciting and kind of scary! I'm interested to see where they go with that. (Presumably in a year or two. Very funny to drop this on us when a completely different major story arc is right around the corner with 1999.)

Gianni's delivery was fuckin killer. I'm excited for whatever next arc they do with Stalker if it means they're gonna pay my boy to grunt and yell and scream more. It feels very strange to be acquainted with two people who've done voice acting in "Warframe" now. Me next? ^_^

I like our new Corpus weirdo. I hope she comes back. Fun to get more stuff with the Sisters of Parvos & with Mr. Granum himself. But I liked her a lot. It got a fuckin laugh out of me to have her through all the quest excited about her big promotion that she's going to get & resolving that with "Is that a fuckin baby??? Fuuuuuck! They don't pay me enough to shoot a baby with a gatling gun!" I wish her ending scene was a little more than just stoically standing aside but literally anything else I can think of feels way too cheesy or on-the-nose.

The facial animations on the Operator were really fuckin weird. I just remembered that. I thought that was just a thing on my end but I watched someone else play & the faces looked weird for them too.

Hunhow's a good inclusion. I like him seeing the Stalker stewing in his own misery because he hates the only people that could offer him help & going "aw man, c'mon buster, don't be like me now." I like his signature that he puts in his emails. I like that he's still an emotionally constipated weirdo that hates us but is still endeared to us in some way. (They make nods to The New Strange in his ending email, which makes sense given that this also feels like a quest setting up More Weird Shit In The Future, but I do get a laugh that it also reads as "JADE WAS PREGNANT? OKAY... WELL. DON'T FORGET THAT I HAVE A WOMB TOO, KID." Thanks Grandpa. Love you too Grandpa. Thanks for the sweeties Grandpa.)

The event quest feels like a nice bow on top. I like the parallels between Jade and Ordis. Wanting to afford her the dignity in death he could never be given. Acknowledgement of Ordan Karris is fun!!! (The line about him being conflicted with the thought of Granum un-cephalon'ing him has me rubbing my hands together.) I'm excited that we're getting so much of Parvos Granum lately. What a shit head. It's funny to see him so hyped up about Ordan. "Duuuude! Your history's famous killer!! That's awesome? Do you wanna work for me? C'monnnnn we both hate the legacy of the Orokin. Wouldn't it be awesome if MY rule was the one dehumanizing you and wielding you as a weapon instead?" This is something they've been establishing as early as "Parvos and Ballas in bed with one another doing shady back-room deals over a Warframe bodyguard and specter particle research" but it's fun whenever they sow the seeds of Parvos being so much like the Orokin he hated.

I wrote more than I thought I was going to!!! I like the thematic through-line idea of this quest but I wish they executed on it better. I like the stuff this is presumably establishing for the future. I really like the event quest as... not quite an epilogue, I guess, but as an addition. Other than that I thought it was okay! I wasn't expecting anywhere near the level of Whispers in the Walls, but that quest being such a high bar makes a "pretty okay" quest stick out to me a little, haha.

[leolithe]

Something I find really interesting about the Lotus' dialogue after the Lotus Eaters is her use of the word 'witch'.

"I was the Daughter. I became the Mother. In time, I shall be the Witch, blind once again, empty of all but wisdom." -Lotus

'Witch' has very specific connotations. Close enough to another similar word that I can't help but feel like it has to be a deliberate reference to the Triple Goddess ─ Maiden, Mother, Crone. These are figures from neopaganism that symbolizes the stages of a woman's life. Eleanor (proto-Nyx) even outright calls her the triple-faced goddess. While it definitely could just refer to Lotus, Margulis and Natah, what if we have yet to see her final form?

She was first Natah, the daughter of Hunhow. Then she assimilated Margulis' form and became the Lotus, mother to the Tenno. And now, she is to be the witch. Even urging us not to mourn should she turn into something we don't recognize. I'm very excited to see what exactly that will look like for her and how her role could potentially change. The quest made a point that the Operator will be staying behind while Drifter is the one chosen for the quest to 1999. Maybe instead of the mother-child dynamic that we've had for a decade, we'll get to see what kind of relationship she might have with the Drifter (<-copium)

I'm not much of a Greek Myth Lorehead but I've read up a bit on The Triple Goddess Hecate (who I've been told that, in Hades 2, was voiced by Amelia Tyler... who is now also voicing our dear Eleanor Nightingale. Worth mentioning cuz u just know rebb was kicking her feet and giggling at being able to pull that together). Hecate's status as a gatekeeper type figure, as i understand it, is very interesting when u apply it to the Lotus...

I'm just thinking about how meta the whole "Lotus' ascent to godhood" plot thread is. It's like a direct parallel to her voice actress' "intern to creative director" journey LMAO. It's a bloody golden opportunity and i hope they're cashing all in on Goddess!Lotus and everything it'll entail...

Not to mention lorewise and what it means for the Lotus' own arc!! To be someone constantly being pulled around by others to fulfil their own purposes, having her own wants neglected, shamed, belittled... To becoming a Witch/Crone/Gatekeeper a la Hecate -- now the one potentially capable of denying or approving others' needs and goals...? Ugh, that's so fucking JUICY. What a bloody incredible character.

Lotus mentions becoming "empty of all but wisdom", and I've seen someone theorize that she'll become even more emotionless and distant as a shield against Wally because it thrives on emotions. This theory scares me because it could very well happen... Not like Space Mom already has a history of being distant and reluctant to tell us how she's feeling... *Sniffles*...

There's also the theories about assigning Natah/Lotus/Margulis as the Maiden/Mother/Crone...

The most surface level reading would be Margulis = Maiden, Lotus = Mother, Natah = Crone, but imo when people make this read they're kinda hinging on their appearances lol. Pretty Margulis, "Ugly" Natah... Maybe even just "Good mom who can do no wrong" and "evil Sentient who led part of an assault on the Origin System".

I would like to think that it isn't that shallow, buuuut their personalities do fit the bill when u bring the "phases of a woman's life" theme to it.

Margulis' naivete, or the shattering of it, as the Maiden:

"No, Ballas, no more destruction. Maybe they're meant to save us."

"You lied to me, Ballas. You're no different than the rest of them."

Natah's headstrong wisdom, or her desire for it, as the Crone:

"I am the witness, the victim, the judge. My family has returned. Your trial, soon to begin."

"The times ahead will need decisiveness. Power."

And Natah does die in TNW. Her death is a very big part of the quest lol. The "End of life" theming of the Crone fits her very well... And the very first "gatekeeper/crone judges and makes the decision for you" thing she did was killing ballas. So i get it!

Inversely... You could also assign Natah as the Maiden and Margulis as the Mother because of the simple "Natah was the Daughter, now I am the Mother" quote. After all, Lotus before TNW was living very much under Margulis' shadow, assimilating into her like you mentioned. This read leaves Lotus to be the Crone; the empty, wise Witch we have yet to see.

The more i write this the more I wanna say: Damn. These 3 were always meant to converge into each other. Their stories are all sides of each others' respective coins and it almost feels arbitrary to chuck them into strict roles, even if symbolic.

I definitely think we're gonna see her "Triple Goddess Final Form" in the future. It's too good a story beat. Too sexy. DE HAS to do it. I have my platinum ready. Give me all the skins.

As for the DrifterLotus copium....... Hehehe. I don't think DE will ever do anything romantic/sexual with them. i think they're just gonna cap their relationship off at "they care immensely for each other" because they might be concerned about the questionable pseudo incest implications looming over anything to do with Lotus and the Tenno.

Like don't get me wrong; Drifter is their own person and Lotus of all people would be comfortable with the concept of "people having identical faces won't make them the same person". I just feel like DE might not be willing to play with them in that way. For perfectly understandable reasons... The Player Tenno are very much "colouring book" characters for the OC lovers so it seems smart to keep them relatively open-ended.

But. Don't worry. Check my AO3 at the end of the week. I hope you'll find something that brings u even a little bit of cheer ;3