#other mxtx novels sort of

[zimszim]

so many people are now sort of aware of this weird foresight that shen qingqiu possesses and are questioning him about it, and it's so telling how it's only really happening now that shen qingqiu is pretty much completely emotionally invested, even if he doesn't quite know it yet. i would say there might be one or two more scenes that will really cement it for him, but this is his life and these are people he cares for. i think the more that knowledge weighs on him, the less likely he'll be able to just sit back and watch things happen, that he'll make moves before the novel calls for them or despite system warnings because he wants to protect them

[uncultureddoubloon]

Let's see if I can get through an episode or two of SVSSS before D&D tonight

[doufudanshi]

ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?

There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—

Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.

To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.

(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)

Demon vs. ghost

Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:

魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”

鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”

To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):

妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.

And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)

So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.

Running the numbers

1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.

魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.

Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:

魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号，这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法，他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.

2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans. 

鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.

Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):

蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.

Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:

蓝忘机看着他，似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍，吸了一口气，道：“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道：“鬼道损身，损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”

3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.

It appears ~24 times in the novel.

I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):

金凌怒道：“是在谈论薛洋，我说的不对吗？薛洋干了什么？他是个禽兽不如的人渣，魏婴比他更让人恶心！什么叫‘不能一概而论’？这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害，就是该统统都杀光，死光，灭绝！” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动，魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了，嚷道：“你发这么大火干什么？思追又没说魏无羡不该杀，他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人，你有必要乱摔东西吗？那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”

Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao. 

In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.

魏无羡早就听说过，这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士，把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.

So why the confusion?

Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.

The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.

However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."

So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"

One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."

My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."

(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡���了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)

I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?

(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)

[mxtxfanatic]

Let’s talk Yi City Arc! I’ve seen a few posts since my time in the fandom that talks about the Yi City Arc as unnecessary or out of place in the whole of the mdzs narrative. I’ve even seen some suggest that the disconnect is because Yi City was originally a separate story to mdzs, a sort of prototype, if you will, to explain it away. I, too, after my first read questioned the significance of this arc to the overall story. However, the Yi City arc and its placement so early in the novel is actually just a huge and very clever spoiler to most of the important plot points of the overarching story… if you know what plot points to look for, which an un-spoiled first-time reader would not. So let’s talk about those spoilers:

1) The righteous cultivation clans’ refusal to stand against evil—and, really, their indulgence of it—leads to the wiping out of an entire clan and a monastery as well as the deaths of two powerful cultivators unaffiliated with any major sect.

The “righteous” cultivation clans happily ignore that fact that the Jin Clan is amassing power through unscrupulous guest disciples, and it is only when Xiao Xingchen, an outsider, brings the crime against the Chang Clan to light do they bother to pretend to do anything about it. However behind the scenes, the Jin Clan assassinates their only real opposition, and the other clans, great and small, continue to do nothing as Xue Yang is released to commit another massacre. The Jin are never held responsible for their actions. Likewise, all the clans turn away from Wei Wuxian, an outsider, when he calls out the Jin Clan’s crimes against the Wen remnants and accuses them of amassing power via poaching vassal clans and attempting to steal his tools. Behind the scenes, the Jin work to undermine Wei Wuxian’s reputation before joining in to massacre Wei Wuxian and the Wen remnants. The Jin are never held accountable for this, which directly leads into the Xue Yang situation.

2) Xiao Xingchen has his reputation slandered by Xue Yang killing others using his sword.

After Xiao Xingchen kills himself, Xue Yang begins using his sword to enact “vengeance” on the remnants of the Chang Clan, who he considers as having “betrayed” Xiao Xingchen. Finding the signature of Xiao Xingchen’s sword on the slain bodies leads the cultivation world to believe that a disillusioned Xiao Xingchen is killing in revenge. In much the same way, Wei Wuxian is used as a scapegoat by the cultivation world whenever bad things happen, such as the presence of walking corpses or the mass digging of graves. In neither situation does any clan investigate the true events of the situations, happy to blame the easiest suspect and allow the unrest to continue. In both situations, Xiao Xingchen and Wei Wuxian are eventually found innocent of the crimes for which they are accused, and the true culprit is revealed.

3) Xiao Xingchen is betrayed by someone he considered close to him, which eventually leads to his death.

Xiao Xingchen, due to being literally blinded by his sacrifice, ends up running into, rescuing, and caring for his mortal enemy, Xue Yang. Taking advantage of Xiao Xingchen’s blindness, Xue Yang tricks him into murdering a bunch of innocents and his best friend, causing him to commit suicide. Wei Wuxian, similarly, is betrayed by a close friend he kept near, figuratively blinded by a former childhood friendship and the present debt he felt owed to said friend’s parents. This misplaced trust directly leads to his death.

4) Xiao Xingchen must give up his eyes for Song Lan to see again, because Baoshan Sanren is not magical.

This is probably the biggest spoiler of the entire arc, but by the time you get to where this information is relevant, you’d probably have forgotten that this was even said. Xue Yang blinds Song Lan after destroying his home, and to atone for this, Xiao Xingchen goes to his master, Baoshan Sanren, to beg for her help. However, Baoshan Sanren cannot make something out of nothing. Mxtx explicitly writes that tidbit into the narration. Song Lan goes up the mountain blind and comes down with eyes. Xiao Xingchen goes up the mountain with eyes and comes down blind. Song Lan was given Xiao Xingchen’s eyes.

Much later in the story, Jiang Cheng loses his golden core. Wei Wuxian offers the miracle solution of Baoshan Sanren “giving” him a new one. Jiang Cheng, obviously skeptical, questions Wei Wuxian up until the moment he must go up “Baoshan Sanren’s mountain” alone. Wei Wuxian descends, alone, looking pale and weak. Later, when Wei Wuxian is ambushed by the Wen, Wen “Core-melting Hand” Zhuliu touches him and is visibly shocked by a discovery that he then keeps to himself. Jiang Cheng emerges from the mountain with a new golden core, while Wei Wuxian emerges from the Burial Mounds with a new cultivation method wholly independent of the need for a golden core. The Yi City arc tells us why this is: “Baoshan Sanren” cannot make something out of nothing.

And these are just the major parallels I remember off the top of my head. However, while a reread makes a lot of these parallels directly applicable to specific plot points in Wei Wuxian’s own story, I would argue that the biggest role the explicit paralleling is meant to play for a new reader is to make you question the dominant narrative of the main story. The narration tells us that Wei Wuxian is a bloodthirsty man who may as well be a demon, known for cruelty and vengeance. We see none of that from his character when he is resurrected. Then we get a mini-drama where a man with attributes Wei Wuxian directly relates to, with a story Wei Wuxian directly compares to his own life, is scapegoated by society, killed, then eventually vindicated. If nothing else, the Yi City Arc is meant to make you, as a reader, stop and go “Hey, wait a minute, what if Wei Wuxian isn’t the bad guy here???” And once you understand that, you should start questioning everything the prologue told you, just like the juniors start to question what they were told about Xiao Xingchen post Yi City in their group debrief.

[marshmallowwitharubberband]

Something that pops up at me in MXTX's stories is the duality of suffering from "can't have women thriving in my very gay sausage fest" syndrome (which is very prevalent in BL and some people categorize as internalized misogyny — something I don't wanna get into rn), but at the same time, a recurring but subtle (or maybe ignored) theme in her stories is portraying sex workers as people. All three of her novels feature prostitutes as background characters, but, for the most part, their portrayal isn't truly negative.

Shen Jiu preferred sleeping in brothels because he felt safer there, and it's treated as something tragic but ultimately harmless.

Jin Guangyao was reviled for being a prostitute's son, but this is clearly stated by the novel to be morally wrong and fueled by the nobles' prejudice and superficiality.

Wei Wuxian was a-ok with hanging out with or helping ghost sex workers and doesn't call any sort of attention to it. They're just regular ghosts to him.

Even Xie Lian's encounter with the brothel workers in Ghost Town doesn't paint them in a bad light, they're merely pushy like any other vendor of any other product would be.

Whatever their role or narrative purpose when they appear, they aren't portrayed like some symbol of corruption or evil, they're simply workers doing their job.

That's pretty neat.

[danmeiconfession]

This is just an opinion.

I’m sorry, but I can’t support a protagonist like Shen Yuan if he can’t respect the body of the person he’s taken over. The transmigration trope in many of these novels often leads to the erasure of the original soul, which makes me feel sad for them. While I understand why many fans like his character, I can’t root for him anymore. There’s a sort of horror in knowing that he and the rest of the readers pushed for such a bleak ending for Shen Jiu. An omnipotent being forces him to be a scum villain, and the person who condemned him has now taken over his body, his name, and married his abuser, his torturer. Imagine how horrified he’d be to learn he’s married to his own disciple—it’s disgusting. Someone who is just like all the men in his life takes away his autonomy and the name he earned; Shen Qingqiu is literally ripped away from him.

I remember someone mentioning that Shen Jiu follows the formula of MXTX's shou protagonists, and they’re right. The only difference is that he’s not allowed to gain a second chance. When Wei Wuxian tried to save the Wens, it cost him everything, similar to how Shen Jiu’s attempt to save his martial brother set off a domino effect of tragedy.

There’s a difference between Shen Jiu and Shen Yuan. Unlike Shen Yuan, whose path is clear and predictable, Shen Jiu’s very rare but kind actions often lead to dire consequences. Each time he tries to do something good, the world retaliates harshly. That’s why I like Shen Jiu more. I don’t mind a character’s misdeeds if they reveal something profound about them. Shen Jiu’s attempts to do good, even when they backfire, show his sincerity. Shen Yuan’s choices, on the other hand, seem easy and don’t require much moral struggle.

What saddens me is that a rich, lazy millennial is thrust into the body of a traumatized orphan and somehow gets the happy ending. Even if he didn’t ask for it, there’s a moral duty to respect the original character he's inhabited now because without Shen Jiu’s body, Shen Yuan would have no purpose is that even a lie because what goals or aspirations did he even have? We truly have nilch to go off what he's like without he's online persona but frankly he's a bad person to me if he harasses an author and makes no effort to even get himself to express his emotions especially his apathy like the fuck bro what going on here bro?? How do you just not give a shit about anything besides your beloved LBG like he's cuckoo up in the head like a few bolts and screws were lost in the making of his birth.

It actually made me mad, to be honest. I wish the author had never created Shen Jiu as a character because it spoiled my enjoyment of the book that I took as fun entertainment. SVSSS was the first transmigration story I read that gave the original soul such an important role. Other stories often use these bodies as self-insert devices, but knowing Shen Jiu is an actual character made me see him differently.

I also find it unsettling that Shen Yuan has to live as another person for the rest of his life. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words. If the author isn’t going to do an identity reveal in an MXTX story, what does that say about Shen Yuan’s relationship with everyone else and the ML included? Wouldn’t everything fall apart? Doesn't that mean something is off lol???

This omission to me kinda undermines the foundation of his relationships, especially with the main love interest. Living a lie means that Shen Yuan’s connections are based on a false premise. If those around him, including the main love interest, don’t know who he truly is, their interactions and feelings might be based on their own misconceptions. In essence, the story hinges on Shen Jiu because his life and identity are the foundation upon which Shen Yuan builds his new existence and I find SY careless and disregard of that to be unappealing for a protagonist to follow .

I can see how the System's role in "SVSSS" can be interpreted as a form of horror, especially considering the implications for Shen Jiu. Here's an expanded take on your guys idea a theory of sorts:

The System's reasoning for booting Shen Jiu out and replacing him with Shen Yuan could be seen as a chillingly calculated move. Shen Jiu’s unwillingness to follow the predetermined outline and his resistance to the System's goals could have led to his removal. The System’s primary objective seems to be the satisfaction and happiness of Luo Binghe, the protagonist. Given the tragic nature of "PIDW" (Proud Immortal Demon Way), the System might have sought a more compliant individual to ensure a more favorable outcome for Luo Binghe.

If the protagonist, Luo Binghe, obsessively desires companionship and affection from Shen Qingqiu, and the original Shen Jiu isn't reciprocating, the System might decide to alter the course of the world. This new beginning involves replacing Shen Jiu with someone who not only understands the narrative but is also deeply invested in Luo Binghe's happiness—someone like Shen Yuan. As a form of punishment for Shen Jiu’s disobedience, the System forces him to take a backseat, helplessly watching as events unfold with Shen Yuan in control of his body.

This scenario adds a layer of horror, as it portrays the System as an omnipotent force capable of rewriting lives and fates to suit its goals. Shen Jiu’s autonomy is completely stripped away, and he’s forced to witness his own life being manipulated and his identity being overridden. By replacing Shen Jiu with Shen Yuan, the System ensures that Luo Binghe’s desires are met, but at the cost of Shen Jiu’s existence.

.

[khattikeri]

maybe a controversial opinion but while i really love jiang cheng as a character he is deeply self-centered as a person. and seeing people fight tooth and nail claiming he isn't, or is just misunderstood, or that he has genuine valid reasons to be selfish when plenty of other characters make the difficult choice to forego status and opportunities for what they believe is genuinely right to do (read: wei wuxian, wen ning, wen qing, lan wangji, jiang yanli, mianmian, etc.)

it's just odd to me. especially if they're talking about the novels.

mxtx didn't give jiang cheng the name "sandu shengshou" as a quirky coincidence. there's a REASON she named him & his sword after the 3 poisons of Buddhism (specifically ignorance, greed, and hatred). it's crucial to the story that jiang cheng is NOT selfless and that wei wuxian IS.

it's important to accept that wei wuxian is, by their society's standards, not morally gray; he represents several Buddhist ideals in direct contrast of jiang cheng and multiple people attest to wei wuxian's strong moral character, which is a lot of why jiang cheng even feels bitter about him to begin with.

it's crucial, because by the end of the novel jiang cheng realizes the extent of this and begins to let go!

the twin prides thing wasn't jiang cheng wanting them to 100% mirror the twin jades. he does care about wei wuxian, but he wanted wei wuxian to stay his right hand man, in part the way wei changze was for jiang fengmian.

and if there's one thing you can notice about wei changze in the novels, it's that literally nobody talks about him. he is only ever mentioned when his cool mysterious mountain sect wife cangse-sanren is mentioned, or (even more rarely) when they discuss him as a servant to jiang fengmian. regardless of jiang fengmian's own feelings, wei changze was considered lesser to him and didn't seem to outdo him, since nobody's out there years later still waxing poetry about wei changze's skills.

it may not be the only thing jiang cheng wants out of a twin pride dynamic, but it is a big part of it. regardless of his parents' intentions in taking wei wuxian in and treating him certain ways, this twin pride right-hand man thing is what jiang cheng has felt owed since childhood. he gave up his dogs for wei wuxian, people gossip about his sect heir position with wei wuxian there... jiang cheng wants the reciprocation of what he views as personal sacrifices.

he is ignorant to the depth of what wei wuxian must've suffered for over 6 years as a malnourished orphan child on the streets. he hates how wei wuxian's intelligence, witty charm, and cultivation abilities are naturally stronger than his own. he does care about wei wuxian a lot and want them to be together as sort of-brothers, sort of-friends, sort of-young master and sect servant...

...but if it's between that unclear (yet still caring) relationship and being able to save himself just a little bit more, jiang cheng nearly always manages to clam up in the face of danger and choose the latter, which ultimately benefits himself most. maybe it's a stretch to call that sort of thing greed, but it certainly isn't selfless.

there are of course plenty of justifications for this. it's his duty as sect heir. his home and sect was severely damaged by the wen attack and subsequent war; he had to protect himself, etc.

but doesn't that prove the point?

wei wuxian may be charming, but in terms of pure social standing, he is lower and far more susceptible to being punished or placed in harm's way by people who have more power and money. to protect wei wuxian, yunmeng jiang's long-term head disciple and semi-family member, even in the face of backlash and public scrutiny would've been the selfless thing to do. this is what wei wuxian does for the wen remnants in the burial mounds.

jiang cheng does not choose this. it's not even an unreasonable choice for him to make! nobody else in the great clans is doing such a thing, stepping out of line to take on a burden that could weaken them in the long-run. wei wuxian himself doesn't hate jiang cheng for it; he lets go of these things and focuses on what good he can do in the present.

jiang cheng thinks further into the future - what would happen to him if he continued vouching for wei wuxian and taking his side? what about jiang cheng's face, his sect's face? would wei wuxian even care to reciprocate somehow? everyone expects him to cut off wei wuxian for being dangerous, for threatening his position, for...

do you see what i mean? to call jiang cheng selfless for falling in line with exactly what people expected him to do after the war is not only wrong, it's foolish.

"but they faked their falling-out!" okay. why fake it to begin with, except to protect jiang cheng and the jiang sect's own face? is that selfless? who does it ultimately serve to protect? wei wuxian canonically internalizes the idea that he stains all that he touches, including lan wangji, and agrees to the fake fight because he doesn't want to cause the jiang sect harm. regardless, it eventually slides into a true falling-out, and in the end jiang cheng is more or less unscathed reputation-wise while wei wuxian falls.

that isn't selfless. it's many things! it's respecting his clan and his ancestors, it's making a good plan for the future of his sect and cultivation... but it isn't a truly selfless in the interest of what's right rather than in the interest of duty and what's good for him and his family lineage.

that brings me to my next point: even though wei wuxian hid the truth of the golden core transfer, jiang cheng spent nearly 20 years believing that the golden core "renewal" he was given was a birthright gift of wei wuxian's from baoshan-sanren, an immortal sect teacher of wei wuxian's mother's and a martial elder to wei wuxian.

of course we all know that's a big fat lie, but jiang cheng believed that wei wuxian gave up a critical emergency use gift to him for decades! he was lied to, yes, but jiang cheng immediately agreed without even needing to be convinced. the light in his dead eyes came back with hope the moment wei wuxian even said baoshan-sanren's name. he accepted wei wuxian's offer to give that up to him and take it via identity theft without missing a beat.

with how mysterious and revered baoshan-sanren is, that's obviously not a light sacrifice to just give up to anyone, no matter how close they might be to you. pretending to be wei wuxian to take the gift could even be considered dangerous. what if she found out and got offended? could wei wuxian be hurt by that?

jiang cheng doesn't even hesitate. wei wuxian is the one who mentions that if jiang cheng doesn't pretend to be him, the immortal master could get angry and they'd both be goners. and funnily enough, the day they do go to "the mountain", jiang cheng is the one worried and suspiciously wondering if wei wuxian was lying to him or had misremembered.

of course they've both been traumatized like hell prior to this point. but still: it speaks to how broken he was at the moment as well as to his character overall.

i digress: jiang cheng "gets his golden core back" via what he believed was a gift that should've been wei wuxian's to use in serious emergencies. rather than use it for himself, wei wuxian risked his own safety and gave it to jiang cheng... and jiang cheng still ends up embittered and angry, believing that wei wuxian is arrogant and selfish.

if he truly views them as 100% brothers and equals with no caveats, why would he think that way? it's not like he needs to grovel before wei wuxian for doing that, or to reciprocate... but this is what i mean when i say jiang cheng feels he is owed things by wei wuxian. wei wuxian's actions hold a very different weight in jiang cheng's mind, and jiang cheng himself doesn't ever act the same way, except once.

is it wrong for him to feel like he is owed something? it depends. many asian cultures, including my own, feel that a person owes their family in ways that may not make sense to westerners. for example, it's considered normal for a child to owe their parents for giving birth to them, or to other caretakers for feeding, clothing, sheltering, educating them, etc.

however, something like verbally saying "thank you" or "i'm sorry" to family is considered crazy- why would you owe that? you're supposed to inconvenience your family; saying thank you or sorry is the sort of thing you say to a stranger or acquaintance. i get half-seriously lectured by my elders on this a lot even now, even though they know such phrases are just considered good manners in the US.

this muddies up the idea of wei wuxian being jiang cheng's family vs his family's charge or servant even more. jiang cheng wants wei wuxian to be close... but ultimately doesn't really choose to use what power he DOES have to protect wei wuxian. he considers himself still owed something that in his mind wei wuxian flagrantly never repays.

this isn't even getting into how despite spending a majority of his time with the yiling patriarch he never once noticed that wei wuxian stopped using any spiritual power-based cultivation. even lan wangji, who met them far more rarely, realized that something was wrong and that wei wuxian had taken some sort of spiritual damage, hence the "come with me to gusu".

of course manpain is fun and i'm not immune to the juicy idea of them reconciling and talking things out... but jiang cheng is deeply mired in his own desire to be "above" wei wuxian in multiple ways, and doesn't realize the extent of wei wuxian's actions, the intentions behind them, and the consequences wei wuxian knowingly faced for them.

to not recognize this about jiang cheng, especially in the novels, is really revisionist if you ask me. i reiterate that i really do like him a lot. he's flawed, angry, traumatized and has poor coping mechanisms, an overall fascinating character... but he is not selfless nor ideal, and i seriously draw the line at people saying he is.

wen ning shoves this all into his face at lotus pier to disastrous results. it is the reason why jiang cheng's a total mess at guanyin temple, and the reason jiang cheng ultimately doesn't tell wei wuxian about the fact that he ran towards the wens on purpose.

for that one last act of his to have really been selfless, he needs to not seek anything in return. he did it purely because it was right to do to protect someone else. if that means wei wuxian never finds out about it, so be it.

that moment that ended up causing jiang cheng irreversible harm is not a debt that wei wuxian owes him. it hurts, but no matter how bitter it is, that realization is so important to him changing in the future.

[svsssfanonarchive]

Welcome!

This is your official-unofficial source for all things SVSSS fanon-debunking! As a veteran reader of MXTX's least popular novel and someone with a PhD in SVSSS literature, I have taken on the arduous task of separating fact from fiction... or well, specifically, canon from fanon.

《 Disclaimer: The purpose of this blog is textual analysis, not to tell people what fanon or canon material to use or not to use in their fanworks, or to make moral judgments on the way people interpret the text. Please see my faq and psa tags for more about my views on the matter. 》

There is a significant affliction within this fandom, where fanon ideas are assumed to be canonical facts-- to the point where sometimes fanon will even end up on the official SVSSS wiki 😱😱😱!!!

I've met quite a lot of people who are surprised to find out that something they think is canon is actually fanon, and even a few that are the other way around, so I've decided to start this blog to help people sort it out!

My credentials and qualifications are as follows:

PhD in SVSSS literature (awarded to me by a disgruntled SJ apologist).

A good minimum of 50-75% of available brain-space devoted to SVSSS at all times

Consummate knowledge of minute lore details

Near-memorization of a good portion of the novel, with the added ability to find any quote within 10 minutes of searching (in both EN and CN)

Author of a fic that is currently over 300k words long and counting, which was originally written out of spite for fanon portrayals of certain characters and themes

The ability to write 5k+ rants about any given topic in the space of an afternoon

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How this blog works:

You, dear reader, send in a suspected fanon topic to my askbox. Or perhaps it's something you suspect to be canon, but would like confirmation on.

I will then write a post on this topic (on no set schedule, I go as the wind takes me~), first applying a rating (more details below), then adding further information as needed. Topics with either support or rebuttal in canon will have quoted evidence presented, those without either of those things will simply have a brief explanation.

I will also add some analysis or potential interpretations and readings but I will do my best not to add my pure opinions to these posts-- this blog is about textual evidence! So, do not reblog my posts to argue with me based on your headcanons! If you want to argue against one of my posts, provide a quoted source from the novel!

Otherwise, I will most likely block you :>

Any hateful content or attempts to start fandom wank on my posts or in my inbox will get deleted and blocked. Anyone who provides textual evidence that changes my rating or analysis will be very much appreciated and receive the Golden Cucumber Award.

At the end of the day, this blog is entirely about canonical textual analysis and has no bearing whatsoever on what people want to headcanon or use in their fics. It's fandom. Do Whatever You Want Forever. Who am I to say you can't use a certain headcanon?

Just please treat headcanons as headcanons. No matter how deeply-entrenched into fanon they may be, they're still not canon and shouldn't be treated as such.

If you're of the mind that you'll still do whatever you want without regards for canon, then you're probably not the intended audience for this blog. If you're someone who wants to clarify whether a popular idea has a basis in canon or not, then read on to learn more about the rating system and see already-discussed topics!

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Rating System

WHAT DO I CONSIDER CANON? (please read before commenting)

Each exposed fanon or canon will receive a rating and analysis. The ratings are interpreted as follows:

CANON - This fact is directly or indirectly supported by the text! If you want to stay true to canon, this should be treated as fact.

FANON - SUPPORTED - Though the text doesn't directly state this is true, it is a very likely interpretation based on various factors including historical precedent and cultural norms, genre tropes, and the occam's razor principle.

FANON - NEUTRAL - The text neither confirms or denies this. It may be true or it may be false, and the matter is entirely up for interpretation. Many fanon will likely fall into this category, and whether you adopt it or not won't affect how true to canon your interpretations are.

FANON - UNSUPPORTED - While the text may not be directly against this headcanon, it is still an unlikely interpretation based on various factors including historical precedent and cultural norms, genre tropes, and the occam's razor principle.

FANON - CONFLICTING - The text goes directly against this interpretation, and there are quotes that prove it to be incorrect. If you wish to stay true to canon, it's best not to include this idea.

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Awards:

I will give out three awards on this blog for those who assist me in keeping fanon and canon separate!

The Bronze Cucumber Award will be given to anyone who reblogs my post and adds significant additional context in support of/explaining my analysis. This may be textual context or "support" context (cultural norms/historical precedence/genre tropes/etc.). Since this fandom likes to analyze, I will only be giving out this award to those who specifically add details and ideas that are not rooted in my original analysis (such as, a quote from a completely different part of the book, or a linguistic explanation that provides context), rather than those who simply expand on what I already wrote.

The Silver Cucumber Award will be given to those who reblog one of my analysis posts with a source telling the origin of a particular fanon idea. This is wonderful for archival purposes-- just as it's good to see where canon ideas come from, it can also be helpful to know where a fanon idea originated, in order to have proper context. Only the first responder to provide a fanon origin will receive the award (so that this blog doesn't get too clogged up).

The Golden Cucumber Award will be given to those who reblog one of my posts with a debunking of my analysis-- as long as they provide directly-quoted evidence that disproves my points. This evidence should be based on the text of the novel itself, and I should be able to look it up in my own copy. I will be more selective with giving out golden cucumbers to reblogs that debunk on the basis of "support" elements (cultural norms/historical precedence/genre tropes, etc.) because many of those topics can be somewhat subjective.

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Previously-Tackled Concepts

(See below the cut for a full list)

CANON

CQMS Twelve Peaks' have Color-Coded Uniforms

Shen Yuan has a Younger Sister

Mobei-jun has Blue Eyes

Shen Yuan is a Monster Nerd

Airplane was a Child of Divorced Parents

Ning Yingying is Younger than Luo Binghe

FANON - SUPPORTED

Shen Jiu Only Goes to Brothels to Sleep, Not to Have Sex

Mobei-jun and Shang Qinghua Eventually Get Married

FANON - NEUTRAL

Shen Qingqiu is Banned from Xian Shu Peak

Shen Qingqiu Wears a Cinnabar Mark on his Forehead

Shen Yuan Wore Glasses in his Previous Life

FANON - UNSUPPORTED

Shen Yuan was Chronically/Terminally Ill in his First Life

Shen Yuan was a Socially Awkward, Introverted Shut-In By Nature

Luo Binghe has Curly Hair

Aphrodisiac-Producing Plants are an Ever-Present Danger in the World of PIDW

FANON - CONFLICTING

Ming Fan was Head Disciple of Qing Jing Peak

Luo Binghe Received Both Scars from the Abyss Scene

Qiu Haitang has More than One Older Brother

Shen Qingqiu has Green Eyes

All Demons Naturally have Forehead Marks

Luo Binghe has a "Stereotypically Masculine" Appearance

Xuan Su is a Large, Broad, Imposing-Looking Sword

Shen Yuan's Original Body Closely Resembled Shen Qingqiu's

Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu were Meant to End Up Together in the Original Draft of PIDW

CANON EXAMINED

Shen Yuan's PIDW-Reading Timeline

Cang Qiong Mountain Sect Hierarchy (tag)

The Pre-Canon Timeline and Character Ages

[piosplayhouse]

Ayo thank you for your contribution to society and world culture through the SVSSS iceberg, now if you don’t mind can you please explain it? I’ve been in the fandom a while but I swear I’ve never heard of some of these

Sure! Explanations will be sorted under the cut:

SHEN YUAN TIER:

- all items in this tier are either surface level details from the source material or

- daily bingpup is a popular fandom meme (used in the metal gear sense lmfao) started by @ kamkamquats on Twitter that's pretty self explanatory: kam draws and posts a bingpup picture every day! The archive is available here.

I probably should have made this point just bingpup, as I believe his origins precede kam's art, but she certainly boosted his popularity significantly, and now her art and bingpup are canonized with the publishing of the 4th volume English translation of the novel, so I thought it was a fun point!

LUO BINGHE TIER:

- Feynite's au collection: an extremely popular collection of alternate universe fics written by legendary Scum Villain fic author Feynite.

- Scum Villain is a tragedy: an interpretation of the books that poses that from every other perspective besides Shen Yuan's, Scum Villain is an incredibly depressing tragedy.

- Luo Binghe is Airplane's self insert: "Don't asky why Luo Binghe wasn't the embodiment of [Airplane's] ideal man; Luo Binghe's use had primarily been to fulfill his desire to be a badass and get revenge, as well as his desire for wanton [this section has been censored]" (The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System volume 4, page 163).

- Shen Yuan died on his birthday: Shen Yuan's death date is never given in the original novels, but in the first scene of the donghua when he dies while at his computer, you can catch a glimpse at the date reading September 21st (both his birthday and the day svsss was published!)

- Shen Qingqiu's canon fursona: binghe compares sqq to a crane multiple times in the story but is depicted as a cat in fandom much more frequently, leading people to joke about how the fandom disregards his "canon" fursona in the same way bingpup is much more prevalent than sheep binghe.

- Shen Qingqiu can knit: there's official crossover Christmas merchandise that shows all of the mxtx couples participating in different holiday activities: wangxian are decorating a tree, hualian are baking cookies, and shen qingqiu is knitting a scarf for luo binghe.

- Luo Binghe's birthday: Luo Binghe is actually the only main mxtx character that doesn't have a canon birthday. He's noted in the books as being born on "the coldest days of the year", but it's debatable whether this is late December or early January, and there's no specific date from this that we can confirm is his birthday.

- sv manhua's indefinite hiatus: much to the excitement of starved fans, a Scum Villain manhua began publishing in 2019. It ran for a grand total of 3 wonderful weeks before being unceremoniously put on indefinite hiatus because of drama within the fanbase stemming from rumors that the artist/company drawing it actually hated scum villain. It has yet to return.

SHEN JIU TIER:

- Moshang's horrible first time: MXTX stated in a Q&A interview that neither Mobei-Jun nor Shang Qinghua enjoyed their first time having sex together.

- Shen Qingqiu invented maxi pads: the "scum villain pad commercial" is a commercial from the first season of the donghua depicting an exchange where Ning Yingying is self conscious about going out on her period because her sanitary supplies aren't cute, so Shen Qingqiu magics her up some maxi pads.

- Shen Yuan read mpreg yaoi: "#18 Peerless Cucumber [Expert]: Upthread, keep cool. This forum has a lot of Green JJ sisters 😎" (The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System volume 4, page 145). / "''Great Master' Liu! Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky didn't write a green Jinjiang mpreg novel!'" (The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System volume 4, page 295).

- Shen Jiu transmigrated into Shen Yuan: A somewhat popular theory in the fandom that when Shen Jiu died, he transmigrated into modern day Shen Yuan the same way Shen Yuan did to him.

- Cursed monkey island: Cursed monkey island is/was a private discord server made up of very og sv fans that was known for outputting somewhat dark/off-color/weird fics for each other, often with funny porn spoof names and niche concepts. The first fics from there were published in 2018, while the last fic in the collection seems to have been published in 2022, so they might still be active, but I'm not sure.

- Moshang has a 20 year age difference: Shang Qinghua died at at least age 20 (probably older) and since he transmigrated into a baby, he has 20 extra years of consciousness from his first life on the PIDW native characters, who he meets when they're both teenagers in the Airplane extras. Though physically the same age group, he would've been mentally somewhere around 30-40 years old at this point getting bullied by teenagers.

- The microwave: some of the first previews released for the donghua were static turnaround videos of the 3D models set to elevator music -- after these dropped, it was radio silence on the show's status for a long, long time. Fans called these previews "the microwave" because of the static rotation of the models and referred to the time it took for the donghua to come out as "defrosting it in the microwave". There's a fair amount of art/memes from this time period featuring the characters literally inside microwaves, even to the point where people made microwave-themed SV merch. When the donghua finally came out bingqiu were declared "free from the microwave" and a wave of fanart of them destroying microwave prisons emerged.

TIANLANG JUN TIER:

- Wangxian have read resentment of chunshan: in the mdzs audio drama extra episode "Accompanying you to sleep - Lan Wangji", Lan Wangji takes care of a drunk Wei Wuxian by getting him ready for bed. Towards the end of the episode, Wei Wuxian asks Lan Wangji to read him a bedtime story. Lan Wangji says he isn't good at telling stories and Wei Wuxian suggest he reads him The Resentment of Chunshan (bingqiu fanfiction). Unfortunately, Lan Wangji had never heard of it before and thereby could not ASMR it.

- Six Balls x Zhuzhi Lang: a rarepair (also called bamboo balls) written by the lovely Alex here.

- Shen Qingqiu has the protagonist halo: a theory/headcanon suggesting that when Shen Yuan transmigrated, the role of protagonist and subsequent protagonist halo left Luo Binghe and transferred onto him. Often used in angst canon divergences wherein due to the lack of a protagonist halo, Binghe dies from an event he otherwise would have survived because of his story invulnerability.

- Shen Yuan's sister found his dead body: an angst headcanon centering around the idea that Shen Yuan's sister found his dead body rotting in his apartment after he died- very good art made about this here!! (Gore/blood cw)

- Who is zhuzhi lang's dad: we all know zhuzhi-lang's dad was a big snake but what kind of big snake? How big? Why did his mom fuck him? all important questions heavily debated about in this fandom.

MOBEI JUN TIER:

- Every ship is cumplane: we already know Luo Binghe is Airplane's self insert, and Mobei-Jun's cold demeanor is somewhat reminiscent of Peerless Cucumber's tsundere wife-isms, making bingqiu and moshang arguable proto-cumplanes. However, we can go further and argue because Airplane created the entire world of PIDW, all of it in a way reflects him and his feelings, therefore meaning that because it loves Shen Qingqiu and Shen Qingqiu loves it back, every possible PIDW asset x sqq is cumplane in its basest form.

- Original donghua designs: the first pv for the donghua actually featured slightly different designs for bingqiu, which were then changed later in production! You can see the original ones here.

- PIDW is real: someone actually posted PIDW on jjwxc so you can get the real Shen Yuan experience.

SHANG QINGHUA TIER:

- Shen Yuan penetrated into the body of the scum villain: there is a listing for the svsss donghua on Amazon prime video (though no episodes are actually available) which features this banger summary:

 An ordinary youth, Shen Yuan, after reading the novel "Arrogant Gods and Demons' Journey", triggers the mysterious system so that he crosses into the book world and penetrates into the body of villain--Shen Qingqiu. Shen Qingqiu's disciple, Luo Binghe, is the main character of the novel.

- Airplane's foot fetish:

[breadlover64]

BINGQIU VS LIUSHEN/ANY OTHER SHIP WITH SQQ PART 1

BEWARE I HAVENT READ SVSSS IN A WHILE AND I MIGHT’VE MISSED SOME STUFF! Feel free to correct and give your opinions about this.

Theres gonna be two parts to this bc tumblr can’t take all my writing sooooo 😛

In the SVSSS fandom, I’ve noticed that compared to other mxtx’s novels, the mc gets shipped with half of the cast more often and is more widely accepted in the fandom compared to the tgcf and mdzs fandoms (if you ship Hualian or Wangxian with anyone, it will get you death threats, istg 😓). However, with Shen Qingqiu, while of course he gets shipped with his love interests, another really popular one is him with Liu Qingge and many other characters in the novel. I do think this also has to do with the fact that the fandom is more chill than the other two fandoms. Shen Qingqiu in general is just VERY shippable. But why? Why do some people like liushen more than bingqiu? Obviously, I know this is simply a preference, but why do people prefer it more than the canon couple? Well, I have some speculations. First, while I love Bingqiu, I can admit that their relationship is not for everyone; even for me, they’re my least favorite main couple of the three (it's just my opinion, DONT ATTACK ME🙏) because their dynamic can be seen as somewhat toxic. Luo Binghe is very obsessive and kind of yandare like in the novel, and yes, he does have character development and regrets his actions and never really wanted to hurt Shen Qingqiu. I personally don’t feel like we see as much of this development until the very end. At least for me, I feel like we should’ve spent more time with a changed Luo Binghe, and I KNOW he was influenced by Xi Mo. I still didn’t feel completely satisfied with the Luo Binghe arc. I do think we see more of his development in the extras, which is what made me like Bingqiu a lot more, but I just wish we could’ve seen this in the main story instead of optional extras because I think the extras really show Luo Binghe’s growth and his love for Shen Qingqiu in a healthier way. I am aware this boy is very mentally ill. While I’m not a writer, as a reader, I think mxtx could’ve done more for him because he can end up more dislikable for some people and just less appealing of a love interest. I personally LOVE Luo Binghe and how chaotic he is, but again, that is not for everyone, so I can definitely see why some people don’t like him as much. With Shen Qingqiu, this is a bit different. I felt that by the end of the novel he had massive progress and huge development for his character; even if he still has his flaws, you can really tell he has changed and grown throughout the story, but he’s still himself if that makes sense. I felt wayyy more satisfied with his arc than Luo Binghe's; however, I will say that Shen Qingqiu has this sort of shame. While I wouldn’t necessarily call it internalized homophobia, he does have this sort of stigma towards gay people and him being gay himself. And while it can be funny, if you really think about it, even by the end of the novel and in the extras he still has this shame of sleeping with Binghe and showing basic affection, but I won’t really criticize this much because he does improve in this a lot by the extras. By that point, it really feels more like shyness than the shame he felt at the beginning when he first discovered Luo Binghe's feelings. So I will argue that Shen Qingqiu arc is pretty well done and concluded by the end of the book; at least to me, it really did feel like he changed. Okay, so the second reason is because Bingqiu got together when they were both still ‘not at their best’. What do I mean by this? Well in tgcf Xie lian had to endure a lot of torture and experience several traumatic situations and almost released face disease and killed a bunch of people with it. He was clearly very mentally unwell! And for Hua Cheng, he also went through a lot of trauma with his mom dying when he was young and the abuse he went through from his father and the kids who made fun of him to the point where he wanted to end his life, and then later he became a ghost with his parasocial attachment to a god. We see these characters at their worst, but when they get together, they are already 800+ years old and have lived a long life and matured and learned from their experiences.

[frostfires-blog]

Módào Zǔshī Hanakotoba Analysis Part 2

◤━━━━━━━━━◥✿◤━━━━━━━━━◥

-> 4) Lotus/Water Lily

-> 4.1.) Lotus/Water Lily Flower Symbolism:

Despite having a few differentiating characteristics, lotuses (Nelumbo nucifera) and water lilies (Nymphaea) are often confused with one another. As a result, there is a lot of overlap in their symbolic meanings, to the point that they convey the same sentiments across multiple cultures. In China, lotuses are known as lián huā (蓮花) or hé huā (荷花), whereas water lilies are known as shuìlián (睡莲) and héhuā (荷花).  Lotuses are known as the "gentleman's flower" in China because they grow upwards pure and unstained from the mud. The flower is thus associated with perseverance, elegance, resilience, as well as ultimate purity of mind and heart. The lotus is revered as a sacred flower in Buddhism, representing the essence of divine beauty, wisdom, humility grace and rebirth. It is also a sign of moral integrity, emphasising the importance of maintaining inner purity and virtuous behaviour in the face of worldly temptations. The word “l蓮” (lián) also sounds like “連續” (liánxù) which means continuous. This conveys the idea of constant growth and spiritual progress thus making the lotus a symbol of the continuous pursuit of knowledge, wisdom, and enlightenment. The lotus also has profound significance in Taoism, representing serenity, balance, and the "interconnectedness of all things and the inherent harmony within the universe".  The lotus' adaptability to various environments embodies the Taoist concept of living in harmony with nature, flowing with life's rhythms, and preserving equilibrium in the face of change. Additionally, the lotus' ability to rejuvenate and blossom year after year, despite the shifting seasons, represents the continuous cycle of life, death, and rebirth. Part of the lotus flower’s Chinese name “l蓮” (lián) is homophonous with the words “聯” (lián) meaning “to bind/connect as in marriage”; “戀” (liàn) meaning to love; and “廉” (lián) meaning modesty. As a result, the lotus flower has also come to symbolise union, love and marriage in Chinese culture and is thus a prominent motif in both historical and modern works to convey love and emotion. Lotuses are commonly used in bridal bouquets as a symbol of luck and 100 years of love.  A single stem bearing two lotus flowers represents the desire for harmony and a shared heart. This is derived from the fact that the “荷” (hé) in the lotus’ other Chinese name also means “union” and is homophonous with the word “和” (hé) meaning uninterrupted or one after another. Furthermore, a lotus flower with a leaf and bud symbolises complete union. In Japan, lotuses are called ren (蓮) or hasu (はす), while water lilies are called suiren (睡蓮). In hanakotoba, lotuses symbolise a pure heart, eloquence, sacredness and departing love—while water lilies symbolise a pure heart, faith and trust. Additionally, both flowers are also associated with rebirth, transformation, enlightenment, beauty, grace, and perfection. In Western floriography, water lilies symbolize purity of the heart, virtue, innocence, achieving great things, beauty rising from humble beginnings and bringing together separate things. Pink waterlilies are commonly associated with feelings of admiration. Since its scientific name was derived from the mythical Greek nymph, water lilies also symbolise dangerous beauty and estranged love.

-> 4.2.) Lotus'/Water Lilies in MDZS:

Lotuses are the most commonly referenced flower in MDZS, and they are generally associated with the Yunmeng Jiang clan. This is due to the clan's insignia, a nine-petaled lotus, as well as the name of their residence, Lotus Pier. According to the novel, the compound is surrounded by “pink blossoms with broad jade-green leaves rose from the depths of the lake, whose waters spanned hundreds of kilometres […] giving the lovely scenery a sort of charming innocence” (MXTX, v. 3, p. 9).

The lotus’ symbolic meanings best embody the characters of Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian. > 4,2,1) Jiang Yanli: The flower's symbolic representation of virtue, modesty, innocence, beauty, faith, grace, and purity of the heart perfectly conveys Jiang Yanli's kind and caring demeanour. Jiang Yanli's relationship with Jin Zixuan is a key aspect of her character. The lotus' symbolism of love, union, marriage, and a shared heart corresponds with this. Additionally, in both the web drama and MDZS Q, Jin Zixuan grows lotus flowers as a gift for Jin Yanli. > 4,2,2) Wei Wuxian: Wei Wuxian's life can be divided into three parts: his time as the first disciple of the Jiang clan, his time as the Yiling Laozu, and his life after his resurrection as Mo Xuanyu. During his youth with the Jiang clan, he was a promising upcoming cultivator with a humble background. Despite displaying a mischievous and carefree attitude, he was intelligent, dedicated, virtuous and possessed a strong sense of justice. This ties into the lotus’ symbolism of flowing with life's rhythms, wisdom, perseverance, virtue and beauty from humble beginnings. As the Yiling Laozu, he defies convention by developing an unorthodox cultivation path that deviates from the norm. This corresponds with the lotus' symbolism of the continuous pursuit of knowledge, wisdom and achieving great things. He is determined to protect the innocent regardless of prejudicial beliefs—however, this sense of justice renders him capable of brutality at times. This is what inevitably results in him being seen as an outcast in the cultivation world. Ultimately, his power overwhelms him, causing many casualties given that “no one can walk along a single-plank bridge their entire lives and never fall” (MXTX, v. 2, p. 173). This turn of events all juxtaposed against the lotus’ symbolism of preserving stability in the face of change and achieving ultimate purity of mind and heart. After his resurrection, as a result of his experiences as both a hero and a pariah to the cultivation world, Wei Wuxian sees nuance where many do not and often expresses regret and admits his faults—“You’re not the only ones who remember what I’ve done. I remember too. You won’t forget—what makes you think I will?” (MXTX, v. 4, p. 174). This ties into the lotus’ symbolism of wisdom, constant growth and spiritual progress as well as the continuous cycle of life, death, and rebirth. Additionally, his courtesy name Wuxian (无羡) is derived from the last line of a poem by Xu Ben which translates to “to be free of envy and aspire to greater heights; not be misguided by honorary reputation and personal gain”. This ties into the lotus’ symbolism of maintaining inner purity and virtuous behaviour in the face of worldly temptations.

-> 5) Peony

-> 5.1.) Peony Symbolism:

Peonies (Paeonia) are known as mǔdān (牡丹) in China and were regarded as China’s national flower during the Tang Dynasty (618 to 907 A.D.). In accordance with this, they symbolise prosperity, honour, wealth and beauty, love and happiness. The Chinese term for peonies means "the most beautiful” while other Chinese names for peonies are "fùguìhuā" and "huawang," which translate to "king of the flowers" and "flower of riches and honour," respectively. In Japan, peonies are called botan (牡丹) and symbolize shyness, wealth and regalness in hanakotoba. The flower's profound appearance, notably its multitudes of large petals that are thin and silk-like, is where the peony’s symbolism of wealth and regalness originated. In Western floriography, peonies represent bashfulness and compassion.

-> 5.2.) Peonies in MDZS:

In the series, a white peony cultivar named “Sparks Amidst Snow” is used as the symbol of the Langling Jin Clan. It is said that “by comparing themselves to the king of flowers, they implied they were kings among immortals” (MXTX, v.1, p. 65).  This ties in with the peony flower’s symbolic meanings of prosperity, wealth, honour and regalness. Furthermore, pink peonies are often associated with the novel’s central love story between Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. During the Siege Hunt at Mount Baifeng, Wei Wuxian throws a pink peony to Lan Wangji amidst the parade. Later, while on a trip to Yunmeng, the latter once again encounters Wei Wuxian who throws him another pink peony. In this audio drama adaptation of this scene, Wei Wuxian asks a ghost woman what the meaning of peony is, and she responds that it means "wishing you would return my feelings" or to part with a heavy heart." Years later, following Wei Wuxian's death and resurrection, he finds a pressed peony flower that Lan Wangji uses as a bookmark. This peony was noted by Wei Wuxian as being “extremely well preserved, [with] the colours still vivid and the veins on its petals so delicately textured that it still looked alive” (MXTX, v. 3, p. 191). Given Lan Wangji's sentimental nature, this peony is undoubtedly one of those given to him by Wei Wuxian. The flower’s association with the pair ties into its symbolic meanings of love, compassion, and happiness.

-> 6) Willow Tree

-> 6.1.) Willow Tree Symbolism:

Willow trees are known as liǔ (柳) in China. They are regarded as a symbol of friendship, long-lasting affection, and "urging someone to stay." Willow trees are also connected with spring, therefore they can represent renewal, resilience, the cyclical cycle of existence and the revival of life after a dormant period in winter. Additionally, the willow tree's supple branches can convey an image of meekness and humility. The willow tree's interwoven branches symbolise the depth of friendship because similarly to how branches connect and support one another, genuine friendship is also based on trust, understanding, and mutual support. The willow tree is also associated with separation from loved ones, prompting feelings of sorrow and longing. Willow branches are commonly utilised in Chinese funeral rites as a symbol of grief and remembrance. Willows, known in Japan as yanagi (柳), represent obedience, independence, and the melancholy of love in hanakotoba. The willow’s symbolism of obedience is derived from how its leaves sway in the wind. In contradiction with this, its symbolic meaning of freedom also stems from how freely its leaves sway in the wind. In Western floriography, willows are associated with both freedom and sadness. Weeping willows in particular represent grief, melancholy, and mourning.

-> 6.2.) Willow Trees in MDZS:

Given its symbolic meanings, willow trees can be associated with Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian’s complicated, but strong dynamic. This is supported by Wei Wuxian specially mentioning a willow tree when remising about his youth spent in Lotus Pier with Jiang Cheng—“there was an old willow tree rooted on the bank, with a thick, sturdy trunk that slanted over the water and branches that trailed onto its surface. The boys of Lotus Pier would often walk along the trunk of this particular willow tree to sit and fish from the treetop” (MXTX, v. 3, p. 109). While the duo's bond started as one of trust, support, and mutual understanding, it has distorted into one of melancholy, mourning, and longing. This juxtaposition encompasses all of the willow's connotations across various cultures. The willow’s association with spring, renewal, resilience and revival could be indicative that Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian’s bond could be repaired if given time, considering that they never properly reconciled because of Jiang Cheng’s reluctance—“But just as the Wei Wuxian of the past who’d extracted his golden core for Jiang Cheng had been unable to tell him the truth, the Jiang Cheng of the present could no longer bring himself to speak up” (MXTX, v. 5, p. 127).

◣━━━━━━━━━◢✿◣━━━━━━━━━◢

╰┈➤ Part 1

╰┈➤ TGCF Hanakotoba Post Part 1

╰┈➤ Other Hanakotoba Posts

[Please check out part 1 as well! If anyone has any ideas on what anime/anime theme song I should cover next in this series please lmk✿ Also, if you liked this post, check out my other hanakotoba analysis posts... Lastly, if I've gotten any of the kanji, romaji, hanzi or pinyin incorrect, feel free to correct me]

[irrealisms]

svsss and sexual violence pt. 2: gender and homophobia

standard disclaimer at the beginning: i am not saying that this is the Only thing svsss is about, or that other readings are invalid; i am not intending to character-bash most of the characters here (while i will freely admit to thinking e.g. old palace master or qiu jianluo are pretty one-dimensionally shitty, lots--probably most--of the characters in this series who i mention as perpetrating SA are characters who do have depths & who i in fact like a lot! despite this meta, or perhaps because of it, my second-favorite character is luo binghe, and i am in fact a bingqiu shipper!); and, obviously, huge fucking CW for sexual abuse and adjacent topics. this one's also got a CW for, well, homophobia and sexism. this section is approximately 1k.

(also: shoutout to @rooses40stepskincareroutine for motivating me to actually write all this out!)

TABLE OF CONTENTS pt 1: shen yuan's realization of himself as a target pt 2: gender and homophobia (you are here) pt 3: non-bingqiu sexual violence pt 4: shen qingqiu's body pt 5: we live in a society

We talked in the previous post about how Shen Yuan begins the story oblivious to himself as a potential target for sexual violence, and that his realization that he is in danger of this is the same as his realization that he is a target of male sexual desire. One of the quotes I think about a lot here is a much later quote:

Yeah right! Like he’d dare share a room with Luo Binghe. A straight man and a gay one staying in the same room? That was just asking for death. Yes, Shen Qingqiu insisted he was still straight! His willingness to read a stallion novel like Proud Immortal Demon Way was rock-solid proof!

And--on the one hand, this is funny. I'm not going to say this isn't funny, because it is; we as the reader know that Shen Qingqiu is obviously not straight and that reading stallion novels does not actually make you straight. In light of this, his insistence that he is straight is funny!

But. There's also two other things going on here:

We all know the trope of the predatory gay man, right? Gay men (and queer people in general, though the specifics of this vary by sexuality/gender) are seen as inherently sexually predatory; you see this in the idea of gay men "converting" straight men and boys through rape/molestation, you see this in AIDS-era fears of HIV+ men who deliberately tried to spread HIV (often through rape) as much as possible, you see this in modern-day grooming panics. one of the most common ways homophobia manifests is this sort of idea--as a teenager, one of my friend's parents stopped letting me have sleepovers once they learned I was a lesbian, because they didn't want me sleeping in the same room as their daughter; you see stories of people kicking gay people out of changing rooms, of refusing to touch them/let them touch others, and generally isolating them from platonic intimacy with the same gender due to the specter of gay people being sexually predatory. Shen Qingqiu's narration very deliberately calls this to mind: A straight man and a gay one staying in the same room? That was just asking for death. there's interesting things to say here about how mxtx interacts with this trope in her other two novels--lwj and hc are both definitely also engaging with this trope, though very differently--but i'll keep this post focused on scum villain.

however. as established in part one: luo binghe has in fact sexually assaulted and been sexually predatory towards shen qingqiu. between the kiss in the dream and here, we get two major moments: the first, where luo binghe admits he knew it was the real shen qingqiu and not a dream construct when he sexually assaulted SQQ in the dream, and the second, where luo binghe holds shen qingqiu down, tears off his clothes, and explicitly threatens to rape him. which...yes, luo binghe clarifies shortly after (when sqq starts dying) that he wasn't actually going to rape sqq, he just wanted to scare him. but, uh, holding someone down and then--while they try to fight--kissing them, tearing off their clothes, and telling them that you're going to rape them? that is still very much SA. so sqq's fears of LBH are ... well, they're justified, and they're coming from a place of trauma.

I... have some genuinely fairly mixed feelings about how MXTX handles this combination in SVSSS? right now i'm not actually doing very critical analysis of the text tbh, so i won't go into it, but i invite you to think about it for yourself about it!

that said, i have more things to say on other topics. specifically: SY thinks of himself as a straight man, and thus safe. but he's been put in a very feminized position by the narrative. he's constantly on the other end of LBH's wife plots, to the point where, in the extras, the culmination of their marriage involves LBH calling him "wife". the genre change is vital to understanding this--he's no longer a man in the real world, or even a man in a stallion novel; he's a shou in a danmei. (and while there's a lot of discourse on the feminization of bottoms in M/M, esp written by women, i want to emphasize that this isn't exclusive to chinese-language M/M--go read some omegaverse on ao3 to see some men being feminized by the narrative in much more extreme ways, without any of the interesting commentary on genre!) now, this is a role that is also very distinct from being a woman--especially on the doylist level, the [shou/uke/bottom] in M/M is generally written better and is more central to the narrative with fewer sexist tropes than the actual women in the story, and svsss is no exception to this--but it's still very distinctly feminized. something I think about in this regard is how his internet handle, "Peerless Cucumber", is misheard in SVSSS as "Peerless Chrysanthemum"--his name has been changed, by the setting, from something representing [penis/topping] to [anus/bottoming]. It's a representation of traditionally male bottoming, it represents the anus and not the vagina, but it's still a very literal emasculation of Shen Yuan by the setting of SVSSS! another sample quote:

In conclusion: So the female lead’s role was going to Shen Qingqiu again, huh?

this is also particularly interesting to me because of the ways SQQ is sexist, just like the previous quote is interesting because of how SQQ is homophobic. another quote, from earlier in the book:

He was a man, yet he had been forced to meekly tell another man that he would “submit to him,” in front of so many people. And above all, the other man was his former disciple, which made it even more frustrating and shameful.

again, we see his sexism and anxieties around masculinity being tied up in his anxieties around sexual abuse. he sees putting himself in a position where he's at risk for sexual abuse (because he is doing that, he has just learned that LBH knew he was real when sexually assaulting him in the dream, and he is now agreeing to submit & go home with him) as shameful. why? because he's a man. the implications that it's shameful for men to be sexually submissive or get sexually abused (which are conflated here and throughout the novel by SY, although other characters draw a distinction! but SY's views on ~kink, both D/s and S&M, while fascinating and very relevant to the bingqiu relationship and his relationship w queerness, would be thoroughly a tangent here--ask me if you want another post on the subject lol), because men should be "stronger" than that, but it would not be shameful for a woman, because women are supposed to submit to (and be sexually abused by) men, is left as an exercise for the reader. so ... he's being wildly sexist! but even here you can see he's being sexist because he's being emasculated. because he's being pushed into the "female" role, instead of the "male" one, and when it comes to sexual violence & the fear thereof, that's a dangerous place to be. once again, being a man doesn't protect him: a lesson he will keep learning.

there's more to say about gender & sexual violence in SVSSS about other characters, but that mostly gets addressed in the next post, except for my thoughts on gender that aren't about sexual abuse (i have a LOT of these--mostly about bing-ge vs bing-mei, but also about shen yuan's view of femininity as inherently degrading and painful, which the text does not agree with even as it does agree that the societal baggage of femininity often comes with sexual violence; again, ask me if you want another post about that, it would not be part of this meta series but i DO have things to say on it). thanks for reading this one!

[baiwu-jinji]

Hello! I’ve read your thoughts on TGCF and I really enjoy them.

I also like the cultural references and knowledge you bring to the table. It’s something that gets lost in English translation and learning about it just adds another layer to enjoy about TGCF.

Recently I saw some asks/answers compare Hualian to another couple. I haven’t read the other story 😅 but I have heard similar opinions of Hualian being very idealized, too perfect, unrealistic or all three.

I’ve been very curious about this part as I also have a vague memory of someone noting that even the author says Hualian is like a fairytale.

I was surprised about this because their softness, respect and unconditional love for each other is something I really love about them.🌸🌸🌸

Could you share more of your perspective on this?

Is it the waiting 800 years part? The unconditional acceptance and devotion on Hua Cheng’s part(and Xie Lian’s side too)? The lack of arguments between them?

For my part , obviously 800 years is a fantastical amount of time to remain in love and devoted to someone. Especially considering how little time Hua Cheng spent with Xie Lian in the beginning. I am totally willing to suspend my belief for these two points and chalk it up to Hua Cheng’s personality. I also think Hua Cheng’s love for Xie Lian grew and matured as he did.

It’s really interesting too that those very positive traits - unconditional devotion, faith and love (not obedience because honestly Hua cheng quiet frequently disobeys😅) while more obviously written in a positive light can be explored in fanfiction from the other end. And I don’t mean obsession or stalking, but more like loving someone to the point of your own detriment.

And Hualian, though certainly they didn’t really argue in the book, they did have disagreements. (And I think in the revised novel, of at least the translated part I read, they do get a more serious argument)

To me, their easy acceptance and the unconditional love aspect can be chalked up to their personality, life experiences and the fact they both have lived centuries long.

Anyhow, I know I rambled on a bit. 😅😅😅

But I am really curious on your feedback about this or a link if you answered this more in detail with a similar ask.

Thank you! 😊

Hi! :) Thank you for your kind words and sorry about the really late reply ><  MXTX once wrote about a dream she had where a voice told her that TGCF is like a “a little red clay stove” (I translated MXTX’s dream here). The literary reference of “a little red clay stove” symbolises the warmth and comfort of domestic life and the joy of friendship and companionship, which I think is what MXTX wants Hualian’s relationship to stand for - Hualian is meant to be warm, tender, homely and cosy, with as little friction as possible in the relationship. It is a very idealised relationship (how can it not be with HC’s unfading love for and faith in XL and XL’s instinctual and almost instant trust in HC), and that’s why people love Hualian, because we long to be loved with such unconditional acceptance and unwavering devotion ourselves, and we want to find someone we could love with unconditional acceptance and unwavering devotion, whether such love is possible in real life or not. Hualian’s success and popularity is clearly not due to it being a gritty and brutally honest interrogation of the complexities of romantic relationships in realistic contexts, but because it is the sort of ideal relationship of pure bliss people dream of having. Therefore I can’t say Hualian’s idealisation of romantic relationships is one of its literary flaws because it’s never aiming to be otherwise, and its idealistic nature is one of its main selling points.

This is a digression but what I find interesting about Hualian is this sort of paradox in HC being both a lover and a worshipper - to worship a god is to worship his divine infallibility, but to love a human is to love his human fallibility (but then Borges said that “to fall in love is to create a religion that has a fallible god”, so that resolves the paradox?). And it makes me think about what HC means when he says to XL “I’m forever your most devoted believer.” What is it that HC eternally believes in as XL's believer? It’s not XL’s infallibility, or perfection, or omnipotence, or incorruptibility, or inexhuastable goodness that HC believes in, because XL is neither of those things, so what is it that HC believes in? Maybe what HC forever believes in is the fact that he will love XL forever - maybe that’s what HC is a believer of…

I hope this answer makes sense, and in short I meant to say that I can’t deny Hualian is idealised, but that’s what makes them appealing.

[kyusoob]

*whispers* i am literally luo binghe. i was ranting to a friend on ponytown about bingqiu for like. idk how long but i take it to tumblr now.

i often wonder what luo binghe felt as he was pushed into the endless abyss and what he felt after. the anxiety the fear the confusion as shen qingqiu pointed his sword at him. then pushed him down. how could he? does he not remember his own words? the very words he told luo binghe that lead to him learning demonic cultivation? he hates demons? he hates luo binghe.

falling for god knows how long. what was he feeling? and thinking? was there a disgusting pit in his stomach that made its way through his veins? what about confusion? why am i falling? why did he push me? whats going to happen to me? when am i going to land? where am i? shizun?

was he in a state of shock, body cold to the touch. eyes wide open and his whole body trembling.

often when i experience such a shocking unexpected situation and go through a million emotions, i feel those emotions so strongly. whether its sadness or anger or disgust. i feel it so strongly i get sick to my stomach. what follows after is usually a period of complete emptiness. i don't feel any emotions and when i think about everything that happened, i dont recall the emotions i felt during it. i get so impulsive and become a danger to myself an others.

i think a lot about a luo binghe who trudges the demon realm in survival mode. he doesnt feel betrayal or fear or anything of the sorts. he's in a state of absolute nothingness. of course he gets out of this mental state in due time but like. ya.

and i think a lot about how this affects his view on shen qingqiu. we already know how often he splits on him. that constant push and pull we see through the novel is why bingqiu and binghe is often criticized and labelled and just plain toxic. and i agree parts of bingqiu are pretty toxic and unhealthy, but that doesn't mean the whole relationship is doomed.

the novel literally shows us binghe's declining mental state and shen yuan himself realizes it and comments on it. i never understand the hate bingqiu got and why it was called one sided. svsss is literally a build up to their relationship. "the story between me and you has just begun" like hello?

i constantly make the "MXTX! Write svsss in lbh's pov and my life is yours" joke but i think i genuinely wouldnt want to read that. whenever i engage with media, i often get real engrossed with the content and i fully feel and understand what the characters are going through. because of how much i related to luo binghe, what we wre shown was so much more intense. lbh's pov would be absolutely devastating and i truly think that it would send me in a depressive spiral.. i love u luo binghe i wish u total happiness with shen qingqiu.

if anyone makes it to the end hi sorry its not very well written. im not very good with words but i feel A LOT.

[mxtxfanatic]

In mdzs, cultivators usually live long right? So would wangxian also live long like 100 years+ or so without aging much? Since wen Rohan was quite an old man and still looked really young.

Hm, good question! I think wangxian would definitely live an advanced lifespan from how advanced their golden cores are and how disciplined their training is. On top of Wen Ruohan already being considered old by the time the adult cast come up, mxtx has also said that cultivators in mdzs tend to live longer and experience life events later, hence why a lot of the adults haven’t even gotten married well into their 30s. However, we are never told how old the average cultivator lives to, nor is this helped by Wen Ruohan seeming to singlehandedly be killing off the older generations as soon as their heirs are old enough to get drivers licenses, like some sort of orphan-maker sixth sense 😭 Cultivators in mdzs don’t seem to cultivate to ascension or immortality like in other cultivator novels, and the only named “immortal” is Baoshan Sanren (which could just be a title, since in other cultivator novels, the title of “immortal” is given when you reach a certain level of cultivation and not necessarily because you have achieved eternal life and youth).

But all this aside, in short: I definitely think wangxian will be living into their 100s—barring any more bullshit wars or corruption—and I’d dare to wager they would canonically live even longer, all the while maintaining their youthful appearances.

[bloopitynoot]

Reading SVSSS: Chapter 14

For those who don't know, I am reading SVSSS for the first time and sharing my thoughts!

If you have not read it, there will be spoilers! Consider this a warning.

Also- if you want to follow along, I am aiming to post updates daily. You can find all the posts in the tag bloopitynoot reads SVSSS. You can also check out the intro post for context on my read.

New book new book! Can you believe I am on book three already? Holy heck, time has flown by.

I thought I would switch up my tea process today with a new cup but also I wanted to show off my collection XD We bought some new and some refill teas from the ren faire yesterday (one of our favourite localish tea blenders) and what a collection my partner and I have amassed. I didn't realize how huge it was until I snapped the pic- it feels very at home apothecary LOL

I went with a lady grey latte and instead of my heart mug I was feeling the spooky vibes and and using my mug by Jaxx b. I have a few other handmade mugs I might start featuring because they are fun as heck!

I've rambled enough about my tea and mug let's get into this chapter!

okay right away bless MXTX for doing such a good job immediately place setting. We are in the demon realms! p9

oof. the energy between Luo BInghe and Shen Qingqiu is so uncomfortable right now. Neither of them saying anything. I am intrigued to see how they sort through this. I know they are end game but like- this is so awkward. p9

oh gosh. Luo Binghe 10000% modeled the room he is basically locking SQQ in after the Bamboo House. Yes SQQ, there most definitely is meaning in it being familiar. p10

So. LOL SQQ's rationale. Instead of "looking too much like a respectable woman kidnapped by a ruffian" p. 10 is to essentially play gay chicken?

RIP well, luo binghe did find out about the blood. so sexually charged though in the way he decided to find out. p11

How is Luo Binghe even surprised that after SQQ being treated this way that he requests that Luo Binghe never see him/see him as little as possible? What did he even expect would happen here?? p12 There is a lot of trust broken between these two.

oh? System feature upgrade? p13

LOL "luxury edition" p14 There must be fanfics about SQQ kept trophy husband

omg what kind of novels was SQQ's sister reading XD those are some wild fantasies. pp14-15

SQQ: "I will not have stockholm syndrome" okay buddy, we will see what happens with your 'luxury edition' p15

oh luo binghe, that sweet baby boy is having them plant bamboo and is cooking SQQ's meals.p16 this would be even cuter if they talked about things instead of having such a weird dynamic.

Jesus Christ. Shang Qinghua enters again. How does this man stealth so well when he is kind of an idiot? I feel like terrible decisions and bad luck follow him everywhere- but he is just slippery enough to get away. p17

LOL SQQ: Your protagonist turned gay. Shang Qinghua: eh, it's fine as long as I'm not the love interest. sucks to be you. p18

okay but I want to know how deep the info of this world goes. Where does it pool the information to generate everything- just published content OR is it everything and anything Airplane thought about or created (ie the lost computer files about Luo Binghe's dad) p19

uuuugh not another interruption- I feel for you SQQ, I too want to know what he was going to say about your tragic backstory in the original edit. p22

Airplane really said 'no homo' "That man of yours is here. Let's do it later- wait, I mean let's chat later" p22

okay okay okay! The boys are talking for real about their mutual deception of one another. Is this the path to them figuring their shit out?? Maybe they will talk about their trust issues. p23

Okay I am with Luo Binghe on this- it did feel as though SQQ completely did a 180 on fundamental life beliefs RE: no one is inherently evil because of their race. p23. So I understand Luo Binghe here- I am glad they are talking.

OMG pp24-25

well. that escalated quickly LOL pp24-25

Luo Binghe probably "hit me harder daddy shizun" p26 +500 satisfaction points.

is Luo binghe going to assault him 😭😭😭😭 this is not it. that was not cool that entire part was so gross "If shizun see's me as no better than a beast either way, I might as well live up to expectations" p27

thank fuck all of that was interrupted, but also now i'm deeply concerned for SQQ!!!! is it the other demon blood? Is it past (young SQQ) trauma?? What's happening?? (no one actually answer this I 1000% know it will be resolved in due time, but I am having a panic about the guy).

Well that's not good at all

this was one rollercoaster of an opening act omg. Not a good time for everyone involved at the end there. I am VERY glad SQQ was not assaulted but I am SRESSED now for other reasons.