#fandom politics

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

In Defense of Shinji/Rei

Out of all the pairings in the Evangelion fandom, Shinji/Rei is one of the most controversial and least popular, especially here on tumblr. It did have some popularity at one point but that has died down in favor of Kawoshin and Asurei. It’s a ship that I, and many others, feel is often mischaracterized and dismissed due to its more controversial elements but one that is honestly very emotional and deserves less hate in my opinion, as do it’s shippers who people also have a misguided view of. Fandom in general has become more moralistic and puritanical in recent years. It’s like no one learned a thing from the SU fandom discourse where people were bullied or called homophobic for liking a certain pairing over the other.

Argument 1: she’s his mother/sister

The most common criticism of the pairing is that it’s incest and that their relationship is that of a brother-sister or mother-son. First, Rei’s whole arc in the show is that she’s not just a clone or copy of Yui or Lilith. She’s her own person with her own desires which is why her loyalty to Gendo wanes as she becomes more of an individual. Her DNA also isn’t that similar to Shinji and only a small amount of Yui’s was used. The rest was affected by Lilith hence the differences in their appearance. So there is a little bit of blood relation but it’s not on the same level of say Bwen or Pinecest. Incest is terrible because it’s a betrayal of family trust and abuse but Shinji and Rei met as teens and were not raised as siblings, nor did he know of her origin until Ritsuko explained it.

I’ve also seen the argument that their bond is sibling-like or Shinji views her as a Madonna/mother figure. Anno has stated that he intended there to be a “love triangle” with the pilot trio and show’s proposal described Rei as having “learned about feelings when she fell in love”. While that info comes from Reddit and may not be reliable, it does challenge the idea that there was no intention for their dynamic to be romantic.

Next, antis really take that elevator scene out of context where Shinji was complimenting her on being like a mom while ignoring him telling her she’d make a good housewife. The rebuilds and manga make their connection more blatant but it was always there. Misato, Toji and Kensuke all tease Shinji about his crush and the two act as friends after warming up despite their icy first interactions. There may be some maternal aspects to it but it’s rather simplistic to dumb their bond down to a family connection. It seems antis argue that they’re siblings because the romantic implications are uncomfortable and antis don’t want to admit that they do have feelings for each other.

Argument 2: it’s misogynistic and queer erasure

Okay, this is a less common argument against it but one I’ve seen from popular Eva analysis writers that view Kawoshin as the only valid pairing for Shinji. I’ve seen it used against Asushin and Marishin too. This goes hand and hand with the idea that Shinji views Rei as a Madonna and is misogynistic. I have a lot of thoughts about the “Shinji is an incel misogynist and Asuka did nothing wrong” discourse but that’s for another day. He’s not a perfect uwu soft boy but fans seem to base his entire characterization off the hospital scene in rather single issue Eva analyses that cherry-pick certain scenes or dialogue.

The argument that it’s queer erasure is one I’m starting to despise. Yes, there are homophobic dudebro fans who hate Kawoshin but not everyone who prefers a “straight” pairing is anti gay. Shinji could still be bisexual and be in a m/f relationship. I’ve also seen some ship him in a polycule with Rei and Kaworu. Plus, not everyone has to interpret the show or character the same way. The writers made it so people can view Kawoshin as romantic and Shinji as queer, but never demanded that be the only possible interpretation.

This kind reminds me of something I’ve occasionally seen in the Ben 10 fandom too. A few fans, not all of them, treating the wholesome gay ship as the only good pairing because of the problematic elements in the m/f ships or because they view the male protagonist as a misogynist. The “male character is sexist or a bad boyfriend so let’s make him gay” is also a fandom trope that kind of irritates me. Not every ship has be gay or a girlboss romance either.

Argument 3: they’re kids and you can’t ship them

This is one of the least common criticisms but one that I’ve occasionally encountered. First, they’re 14 which is around the time a lot of teens start dating. Second, romance =/= sex and child/teen characters can have romantic feelings for each other. Yes, ship wars over fictional kids can escalate but there’s nothing wrong with just liking a pairing. This post about Chihiro and Haku’s bond from Spirited Away kind of applies here too.

My thoughts: why do I love this pairing?

I first fell in love with this ship because I watched the rebuilds first on Amazon Prime and didn’t know the series was on Netflix because my account, embarrassingly, still has parental controls on it. I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea but I liked them. Shinji was a character I really connected to and so was Rei. Their relationship got me a bit emotional and the scene where Shinji attempts to save her had me on the edge of my seat, while the scene where Shinji accepts Rei Q got a tear out of me as did the apology scene in 3.0+1.0.

If I had to compare them to any other pairing, which I’ve done before, it would be Hodaka/Hina from Weathering with You which also is a bit divisive and a bit of a tearjerker. Ironically, EoE is one of Makoto Shinkai’s favorites and he considers Anno an inspiration. Everything from their bond to Hodaka’s character and Hina’s arc of a blue haired girl, blackish-blue in Hina’s case, that’s lived a difficult life and who’s only purpose is to be a sacrificial lamb, learning to pray for herself is a lot like Shinji/Rei, down the ending of WWY being a lot like that of 2.22. The scene where Hodaka gives Hina a promise ring is also a little like the “smile” moment from Episode 6/1.11.

Conclusion

In short, Shinji/Rei isn’t a bad pairing and is overhated and misrepresented by many in the fandom. It’s fine to dislike it or prefer another ship but one can do so without chomping at the bit to paint its shippers as homophobes, misogynists or people with incest fetishes or Oedipal complexes. Many of us like it because it’s one of the least toxic relationships in the series and is honestly a very powerful story. Are there some questionable elements in it? Sure, but you can like a ship even if it’s not up to golden moral standards and expecting every pairing to be unproblematic is ridiculous. Real life is much more grey than what moralistic fans claim.

[problematicbyler]

an incomplete history of byler sexuality discourse

and how widespread fandom purity culture and homophobia created a flourishing nsfw sub-fandom

some may call me chronically online, but i call myself a fandom historian. i've been a member of some fandom or another since i was about thirteen, and i've always been interested in the rise and fall of fandom discourse. though it's annoying in the moment it's happening, i think it's very interesting and telling to look back at the overall arcs and trends.

so, let's talk about the many times the fandom has cancelled people over byler sexuality, and how each level of "hornygate" has contributed to the growth of the proship/byler smut community.

(i use the term proship in its intended definition, which is to say, not "problematic shipping," but rather being pro-fiction, anti-censorship, and anti-harassment; it is a position of believing the fiction one creates or consumes doesn't reflect a person's real life beliefs or morals.)

i have been a stranger things lover since season 1, a byler shipper since season 2, and an active part of the byler community on tumblr since season 4. i'll mostly be focusing on post-season 4 discourse because that's what i've really been most present for and that was the period that really marked a turning point in the fandom.

seasons 1-3

i wasn't as plugged into fandom discourse back in the day, but the broad strokes of early discourse was mostly thinly veiled homophobia. claiming that it was sexualization to assume will or mike could be queer despite blatant queer coding, implying that analysts were no better than will's bullies to assume his sexuality, etc etc. people were criticized for shipping byler at all because they were so young (but these people naturally had no issue with mileven, so, again, homophobia).

season 4 (may-july 2022)

now, season 4. this is where byler was brought to the attention of a lot more fans, and stranger things' viewership reached wider than ever. the byler fandom on tumblr booms from 4k to 100k over the course of season 4's release.

this brought a lot of new people who have never been in fandoms before, people who never learned don't like don't read or your kink is not my kink and that's okay or ship and let ship.

or, a lot of times, people who had only been in fandoms for celebrities and bands, which tend to have different rules when it comes to shipping and sex, because they're real people. hence a lot of young antis' conflation of character with their actors, but that's a different rant.

so with a rapidly growing fandom, a show ripe for analysis, and the art of media literacy bleeding out on the ground in front of us, the hellscape of the fandom post-season 4 in 2022 followed as such:

august 2022

jo/kendra gate where two extremely popular analysts were called out for "sexualizing" byler while being adults (early to mid 20s). they were dogpiled and harassed because one of them said that will was giving mike "bedroom eyes" (he was) and one of them said mike was checking will out (he was):

pyshiie and moogate. the proship side of byler twitter rose up and started to divide itself. i'll credit my own joining-the-dark-side to pyshiie and moo, formerly barbjeanisms, who were two popular artists called out respectively for sexualizing byler and generally being proship. similarly, people were called out and criticized for even following or interacting with those accounts after this discourse.

september 2022

hosegate is the most famous across the byler fandom, and it's when some users proposed that the scene in the pizzeria uses phallic imagery to imply mike turns will on (or vice versa) and a lot of people thought that was too sexualized, it caused a divide, and more fanpolicing, etc.

october 2022

the artist noodlesandtea was harassed for having liked arguably nsfw bakudeku art (they were shirtless, it wasn't explicit) on the same account where they draw characters who are minors. they also drew byler kissing, which was a problem for some? anyone who defended them was also called a pedo, naturally. noodles also got called out for having drawn fanart of the popular e-rated fanfiction....

the unmarked mixtape. a massively popular sequel to a massively popular fic, the red envelope. for a long time, those were the most widely recommended byler fics, but it very soon became taboo to even admit to reading them because the sequel has explicit sex and the first has them making out.

sonnet116 gate is another fic that was beloved and then rapidly turned on by byler twitter because it had implied, fade to black sex scenes. it was about them hooking up but had no smut. and even the non explicit idea of that was offensive and pedophilic of anyone who dared read it. around this time, another fic was called out for having will moaning into a kiss, because writing a teenager moaning was also offensive and pedophilic.

i'm told i (jana / troublebyler gate?) may have influenced a lot of people joining twitter for byler smut after writing illicit affairs and some other smutty oneshots in rapid succession, seeing a lot of byler shippers moving to the proship side of the fandom just to discuss and write byler smut. i also hosted a little fandom gossip column on my curiouscat where a lot of folks confessed to reading or writing smut while pretending to be "normal" in the "main" fandom. it basically revealed/implied that a large amount of popular authors, artists, and accounts were secretly pro byler smut, and that many proshippers were "undercover" in the "main" fandom.

the blocklist era. around this time the "main" fandom also created a "st twt safety" account on twitter which was basically targeted harassment and mass reporting of proshippers. the account does warn of some genuine bad actors sending gore images via dms, being racist, etc. but by far, the majority of it was simply calling out proshippers for sexualizing byler, sharing screenshots they thought were "gross," which only resulted in spreading nsfw content to unintended audiences of minors that likely never would have seen the nsfw accounts otherwise.

november 2022

practice kissing gate is where a handful of popular fic writers were criticized for writing practice kissing fics (such as undertow), and in fact, any amount of byler making out, because adults "fantasizing" about teenagers kissing was "gross."

the proship corner of st twitter continued to grow a lot thanks to so many lovely fan creators, all of whom i couldn't possibly list but who have done a lot for the community! but we continued to get bombarded with endless callout posts and block lists and witch hunting. people were unabashedly policing people's following lists and likes on twitter to call people out for engaging with any questionable users or content. (if you search byler twitter now you can still see the wreckage of so many witch hunts.)

onward through 2023

over time things have mostly calmed down, or at least enough of the folks on "opposing sides" of the fandom have mutually blocked each other to survive. this is likely also influenced by the hiatus leaving the fandom to quiet down, the collapse of twitter-turned-x having many users migrate their fandom content elsewhere, and the mass exodus of many people from the fandom for political reasons. if i had to guess, the ramp-up to season 5 will see all new conflict as more "casual" fans return to the fandom. but who's to say.

which brings us to now:

spicybylerpolls gate, wherein the byler tag on tumblr collectively had to reckon with the fact that people want byler to have sex and it doesn't make them creeps to vote in silly polls about it. people criticized the blog for being overly sexualized and pure fantasy versus more "acceptable" analysis, with many making sweeping moralizing statements about anyone who dared interact with the blog.

this has kicked off tumblr's own sort of horny revolution in encouraging folks to be more open on here, whereas previously we were confined to our corner of twitter.

so in summary:

people over and over again put fan creators on a pedestal just to turn on them when they're "betrayed" when a person's views did not one-to-one line up to theirs.

teens in the fandom especially were "betrayed" by adults in the fandom they thought were "safe" (and i would argue that self proclaimed "safe" adults in fandom are far more dangerous to real life minors than the proship fans who sexualize fictional characters but dont interact with real teens)

most everything has been fueled by widespread ageism at any fan over the age of 18, widespread homophobia and puritanism in regards to exploring queer sexuality or discussing sex at all

so much hate has been over what are essentially "thought crimes", with people watering down serious accusations like pedophilia into a petty insult over disagreements on fiction

and the cycle repeats itself endlessly until things devolve back into witch hunting and policing peoples following and likes etc

the best part to me is that every single cancellation just resulted in more people flooding to the horny side of the fandom to post more freely and without shame. every time a person on twitter posted screenshots of my account to say how "gross" it was (while simultaneously exposing my 18+ nsfw content to their audience of minors) i had a surge in followers. the more the fandom squeezes, the more people slip from its hold.

but that doesn't make the harassment campaigns okay, and it doesn't mean the fandom didn't do massive amounts of harm to real people in an attempt to protect fictional characters.

my hope going forward is that the fandom can coexist as a community where people don't have to like or agree with certain content to treat the people who create it with respect and dignity. and i hope that, while this side of the fandom might grow more on tumblr, we don't have to relive the same old discourses and go through the same cycles we went through on twitter.

and remember kids, the block button is both free and fun.

[shsl-fujoshi]

Well, my theory that AO3 is being invaded and subverted, and targetted by psyops is almost certainly true at this point.

[soft-persephone]

Think black writers should just start writing just as un-inclusive and start putting phrases about skin not being able to blush, wearing bonnets, using unapologetic amount of aave, and themes about the context of where reader is and how they treat black people, but tag the whole thing as normal x reader.

Then when you get an ask calling you out on it, act like they are over exaggerating and you have no idea what they’re talking about.

[ultimate-marysue]

I feel like the misogyny in fandom is only partially the fandom's fault. Let me explain: if the piece of media you're a fan of has a 50/50 female to male ratio, and treats its female characters with the same love, nuance and respect they treat their male characters with... Obviously you have a bigger chance of having your favorite character be a woman instead of a men.

If there's only one or two women, if they're written like shit, if they're not allowed the same complexity (because they're just set dressing or because "feminism dictates female characters can't have flaws" lest they call you out) well obviously you're gonna gravitate to the more nuanced male characters. If you don't care enough to write compelling female characters why should the audience feel compelled?

Don't get me wrong, even great female characters get sidelined in favor of "tall dudes with (dubiously) homoerotic tension". But in fandoms with majority female characters/really compelling female leads, the vibes are completely different. Even if there are still assholes. A great example is the fandom of Game of Thrones vs the fandom of A Song of Ice and Fire. When all your female characters either feel the same brand of girlboss/badass or are framed as annoying/evil while most of your male characters (even the evil ones) are painted as cool and badass as opposed to having a full cast of nuanced characters of both genders... yeah misogyny is gonna happen.

So yeah, we do need to work on our internalized misogyny and we do need to point out when we or the fandom treat female characters unfairly. But we also need more stories that love their female characters as much as their male counterparts. No one has the guts to hate on the female characters of The Locked Tomb Series. Mostly because why would you read a book with a mostly queer female cast about necromancy and the awfulness of love if you hated complex female characters??

We should try to give more attention to those stories. Once you start asking "isn't it weird there's no interesting women here?" When you watch/read/listen to a story you find yourself not caring much for a lot of shows. Hell it's why I can't watch most shonen anymore and why I gave up on supernatural at some point. As a "consumer" (hate that word) I also have the option to stop caring about a show that clearly doesn't care about me (or any woman for that matter).

Does this mean you can't read Sasunaru fanfic anymore? No, but when you start a new show you might want to keep that question in mind. And you also may want to consider specifically searching out for works about women or that care about their female cast as much as their male counterparts.

The fandoms don't yearn for the misogyny as much as we think. I've seen some fandom really work the terribly written female characters into extremely compelling stories. Or write new female characters in fandoms with barely any (shout out to "Local Skate Dads Adopt Three Sons and a Hooligan" for adding like three new female characters to a show with one and a half).

Our internalized misogyny is left alone to fester in a desert, deprived of good female characters. Of course people develop an almost paraphilic obsession with M/M ships when they've been trained from birth on shows that don't care for their female cast (if they have any). We center men because society centers men. And we have to do the individual job of decentering men/centering women while also aknowledging that the people that make our shows aren't doing the job.

Also if you're reading this and wondering "what even is good female representation? What kind of show should I watch?" Read the locked tomb series. Trust me, it is a religious experience (not just for women, it has so much gender in it).

Has this all been a ploy to get you to read about TLT? Yes. I also recommend The Magnus Protocol for podcasts, and Derry Girls for tv shows. They're all so good.

[girls-gays-theys]

I think this tweet has single-handedly reshaped my view of fandom discourse.

like.... You're right, they are just fictional characters and I have better things to be doing than arguing about them on the Internet.

[selkies-world]

Would you guys be interested in an analytical essay looking at the distinction between fanfic writing styles which make it identifiable as a genre of writing, versus the writing style of traditional books regardless of their genre or subgenre, and how it's the lack of understanding from authors about this distinction and the lack of knowledge about how to alter their writing style when moving from fanfiction to original fiction is why so many people hate on the "fanfic to published author pipeline" so much rn????

I'd also be looking at howbthe argument that many classic & popular books "are fanfic" is essentially untrue, and based on a misunderstanding of the distinction between fanfic and original stories are. In amongst it, I'd also be taking a look at how "retellings" of stories have caused people to think the line between fanfic and original stories is blurred, when it really isn't.

100 notes and I'll start writing this

[youhideastar]

The U.S. legal profession and the OTW: a few thoughts

I don't feel that I have a ton of value to add to the conversation currently taking place about structural/organizational problems with the OTW and the way that those affect the well-being of fans in general and OTW volunteers in particular. But given that it appears some of those problems are (correctly, in my view) attributed to the Legal Committee and given that I am a real, live practicing U.S. lawyer, I thought a few comments about the legal profession and how that might be affecting the Legal Committee could perhaps offer a little value. To be clear, I am not now and never have been an OTW volunteer of any kind, let alone for the Legal Committee (a thing I really regret now!), and I do not know the current or former composition of the Committee beyond what is general fandom knowledge. I'm also super uncomfortable purporting to speak for the entire legal profession, but to keep this post to a manageable length, I'm going to leave out all the caveats and "on the other hand"s that I would normally include. Please forgive my presumption and feel free to add on or take issue!

The OTW website says the Committee is "[m]ostly comprised of legal professionals." My understanding is that it is almost entirely comprised of U.S. attorneys. This has demographic implications. To become an attorney here, you must be at least ~26 years old, for starters (you need an undergraduate degree, a 3-year graduate law degree, and then you need to pass the bar exam), and most new lawyers feel very wet-behind-the-ears and would be hesitant to volunteer alongside more experienced lawyers (much less to challenge them) for years thereafter. This means that Committee members are likely to be the fandom old guard - they remember Strikethrough and were probably around for the founding of the OTW itself. Additionally, the legal profession is disproportionately white, male, and wealthy.

The legal profession is incredibly hierarchical and credential/status-obsessed. To a degree that outsiders would probably find hard to believe. You can practice law for 30 years and people will still want to know where you went to law school and where you clerked afterward (and will still take you less seriously if your answers aren't "a top-14 school" and "a federal court"). In this pecking order, law professors are very, very high. Second only to judges. And no professor ranks higher than a professor at Harvard freaking Law, such as, e.g., Rebecca Tushnet. Even a professor at a low-ranked law school, like Betsy Rosenblatt, gets a lot of deference.

Lawyers do not take non-lawyers seriously. We go through this grueling law school admissions process, followed by 3+ years of hazing (that leaves a demographically unremarkable group of law school admittees with shocking rates of mental illness and substance use problems) teaching us that only we have the keys to understand this hugely important system of rules that governs every aspect of human interaction, stuffing our minds with a whole new language of "attractive nuisance" and "expressio unius," and then we're unleashed on a world in which people are constantly doing stupid shit that's going to get them sued, and it breeds both unhealthy insularity and a hell of a God complex. It makes us think we can do anything (like write public statements without input from a professional communications team...).

Lawyers are pathologically risk-averse. First, we self-select for that - most law students are kids who were damn good writers but scared of trying to make a living writing fiction/screenplays/whatever. And second, law school trains us for precisely that: the exams test, not primarily for knowledge of legal rules, but for a skill called "issue-spotting," which is basically "looking at a set of facts and figuring out all the million ways the people in that scenario could get sued." For many practicing lawyers, figuring out how to spot shit that their clients are doing that could get them sued and then telling them to stop it is their whole job. And it can be exhausting, because people/organizations love doing shit that could get them sued. It's like parenting a toddler - constant vigilance to keep the client from sticking their fingers in a metaphorical wall socket or running out into the metaphorical street. (See how I fell there into #3, framing non-lawyers as children who need the lawyer-parent to keep them out of trouble? It comes so naturally.) The Committee has managed to keep the OTW from being sued for 16 years (to my knowledge) and counting, despite the fact that the org's projects, especially AO3, engage in incredibly legally risky activities. To give the Committee their due, that is a hell of a track record. You can see how that might feed the God complex.

There are also, to be clear, many good things about the legal profession and a legal education. But the goal here is to give fans who are outside of this very specific and insular subculture a few pieces of information that might help them understand why this body of people is acting the way it's acting - not to excuse it, but rather to help folks understand what might need to change both within and around the OTW's Legal Committee to create the better OTW that many in fandom, including me, really, really want to see.

Please feel free to ask questions and to correct anything I got wrong! And apologies again for generalizing at such a high level.

[valkyries-and-marauders]

Am I the only one who thinks that it's okay for people to not like the canon female love interests of M/M ships? Even if it's because of that? Like, I could see where you're coming from, but so many het non-canon ship's fans hate the male love interests.

Just for examples:

Harmione Shippers with Ron

Jacella shippers with Edward (and also probably Bedward shippers with Jacob too back in the day)

Gale x Katniss (don't know the ship name sawry) with Peeta

And also, this kind of thing just happens so much rarer with gay ships than het ships. Like the average gay shipper of wolfstar or whatever will love the canon female love interest just think she's the wrong fit (I have met many a lesbian wolfstar shipper with a crush on Tonks) while I can absolutely not say that about ships like Harmione. The minority can exist. They're not doing anything illegal.

The only time I can kind of -- kind of -- see it is the Perachel -- Percabeth thing (and that's not even gay). This is because Percabeth shippers that hate on Rachel are often the first people to say that Luke was redeemed despite him being just as much of a boundary to Percabeth as Rachel was, if not more. If anyone was blamed for that, it was more often that not Annabeth.

Even so, this can still be explained by character bias. Rachel was only in the last one and a half books, and was very much a side character, having very little to do with the main plot. Her arc was small, and she existed mainly to create drama. Luke, however, was not only present throughout all five books, being introduced at around the same time as Annabeth, but had an extremely long and complex character arc that wasn't just related to the main plot, but was one of them.

So ye leave the gays be

[pinkblink]

Shipping discourse:

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

A rant about Jedi Stans from an ex-Jedi fangirl

After some time I've had to reflect on my own behavior as well as my time in the pro Jedi fandom, I decided it's time to call this shit out. Some people take it really personal if someone criticized your favorite characters or their beliefs. Ironically, you all act more like the Sith than the Jedi with how obsessive you can be and insisting any criticism is equal to wanting genocide.

I'm going to start by saying I was in the pro jedi fandom for a few months. Truth be told, I was using it as an outlet for some of my anger issues with my hate towards Anakin, seeing him as similar to a lot of people I've had to deal with. Some of it was wanting more followers and fear of being disliked by the majority. I would pick fights with Anakin fans and was a bit of an asshole and I apologize for that. I still don't like him but no longer HATE him. Seeing how fandoms treat abuse victims who aren't perfect angels like Shinji Ikari or Lapis Lazuli has caused me to loosen up a bit. Many Jedi stans would probably hate those characters for not being “perfect” victims. In retrospect, this wasn't a good community for me. It was very puritanical and I often felt like I was wrong for enjoying media that went against the beliefs Jedi Stans put on a pedestal. Three of my favorite ships (Madohomu, Reishin and Hodaka x Hina) involve "burning the world for one person" and I felt like I couldn't talk about them without being a hypocrite. That and me agreeing less and less with Luca's beliefs pushed me to leave.

It's fine to enjoy a fictional character and defend them if you feel that they're being unfairly criticized. I've done it myself and have written essays defending my faves. The problem is that Jedi stans don't know when to stop. So many are quick to compare the Jedi to minority religions or marginalized groups as a shield against criticism, not recognizing how insulting that can be. Jewish, asian and aroace people are the ones normally used due to the Jedi beliefs being based off Eastern religions as well as Judaism as well as some aroace people identifying with the Jedi.

One thing I noticed about Jedi stans is their similarities to Jumblr which is full of religious chauvinism reworded to sound progressive. Many of them talk about how the Jedi shouldn't have to change their traditions with the times or to accommodate a few individuals like Anakin or Ahsoka. This can be similar to how a lot of people are quick to defend minority religions from outside criticism based on how they were treated by Christian colonists or missionaries. The problem is that this can veer right into ableist or queerphobic territory. You know who else believe that their religion shouldn't have to change with the times to accommodate people? Conservative Christians who hate being told to be affirming of LGBTQ people. Also, schools and parents/guardians do have a responsibility to accommodate kids with disabilities, mental health issues or trauma, even if it may be inconvenient or force you to bend the rules. Claiming they need to just suck it up is honestly disgusting.

This was all a big reason for why I left this garbage pit of a fandom. While there are some who hate the Jedi because they stan the empire or think people need 50s nuclear families to live fulfilling lives, not everyone does that. Believe it or not, some people have faced abuse and bigotry under Judaism and Buddhism. People can also criticize how Lucas presented their beliefs as some Buddhists think he didn't do a good job. Libsoftiktok is a vile transphobe, an Orthodox Jew and her beliefs are said to be fairly common in her community. Many people of color identify with the clones and dislike how even the nicer Jedi treated them. When Obi Wan told Anakin, "It's okay to have romantic feelings, but you must let them pass," that hits different for queer people who have been told similar things from "polite" homophobes. Some queer people do choose celibacy like Side B christians which is fine as long as they don't treat it as a moral failure to want a relationship. There are many neurodivergent people who don't like the Jedi beliefs as they hit close to home. Lucas may have not intended to come off as ableist but the Jedi did with their beliefs about negative emotions. To some people, platitudes like "just let go" aren't helpful and treating it as bad for not living up to those principles is gross.

I deleted the post, but a while back I made a post asking a popular pro jedi blogger their views on adoption since they claimed Anakin not viewing the Jedi as his "found family" was a moral failure. I found their response to be tone deaf and insulting. I responded in a decent way of course, but felt a bit judged and unhappy for wanting to know my birth mother. Adoptees are another set of people this fandom is insensitive and gross to. The Kenobi series I find insulting for that reason too, having Leia be a foil for Anakin and Obi Wan romanticize his recruitment as a child.

Jedi fans are also shitty to those with religious trauma and who faced abuse. Accusing anyone who criticizes the Jedi of projecting their issues with Christianity while simultaneously talking like conservatives as shown above. Tumblr in general has a weird habit of treating religion as if it’s either conservative evangelicalism, liberal reform Judaism and some vague pagan or eastern spirituality with little nuance. Some Jedi stans really come from a place of privilege. Claiming "they can just leave" is insulting to real religious abuse survivors who were raised with harmful beliefs like creationism or homophobia. I'm no antitheist but treating non christian religion as inherently progressive dismisses a lot of people's experiences.

Let's be real, the writing in this franchise was always a bit sloppy. Lucas's issue was wanting to simultaneously create both a black-and-white morality tale for kids based on the fairy tales and serials he grew up and a deep socio-political commentary about the Vietnam and Iraq wars which required some morally grey themes. Thus, along with his terrible dialogue that made the characters seem unlikable, is why the fandom is so divided over whether he intended people to agree with the prequel Jedi.

To wrap this up, I found the pro jedi fandom to be a terrible experience. It was a mix of faux progressivism mixed with fear of judgement for disagreeing. I ended up editing a post I made, and eventually deleted, comparing Yoda with Garnet from SU because I included a tiny bit of criticism and didn't want to get backlash. As long as it’s not gross or bigoted criticism of your favorite characters isn't the end of the world. People don't have to like George Lucas or his beliefs and put them on a pedestal. I feel like the fandom's worship of George comes in response to OT purists who claimed he "raped their childhoods" but there's fair criticism to be made. Just like how not everyone who criticizes Disney SW or any Disney media in general is an "anti woke" grifter. To the pro jedi fans reading this, here's a suggestion. Just block and ignore people, write an essay if you feel it's important, but don't act like an entitled bully if a blog or even a SW writer disagrees with the Jedi, interprets the story differently or criticizes your favorite characters.

[neogotmyblack]

Astrasng

I think we excludees can agree that the story was going just fine without l it needing to be made only for people light enough to turn pink

[kharmii]

I was today year’s old when I learned of the “blankshipping commission drama” and while I haven’t been active in the Submas fandom for ages, I’m shocked that there even is drama about this artist in particular. They’ve been drawing intensely fetishistic NSFW for months yet a leaked commission is the last straw for the antis? Make it make sense. Either way, kindergarten shit like this makes me glad I’m not involved anymore (not to mention the lack of Submas fanfic that I enjoy).

Tldr; I hope the antis will leave that artist alone, even though it would’ve been better had said artist just been honest from the start instead of trying to appease the anti-crowd.

Right!? It's validation of everything I've been on about for the last year or two, the hypocrisy behind cherry picking the two 'unacceptable' stupid fetishes that make you an actual criminal that antis will threaten death upon. It's okay to subject the children to every other stupid fetish, but no incest or underage. All the popular artists know it's stupid, but they have to play the politics so the money train isn't jeopardized. Many of them have 'Pro shippers DNI' posted at the tops of their fat furry hermaphrodite Twitter accounts, and they most certainly have created a Blankshipping side account at one time or another.

Submas has been drying up, even amongst the Japanese. It seems like only a handful of artists are holding it up on the general tags, and they are all hoping Emmet shows up in the new Legends game because they are running dry on both shipping content and AUs. -Same with Volo, who has an impressive amount of fan art based on pretty privilege, but they have to give us more canon because there's only so many times people are willing to go over the same things over and over. It's probably an endless frustration in the pokemon fandom where they crank out new one-shot characters left and right, then immediately move on to something else.

[soft-persephone]

Yall know how racist women feel when a black woman is the center of attention in media? That’s how I feel about white women in media. I would love this xyz so much more if this random white lady wasn’t here. It feels unrealistic and they only have platonic chemistry anyway. What happened to friendships in media? :/

[ultimate-marysue]

A part of the AFTG fandom acts awfully entitled when it comes to Nora. I would assume it's because they're not used to interacting so casually with their fav authors, but I don't see people talking like that to fanfic writers either (for the most part).

Reviews are for the readers goes both ways and I don't understand why you tag and @/ her on Twitter just to bitch about the things you dislike. For starters, If you're a fan of the books it means you must like them. So why on earth would you choose to complain about the "bad things" when faced with the opportunity to talk to the author? I would ask her questions, fangirl about my fav moments, share my fanworks... Not talk about the specific singular thing I didn't vibe with. Because, guess what? I didn't write the book

I really don't understand it. I've criticized some elements of the books but I don't tag Nora. I'm not commissioning her for a story. She wrote the books, we bought the books. We got what we paid for, she doesn't owe us anything else. If you want more, write it yourself or commission a writer. Especially the Thea shit. My problem with that character is that she exists for less than one page, you could easily ignore it. I don't get the need to @/ the author saying "you should have edited this two paragraphs out because given the near non-existing info we get on her I think she's a bad person" (as if aftg isn't full of bad and questionable people, as if characters can only be good instead of interesting, as if we know anything about her).

I hate the way people talk about art and creative works as if they are, not only something to consume, but something that is owed to you. Like the author's owe you making all your headcanons canon. You people have lost your minds, that's not how it works. You're allowed to have your headcanons and share them with the fandom, but so is the author??? Only the books are canon, and not even the author can prevent you from skipping over the Thea parts if you want to pretend they're not there.

I'm hoping this is just kids getting into the books now, because I cringe at the thought of adult people seriously expecting their fav author to make their whims canon. Canon divergence is the beauty of fandom! Taking something you already like and giving your own two cents. Creating something out of love for the source material even if it's flawed. Harassing the author because you dislike a character that's barely there sucks the joy out of fandom. We don't deserve Nora, and she definitely doesn't deserve having to deal with this shit.

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

ok ok ok toh fandom. STOP IT. This is a Long Post but please PLEASE read this. It is fully okay and expected to be defensive of Dana and angry, burning with rage even, at Disney. “Gnawing the bars of my cage foaming at the mouth I will kill the mouse with my bear hands” is a totally normal (and correct) reaction. HOWEVER. keep the weight of your anger OFF of other fans. Unless they are posting spoilers untagged, I don’t wanna hear it. I came into the TOH tag to see what had happened, and I found post after post after post portraying the FANS who chose to watch the leaks as criminal, rude, and generally uglybadnasty- it was hard to even find a post explaining WHY watching the leaks is harmful that wasn’t condescending and insulting. In fact I think I saw as many/more posts angry at other fans than I did at Disney. Feel however the fuck you want about it, but this is quickly turning into “The Fans Who Watched It” vs “The Fans Who Didn’t” and yknow what? I’ve seen this pattern before, and ya’ll are playing EXACTLY into Disney’s hands. The LAST thing Disney wants is a united and supported fanbase with a coherent message ready to speak out when the show ends. They WANT the fandom to start fighting itself because it takes the focus off them, they WANT the “if you watched it you’re ugly gross badperson” rhetoric to continue to intensify, and eventually cause “the other side” to retaliate. THERE SHOULD NOT BE SIDES HERE. Our enemy is DISNEY, NOT OTHER FANS. other fans who watched the leaks (again, unless they’re posting untagged spoilers) are NOT the person you are angry at. They did NOT do the damage (Also no, before anyone tries to jump down my throat abt this: I did not watch the leaks and I do not plan to). Posting your anger and rage about what Disney did and spreading it as far as you can is GOOD. informing fans who just walked into this why watching these leaks is harmful in a way that doesn’t make them feel like horrible people for not knowing is REALLY GOOD. But for the love of god DO NOT make posts lumping “fans who watched it” into a group, or memes that label them as villains or clowns. God, I have seen this before so many times. Please, PLEASE listen to this long rambly post and DO NOT LET THEM DIVIDE US. I WILL REPEAT THIS ONE MORE TIME. THEY WANT US FIGHTING EACH OTHER AND THEY WANT IT TO BE AS TOXIC AND MESSY AS POSSIBLE. DONT LET THEM SILENCE US BY TURNING US ON EACH OTHER. THEY ARE BAITING US. THEY SEE OUR POWER AS A COLLECTIVE FANDOM AND THEY ARE AFRAID OF IT. THEY WANT THAT ANGER AND THAT POWER TO FOCUS ANYWHERE BUT THEM AND TO BURN ITSELF OUT. THEY SEE US AS A UNITED FRONT AND WANT TO DESTROY IT. !!!!THIS!!!!! IS!!!!! WHAT!!!!!! THEY!!!!! WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!