#lumity criticism

[daystarvoyage]

LUBERTO RAN so Lumity can crawl 💙💚

THANK YOU also we need more boy love stories more on the topic soon

Plenty of people have drawn similarities between Dipcifica (Dipper/Pacifica) of Gravity Falls and Lumity (Luz/Amity) of The Owl House. Some even claim "dipcifica could walk so that lumity could run". Are these ships even comparable?

No, they're not. The only similarities they have are the tropes the ships are built on: Enemies to Lovers, Rich Bitch and Nice Boy/Girl, Pragmatist and Idealist, etc. Even then, only one of these ships actually deals with said tropes and it's not Lumity.

The key difference is how these characters are treated in canon; Pacifica is allowed to be an antagonist until we learn her story and watch how her perspective shifts. Her personality doesn't change, but she's less bitchy now and is willing to help the Pines twins. Amity is an antagonist for...what? one episode? before she starts pining (heh) for Luz. Amity's wealth and status also isn't a key part of her character like it is with Pacifica, it's just there. She could've been middle class and her family dynamics wouldn't change much.

Although the biggest difference though is that Lumity is a canon ship and Dipcifica is a fanon one. Dipper and Pacifica are allowed to be characters in their own right with no goal of making them a couple so the fans can be free to do what they want. Lumity is canon and regrettably, the show didn't distinguish Amity from Luz, just gave them more similarities until it seemed like Amity sacrificed her personality in order to be the Perfect Girlfriend. So fans can't actually explore character dynamics in fics or fan art, just angst or cuteness (and that apparently doesn't seem to be an issue).

[averysherwood]

Lumity: wasted potential of the show

Lumity isn't as bad as Huntlow. They were planned since the beginning, they had time for development, even if it was a bit rushed. But they still have writing problems that we should address:

1. Amity's character almost dissapeared. During first season she was the most interesting character out of all, despite the fact that her arc was rushed and involved retcone. But after her redemption, she turned into sweet awkward nerdy girl. It's not realistic in any way to become completely different person in a couple of months, and it also made her boring. She's the second of three ex-villians who got the same new characterisation, which is bad by itself, but she also lost her special chemistry with Luz which we saw in Grom episode. This episode was Lumity's peak you can't deny it

2. Amity is just Luz's gf and nothing more. She has nothing to wish except being with Luz and seeing her being happy. No ambitions, no goals, no new friends. Just Luz. She thinks only about her, she talks only about her, she does everything only when it's about Luz. Only exception is Reaching Out, but it was also turned into Luz's thing. As much as I hate Huntlow, Hunter at least had something except love for Willow. It's bad not only because it makes Lumity a copy of awful mlw couple trope, it also doesn't show hurmful tendency (dependence on a partner and being obsessed with them) as something bad.

3. Lumity made Luz look bad. You know, dating your first friend's ex bestie and ex main bully is kinda messed up. It wouldn't be that problematic if Willow and Amity had already become friends again, but it's not what we've got.

4. Mistrust between Luz and Amity. I agree that the reason is that Luz is a bully victim and Amity reacted hurshly several times when Luz did something wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that it shows another hurmful idea that good partner has to forgive every bad thing and in the wrong for being offended. This moment of Amity would be cute if it appeared ones and clearly showed that she has changed and now she's much more patient with Luz. But in canon, Amity just allows Luz to treat herself like shit bu lying to her (and not only her) over and over again. And Luz lying three times (even if lie about Belos is justified) about things that are important for their shared future and for Amity's safety don't paint her in a good light. There's a line between not being too hursh to partner when they did something wrong and being a doormat for a partner because you were wrong in the past.

5. Imbalance in the effort invested in the relationship. As it is clear from my points that I made earlier, Luz is everything to Amity, while Amity for Luz is just a girlfriend. Amity's doing everything for Luz (which is not good), while Luz isn't even prioritize saving Amity over just being with Eda. In season three they barely interact at all. And now it isn't about Luz being the wrong one: it wasn't the right time for cute couple stuff. Actually, if you think about it, Luz's attitude towards Amity is much healthier. It's just too miserable to see Amity being Luz's loyal puppy who buried all her goals and ambitions, while Luz treating Amity like she treats other friends.

In conclusion, I don't say that they had to be like catr*dora or stol*z, no way. Healthy relationship should be portrayed in media, especially for kids. But there's the difference between being called healthy and being actually healthy. Lumity isn't abusive, isn't even toxic, it's just not a relationship goal. In the ideal world, their flaws should've been addressed and resolved in the show, so they can actually become healthy couple.

[stanlunter]

Lumity isn't toxic, but it isn't healthy either...

One of the problems with Lumity is that Luz and Amity started dating, when their friendship was still kinda in its starting phase, and they barely knew each other. (They only know that they both like the same fantasy stories and Amity came from a messed up family.)

Another thing is that I think Luz is secretly kinda afraid of Amity or at least afraid of disappointing her, because Green-Haired Amity gave Luz a hard time over mistakes, even ones that aren't Luz's fault. Luz even cried once in Season 2, cause Amity made Luz feel guilty over Amity losing her library job. Even during the episode where Luz confesses her feelings, Luz is scared Amity is gonna be mean to her again.

That's why Luz kept secrets from Amity, because Luz doesn't want Amity to blame her again and/or break up with her.

Meanwhile with Amity, after Amity dyes her hair purple, her personality changes almost completely. Amity almost never gets angry with Luz now. She also is obsessed with being Luz's awesome girlfriend.

I think Purple-Haired Amity is patient with Luz now, cause when Amity saw Luz cry, she realizes how much she is hurting Luz with her words. Probably like her Mom does with her. Amity doesn't want to act like her Mom anymore.

Which is nice, but Amity doesn't know how to be her own person anymore. She went from being the person that her Mom wants her to be, to being the person she thinks Luz would want. Amity should figure out who she wants to be, before entering a romantic relationship. ^_^;

Yes, thank you! I absolutely agree

I've also heard a thought that the way Luz was basically scared of Amity is bc Luz was bullied herself and, as a former-bully, Amity reminds Luz of those who bullied her, so she's afraid of being "weird" towards Amity and can't be herself with her

I don't think I can tell she exactly "can't be herself", but all her embarassing blushings do make it look so, since she can't be relaxes and chill around Amity, she's too worrying and it also leads to the fact that Luz doesn't trust Amity, bc she's afraid to be disappointing, to show her flawsa and to be comfortable, which, Imo, is sad

So their relationship doesn't look like a "goal relationship" to me

[polygnosticu]

Lumity is not the ideal relationship that its stans keep pushing it as. It's not even a relationship. It's two children crushing on each other. And like all teen crushes it got real old real fast for the participants. Luz now lies to Amity habitually and has withdrawn herself emotionally from Amity. By the time we reached the end of the series Luz was prepared to walk away from the Demon Realm entirely leaving everyone there, including Amity, die or worse at the hands of Belos and the Collector.

Just for fun what would you say is your most unpopular toh opinion that a good chunk of the fandom seems to disagree with you on?

So basically an opinion that normally makes other toh fans react to you like this lol.

[mebssann]

Amity pestered Principal Bump enough times that he finally allowed Hexside to have a student council

[flower-boi16]

Can we talk about the fact that TOH, a kid's show that aired on the Disney channel, has an unironically a better gay/sapphic relationship with Lumity than either of these "adult shows"?

Lumity is an incredibly well-developed ship; Its gradually built up throughout season 1 and season 2A and they don't drag the shit out of it, they are just incredibly cute together. The ship isn't abusive and toxic...

...unlike Stolitz, which is a very toxic ship where the victim is portrayed as the abuser and the abuser is framed as just an UwU soft boy. Another thing about Lumity that makes it a good relationship is the fact that Amity is her own character; she isn't solely defined by Luz, her relationship with Luz is an important part of her character, sure, but she still has a lot of development in the series that makes her a well-developed, three-dimensional character.

Compare that to Chaggie, which while not nearly as bad as Stolitz, still has issues, that being how Vaggie's character entirely revolves around Charlie, she doesn't have any real development outside of that. There is the stuff about her being a fallen angel but we'll have to see what the show does with it to make a full judgment, but the reveal that she is a fallen angel feels too rushed to give her depth.

Vaggie doesn't feel like her own character, she feels like she's completely defined by her relationship with Charlie, and she doesn't have that much of a character outside of that. Amity meanwhile, is her own character beyond her relationship with Luz, even in Season 2 where people say that supposedly Amity became just "Luz's girlfriend", she still had that whole conflict with her parents.

Lumity is infinitely superior to both of these ships guys.

Then again TOH blows HH/HB out of the water in every single aspect so...

[novelsandnewfies]

I’ve never been super into the ❤️💙 ships. Couldn’t figure out why but they never hit home for me

But now. Now I SEE

I am a 💜💚 shipper

[toaverse]

Couples I wish were written better.

[predictablesloth]

❗️The Election & Representation in Film❗️

Aka we're about to loose all our queer rep.

-> Before November 6, after the Agatha All Along finale, I told my friend that no matter my opinion on the last episode, I was taking it as a win, because the Agatha/Rio kiss could be the last sapphic, live action kiss to air on television.

-> Because the far right politicians who will soon control our government approve book bans in their respective states, there's every reason to suspect that they'll try to pass bans on the gay ass content Hollywood puts out.

-> If you can, get cds or dvds (or torrents, ends justify the means) of your favorite queer, feminist, and generally social justice-oriented digital media, such as music, movies, and tv shows. Documentaries and children's programs especially.

-> If you have the means to, purchase them directly from the source to show monetary interest.

-> If you want that renewal, that next season, to see a ship get together finally, or just to not get brainwashed by white supremacists, then join in the fight.

-> Otherwise, it won't just be homophobic executives blocking projects, the law will be too.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[polygnosticu]

Hi! l saw your comments in a post you were saying something like how Luz abandoned the others. l was wondering your thoughts on this and especially about the relationship between Lumity.

My thoughts are that Luz isn't the character that her stans want her to be. She's not a good person.

In Thanks to Them Luz was shown being prepared to abandon her Hexside friends as well as the entire Demon Realm to their fates at the hands of Belos and the Collector. She had made this decision without discussing it with any of them with the intention of not telling them until the last possible second when they couldn't do anything about it. The only thing that saved everybody was Camila's intervention.

This was an unconscionable act of cruelty on Luz' part and proves a hypothesis I had about Luz from her first appearance. Luz never took the Boiling Isles and the people who live there seriously. She treated the place like her own personal fantasyland and the people who lived there as NPCs in her self insert fan fic. We can see this in how Luz based all of her decisions there in reference to Azura. Her only interest in Amity was how she served as Hecate to her Azura and wanted to befriend her on that basis rather than learn anything about her as a person.

She interfered with Willow's life and violated her boundaries trying to fit Willow into her Azura fantasy model. In both Understanding Willow and Wing it Like Witches Willow asked Luz not to interfere with her decisions on how she handled her problems. In both cases Luz ignored Willow in favor of her Azura fantasy and Willow suffered as a result. After Luz did this a second time Willow walked away from the friendship. Luz had to work her butt off to earn back Willow's trust and friendship.

Luz was fine with playing in the Boiling Isles as long as it was fun and things were going her way. When Belos and the Collector showed up and things started getting serious and people started getting hurt Luz turned her back on the place and ran. She was prepared to abandon the entire enterprise because she never saw the Boiling Isles as a real place with real people and real problems.

Lumity isn't a relationship. It's a mutual crush between two fourteen year old children. They are not in love with each other because they are both too young and too emotionally damaged to even know what that means. Prior to Lumity neither Luz nor Amity has even had a successful friendship with anyone much less a full romantic commitment yet stans want to see Lumity as this perfect relationship that will last the two of them to the grave.

Luz is crushing on Amity and does not take her seriously. Luz is fine with the fun parts of crushing on Amity but when things get serious Luz is actively cruel to Amity. Luz lies to Amity repeatedly even though Amity knows Luz is lying to her and has asked her to stop. Luz didn't stop. Luz emotionally abandons Amity and seeks comfort in Hunter in whom she confides her secrets rather than Amity. In real life this behavior would be considered emotional abuse.

Amity has become codependent on Luz. Amity has given up every other aspect of her life to become Luz' awesome girlfriend. Amity no longer even challenges Luz the way she did in Lost in Language and Adventures in the Elements. When Eda did these things to Raine, Raine walked away from the relationship. Raine loved Eda but wouldn't tolerate Eda lying to them. Willow walked away from Luz when Luz violated her boundaries. Twice. Amity doesn't walk away from Luz despite being obviously hurt by Luz' lies. She is in a complete state of codependency on Luz. We've seen that other people don't tolerate this behavior from Luz. Amity does.

So these are my thoughts. If you have any questions or thoughts of your own to contribute, by all means feel free.

[stanlunter]

I personally don't like Lumity for a few reasons... 1. It kinda makes Luz a terrible friend to Willow, since Luz is befriending Willow's bully (and former friend) behind her back...

2. Luz loses her backbone almost whenever Amity is angry at her, while Luz's rivalry with Hunter felt more equal cause they get angry at each other and Luz isn't afraid to call out Hunter on his crap (unlike with Amity, where Luz doesn't even get angry at her that much for burning Willow's picture memories). Considering how much of a jerk Amity was to Luz before she dyed her hair purple, it's no wonder Luz kept secrets from her and told Hunter instead...

3. Amity's romantic feelings for Luz make no sense. At first, she hated Luz for getting her in trouble in school and for being a human that lacks magical powers. But then Luz gains Amity's respect, when Luz reveals that she can do magic spells in a different way... So yeah, it would make sense for Luz to gain Amity's respect and later maybe friendship. But Amity gaining a crush and slowly becoming obsessed with the human (who's species that she hated) that keeps getting her in trouble is pretty unrealistic. They also had to almost completely change Amity's personality after she made her hair purple, so that Amity can act like 'Luz's 1# Fangirl' while they're dating... They could've at least given Amity a new dream, since she's an ambitious girl and she can't be in the Emperor's Coven anymore! ಠ_ಠ

Sorry for the long answer

But I absolutely agree!

I swear, I LOVE the potential Lumity had, but its realization really makes me cry. Especially since there are not so many well-written AND interesting supphic couples in media and the way they absolutely ruined even this one (which really could be handled so easily) is really sad. If I had to rewrite toh, Lumity would have been changed the most

[wylldebee]

Nobody: Nobody, not a single person: Me about to share my hundreds of headcanons and AUs about my various OTPS:

[mr-damian-s-power]

Amity doesn't feel like her own person anymore

I feel that the post I made about Amity yesterday that I deleted could have been worded differently. That was the issue with it, I think! People saw the word 'co-dependant' and assumed the worst of me, despite me clarifying that I wasn't stating it as fact. I was even debating telling my true feelings on Amity because I know how people are with their favourite characters. How about I put it more like the title?

What was Amity's character post-S1? She....loves Luz, she wants to spend all of her time with Luz, aaaaaaand.....she's got daddy issues! Hey look, something not related to Luz! But do you see my issue? She doesn't seem to have much to do aside from love Luz and occasionally deal with her crap homelife. I used to think people were exaggerating when they said that Amity is just 'Luz's girlfriend', but I really do think she devolved into just that.

Also, what do the loving pair actually have in common? They...both like Azura! That's it as far as I can tell. But even then, Luz is clearly more into it, while Amity may just have a fleeting interest.

The main issue I see with Amity is that I can't really imagine her on her own. I can't picture her without Luz right there. She's so intertwined with Luz, she's practically been absorbed into her and hangs off like a giant tumour.

Here's my sad point that I thought only I held, until I saw someone else say almost verbatim what I thought. Amity loves Luz more than anything. She gave up everything to be with Luz. She has no goals or ambitions outside of Luz. Luz is Amity's everything! And Luz? Luz, while she also loves Amity and reciprocates that love, only really sees a girlfriend in her. Yeah, she loves Amity, but she also manages to have a life outside of her with her other friends.

And I've said it already in my burn-out post, but I really feel like the Hexsquad are more Luz's friends than Amity's friends. To her, they seem more like 'friends of my friend' where they are tangentially affiliated. I forget sometimes that her and Willow used to be friends! What actually ARE her thoughts and feelings on Gus? Have those two ever even spoken to each other?

-

There, I think I worded that a little better, likely by not using 'co-dependant'. But please still tell me what you think? Does Amity feel like a she's no longer her own person? Am I just speaking out of my arse?

Thoughts?

[showtoonzfan]

Honestly after really thinking about it and after someone in the comments got my attention, Luz honestly needed more development on liking Amity as well. While Amity was rushed, it at least made sense to me on why she liked Luz. Luz not only mended Amity’s relationship with Willow, but let her wake up and not be obsessed with stats, even to the point where she stood up to her own mother. But as for Luz, why exactly did she fall in love with Amity, and what did she see in her to make her fall in love? I get that Luz is nice and open as well as accepting, but I never really got the indication on why Luz liked Amity romantically like that other than “she’s so cool and amazing!”. So not only is Lumity rushed but I can’t even figure out why Luz loves Amity so much. The ship itself may be good, and don’t get me wrong, it’s nice to finally see some good LGBTQ+ rep. It’s nice to finally have a kids cartoon where two girls can be openly affectionate, call each other “girlfriends”, and kiss on screen. This is legit better than Ruby and Sapphire, and it’s nice to see these two girls struggle and learn as well when it comes to their relationship. It is good LGBTQ rep, but when you look PASS that….it’s not enough. It needed more buildup, it needed more development on both character’s parts, but I will say that I can see why people praise the ship. More shows need to have a relationship like this and it certainly is a door that will hopefully open to a future of better LGBTQ rep in kids media.

Lumity is a good ship, but I will admit it has its flaws. My biggest problem is that it didn’t really get enough buildup, particularly with Amity. She never really got a moment to realize that she was in love with Luz, or at least we as the audience never got to see it. I honestly disliked how she was blushing at the episode of “Wing it like Witches”, because by then we know she’s crushing and it was honestly just….too early to do that. Sure, we may have seen maybe 2 instances where Luz had a positive impact on Amity, but to go from that to her immediately crushing and blushing felt forced to me, in fact, I don’t think Amity herself got the proper redemption or development towards her from becoming a mean top class stern student to a softer girl. The moment she starts blushing and falls in love with Luz, that’s mainly when her character does a turnaround, and she’s 100% good. At first I praised the first few episodes of season 1 since once Amity was on good terms with Luz, she didn’t immediately turn good, she was still strict and even hung out with the other powerful witches at school, but even that didn’t really last long. The show made me feel like Amity wouldn’t have changed had she NOT fallen in love with Luz and that’s honestly a problem. While it was nice to see Amity’s insecurities and wanting to help AFTER her and Luz officially became a couple, as well as her personal stuff with her family, the buildup to her falling in love and changing felt rushed. And yes, I know the show got shortened, I’m just putting my opinion out there. Like I said, I don’t think the ship is bad, but it could have been better.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i was thinking about how ariel from the little mermaid is criticized so harshly for "giving up her voice and family for some guy" when there was definitely a lot more to it than that.

ariel had dreams outside of eric. she wanted to see the world, she wanted to get acquainted with humans and human traditions and she wasn't satisfied with her life underwater. that was the whole point of "part of your world", she barely mentions eric in it. he was just a bonus in her new life, not her entire purpose.

why am i talking about a random disney movie? it's because i was thinking of lumity, and how amity also rebelled against her family for a new life. except.. amity really only mentions luz (and "the others" because let's be real, she did not give a shit about willow and gus at that point). amity's sole reason to go against her family's values was luz.

this, if anything, could be considered "giving up everything for a love interest" but people don't see it that way because amity's parents were shitty to begin with. but if you look at the little mermaid from a different perspective, you could argue that king triton wasn't a very good parent either.

he literally throws a temper tantrum just because his teenage daughter has a crush on a guy. ariel is legit terrified in that scene, and regardless of whether triton had good intentions or not, he made his daughter feel unsafe and turn to an impulsive decision in a moment of emotional distress.

all of this to say, you could argue that ariel had no reason to stay with her family either, given that her father lacks emotional sensitivity and does not sit down and try to communicate with his child, instead of destroying her collection and scaring her away.

coming back to amity, i can understand that luz inspired her to actually do something about her abusive parents, and that's sweet. but we never get to see what else amity wanted. since they never established a friendship arc between amity and gus or willow (she apologized to willow, sure, but the rekindling of their relationship happens much later on), all we know is that amity is tired of being abused and she wants to be with luz.

from an abuse victim's perspective, amity standing up against her parents was powerful. but unlike ariel, amity doesn't seem to want anything besides luz. and she never explores what she wants to do, now that she has successfully cut herself away from her mother's influence. her whole life revolves around luz after that.

there was that abomination brawl episode but even that ended up being about luz. the brawl was just a quick montage, it only existed for the emotional drama that came later on. in fact, even when the plot was focused on amity, it was more about her relationship with her father rather than her autonomy and personal interests.

there's a reason why a lot of people liked the mean girl version of amity. she had personality, she had interests and goals, she had CHARACTER. it was all fake and a result of trauma, but it was there and it helped flesh out her character. but after she is redeemed? there's nothing left of the old amity, not even the more positive/neutral traits, and her only personality is "luz's awesome girlfriend".

amity's arc should have been about exploring what she wanted outside of her parents' wishes. abuse often turns you into a shell of a person and recovering from years of trauma isn't as simple as getting a romantic partner. it takes therapy (and that is canonically an option in the boiling isles, let me remind you), it takes self-reflection, it takes giving yourself the permission to choose your own destiny and explore yourself outside of your abusers' expectations.

and amity gets none of this. her trauma and arc was resolved too quickly, even for a show that was cut short. they just gave her a makeover, got her into a relationship with luz and called it a day. the only reason people aren't giving her the ariel treatment is (probably) because lumity is a queer ship.