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cienie-isengardu · 2 months

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I don't really agree with your takes on Kuai Liang. You hold him to a standard far higher than his circumstances allow him. You say he should have confronted the Lin Kuei but the moment he saw them, they immediately tried to kill him and Tomas without any chance. You assume Liu Kang helped him when an intro suggests Liu has left him on his own. You say he should have returned and taken over Lin Kuei, people who rejected him and never gave him a chance but take issue when he tries to get stronger to face them. You conveniently leave out the part Kuai wants others to not touch Bi-Han and Lin Kuei and that's why he's in Outworld to stop Bi-Han according to intros.

I think you're more than a little biased against MK1 Kuai. It's getting obvious.

That’s perfectly fine if you do not agree with my take on Kuai Liang. I’m not here to convince you or anyone to my ideas, simply explaining my reasoning since you asked 🙂

“You say he should have confronted Lin Kuei but the moment he saw them, they immediately tried to kill him and Tomas without any chance.”

I think you mistake two separate events. I said he should confront Lin Kuei when he learned the truth about Bi-Han not aiding their father in need, right away when he defeated and captured his brother. Tomas thought he would do so, to take the title of Grandmaster and prevent further damage. But Kuai Liang outright rejected this idea, thinking Cyrax and Sektor would still stick to Bi-Han despite the grave accusation. In that scene Kuai Liang chose to cut his ties with Grandmaster, as was seen when he removed his emblemant of Lin Kuei, saying "You are my grandmaster no longer" . Which I guess could count as him leaving the clan.

From story mode we know only that they took Bi-Han with themselves and a few chapters later, Tomas noted that Lin Kuei refused to aid Liu Kang. But as far as dialogue goes, neither Scorpion nor Smoke said they were attacked by Lin Kuei or in any other way persecuted and I don’t think there is any source claiming that for this specific point in time. Otherwise Kuai Liang and Tomas would either mention they needed to run away from their people to join Liu Kang for the battle or would not be there at all, if the clan wished them dead or hurt.

The attack you mentioned comes AFTER Titan Shang Tsung was defeated and again, comes from Scorpion’s ending and not story mode itself. Which is a second, separate event from the one I referred to in my previous post. In my opinion Kuai Liang should take control over the clan right away Bi-Han was compromised, because it was his duty as the second-in-line. And most likely he was trained for that possibility, as being Lin Kuei was a hazardous job and Grandmaster Sub-Zero was personally involved with doing Fire Lord’s bidding. So no, I don’t think this is holding Kuai Liang to a higher standard, as he is not a mere warrior forced to step in and solve the critical situation all by himself but a man raised as part of the ruling family and with a birthright to do so. Expecting Scorpion to do his duty hardly feels like demanding too much. But it is perfectly fine if anyone does not agree on this one with me.

So yes, I say he should have confronted Lin Kuei and no, Tomas and Kuai Liang were not immediately attacked between chapters. Lin Kuei refused to aid Liu Kang and at this certain point in the story, it is all they did as far as source materials goes to my knowledge.

“You assume Liu Kang helped him when an intro suggests Liu has left him on his own. “

Yes, I assume so, as for me characters BIO and story mode are a more truthful source than intro dialogues that don’t give us the full context of the interaction, or characters’ endings that aren’t always 100% compatible with the next game (and I do acknowledge that my opinion about Scorpion's ending may change once the new story will be released). Sadly, I have no idea what intro dialogue you're referring to. It would be helpful if you could paraphrase it for me. I checked out MK Warehouse’s page but did not see anything fitting? Or did you actually mean Scorpion’s ending?

“You say he should have returned and taken over Lin Kuei, people who rejected him and never gave him a chance but take issue when he tries to get stronger to face them.

Yes, as I said before he should do so right away when Bi-Han allied with Shang Tsung but was defeated in one on one match. Sure, the sources strongly imply for us that no Lin Kuei beside Tomas supported Kuai Liang which I admit is pretty surprising. I imagine there were still plenty of people who loyally served his father and to think all of them rejected Scorpion in Sub-Zero’s favor says a lot about the political mood within the clan. Me wishing for Kuai Liang to confront Lin Kuei right away after the failed mission is not saying he would succeed but he definitely could at least try. Instead all the story mode said on the matter is that he doesn’t think Lin Kuei will make him the next Grandmaster due to Cyrax and Sektor, which again raises a question why his socio-political status would be so low between his folks if BIO alone introduced Scorpion as a REVERED Lin Kuei Warrior.

(definition presented at Cambridge Dictionary)

If you meant “return and take over Lin Kuei” in regard to leaks, then again, I do stand by my previous statement. He should take an active part in bringing back Lin Kuei on the righteous path, reclaiming his home and position, if he truly was so dedicated to his duty and father’s teaching. Otherwise leaving Lin Kuei on their own terms may lead to another conflict and in result put Earthrealm at risk. I do not say doing so would be pleasant or easy for Kuai Liang, but what else could be a better way to honor his father and the tradition he revered so much than personally restoring father’s legacy? A legacy for which Scorpion rejected his own brother and future offered by Sub-Zero? Though again, feel free to disagree, as this is just my personal opinion.

I take no issue with Kuai LIang getting stronger and preparing for the war. I would be quite disappointed if he didn’t do so, as he is warrior first and foremost. Last time I only pointed out that MK1 Kuai Liang has better means to face Lin Kuei than his previous incarnations even had. Which is why I rejected your statement Scorpion and Tomas had not enough time or resources to do anything. If we go with intro dialogues, it seems they used the given opportunity very well, as in the relatively short time Shirai Ruy rose in such power they felt ready to face Lin Kuei on their own terms. Or more precisely: hunt down Bi-Han.

Scorpion: Bi-Han's trail has led me to Sun Do. Li Mei: I'll abide no vigilante justice, Kuai Liang.

Raiden: How goes the hunt for Bi-Han? Smoke: I've never chased a cagier quarry.

You conveniently leave out the part Kuai wants others to not touch Bi-Han and Lin Kuei and that's why he's in Outworld to stop Bi-Han according to intros.

Conveniently leaving? Nah, the only reason I did not go into great details about all intro dialogues is simply the fact that those intros do not contradict in any way my statement. Both brothers are fully ready and willing to hurt each other to fulfill their goals and show little regret over this (with only Tomas actually preferring the reconciliation). Kuai Liang rejecting Kitana or Raiden’s help or Mileena's demands as he wishes to deal with Bi-Han by himself is not an example of Scorpion regretting the fratricidal struggle. Same with Bi-Han rejecting Havik’s offer

Havik: Aid me, and I'll destroy the Shirai Ryu. Sub-Zero: That is *my* privilege, Havik.

Funny though how you conveniently left that Bi-Han too rejected help from his allies in regard Kuai Liang at least once or that he actually is willing to make peace with Liu Kang (what most likely would stop the war between brothers)

Sub-Zero: You want peace? Let us be. Liu Kang: The Lin Kuei's sins aren't easily forgiven.

or that he is willing accept Tomas back if he submit

Smoke: Are we to be enemies for life? Sub-Zero: Unless you submit, Tomas.

Which is not much, but frankly, at this moment it is more than Kuai Liang’s intros offer in regard to calming the clans war. Understandable, as Scorpion has right to be bitter and angry but even Liu Kang is concerned about his vengeance:

Liu Kang: You allow vengeance to consume you. Scorpion: I should not punish Bi-Han for his crimes?

But like I said, showing a bit of good will here and there or brothers seeing their conflict as personal matters that should be resolved between them does not contradict my statement that both Bi-Han and Kuai Liang are willing to face the other in fight and if needed, even hurt each other’s friends and family. So in all fairness, I’m not sure what you are accusing me here?

I think you're more than a little biased against MK1 Kuai. It's getting obvious.

The thing I’m definitely biased towards is the NRS forcefully bringing back the Shirai Ryu vs Lin Kuei conflict that was solved in MKX almost decade ago. If you think this is a personal bias toward Kuai Liang then sure, why not 🙂

#mortal kombat #scorpion #kuai liang #bi han #sub zero #lin kuei #my replies #my best analogue to mk1 kuai liang is zuko from ATLA #should he be burdened with the responsibility to reform a country he helped to bring down? we would not wish that on real person #but as fictional character it fits his character arc & themes like honor and duty/dedication to his people #so would be anyone okay if zuko for example picked up ty lee or li mei #or some random dude to lead fire nation at the end of the story? just because Fire Nation may not like him and he doesn't feel like dealing #with his prince responsibilities when he has great friends and could go on some nice adventures instead of risking his life while reforming #country and its people who rejected him in the first place?#dunno about you all but that would not sit well with me at the end of the story #(unless uncle iroh actually decided to take the responsibility on himself and not throw it on traumatized 16/17 years old)#just to be clear: I have never claimed to be okay with how new timeline (NRS) treats Kuai Liang :)

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