#pro joffrey velaryon

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[bee-unknown]

as someone who was adopted i HATEEE the conversation surrounding the velaryon kids because i never felt like I really fit in (through no fault of my adoptive family, I just had issues after being shuttled around the foster system), I always felt like I wasn't as good as my mums "real" (biological) family, I never felt like I was truly her daughter, I was genuinely surprised to see i was given an equal share in her will as my sisters, the idea these kids aren't really laenors and not really rhaenys and corlys' family and have no right to family echoes so much of how I felt. and it's not even my own feelings anymore. People have been saying it for 2 years. I cant enjoy this fandom without seeing people questioning whether or not they should be considered part of the targ family.

and yeah I know its fiction but this series isn't made as an escape, its a commentary. which is why so much is based off current politics and historical conflicts. its made to reflect the real world. and all I see is my own feelings of inadequacy reflected.

(on anon because I don't want to be attacked by rabid TG fans)

It took me a while to organize my thoughts to answer and I still don't think this is a good enough answer

But I think this all comes from that believe that an adopted child can't be as loved as a biological one

That's why they think that Daemon hates the Velaryon boys or that Laenor's side of the family has no right to mourn Lucerys

Add a sprinkle of resentment to that mix because TG (who are the picture of a nuclear family) are constantly betraying each other, and TB (who are messy as fuck ngl) are a united front

And you have bastardphobia at its finest

The Velaryon boys are all amazing and very loved, so those who hate them can only use their parentage as justification for their hatred towards them, using bastard as an insult

They forget that this shit affects real people, that their "uh they are not a real family because they are not related 😵‍💫" affects real people who "unluckily" don't have a nuclear family with a biological mom and a biological dad

[thecountesstribe]

I thought you guys were kidding but people really believe those boys would've been Laenor's complexion? As Op said it's not outrageous for the boys to favor their white side more. Those children could've swung either way or fallen somewhere in between. I thought we came to a mutual understanding that the legitimacy of those boys were questioned because of their hair color and the fact that they look like Harwin? Like biblical times set aside there is no way people actually thought that having a half white parent and a fully white parent would've gotten them something else.. 😂😂😂😂 I'm creased here man. The writers made the focus point their legitimacy, which also plays a major part in Rhaenyra's right to the ascension of her throne. It wouldn't have been questioned as much if they had just given Rhaenys her brown hair like in the books. Well it still would've been questioned cause y'know, THEY LOOK LIKE HARWIN "BREAKBONES" STRONG. 😭😭😭😭😭😂😂😂 So drawing comparisons to Rhaena and Baela is just some of you grasping at straws. In their case they favored their mother's side more. They could've also come out looking like Daemon more as well. The twins are mixed. It was confirmed Laenor is not biologically those boys father ( he's still very much their Dad though, so before the select few start talking greasy, watch your mouths). Some people never cease to amaze me. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I need this laugh today though, thank you guys.

“White bastard children” like you’re aware Laenor is half white, right? If you didn’t fall into the idiocy that was the show runners being so hellbent on using race & the appearance of Rhaena + Baela as being the ‘confirmation’ that the Velaryon boys are not Laenor’s then perhaps you might be able to use your brain for two seconds and realise that the appearance of mixed race children is a SPECTRUM and if Rhaenyra and Laenor actually did have kids together, then yeah, they might’ve come out looking like their cousins but, they also might’ve come out looking WHITE because Rhaenyra is white and Laenor is half white.

[scentedmiracleobject]

Aemond learns that Daemon sent assassins after him

Aemond in the brothel:

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Rhaenyra’s children are the best. All of them. They are of pure heart and their light shines through them.

Jacaerys alone is worth more than all of Alicent’s sons put together.

And let’s not use the “Rhaenyra’s sons had a father in their lives” excuse, because it couldn’t be more wrong.

Laenor was never around. Harwin couldn’t be seen looking after them. And Daemon took over when they were already grown (and he’s not one to inspire kindness or humility, let’s face it. Bravery, strength and fierceness, yes. But nothing mushy).

Rhaenyra alone was in charge of her children’s education, and Alicent alone was in charge of the education of her kids.

There is no debate on who is the better mother (neither in canon, nor in fanon).

[borislava17]

Recently some green defenders have been a bit too funny and then say something along the lines of ‘’have you read the books?’’ . I have and yes Alicent is an abuser, manipulator and a villain. They changed her so much in the show, but in the books she is 19 and Viserys is 27 and she married him OUT OF AMBITION. She wanted to marry him, give him a son and plant it on the throne. Because this woman (she’s over 18, like literally a woman) bullied and mentally abused 8 year old Rhaenyra. She is evil and even tho the maesters are green biased and try to make out Alicent to be better and demonize Rhaenyra, her treatment of Rhaenyra was never denied. Like come on Rhaenyra probably just wanted to play with dolls and Alicent was calling that child a whore. Rhaenyra hasn’t had a moment of peace since Alicent came in the picture. I appreciate her as a villain in the books, because she basically wasn’t this innocent and poor girl we had in the show, she is purely evil and had one goal and she achieved it. But all the people who make out Rhaenyra to be the bad one (a victim and she is not perfect, because PERFECT VICTIMS DON’T EXIST) and always baby and defend Alicent blindly, no you are not cute for doing this and no Alicent will never be iconic. Not in the books and not in the show.

[watcherintheweyr]

Op is agonizingly correct, but also, furthermore

Do yall realize how *dangerous* of a precedent that Alicent (and Ned) almost set here?

They nearly set the precedent that anyone, from any house, can question, undermine, and forcibly change the succession **of a House that is not their own** purely based upon a child's appearance.

Let that sink in and then realize the absolute disaster that would erupt. Sansa or Robb could have been questioned by the Boltons and disinherited- they look more Tully than Stark so perhaps Lady Stark strayed! Duncan Targaryen, with his dark hair, could have been dragged from the succession before his untimely death, all because he looked nothing like his Targaryen father. Alyssa Targaryen who was born blonde with one green and one violet eye- from a white haired and lavender eyed father, and a blonde and blue eyed mother.

Like. This is not a smart precedent. There's a reason Ned failed and the consequences of the war of 5 Kings played out how it did. This is an absolutely irresponsible, dangerous precedent, and it has nothing to do with 'goodness' or 'morals' like Alicent loved to claim of herself.

It was weaponizing the sexism and abuse of women against Rhaenyra (and yeah, against Cersei, even though in her case it WAS correct- but remember that Ned *knew* these allegations would likely mean Robert would kill **all of the children.** Even Tommen and Myrcella.) And it was petty jealousy and it could have torn the realm apart just as effectively as the Dance did.

The Greens and Hightowers- and yes, Vaemond- had absolutely no business sticking their noses into Viserys and Corlys' wills. If Vaemond gave a fuck about Velaryon blood he would've championed Laenas daughers-

Except that disinheriting those boys, book AND show, would've fucked Baela and Rhaena over as well. Baela, due to Rhaenyra (and in book it's Rhaenyra and Laena who settled these betrothals) would have been queen of the seven kingdoms. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides. Velaryon blood would have flourished on the Throne and Driftmark. Not to mention, that regardless- Rhaenyras boys have Velaryon blood, as well as Baratheon ties, even without Laenor. Aegon the Conqueror's mother was a Velaryon, as was Jaehaerys' mother. Orys Baratheon was the half brother of the Conqueror, and Jocelyn and Boremund Baratheon were Jaehaerys the First's half siblings.

The attempts to disinherit Rhaenyras boys were borne of cruelty, jealousy, and greed, and by upholding Alicents rumors or spouting them as truth- you're stating you're okay with external houses pushing to disinherit children they have no ties to, children that are repeatedly and firmly claimed by all ACTUALLY RELEVANT parties, simply based on their coloration and bone structure.

Like... please gods sit and think about that for ten fucking seconds.

a rumored bastard and a proven, disinherited, legally illegitimate recognized bastard are not the same.

Rhaenyra’s sons are rumored bastards, i know the show has a lot of team green stans feeling bold but just as in the books, they are never legally considered bastards in the show either. they are speculated to be via their physical features and Laenor’s apparent sexuality, but since Laenor and the KING (btw Westeros is a absolute monarchy, meaning the king IS law) both claim all three boys as legitimate heirs, unless someone demands a medieval dna test, those kids are legally Laenor’s true sons.

this is apparently a very hard concept to understand for some, hell even Alicent in the show says something like “we can all tell” which fair point, but that is not proof enough. looks, accusations, and rumor are not the same as actual proof of adultery or bastardy.

someone i was having a “discussion” with used Joffrey as an example to point out a flaw in my logic, but ultimately proved my point. Joffrey was a rumored bastard. Ned himself had no more proof than Alicent does, just hair color and a hunch, so Joffrey was never legally disinherited from the line of succession. I hate to defend either of these men but King Robert never publicly disowned him and called him bastard, which is why Joffrey ascended to the Iron Throne. now the rumors did hurt, and caused huge political issues leading to the War of 5 Kings, which is exactly why Alicent and Team Green is so insistent that Rhaenyra’s children are illegitimate, they know they cannot legally or physically prove her children are bastards, especially when Laenor and the King are claiming them are true born, but they can spread the rumor and call into question Rhaenyra’s honesty and morality. think episode 8 when team green takes their chance with Vaemond to attempt a coup of sorts for the Driftmark Throne, why would the succession of Driftmark need to be settled if Rhaenyra’s sons are true born? why would Alicent / Otto need to make this decision in place of the sick king and mia lord of tides who both had already been stating Luke would inherit for years. it’s all apart of the scheme to tarnish Rhaenyra’s reputation as Vaemond has no other proof either, and promptly loses his head (both metaphorically and literally) by calling the recognized heir to the throne a whore and her children bastards with no proof in front of the whole court.

it is a political scheme on both sides, Alicent cannot prove anything, and Rhaenyra cannot disprove the rumors no matter how many times they are claimed as true born sons. Rhaenyra has to live in the comfort the law gives her, as legally her sons are seen as legitimate, and thus legally they are protected. and from an unbiased pov with both in universe and historical references, those kids might be bastards in actually but not legally.

Rhaenyra goes through hell to keep her children legally protected, not only for their sake but for hers because should the truth come out both her and Laenor would be seriously punished, i wouldn’t go as far as executed but that would depend on if Viserys was old and bed ridden or dead. which is why im making this incredibly long post repeating myself in every point. you can argue all day about Rhaenyra’s children and their parentage but i am making this to make it clear that her children are not *legally* bastards by Westeros law. in order for Jace, Luke, and Joffrey to be illegitimate bastards Laenor, Rhaenyra, Harwin, and/or Viserys would have to publicly acknowledge them as such and disinherit them. no, Laenor and Viserys dying do not magically make Rhaenyra’s children legal bastards either. they would, again, need to be claimed and proven as such and disinherited.

and at the end of it all, true or not true, the rumors made a lasting impact on the story. so much so this fandom is still debating this topic, and frankly i am dreading the season 2 release when all the bad takes and bad faith arguments start up again.

anyway other famous rumored bastards are in Targ history are:

Maegor

Daeron II

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

F&B: Here is the story of a mother who loses her children one by one. She loses her only daughter before she can hold her, her sweet Lucerys is eaten by his uncle's dragon, her baby Viserys is lost while being sent away to safety, her heir Jacaerys dies trying to save him, her brave Joffrey falls to his death.

At first she collapses, she almost gives up, too grief-sick and terrified of losing anymore children to take action. Her heir steps up to be her strength, to be diplomatic and meritocratic and conciliatory and hopeful.

With his loss she hardens, her fears burning away, leaving her rage and hatred, her heart where her sons used to be turning to stone. Then she slips into paranoia, determined to eliminate any threat to her remaining children, alienating allies in a time of crisis, destroying Jace's legacy in the process... only to lose another child anyway.

Then she breaks. She clutches her last son tightly. She sells her crown to keep him safe. She despairs and weeps. Finally she clings to one last hope, one last chance of strength - a dragon. The last thing she hears is her child screaming for her to flee.

Condal, taking notes from Benioff and Weiss: What if this crazy selfish bitch drank her own Kool-Aid, became a religious fanatic, and starting herding people en masse to be burnt and eaten alive?

Condalstans: "ooh A+ character development! After all, when a Targaryen is born the Gods flip a coin-"

[mhsdatgo]

Always hated the way according to TB I'm supposed, as a woman, to root for Rhaenyra "Mary Sue" Targaryen because she's a Valyrian woman and can't do no wrong. Otherwise I'm framed as a misogynist, an enabler, a rape apologist, every name in the book. As if this isn't the same girl who coerced her bodyguard because her erectile disfunction uncle didn't wanna bang her after leaving her in a brothel, naked and on plain sight for any kind of perverted brute. As if this isn't the same girl who weaponized both her and her best friend's trauma to twist a truth about something she very willingly did that could've had her disowned if her father was anyone else other than the weak ass neglectful rapist pedo father she had instead.

This is the same girl who ignored and mistreated Alicent when all she did was convince Viserys to allow her privileges she never had, like choosing a husband. Like it or not, it was Alicent the one who gave gave and gave, and Rhaenyra the one who took took and took and even MOCKED, time and time again. The same girl who acted like a victim when the girl she called her literal best friend (only when it benefitted her) was getting maritally R*PED in the next room by her crusty ass father. She never tried connecting with her siblings because they were Alicent's children. Not because their minds were poisoned, not because they were apparently bitter towards her. Because they weren't her mother's children. Same as Viserys. Guess the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

I'm supposed to root for a woman who doesn't do one single thing for the claim she feels so entitled to (who was purely based on Viserys' grief and guilt for Aemma)? I'm supposed to root for a woman who brings back to the line of succession the same man everyone wanted far from the line of succession? I'm supposed to root for the woman who wants to be the exception, not give possibilities to other women like an ACTUAL feminist does? She usurps her stepdaughters' claims in favor of her obviously bastard children, and no, betrothing the fpur of them isn't the same. If they die, the girls' claim dies with them, and guess what, exactly that happened.

No, I will not root for the woman who wanted a teenager's head because she was black and because she couldn't cope with the fact that "hEr pRiNcE" didn't love her, only what her title could offer. Or the woman who put a price on a 6yo's and a 2yo's head simply because they were her brother's children, thereby proving what Criston said about what was needed for Jace to raise to power after his mother. She even denied the request of multiple older daughters/sisters who rightfully wanted to lead their houses, with the excuse that the relam would be far too 'imbalanced'. Girl, are you that dense? There's the smallfolk getting eaten and burned and taxes by your dragon and your entire family fighting wars and dying left and right and you think two women ruling their houses will destabilize the realm?

Rhaenyra is many things, but feminist is not among them, no matter how much you cry and whine about it. Yes, I'm aware that no woman in asoiaf or f&b can be described as feminist. But the convinction (and delusion) that Rhaenyra is, without a shadow of doubt, is mindblowing. She's arguably worse than any of said women combined.

No, I don't feel represented or uplifted by a tyrant, classist, racist, hypocritical, spoiled kinslayer with god complex because she's albino and has a pet dragon as spoiled and as useless as her. Sorry not sorry.

[the-witch-of-woods-beyond]

don’t know why so many team green stans are dying over the fact that rhaenyra’s sons are bastards 😱😱😱 when it wasn’t even confirmed in the books and when being a bastard in westeros is just a state of legality. if legitimised, they would have every right to their family’s titles - hence gendry and jon being legitimised and having claims to the throne and winterfell. legit every single person in that show has legitimised jace as rhaenyra’s heir and referred to him as such. their grandfather corlys, their father laenor, their other grandfather the literal KING accepted them and threatened death and dismemberment to anyone who didn’t do the same, their MOTHER rhaenyra. jace has every right to ascend the throne because his mother is the rightful queen and he is her rightful heir.

[watcherintheweyr]

Except unlike Robert Baratheon, Laenor and Corlys were aware of the truth and claimed the boys anyways. For Laenor it was a relief, seeing as he and Rhaenyra had tried and were unable to conceive, but both were aware the throne and the House Velaryon needed heirs. It was a relief because Rhaenyra wouldn't have to keep trying to force a gay man to be able to impregnate her.

And BECAUSE Laenor staunchly and steadfastly claimed those boys for his entire life, their 'illegitimacy' could *never* be proven. Which is why the greens had to try and use underhanded tactics to usurp Corlys' will while he and Viserys lay ill and dying.

Legally, the Velaryon boys are legitimate. Ancient Romans adopted heirs all the time. Empress Matilda's son was adopted as heir by the man who usurped her because he had no heirs of his own. All the Greens can do is spread rumors and whine about it, but it does them no favors.

And unlike Cersei's children, Rhaenyras boys both have Velaryon blood through her- the mothers of Aegon the first and Jaehaerys the first.

Unlike Cersei's children, Rhaenyra's children were also betrothed to those of direct Velaryon blood, thus reuniting the lines regardless- and elevating one Targaryen/Velaryon girl to queen of the seven kingdoms, and giving the other the position of Lady of the Tides.

And unlike Cersei's monstrous eldest, and puppeted youngest two, Rhaenyras children were acknowledged by both sides of the war to be well mannered, well educated, and capable. Corlys loved them in book and show. In show, Steve Toussaint has stated he wants Corlys to be 'out for blood' to avenge Luke- his favorite grandchild. Jace was described by the staunchest pro-green source of Fire and Blood to be a worthy heir to the iron throne.

If Vaemond had actually cared for VELARYON as a house he would've pushed for the claims of Laena's children. Instead, he was trying to usurp his brother's will while Corlys was too ill and weak to stop him. While his brother was fighting for his life, he decided that HE wanted to be head of House Velaryon. Wanted to be more than a second son.

And I hate to tell you this, but the way Ned went about the Cersei situation wasn't wise either. It got him killed and plunged the realm into war.

Rhaenyra and Cerseis situations cannot be compared with any real intelligent discussion. Context and nuance do in fact matter.

“Jace, Luke and Joffrey weren’t usurpers, Corlys named them his heirs!”

Okay but Robert Baratheon also named Joffrey his heir, because he thought he was his son. But that doesn’t make Joffrey any less of an usurper, does it? Pretty much anyone who has seen the show considers Joffrey an usurper, because everybody fucking knows he has no claim to the throne.

[nikosdaydreams]

Team Black I'm so sorry but can we stop going like "☝️🤓 erm acshually the blacks won because rhaenyra and daemons son became king L greens jumphaera nee ner nee ner" every time there's a discussion on Rhaenyra's or Aegon's deaths? Not only is it an exhausting and weird argument, but it's also simply not true.

Yes, a line carrying on is very important in ASOIAF, but at the end of the day, nobody won. As important as it is, it does not mean victory.

Rhaenyra still died thinking her son's death was next. As a mother, how could you feel victorious knowing your young child is most likely days from being killed? And that's without considering the fact that three of her children are already dead.

Aegon only made it six months after her before getting poisoned, having seen Sunfyre die, having mourned both his sons, his sister-wife and his brothers, having been burned and disabled by dragonfire.

Alicent began the war with four children (that she never asked for, mind you) and ended it with none, spending her final days in heartbreak and madness.

Aegon III was known for being extremely depressed throughout his reign. Who wouldn't be, after watching his mother be killed so violently and horribly? They say in his reign, Aegon did not even smile, and it was in his reign that dragons fell out of favour in the Targaryen dynasty.

Jaehaera was also known to be a sad, quiet child. She had watched as her twin brother's head was struck from his body. She had likely heard of her younger brother's violent and inhumane death at Bitterbridge. She hadn't been there when her mother could take it no more and jumped to her death. Her father was poisoned just when they thought he had won. She was then married off at 8 to the son of the man who had ordered the death of Jaehaerys, the son of the woman who had a massive hand in the death of Maelor, and by extension, her mother. Her grandmother, her last living relative, then tried to get her to kill her husband, after which she was placed under house (room?) arrest and she likely never saw her again. Even if she wasn't overwhelmed with grief and pain (which she definitely would be), she wasn't even queen for long enough to make much of a difference.

Rhaenyra and Daemon are dead. Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron are dead. Alicent is insane. Otto is dead. Jace, Luke and Joffrey are dead. Jaehaerys and Maelor are dead. Rhaenys is dead. Criston Cole is dead. Aegon III is scarred for life. Jaehaera is also scarred for life. Viserys II is nowhere to be found. Pretty much all of the dragons are dead.

The point I'm making is, nobody wins. All of them either died in fear and horror and fire and blood or survived in horrific mental and/or physical pain for the rest of their lives.

"There are no winners. Only survivors." - Haymitch Abernathy

[starryrosebud]

Sometimes i love my country

Translation “ The city of Coliza stands with the Team Black . We do not recognize green usurpers. Long live the rightful queen Rhaenyra Targaryen!”

[thephantomofthenight]

Rhaenyra could literally be described as the most entitled, boring, victim complex having, spoiled brat, in all of Westeros. (She’s not… but TG foams out the mouth while thinking it)

But you want to know what she’s not?

A rapist.

I rest my case.

All hail Queen Rhaenyra, First of Her Name!

[darklinaforever]

Daemon love his stepsons

[dragonworshippersblog]

i was talking to a person on twitter and she said that when daemon decapitated vaemond that was the proof that the green would not have been safe cause "he died for telling the truth". aegon is a rapist, this is also a truth. so a lord or a lady can accuse him in front of the whole court of forcing himself on the maids without being at best thrown in a cell? Aemond is a kinslayer, so a lady or a lord can insult him in front of everyone and have and have no repercussions? this speech is applicable to all members of the royal family (and sure to the most important house too), but of course this is a problem only when rhaenyra benefits from it.