#anti Rhaenyra Targaryen fans

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

When I engage with the Silmarilion fandom it’s always very educational and enlightening no matter what side they’re on regarding Finwe and his sons. But whenever I interact with the HoTD fandom it’s always “you’re condoning XYZ and therefore you’re a horrible person!!!” Or doing mental gymnastics to try to justify whichever atrocities their side committed.

Thematically both stories are quite similar. We can find parallels with Rhaenyra and Feanor but even at his worst (Pulling a sword on Fingolfin, First kinslaying, burning of the ships etc.) Feanor had never put a bounty on a toddler (Rhaenyra stating that Maelor should be bought to her dead or alive causing him to be ripped apart. Like hello??!??? How is that ever a justifiable thing to do???). I can find parallels between Feanor and Rhaenyra, sure. But if I’m honest the parallels stop with them being the only child of a kings first wife who’s father then went on to face four more kids with another women. Finwe is ten times the father Viserys was. And literally none of the kids (Feanor included) would ever take their anger out on their siblings child like we see the so called Maegor come again do.

But I digress, I was talking of the fandom. I may get heated talking about whether Feanor was right in his anger at Indis or whether Fingolfin should’ve absolutely demanded more reparations from the sons of Feanor when he crossed the ice. But I’ve never seen anyone in the Silm fandom saying that someone should die because they had an opinion.

But I’ve seen many instances of HoTD fans threatening rape and death on people who think Alicent is not the monster they portray her as, or that Rhaenyra isn’t as ‘girl boss queen slay!!!’ As people say she is. Maybe it’s because HoTD is a TV show and many of the fans haven’t read the books and therefore don’t understand nuance since the TV show focuses so much on Rhaenyra’s manifest destiny arc that team green gets painted as the ‘ultimate’ villain for our girl boss queen Rhaenyra to ascend to the throne since it’s her ‘birth right’.

Not to mention how the whole made up show canon prophecy to justify colonialism means that team black stans are really showing their true colors on what they think is right. Because guess what? The Silm also has what could be said to be as a colonizing story line with the Noldor coming to Beleriand and settling but most fans agree that the cutting up of Beleriand was very much a colonizing behavior no matter what they think of Thingol.

Point is, most HoTD fans can’t hold and intellectually simulating debate over their characters without feeling like said debater is personally attacking them since their entire personality is so deeply entwined with their fav that a critique on them would automatically equate to a critique on themselves. Therefore making it entirely impossible to have a decent conversation on the thematically very important foils that Rhaenyra and Alicent pose to each other (since they still think a good story must have a black and white view of the protagonist and the antagonist lmao).

Media illiteracy in these fandoms truly is a cancer that spreads to even the most level headed and literate individuals. Pick up a book! Understand themes and how foils are supposed to be written without internalizing criticism of your fav as a criticism of yourself! I don’t get mad when people criticize Feanor, nor do I get mad when people say I’m wrong when it comes to my own interpretation of the statue of Finwe and Miriel. It’s called having a discussion and you can only do that when you’re not on the front lines dying for a fictional character who wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire in front of them!!!

[the-daily-dreamer]

“I am Blood and Fire. Driftmark must pass to Salt and Sea.”

And if I said clown behavior??? If I said what a cheap attempt at excusing no women inheriting any claims other than Rhaenyra???

Baela was raised by her salt and sea side. Her blood and fire side neglected and ignored her. And then they only accepted her as valuable when she was viewed as a future wife and mother. Rhaenyra fought to push her bastard on the seat of Driftmark to reaffirm her position subsequently passing over Baela. Corlys passes over both his granddaughters for his bastard grandson because he’s more obsessed with his name than his blood.

But now the show has run into the fact that actually team black is only propping up one woman, so what do they do? They have Driftmark be freely offered to a woman and have her turn it down so it can be taken by a man and follow book canon. Because naturally, Baela would have no ambitions of her own. Naturally, Baela would never stand for her sister to take the seat. She only exists to empower Rhaenyra! She believes in feminism!! So she has to support Rhaenyra’s claim to the IT and not accept her own claim to Driftmark.

Because feminism for team black is just Rhaenyra is special and has a right to rule. But all other women should exist solely to prop Rhaenyra up and have no claims.

What a complete and utter joke this show can be.

[maybeiwasjustjade]

Genuinely, perhaps 99% of me, believes that the only reason Condal and Hess made HOTD Aegon a r*pist/have adult Aegon’s introduction the aftermath of the SA of a maid, was because they knew that if Aegon was just a drunk and a cheat—like almost all Westerosi men—he would be too tragic of a character not to root for, and they really couldn’t have that. No, Aegon has to be the monster to Rhaenyra’s saint, because if you took away the act that made him monstrous, he’s so easy to root for, and the TB/TG divide would be significantly larger.

Cheating and visiting brothels are quite common in Westeros, with the vast majority of male characters doing one or the other or both. Drinking is even more so. Aegon would still be palatable with either or both traits because it doesn’t make him worse than Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra had three bastards with Harwin because Laenor’s gay, so it makes her affair understandable and valid. Aegon was forced to marry his own sister as a young teen, and clearly despises the whole targ-incest tradition. Why is it a crime that he doesn’t find his little sister sexually or romantically attractive???

Aegon’s basically a Greek tragedy made flesh. The eldest son conceived to be a long-awaited heir, yet simultaneously cheated out of a birthright. Born wanted yet unwanted, the heir who is not an heir. Meant to be loved, yet raised without it, with a mother’s disdain and fear as his only companion. His father stopped wanting him sometime after his second birthday (probably around the time Jacaerys was born), and his mother never wanted him anyway. His mere existence is a threat to a crown he never wanted, yet nobody cared when they placed it on his head. He wants love but no one loves him, and contrary to popular belief, that lack of love didn’t just stem from adulthood. He was a little boy once too, who very much didn’t deserve that level of apathy.

Married to his sister despite his clear disdain for his family’s incestuous tradition. Forced to father children on her at the grand old age of sixteen (and she fourteen). The only thing he ever really loved was his dragon, and the children he had. And even those he loses to tragedy, and someone else’s doing.

It’s not at all a surprise that Aegon’s defining trait is his love for Sunfyre. A ridiculously strong bond, born from years of having only each other. Moreover, a dragon is the symbol of power, which Aegon has little of. He can’t protect himself from his own family’s abuse or machinations, and unless he claims the crown everyone he loves will die. Dragons also represent freedom, and the ability to just fly away. And if there’s one thing Aegon wants more than anything in the world, it’s to run away from his family and the accursed throne.

In that, he’s not so different than a young Rhaenyra (pre-personality change anyway). Young Rhaenyra hated having to conform to societal standards. Hated having no choice but to marry, and to whom. She too wanted to fly away to freedom. There’s too many parallels between the two, even down to their ages pre-timeskip. Rhaenyra was about 18, and Aegon now is only 20. Yet Rhaenyra at 16’s only problem was whether her infant brother would replace her as heir, while Aegon’s was being forced to play house with his sister and newborn twins.

Perhaps misogyny and society would always be Rhaenyra’s greatest opponent, and the same Aegon’s ally when it comes to their claims, but it was not the only issue. Precedent declared that Aegon would be heir ahead of her, yet it was Rhaenyra’s position and honor that Viserys defied law for, even when she committed high treason against the crown thrice. She got everything; Aegon had nothing. He’s the underdog of the story, not her. So had they not made him an on screen r*pist (unlike Daemon who was off-screen one and merely an on-screen pedo and wife-killer), it would’ve been very hard for the writers to push their “Rhaenyra good, TG bad” narrative. Those two would’ve had too many parallels and foils for it to work, and they really couldn’t have that, could they.

No, Aegon has to be the villain; Rhaenyra has to be the hero. It’s a black and white war, good vs evil. That’s the story HOTD is trying to sell, and not at all the complex tragedy of a family tearing itself and its dynasty into pieces over greed and idiocy.

[sunnysideaeggs]

‘Queen Helaena, a sweet and gentle soul, is much beloved by the smallfolk of King’s Landing. Rhaenyra was not, so when rumors began to arise that Helaena did not kill herself, but rather was murdered at Rhaenyra’s command, the commons are quick to believe them.’

- GRRM, september 4th 2024.

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[wishesofeternity]

The thing about HotD is that it while it absolutely minimizes the agency and ambition of both Rhaenyra and Alicent, this is specifically used to glorify Rhaenyra and frame her as righteous while condemning Alicent and framing her lacking. That's the key difference in both their textual portrayals that has directly led to 90% of the fandom hailing Rhaenyra as the second coming of Christ while spewing the most hateful vitriol at Alicent just for existing. But y'all are not prepared for that conversation.

[alicentsgf]

i hope alys gets to escape with aemonds baby and daeron burns down his own tent and rides off into the sunset just so the faction of this fanbase that revels in alicents line dying out has to shut the hell up. like personally i never gave a shit. biological legacy is overrated. but since you all wont be quiet then yes, alicents line actually continued indefinitely and they all got to live their lives free and unburdened by some stupid targaryen prophecy whereas rhaenyras descendents carried just long enough to scorn her, implode again, and die off completely.

[sunfyrisms]

Yess I’ve noticed that there is a huge disconnect between fans who read the books and those who have solely watched the tv show.

Those who read the books better understand how messed up the Targaryens are, and how they ruined themselves from within. From thinking they’re superior and comparing themselves to gods, to all of the inbreeding.

Those who solely watch the show seem to root for them (or just Dany) at every turn.

I can definitely see a mad queen arc coming for Dany in the books, the show just rushed it and wrote it poorly. Now I feel that George rr Martin may be too scared of the backlash from those who fell in love with the tv character.

this is super late, i apologize, anon!

i cannot blame people who haven’t read the books. house of the dragon goes out of their way to glorify a house who descends from incredibly vicious and violent slavers. instead of portraying aegon the conqueror’s conquest as something that was done entirely done by greed, they indirectly portray him as this noble man who felt compelled to unite the realm to fight against the white walkers.

rhaenyra is portrayed as the perfect queen, who was approved by the gods themselves. of course she knows of the prophecy, and like aegon, is portrayed as this noble individual who is burdened by this divine task and must unite the realm. she is a perfect targaryen dragonrider and anyone who dares dislike her or speak out against her is a villain who must be punished and humbled (alicent) or brutally executed (vaemond).

fire and blood was created to show how house targaryen, as you perfectly said, ruined themselves from within. house of the dragon is a poorly written fanfiction that was created as a cash grab and as a way to portray targaryen superiority.

[sunfyredefender77]

lmao this your queen⬇️

[rynnthefangirl]

Sometimes it becomes hard to hate Team Green when they do such a great job of causing pain and suffering to my least favorite character.

Aemond's a deranged bloodthirsty little psycho, but when he burnt his rapist usurper brother to a crisp?? Iconic.

Alicent is an obnoxious hypocrite, but now she's throwing her son under the bus and is gonna let him be beheaded? Wonderful! It's about time someone did that.

Otto is a manipulative traitor piece of shit, but him putting Aegon the Usurper in his place was one of the highlights of season 2.

Larys is a snake, but he's also gonna poison Aegon down the line, which will be doubly great in the show with Aegon being betrayed by the dude he thought was on his side.

Aegon stole his sisters crown, and all it will ever bring him is betrayal, heartbreak, suffering, agony, and death. As it should be.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“Poor Helaena…to lose a child like that”

“Poor Aegon…a father’s rage is justified”

Not hearing a whole lot of poor Rhaenyra who lost her father, her son, her throne and her unborn daughter in a short span of time.

According to TG stans, a child’s death is absolutely horrible (unless it’s Rhaenyra’s. If it’s Rhaenyra’s child, it’s fun, let’s celebrate).

I fail to see why Helaena’s grief is more important than Rhaenyra’s. She lost one son, said “bye bye world” and shut down (and I don’t see anyone pointing fingers at her and calling her useless in this war even though she was. She had a dragon she could use, but chose to remain locked up in her room and in depression).

Rhaenyra lost a whole lot more, and she had to stay on her feet and fight to take back what rightfully belongs to her.

Why is Jaehaerys’ death more tragic than Lucerys’?

Lucerys was murdered in cold blood, just like that boy of Helaena’s who’s barely relevant throughout the whole story.

Lucerys was a boy too.

Now there’s the question of who shed first blood.

The Greens did.

Actions call for reactions, and this is war.

Daemon wanted Aegon the Usurper to lose a son, just like the Greens forced Rhaenyra to suffer the loss of one of her own. He called for retribution. A life for a life. He could have arranged to have everyone in that tower killed that night. He could have demanded Aegon’s daughter, Jaehaera, be killed in exchange for the life of the daughter the Greens made him lose (Visenya). But he didn’t.

I’ve seen comments cheering on Aegon for wanting vengeance for his dead son, but apparently Rhaenyra is not allowed to demand retribution for the death of hers.

Misogyny runs high in the 21st century, doesn’t it? A woman who is not perfect is a monster, and a man with vices is just “misunderstood”.

And then you all have the nerve to point fingers at people who don’t care about the consequences of B&C. No, I don’t care that Aegon’s child is going to be murdered. Because I didn’t see that sympathy from stans when Lucerys was murdered. All I saw were jokes made at a child ripped apart by the biggest and most dangerous dragon alive because her rider is a twisted one-eyed psychopath.

The Blacks are entitled to vengeance.

Lucerys’ death is on Aemond’s head. And so is Jaehaerys’. He’s 100% responsible. If anyone is to blame for B&C, it’s Aemond the Kinslayer.

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

People who don’t understand how feudalism works and tries to shoehorn in our modern sensibilities into said world with very clear world building and set rules in place are the bane of my existence.

In ASOIAF, bastards cannot inherit anything unless legitimized and have no trueborn relatives to inherit their seats. It doesn’t matter if they are “recognized” as trueborn by their parents if other people doubt and have ‘convincing’ proof that they are bastards. And being recognized as trueborn does not equate to being legitimized because in order for someone to be legitimized, they have to first be acknowledged as baseborn to begin with.

The books are more ambiguous since Rhaenys had Baratheon black hair and purple eyes, but even she had the purple eyes of her father. But no matter how people might interpret the Strong boys’ appearance, it was made pretty damn clear that they were bastards. The parallels between Rhaenyra/Harwin and Cersei/Jamie, cannot be made more clear with how both of them are present when their paramours were birthing their child. Harwin was present during the birth of Lucerys and Jamie was present for the birth of Joffrey. It literally cannot be more of a parallel between the three golden Lannister bastards of the Queen and the three brown haired bastards of a Princess.

‘Oh but Laenor claimed them as his own!’ So did Robert. ‘Corlys had no problem with Luke being heir of Driftmark!’ And Tywin upheld that his grandkids were legitimate until he died. Plus even overlooking Corlys’ ambitions, have you gave any thought to how things would pan out if he came out and said that the kings favorite child cuckholded his heir? Viserys wouldn’t stand for any slander against Rhaenyra as proven by the Driftmark incident and his inaction after Vaemond was fed to his daughters dragon and the silent five so what makes you think that he would over look Corlys ‘slandering’ his daughter?

If Corlys came out after Jace’s birth and denounced him and Rhaenyra, not only would his life be forfeit, his house’s legacy would be completely ruined. There’s no doubt that Viserys would commit terrible injustices to protect Rhaenyra, seeing how he was one of the three candidates for the culprit of the Harrenhal fire. He’s ambitious not dumb and going against the favored child of the king and the favorite niece of the person who wields dark sister and rides one of the largest dragons alive would be like volunteering to put your head and all of your loved ones heads on the chopping block.

If he had doubts about the Strong boys’ legitimate cannot do anything about it. Not when Viserys is so protective of Rhaenyra.

Bastards cannot inherit unless legitimized and to be legitimized is to proclaim to the realm that they were born out of wedlock to begin with. The Strong boys have not been legitimized since they were never declared to be illegitimate but anyone with eyes can tell that they aren’t trueborn.

Within the confines of GRRM’s world building, passing illegitimate offsprings as legitimate is a crime punishable by death or a life of servitude to the faith. Within royalty, it’s tantamount to high treason with the only punishment being the death of the adulterer. The only reason Rhaenyra wasn’t penalized by law was because she held the favor of a king. But that doesn’t mean she wasn’t penalized by the masses because she was shown to be an oath-breaker. Because that’s what adultery is in ASOIAF, it’s oathbreaking. (Literally the whole reason Catelyn and Ned’s marriage was so fraught with tension in the beginning was because she thought Ned broke his oath.)

Sure in modern day society, if you and your husband consent to an open relationship which results in children and he adopts them, then in the eyes of the law the child is his legitimately and he is their father. But once again, in a feudal setting, adoption, especially as a noble, doesn’t exists.

Blood matters a whole lot in ASOIAF, Robert was not only able to take the throne through right of conquest but also right of blood through his grandmother. Legitimacy was tantamount. You can make the argument that Jace would’ve been fine to inherit the Iron Throne through the blood of his mother that was running through his veins but Luke had no Velaryon blood in his veins bar what’s left of Alyssa Velaryon which was four generations ago. It’s like saying Jon can inherit Runestone since his great-great grandmother was a Royce.

Even if Rhaenyra ascended the throne without opposition. She shot Jace in the foot with her remarriage to Daemon and subsequently producing two trueborn sons. If the dance of dragons didn’t occur between the black and greens, somewhere down the line, some grasping lord unsatisfied with a bastard ruling them would push to get Aegon on the throne no matter the cost.

[the-daily-dreamer]

When team black’s very own perfect male wife, Daemon Targaryen, goes behind his wife’s back, overrules her decisions, and stains her reputation…

I been trying to tell team black that daemon ain’t a male wife for the last year to no avail. That man has not once given a crap about Rhaenyra or what she wants or believes in. He believed that grooming her would lead to her being subservient to him and bending to his will so he could be king.

He’s acting like he’s king. Because in his eyes he’s the real power. It’s why he chokes her when she isn’t decisive like he wants. It’s why he makes ulterior plans without her permission to get what he wants. It’s why he ignores her when she needs him in pain and fear and grief. And most importantly, it’s why he sullied her name.

He is angry that he is behind Rhaenyra in succession, angry that he relies on her claim to get himself and his blood on the throne, angry that he has to answer to her instead of the other way around. So he will destroy her claim and her reputation so that he is more loved than her.

If you wanna be a fan of daemon because he’s just a bad person and you like how bad he is…go ahead. But I’ve had enough of the team black “perfect innocent meow meow male-wife girl dad daemon” narrative. He’s a pedophile, a predator, a misogynist, a wife beater and murderer, and a genuinely despicable person who just had a child killed to suit his blood lust and hatred as well as to ruin the reputation of the woman he resents for being more than him. At this point, you’re all stanning a man who is everything you wish team green would be and your hypocrisy is showing

[dirtytransmasc]

... she never made an effort... she only ever furthered herself from her siblings... she only made herself look like a threat, having it made clear viserys would always favor her, protecting her lies at the risk of others, after abandoning her mother when she needed her most, and used and lied to her, hurting her more than she already was from Viserys, for her own benefit (not to mention her manipulative father buried those thoughts deep in her mind while she was still a CHILD herself)... she had every reason to "hate" (fear) Rhaenyra and in her attempts to protect her children, extend that fear/hatred to them. even then, outside of Aemond (justifiably, considering she felt entitled to his eye and wanted to have him tortured) none of them even really hated her until the dance, at the very most, they felt resentful because their father loved her 10x more than he loved all 4 (including Daeron) of them combined, and at the very least, they felt nothing as she was never there, never mattered to their lives outside of court and politics.

this take is shit. Rhaenyra never cared. she never wanted her siblings in her life. she felt entitled to Aemond's eye, and you want to tell me she gave a shit, not even enough to spare her 10 year old brother, over an insult?

(and before you bring up her call for her siblings to come bend the knee, we know how she can kiss up and lie through her teeth in times of need, her words hold little backing. see it as truth if you want, but I can't trust it, not with how she's acted previously.)

[rhaenin-time]

It's always, "If Rhaenyra were in Alicent's position, she would have done the same or probably worse to Dyana," and never "If Alicent were in Rhaenyra's position, she definitely would have raped Laenor and outed him and destroyed his life if it didn't work."

And one is definitely more likely than the other...

[alicentsaegon]

Can I just say that had Nettles been canonically a pretty white woman no one, absolutely no one would question her and Daemon's relationship as anything other than romantic/sexual. There would be no theories on her being his bastard, there would be no erasing her character and what she represents to the story just to hype up their blood supremacist ship and make it look as healthy as possible or make it look as this grand love story (Daemon and Rhaenyra are are best when they are at their worst <3) just saying. When Nettles left and upon her departure Caraxes roared so loudly he broke all the windows of the castle. Almost as if dragons and riders have a soul bond and that scene was specifically meant to reflect how Daemon felt as if his soul was crying out for her. Hmmmmmm. Also idk guys do many men take baths with their daughters? Even Targaryen men?