#luz criticism

[averysherwood]

Lumity: wasted potential of the show

Lumity isn't as bad as Huntlow. They were planned since the beginning, they had time for development, even if it was a bit rushed. But they still have writing problems that we should address:

1. Amity's character almost dissapeared. During first season she was the most interesting character out of all, despite the fact that her arc was rushed and involved retcone. But after her redemption, she turned into sweet awkward nerdy girl. It's not realistic in any way to become completely different person in a couple of months, and it also made her boring. She's the second of three ex-villians who got the same new characterisation, which is bad by itself, but she also lost her special chemistry with Luz which we saw in Grom episode. This episode was Lumity's peak you can't deny it

2. Amity is just Luz's gf and nothing more. She has nothing to wish except being with Luz and seeing her being happy. No ambitions, no goals, no new friends. Just Luz. She thinks only about her, she talks only about her, she does everything only when it's about Luz. Only exception is Reaching Out, but it was also turned into Luz's thing. As much as I hate Huntlow, Hunter at least had something except love for Willow. It's bad not only because it makes Lumity a copy of awful mlw couple trope, it also doesn't show hurmful tendency (dependence on a partner and being obsessed with them) as something bad.

3. Lumity made Luz look bad. You know, dating your first friend's ex bestie and ex main bully is kinda messed up. It wouldn't be that problematic if Willow and Amity had already become friends again, but it's not what we've got.

4. Mistrust between Luz and Amity. I agree that the reason is that Luz is a bully victim and Amity reacted hurshly several times when Luz did something wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that it shows another hurmful idea that good partner has to forgive every bad thing and in the wrong for being offended. This moment of Amity would be cute if it appeared ones and clearly showed that she has changed and now she's much more patient with Luz. But in canon, Amity just allows Luz to treat herself like shit bu lying to her (and not only her) over and over again. And Luz lying three times (even if lie about Belos is justified) about things that are important for their shared future and for Amity's safety don't paint her in a good light. There's a line between not being too hursh to partner when they did something wrong and being a doormat for a partner because you were wrong in the past.

5. Imbalance in the effort invested in the relationship. As it is clear from my points that I made earlier, Luz is everything to Amity, while Amity for Luz is just a girlfriend. Amity's doing everything for Luz (which is not good), while Luz isn't even prioritize saving Amity over just being with Eda. In season three they barely interact at all. And now it isn't about Luz being the wrong one: it wasn't the right time for cute couple stuff. Actually, if you think about it, Luz's attitude towards Amity is much healthier. It's just too miserable to see Amity being Luz's loyal puppy who buried all her goals and ambitions, while Luz treating Amity like she treats other friends.

In conclusion, I don't say that they had to be like catr*dora or stol*z, no way. Healthy relationship should be portrayed in media, especially for kids. But there's the difference between being called healthy and being actually healthy. Lumity isn't abusive, isn't even toxic, it's just not a relationship goal. In the ideal world, their flaws should've been addressed and resolved in the show, so they can actually become healthy couple.

[thousandyearphantombunker]

the collector is an innocent angel/baby and the show reducing him to a kid who doesn't know any better was stupid. We were robbed. We could have gotten the characters having to deal with an all powerful being that has an alien moral code that challenges their own morals (can't classify him on evil more alien/maybe having some of his logic make sense) or forces them to fight against him- but no we got a stupid redemption arc that doesn't work and makes him feel like a horrifying monster

IDC that he didn't know what death was/doesn't understand mortality. He actively hunted down the hexside students with his star thingies to turn them into literal objects that he could play with which traumatized them-and punished Terra Snapdragon by turning her into a puppet after she pissed him off- so he clearly understands that people hate being puppets don't give me that 'he doesn't understand' shit. He used fear to control Odalia (who I don't even like but omfg he's fucking evil to do that) being turned into a puppet was an INTENTIONAL threat on his part. Also the nightmare sequence... He shows Eda a world where she further maimed/crippled her father blinding him completely with her sister hunting her down- he was actively controlling the nightmare so he knew what she was going through. He knows what Maiming is. His friendship with king wasn't cute. It would have been one thing if he just ran on a completely different moral compass and that's why he didn't take death seriously because of that/letting him be a complex character who forces the characters to question their own morals or maybe not question their own beliefs but have to contend with his nonsense while trying to maintain their own morality/deal with an all powerful god but the show took the cheap way out and it actually made him feel more evil to me. Because even if he doesn't understand death he cares about people/has normal morality.

Idk if I articulated any of that well but the collector sucks as a character to me

Just for fun what would you say is your most unpopular toh opinion that a good chunk of the fandom seems to disagree with you on?

So basically an opinion that normally makes other toh fans react to you like this lol.

[guardianjameslight]

gO wOkE gO bRoKe, then explain success of these.

And there's more.

[toaverse]

Couples I wish were written better.

[flower-boi16]

Can we talk about the fact that TOH, a kid's show that aired on the Disney channel, has an unironically a better gay/sapphic relationship with Lumity than either of these "adult shows"?

Lumity is an incredibly well-developed ship; Its gradually built up throughout season 1 and season 2A and they don't drag the shit out of it, they are just incredibly cute together. The ship isn't abusive and toxic...

...unlike Stolitz, which is a very toxic ship where the victim is portrayed as the abuser and the abuser is framed as just an UwU soft boy. Another thing about Lumity that makes it a good relationship is the fact that Amity is her own character; she isn't solely defined by Luz, her relationship with Luz is an important part of her character, sure, but she still has a lot of development in the series that makes her a well-developed, three-dimensional character.

Compare that to Chaggie, which while not nearly as bad as Stolitz, still has issues, that being how Vaggie's character entirely revolves around Charlie, she doesn't have any real development outside of that. There is the stuff about her being a fallen angel but we'll have to see what the show does with it to make a full judgment, but the reveal that she is a fallen angel feels too rushed to give her depth.

Vaggie doesn't feel like her own character, she feels like she's completely defined by her relationship with Charlie, and she doesn't have that much of a character outside of that. Amity meanwhile, is her own character beyond her relationship with Luz, even in Season 2 where people say that supposedly Amity became just "Luz's girlfriend", she still had that whole conflict with her parents.

Lumity is infinitely superior to both of these ships guys.

Then again TOH blows HH/HB out of the water in every single aspect so...

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[tentacledsnakelover]

The Treatment of Gus' Understanding of Human Culture

One issue I have with the series is that while the show explores Luz navigating witch culture, we never really got to see Gus explore human culture.

Even when we do see Gus around human items, it is treated like a joke, with Gus acting dumber than one would expect.

I can understand Eda not caring too much about human stuff, since she just ends up hawking it to gullible people for money.

But human culture is Gus' special interest, and I wish the writers took Gus seriously enough to explore that.

I first think that Gus' inaccuracies over human culture are overexaggerated, such as how despite having a magazine on human culture in his debut episode, he somehow thinks braces are nailed to human teeth to make them magnetic. Gus is a prodigy who skipped a few grades, I feel like he could understand why humans have braces.

I can excuse Luz being more ignorant since the knowledge of witches being real was seen as silly when she was growing up, but it seems the Boiling Isles knew and accepted that humans are real. I think Gus would know more about them, since apparently, they can read English, such as when Gus gives Amity a cookbook in Follies at the Coven Day Parade (This also leads to another issue with how it seems Luz can effortlessly make a connection between say how a crystal ball is just a tv, but the witches can't seem to even pronounce phone). This is another instance where Gus is treated like a dummy for a joke, and I wish his intelligence was treated more seriously.

It could have been cool for worldbuilding and his and Luz's characters if we saw them hang out and exchange information about their species and cultures. We could actually get insight into how humans and witches differ in terms of anatomy (I really doubt Gus would actually believe humans have dorsal fins or gills) and culture.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

it always pisses me off when fantasy stories have a cast of conventionally attractive humanoid characters with like,, different colored hair or something. like what do you mean your story is set in this amazing fantastical world with monsters and centaurs and aliens and sentient blobs, but your main cast is just a bunch of average joes?

[randomfanart27]

Six Fanarts Challenge (2024-25)

[nixthelapin]

Anyone else think Marinette’s new outfit is just really bad?

I can’t claim to have that great of an eye for fashion, but this just looks like a tacky performer costume to me- the tights, the jacket looking like a fake tux, right down to the tiny bow tie that’s just sitting on her shirt- rather than an outfit an actual person would wear, especially someone who’s biggest dream is to be a fashion designer. And I don’t really think the pink of her shorts go well with the brown-gray leggings, the colors just feel off to me.

I want to like it, I think it has aspects I enjoy, but overall it just doesn’t do it for me and I kinda hate it.

Idk am I going crazy here? I haven’t seen a ton of discussion about her new design, so it’s hard to say what the general opinion is, but even if the stuff I have seen, it’s usually excitement for it, nothing really negative (design-wise, not about the narrative or overall direction of the show lol). But I’d really like to hear what others think about it.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

I just remembered the "Please. I don't want to see another human life destroyed by this place” line, and honestly did they have scenes of Luz starting to wonder if Belos' had a point and going into the island did destroy her life? If not, they should have had.

No, they did not have Luz ever wonder how the isles affected Belos--except in the storyboards:

Luz still calls him out for trying to destroy the isles and being a hypocrite but there's still that moment of empathy in which she asks point blank: "What do you think they DID to you?!" She briefly contemplates just why someone would go so far to destroy an entire population and what his mindset might be. Unfortunately, this was not included in the final version and Belos' expression is blank instead of pleading.

Then there's this storyboard from For the Future in which Luz, Eda, and King explain to the Collector how people like Amity and Lilith became their friends:

Luz's line about "people being complicated" is in the episode but the entire exchange between her and the Collector is not even though it opens up a lot of interesting ideas and themes. Without it though, the show becomes straight up hypocritical when it states that people are complicated but reduces its villains to generic archetypes and its hero characters as being simply misguided or victims of the villains.

And no, this doesn't mean that the show should have excused Belos' actions or even forgiven him; but they could have and should have acknowledged the complexity of his character by keeping this nuance in and how the characters react to it. By doing so, the message of "people are complicated" becomes clear and strengthens the other characters as well. Luz gets to self-reflect on how she sees other people and learn that even the worst people among us are incredibly complex and have driving forces that are uncomfortably close to our own, thus making it much harder to demonize them. The Collector--instead of being a Giant Star Baby--keeps both his childlike bluntness and keen observational skills that he had in season 2, thus fleshing out the character instead of devolving him.

Regrettably, that nuance is absent from the show and we have a rather black-and-white narrative about Good vs. Evil; people are only ever really "bad" if someone tricked them or if there was a misunderstanding and all the Real Bad People are just selfish jerks who are power hungry and controlling.

This is not compelling storytelling; this is a tale as old as time. And the worst part is that there was a great story in The Owl House but it was left in the rough drafts.

Storyboards by Yasmin Khudari and King Pecora

[cheekybirb]

toh in general is such a poorly written show that had so much potential but doesn't really live up to it. like tbh i think the idea of the owl house is better then the show was. in hollow mind there could've been the chance to explore belos' character more or his past with caleb and instead it's just? surface level stuff??? and i understand disney cancelled toh and they only had a certain amount of episodes left but they seriously could've done better with the time they had left to write it. i realised while trying to write smth about belos before that he doesn't actually have much of a personality???????? like he's just a very empty character that's only really there to serve the role of a villain and nothing more. which okay fine whatever but also most of the other characters also have the same problem where i can't really tell what their personalities are supposed to be. and maybe that's just me being autistic but i seriously think it's just badly written? idk sorry for rambling here im insane but do u understand

That is super true. While I do understand how heavily Disney likes to censor the show overall, it is kinda made to be a slap in the face to Disney and because of that being the focus it made a lot of very important characters very dry when they could have easily done more research and made it show how the queer community is treated rather that "Oh its a queer show! How you like that Disney??"

Like Belos as a character could have been a much scarier and bigger threat if he wasn't a joke. I understand why they kinda wrote him without a personality because many Christians fall into line with the same personality and interests. But that wasn't even explored and therefore was unforfilling.

I really wish they went with a narrative that could really hit home with a lot of people. Like if they made Belos more realistic as a heavy conservative Christian in power. Or even Odalina as an abusive parent and have her drive a wedge between Luz and Amity rather than have her easily beaten and in the background.

The Owl House lacks a story. Like Belos was a villain since s1 without even showing up until later. Like Luz saw the coven system and was like, "This is wrong" with knowing nothing about it or why it's there.

Heck, even Eda could have had better writeing like if she was written that she became against the coven system for a much deeper reason rather then she was just a rule breaker. Instead, maybe have her sister cursing her be the reason. The covens drew a huge wedge between her sister, and that's why she didn't like it rather than "I was just gonna give it to you and I just don't like covens"

Raine could have had a showing in s1 to explore their character more especially their tension with Eda and them wanting to be a coven head.

Luz and Camilla's Hispanic heritage could have had a better representation other than they speak Spanish occasionally.

Gus having a greater impact on Hunter much slower. And overall him having more screen time.

Hunter slowly healing and taking new friendships and relationships slower as he heals from his huge amounts of trauma. (Yes I know the show was canceled, but Hunter immediately had a crush on Willow when they met)

Willow and Amity taking slower to repair their friendship.

Willows design showing more of her half Asian heritage. And show her power getting stronger over time.

Lumity was my biggest upset because they were rushed so quickly. With no flaws or bumps either. I wish their enemies to lovers held more character development for Amity as well as Odalina getting more in the way, maybe isolating her more. Amity also not knowing how to love either because she was treated like a business object.

I also think that Caleb in FtF should have a better effort to haunt the narrative. Like instead of just stare try one last time to convince Belos to stop but Belos doesn't listen.

I also wished Eda and Lilith had more tension with Belos and that they knew about Caleb.

But yeah those are just my thoughts. I still love the show I just wish it could have done better (as someone who is going into film and writing as a career)

[erollhitchens]

While I do love this show I think its kinda disappointing how the writers would just give major injuries to people and not actually explore it at all.

( I just wanna be clear right off the bat I am a fan of this show this isn't a hate post or anything but these certain writing choices did kinda leave a bad taste in my mouth hence why I made this post )

I'm mainly talking about Eda Hunter and Raine

Eda loses an arm and it isn't really explored at all and Hunter and Raine end up with severe scarring over the faces and bodies yet this is only used for cheap in the moment types of storytelling rather than anything that actually gets explored

maybe to help dive into how the characters feel over these traumatic events but no they are basically just used for different character designs and that's it, which is disappointing tbh and feels pretty shallow of the writers.

also there's Luz's tiny eyebrow scar which kinda baffles me tbh as its there its a design change the animators had to remember

but its so tiny and meaningless it may as well not be there and again it doesn't serve a purpose

I could understand if Luz had a more noticeable scar that maybe served to remind her of helping Belos and tied into her depression at the start of season 3 but eventually she learned to not see it as a shameful reminder of her guilt over belos.

or something like that but that isn't really what happened so well its pretty pointless as well.

like I said it just feels a little cheap giving your characters major injuries that could effect you for life realistically both physically and psychologically only to not actually have them mean anything

Not using them to explore your characters feelings more in depth or something like that, like Hunter's scars could have been used to represent some sorta ptsd over flapjacks death in the episodes afterwards or something

maybe if he kept getting reminded of belos and his control over him or that dreadful night due to the scars triggering flashbacks and it could have tied in to him learning to move past it

and Eda was literally given a life changing disability they could have explored this even a tiny bit in season 3

maybe had her have some sorta arc around wondering if she'd still be able to be the same carefree living life on the edge type of person who she was before and eventually realising it doesn't really matter to who she is or how she sees herself overall

but not doing anything with these things and just having them for cheap shock value and character design changes just rubs me the wrong way tbh

and it kinda bugs me how this fandom lets the writers off the hook for these writing choices so easily.

as these things are kinda the definition of badly done angst in my opinion since they exist solely to get a sad or shocked reaction out of the viewers in the moment

but they don't actually serve a purpose in exploring the characters more and helping their overall arcs like I said I love this show but this aspect I find very disappointing tbh.

[daystarvoyage]

Tbh Looks Better Then The owl House, so hoping this lives up well, i do like the artstyle more. Also we can have a discussion & theories how the stories gonna be.

Check out Knights of guinevere By dana terrace, Her Brand New SHOW Coming Soon On Glitch

[flower-boi16]

If TOH Was Written By Vivziepop

For starters, Luz would barely been much of a main focus, despite being the main character since, ya know, she's female

Camila would be an abusive bitch of a mom

Amity would have no personality beyond being "Luz's girlfriend".

Generally, all female characters like Eda, Willow, and Amity would receive little development and focus and only get very one-note character traits

Belos would be woobified and portrayed as a UwU soft boy that we are supposed to sympathize for

Hunter would be demonized and victim blamed for standing up to his poor uncle

Lilith would be a one-dimensional bitch with no depth or personality and remain a villian

The show would have a bunch of rando plotlines crammed in making it unfocused

All the villains would have their depth and nuance removed except for Belos who would again, be woobified

[prisi]

I feel TOH fails a lot with the treatment that Belos and his lore receive towards the end. I think his arc will feel so much more complete if the show was allowed to show us that he suffered in the past and wasn't like "nah he is just pure evil and he has always been like that". I don't like how the show wants you to believe that Caleb did nothing wrong or reprehensible when there's obvious implications that he abandoned Philip to go with Evelyn, it will be so much more interesting that the show recognized that Caleb was naive and selfish in abandoning his brother (who only have him as family and support figure) to his own in the puritan era, and how that action of Caleb deeply damaged Philip emotionally and mentally (kinda like Luz abandoning Camila to live her fantasy in the Boiling Isles without thinking in the consequences (I'm still pissed that she didn't apologize to her mom for running away at the end) but we are not talking about that right now, I love Luz btw don't get mad at me). And Philip, who probably entered the Isles with the sole intention to "save" his brother who at his eyes was bewitched and seduced by an evil witch to go with her, when he finally found his brother after many years and found out that Caleb actually loved Evelyn and DECIDED to leave him behind he totally lost his mind.

A confrontation escene between Philip and Caleb (it could be a flashback or something showed in Hollow Mind even) will be so interesting to watch, something like in the third season of Infinity Train when Simon confronts The Cat for abandoning him as a child, Caleb will try to justify himself at first saying that he is sorry, that he thought Philip was going to be okay on his own, that he didn't thought that he was going to miss him or something, making Philip more angry, sad and confused.

The situation will scale to the point that Philip, (who's original goal was to kill Evelyn to bring back Caleb in the Human Realm) now that he is angry, sad and out of his senses he tries to attack Caleb with the dagger he had in his hand which triggers the knife fight in which Caleb dies.

Philip, after realizing that he killed the only person he had in the world, he tries to justify himself in an internal monologue like: "oh well, I murdered you, but in doing so I freed your soul from the union with that sinful witch. That's what the witch hunting taught me, right? That's what YOU taught me, RIGHT?". Trying to shift the blame for what just happened onto Caleb but also letting us know and acknowledging that it was Caleb who introduced and instructed Philip in the witch hunt and did nothing to reverse it.

Coming to the end, when the fight ends and Belos and Luz are face to face, the scene would play out more or less as we see it in canon but at the moment in which the first drop of boiling rain falls on his hand and begins to see his body dissolve, he enters a mental breakdown in which he realizes that he wasted his entire life on a goal that made no sense, the witches weren't evil or a threat and he knew it, but he clung to his goal because he did not want to face the reality, he did not want to accept that he had killed his brother in vain nor did he want to accept that he had decided to abandon him, and he did not want to die knowing that he wasted 400 years suffering for something that was not worth it. At the end of his collapse he would crawl a little and see Hunter in the distance (because yes, Hunter should have been present in the end even a little), he would try to extend his hand in his direction but Hunter, noticing this, would close his eyes, look away and take a step back behind Eda and Raine. Philip experienced his brother's abandonment again but with the difference that this time it is merely his fault, because even if Caleb damaged Philip deeply with his abandonment, he is not responsable of the path Philip choosed to take.

Seeing and realizing all of this Belos would stop crawling and give up, lying on the ground, breathing hard as the boiling rain finally dissolves him and dies.

Or at least that is how I liked it to happen, let me know what you think.