#anti vaemond velaryon

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

The “sympathy” given to Vaemond Velaryon is ridiculous (we all know that it is really about digging way too hard for a motive to portray Rhaenyra as “evil”). Comparing his death to that of Lyman Beesbury is reaching.

Lyman Beesbury was an honorable old man who had the courage to speak up during a treasonous and secretive Council meeting whose purpose was to usurp the rightful heir to the throne. He had no personal motivation and was of pure heart when he accused the Greens of high treason. And those vipers killed him for it.

Vaemond Velaryon was a snake in the grass, just like Larys Strong and Otto Hightower.

He was nephew to Corlys Velaryon, a coward, an opportunist and an upstart himself, who sought to use malicious rumors and the misfortune of a woman brought down on her by the members of his own House (they all knew about Laenor’s true nature) to not only take Driftmark away from Lord Corlys’ chosen heir, Lucerys, but also from Baela and Rhaena.

Vaemond deserved what he got.

[darklinaforever]

"Pay the price ? Seriously ? And what the hell ? Do what she wants with her body ? Having children with someone she liked ? Rhaenyra deserves to be punished for this?"

Yes, because she is not a woman in the twenty-first century, but a woman in the Middle Ages (even if this world was INSPIRED by that times - the structure of society there is the same). So by the standards of this society, she has no right to sleep with any other man who is not her husband, much less have children with him. So I'm sorry, but she, to quote the smart part of the Velarion family, is a whore and yes - should be punished for this.

Are you really saying that we should validate the way in which a patriarchal and misogynistic society functions that GRRM literally spends his time criticizing in the writings of his own universe ?!

So who implies that the functioning of this society is problematic ? Especially towards women ?

Are you really telling me that a woman who dares to defy a patriarchal and misogynistic system preventing her from doing what she wants with her life and her body is a whore and deserves to be punished for that ?

You need to get treatment.

Also, the definition of prostitute is literally having sex with something in exchange, a transaction. And that’s what ironically Alicent does with Larys. Not Rhaenyra having children with someone she liked.

And yes, Vaemond is very smart for publicly shouting that Rhaenyra, the rightful heir to the throne, was a whore in front of her father and her husband who always defends her on this subject, especially compared to Daemon who gave a tacit chance to Vaemond to get away with it, but he decided to play the more smarter, and or committing an official act of treason, to the point that if Daemon had not killed Vaemond he would have had his tongue cut out anyway under Viserys's orders.

So, I'm not sure then that we can say that he was really the smart part of the Velaryons...

@kittenfangirl20

[rynnthefangirl]

How awful that Team Black wanted Baela and Rhaena to be usurped by their bastard cousins.😤

They should be usurped by their true born uncle dammit!!!

[daeneryspilled]

also, a heavy reminder that andal succession ‘law’ isn’t actually law, because it isn’t codified. it's more akin to tradition and in some cases precedent (like with the great council of 101). grrm has confirmed this time and time again, "it... depends. succession "laws" aren't actually laws, and just like in real-life medieval history, some lords will bend and twist tradition depending on their circumstances."

the lords can choose who their successor is. unless rhaenyra is queen, or put into a more powerful position than 'princess', the most she can do is advocate for lucerys to inherit. she doesn't have any say in the velaryon succession. vaemond can throw his hissy fit all he wants, but at the end of the day, he only cares about his rise to power; not the well-being of house velaryon. if he did, he would support baela or rhaena; and considering, "history does not remember blood, it remembers names," luke and rhaena were going to be married to each other, which would solve the succession crisis just one generation later.

i understand though; using one's brain is rather difficult, isn't it?

i made a helpful slideshow for those who may be confused!

[sunfyrisms]

literally why is it that every single velaryon seems to exist to boost up rhaenyra.

laena isn’t loved by daemon because he misses the niece he groomed, her “i want to die a dragonrider’s death” will surely be made to make rhaenyra’s demise a badass moment (it will never be anything of the sort. it is empty and tragic). in fact, rhaenyra fucks laena’s husband the very night of her funeral and marries him the day after or so!

corlys literally cannot grieve the loss of his wife without being given her station and made out as the bad guy because he’s angry at rhaenyra (he already made her bastard son his heir, though we can all acknowledge it was more out of benefit to his house, and his house has worked tirelessly to supply her ships).

literally 99% of the scarce screen-time baela receives is propping rhaenyra.

rhaena is ordered to be a glorified babysitter to rhaenyra sons (who are, uniquely, her half-brothers but you couldn’t tell with the lack of warmth between rhaena and her step-mother).

it’s interesting that the only velaryon who doesn’t fall into this category, vaemond, is literally brutally murdered for calling out rhaenyra and the fact she wants house velaryon to be ruled by a bastard who has no legitimate direct tie to his house, and literally knows nothing about their ways. in fact, he has to call her a whore to distract the audience from the fact he’s speaking the literal truth and everyone is too busy purposefully ignoring it to acknowledge he’s right.

it’s a bit odd that they were all intentionally made black when literally all they do is prop her up, and the man who doesn’t kiss her ass is executed, that’s all!

[danyyytarggg]

one of my gripes about house of the dragon is the lack of a true royal court. in game of thrones, we were shown a red keep bustling with people, both servants and nobility alike. we were shown ladies-in-waiting and noble men and women at court attempting to seek favor from the royal family like cersei, margaery, etc. there were always people around and spectators to be careful of when conducting your business in the castle. we really are not gifted this in house of the dragon. sure, we’ve seen some small glimpses of the royal court and castle life but nothing significant enough to even be close to comparable to that of game of thrones, which is such a shame because it adds so much to the idea of nobility/royal life. in a way, it makes hotd sort of dull, lifeless, and empty in the red keep, dragonstone, driftmark, etc. as well as making the world small and sort of isolating around the targaryens/velaryons/royalty/small council, and not even in an “untouchable” sort of way, just sort of in a “there’s just nobody around” way. not to mention, depicting the royal court/nobility more would be significant in a show centered around a power struggle for the throne. and seeing team green and team black truly navigate court prior to viserys’ death as well as during this war would have added so much more to the story such as depth, significance, etc. even in appearance, the red keep seems dull whereas in game of thrones, the castle was vibrant, decorated, bustling.

this also plays a role in that i’m personally not a fan of how the show depicts royalty/nobility. from the lack of extravagant clothing (though i feel like the show has done just a tad bit better this season), lack of court/castle life, to the way people tend to blatantly disrespect the royal family without punishment (with the exception of vaemond), even the way they sometimes speak, the show lacks in giving me the sense of “THESE are the TARGARYENS. THIS is how ROYALTY are like. THIS is how the HIGHEST NOBILITY live.”

personally, the show just isn’t depicting royalty/royal court/castle life/nobility to the extent it should and can even come across as sloppy at some points.

[thevelaryons]

HotD racebent the Velaryons and their sole purpose on the show (so far) is to be subservient to Rhaenyra. Am I reading too much into it if I say this is incredibly racist?

There’s definitely racism in the writing. No doubt about it.

A lot of Corlys’ most intelligent political moments are actions taken against Rhaenyra. So HOTD dumbed him down and even centered Rhaenyra in parts of the story where Corlys held authority in the book. Corlys is mostly relegated to the position of being Rhaenyra’s yes man and anytime he speaks against her, the characters around him shame him into silence in the same breath as exalting Rhaenyra. Laena’s relationship with Daemon is completely screwed over to prop up Rhaenyra and even Laena’s death was changed to foreshadow Rhaenyra’s death by dragon fire as something glorious & empowering. HOTD invented Laenor having internalized homophobia so that Rhaenyra could be positioned as the one who saves him from himself. Addam is immediately subservient and obedient to Rhaenyra as soon as he meets her without being given the same honors for his loyalty that his book counterpart got. Vaemond is randomly villainized as a raging bigot instead of a typical ambitious nobleman so that his death can be justified and brushed under the rug, to absolve Rhaenyra. The Silent Five are erased to avoid showing the accountability for the characters’ actions and that scene in HOTD is instead depicted as a touching father/daughter moment between Viserys and Rhaenyra. And there’s a bunch of other stuff too.

If HOTD writers think they’re doing Rhaenyra any favours by making these changes to the characterization, well they aren’t. It’s her character that ultimately looks worse and will continue to do so in the long run.

[watcherintheweyr]

Except unlike Robert Baratheon, Laenor and Corlys were aware of the truth and claimed the boys anyways. For Laenor it was a relief, seeing as he and Rhaenyra had tried and were unable to conceive, but both were aware the throne and the House Velaryon needed heirs. It was a relief because Rhaenyra wouldn't have to keep trying to force a gay man to be able to impregnate her.

And BECAUSE Laenor staunchly and steadfastly claimed those boys for his entire life, their 'illegitimacy' could *never* be proven. Which is why the greens had to try and use underhanded tactics to usurp Corlys' will while he and Viserys lay ill and dying.

Legally, the Velaryon boys are legitimate. Ancient Romans adopted heirs all the time. Empress Matilda's son was adopted as heir by the man who usurped her because he had no heirs of his own. All the Greens can do is spread rumors and whine about it, but it does them no favors.

And unlike Cersei's children, Rhaenyras boys both have Velaryon blood through her- the mothers of Aegon the first and Jaehaerys the first.

Unlike Cersei's children, Rhaenyra's children were also betrothed to those of direct Velaryon blood, thus reuniting the lines regardless- and elevating one Targaryen/Velaryon girl to queen of the seven kingdoms, and giving the other the position of Lady of the Tides.

And unlike Cersei's monstrous eldest, and puppeted youngest two, Rhaenyras children were acknowledged by both sides of the war to be well mannered, well educated, and capable. Corlys loved them in book and show. In show, Steve Toussaint has stated he wants Corlys to be 'out for blood' to avenge Luke- his favorite grandchild. Jace was described by the staunchest pro-green source of Fire and Blood to be a worthy heir to the iron throne.

If Vaemond had actually cared for VELARYON as a house he would've pushed for the claims of Laena's children. Instead, he was trying to usurp his brother's will while Corlys was too ill and weak to stop him. While his brother was fighting for his life, he decided that HE wanted to be head of House Velaryon. Wanted to be more than a second son.

And I hate to tell you this, but the way Ned went about the Cersei situation wasn't wise either. It got him killed and plunged the realm into war.

Rhaenyra and Cerseis situations cannot be compared with any real intelligent discussion. Context and nuance do in fact matter.

“Jace, Luke and Joffrey weren’t usurpers, Corlys named them his heirs!”

Okay but Robert Baratheon also named Joffrey his heir, because he thought he was his son. But that doesn’t make Joffrey any less of an usurper, does it? Pretty much anyone who has seen the show considers Joffrey an usurper, because everybody fucking knows he has no claim to the throne.

[spacerockfloater]

If I had a nickel for every time a black silver haired noble man, that has power over a region related to the sea, rightfully called out the white female main character for stealing from him while the narrative tried to convince us that he does this due to misogyny and he deserves to be punished for his insolence, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened both in ACOTAR and HOTD.

High Lord Tarquin and Lord Vaemond Velaryon you will always be famous.

[kass-of-the-midlands]

Prayer circle that Viserys actually fucking rots in hell for eternity. ​I don’t know who’s plan it was for the Velaryons to be Black but the writers backed themselves into a corner right at the beginning of HOTD.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

The truth about why Rhaenyra and Daemon remained on Dragonstone in between episodes 7 and 8

The few greenie supporters that like to comment on videos presenting the confrontation between Rhaenyra, Daemon and Alicent in episode 8, like to make completely false assumptions. They constantly accuse Rhaenyra and Daemon of not taking responsibility for the ill Viserys and not visiting him. They also accuse Rhaenyra of not stepping up and becoming Princess Regent during those years.

If these people were even remotely aware of the actual facts, they would know that Daemon and Rhaenyra had been exiled from King’s Landing after they married without the king’s permission (no doubt Otto and Alicent’s doing). The Hightowers wanted them away because they recognized what the marriage between Rhaenyra and Daemon signified for them - a very strong Targaryen alliance. So, they convinced Viserys to exile them from the capital.

That is why they stayed away for all these years. The time lapse between the two episodes does not directly explain that. They stayed away out of obligation, not choice.

The opportunity for the Hightowers to take control arrived. With Viserys incapacitated and Daemon and Rhaenyra exiled, Otto and Alicent took advantage and did things their way. One of the more obvious changes was the removal of Targaryen symbols in the Keep. Because they couldn’t add the Hightower symbols, they chose something close - symbols of the Seven. Alicent deemed it harmless, but is obviously a power move, and a treasonous one. They ruled for 7 years - and they weren’t very good at it, as proven in episode 9.

Rhaenyra and Daemon returned to King’s Landing out of obligation in the settlement of the succession of Driftmark (due to Corlys’ near death experience). They were summoned. Corlys wanted Lucerys to be his heir. He made that clear. It was his decision, and as the Lord of Driftmark, he has the right to choose his successor.

And now, taking advantage of Corlys’ weakened state, the Hightowers were conspiring with Vaemond to take control of Driftmark. Daemon and Rhaenyra had to return to protect Lucerys’ rightful claim.

Rhaenyra and Daemon knew about Viserys’ weakened state. The expressions on their faces when they talked about him on Dragonstone confirm that. But they didn’t expect to see him looking that badly, when they finally arrived in King’s Landing.

It is natural for Daemon and Rhaenyra to act suspicious of Alicent and Otto, and confront them the way they did.

Viserys was weak, constantly drinking something strange, Otto was acting as King in all but name, Alicent was replacing the Targaryen heraldry (and she doesn’t have any good explanation for it, not to mention that she is a consort. She has no authority to replace the heraldry of the ruling House)…anyone would have acted suspicious of all this. I would have directly accused Alicent and Otto of usurping the throne. And nobody could put it past them to poison Viserys and take over. Because Otto and Alicent are social climbers.

Rhaenyra and Daemon’s suspicions and accusations are completely justified. They are the only ones who truly loved Viserys.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

What I love about this moment is how much smarter Rhaenyra proved to be, despite the whole Hightower squad plotting against her.

The Hightowers thought that they would gain the Velaryon support by plotting with Vaemond of all people. They didn’t even consider Rhaenys, because they are misogynists.

But Rhaenyra knew. With Corlys out of the picture, Rhaenys called the shots, not Vaemond.

Game, set, match 🔥🖤

otto hightower and alicent hightower once they realize that the king is going to defend the rightful heir (and beloved child) so their plan to gain house velaryon's support went up in smoke

[darklinaforever]

What is your opinion on Daemon laughing at Laena's funeral? Why do you think he does it? Is it forgivable? Is it excusable? What do you think his daughters thought?

Are you aware that it was to distract attention from Vaemond who was literally taking advantage of the funeral of Laena, his own niece, with his hypocrisy, to point the finger at Rhaenyra and her children by accusing them of bastardy ? The real outrage and disrespect of doing this at your own niece's funeral ? Niece who loved Rhaenyra and Laenor ? The nerve to insinuate that in front of the king / Rhaenyra's father himself ? Rhaenyra herself and her children ? Risking bringing an unnecessary scandal to the forefront ? All this again at the funeral of his own niece ? And is that forgivable ? Is this excusable ?

Besides, none of this happened in the book. Vaemon isn't even Corlys' brother.

Thank you for showing that you are brainless and thoughtless with your skewed view of Daemon, trying hard to portray him as the worst monster who doesn't care about anything.

[lovl3igh]

people on twitter defending vaemond is too much for me today, cause wdym he was right arguing for driftmark when it was not his place to choose the heir, it was corlys' right

you could say that he wanted to protect his blood... except he was trying to take driftmark for himself. baela and rhaena were before him in the line of succession anyway and yet he said nothing about that. rhaena and luke were betrohed and it wasn't enough for him even tho this way throne would go to velaryon name AND blood. corlys wasn't even dead yet, there was no proof he won't make it and his brother already tried to steal his throne. it was always greed

[abla-soso]

I still can't fathom how season one of HOTD gave us a black man speaking truth to power against white royals aiming to steal his family's inheritance and the show framed his brave defiance as an outrageous offense that deserved death.

TB stans saw this racist and classist writing and they cheered.

Incredible.

"But Vaemond called the princess a whore!"

Daemon called several women whores, including the Queen herself. Why is his head still intact?

"But accusing a princess of adultery is high treason!"

So is lying about basterds being true-born heirs to the throne. Why is Rhaenyra's head still intact?