polygnosticu

[polygnosticu]

something about this fandom that legit confuses me but people do know that Dana herself has said that what she says outside of the show isn't definitive canon right?

In the past Dana herself admitted that she believes in death of the author aka a creator's views and opinions on their own work outside of their work are no more important than those of the audience

so then why do people constantly use her word as a weapon to beat down others opinions prime examples being Huntlow shippers and Lilith is aroace believers a lot of people see these as canon either because of mild implication or because of no actual in show evidence and instead solely based on Dana's words outside of the show even tho she herself has said that her and the crew's HCs outside of the show are just that HCs no more or less valid than any other fans interpretation which just means that fans who go around claiming that Huntlow or Lilith being aroace or any other info that wasn't actually confirmed in the show

are definitive canon and that anyone who has opinions that differ from those are less valid for thinking so are honestly just being very unfair as you guys are basically just saying that your opinions are more valid than other people's based on nothing but your own word since you can't fall back on Dana's word given what she herself said her word is worth in regards to canon

so there is no 100 percent canon correct opinion when it comes to things like Huntlow or Lilith's sexuality or Hunter being Bi or any other info that wasn't actually confirmed in show its all up to the individual interpretation so Huntlow is no more canon than than it is not canon both interpretations are equal in this case

same with the other stuff I mentioned hell its the same with stuff like who Hunter ended up living with as you could interpret his and Darius's reunion scene

as implying that Dadrius is canon but it still isn't 100 percent canon confirmation meaning Hunter noceda or Hunter clawthorne people are equally as valid for thinking these things

yet I don't see the fandom using that one scene to beat down other people's opinions the same way Huntlow fans and Lilith is aroace fans do.

I really think this fandom has a big problem in regards to this tbh as people seem to see stuff as definitive canon simply based on popularity

and then weaponize the word "" canon "" as a way of putting down other people's opinions by making out that they are less valid than your own.

do you get what I'm saying?

[polygnosticu]

"How fandom react to criticism" wheel

[polygnosticu]

If none of the characters in the demon realm is good, is it valid for belos to do the day of unity?

No. Genocide is never justifiable. Just because these characters aren't good doesn't make them evil and worthy of death. Fans of TOH tend to idealize the characters they're fans of. Amity was scrubbed clean of a myriad of sins just to make Lumity plausible. Luz was scrubbed clean of her many sins so fans could project themselves onto her. These characters have their light and dark sides like normal people and sometimes that dark side comes out. This is part of good characterization and should be embraced in a narrative. Fans of TOH seem to have missed that lesson.

[polygnosticu]

not to mention its like everybody in toh was used as a plot device, water down or retcon growth, the adults being villainzed by fandom, and the black cultural diaspora rep was compromised, while amphibia, molly mcgee had better cultural rep, fleshing out characters with depth, then toh itself. LOVE KIFF Hansel and gretel and Primos is warming to me.

cause we have a cynical character that divides from the happy go lucky main character syndrome, that acutaslly looks at tater from primos in a layered way of growth. kinda like the characters of shameless (high reccomened BUT NOT FOR KIDS!)

thanks for answering

You're welcome.

[polygnosticu]

You've stated you think none of the demon realm characters are good people? why is that?

Because of their canon behavior.

Luz released spiders and snakes into a building full of children. She was prepared to detonate explosives in a classroom for her book report. She continued to make bad decisions that put people's lives in danger across the series. Ultimately she was prepared to let the entire Demon Realm and everyone there die (or worse) at the hands of Belos and the Collector while she returns to her old life. Only Camila's intervention saved all their lives.

Amity tortured a child for nine years before ultimately destroying her conscious mind with the full intention of leaving her a vegetable for the rest of her life. She was prepared to watch Luz be vivisected for the sake of a school badge. She never once acknowledged having done anything wrong much less apologizing and atoning for any of it. She went on to act like a friend to people she almost killed while barely acknowledging anyone's existence other than Luz.

Eda is an admitted criminal who ate a defeated enemy alive.

Willow, a victim of Amity's bullying, went on to use intimidation and physical force to compel Hunter to join her flyer derby team.

Boscha, Skara, Kat and Amelia were members of Amity's clique and helped bully Willow for nearly a decade.

The only decent person we've seen was Camila and fandom hated her for wanting to send Luz to Reality Check Camp despite Luz being in desperate need of a reality check.

Dana's original concept for the show had it set in Hell. None of the characters living in the Demon Realm were intended to be good people. Not even Luz.

[polygnosticu]

The owl House has a way of emasculating the males in the show (counting out king and hooty cause there monsters, not fitting humanoid narrative.) lets be real the way they treated gus and hunter they were chop liver compared to the impact the girls made.

Dont get me started on belos.

The emasculation of male characters is something of a trend these days as children's programming has recently been female centric going back to My Little Pony. Disney's latest offerings, Kiff, Hamster and Gretel, Primos, etc. all have female protagonists with supporting male characters who are less than stellar examples.

Gus wasn't even supposed to be in The Owl House. If you've seen the pitch bible for the show Gus wasn't in it. Tibbles was suposed to fill Gus' role. I imagine Disney insisted that an ethnic character be added to the main ensemble so Gus was created despite Dana having no use for him. Thus his use as no more than comic relief. Though they did give him a focus episode Gus was completely overshadowed by Lumity.

Hunter and Amity could have been the same character. Both were supposed to be traumatized by their parental figures but Hunter was genuinely abused while fandom merely painted Amity as an abuse victim to absolve her of her crimes so Lumity could be more palatable. Odalia was a bad parent be she never did anything in canon to her children that would qualify as abuse.

[polygnosticu]

I kind of feel like shows such as TOH have been a big contributor to the infantilization of adults. Luz doesn’t have to change and everyone who calls her out is made to be in the wrong. This series kind of enabled my worst tendencies with the “I just want to be understood” from a character who did not deserve that. Evangelion actually helped me grow out of that with its harsh but necessary lesson. What do you think?

Evangelion is a discussion I would love to have someday. That show had so many layers to it to dig into and explore. I don't think you can hold The Owl House up to it as Evangelion was a show intended for adults from the outset. Not to mention what Anno Hideaki was going through when he created it. Then that can be said about most anime even when children are the intended demographic.

The fandom of The Owl House seems to have little to no interest in the show Dana Terrace actually created. The show is dark as are the characters but that seems to have escaped the fandom when Lumity became canon and all the fandom cared about was shipping. That's why MoringMark is so popular and almost treated as canon by much of the remaining fandom. They don't want to know just how messed up these people are when you look at the things they've actually done in canon. Luz wanted to blow up a school for her book report. Amity is guilty of at least two attempted homicides. Eda ate a defeated enemy alive. The Demon Realm is well named as it is not a nice place. The show could have been fantastic if Dana had stayed with her original vision of Luz going through a coming-of-age tale in the Disney equivalent of Hell. Instead the fandom wanted Luz to find a happy place where she could be who she was without being judged no matter how inappropriate and dangerous her behavior was.

Amphibia got the concept of the isekai right. The Calamity Trio arrived in Amphibia as irresponsible children and through their journey matured into the young adults we saw at the series' end. TOH fans hated that ending because Anne, Sasha and Marcy grew up beyond their need for a fantasy world to escape into. They preferred Luz retreating to the Demon Realm where she and her friends could remain children forever. Adulthood is scary. Ask me how I know. The Calamity Trio are prepared for the adult world of getting a job, earning and saving money, paying taxes, making new friends and finding new relationships, etc. All the things that mark passage into the adult world. Luz never made that trip. Instead she got a fantasy world where she can stay the child she was in the first episode forever while trapping her friends in their childhoods as well. Amphibia will age well as a series because its creator and fans took the show seriously. The Owl House is largely being forgotten as we speak as its fans move on looking for the next big ship.

[polygnosticu]

100 likes!

[polygnosticu]

Plenty of people have drawn similarities between Dipcifica (Dipper/Pacifica) of Gravity Falls and Lumity (Luz/Amity) of The Owl House. Some even claim "dipcifica could walk so that lumity could run". Are these ships even comparable?

No, they're not. The only similarities they have are the tropes the ships are built on: Enemies to Lovers, Rich Bitch and Nice Boy/Girl, Pragmatist and Idealist, etc. Even then, only one of these ships actually deals with said tropes and it's not Lumity.

The key difference is how these characters are treated in canon; Pacifica is allowed to be an antagonist until we learn her story and watch how her perspective shifts. Her personality doesn't change, but she's less bitchy now and is willing to help the Pines twins. Amity is an antagonist for...what? one episode? before she starts pining (heh) for Luz. Amity's wealth and status also isn't a key part of her character like it is with Pacifica, it's just there. She could've been middle class and her family dynamics wouldn't change much.

Although the biggest difference though is that Lumity is a canon ship and Dipcifica is a fanon one. Dipper and Pacifica are allowed to be characters in their own right with no goal of making them a couple so the fans can be free to do what they want. Lumity is canon and regrettably, the show didn't distinguish Amity from Luz, just gave them more similarities until it seemed like Amity sacrificed her personality in order to be the Perfect Girlfriend. So fans can't actually explore character dynamics in fics or fan art, just angst or cuteness (and that apparently doesn't seem to be an issue).

[polygnosticu]

Thank you to everyone who got me to 50 likes!

sorry if this is a weird question- but are you hawas from the toh wiki? your writing seemed familiar

I didn't know I had a distinctive writing style.

[polygnosticu]

5 posts!

[polygnosticu]

sorry if this is a weird question- but are you hawas from the toh wiki? your writing seemed familiar

I didn't know I had a distinctive writing style.

[polygnosticu]

Lumity is not the ideal relationship that its stans keep pushing it as. It's not even a relationship. It's two children crushing on each other. And like all teen crushes it got real old real fast for the participants. Luz now lies to Amity habitually and has withdrawn herself emotionally from Amity. By the time we reached the end of the series Luz was prepared to walk away from the Demon Realm entirely leaving everyone there, including Amity, die or worse at the hands of Belos and the Collector.

Just for fun what would you say is your most unpopular toh opinion that a good chunk of the fandom seems to disagree with you on?

So basically an opinion that normally makes other toh fans react to you like this lol.

[polygnosticu]

50 likes!

[polygnosticu]

Hi! l saw your comments in a post you were saying something like how Luz abandoned the others. l was wondering your thoughts on this and especially about the relationship between Lumity.

My thoughts are that Luz isn't the character that her stans want her to be. She's not a good person.

In Thanks to Them Luz was shown being prepared to abandon her Hexside friends as well as the entire Demon Realm to their fates at the hands of Belos and the Collector. She had made this decision without discussing it with any of them with the intention of not telling them until the last possible second when they couldn't do anything about it. The only thing that saved everybody was Camila's intervention.

This was an unconscionable act of cruelty on Luz' part and proves a hypothesis I had about Luz from her first appearance. Luz never took the Boiling Isles and the people who live there seriously. She treated the place like her own personal fantasyland and the people who lived there as NPCs in her self insert fan fic. We can see this in how Luz based all of her decisions there in reference to Azura. Her only interest in Amity was how she served as Hecate to her Azura and wanted to befriend her on that basis rather than learn anything about her as a person.

She interfered with Willow's life and violated her boundaries trying to fit Willow into her Azura fantasy model. In both Understanding Willow and Wing it Like Witches Willow asked Luz not to interfere with her decisions on how she handled her problems. In both cases Luz ignored Willow in favor of her Azura fantasy and Willow suffered as a result. After Luz did this a second time Willow walked away from the friendship. Luz had to work her butt off to earn back Willow's trust and friendship.

Luz was fine with playing in the Boiling Isles as long as it was fun and things were going her way. When Belos and the Collector showed up and things started getting serious and people started getting hurt Luz turned her back on the place and ran. She was prepared to abandon the entire enterprise because she never saw the Boiling Isles as a real place with real people and real problems.

Lumity isn't a relationship. It's a mutual crush between two fourteen year old children. They are not in love with each other because they are both too young and too emotionally damaged to even know what that means. Prior to Lumity neither Luz nor Amity has even had a successful friendship with anyone much less a full romantic commitment yet stans want to see Lumity as this perfect relationship that will last the two of them to the grave.

Luz is crushing on Amity and does not take her seriously. Luz is fine with the fun parts of crushing on Amity but when things get serious Luz is actively cruel to Amity. Luz lies to Amity repeatedly even though Amity knows Luz is lying to her and has asked her to stop. Luz didn't stop. Luz emotionally abandons Amity and seeks comfort in Hunter in whom she confides her secrets rather than Amity. In real life this behavior would be considered emotional abuse.

Amity has become codependent on Luz. Amity has given up every other aspect of her life to become Luz' awesome girlfriend. Amity no longer even challenges Luz the way she did in Lost in Language and Adventures in the Elements. When Eda did these things to Raine, Raine walked away from the relationship. Raine loved Eda but wouldn't tolerate Eda lying to them. Willow walked away from Luz when Luz violated her boundaries. Twice. Amity doesn't walk away from Luz despite being obviously hurt by Luz' lies. She is in a complete state of codependency on Luz. We've seen that other people don't tolerate this behavior from Luz. Amity does.

So these are my thoughts. If you have any questions or thoughts of your own to contribute, by all means feel free.

[polygnosticu]

For all intents and purposes is "The Owl House" dead?