#anti otto hightower

[reignof-fyre]

"Rhaenyra was Maegor with Teats!"

"Daemon would be Maegor come again!"

Maegor's crimes:

Usurped the throne from the lawful, rightful heir

Murdered said rightful heir, committing Kinslaying

Rape, more than once

Killed every man, woman and child of House Harroway due to a rumor that his wife, Alys Harroway, had an affair

Ordered his nephew Viserys tortured, from which injuries he died

Put all the workers of the Red Keep's construction to death to keep the secret tunnels well, secret

Butchered 2,000 poor fellows who were, in actual fact, smallfolk at the wrong place at the wrong time

Raped an innkeeper's daughter

Murdered Lord Hayford, and many others

Ordered Rhaella, daughter of Aegon the Uncrowned and Rhaena the Black Bride, to be butchered

Rhaenyra's crimes

Being a woman in a man's world

Having the audacity to want to be heir and the power that comes with it

Allegedly sired bastards though there's no actual proof

Daemon's crimes

Despised the wife he was forced to marry at sixteen years old, who despised him just as much

Spent time with the smallfolk and drank and whored with them, treated them like people

Carried out lawful punishments as Lord Commander of the City Watch

Took a dragon egg without permission, which he returned when Viserys demanded it returned

Blood and Cheese

Aegon the Usurper's crimes

Usurped the lawful heir of the previous monarch

Demanded said heir and her whole family be killed when Rhaenyra wouldn't roll over and accept his "kind" terms

Slept with young girls, children really

Fondled any and every serving girl within reach, likely against their will

Bid in an auction for a young girl's maidenhead and won, siring children on her

Often found in Flea Bottom rat pits with young girls pleasuring him

Often watched "feral, starving children" fight one another for amusement

Threw a feast celebrating Prince Lucerys' cold blooded murder

Ordered every single ratcatcher in the city hanged, even those proven innocent

Allowed Cole to murder the Black supporters in the black cells, angering a great many lords of the realm

Murdered his own sister, committing Kinslaying

Murdered Maester Gerardys for no reason other than he "mistrusted" him

Aemond's crimes:

Used underhanded tactics to claim a dragon he knew his father would disapproved him trying to claim

Threatened the heirs heir and heir to driftmark with death

Committed treason by calling Jace and Luke bastards

Murdered Lucerys in cold blood, especially after he declared that "losing an eye was a fair trade for a dragon"

Is the reason the dance turned from a war of ravens to full on, bloody civil war

Butchered all of House Strong, men, women and children included

He took Alys Rivers as his spoils of war

Indiscriminately burned the Riverlands, murdering thousands of innocents

Daeron's crimes

Burned and entire town to the ground with his dragon, killing hundreds of innocent refugees

Ordered Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White murdered because they insulted him

Helaena's crimes

Supported her husband's usurpation of the throne, and being crowned queen herself

Not much else, but even if she declared herself neutral in the face of all of this, neutrality in the face of oppression means you side with the oppressor so...

[bietrofastimoff23]

There is one thing that bothers and confuses me. Otto and Alicent wanted Aegon to be seen as his father's heir, but they did nothing to maintain his reputation. On the contrary, they did everything to discredit him in the eyes of others. they slap him in public, call him a weakling, accuse him of idiocy, and sigh condescendingly at his words (kicking). It is not surprising that the council does not even show FORMAL respect for the king, because even his family does not try to do this.

Obviously they made a lot of mistakes on the way to the throne. I'm even not talking about political alliances or real preparations for rule, because they needed a puppet, not a king. Okay, whatever. But they had to maintain at least the illusion that Aegon was worthy of ruling. This is the least they could do to make the task easier, but they didn't even do that (although they also lack the intelligence to understand that if they talk calmly with Aegon without shouting and reproaches, he will do whatever he is asked...).

"in the world, we must defend our own" but not when you're Aegon Targaryen.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

I saw someone asking why Alicent Hightower and Criston Cole seem to be getting more hate than Joffrey Baratheon or Ramsay Bolton ever did.

The answer to that question is very simple.

Joffrey and Ramsay were just cartoonishly evil, so to speak. They were fun to watch and read about sometimes. They made good villains, and they knew that they were villains (never attempting to hide it).

Alicent and Cole (and Otto as well), on the other hand, are the kind of people you meet in real life as well. The kind of people you absolutely can’t stand for their false piety, their hypocrisy, their gold digging, their double-standards, their constant judgmental attitude, and cruel intentions.

In other words:

Joffrey and Ramsay are TV/book villains.

Alicent, Otto and Cole are real life villains.

[elycetellsall]

“if the king will not seek justice the queen will”

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[lingulaca]

"why does rhaenyra deserve to inherit the throne anyways? what did she ever do?" why must women always go above and beyond to prove themselves when all a man has to do is exist? why does the world deliberately not set women up for success and then go on to berate them for not being enough? why are you expecting a peaceful reign from rhaenyra during a literal war meanwhile everyone she loves is dying? what would you have her do?

[aurabora]

alicent is a “childbride at 15” and suddenly her growth is stunted forever and she can’t be held accountable for her actions but luke was “nearly a man” when he died at 13 so therefore he deserved to die and has to answer for the “sin” of taking his uncles eye out? mkay.

[maglors-grief]

I really need some people in this fandom to understand that Rhaenyra could have been the most perfect woman to ever exist and the Greens still would have usurped the throne anyways. Rhaenyra being a "whore", Rhaenyra having bastards, Rhaenyra being so-called "incompetent" were all excuses. If they really cared about any of that, why would they be trying to replace her with a man who sleeps around, has many bastards, and is definitely more incompetent than Rhaenyra ever was?

Like guys the Greens were pushing Aegon as heir before Rhaenyra even had children, before she was even married. It is stated in the book that Alicent and Rhaenyra got along fine until Aegon was born and Alicent immediately turned against her when Viserys didn't name their son his heir. They were already challenging her claim when she was just 10 years old.

Even if we're going by the show's canon, Otto Hightower was plotting to get a half Hightower/Targaryen on the throne before Rhaenyra was even named as heir.

The reasoning for why the Greens did what they did is really quite simple and realistic - they were greedy as hell. Some of their allies of course truly believed a son should come before a daughter but the main motive for the Hightowers was that they wanted someone of their blood to be placed on the throne.

They wanted their blood to be entwined with the most important family in Westeros. They wanted to create a new branch of Targaryens that were half Hightower. It wouldn't have mattered if Rhaenyra was flawed or if she was perfect, they still would have usurped the throne because she was in the way of their plan that was pretty much decades in the making and they would have used any excuse to justify their actions.

I'm just tired of the posts that say "well if Rhaenyra just took her position more serious and if she didn't do this or that then she would have been fine" like no she wouldn't have. You're completely missing the point if you believe this.

[dragonworshippersblog]

show rhaenys being reluctant to go to war after rhaenyra's throne was usurped and praising jaehaerys vs book rhaenys arguing that they should go to war with their dragons and insulting jaehaerys after he robbed her and her unborn child of their birthright. book rhaenys you are loved and missed

[lady-clouves]

I don’t understand how anyone can truly hate young Alicent Hightower. Like how are you gonna look at a young girl who’s practically being pimped out by her own father and then call her a cunt. Not only that but I remember when episode two came out people where not only at the characters throat but also the actress who played her.

And it’s just so heartbreaking because you can very clearly see that Alicent doesn’t want to be anywhere near that man. Every single time I saw her near him it looked like she was about to cry and just wanted to be somewhere else. Don’t even get me started about how heartbroken she looked when her father told her to where one of her DEAD mother’s dress to the King, she looked as if her world had just ended and I was surprised she didn’t have a full blown panic attack.

Then in episode two when Viserys told her not to tell Rhaenyra that she was visiting him, as if that’s not the #1 thing abusers tell their victims. And people had the audacity to say, “while why didn’t she just tell Rhaenyra?”. As if Alicent isn’t 15 years old, obviously she’s not gonna tell her friend when her KING and her father told her not to!

[rynnthefangirl]

Sometimes it becomes hard to hate Team Green when they do such a great job of causing pain and suffering to my least favorite character.

Aemond's a deranged bloodthirsty little psycho, but when he burnt his rapist usurper brother to a crisp?? Iconic.

Alicent is an obnoxious hypocrite, but now she's throwing her son under the bus and is gonna let him be beheaded? Wonderful! It's about time someone did that.

Otto is a manipulative traitor piece of shit, but him putting Aegon the Usurper in his place was one of the highlights of season 2.

Larys is a snake, but he's also gonna poison Aegon down the line, which will be doubly great in the show with Aegon being betrayed by the dude he thought was on his side.

Aegon stole his sisters crown, and all it will ever bring him is betrayal, heartbreak, suffering, agony, and death. As it should be.

[daenysthedreamer101]

I was listening to 'Bloodlines will burn' because it's so beautifuly haunting and sad and I like torturing myself and then, I came across these pictures while listening

.......😭 my beautiful queen! You did not deserve that! They caused her to lose something she always wanted - a daughter.

Look at her eyes in the first pic... 🙃🙃I'm fine. I'm fine. Why would I not be fine?

Visenya could've lived. She could've grown up to be a beautiful woman just like her mother. And she would've been a fierce dragon rider like her mother and father.

Daemon could've taught her High Valyrian and how to wield a sword.

Nyra would've loved dressing her up and doing her hair in the style of Old Valyria.

I know Jace, Luke, Joff would've adored her. They would chase her around the Painted Table and tickled her.

Baela and Rhaena would've been overjoyed to have another sister and girl in the family.

Baela would take her on a ride above Dragonstone on Moondancer.

Rhaena would've picked out the dragon egg that would lay in the crib of her little sister. Or maybe Rhaena would've given Visenya her own egg in the hope of it hatching and bonding with her.

Visenya was robbed of her life before it even started. She was robbed of knowing her parents and siblings. She was robbed of their love. And they were robbed of hers.

I will forever hold a grudge against TG, just for causing Nyra's miscarriage, not including all the other horrible shit they did to Rhaenyra and how they've treated her for years.

[bietrofastimoff23]

The fact that Gwayne worried about Aegon more than his own mother did... It would never have occurred to him to sell his nephew to the enemies, even if Aegon were literally on his deathbed.

Gwayne is an example of how you can enjoy the privileges of the position of your blood, but not be an asshole towards him (unlike the other two hightowers, who could only yell and beat).

i mean, yes, they did not meet in person, but Gwayne would have the good sense not to repeat the mistakes of his sister and father (say "no" to the toxic effects of the red keep). In fact, I'm sure they would have gotten along well under different circumstances.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

When I hear that the Greens are better rulers, I just gag.

Are we to forget how they stole all the gold from the treasury to finance their war and impoverished the Realm?

Otto and Alicent Hightower are both politically incompetent, whose main priority is the advancement of their own House.

You have Otto, the only Hand in history who managed to get fired twice.

You have Alicent, a greedy upstart, who only cares about herself.

You have Helaena just standing there.

And then you have the two “stars”, Aegon and Aemond, who share one brain cell. Aegon, an inadequate ruler (and that’s me being nice), clueless, gorging himself in fine wine and women. Aemond, a totally unstable psychopath, who believes that owning the biggest dragon in the world makes you invincible (he’s going to find out the hard way).

Oh, and let’s not leave out Ser Crispy Cole, the most shameless Kingsguard who has ever lived. For a man whose word is supposed to mean everything, it means literally nothing. Take a moment to compare him to Ser Erryk Cargyll. Yeah…

[elycetellsall]

“we are representatives of the throne, we have a duty”

[watcherintheweyr]

I saw a post earlier talking about how Alicent is not being rewarded by the patriarchy she has served so faithfully, and how the son she and Otto raised to the throne 'to protect his life in the way they knew they must' and I just... I have Thoughts so I'm gonna say em.

Alicent thought that by weaponizing the patriarchy against Rhaenyra and by serving it and it's goals, she'd be the exception to their sexism and disdain of women. She thought she'd be rewarded by signing with the oppressors and the oppressive system and it's values, and she's now facing the reality and the consequences of what's happened. And she's also getting a taste of the undermining and humiliation that she turned against Rhaenyra for years.

Honestly the fact that she even has a seat in the Small Council makes no sense at this point - it barely made sense with Viserys, given Alicent's views on women having power. That they should not have the power but should 'gently guide' those that do. In truth it's tragic irony and yet somehow comedic, seeing her realize that she will not be rewarded or exalted in Any way for all she's sacrificed and betrayed.

But also: Otto knew that Rhaenyra wouldn't turn on her siblings. He never really believed she would kill them. Those were lies he fed to Alicent that she in turn poisoned her children with in order to serve his ambition: which was originally to have his blood ruling on the throne but has become to have his blood on the throne as a puppet-king that he can control.

The MOMENT they moved forward with the usurpation, Otto attempted to have Rhaenyra and her entire family- including two toddlers- assassinated- the very thing he claimed Rhaebyra would do. Because he was never horrified by such a concept, and he never genuinely thought Rhaenyra was the sort to do such a thing. But he absolutely is- and entirely unprovoked. And yet somehow Alicent is shocked by this- somehow she never realized that to 'secure his succession, Aegon and his faction would have to do to the true heir and her family what she thought the true heir would do- which is either incredibly poor writing, or just blind, willful ignorance of what a usurper would have to do to stay secure from rival claimants.

Otto suggested Rhaenyra as heir to further distance Daemon from the throne (which was due to his hatred of Daemon, his knowledge that Daemon saw hom as he was, and his.. greed and possessiveness of Viserys, which was referenced now on s2e2 in how Otto spoke of Viserys, the man he puppeted, controlled, and manipulated for decades with total reverence.)- and because he thought she would be immediately displaced once his daughter gave Viserys the son that Aemma was killed for.

He never thought that Viserys would seriously hold her as his heir- and never thought she would be so difficult to manage or control, either. We see the horrified realization in his eyes in episode 2 when she shows him up at Dragonstone- that she is actually something formidable, that she just succeeded at something he did not- and saved his life from Caraxes in the same breath. That she, a girl, was taking this role as heir seriously, and that she might actually be able to play the part, and do it well.

So he made a new plan- to fill Alicent's mind with poison and lies about her once best friend, to ensure she would turn her children against Viserys' heir, and thus help him to further his goals.

But he miscalculated. Deeply. Because now Aegon's jealousy, insecurity, and hatred are running unchecked as he sits as the most powerful man in the realm. Now his grandson's depravity guides his choices, and Aegon's hatred and jealousy of Rhaenyra, his desperation for love and attention, and the power cirrently goong to his head... All are far stronger than any respect he may have once held for his grandsire- and his mother.

She betrayed and destroyed herself and Rhaenyra for nothing. She will never be rewarded for what Otto made her suffer or for what she did to disparage and demean Rhaenyra in the eyes of the men of the realm. She has served her use, as far as the men she thought to guide are concerned.