#the owl house criticism

[mdhwrites]

i wanted to ask you about some legend of Korra stuff but I know you've said your not a worldbuilding guy so here's my toh ask instead: what is the appeal of camillip (Camilla and Philip)? I'm not asking as a belos hater (I mean I do hate him but more cause I find him un-intimidating- he's not exactly competent) but it's such a crackship. I'm not against it I support most ships so long as pedophilia/incest isn't involved but it's a very odd ship. Same goes for goldric but I actually didn't see as much of that ship like other people in the fandom at the time did. So why do you think people are so drawn to this ship? I know the villain x hero, enemies to lovers dynamic is popular and how there is that corruption vs innocence and bigot in love trope but most people remove Philip's villainy/bigotry? So why do you think people are so drawn to this ship?

So first: I can criticize worldbuilding, I will criticize TOH's after all, but it's just not my strongest suit, especially when it comes to my own fiction. The bigger issue with asking me about Korra stuff is just that I've only seen the first season when it was coming out, and like two episodes of the second, and went "Well, I like the slice of life stuff, didn't like the actual plot stuff and WOW this is bad now. Peace." It's also so long ago I can't actually give any real opinions of my own for something I found mostly forgettable.

Second: I would bet Philip and Camila as a ship actually has nothing to do with Philip being a villain. So a potentially awkward take I have about Belos is that part of why he may appeal to certain parts of the fandom is that, well... He's the only dude with confidence. He's the only one who might ever put his foot down. Everyone else is either too nice or submissive to have a proper backbone and there are going to be fans who strictly don't want that out of the male characters they play with. Belos gives that to someone for TOH and Camila can play against that in many ways. Either you lean into how subservient she is to her daughter's whims and have her second to him, or you have him and her push against each other as peers or you lean into the fact that both theoretically want to temper Luz into being a better human being but have very different ways to go about it, leading to its own push and pull. There's a lot of good, dynamic stuff there just by base personalities.

You also admittedly have another side of him: The Hunter side. Hunter is your edgelord, punk kid with a tragic backstory and as someone who has spent time with Belos enjoyers, one of the REALLY compelling parts about him to them is that he is arguably wronged in many of the same ways that Hunter is. Someone who was raised a certain way and was told by his family to believe in those ideals until suddenly he was betrayed out of nowhere and found himself alone. However, unlike Hunter, the cultural brainwashing actually, you know, was cultural brainwashing and he took the words to heart and committed terrible things because of it. Things he has now doubled down on for centuries as they are all he has to cling to.

That sort of backstory is RIPE for an "I can fix him" mentality and Camila is the perfect sort of character to do that. She is kind, has the patience of a saint, a firm moral code but also a perseverance which means she won't give up. Who better then to pull out the better man in him, the leader and visionary who made the Isles into frankly a damn near utopia besides his one law, than Camila? Mix that with the history he has with Luz, or general conflicts he could have with Luz, and this adds a lot of angst and stakes to anything to do with their relationship.

Camila is also admittedly the only non-squicky option for all of this with him really. I mean... As far as women who are legal go, you either need to age up characters, all of whom should hate his guts pretty vigorously, or you have Camila, Eda, Lilith, Evalyn, Terra, Dora the Explorer or whatever her name was, and Odalia. That's a lot of names... Not a lot of characters. Half of those people are people most of the fandom overlook or just don't really have a character. Odalia loses ALL of the points I talked about here because PURE EVIL according to the fandom and then Lilith and Eda both have big reasons to despise him with every fiber of their being AND they also don't really have the right attitudes to lead to a redeemed Belos, not as a main draw. Camila is the only one with the right storm of traits to tell more sympathetic sides of Belos with.

And that's okay. There's compelling stories to be had there and that's what fanfiction is all about. It is fun to dissect what romance tropes and the like are at play in a given ship though like this, so thank you for that and see you next tale.

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Funny enough: I don't think I've personally seen almost ANYTHING of this ship so all my analysis is just off the theoreticals I can see by my knowledge and instincts. Admittedly, I don't see a lot of TOH content in general nowadays.

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[psychicbarbarianinfluencer]

Does anyone else find hunter's ending to just not be at all satisfying?

Speaking as someone who loved his character I just don't find his ending at all satisfying, now at the start of season 3 he seems to be on the right track to having meaningful development

He bonds more with his peers learns to somewhat be a normal kid and finally gets to experience actual unconditional love from people like luz hence his crying breakdown.

and having belos come back and literally try to take control of hunter again only for him to finally stand up for himself and break away from him for good on paper sounds great

only the show just used the possession angle for angst purposes instead having belos kill flapjack having hunter literally die and need to be brought back to life

and leaving him disfigured and traumatised by a whole separate event only to never really unpack it since they knew they didn't have time to.

and they never actually wrap up his arc in terms of breaking away from his abuser and forging his own identity

it really is the worst of both worlds in my opinion the ending to his arc denies us of the more Hollywood style hero actually confronts and defeats their abuser and gets to literally overcome them and live happily ever after type ending.

but it also denies us the more realistic grounded approach of showing the unpacking and handling of such a trauma and learning to move on with your life type ending.

and instead just time jumps over his development so we can see an older guy who only vaguely resembles the Hunter we got to know in the series

smiling and having a "" happy ending "" that the show itself didn't actually earn in any sense of the word.

It just kinda depresses me to be honest its like if a story tortured a character both emotionally and physically for hours on end and then in the end they just had a title card read "" 8 years later ""

and then showed that same character in a much happier place in their life while the actual story itself did nothing to actually make the happy ending earned.

Did anyone else feel this way? or maybe its just me lol I am willing to accept that but regardless the ending still left me on a kinda downer in regards to a character that I loved.

[stanlunter]

Dana Terrace on her way to steal everything she sees form other shows instead of making up at least something herself:

[mr-damian-s-power]

Is it just me or could the Blight Twins be very easily written out? They don't feel like they NEEDED to exist in the story. They just feel like the long repertoire of characters in TOH who could've been condensed or scrapped entirely.

For one, I don't think much would've been lost if Amity were an only child. I think it would make all of the expectations levied on her more realistic. Amity's story could focus on her reconnecting with Alador and mending bridges between them, maybe even finding out that Odalia grew up in a similar situation to her and cycle of abuse'd those views on Amity. This is furthered by the fact that I don't think Odalia ever actually interacts with the Twins. Do we know what she thinks of them?

Secondly, I don't think they do much plot-wise! What's the most relevant thing they do? Steal Amity's diary! That can be very easily rewritten to Boscha stealing it to gain leverage over Amity. There, I've simply taken away their most important moment.

-

Thoughts?

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[polygnosticu]

Hi! l saw your comments in a post you were saying something like how Luz abandoned the others. l was wondering your thoughts on this and especially about the relationship between Lumity.

My thoughts are that Luz isn't the character that her stans want her to be. She's not a good person.

In Thanks to Them Luz was shown being prepared to abandon her Hexside friends as well as the entire Demon Realm to their fates at the hands of Belos and the Collector. She had made this decision without discussing it with any of them with the intention of not telling them until the last possible second when they couldn't do anything about it. The only thing that saved everybody was Camila's intervention.

This was an unconscionable act of cruelty on Luz' part and proves a hypothesis I had about Luz from her first appearance. Luz never took the Boiling Isles and the people who live there seriously. She treated the place like her own personal fantasyland and the people who lived there as NPCs in her self insert fan fic. We can see this in how Luz based all of her decisions there in reference to Azura. Her only interest in Amity was how she served as Hecate to her Azura and wanted to befriend her on that basis rather than learn anything about her as a person.

She interfered with Willow's life and violated her boundaries trying to fit Willow into her Azura fantasy model. In both Understanding Willow and Wing it Like Witches Willow asked Luz not to interfere with her decisions on how she handled her problems. In both cases Luz ignored Willow in favor of her Azura fantasy and Willow suffered as a result. After Luz did this a second time Willow walked away from the friendship. Luz had to work her butt off to earn back Willow's trust and friendship.

Luz was fine with playing in the Boiling Isles as long as it was fun and things were going her way. When Belos and the Collector showed up and things started getting serious and people started getting hurt Luz turned her back on the place and ran. She was prepared to abandon the entire enterprise because she never saw the Boiling Isles as a real place with real people and real problems.

Lumity isn't a relationship. It's a mutual crush between two fourteen year old children. They are not in love with each other because they are both too young and too emotionally damaged to even know what that means. Prior to Lumity neither Luz nor Amity has even had a successful friendship with anyone much less a full romantic commitment yet stans want to see Lumity as this perfect relationship that will last the two of them to the grave.

Luz is crushing on Amity and does not take her seriously. Luz is fine with the fun parts of crushing on Amity but when things get serious Luz is actively cruel to Amity. Luz lies to Amity repeatedly even though Amity knows Luz is lying to her and has asked her to stop. Luz didn't stop. Luz emotionally abandons Amity and seeks comfort in Hunter in whom she confides her secrets rather than Amity. In real life this behavior would be considered emotional abuse.

Amity has become codependent on Luz. Amity has given up every other aspect of her life to become Luz' awesome girlfriend. Amity no longer even challenges Luz the way she did in Lost in Language and Adventures in the Elements. When Eda did these things to Raine, Raine walked away from the relationship. Raine loved Eda but wouldn't tolerate Eda lying to them. Willow walked away from Luz when Luz violated her boundaries. Twice. Amity doesn't walk away from Luz despite being obviously hurt by Luz' lies. She is in a complete state of codependency on Luz. We've seen that other people don't tolerate this behavior from Luz. Amity does.

So these are my thoughts. If you have any questions or thoughts of your own to contribute, by all means feel free.

[kiwisandpearls]

thinking about it now…I can kinda see what the toh writers might have been trying to do by having Hunter basically turn into Caleb by the end of show (he reverts to his old haircut, has a thing for wood carving which Caleb was seen doing in the portraits, has the same eye color as Caleb). I think they were trying to imply that Hunter kind of…accepted the fact that he’s a clone of Caleb. Which, if that is what they were trying to do:

that is a horrible idea considering everything else about his arc up to WAD.

Up to WAD the writers have shown how Hunter clearly did not want to be like Caleb. Heck the thing that caused Hunter to try and cut his hair was seeing a glimpse of Caleb in his reflection of the mirror in TTT. He gets his old hairstyle back when Belos possesses him. Belos made Hunter and all the other golden guards to be basically clones of Caleb and he says this himself. Everything up to WAD is basically screaming at us that Hunter being like Caleb is not something Hunter wants and is what Belos wants of him, and is not a good thing.

so for the TOH writers to then turn around and give him Caleb’s eye color, give him back his old hairstyle and technically also Caleb’s hairstyle (which I cannot reiterate enough, he tried to cut in a panic because he saw Caleb in his reflection), and give him the hobby Caleb was seen doing in the portraits (wood carving), it not only in a sense gives Belos what he wanted (to make a ‘better version of a friend’) it’s a major slap in the face for everything Hunter’s arc was clearly building up to, refusing to be a clone of Caleb and showing that he is his own person.

so, if it is true that they were trying to do a thing where Hunter accepts that he’s a clone of Caleb (which, I did not say this before but I’ll say this now, is just speculation); 1. That’s a terrible idea and goes against everything Hunter’s arc was building up to and 2. They did not do a good job of hinting or implying this, they hinted everything in the opposite direction of this, that Hunter learns he is his own person.

[hikaaa-bi]

whenever someone says they dislike huntlow, the usual comeback from toxic huntlow fans is that “you're a misogynist and you don't want to see the woman in a relationship being stronger”. so i want to address this issue today. is huntlow bad only because willow is stronger than hunter and isn't a damsel in distress?

in my opinion, absolutely not. that's not the case. i myself am a fan of subverted tropes and relationships where the woman isn't just a passive damsel with no personality. i like seeing independent women and i like seeing men being vulnerable for once.

to demonstrate my point on why huntlow doesn't pull off this trope well, let me compare it to a ship with a similar dynamic: sokka and suki from avatar the last airbender.

let's go through each of the reasons why sukka works as a ship where huntlow fails.

1. Does it make sense for the characters?

the first question here is: do the roles of the strong independent woman and weaker man suit these characters?

sokka was introduced as.. just a guy. he was a regular teenager who wasn't trained in combat. he could fight well enough if he wanted to and being the only man in a village full of mostly children and elders, he was the best warrior in his village (if we are even to believe his claims in s1, that is).

suki, on the other hand, was a trained warrior. she had spent her whole life training in combat and fighting to continue kyoshi's legacy. in her very first appearance, suki is confirmed to be a skilled warrior who is much stronger than sokka.

this setup makes perfect sense. it wouldn't come as a surprise later on that suki is stronger or a better fighter than sokka, and would have to rescue him or help him out in a moment of crisis.

now let's come to huntlow. in s2, hunter is introduced as the emperor's right-hand man who is young but powerful. while most of his intimidation factor came from his artificial staff, it was clear that he was not an amateur and had decent combat skills.

this assumption is only solidified when we see him go head to head with amity, only losing because 1. he was using a new staff 2. he was sleep deprived and 3. he was in an extremely erratic emotional state.

willow, on the other hand, was the sokka in this relationship. she was a regular teenager who grew up in a normal family and went to a regular magic high school.

she was certainly incredibly skilled in plant magic but she was not a trained child soldier like hunter. she had a lot of potential to be a good fighter but she had only recieved the education that every other student had recieved. not to mention, most of her stronger magic came from her emotional outbursts.

so.. does the whole girlboss-malewife dynamic work with huntlow? no. it really doesn't. even if willow trained and grew as a witch, there's no reason why she should be stronger and more skilled in combat than hunter, who had to pass seemingly impossible trials in order to qualify as the golden guard. especially since after the first half of s2, hunter was not only weaker than willow but just weak in general.

i get it, he doesn't have natural magic like the others. but he was still shown to be a very competent fighter. he was also shown to be cunning and strategic, being able to find a way out of any situation if he wanted to. but after joining the hexsquad, he is dumbed down to willow's shy and pathetic boyfriend, who doesn't really do much on his own.

2. are they in character when in a relationship?

when writing a relationship, this is really important. if you write a relationship where one or both characters have to act wildly out of character to make sense for the relationship to happen, those characters are not compatible. it's like when your friend acts uncomfortably different around their crush or partner.

let's start with sokka and suki.

sokka is goofy, cynical and quick-witted, with or without suki. his relationship with suki doesn't drastically change his character, but it does improve it. suki helps sokka change his misogynistic worldviews and respect women, but apart from that necessary improvement, sokka is still the same. he is not out of character when he is with suki.

as for suki herself, we don't see a lot of her away from sokka but it's still safe to assume that she is being herself around sokka. she is not forced into a new role in order to be in a relationship with sokka. the times we do see her on her own, she is pretty much the same rational, independent and nonchalant person that she is around sokka.

and yet, both of them have incredible chemistry and very clearly care for each other. it's not one-sided and it doesn't feel unnatural.

but huntlow?

hunter is introduced as a sarcastic and bratty but deeply traumatized teenager. he is quick to start a banter with whoever he is with, he tends to talk too much, and he generally has a nonchalant attitude to cover up with trauma.

but with willow? hunter is not just shy or awkward around her, he is a completely different person. i can understand that being attracted to a person can make you act strangely sometimes. but with hunter, that awkwardness never fades away. he is always blushing around her, he is often portrayed as pathetic and helpless, and constantly needing willow's support and guidance.

as for willow, she is introduced as this insecure and good-natured teenager. after her confrontation with amity, willow is pushed to the back for a while. all we know about her at that time is that she's the supportive mom friend of the group. she builds her confidence after a while but she is still shown as a kind person who doesn't use force on someone else, unless necessary.

but with hunter? willow is suddenly not just confident but also dominant and forceful. she basically snatches him from the sky and drags him to the ground, just to invite him to her flyer derby team. hunter is practically terrified at this point, but it's played off as a fun cute-meet. later, when hunter wants to leave the team for understandable reasons, instead of respecting his wishes, willow once again forces him to join her again.

i wouldn't call willow toxic or abusive, because she isn't. but i would say that she didn't respect hunter's boundaries in the slightest. she doesn't treat anyone else the way she treats hunter. she's not exactly mean to him but she also does not seem to respect him as an individual. again, she is written wildly out of character just so that she could fulfil the role of the “powerful girlboss” in the relationship. and it doesn't help that a dominant and forceful figure is the last thing hunter needs, considering how he was controlled and abused by his uncle his whole life.

3. Equality

it is my opinion that in a relationship, both individuals should play an important role. and they should balance each other out, instead of clashing with each other. it doesn't necessarily have to be an “opposites attract” situation, they just need to have qualities that brings a balance to the relationship.

in sokka's and suki's relationship, we've already established that suki is the brawn. she's the trained warrior and her agility, skill and speed are her strengths. sokka, on the other hand, is the brains. suki is still a rational and smart person but sokka is the strategist, the “idea guy”.

here, there's a balance. neither sokka nor suki are weak or incompetent, they're just skilled in different areas.

but when it comes to huntlow, willow is the brawn while hunter.. does close to nothing. after meeting willow, he's basically useless. the most impactful thing he does is stand up against belos in “Thanks to Them” and rescue willow from a short fall in the next episode. otherwise, he is mostly pushed to the back despite, again, having a personality and his own strengths prior to meeting willow. the problem here isn't that hunter shouldn't be weak or vulnerable, but rather that he is forced into the damsel role when it goes against his original character.

4. Screentime, interaction and development

one thing that huntlow and sukka had in common is neither ship had too much screentime together. suki wasn't officially part of the gaang until s3 and before that, she just gets two interactions with sokka. but these interactions were used to their fullest potential.

when they first meet each other, sokka and suki do not get along well. sokka was convinced that women aren't good warriors and his pride is hurt by the fact that suki is stronger than him, while suki is understandably put off by sokka's misogynistic and condescending attitude. after he tries to teach her how to fight and is consequently defeated by her, sokka rethinks his worldview. he goes back to suki and asks her to teach him how to fight, apologizing and admitting his mistake. suki agrees to teach him and through this, they bond. it is revealed at the end of the episode that both sokka and suki may or may not have a thing for each other. afterwards, sokka has to leave and suki has to stay behind.

their next meeting is a lot more brief but even here, we see a clear demonstration of their dynamic. sokka is overjoyed to see suki but he still hasn't moved on from yue, so when suki confesses to him and tries to initiate a kiss, sokka rejects her. suki apologizes to him later for what happened, and sokka kisses her as a confirmation that he has now moved on and likes her back. we see a clear respect of boundaries and personal choices from both sides.

finally, after suki is captured by azula, sokka frees her and they are reunited again until the end. at this point, they're basically a couple. there's no more awkward blushing or stuttering; they're just a pair of teenagers who are in love with each other. they have a bit of playful banter and they're very casual and comfortable around each other.

suki was originally supposed to be a one-time character so it's incredible that they pulled off on the best ships in atla with her and sokka. their chemistry was undeniable from the beginning, and the writers knew how to expand on it.

now let's come to huntlow. hunter and willow meet each other for the first time in the s2b episode ‘Any Sport in a Storm’. willow is looking for candidates to join her flyer derby team and she sees hunter flying on his palisman. completely unprovoked, the willow who normally never attacked or forced something on people for no reason, decides that the best way to scout this random guy she doesn't know is by encasing him in vines and dragging him to the ground, destroying the concrete in the process. this may have been portrayed as something of a slapstick comedy, but that kind of humor never stuck with me.

after willow explains herself to hunter, he agrees to join her team, thinking it would be an easy way to recruit students into the emperor's coven. fast forward, they get a few members to their group.

hunter notices that all of these members are visibly slacking off and gets discouraged. he turns to leave and willow stops him in his tracks. when she tells him to give them a chance, hunter ‘opens up’ to her a little, by telling her that he had to earn chances, especially as a “half a witch”. this comes out of nowhere because we never see hunter being referred to as half a witch by anyone prior to this. there were certainly characters who disliked him, like lilith and kikimora, but they called him names like “golden brat”. in fact, it's not even clear if anyone other than hunter and belos knows that he has no magic. the whole half a witch line was added so that hunter and willow would have something in common.

willow, instead of reasoning with hunter or respecting his choice to leave, drags him to the ground once again and seemingly teleports him back to the flyer derby team. while this may not have been done with malicious intent, it was still another instance of willow invading hunter's boundaries and forcing him to do something.

hunter is convinced that the team is, in fact, competent. he plays the game with them and has fun doing it. after getting the team captured to join the emperor's coven and saving them from darius, the episode ends with darius turning out to be the good guy and hunter getting a penstagram (or whatever they call it, i forgot).

after this, the huntlow scenes are very scarce. we barely see them interact, especially not alone with each other. in the next episode, we see willow standing up for hunter and hunter blushing and recognizing that the fake willow isn't willow. while this would be sweet for an already established couple, since hunter and willow barely had a bond at this point, it just comes off as hunter being observant. which is somewhat in character for him.

afterwards, there's just a sprinkle of this ship, most of it consisting of hunter being shy and nervous around willow. and willow treating him like she treats everyone else. there's no sign of willow liking hunter back until literally the episode before the finale. where, instead of focusing on hunter's recent trauma with being possessed by his abusive parent and losing his best friend, the show decides to focus on willow's issues instead. of course willow deserves her own arc, but she already got it back in s1. there was no reason to give her ANOTHER issue to work on, just so that hunter can comfort her and give her a reason to like him back.

overall, it was really forced and these two characters never had the kind of natural chemistry that sokka and suki did. their interactions were either awkward or surface-level wholesome. we get exactly two (2) episodes where they interact properly and even that isn't done well. it just feels like these characters were pushed into a ship dynamic that they didn't naturally fit into.

[daystarvoyage]

You know what I call amity nowadays ever since her name trends through social media.

Lil miss self insert

MORE ON MY AMITY POST SOON, I’m just speaking facts and proof.

[mdhwrites]

TOH Fans Don't Know What Redemption Is

TL:DR: TOH as a show uses the tropes and veneer of redemption a lot but fails to actually engage with the fact that redemption is not about no longer being a dick. Your kind of a dick friend does not need to be redeemed for calling you names, they just need to stop calling you names. No, redemption is about making up for past sins... Which TOH never does.

You do not go to confessional to tell someone you did something bad and then ask them to forget about it. You go there to be told what you must do to be redeemed in the eyes of the Lord or to be assured that there was no sin in the first place. If there was, you are asked to perform a service, even if just a set of prayers, to make up for your slip in faith and show your devotion to the path of good. You sacrifice your time and seek to do better. That is inherently a part of redemption. I frame this religiously but hey, if you get rowdy in your buddy's house when they asked you not to and you break something of theirs, you don't just apologize. You usually actually try to make it up to them if you can because otherwise all you've done is give them words when it's actions that spoke for your disregard to them. You might even ask what you can do to make it up to them.

For an absolutely classic and genuinely amazing example of this: Megamind. In the middle of his arc, Roxanne makes it clear that what Megamind has done has hurt her. Hurt what she cares about. That it has made her world worse. What does Megamind do? He returns the art, he cleans up the city... In his own way and in general UNDOES HIS CRIMES. In that one moment, he stops being selfish and actively attempts to make up for it for someone else by righting his wrongs. The worst you can say is that he's doing it because he likes someone and wants their affection but like... Yeah, that's the motivation to change and Megamind even admits himself that he's finding doing good to be enjoyable now. It's a powerful moment because it so clearly contrasts who he was in a way that would be impossible if he were not seeking redemption and being redeemed.

The ONE TIME TOH actually manages this is Lilith. She recognizes that cursing her sister was wrong. She recognizes that her attempts to be the most powerful person on the Isles was wrong. As such, her betrayal of Belos is NOT her redemption. If she chose to betray Belos because she personal gain in it or saw that it was a dead end in life, it would not be redeeming (this will come up later). Instead, she is truly redeemed because she gives up potentially everything but especially her ability to be above others and her sister by taking the curse unto herself. By sharing that burden she was responsible for first and acknowledging that what she did, specifically, was wrong.

People don't champion Lilith though as some great redemption, do they? Not when it comes to TOH. She's overshadowed by the ones given more of a to do like Hunter, Amity and The Collector. Especially those first two though. So, how do they manage?

Amity has crimes. She bullied Willow when she did not have to as Odalia's demand was ONLY to stop being friends with her. She bullied Willow regardless. She attempted to murder Luz. She tried to remove Luz's ability to use magic and was overall just a general bitch who was more than happy to keep taunting Luz for entertainment. She is genuinely a fucking AWFUL human being at the beginning of the series. Does she even bother recognizing this?

No. Not with more than words. That's all Willow gets. In fact, Amity is so disinterested in making up for being a bitch to Willow that she ignores EVERYTHING about her for almost an entire season after they 'make up' which they only make up with words. Amity just says the right thing and seems to think that's all it takes. She still uses Willow for her own selfish needs in Falls and Follies and she doesn't respect Willow during Labyrinth Runners. She does literally nothing to actually redeem herself for this.

How about refuting Boscha or her mom? Those are pretty big deals and against her old self, right? Well, yes and no but we need to interrogate the why for that. To the audience, it is meant to signify Amity giving up her past influences to be a better person. As I stated at the top, it is a common trope in redemption arcs which TOH does engage with. However... She's doing them for Luz and not because of the past. She tells Boscha to go fuck herself not because Amity was a grade A bitch with Boscha but because Boscha is now bullying someone she cares about so she can dropped just as fast and brutally as she did Willow in the past for the sake of pleasing someone else. NOTHING about her behavior is different except now she's doing it for someone as good. That's not redemption. We don't praise the Punisher here just because he murders bad men. Odalia is similar. It's not to make up for Odalia's influence or the things she did because of Odalia, it is to selfishly proclaim her own personhood... And more importantly, save her girlfriend. It's not even to make up for the expulsion, it's JUST to keep Luz alive. Yes, she gets them unexpelled but only once she first acts for the sake of Luz not dying. She has NO INTEREST in getting involved until then and at that point, it's not her crime, it's Odalia's. That's what makes her motivation being Luz not work because the motivation might be Luz, but the result isn't her facing her past, it's just facing a cartoonish villain.

And if your argument is "Well, all she did was because of Odalia," I would respond with, "Okay, that not a redemption then, that's just a regular character arc." If your character does not actually try to IN UNIVERSE redeem themselves, how can you call it a redemption arc? Sasha is ready to DIE for all of Wartwood to make up for the fact that they're gonna get wiped off the face of the map because of her. She acknowledges that she was wrong and always wrong and goes out to do something about that. She gives up command to Anne in order to try avoid her old mistakes because she is so actively trying to do better than she used to. Redemption is never easy and requires shit like this. The best way to do it fast is, well... Death.

This is why the heroic sacrifice trope is so beloved for redeemed villains. They go from spending an entire life causing misery and being selfish to making the ultimate sacrifice against that which they stood for. In one moment, they seek that redemption... But expect no reward which only further bolsters how this is redemption. Redemption is selfless. You never HAVE to redeem yourself. You never expect a prize or even a better life from redeeming yourself besides being able to sleep better at night. It's a powerful trope...

And Hunter's version of it is literally the worst example I can think of for the trope. Yes, we technically get him rescuing the Emerald Entrails before this as a moment of redemption but what about just redeeming his time under Belos and as the Golden Guard? Well... Essentially no one even gets more than a token apology for that. He just sob stories his way into people's hearts instead of actually do anything to earn their affection outside of Willow KIND OF. But hey, that should be fine since he does sacrifice his own life, right?

Well, again, context. What does he sacrifice for? Because it's not anyone other than him. Just listen to literally the words he's saying. He talks about how much better his life is now. How much he likes the perks of being a good guy like friends. He barely remembers to include that stopping Belos needs to be a part of this without him just looking like a mooch of a friend because he never mentions how it feels good to help people, how he hates what he did with the Emperor or even that he believes more in self expression now. It's ENTIRELY selfish. He doesn't even expect to die, he's just telling Belos to go fuck himself and ends up dying in the process, which is actually pretty normal for a selfish henchman betrayal it's just that the show doesn't realize that's what he's doing.

This is indicative of the show's approach to redemption as a whole and we even get a thesis statement on that. The Collector. If you just say you're sorry and are on the correct side, you're redeemed! Making up for all the damage you did when you absolutely can fix it in like a week? Actually putting yourself up for punishment by those who's autonomy you took away and then tortured? Fucking ANYTHING besides unpuppeting people that he did for months to terrorize the entire Isles? No. He said he's sorry and he's just a goofy little guy so he's redeemed! Right?... Right?

And then the Collector takes this very basic idea of redemption, of just needing to show a bit of kindness and people will magically change, and applies it to Belos. For only the second time, in the whole series, does it not work. The problem with saying that means the show understands this topic and has nuance is... The other example is Kikimora. Neither of these characters are people. They caricatures of villains. They're so pure evil that the idea of redeeming them is, well... A joke. Literally, in the show, the attempt to redeem Belos is a joke. Why would you think the baby eating psycopath was just going to need a hug? That is the level of cartoon villain we are dealing. That's not nuance, it's bullshit, which is why it has never functioned as a critique of SU like it clearly is, especially not when the person who does it JUST NEEDED A FEW KIND WORDS. Like the Collector literally IS just the arc they describe and then try to mock and never even blinks at this fact.

But we call these redemption arcs because they were tokenly villains before hand. I would at this point argue that we need to stop doing that. If we think TOH even purports the concept of redemption, that implies you can learn how to write redemption through TOH. You can't. Bluntly, you cannot because it barely ever tries and when it fails, it fails miserably.

The Diamonds at least promised, and kept their word, to undo their damages. I don't think you get to mock that with your redemptions when you can't even manage that much 75% of the time. See you next tale.

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I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

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[psychicbarbarianinfluencer]

Just for fun what would you say is your most unpopular toh opinion that a good chunk of the fandom seems to disagree with you on?

So basically an opinion that normally makes other toh fans react to you like this lol.

[astramyr]

i've seen a few other people bring up good points on here so im gonna add in my thoughts about why i don't like huntlow

to me it felt like hunter was clinging to the first person his age who saw him as like, a regular teenager. sure, amity and luz have their moments of "the golden guard looks my age wtf" but in both cases, they saw him as the golden guard before anything else. willow was the first person who saw him as an equal, who saw him as "hunter" before "belos' right hand man". willow was nice to him because she's a generally kind person, not because she had to or because she pitied him.

and i feel like that kind of relationship is fine when the character receiving unconditional kindness has time to heal from their trauma! time that this show just didn't have!! and if you know you don't have time to fully develop a relationship in a healthy way, why try to develop it at all?

[mr-damian-s-power]

owl house in the second episode: the "chosen one" doesn't exist because nobody is the main character and you are not special

owl house in the final episode: luz gets chosen by GOD to wield his powers and get a cool badass form to defeat the bad guy because she's special and the main character

somethings not really adding up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yyyyyyep! It's kinda funny looking back and how the show tried to pull a 'this isn't just a fantasy world like in your stories, Luz'. I would've liked if she had all of her preconceived notions challenged and had to come to terms with the fact that she's not the main character in a story.

However, the show gave up on that to instead become a power fantasy for special girl Luz. She gets to go to a magic school and learn all of the magic in a special secret class, she learns an OP form of magic that nobody else knows about, she gets a girlfriend who devotes her entire existence to her, then she gets a power-up from God to defeat the evil tyrant and become the saviour of the world.

Yeah, it got a bit out of hand! 😐

-

Thoughts?

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

I have a lot of things to say about this character. I used to identify with her a bit but I no longer do and a lot of the writing in her “arc” has aged poorly. The narrative wants to portray her as just someone who longs to be understood. What we got though is a character who never grows and remains selfish and inconsiderate. I respect and understand that she’s important to a lot of people who are queer and neurodivergent as I am too but I don’t think she’s as good as her stans say.

I’m going to contrast her with two protagonists I am fond of. The character I named my blog after, Ben Tennyson, and Akko from Little Witch Academia which I just finished watching. I actually compared the former to Luz in a more positive post back when I liked her but I think a more critical comparison is needed now. Some have said it but TOH is just an isekai anime for queer people. Any development Luz may have had regarding being less impulsive and selfish got dropped in favor of her just wanting to be understood. She gets everything she wants, to be the hero, to date the rich popular girl, and never be criticized or challenged by anyone.

If Lumity was a cishet ship, it would get a lot more flack from people. Amity herself is woobified by her fans when she was often nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason and didn’t do much to redeem herself for the latter. Luz chose to keep lying to Amity and kept secrets even after she promised to do better. Despite suffering from bad writing in UA, Ben/Julie was still better than this. Julie actually held Ben accountable when he lied or screwed up and she never bullied him, Gwen or Kevin. Ben does try, even if he’s not very good at it to be a better boyfriend and spend more time with Julie as seen in “Revenge of The Swarm” after promising he’d do better.

Some other things that make Ben better than Luz is that his hero fantasy is actually deconstructed. He learns he can’t mess around and do what ever he wants. While he jokes around and acts like a brat, he admits it’s because he’s scared because of the stakes that come if he fails in the episode “The Forge of Creation”. This is not to say Ben 10 is great as it does slip into isekai territory as well with that disgusting harem episode in OV, but it does a little better. He’s also actually bullied as shown in the OS and AF which makes him a bit more sympathetic whereas fanon is used to make Luz more likable than what just the show itself tells.

Regarding Akko, she’s similar to Luz in that she’s impulsive, selfish, rude and wants to be a witch to live out some fantasy. The difference is that Akko learns to be more responsible, that not everything is about her and that she can’t just get whatever she wants. While patience is still something she struggles with by the end of the series, she still grows and becomes a better person. Whereas Luz was willing to abandon everyone while wallowing in self pity, Akko ran away for a few hours after learning that Chariot, her mentor, idol and friend was the reason she was struggling but a quick talk with Diana brought her back. The thing is that a character who’s not a noble saint but still very sympathetic can work such as Shinji Ikari but not if they’re framed as heroic like Luz. That’s why a lot of the show’s writing has not aged well.

To recap, this isn’t to bash people who do identify with Luz and like her. I used to as well, but she’s got some flaws that are often brushed away and the narrative seemed like it wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Wanted to challenge traditional fantasy tropes while ultimately turning into a chosen one wish fulfillment for Luz. TOH was praised for its representation as well as by people who view it as the anti SU but its not the greatest show ever and there are some troubling implications.

[stanlunter]

I personally don't like Lumity for a few reasons... 1. It kinda makes Luz a terrible friend to Willow, since Luz is befriending Willow's bully (and former friend) behind her back...

2. Luz loses her backbone almost whenever Amity is angry at her, while Luz's rivalry with Hunter felt more equal cause they get angry at each other and Luz isn't afraid to call out Hunter on his crap (unlike with Amity, where Luz doesn't even get angry at her that much for burning Willow's picture memories). Considering how much of a jerk Amity was to Luz before she dyed her hair purple, it's no wonder Luz kept secrets from her and told Hunter instead...

3. Amity's romantic feelings for Luz make no sense. At first, she hated Luz for getting her in trouble in school and for being a human that lacks magical powers. But then Luz gains Amity's respect, when Luz reveals that she can do magic spells in a different way... So yeah, it would make sense for Luz to gain Amity's respect and later maybe friendship. But Amity gaining a crush and slowly becoming obsessed with the human (who's species that she hated) that keeps getting her in trouble is pretty unrealistic. They also had to almost completely change Amity's personality after she made her hair purple, so that Amity can act like 'Luz's 1# Fangirl' while they're dating... They could've at least given Amity a new dream, since she's an ambitious girl and she can't be in the Emperor's Coven anymore! ಠ_ಠ

Sorry for the long answer

But I absolutely agree!

I swear, I LOVE the potential Lumity had, but its realization really makes me cry. Especially since there are not so many well-written AND interesting supphic couples in media and the way they absolutely ruined even this one (which really could be handled so easily) is really sad. If I had to rewrite toh, Lumity would have been changed the most

[derseprinceoftbd]

Hot take: the persistent betrayal of the Grimwalkers culminating in Hunter was a bad idea from a writing perspective given everything else. Like... it's just biological determinism. Saying they all followed the Good Path of their Good Main Ingredient. I think like, maybe they should have been *Belos* Clones meant to emulate Caleb, because then it would be Belos driving everyone near him away with his evil? Or maybe that that wouldn't solve the issue... I don't know.