#the owl house criticism

[stanlunter]

Dana Terrace on her way to steal everything she sees form other shows instead of making up at least something herself:

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[sidecharactersdomatter]

Does anyone else think that The Owl House failed its male characters? This question is purely rhetorical not controversial.

[psychicbarbarianinfluencer]

Just for fun what would you say is your most unpopular toh opinion that a good chunk of the fandom seems to disagree with you on?

So basically an opinion that normally makes other toh fans react to you like this lol.

[mr-damian-s-power]

Amity doesn't feel like her own person anymore

I feel that the post I made about Amity yesterday that I deleted could have been worded differently. That was the issue with it, I think! People saw the word 'co-dependant' and assumed the worst of me, despite me clarifying that I wasn't stating it as fact. I was even debating telling my true feelings on Amity because I know how people are with their favourite characters. How about I put it more like the title?

What was Amity's character post-S1? She....loves Luz, she wants to spend all of her time with Luz, aaaaaaand.....she's got daddy issues! Hey look, something not related to Luz! But do you see my issue? She doesn't seem to have much to do aside from love Luz and occasionally deal with her crap homelife. I used to think people were exaggerating when they said that Amity is just 'Luz's girlfriend', but I really do think she devolved into just that.

Also, what do the loving pair actually have in common? They...both like Azura! That's it as far as I can tell. But even then, Luz is clearly more into it, while Amity may just have a fleeting interest.

The main issue I see with Amity is that I can't really imagine her on her own. I can't picture her without Luz right there. She's so intertwined with Luz, she's practically been absorbed into her and hangs off like a giant tumour.

Here's my sad point that I thought only I held, until I saw someone else say almost verbatim what I thought. Amity loves Luz more than anything. She gave up everything to be with Luz. She has no goals or ambitions outside of Luz. Luz is Amity's everything! And Luz? Luz, while she also loves Amity and reciprocates that love, only really sees a girlfriend in her. Yeah, she loves Amity, but she also manages to have a life outside of her with her other friends.

And I've said it already in my burn-out post, but I really feel like the Hexsquad are more Luz's friends than Amity's friends. To her, they seem more like 'friends of my friend' where they are tangentially affiliated. I forget sometimes that her and Willow used to be friends! What actually ARE her thoughts and feelings on Gus? Have those two ever even spoken to each other?

-

There, I think I worded that a little better, likely by not using 'co-dependant'. But please still tell me what you think? Does Amity feel like a she's no longer her own person? Am I just speaking out of my arse?

Thoughts?

[polygnosticu]

Hi! l saw your comments in a post you were saying something like how Luz abandoned the others. l was wondering your thoughts on this and especially about the relationship between Lumity.

My thoughts are that Luz isn't the character that her stans want her to be. She's not a good person.

In Thanks to Them Luz was shown being prepared to abandon her Hexside friends as well as the entire Demon Realm to their fates at the hands of Belos and the Collector. She had made this decision without discussing it with any of them with the intention of not telling them until the last possible second when they couldn't do anything about it. The only thing that saved everybody was Camila's intervention.

This was an unconscionable act of cruelty on Luz' part and proves a hypothesis I had about Luz from her first appearance. Luz never took the Boiling Isles and the people who live there seriously. She treated the place like her own personal fantasyland and the people who lived there as NPCs in her self insert fan fic. We can see this in how Luz based all of her decisions there in reference to Azura. Her only interest in Amity was how she served as Hecate to her Azura and wanted to befriend her on that basis rather than learn anything about her as a person.

She interfered with Willow's life and violated her boundaries trying to fit Willow into her Azura fantasy model. In both Understanding Willow and Wing it Like Witches Willow asked Luz not to interfere with her decisions on how she handled her problems. In both cases Luz ignored Willow in favor of her Azura fantasy and Willow suffered as a result. After Luz did this a second time Willow walked away from the friendship. Luz had to work her butt off to earn back Willow's trust and friendship.

Luz was fine with playing in the Boiling Isles as long as it was fun and things were going her way. When Belos and the Collector showed up and things started getting serious and people started getting hurt Luz turned her back on the place and ran. She was prepared to abandon the entire enterprise because she never saw the Boiling Isles as a real place with real people and real problems.

Lumity isn't a relationship. It's a mutual crush between two fourteen year old children. They are not in love with each other because they are both too young and too emotionally damaged to even know what that means. Prior to Lumity neither Luz nor Amity has even had a successful friendship with anyone much less a full romantic commitment yet stans want to see Lumity as this perfect relationship that will last the two of them to the grave.

Luz is crushing on Amity and does not take her seriously. Luz is fine with the fun parts of crushing on Amity but when things get serious Luz is actively cruel to Amity. Luz lies to Amity repeatedly even though Amity knows Luz is lying to her and has asked her to stop. Luz didn't stop. Luz emotionally abandons Amity and seeks comfort in Hunter in whom she confides her secrets rather than Amity. In real life this behavior would be considered emotional abuse.

Amity has become codependent on Luz. Amity has given up every other aspect of her life to become Luz' awesome girlfriend. Amity no longer even challenges Luz the way she did in Lost in Language and Adventures in the Elements. When Eda did these things to Raine, Raine walked away from the relationship. Raine loved Eda but wouldn't tolerate Eda lying to them. Willow walked away from Luz when Luz violated her boundaries. Twice. Amity doesn't walk away from Luz despite being obviously hurt by Luz' lies. She is in a complete state of codependency on Luz. We've seen that other people don't tolerate this behavior from Luz. Amity does.

So these are my thoughts. If you have any questions or thoughts of your own to contribute, by all means feel free.

[mdhwrites]

TOH Fans Don't Know What Redemption Is

TL:DR: TOH as a show uses the tropes and veneer of redemption a lot but fails to actually engage with the fact that redemption is not about no longer being a dick. Your kind of a dick friend does not need to be redeemed for calling you names, they just need to stop calling you names. No, redemption is about making up for past sins... Which TOH never does.

You do not go to confessional to tell someone you did something bad and then ask them to forget about it. You go there to be told what you must do to be redeemed in the eyes of the Lord or to be assured that there was no sin in the first place. If there was, you are asked to perform a service, even if just a set of prayers, to make up for your slip in faith and show your devotion to the path of good. You sacrifice your time and seek to do better. That is inherently a part of redemption. I frame this religiously but hey, if you get rowdy in your buddy's house when they asked you not to and you break something of theirs, you don't just apologize. You usually actually try to make it up to them if you can because otherwise all you've done is give them words when it's actions that spoke for your disregard to them. You might even ask what you can do to make it up to them.

For an absolutely classic and genuinely amazing example of this: Megamind. In the middle of his arc, Roxanne makes it clear that what Megamind has done has hurt her. Hurt what she cares about. That it has made her world worse. What does Megamind do? He returns the art, he cleans up the city... In his own way and in general UNDOES HIS CRIMES. In that one moment, he stops being selfish and actively attempts to make up for it for someone else by righting his wrongs. The worst you can say is that he's doing it because he likes someone and wants their affection but like... Yeah, that's the motivation to change and Megamind even admits himself that he's finding doing good to be enjoyable now. It's a powerful moment because it so clearly contrasts who he was in a way that would be impossible if he were not seeking redemption and being redeemed.

The ONE TIME TOH actually manages this is Lilith. She recognizes that cursing her sister was wrong. She recognizes that her attempts to be the most powerful person on the Isles was wrong. As such, her betrayal of Belos is NOT her redemption. If she chose to betray Belos because she personal gain in it or saw that it was a dead end in life, it would not be redeeming (this will come up later). Instead, she is truly redeemed because she gives up potentially everything but especially her ability to be above others and her sister by taking the curse unto herself. By sharing that burden she was responsible for first and acknowledging that what she did, specifically, was wrong.

People don't champion Lilith though as some great redemption, do they? Not when it comes to TOH. She's overshadowed by the ones given more of a to do like Hunter, Amity and The Collector. Especially those first two though. So, how do they manage?

Amity has crimes. She bullied Willow when she did not have to as Odalia's demand was ONLY to stop being friends with her. She bullied Willow regardless. She attempted to murder Luz. She tried to remove Luz's ability to use magic and was overall just a general bitch who was more than happy to keep taunting Luz for entertainment. She is genuinely a fucking AWFUL human being at the beginning of the series. Does she even bother recognizing this?

No. Not with more than words. That's all Willow gets. In fact, Amity is so disinterested in making up for being a bitch to Willow that she ignores EVERYTHING about her for almost an entire season after they 'make up' which they only make up with words. Amity just says the right thing and seems to think that's all it takes. She still uses Willow for her own selfish needs in Falls and Follies and she doesn't respect Willow during Labyrinth Runners. She does literally nothing to actually redeem herself for this.

How about refuting Boscha or her mom? Those are pretty big deals and against her old self, right? Well, yes and no but we need to interrogate the why for that. To the audience, it is meant to signify Amity giving up her past influences to be a better person. As I stated at the top, it is a common trope in redemption arcs which TOH does engage with. However... She's doing them for Luz and not because of the past. She tells Boscha to go fuck herself not because Amity was a grade A bitch with Boscha but because Boscha is now bullying someone she cares about so she can dropped just as fast and brutally as she did Willow in the past for the sake of pleasing someone else. NOTHING about her behavior is different except now she's doing it for someone as good. That's not redemption. We don't praise the Punisher here just because he murders bad men. Odalia is similar. It's not to make up for Odalia's influence or the things she did because of Odalia, it is to selfishly proclaim her own personhood... And more importantly, save her girlfriend. It's not even to make up for the expulsion, it's JUST to keep Luz alive. Yes, she gets them unexpelled but only once she first acts for the sake of Luz not dying. She has NO INTEREST in getting involved until then and at that point, it's not her crime, it's Odalia's. That's what makes her motivation being Luz not work because the motivation might be Luz, but the result isn't her facing her past, it's just facing a cartoonish villain.

And if your argument is "Well, all she did was because of Odalia," I would respond with, "Okay, that not a redemption then, that's just a regular character arc." If your character does not actually try to IN UNIVERSE redeem themselves, how can you call it a redemption arc? Sasha is ready to DIE for all of Wartwood to make up for the fact that they're gonna get wiped off the face of the map because of her. She acknowledges that she was wrong and always wrong and goes out to do something about that. She gives up command to Anne in order to try avoid her old mistakes because she is so actively trying to do better than she used to. Redemption is never easy and requires shit like this. The best way to do it fast is, well... Death.

This is why the heroic sacrifice trope is so beloved for redeemed villains. They go from spending an entire life causing misery and being selfish to making the ultimate sacrifice against that which they stood for. In one moment, they seek that redemption... But expect no reward which only further bolsters how this is redemption. Redemption is selfless. You never HAVE to redeem yourself. You never expect a prize or even a better life from redeeming yourself besides being able to sleep better at night. It's a powerful trope...

And Hunter's version of it is literally the worst example I can think of for the trope. Yes, we technically get him rescuing the Emerald Entrails before this as a moment of redemption but what about just redeeming his time under Belos and as the Golden Guard? Well... Essentially no one even gets more than a token apology for that. He just sob stories his way into people's hearts instead of actually do anything to earn their affection outside of Willow KIND OF. But hey, that should be fine since he does sacrifice his own life, right?

Well, again, context. What does he sacrifice for? Because it's not anyone other than him. Just listen to literally the words he's saying. He talks about how much better his life is now. How much he likes the perks of being a good guy like friends. He barely remembers to include that stopping Belos needs to be a part of this without him just looking like a mooch of a friend because he never mentions how it feels good to help people, how he hates what he did with the Emperor or even that he believes more in self expression now. It's ENTIRELY selfish. He doesn't even expect to die, he's just telling Belos to go fuck himself and ends up dying in the process, which is actually pretty normal for a selfish henchman betrayal it's just that the show doesn't realize that's what he's doing.

This is indicative of the show's approach to redemption as a whole and we even get a thesis statement on that. The Collector. If you just say you're sorry and are on the correct side, you're redeemed! Making up for all the damage you did when you absolutely can fix it in like a week? Actually putting yourself up for punishment by those who's autonomy you took away and then tortured? Fucking ANYTHING besides unpuppeting people that he did for months to terrorize the entire Isles? No. He said he's sorry and he's just a goofy little guy so he's redeemed! Right?... Right?

And then the Collector takes this very basic idea of redemption, of just needing to show a bit of kindness and people will magically change, and applies it to Belos. For only the second time, in the whole series, does it not work. The problem with saying that means the show understands this topic and has nuance is... The other example is Kikimora. Neither of these characters are people. They caricatures of villains. They're so pure evil that the idea of redeeming them is, well... A joke. Literally, in the show, the attempt to redeem Belos is a joke. Why would you think the baby eating psycopath was just going to need a hug? That is the level of cartoon villain we are dealing. That's not nuance, it's bullshit, which is why it has never functioned as a critique of SU like it clearly is, especially not when the person who does it JUST NEEDED A FEW KIND WORDS. Like the Collector literally IS just the arc they describe and then try to mock and never even blinks at this fact.

But we call these redemption arcs because they were tokenly villains before hand. I would at this point argue that we need to stop doing that. If we think TOH even purports the concept of redemption, that implies you can learn how to write redemption through TOH. You can't. Bluntly, you cannot because it barely ever tries and when it fails, it fails miserably.

The Diamonds at least promised, and kept their word, to undo their damages. I don't think you get to mock that with your redemptions when you can't even manage that much 75% of the time. See you next tale.

======+++++======

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[erollhitchens]

While I do love this show I think its kinda disappointing how the writers would just give major injuries to people and not actually explore it at all.

( I just wanna be clear right off the bat I am a fan of this show this isn't a hate post or anything but these certain writing choices did kinda leave a bad taste in my mouth hence why I made this post )

I'm mainly talking about Eda Hunter and Raine

Eda loses an arm and it isn't really explored at all and Hunter and Raine end up with severe scarring over the faces and bodies yet this is only used for cheap in the moment types of storytelling rather than anything that actually gets explored

maybe to help dive into how the characters feel over these traumatic events but no they are basically just used for different character designs and that's it, which is disappointing tbh and feels pretty shallow of the writers.

also there's Luz's tiny eyebrow scar which kinda baffles me tbh as its there its a design change the animators had to remember

but its so tiny and meaningless it may as well not be there and again it doesn't serve a purpose

I could understand if Luz had a more noticeable scar that maybe served to remind her of helping Belos and tied into her depression at the start of season 3 but eventually she learned to not see it as a shameful reminder of her guilt over belos.

or something like that but that isn't really what happened so well its pretty pointless as well.

like I said it just feels a little cheap giving your characters major injuries that could effect you for life realistically both physically and psychologically only to not actually have them mean anything

Not using them to explore your characters feelings more in depth or something like that, like Hunter's scars could have been used to represent some sorta ptsd over flapjacks death in the episodes afterwards or something

maybe if he kept getting reminded of belos and his control over him or that dreadful night due to the scars triggering flashbacks and it could have tied in to him learning to move past it

and Eda was literally given a life changing disability they could have explored this even a tiny bit in season 3

maybe had her have some sorta arc around wondering if she'd still be able to be the same carefree living life on the edge type of person who she was before and eventually realising it doesn't really matter to who she is or how she sees herself overall

but not doing anything with these things and just having them for cheap shock value and character design changes just rubs me the wrong way tbh

and it kinda bugs me how this fandom lets the writers off the hook for these writing choices so easily.

as these things are kinda the definition of badly done angst in my opinion since they exist solely to get a sad or shocked reaction out of the viewers in the moment

but they don't actually serve a purpose in exploring the characters more and helping their overall arcs like I said I love this show but this aspect I find very disappointing tbh.

[bobbydagen24]

tbh I really don't think Raine should have been present for Belos's death.

This is something I've been thinking about more recently but why have Raine there? like writing wise

a lot of people try to claim that the reason for other characters not being present for Belos's death or at least not getting a final scene with him beforehand ( cough Hunter cough )

is that the scene was meant to be about our main three and keeping the focus on just them again like it was at the start of the show.

but that's kinda contradicted by the fact that Raine is also there now I love Raine don't get me wrong but they have no real business being there as they have no real emotional connection to Belos

and they aren't one of our main characters, and also what's with them being a ruthless killer all of a sudden?

does no one else find that out of character? kind caring sensitive shy but baddass and noble Rain is suddenly stomping a dying man to death while gleefully remarking on how satisfying it was.

that just seemed out of left field tbh.

makes perfect sense for Eda's character she was a criminal who lived on the run for ages and existed in a eat or be eaten type of world ( In most cases literally lol )

and same with little King who she raised but that never really seemed to be who Raine was at least not in my opinion.

so it just makes little sense to me tbh writing wise to have Raine present for such an important moment over other characters who it would make more sense for in terms of storytelling

like I said Hunter could have been given a final moment with Belos even if he wasn't present for his death as that would probably mess him up even more

or Darius could have showed up since Belos literally killed his mentor so him taking part in his death would make a bit more sense given the emotional connection.

or Lilith given the emperor used her for ages promising to cure her sister but secretly never planning to

or the collector who Belos lied to and used for countless years and tried to murder even after he forgave him.

or ya know Raine could just not be there and the scene could actually just be about our main three like people try and claim it is

but having them there over other characters who would make way more sense writing wise just feels wrong and kinda annoying tbh.

[hikaaa-bi]

hot take: gustholomule was way better developed and had more chemistry than huntlow, despite not being a canon ship

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Why is it that fandoms that are based around inclusive or wholesome content turn out to be toxic AF? I’ve seen this with so many children’s fandoms like SU, TOH, Jedi apologist etc where people become extremely hateful for disagreeing. Meanwhile, the least toxic fandom I’ve been in is the Shinji/Rei fandom on discord and Reddit despite the pairing’s controversial nature. Possibly because the people there are mature adults who understand nuance. This is not to give a free pass to dudebros who watch Family Guy and South Park but why is it always the “progressive” fandoms that are the most toxic and puritanical?

[defendingtheowlhouse]

a criticism i have towards THO is that Amity could have been better. I think her backstory is not compelling and her relationship with her mother was less interesting than the one she has with her siblings (especialy since her mother is just Audrey Bourgeois from mlb but with magic). I think her being a bully makes her very dislikable considering the fact she didn't have to bully Willow and that her behaviout towards Luz is just bad and weird since she's the only one who's mean like that of we ignore Bosha and Skara (they didn't matter fr) and she realy doesn't get confronted about it. Her being good at everything makes her quite annoying too. She's able to fight Hunter who is a trained soldier or smth (not saying she can't be strong but that shows favouritism to me. Atleast the fight was entertaining) One thing that negates that a bit is her social ackwardness(i guess) when she misunderstands Luz at the lake wich shows relationships is the one thing she's not good at but actualy wants. But i still think she could have been better. I was just dispointed with her character when i first started the show. People promised me Catra done right and i got a school bully who goes soft because of "kawaii silly human"😭 also she was better with green hair.

I get this, I found her a little boring sometimes too, but our feelings towards characters do not determine their quality.

Now onto the actual arguments: "she didn't have to bully willow and that her behaviour to luz is just bad" no character has to do anything, if her arc didn't start out like this she'd be a different character with different themes.

"She doesn't get confronted about it" while she isn't confronted in a yelling angry way often, she is still confronted. In covention, she reveals her insecurities, helping us understand her motivations and reasoning, her veiws are then confronted by Luz, teaching amity others struggle in the same way she does, eventually accepting that she was wrong and undoing her mistake by undoing the everlasting oath and admitting that luz has the ability to succeed. In lost in language she confronts herself showing her reflectfullness, admitting she hasn't been the friendliest witch either and promising to work on herself and finally in understanding willow she is repeatedly told off by characters like eda and inner willow before (again) explaing her motivations and promising to do better, even then there are still consequences and she still has to work to fix her mistake inner willow calls her attempt "a start" showing us the consequences of her actions towards willow are still there, even after a sorry.

This is in my opinion is a strength, not a weakness, she reflects and chooses to get better, she isn't yelled at or handheld until she does what's right, furthermore it fits into the shows themes of restorative justice, reflecting and choosing to undo your mistakes. It's not focused on retribution or making anyone suffer for what they've done but instead to try and fix the mess made, apologising, undoing the oath, fixing willow's mindscape and making an effort to fix their relationship are all restorative justice.

She isn't "good at everything". in fact, she is the weakest out of her willow and gus. Willow and Gus are exceptionally skilled with multiple episodes focused on their talent while amity "fought her way to the top" she may have been top student but that's never shown as meaning anymore than pretty good for a secondary schooler. This is a show about taking down the government, and we are asked to suspend our disbelief. She needed to win for the plot, so she barely scraped a win. The protagonists needed titan blood, so they got some of the titan blood. In this show background, teenagers are taking down trained, powerful officials with ease.

Another thing mentioned is comparisons to other characters. If you go in thinking a character will be like another character and go a certain way, prepare to be disappointed by the odds of that not happening. For odalia being like that one other person is because she's rich, cruel, and not that deep. Odalia isn't praised for her depth. She isn't a particularly interesting villain because she is made to be a fun one which is subjective and therefore difficult to determine quality

Thank you for coming to me with this discussion, and thanks for your civility (especially after the incident) I hope you have a nice day!

[psychicbarbarianinfluencer]

I wish for the future had used camila a bit more when it came to acting as a parent for the whole group ( mainly hunter and to a lesser extent willow ).

To be honest I very much dislike the way this episode went about hunter's grief and the way his friends acted about it

And I was thinking about this just earlier today but the second to last episode Really would have been a great opportunity for some good Camila and Hunter interactions ( yes I'm a hunter noceda person but that's besides the point lol )

as in the actual episode she seemed to mostly just let the kids run loose And didn't really act like she was the only adult of the group

like I said it would have been a nice chance to see her do some more proper parenting for the group mainly Hunter tbh lol.

and we also could have done with her properly talking to willow and gus as willow's little freak out after Hunter shut them down when they tried to talk to him about flapjack really was not helpful nor healthy.

and it really seemed like it would have been a good chance for Camila to step in and make sure willow and gus are actually doing okay

and also reassuring them that they can't just expect Hunt to instantly be okay or up to talking to them about this and they can't really take it personally like willow did in the episode

and of course just been a more supportive and warm comfort to Hunter regarding his grief in the episode since he didn't really get that in the actual episode ( or from belos at any point in the series )

as his friends kinda twisted it into making him have to support them because he didn't get over his grief quick enough which is just kinda weird writing tbh.

but anyway point is it really feels like for the future should have used Camila more as a parent to the whole group.

and just written the way people reacted to hunter's grief better to be honest.

[mr-damian-s-power]

Is it just me or could the Blight Twins be very easily written out? They don't feel like they NEEDED to exist in the story. They just feel like the long repertoire of characters in TOH who could've been condensed or scrapped entirely.

For one, I don't think much would've been lost if Amity were an only child. I think it would make all of the expectations levied on her more realistic. Amity's story could focus on her reconnecting with Alador and mending bridges between them, maybe even finding out that Odalia grew up in a similar situation to her and cycle of abuse'd those views on Amity. This is furthered by the fact that I don't think Odalia ever actually interacts with the Twins. Do we know what she thinks of them?

Secondly, I don't think they do much plot-wise! What's the most relevant thing they do? Steal Amity's diary! That can be very easily rewritten to Boscha stealing it to gain leverage over Amity. There, I've simply taken away their most important moment.

-

Thoughts?

[polygnosticu]

I kind of feel like shows such as TOH have been a big contributor to the infantilization of adults. Luz doesn’t have to change and everyone who calls her out is made to be in the wrong. This series kind of enabled my worst tendencies with the “I just want to be understood” from a character who did not deserve that. Evangelion actually helped me grow out of that with its harsh but necessary lesson. What do you think?

Evangelion is a discussion I would love to have someday. That show had so many layers to it to dig into and explore. I don't think you can hold The Owl House up to it as Evangelion was a show intended for adults from the outset. Not to mention what Anno Hideaki was going through when he created it. Then that can be said about most anime even when children are the intended demographic.

The fandom of The Owl House seems to have little to no interest in the show Dana Terrace actually created. The show is dark as are the characters but that seems to have escaped the fandom when Lumity became canon and all the fandom cared about was shipping. That's why MoringMark is so popular and almost treated as canon by much of the remaining fandom. They don't want to know just how messed up these people are when you look at the things they've actually done in canon. Luz wanted to blow up a school for her book report. Amity is guilty of at least two attempted homicides. Eda ate a defeated enemy alive. The Demon Realm is well named as it is not a nice place. The show could have been fantastic if Dana had stayed with her original vision of Luz going through a coming-of-age tale in the Disney equivalent of Hell. Instead the fandom wanted Luz to find a happy place where she could be who she was without being judged no matter how inappropriate and dangerous her behavior was.

Amphibia got the concept of the isekai right. The Calamity Trio arrived in Amphibia as irresponsible children and through their journey matured into the young adults we saw at the series' end. TOH fans hated that ending because Anne, Sasha and Marcy grew up beyond their need for a fantasy world to escape into. They preferred Luz retreating to the Demon Realm where she and her friends could remain children forever. Adulthood is scary. Ask me how I know. The Calamity Trio are prepared for the adult world of getting a job, earning and saving money, paying taxes, making new friends and finding new relationships, etc. All the things that mark passage into the adult world. Luz never made that trip. Instead she got a fantasy world where she can stay the child she was in the first episode forever while trapping her friends in their childhoods as well. Amphibia will age well as a series because its creator and fans took the show seriously. The Owl House is largely being forgotten as we speak as its fans move on looking for the next big ship.

[mdhwrites]

The Mis-Projections of Odalia

Odalia's fanon versus canon characterizations are fascinating to me because at every turn, the fandom takes what is actually a reasonable trait of Odalia and cranks it up to 11, even to the point where it's entirely incongruent with both the facts and the spirit of the show. Consider this a continuation of me questioning how bad a parent Odalia is. I will also say upfront here that I have point, beyond just bashing fandom's ability to remember what the show is, for why this matters but I need to get through the rest first.

So, how does the fandom, or most of them at least, characterize Odalia? Well, they make it that she is the root of all evil, abusive, racist, classist, doesn't care about anyone or anything but herself and is a capitalist who only ever sells snake oils and lies.

In the show... She's very few of these things and many of the rest are actually her being a part of the Isle's culture. Not its nebulous culture that's bad but like the ONE element of its culture that is ever consistent. We'll get to that though.

Is she evil? Honestly, by the metrics of the show, not really. She isn't an slaver like the publishing lizard. She doesn't kill people just for fun like the bounty hunters. She doesn't scam people (we'll get back to that) like Tibbles. She isn't entirely good mind you, she's scrupulous and is willing to break her own beliefs when emotions run high but compared to like ALL the other villains in TOH, she's weirdly tame. Now mind you, the villains of TOH are all charicatures based out of the 90s so the bar is ROCK FUCKING BOTTOM but rather than fantasy levels of evil, Odalia is boringly modern and constrained. Put her in the human realm and literally nothing of what she does changes, including making a killer robot. She is not the worst person on the Isles though.

How about being a bigot of any sort? Well, Dana is correct that as far as we see, Belos is the only bigot on the Isles. The closest that ever comes to it otherwise is Boscha scribbling Round Ears on Luz which as far as bigotry goes is the equivalent of calling a kid with glasses four eyes. No, instead, she is, like all of the Isles, merit based in how she treats people. Period. No ifs ands or buts.

I say this so firmly because people don't seem to understand that. Boscha is liked because she is strong and gets results. Amity was popular because she was top of her class and got results. Willow was disliked not because of any racial, religious, gender, etc. element, it was ENTIRELY from the fact that she fucked around, caused trouble and was entirely unskilled. By her own society, young Willow was an abject failure. She wouldn't listen to rules, even simple ones like 'go to class' in the flashback we see with Amity, and her skill with magic was genuinely abysmal until she swapped courses at which point she excelled and became popular.

So, who does Odalia dislike? Gus, Willow and Luz. One of these fuckers doesn't want to follow what he's a savant at and instead wants to chase cryptids by their societies standards, and also got his ass put into detention before breaking detention to get out, the next already had a history of fucking around and is associated with two troublemakers already meaning she is still trouble, and the third... The third is the apprentice to the OWL LADY. She practices WILD MAGIC. Everything about Luz is illegal WITHOUT getting into all the times Luz has broken the law, rules and just general common sense. By a meritocracy, what the Isles is, these three are the bottom of the barrel. It'd be like saying a parent was unreasonable for not wanting their kid to hang out with the sixteen year old drug dealer behind their school and skipping class to do so. She's pretty fucking valid honestly for not wanting Amity to associate with these people.

Is she abusive? This one is more up in the air but besides Escaping Expulsion, we never see consequences for disobeying her, minus when her kids break the law and try to sabotage their own family in Clouds on the Horizon for which they're ONLY GROUNDED instead of way worse. We also never really see her kids worry about punishment outside of, again, Escaping Expulsion where the twins mention not telling mom they're helping but also they don't try to stop Amity out of fear for her own safety. You know, like people who are used to strict retaliation for mistakes should be. Amity quits the covens and seems to have literally no repercussions from that. She can also just keep telling her mom to go fuck off about her hair. This is not the attitude of an abused child. Oh and on the side of Odalia gives zero shits about her family, first I'm going to say I'm entirely ignoring Clouds on the Horizon's bullshit of "I knew about Belos' plan" because there's no reason for her to have been told that, no need for her to have been told that and is such a needless escalation of her character being cartoonishly evil, ratcheting back into being at home with the rest of the villains of TOH, that it it is just a transcendentally bad piece of writing that should only be mocked. HOWEVER. The first time we literally ever hear about Odalia is a moment of kindness and care. She sends the twins to bring Amity her lunch to make sure she eats. That's... Caring. She didn't send them to scold her or punished her by not letting her eat, she sent her troublemaking twins to the library to feed her and probably in hopes that the twins might study a bit. That's a fine mom move. Without more that is clearly abuse, I see it as neutral at worst. The necklace is the same way. It's more secretive than sending her daughter texts but they all have cellphones, she can just text her and that's really all she ever does with the necklace. She never actually controls Amity with it. Without more to sustain allegations of abuse, I don't see it as anything particularly nasty.

And finally: Is she a scammer? I won't say she isn't a capitalist but TOH never tears down the whole economy and the Isles appears to be by volume 80% scammers or criminals of some sort when it comes to their shopkeeps so capitalism is still absolutely a thing. Is Odalia one of these though? No. The worst she does is exaggeration and that's just marketing. It's not false advertising, it's just painting your product the best you can. She never says the abomaton can take down an Emperor's Coven guard so a trained, albeit young but also top of her class, abomination witch being able to take down the abomaton 1.0? Yeah. that's not lying. It still would do a plenty good job protecting your home and kids from things most people want out of their home defense systems like burglars. It also factually can do everything else Odalia promised. We're shown that. Whether it does it well is up for debate but it DOES do everything legitimately with Amity up until she's supposed to feign being in danger which like... Did you want her to be actually in danger? Actually have her life at risk? Because that would be irresponsible especially to do to your OWN DAUGHTER. She only removes essentially the safety constraints once it's someone she gives no shits about and sees gain in their removal (and also is pissed.) That's not scamming people, that's a product demonstration. It was still able to grab Amity and lift her in the air with one arm, showing its strength. Also, everything else Odalia shows off as Blight Industry tech is legit, much to Luz's detriment.

SO. As you can see, the fandom is essentially dead wrong when it comes to Odalia. They took kernals of truth, that she's a strict mom, capitalist, judgemental, etc. and blew them up to be as bad as they could be. Why did they do this though? Why is this even important?

Well, it's because the show WANTS you to take her that far. Amity doesn't actually do much to redeem herself, especially to those she wrongs. She NEVER does anything but a bare minimum apology to Willow for YEARS of bullying that Odalia didn't ask her to do. Odalia just asked her to stop being friends with Willow. But hey, since all Amity does is an apology, that Willow only kind of accepts, literally stating they're not friends still... What do you do about that? Standing up to Boscha is for Luz after all. Standing up to her mom is for Luz. She never even bashes the ideologies she used to have to show her change, just that she was nebulously wrong but she's better now without any real sacrifice or meaningful acts of redemption. So... As a viewer, what the fuck do you do with that?

Edit: Someone pointed out that she doesn't actually apologize. She does say she was wrong when she was younger which is actually good for redemption BUUUUUT she claims she'll make Boscha and everyone else stop bullying Willow. Then Winging it Like Witches happens where Amity doesn't give a fuck about what Boscha is doing until it is focus fired on Luz making her whole speech there just a bold faced lie. Good job Amity.

Well, you do what the show did and scapegoat people. Why is it okay that Amity abandons her friends like she did Willow so many years ago? Because they're evil and bad people, or Boscha is at least, despite Boscha doing nothing Amity hasn't already in the show. But she was only like that because of her mom. Her awful, abusive, controlling, classist...

Wait a second. Do you dear reader see the problem?

This is why the projection is required. TOH actually is really bad at redemption arcs, namely that it doesn't know what redemption means besides no longer being a dick, and so you actually no way to forgive the characters for what they did by what they do. As such, you need excuses. The people the fandom hates the most are usually those scapegoats, especially for Amity. Why is Boscha worse than Belos when all she is is a bully? Because people claim she was the reason Amity was a bully and shift the fact that Amity was Willow's main bully to Boscha, despite all evidence to the contrary. Why do they make Odalia worse than all other villains in media combined? Because otherwise, their blorbo, the lesbian that helped make TOH as popular as it was, the one who was endlessly praised for having a transcendentally written character arc... Is never redeemed nor actually has much of an arc or depth to her character. She NEEDS to have all these serious elements put upon her through her mom or else... She's just a mean girl who fell in love and decided to care about one person and be a LITTLE better to other people. Remember, at the point of Labyrinth Runners, an entire season after Understanding Willow, Amity does not recognize that she was wrong that Willow is weak despite Willow's entire character for the past season being defined by how overpowered she. Amity very clearly has not been paying attention or caring about anyone about Luz and that's not what a good person does? You care because caring is the correct thing to do.

And I care because I would like her to be written better. I would like her to be more than what she was. I would like the whole show to be. But... Odalia isn't what you think she is and that matters because it means Amity isn't either. The show isn't either. See you next tale.

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