#for your debate skills

[gayofthefae]

I FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE THINK MIKE'S STORY CHECKS OUT

I feel like the main important distinction that is the line between Byler and Milkvan for Mike's plot is that you need to listen to Mike's wording.

Mike is upset with himself because he COULDN'T say it. Not because he DIDN'T say it.

He says that maybe if he had said it things would have turned differently, that applies to both, but he ALSO says that he thinks he can't come back from it and that he should have explained himself but didn't because he didn't know what to do.

If you regret not having said something and will remedy that as soon as you see them again, as is Will's interpretation and suggestion ("whatever you didn't say, you can say it to her then"), then you won't say the things you do but the main point? YOU WON'T BE DWELLING ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Mike wouldn't have brought it up THREE TIMES to Will, saying basically the same thing the first two, if he weren't racking his brain confused. That is a man who DOES NOT HAVE A SOLUTION! not one who's just regretful. One who's regretful says it once and dwells on their lack of action, not their lack of knowledge. If he knows what to do NOW, there's no need to include "I didn't know what to do" in the story...we gathered that.

And THIS is where Byler comes in. I really that's the only difference because under knowing he doesn't have a solution, that requires the painting to have motivated it one way or another and that is an endgame ensurer.

I GET IT NOW. If Mike was immediately able to say it as soon as she left, it would be because in the moment he just froze up out of a fear of vulnerability and Will's painting would be inconsequential to him because he could already say it and would therefore only affect Will's arc, with its payoff being Will telling Mike his feelings and not the lie being revealed because the lie wouldn't have changed Mike's course of action at all. Then his later claim that he didn't say anything because he was scared in the moment makes total sense from the perspective that he was able to as SOON AS THE MOMENT PASSED.

I GET IT NOW. I GET WHY IT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE. Because it IS a consistent story...just consistent with a misinterpretation of Mike's words. Clever, writers. Clever. Very strategic ambiguity.

I just finally get it now and that took such a weight off of me I was seriously racking my brain at why people still thought this. They took Mike's words as "I should have" and not "If only I could have". I'm gonna be so much better at debunking now my God that was literally the only difference.

[hijklab]

The thing about liveship traders that I think is so dope is that from page one you’re given exactly the tools that the vestrits will use to get through everything together. They are traders, they bargain. They don’t just bargain their way into marriages, they bargain their way out of poverty, into new government structures, into the favor of the most powerful people and creatures in their world, into royal status among dragons and pirates and diplomats, until they’re literally shaping a new society and new relationship with humanity entirely. From day one we understand that this family has a specific skill set and then they use it to dig their way out of hell.

[sukibenders]

"I'm team feminist/feminism!" But will quickly drag a female character through the mud without sympathy for their circumstances just because they don't fit your ideals, will get mad when poc criticize a female character's actions that are very thinly coded in racism and say "support her crimes!" while ignoring how that often leads to the harm of poc characters, will shade woc characters or put them on higher pedestals than their yte counterparts while ignoring the harm they face while trying to meet your standards, will victim blame those who suffer (and are still suffering) from abuse when they act out in ways you deem "wrong" because of it, following up with the last point will mock and laugh at said abuse to uplift another female character (pitting women against women, even when the narrative does not ask for that), will dismiss any valuable argument displayed if the said female character is a little mean but then go and say "why can't female characters be mean? 🙄"

I could go on.

[narzissenkreuz-ordo]

people who scream 'dan heng is NOT dan feng whatsoever' yet always tag any dan feng content as 'dan heng'

[arsenicflame]

(in general, removed from any specific au's where he needs to swim/not swim for Plot)

(personally, i think my stance is that he has some ability to keep himself afloat in calmer waters- on the shore or in a pool- but not in the way where its a particular skill. hes spend enough time dicking around in the shallows with Jack & Sam & Ed to know how to handle himself in water where he cant consistently reach the bottom, to feel comfortable cooling off by a waterfall, but is also keenly aware that if he goes overboard, even in relatively calm waters, being able to swim isnt going to do anything to save his life if a dinghy isnt sent. hes not gonna drown the second he's in the ocean or anything, but hes screwed if the waters a little too rough or its late or a raid and it isnt noticed before the ships a way away.)

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

When I engage with the Silmarilion fandom it’s always very educational and enlightening no matter what side they’re on regarding Finwe and his sons. But whenever I interact with the HoTD fandom it’s always “you’re condoning XYZ and therefore you’re a horrible person!!!” Or doing mental gymnastics to try to justify whichever atrocities their side committed.

Thematically both stories are quite similar. We can find parallels with Rhaenyra and Feanor but even at his worst (Pulling a sword on Fingolfin, First kinslaying, burning of the ships etc.) Feanor had never put a bounty on a toddler (Rhaenyra stating that Maelor should be bought to her dead or alive causing him to be ripped apart. Like hello??!??? How is that ever a justifiable thing to do???). I can find parallels between Feanor and Rhaenyra, sure. But if I’m honest the parallels stop with them being the only child of a kings first wife who’s father then went on to face four more kids with another women. Finwe is ten times the father Viserys was. And literally none of the kids (Feanor included) would ever take their anger out on their siblings child like we see the so called Maegor come again do.

But I digress, I was talking of the fandom. I may get heated talking about whether Feanor was right in his anger at Indis or whether Fingolfin should’ve absolutely demanded more reparations from the sons of Feanor when he crossed the ice. But I’ve never seen anyone in the Silm fandom saying that someone should die because they had an opinion.

But I’ve seen many instances of HoTD fans threatening rape and death on people who think Alicent is not the monster they portray her as, or that Rhaenyra isn’t as ‘girl boss queen slay!!!’ As people say she is. Maybe it’s because HoTD is a TV show and many of the fans haven’t read the books and therefore don’t understand nuance since the TV show focuses so much on Rhaenyra’s manifest destiny arc that team green gets painted as the ‘ultimate’ villain for our girl boss queen Rhaenyra to ascend to the throne since it’s her ‘birth right’.

Not to mention how the whole made up show canon prophecy to justify colonialism means that team black stans are really showing their true colors on what they think is right. Because guess what? The Silm also has what could be said to be as a colonizing story line with the Noldor coming to Beleriand and settling but most fans agree that the cutting up of Beleriand was very much a colonizing behavior no matter what they think of Thingol.

Point is, most HoTD fans can’t hold and intellectually simulating debate over their characters without feeling like said debater is personally attacking them since their entire personality is so deeply entwined with their fav that a critique on them would automatically equate to a critique on themselves. Therefore making it entirely impossible to have a decent conversation on the thematically very important foils that Rhaenyra and Alicent pose to each other (since they still think a good story must have a black and white view of the protagonist and the antagonist lmao).

Media illiteracy in these fandoms truly is a cancer that spreads to even the most level headed and literate individuals. Pick up a book! Understand themes and how foils are supposed to be written without internalizing criticism of your fav as a criticism of yourself! I don’t get mad when people criticize Feanor, nor do I get mad when people say I’m wrong when it comes to my own interpretation of the statue of Finwe and Miriel. It’s called having a discussion and you can only do that when you’re not on the front lines dying for a fictional character who wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire in front of them!!!

[anaalnathrakhs]

oh god ed reddit is having the “uwu anorexia isn’t rooted in fatphobia my mental illness is not abt you” talk again please god help me

fatphobia doesn’t mean “being a meanie to fat ppl” i’m begging you to use critical thinking skills for five seconds and apply what you know about literally any other form of oppression to this situation.

people’s point isn’t that you having anorexia makes them feel bad and therefore you’re a bad fatphobic person.

they’re pointing out how the deeply ingrained fatphobia our society upholds, from misconceptions about health to moralization of looks and weight, including yes being jerks to fat ppl’s faces bc they’re fat, is affecting what you think about your own looks, weight, health, body, clothes, eating habits, etc.

the logic isn’t “you became anorexic because you hate fat people so much you never wanted to be fat yourself (and that makes you a bad person)” it’s “fatphobia is a prism that transforms the root cause of your ed into disordered thoughts, behaviors, and patterns (and unlearning fatphobia will help you with recovery and harm-reduction)”

like. it’s not for no reason that anorexia is a disorder that disproportionatedly affects women. it’s not for no reason that there’s sky high comorbidity rates for eds and ocd. it’s not for no reason that people who need control in their lives so badly that they develop a mental disorder abt it get obssessed with being skinny and not with being a sumo. it’s not for no reason that ppl who feel the need to retract to childhood due to trauma envy things like being skinny light and frail, instead of being a tubby baby. it’s not for no reason that there is an incredibly common anorexic thought pattern (internal and self-directed, don’t make me say what i didn’t say) that associaties restriction and weight loss with moral goodness.

for each of these there IS a number of exceptions, but you can see case by case how the root cause (trauma, need for control, for self-destruction, growing up poor, whatever you think is “unrelated to fatphobia” basically) is processed through the prism of the fatphobic culture we’ve all been raised in. some people just, voluntarily or not, deal with those root causes in different way, which might or might not be healthy. but it’s a consequence of ambiant fatphobia that “i should starve and be skinny about it” is a statistically pretty common response to this distress.

the point isn’t “it’s fatphobic that you don’t deal with your neuroses in a body positive way uwu” the point is that no matter how cool you are with fat people on like, a personal level, you’ve been (like the rest of us) bombarded with fatphobic thought patterns your entire life basically, both directly fatphobic things and reactions to this fatphobia. maybe spoken to you directly, maybe not. maybe about you maybe about other people. you live in a society that places moral values into looks and health, and also pushes some deeply rooted falsehoods about how those things tie into each other. you have a disorder defined by obsessive behaviors. maybe, just maybe, deconstructing the logic that those obsessives behaviors are based upon will help you deal with this disorder. and recover or reduce harm.

basically, anorexia isn’t “getting skinny disorder” it’s “obsession disorder”, obsession with looking attractive, or pleasing your family, or going back to being a kid, or being healthy, or being fit, or being driven and capable, or being worth saving, or having your suffering known, or having control over something, or whatever. the fatphobia that is omnipresent (and i repeat, omnipresent, nobody is singling you out as a bad fatphobic meanie, or even talking about your behavior towards other people around you) in our society picks the direction in which many many people will express that disorder.

of course if you live in a society that tells you “being fat is morally bad” at every turn, when you start developping an obssessive pathological need to control things, without another factor weighting in, most people’s default reaction will be anorexia. food is a regular fixture of everybody’s life, everyone wants to be morally good, and even if we know/understand/believe to an extent the flaws of that “fat = bad” logic we know the world around us still believes it, and nobody wants to be treated like shit. we can think it’s stupid and fight against fatphobia and work to treat fat ppl better in our lives and support body positivity, but in any case, one always judges oneself on different metrics than they judge others, cuz we control our self-improvement. that’s natural. just it doesn’t mesh well with a pathologically obssessive need for control above self-preservation.

[slaughtergutz]

Quick doodle before work that I don't have time to edit

Davey been fightin with Arlong since day 1.

[kiawren]

@h0t-p1nk-ch33tah-pr1nt the Nonbinary Necromancer is beating up your guy in the comics 😭 he looks like the spirits are giving him a tummy ache😭 also the girl kicking the dude is a Singaporean teen like me Haha hello. And they also have a horse girl whose dreams came true she has a telepathic bond with her fire horse or something. Idk what they're doing with Marvel these days but the teen heroes are getting more obscure and silly😭

[merakiui]

me after i take 17 benadryl and start seeing the hat man.

the hat man in question:

[disast3rtransp0rt]

we need to start treating "debate me" people with the same open scorn and derision that we give "pick me" people. like...

some absolute dingus: there are only two genders! prove me wrong! me, using the deadest possible stare so they truly understand how few fucks I give about engaging with their bullshit because it's clearly asinine: I don't have time to take this W right now, but thanks for the offer.

what're they gonna do? you've already won.

[gayofthefae]

Okay, season 3 was Mike defending El and it came out wrong then being a usual nervous kid and season 4 Mike froze up in the moment and was able to say "I love you" as soon as El left, the letters were either a coincidence or based in anxiety/commitment issues, and him telling Will he didn't know why he couldn't say it was him berating himself not continuing to question his ability. Sure. Whatever. Fine...

What was the roller rink fight, then?

No, see, he's confirmed to have no knowledge of Will's feelings and even if he did, it would contribute nothing to his arc or character to have him be defensive about that when the rest of the season is unaffected by it and has him seeming totally comfortable, so why did he say that? I'm listening...Nope, I will not accept the argument "his actions are only for Will's arc and so they can be out of character and mean nothing". They are professional writers and this isn't a courtroom; you don't need to undermine my credibility. No, I didn't ask why he said he ignored him, I asked why did he clarify that he didn't call because calling would have been romantic - keeping in mind that it must be in character and relate to some arc of his.

You can explain everything. I disagree on certain details of phrasings and larger arcs, but you can *technically* explain everything...but

him

[depressedhatakekakashi]

I love anime

I hate anime fandom because power-scaling arguments are BS and need to die

But i love anime :)

[monards]

the block button is so important but dear lord does it take so much control to use it.

[wall-e-gorl]

grown man coworker keeps talking about how homework shouldnt exist and "they have me for 8 hours, and they didnt manage to teach me? they failed" which like. first off you told me you failed math three times cause you couldnt understand negatives. second off, in highschool you have 7 classes. and a lunch. and passing periods. teachers have less than an hour with you. if youre resistant to learning from them in the first place, an hour isnt going to do shit for you. i dont like homework as a concept either but you are not in school anymore and your arguement for it is flawed anyway

[snekdood]

idk who needs to hear this (vaush) but being a skilled debater and being Good With Words does not make you correct.