#mention of anti shipping

[ceoandslutler]

have you heard kuro dubbed in any language other than english? or in any other asian language other than korean or chinese? well i found a persian one and it's so fucking bad that it's hilarious.

(also stay tuned to find out why the persian dub of kuroshitsuji being so bad has directly to do with anti-shipping sentiment and puritanism)

i would like to politely invite anyone who's ethnically from/lives in/speaks the language of a country with an ultraconservative government to contribute to this post if they know a dub of kuro (fandub or licenced by a company) in their language to contribute to this post (agree or disagree that policing media causes a drop in its quality and accessibility in other countries) but let's keep it civil. if you are not from a country like this but have something to say, feel free to add anything on, the conversation is open to all :)

so i just heard the homemade persian dub of kuro's first ep made by some young people who sound like they're in uni (probs 18-23 yr olds), tears have been flowing from my eyes for the past 20 mins

(link under the cut)

to save time, go watch the bits i linked below or just laugh at the whole thing (full link) but don't blame these kids for being awful at this or just skip to the end of the post. as i said, there is a reason this dub is so bad and no official dub exists and it has to do with... anti subculture?!?*

but first, the funny stuff

ciel's voice is awful but just listen to the goofy dub laugh seb's va did at the start I'M FUCKING SOBBING (00:15-00:35), and also not ciel's va MOANING after the op song (2:35) ??? i REPEAT the woman who VA'd ciel was fucking MOANING, the YAWN was the worst part, dub team shotacons???

also SHEEL FANTOMHAYO?? THE KID'S NAME WAS DUBBED AS SHEEL FANTOMHAYO. (refer to 6:30 in the video linked)

now this isn't because we lack a 's' in our language (my alias is literally a persian name meaning shadow aka ✦sayé✦), we've just transliterated it as shiyel, but SHEEL???

the other guy calls him fantomhayo too (8:25) and the fantomhayo condition strikes again with sebastian's va talking about the fantomhayo hospitality at 12:40 ish in the video.

this is particularly bizarre because we do have a V in persian, please guys, use it!

please note: i have nothing but good things to say about finny's va... the way the va says "sebaastiyaan!" (12:43) is so cute <3

at 13:00, we get this golden crumb "meyrin... oh meyrin" from this college aged dude doing sebastian (who is SO lost) then he proceeded to say in persian "i beg you, ON MY LIFE, just pour the fucking wine in the glass and walk away" save me from the bad dub, ono daisuke, save me...

the furnace scene is just gold (18:50 onward is comical, the scream at the end... priceless), these people deserve an award, im tempted to do subs on this whole video because the translation is so wrong yet absolutely too hilarious to leave untranslated. also, i like how you can hear other people talking in the background constantly, they didn't even bother finding a quiet room 😭😭

finally i translated some of the best comments under the vid (everyone fuckin hated it 😭)

..tldr: irani/persian speaking netizens are brutal. but also, it shows that persian speakers are used to quality dubbing, otherwise this wouldn't be so offensive. if we were used to badly done dubs, the comments wouldn't look like this. many famous kdramas and jdramas and indian/turkish films have been dubbed. animated movies e.g. disney films and most commonly 70-80s anime have huge followings in iran and were dubbed extraordinarily well. in fact, in iran, many of our own films are dubbed especially if the original footage did not capture the audio well enough/the director was unhappy with the actor's delivery and it's usually hard to tell if this has happened because it's done very well. shockingly, dub is more popular than sub. so why does kuro not have an official dub? why is the fandub so bad???

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING

*IMPORTANT: an anime like this is not allowed to be legally dubbed by studios in iran because iran is under an islamic theocracy (the islamic republic) and all media that promotes devil worshipping and blasphemy is banned, homosexuality is too (anyone can tell kuro has homoerotic undertones, the homophobic heads of media would never let this queer gothic romance through). oh and trans people are "allowed" on TV but only if they're not vulgar/explicit (not even then, half the time) & grelle would not make it into the anime AT ALL. even if we ignore all the devil worshipping and queerness, sex is banned too (as well as lewd appearances of women), so season 1/2 & boc would never make it. oh and alcohol, bom would never make it. oh and also, women's empowerment is banned too so boa would never make it. when will it end? will someday everything be banned? sure looks like it. but isn't this what anti shippers want? i mean kuro IS problematic media, it never condemns people for having sex or partaking in drinks, not even murder is condemned.

moving on, the subtitled version of the episodes are very well done for what they are but it's still not good, you won't understand what's going on properly. meanings are lost. a dub is much more accessible to those who can't read subs and generally a necessary option. people NEED dubs. don't get me wrong, the iranian fansub team are dedicated however subs are much easier for fans to do than dubbing. as you heard, kuro's persian fandub was frankly terrible. these kids didn't even know how to pronounce ciel's name and it's NOT because of the language barrier, my theory is that because the internet access is so limited, they had to figure out how to pronounce ciel's name purely from the japanese original or another lang dub and had no access to the eng dub. as you can see, they are not able to follow the mouth movements either (don't have editing software); i assume the internet restrictions targeted streaming platforms w the dub on it (because the government wants to CONTROL what media people consume) so they had to figure everything out from japanese or another language, (they probably used another fandub to translate since the ed seems to credit the eng vas while they can never be heard in the bg) which is not easy. unfortunately english is taught in schools around the world not japanese so the dubbers' translation was quite honestly terrible- after all, they had no official script to base their translation off. BUT if a professional dubbing studio (e.g. iran's glory entertainment) got their hands on kuro, it'd probably be dubbed very well. if mehrdad raissi, CEO of glory, was on for seb's role, it would be glorious (pun intended). if he did flynn rider well, he can do sebs well too. but that studio often has their shows played on state televisions and the last thing they want is to get blacklisted and arrested for dubbing the gay demon butler anime. please do not take this fandub as representing all persian-language dubs. and remember, kuro itself is banned for being problematic media in counties like iran... no sebaciel needed (although anyone can definitely see the gay undertones to the story from a cover alone).

if you want to ban people from shipping things or making fan works that are problematic... soon you'll have to get rid of problematic media in general. and already, antis sound like the media people in charge under a dictatorship. "violence is okay, murder is okay but s-sex?!? women in scandalous clothing!!! oh good heavens..!" this is the kind of mindset which leads people down the rabbit hole of "this is problematic!! let's ban it!!!" until there's nothing left, a slippery slope. imagine this was the english dub of kuro. imagine it was banned in western countries and a team of young'uns had to gang up and make their own dub using only the japanese raws. imagine problematic media like kuro wasn't picked up the west because it's "shota" and that's bad. we'd be stuck looking at the same sanitised stuff and if we wanted to watch kuro, our options would be trash dubs (no offense) like this one. pretty scary to think this could be the state of the english dub if puritanism was as bad here as it is in countries like iran. policing media and deciding what creators should or shouldn't create will take you to the side of theocratic dictatorships and you will fall into alt right puritan lunacy, fanpoll are about as woke as a dictatorship, remember that.

don't sound like this:

NEVER sound like this.

it is clear that conditional freedom is no freedom at all. there should be zero criteria to the media we want to create, no religion or purity culture to it. just be media literate. let nobody control what you want to create or consume! (or you'll end up in a world where the media that is deemed "problematic" is maintained but only through underground circles, losing quality and accessibility day by day, until these channels are shut down too and only a sanitised husk of options for media consumption remain)

[cozmo-system]

imagine being so disconnected from reality you directly compare a sex trafficker to fan writers and artists, go rip off a toenail

[sparkling-pink-lemonade]

Saw a post of an anti saying that they are leaving AO3, as they are too uncomfortable to post their fics there now. The reason? They found out one of their long time readers was a proshipper, despite their fics having proship dni. And how "that includes silent readers too, I don't want you all looking at my content."

My brother in christ, you are posting on the fiction freedom site. The proshipping site. Dnis aren't god damn restraining orders. They are one tool in helping you display your boundaries. It's still on you to enforce your boundaries. You post something publicly, you forfeit your ability to regulate who can view your work. If you're obsessive enough, you can regulate who actually interacts with your work by stalking each person in the kudos list, comments, or bookmarks and then blocking snyone you don't like, but you do not get a say on who may silently read your posts. Not unless you private your work and only show it to specific people.

And if you don’t want proshippers to interact, get off the profic site.

[carto0ncritter]

I'm sorry but I genuinely can't understand how people can look at Stolitz and Catradora and think these ships are healthy in any way, shape or form.

Stolas r*ped Blitzø. No, consent given in a life-or-death situation doesn't count

Stolas is racist towards imps, and this didn't change even when he "fell in love" with Blitzø

Stolas doesn't appreciate or respect Moxxie and Millie in the slightest (and was disappointed that his "Prince Charming" wasn't the one to rescue him)

He looks down on Blitzø and calls him things like "impish little plaything" and "his big dicked Blitzy" and doesn't stop treating him like shit even when Blitzø says loud and clear that he hates being talked down on like this (DUH)

The only thing Stolas knows about Blitzø is that he hates books and the only thing Blitzø knows about Stolas is that he's a boring bookworm. Keep in mind, the two figured this out about each other while they were kids, 25 YEARS AGO, after Blitzø was bought so that he could be Stolas' "friend" for ONE DAY

Stolas doesn't love Blitzø for Blitzø. Stolas loves the *idea* of Blitzø. The bird man wants to live a romance that is just like the romances in his cheesy novels. He wants to ride into the sunset with his one true love. He wants grand romantic gestures. He wants his "Prince Charming". Except, Blitzø isn't the type of guy for such sappy displays of affection, he never was. Especially combined with his trauma. And as soon as that other imp guy asked him to dance, Stolas not only accepted the offer, but Blitzø was no longer on his mind. And no, I don't think being drunk is proof that Stolas didn't mean what he had told Blitzø. Drunk people find it easier to say what's really on their mind after all

Blitzø fell in love with his abuser. This makes sense, actually. The guy always pushed everyone away and never got to experience true love, and now that he has the chance to be "wanted," even if the "relationship" is toxic, he finds it hard to let it go

As for Catradora, the things I wanna say about this ship have already been said throughout the years, but it all boils down to these things:

Catra mentally, emotionally and physically abused Adora

Catra had no problem ending the whole entire universe if it meant she'd finally be better than Adora

Catra was a war criminal and a fascist

Catra was responsible for what happened to Glimmer's mom and never apologized, let alone faced consequences

Their relationship was toxic even when they were kids

They were both raised by Shadow Weaver and were the only ones in the Horde who saw her as a mother figure, thus making the ship straight up incest, with even the official source material calling them sisters (adoptive siblings ARE REAL SIBLINGS!!!)

Catra got exactly what she wanted in the end (the girl she's always been obsessed with and dependent on) and, once again, faced 0 consequences for her actions

The show (and C//A stans) fetishizes abuse. As a SA survivor, I felt physically sick during the final episode, where the abuser ends up with her victim/sister and they kiss

In short, these ships are disgusting and the lgbt community deserves better representation

[pro-sipper]

"- 'proshippers' or whatever the fuck you people are calling yourselves now -"

It's. It's still just "proshippers". It's you guys (antis) and the fence-straddlers trying to have their cake and eat it too that keep creating random new phrases to "other" and distance themselves from us. We're here, unchanging, same as ever, in our corner with our silly little stories. We aren't the ones interested in coming up with 500 new labels for people who know that fiction isn't reality.

[5typesoftrash]

if you are pro-censorship, you are not my ally. Not in feminism, not in queerness, not in anti-racism. Bad actors aren't going to just censor the things you don't like; they won't stop. Sure, they'll sweep over the explicit incest and pedophilia, but then, just like the fancop teenagers have, they will start stretching those definitions to include everything that they dislike. Calling queer people pedophiles is a textbook example of queer oppression; you don't think conservatives are gonna use that as an excuse to burn books about trans joy and wlw/mlm experiences? Because they will.

If you are pro-censorship, you are not my ally.

[daddiesdrarryy]

Regulus: Merlin, this looks amazing. It’s beautiful! How can I ever repay you for fixing our wedding, Sirius?

Sirius: Get pregnant

Regulus: What?

Sirius: Use your body to give the world more James!

James: Trust me I’m trying!

[fortheloveofpiggy]

TW this is a rant about proship and comship! Tags will have more in-depth trigger warnings

Edit: OMG PROSHIPPERS STOP MAKING THIS POST ABOUT DEFENDING IF SHIPPING CHILD X ADULT OR INCEST IS OKAY OR NOT THE POST IS ABOUT THE LABLE I DONT WANT TO ARGUE WITH YALL ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.

This is my one post where all people on all sides of the proship debate can interact. Including proshippers. If that makes you uncomfortable then don’t interact. I hate echo chambers and I want to hear all sides.

Also sorry for cross tagging just want the opinions from all sides

Actual post:

I hate the terms proship, neutral ship, and antiship. They’re all extremes and I hate them. From what I understand the meanings are

Proship: support all ships no matter what even if they’re comships

Neutral ship: doesn’t have an opinion at all

Antiship: is anti any comship which is outrageous

If y’all don’t know comship just means complex ship or they enjoy more morally grey or imperfect ships. This can include things like human X different intelligent species (like aliens, furries, monsters) which most rational people don’t think is bad. But this can also mean kid X adult, family x family, or victim X abuser

I actually don’t identify as pro, neu, or anti because I think some comships are good and healthy. I think morally grey ships are important in media when done correctly. Especially since a lot of relationships are rocky and not always healthy and it’s good to show that in media. My own ocs personally aren’t in a perfectly healthy relationship because of their own issues. But this should be done respectfully and with care. Abuse shouldn’t be romanticized but people can be romantic outside of the abuse going on just like in real life relationships

But in a pedophilic fan fiction or art or an incest fanfic or art there is no such thing as a loving part of it. The relationship in itself is abuse because a minor being with a child is abuse and family members being together is abuse. It’s not healthy for anyone involved to romanticize relationships like that and frankly can effect reality no matter how you spin it because it’s representing something as normal to kids.

Right now a lot of neutrals, antis, and probably a lot of pro shippers are agreeing but that’s where my point really starts

The term “proship” and “anti ship” are too vague. If you say you’re proship you sound like you defend media where children are harmed. I understand the meaning is being proshipping and minding your business but that’s still what you look like and frankly that’s what the term does. If you’re pro everything then that means you’re pro the harmful stuff too

And the term “antiship” suggest that you’re anti shipping in general or anti any complex ship which is also unhealthy for us all because morally grey topics need brought up. Antis also are very very commonly okay with harassment when it comes to proshippers

And neutral ship is basically just saying you don’t have a opinion at all which is harmful because you’re suggesting you’re okay with the harm done on both sides. And I understand some people who are neutral ship agree with me and don’t just not care but I feel like majority is the former not the latter (based on what I’ve seen)

Also disclaimer if you’re neutral because of mental health or because you have better things to deal with that’s valid but identifying as neutral ship does put you in it and i instead suggest staying out of it entirely

So idk maybe we should make a term for the middle. I had a few ideas maybe something like middleship or intentship (intentship meaning enjoying or allowing all ships as long as the intentions are good and are not to romanticize trauma or abuse)

Idk everyone can share their opinions but if I see another proshipper say fiction doesn’t effect reality I’m gonna scream and if I see another anti shipper call all morally grey ships bad as if they done killed their grandma I’ll go insane

[arsynnotarson]

why do antis say we're "triggering ourselves" or "reliving our trauma" because we ship the way we do..... we're not..???? its fiction. not the actual figures.

and even if we were, thats none of your business, and death threats aren't gonna help us either

literally goes to show that antis dont care about victims that cope in a way thats not aesthetic to them.

fiction isnt real. harassment is.

[venusin-aries]

I don’t want to read about Azriel’s shadows vanishing around his love interest. 

I want them to seek her out, tease her, be playful with her, engage enthusiastically with her in the bedroom, and yes, sing and dance with her. Imagine how boring it would be for such an interesting power to vanish around someone you’re supposed to be with, when SJM has already emphasized how curious and willing to interact with Gwyn that power is.  

I want Azriel AND his shadows to feel safe enough to be seen by her, completely. Gwyn saw Azriel and those shadows in action when they first met, yet she never displayed any fear towards them. 

They danced when Gwyn challenged him. They danced with her breath. They calmed when they were watching her. They sang when Azriel left her.

The mating bond is called ‘silent music’. 

These interactions are so much more positive and soooo much more fun and interesting than vanishing. 

I understand people insist Gwyn and the shadows are evil out of jealousy. It really must suck to be deprived of those interactions for your favorite ship 😔

People are so boring for arguing against the 🎶 mate magic 🎶 instead of embracing it and getting excited for whatever else Sarah decides to do with it 🥵❤️‍🔥

[petrock42clone]

I swear to God, arguments made by proshippers to justify their degeneracy will never cease to amaze me with how stupid they can get.

"But it's not real." Doesn't matter, it's still gross to portray that shit in a positive light.

"I wouldn't support this in real life." If you're not gonna support it in real life then why the hell would you support it in fiction? Just admit you're a creep and get it over with.

"I use it as a way to cope with trauma." I don't want to call those people liars, but nine times out of ten I only ever see them saying this when they get called out for it. And if it's meant for coping, then why do most pieces of proship media glorify and portray it as a good thing when it shouldn't be seen that way? Also, I don't wanna be that guy, but maybe you shouldn't post that sort of thing publicly when actual creeps/criminals could use that for gross purposes.

"Fiction doesn't affect reality." Tell that to every piece of government propaganda ever released. Also, proship content does have an effect on people, especially young kids. I was exposed to a proship undertale fan blog when I was nine, and for at least two years I thought that shit was ok.

"So you support harassment towards proshippers?" Harassment is bad no matter who it's directed towards, so no I do not support harassment towards proshippers. Though I'll be completely honest and say that I don't feel sympathetic towards proshippers either.

"You're just a puritan." Dude if I were the puritan you claim I am, I probably wouldn't be ok with writing gore/torture scenes in some of my fanfics. And before you start yapping, I make it clear in those fics that those acts are not ok and are not meant to be seen in a good light.

Proshippers/Neutrals do not interact. Try arguing with me about why this shit is ok and the most you'll get out of me is a block.

[agentrouka-blog]

I'm so tired of people pretending Jon only likes warrior women. What about his interactions with Ygritte make them think he likes her romantically because she's a warrior and she's unladylike and all that? GRRM said he saw in Ygritte some of Arya's traits, and since he loves Arya, those traits aren't off putting to him. But they aren't attractive to him either. Period. 1) He didn't have much of a choice regarding Ygritte. Would he ever have laid eyes on her if she wasn't so insistent and if his life wasn't at risk? 2) He doesn't like her violence. He felt like a dog while being with her near the other wildlings. He constantly argued with her whenever her values were made clear. He tried to comfort her as a gallant boyfriend when she cried because the wall "tried to kill her" and she punched him too hard for it. He abandoned her because she was ruthless and killed an innocent old man. 3) He doesn't find her attractive at first, when he actually compares her a lot with Arya. He thinks it's silly that the wildlings consider her a great beauty because of her red hair. Like, it looks unbrushed! Things he actually likes about her: her singing, the way his hair shines with the firelight, the way she looks at him, when they're kissing and talking nonsense. That's it. They talk for more than 2 minutes and there's nothing left. They're too different and he doesn't agree with her views on the world. But people are so insistent in denying the mere possibility of jonsa that they look at this mess of a relationship and think "oh yes, Jon walked willingly into this and he would never look at another woman if she's not like Ygritte because she's his perfect type" 😑. And even if he did like her completely and felt attracted to all those things about her, do people really think that humans are only ever attracted to one type of person through their whole lifes? Be for real now.

Nothing but true facts, anon.

Jon's type = not actually violent sexual predators.

[cozmo-system]

Reminder for pedos: CP is a crime, even drawn CP. If you make it, its a federal felony. Posess it? Another federal felony. Send it to someone else? Another federal felony. Have fun with 5-20 yrs in prison as a first time offender.

(we will go off the usa law since thats where we live)

first off, its not “cp” calling it porn implies consent which children cant do, its CSEM. second, you cannot exploit a fictional character. if the drawing is of a real life child then you have a case, not if its Deku from My Hero Academia.

and third, pedophilia doesn’t mean you’re going to abuse a child, just that you have a paraphilia and should get the proper treatment if you’re struggling

[334iwatchshit]

people on tiktok crying cuz someone ships something gay and not canon...

let me tell you about the dinluke era of 2020-22

[urproblematicfav-arsonk]

Hey, you know what else sucks about the new helluva ep.

So, Brandon's been hyping up the fact that Blitz was finally going to sing for AWHILE now. Its narratively relevant that this is a musical, where Blitz somehow never actually sings it in. It's SUPPOSED to represent the fact that he's emotionally closed off, and lacks the connection that everyone around him has.

And I get that, but there's something almost dehumanizing about the fact that Blitz finally opens up, and gets to be apart of this musical world, and it's...only for a man.

If Blitz was a woman and her entire character arc was "I had to fuck a guy I didn't want to be with to survive, and the only moment I got to be authentically myself is as a romantic interest and be in service to a Man's character arc", I think more people would see how weird it is.

It sucks that Blitz' only function in the main plot is to be a victim, savior, and sex object to Stolas. They have no romantic chemistry, no development or emotional build, nothing. Like, this is full on Manic Pixie Dream Girl and Fridging shit. I wish it was just a teeny tiny bit better, with a little more nuance. Like, Bryce Tankthrust and Bobby Worst had a better, more complicated and well executed romantic storyline then quiet literally anything in helluva.

[moistrodent]

long exhaustive rant about WHY I hate the poison scene

In quite a few posts on my blog I mentioned I didn’t like the poison scene, in this post I want to explain why I don’t like it.

My main issue is the person who the boarded the scene, raphielle, who actively ships Valentino x Angel Dust and who SEXUALLY HARASSED A MINOR. They also cosplayed as Angel Dust and uploaded photos of them and a Valentino cosplayer making out.

Along with creating this comic:

Also a quote in this comic is actually in the show. Straight from the comic, maybe it’s just an insane coincidence who fucking knows /sar.

*I have not watched the animatic Raph made, but I have heard some things about it and THIS. FUCKING THIS IS THE CONTENT WARNING. THIS IS SO DISTASTEFUL.

This person story boarded Angel Dust getting raped to a pop song, they have stated they are not an SA survivor. They ship Angel Dust and his rapist. This is grounds to be uncomfortable with the poison scene, but it doesn’t end there!

Vivziepop argued with SA survivors on if the representation of SA in Hazbin Hotel was good, LYING ABOUT RAPH BEING AN SA SURVIVOR.

An official remix of Poison was made for Angel Dust’s birthday, this remix includes voice lines of Valentino. Vivziepop then liked a Valentino x Angel Dust tweet.

Vivziepop has also shown a clear interest in Valentino/shipping him with others, and liking a bunch of VoxVal tweets.

Also the original song…

“'Cause I know you're poison You're feedin' me poison Addicted to this feelin', I can't help but swallow Up your poison I made my choice and Every night I'm livin' like there's no tomorrow”

What the fuck is this. During these lines Angel Dust is dancing with Valentino, looking happy. I’ve seen people thinking that these scenes actually showed Valentino and Angel Dust’s honeymoon phase, but CONTEXT! CONTEXT I SAY, CONTEXT! PLEASE READ THE REST OF THE POST CLOSELY!

“Oh but Rowan (hi if anyone is looking at this post, my name is Rowan) you’re just media illiterate and think any representation is fetishised!” Dead wrong actually. I enjoy seeing my trauma represented, it’s a good thing. Once again, CONTEXT.

The Living Tombstone wrote a song in which Angel Dust gets graphically raped, storyboarded by someone with a rape fetish. The MV shows Angel Dust in these eye candy outfits and pretty colour palettes.

~ sincerely, a very annoyed CSA survivor who likes having good representation.