#ship neutral

[dearestdrearilygirl]

"ugh proshippers and antishippers are both sooo immature like shipping discourse is sooo stupid like i'm neitherrrr like why would you even want to engage with that"

I've seen antishippers unironically say and agree with eachother on the following opinions: being a proshipper means people should be allowed to bully you. proshippers make them believe in eugenics. proshippers all belong in jail. being a proshipper means people can send you death and rape threats because "you deserve it". being a proshipper should be basis for taking away someone's human rights or at least put them on a watchlist.

I'm not a proshipper because i care too much about fictional ships, I'm a proshipper because antishippers sent my friends threats for liking certain ships. I'm a proshipper because i believe i shouldn't have my human rights taken away or be bullied or in jail just for liking a fucking ship. If you believe ship discourse is stupid and immature, then you probably believe people shouldn't be thrown in jail for it.

[fortheloveofpiggy]

TW this is a rant about proship and comship! Tags will have more in-depth trigger warnings

Edit: OMG PROSHIPPERS STOP MAKING THIS POST ABOUT DEFENDING IF SHIPPING CHILD X ADULT OR INCEST IS OKAY OR NOT THE POST IS ABOUT THE LABLE I DONT WANT TO ARGUE WITH YALL ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.

This is my one post where all people on all sides of the proship debate can interact. Including proshippers. If that makes you uncomfortable then don’t interact. I hate echo chambers and I want to hear all sides.

Also sorry for cross tagging just want the opinions from all sides

Actual post:

I hate the terms proship, neutral ship, and antiship. They’re all extremes and I hate them. From what I understand the meanings are

Proship: support all ships no matter what even if they’re comships

Neutral ship: doesn’t have an opinion at all

Antiship: is anti any comship which is outrageous

If y’all don’t know comship just means complex ship or they enjoy more morally grey or imperfect ships. This can include things like human X different intelligent species (like aliens, furries, monsters) which most rational people don’t think is bad. But this can also mean kid X adult, family x family, or victim X abuser

I actually don’t identify as pro, neu, or anti because I think some comships are good and healthy. I think morally grey ships are important in media when done correctly. Especially since a lot of relationships are rocky and not always healthy and it’s good to show that in media. My own ocs personally aren’t in a perfectly healthy relationship because of their own issues. But this should be done respectfully and with care. Abuse shouldn’t be romanticized but people can be romantic outside of the abuse going on just like in real life relationships

But in a pedophilic fan fiction or art or an incest fanfic or art there is no such thing as a loving part of it. The relationship in itself is abuse because a minor being with a child is abuse and family members being together is abuse. It’s not healthy for anyone involved to romanticize relationships like that and frankly can effect reality no matter how you spin it because it’s representing something as normal to kids.

Right now a lot of neutrals, antis, and probably a lot of pro shippers are agreeing but that’s where my point really starts

The term “proship” and “anti ship” are too vague. If you say you’re proship you sound like you defend media where children are harmed. I understand the meaning is being proshipping and minding your business but that’s still what you look like and frankly that’s what the term does. If you’re pro everything then that means you’re pro the harmful stuff too

And the term “antiship” suggest that you’re anti shipping in general or anti any complex ship which is also unhealthy for us all because morally grey topics need brought up. Antis also are very very commonly okay with harassment when it comes to proshippers

And neutral ship is basically just saying you don’t have a opinion at all which is harmful because you’re suggesting you’re okay with the harm done on both sides. And I understand some people who are neutral ship agree with me and don’t just not care but I feel like majority is the former not the latter (based on what I’ve seen)

Also disclaimer if you’re neutral because of mental health or because you have better things to deal with that’s valid but identifying as neutral ship does put you in it and i instead suggest staying out of it entirely

So idk maybe we should make a term for the middle. I had a few ideas maybe something like middleship or intentship (intentship meaning enjoying or allowing all ships as long as the intentions are good and are not to romanticize trauma or abuse)

Idk everyone can share their opinions but if I see another proshipper say fiction doesn’t effect reality I’m gonna scream and if I see another anti shipper call all morally grey ships bad as if they done killed their grandma I’ll go insane

[slowlyshamelesscolor]

What is Neutralship?

Neutralship, often known as ship-neutral, refers to those who are "neutral" or unconcerned with shipcourse. They may be pro- or anti-leaning, or completely unaligned.

Neutralship also means your anti harassment. That implies you will not bother someone about their fandom preferences, or pass judgment on their fantasies or ships.

Neufic - those who identify as neufic may be pro- or anti-leaning, or wholly unaligned; they are neutral on fiction and do not engage in ship discourse

And for short, we are called newts.

The purple flags are peacefic. The pink is neutralship.

Peacefic Emoji combos - ☮🦢, ☮📖, 🌈☮, 🌈🦢, 🦢🌙,

Neutralship emoji combos - 🎀 🫧, 🎀🌙 , 🫧🎀 , 🌈🎀, 🌈 🫧, 🌈🌙

Neufic emoji combos-  💎 🦋, 🌈💎, 💍🦋

[corviddusk]

Saw a proshipper repost something about how people who voted for Trump are "still welcome uwu" and that "they're safe and sound here"

And like I just gotta say with the amount of predators coming from conservative spaces and proship spaces I'm not surprised... They have something to bond over it seems.

"I'm anti-censorship" oh you mean the same bullshit excuse that fascists who want to call for the murder of marginalized persons use. Obviously it was never about your fucking fanfiction you want to make bigoted content to propagandize your fascist views.

This is why I fucking despise the proship community and even though I'm anti-harassment and don't give a shit about what others do in their own spare time and don't force on others I will NEVER be proship. Sorry but me being POC means I can't be proship unless I just let crackers walk all over me and then beat me up for being otherwise marginalized.

[liverdoctor]

Looking through anti-proship accounts and it's got me thinking on my views so I'll state them publically for whatever reason just to air it out.

I consider myself neutral ship on the basis of using the "pro-shippery" type ships to cope with something in private is okay. If you are well-minded enough and old enough to reasonably understand that that cannot be done in real life and never should be is okay. Having designated and private corners like server, chats, sites, private accounts is alright. But do not, and I mean do not publically share that material. Do not normalize this kind of relationship. Having com-ship fiction in private is alright, but do not make it public.

[theshadowsingersraven]

Why Azriel Suddenly Seems More Like Lucien

HOFAS SPOILERS

Also, DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT THE SHIPS/ START UP SHIP ARGUMENTS. I JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT MY BOY. 

I've been seeing a lot of people talk about how Azriel’s behavior seems out of character/mimicking Lucien. And I don't really blame anyone for having these takes, truly! Azriel is very understated, and if you're not actively looking for it (as I suspect most people aren't, I didn't even notice these seeds until I started analyzing him to write him properly. Genuinely no shade to anyone who didn't notice what I did.) it's very easy to miss. 

First, let's look at how similar Lucien and Azriel actually are, even before HOFAS:

Lucien grew up in an abusive household where his father held some type of power within the community. His mother was abused, and his half-siblings treated him poorly. 

Lucien was able to escape his family, having to kill one of his brothers in the process, and found family ties to a friend in a position of power. Lucien actively plays a part in his Court. His position requires him to gather intel and was noted to have spy-like responsibilities. 

Lucien seems to not have a true “home”, especially after ACOFAS. He doesn't seem to “fit” or belong anywhere other than with the Band of Exiles. He's often “othered” or seen as an outcast. 

Azriel grew up in an abusive household where his father held some type of power within the community. His mother was abused, and his half-siblings and stepmother tortured him. 

Azriel was able to escape his family and was noted by Rhys to have done something to his brothers for revenge. He found family ties to a friend in a position of power. Azriel actively plays a part in his Court. His position requires him to gather intel, as he is the spymaster and also a torturer.

Azriel doesn't seem to “fit” or belong anywhere per his admission to Feyre in ACOMAF.

“I don’t really know where I fit in anymore,” I admitted, perhaps only because the wind was screeching around us and Rhys had already winnowed ahead to where Cassian’s dark form flew— beyond the wall. “I’ve been alive almost five and a half centuries, and I’m not sure of that, either,” Azriel said.

So while these are general character beats, they are also major ones. All of these aspects play a huge role in how both characters are being/will be developed. 

Now, the moment in ACOMAF when Azriel confesses to Feyre that he doesn’t know where he fits in, subtle as it is, is a huge character moment in my opinion. This is a pretty big admission from someone normally reserved/who doesn't let his feelings show. Rhys even mentions in his POV in ACOFAS that he and Cassian could spend hours trying to get Az to crack and tell them what he's thinking/feeling, and he doesn't. 

Why is this situation different?

Because Azriel is good at recognizing people's needs due to his empathy. 

He's willing to open up to people when he can see they need encouragement. He can lower those guards to help other people.

This is exactly what happened in the Truth-Teller scene with Elain, he parted with something he normally doesn't/something he finds comfort in having because she needed something that made her feel safe. (And if anyone understands how necessary it is to feel safe through not having that comfort, it’s Azriel.)

“It has never failed me once,” the shadowsinger said, the midday sun devoured by the dark blade. “Some people say it is magic and will always strike true.” He gently took her hand and pressed the hilt of the legendary blade into it. “It will serve you well.”

Additionally, this is the second instance in which Cassian volunteered to help Elain in some way, and either he was shot down or refused, and thus Azriel stepped in. 

In the first instance, Azriel had been internally debating when he said "I'm getting her back", per Feyre's observation of how his voice sounded. He knew it was risky, but it was also apparent that if Azriel didn't act or step in, then who would?

This aspect of his character was already hinted at earlier in ACOMAF by Feyre.

Azriel just shook his head. “I’ll go. The Prison sentries know me—what I am.” I wondered if the shadowsinger was usually the first to throw himself into danger.

This is then cemented by his decision to go into Hybern’s camp and rescue Elain. Cassian was shot down by Nesta. Rhys is a High Lord, he can't risk an infiltration mission like that. If Hybern captured him, they'd all be fucked without his power on the battlefield. Azriel is a shadowsinger, his skill set perfectly compliments stealthy rescue missions.

Saving people is a major part of Azriel’s character psychology. 

Why is that? 

Well, who saved Azriel from his father's cell in the basement? Who got him out?

No one.

Azriel was never rescued, he was released. Those are very different things, especially when his next living place was the brutal environment of an Illyrian war camp.

With his trauma and empathy, regardless of where you stand on ships, it makes sense he would risk his life to rescue someone. Especially someone vulnerable or in an environment they cannot escape on their own like he was as a child.

Furthermore, Azriel went with Mor to rescue the priestess’ at Sangravah. Azriel murdered every male that had touched Gwyn, and then covered her with his cloak after her brutal assault. He also knew not to touch her since she had just been violated by males, so Mor carried her out. 

Azriel saved Mor from dying when she was left at the Autumn Court border.

It’s not a coincidence that all of Azriel’s love interests, confirmed or highly suspected, are people he had a hand in rescuing. 

It’s also not a coincidence that the two females he’s confirmed to have an attraction to are both unwillingly tied to Beron’s sons. 

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if it’s later revealed that part of Azriel’s draw to Elain is founded on him trying to “redeem” his “failure to save Mor” from Eris. Lucien being Eris’ brother is enough for Azriel to unfairly believe them to be similar enough to warrant his disdain. He could very well unconsciously be trying to “save” Elain from Lucien as he incorrectly expects something similar to happen.

I hope that at some point, Azriel does have a moment where he realizes that he is unfair to Lucien and that they are actually quite similar and could get along very well. Because if there’s anyone who should know that just because you share blood with your half-brothers, it doesn’t mean you’re like them, it’s Azriel.  

And I hope that happens because, despite his disdain and unfair view of Lucien, Azriel is also generally shown to be thoughtful as well as empathetic.  

A faint smile bloomed upon Azriel’s mouth as he noticed Elain’s fingers whiteknuckled on that fork, but he kept silent…Elain cast pleading eyes on Rhys, then Azriel, such mortal fear coating her features, her scent. “We are raised this way. We hear stories of your kind crossing the wall to hurt us. Our own neighbor, Clare Beddor, was taken, her family murdered …”...Elain said, “It’s all very disorienting.” “I can imagine,” Azriel said. Cassian flashed him a glare. But Azriel’s attention was on my sister, a polite, bland smile on his face. Her shoulders loosened a bit. I wondered if Rhys’s spymaster often got his information through stone-cold manners as much as stealth and shadows.”

“I was still sore enough the next day that I had to send word to Cassian I wasn’t training with him. Or Azriel.  A mistake, perhaps, given that both of them showed up at the door to the town house within minutes, the former demanding what the hell was wrong with me, the latter bearing a tin of salve to help with the aches in my back. I thanked Azriel for the salve and told Cassian to mind his own business.” But Azriel only took Elain’s heavy dish of potatoes from her hands, his voice soft as night as he said, “Sit. I’ll take care of it.” Rhys was frowning, Cassian and Mor were both grimacing, and Azriel … It was pity on his beautiful face. Pity and sorrow as he watched my sister. Azriel plucked up the small folded silver wand within and unfurled it. One end held a clip, the other a small glass sphere. “You can attach this to whatever book you’re reading, and the little ball of faelight will shine. So you don’t have to squint when you’re reading at night.” Nesta touched the glass ball, no bigger than her thumbnail, and faelight flickered within, casting a bright, easy glow upon her lap. She tapped it again and it turned off. And then she jumped to her feet and flung her arms around Azriel. The room went silent for a beat. But Azriel chuckled and squeezed her gently. Cassian smiled to see it— to see them. “Thank you,” Nesta said, quickly pulling away to marvel at the device. “It’s brilliant.” Azriel blushed and stepped back, shadows swirling.

He also has his sharp-tongued, witty moments as well.

“…when Azriel clarified, “Cassian also excels at pissing everyone off. Especially amongst our friends. So, as a friend of Rhysand … good luck.” “No word on Bryaxis, I take it.” I peered toward the marble beneath my boots, as if I could see all the way to the library beneath this mountain and the now-empty lower levels that had once been occupied. Az studied the floor as well. “Not a whisper. Or a scream, for that matter.” I chuckled. My brother had a sly, wicked sense of humor. Azriel straightened a sagging section of garland over the windowsill. “It’s almost like you two tried to make it as ugly as possible.” “Pick on someone your own size,” Cassian said to Amren, shoveling roast chicken into his mouth. “I’d feel bad for the mice,” Azriel muttered.

And he proves his worth to himself and others by what he can do for them. 

When Rhys was done, his spymaster said, “I’ll contact my sources in the Summer Court about where the half of the Book of Breathings is hidden. I can fly into the human world myself to figure out where they’re keeping their part of the Book before we ask them for it.” “No need,” Rhys said. “And I don’t trust this information, even with your sources, with anyone outside of this room. Save for Amren.” “They can be trusted,” Azriel said with quiet steel, his scarred hands clenching at his leather-cladsides. “We’re not taking risks where this is concerned,” Rhys merely said. He held Azriel’s stare, and I could almost hear the silent words Rhys added, It is no judgment or reflection on you, Az. Not at all. But Azriel yielded no tinge of emotion as he nodded, his hands unfurling.

So, for me, as someone who writes Azriel's POV and studied all these scenes before doing so, the things Azriel did/said in HOFAS seem in the realm of possibility/believability for his character to me.

However, I don’t think that means that we had a smooth transition into this version of Azriel though. I’ll compare the scene with Nesta and the Mask and my own writing in the hopes of illustrating what I mean (and yes of course I’m going to take an opportunity to plug my fic lol)

Don’t worry, it’s a platonic interaction. 

HOFAS:

“Cassian’s waiting for you, Nesta,” Azriel said—tone gentling. “Take off the Mask.” Nesta stayed silent, Ataraxia ready in her hand. One swipe, and Azriel would be dead. “He’s waiting for you at the House of Wind,” Azriel went on. “At home.” Another blink from Nesta. The silver fire banked a little. Like whoever Cassian was, and whatever the House of Wind was … they might be the only things capable of fighting the siren song of the Mask. “Gwyn and Emerie are waiting,” Azriel pushed. “And Feyre and Elain.” The silver flame flared at that. Then Azriel said, “Nyx is waiting, too.” The silver flame went out entirely. The Mask fell from Nesta’s face, clattering on the stone. Nesta swayed, but Azriel was there, catching her, bringing her to his chest, scarred hands stroking her hair. “Thank the Mother,” he breathed. “Thank the Mother.”

My fic: (ACOSAR)

Azriel hummed, taking it all in. His shadows flickered in response to the animated wave of Solara’s hands, appearing to listen intently. "She sounds remarkable," he said, his tone sincere. "She is," Solara confirmed, a soft smile touching her lips. “I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye. Well, properly, at least. I wrote to her, letting her know I was leaving.” “She'll understand," Azriel reassured her quietly. "If she's anything like you say, I'm sure she won't hold it against you." "I know she'll understand," Solara agreed, deflating slightly. "But it's not really about that." Her normal vibrance flickered like a candle in a breeze, eyes turning downcast as she folded her arms across her chest… …Azriel took a step closer to her, his wings stretching slightly. The closest to Solara curled around her, bathing in the light; the veins visible through the membranous flesh. "Then what is it really about?" he pressed gently, coaxingly. His eyes bore into hers, pleading with her to let him help. …Solara could not return to Exandria.  "We'll find a way for you to see her again," Azriel said. As if of its own volition, his hand found her bicep. The light touch of his hand seemed to banish the tension from her almost instantly. She never shied from his touch despite the vile, warped skin of his hands…"...I promise."... …"I think... I think I'll be okay here." Solara said quietly, her gaze meeting his again... ..."I think you will thrive here," Azriel agreed. “Prythian may not be as wondrous as Exandria, but it is a place full of beauty. And I know one thing for certain; we will never leave you. We all have hundreds, if not thousands, of years ahead of us. You will never be forced to outlive those you care about ever again.”  With another reassuring squeeze of her arm, Azriel gently guided her forward as he strode towards the entrance to the manor.

I wanted to point this out mainly because in my writing, that’s after ten chapters of seeing their relationship develop. His reactions to Nesta and my OC are similar. And I wrote that in May of 2023, well before I read HOFAS.

I'm not putting it there as an example to say my writing is as good as SJM's (obviously), but more so saying it is a fair assessment of his character's potential growth and behavior further down the line. If I picked up on it from what she wrote thus far, before HOFAS, I think it's probably where she plans for him to go.

With Az and Nesta, while we know they get along and likely could become closer, we don’t see the build-up to this level of closeness in HOFAS. 

Unfortunately, it likely happened in those six months between ACOSF and HOFAS, and I don’t know if SJM plans to expand on that at all.

So, to sum everything up, essentially:

Do I think Azriel’s treatment of Nesta is in-character? Yes.

But do I think the execution is there for it to make sense that he's developed to this point? No.

I don't believe SJM is making him "mimic" Lucien because they're already similar in key aspects. Azriel does have tendencies to be caring yet smart-mouthed. I think SJM skipped a bunch of steps with Az’s development. Which makes me very sad, and I hope we do get to see it. 

Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk!

[entity56]

The reason why I am ship neutral: There are conflicting studies, both saying fiction does and doesn't affect reality, along with conflicting antidotes about each side of the argument The reason why I am shipcourse separated: It just. It's so irrelevant to me man

[mysteroads]

My Clever* Plan Was Ruined... by Love**

*I think I was clever anyway, **Not my love, thank heaven

The story, in brief: I had the brilliant plan to write three,-- that's right, count 'em-- THREE different Beetlejuice ships after my current Gen-fic series, because

Spite! since ship hate of imaginary characters is silly, I wanted to spite all the haters by spreading looooove 😘

I thought it'd be fun writing practice,

and two/three of the ships could possibly serve as a "choose your own sequel" to the gen-fic series, depending on the reader's preference,

But then my friend 💘fell in love💖 and infected me with her ewwy-gooey lovey-dovey cootie germs, right around the same time I saw the Musical live... so I jumped ahead on my plans and wrote Musicalbabes before I could write the Beetlands and KeatlejuiceXMiss Argentina fics.

So... expect that to come out soon! 🥳 Should be fun.

Mind you, I fully intend on writing those other two ship fics, they're just a lot... more difficult. Adam and Barbara are hard to write!😫😭 I'm working on it, dammit!

And I haven't had a chance to practice Keatlejuice or Miss Argentina yet. Only so many hours in the day, you know?

Plus I gotta finish my original series, "Strange and Usual Summer" ! (Follow the link. It'll be fun!)

Be patience, Beetlands and KeatleXArgentina fans. I'll get there. Promise.

[queermetalgremlin]

I see shipcourse everywhere i go, no matter how hard i try to escape it. I don't want your stupid goddamned labels, i don't want to be forced to group myself with harassers, shipcourse-obsessed fucks or consangs. There's no nuance, there's no wiggle room, you have to adhere to their standars 100% of the time, i HATE how anti-censorship is basically slang for proship, i hate how proships think that not being an harasser makes you one of them when their community is nothing but people who ship problematic stuff (which i don't care about, it's non eof my business, i just can't relate, so i don't feel like one of them) and i hate how antiships feel entitled to "bring justice and safety" like fucking missionaries when there's nothing wrong. I hate Hate HATE SHIPCOURSE WITH ALL OF MY HEART, FUCK ALL OF YOU, ALL OF YOU

[squeakyducky]

Simeon: B҉e҉ n҉o҉t҉ a҉f҉r҉a҉i҉d҉.

MC: Sir this is the sexiest moment of my life.

[bewareofdeaddove]

Once you start harassing people over their tastes in fiction, you've gone too far.

You should not be sending anon hate.

You should not be telling people to kill themselves.

You should not be contacting people's family members, job, or school.

You should not be sending people gore.

You should not be telling people that they deserve their trauma.

You should not be attacking people over liking something fictional. At that point, you're the problem. Not the person making things you don't like, YOU. Harassment is never acceptable.

[slowlyshamelesscolor]

MEW STIMBOARD

I got the gifs on pinterest credit to whoever made the stim gifs

Neutralship and peacefic users please interact! Also stimboard requests are open! ^_^

[romijuli]

It’s not that I don’t LIKE the Fandom Popular Pairings, it’s that I find the assumption that everyone ships them and the general all-consuming nature of said pairings to be kinda exhausting,

[acronym49]

The first time she's ever gotten to dance

Sunset in the bkg was actually a picture I took (edited obv)

[aestheticallynotdeerlightful]

I was gonna wait and post these till I had more doodles but I’ll just post them now it’s fine. I’ll just explain stuff in the tags as per usual

Some Raz poses and some Dion and Adam stuff

.

(Please do not use or repost my works anywhere without explicit permission from me thank you)

[pompompussy]

Imagine your F/O's smug expression the first time they lean in for a kiss. How it deepens, eyes half closing, a barely perceptible twitch to the corner of their mouth as they feel the nervous swallow in your throat, an excited inhale at the obvious tremble in your bottom lip as you return their affection.

'What, have you never been kissed before?' The smirk on their lips is playful as they brush against your lips once more before pulling away, amused to see you lean in closer, trying to recapture the taste of them again. Their amusement is short-lived as they watch an embarrassed expression slip over your face, feeling something wild and hot in their stomach at the realization that they're the first - your first kiss.

Gone is their amusement and in its place is an urgent desire to have you entirely for themselves. Hands lock onto your face, holding you in place as you try to look down in embarrassment, fingers digging into your chin as their mouth crashes against yours in a bruising, choking press.