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wilcze-kudly · 15 days ago

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your analyses of Lin came to mind the other day when I saw someone post about how “Lin should be able to smack Korra at least once.” And like. It’s not just one post, it seems to be a common ‘jokey’ attitude in the fandom, and…it’s really interesting how much the fandom loves Lin acting violent and aggressive towards everyone - particularly against Korra, who acts in a similar “aggressive” manner but not nearly as shitty (imo), but the fandom seems to despise her for it.

So I was wondering if you have any thoughts specifically on Lin and Korra’s relationship? Both in canon and how the fandom treats them?

Oh yeah, I think I've seen that post! I've honestly been wanting to do more Lin metas but have been holding off because back when I posted a lor of Suyin defences I got a not insignificant amount of nasty anonymous asks, and I know that Lin is beloved by the fandom so while I make my passive aggressive comment from time to time, actually dwelling on the subject is a bit of a gambit.

Honestly, it's not even that I dislike Lin. I actually enjoyed her character a fair amount when I first watched the show and was totally on board with the fandom loving this character. But eventually I got so tired of the constant takes about how everyone in Lin's life is soooo mean to her and how she never did anything wrong and she's secretly just a lil bean , she's just a biy grumpy guys.

And, oh, the jokey comments about how Lin should be allowed to smack Korra, a teen, who, in my opinion gets smacked around fairly enough in the show. Or how she should be allowed to curbstomp Tenzin, despite us knowing very little about their relationship other than the fact that Lin atatcked his house and misused her power as a police officer to terrorise his new partner. Or how Suyin, a woman who has gone through so much to change and become a better person and still keeps ger heart open for those who hurt her, should die or be killed.

Like yeah, they're jokes, but they speak to how the fandom quickly takes Lin's side in most situations, even when there is more nuance to the situation. I think taht due to tlok having such a large amount of violence and fight scenes ans perhaps due to the personality of Korra herself, the fandom has normalised Lin's aggressive and often physical behaviour. And because most of the characters are teens, Lin's immaturity as a person doesn't stick out too much.

But Lin isn't a teen, like Korra or Mako. She's a 50+ year old woman and a fucking cop at that. She should know better. I think one of my favourite questions Lin's character mames me ask is: "how long can you cling to your trauma before its your responsibility to strive to do better?".

This isn't to say that Lin is a horrible person. I'd actually say she's a pretty good person. It's obvious she cares and she can try to be empathetic when the chips are down. But her lack of emotional maturity makes it difficult for her to actually act on her feelings when not in a life or death situation.

Ultimately this is what I like about Lin as a character, her duality. A very protective and thoghtful person, who has stagnated in a shell of anger and aggression.

And I think Lin's relationship with Korra ilustrates this duality perfectly.

I do enjoy Lin and Korra's arguments due to their chemistry and the excellent voice acting. But like it is still an adult yelling at and holding an actual grudge against a 17 year old. Who is already under a huge amount of stress.

I also think that we often forget that in her tiffs with Lin, Korra often starts off with a suprising amount of calmness and grace. She often attempts to actively connect with Lin and express her point through conversation, despite this being sonething Korra markedly struggles with.

Korra : But there were some thugs threatening a helpless shopkeeper, and I had it ... Lin: [Aggressively.] Can it! You should have called the police and stayed out of the way. Korra: [Slightly pleading tone.] But I couldn't jut sit by and do nothing. It's my duty to help people. See, I'm the Avatar.

[...]

Korra: Wait, Beifong? Lin Beifong? [Excitedly.] You're Toph's daughter! Lin: [Seriously.] What of it? Korra: [A hint of amusement suppressed in her tone.] Well then, why are you treating me like a criminal? Avatar Aang and your mother were friends. They saved the world together.

Through the first season, we're lead to infer that Lin's unfounded animosity towards Korra has something to do with her grudge against Tenzin. I can see this not only due to Tenzin's association witg Korra as her teacher and the son of the previous Avatar, but also due to some similarities between Korra ans Tenzin. They're both people saddled with a major responsibility and legacy, who struggle with forming their own identity due to that legacy. Plus, the comic we got about young Tenzin is essentially 1 to 1 Korra's first day in republic city.

Side note: can we stop demonising Tenzin for leaving Lin? I'm pretty sure it's not confirmed that Tenzin left her purely because he needed to have children. And honestly if after he broke up with Lin, she damaged his home, used her posution to terrorise his new partner, and held a grudge for 11+ years, I'm honestly not to sure what to think about their relationship pre breakup. ESPECIALLY with how willy nilly tlok plays with female on male abuse. No, I'm not saying Lin is an abusor, but there may be other factors we need to consider. I mean Lin does outwardly laugh and sympathise with Korra throwing Mako's desk across the room which is the Makorra abuse moment ™️

Though I also adore the implication in B3 that Lin is also reminded of Suyin by Korra. This also is a comparison that makes sense. Korra and Su were both young, rebellious women who had to leave home to find themselves. Both had tendency to be sarcastic and were opinionated and had a habit of defying authority etc.

And I think this may be even more of a reason why Lin has such an aggresive vendetta against Korra and also why she's so controlling in the later seasons. Particularly when she gets on Korra's ass at the party and says that Korra is "nothing special" feels targeted towards Lin feeling like Suyin got special treatment.

Lin being controlling towards Korra can also be seen as her trying to compensate for when she tried to similarly control Su, but Suyin ended up defying her. (While I see a lot of people bring up parentification between Lin and Su, I'll lean more towards it being a very intense rivalry)

Either way, Korra reminds Lin of people who have hurt her and the hurt she seems to cling to in some parody of comfort in familiarity.

This is one of the most visible patterns in Lin I see. Her absolute abhorrence of changing her mindset. She holds a grudge against Tenzin for over 11 years. She holds a grudge against Su and Toph for longer than that. She is so horrifically resistant to even touching the idsa that Suyin had changed as a person. And even after her and Su make up, the moment the opportunity arrises, Lin is back to typecasting Suyin as the bad guy.

People say that Korra was too harsh in The Metal Clan when she called Lin out.

Korra : Su's right. You're never going to change. You're always gonna be a bitter, lonely woman.

And yeah, it was objectively an incredibly mean thing to say and Korra was quite out of line. But she's not wrong. We see Lin struggle with making human connections, we've deduced that her grip on the past makes her hold grudges against people she's never met. We see her be immature, aggressive and emotionally closed off. If she were a healthy individual outside of Zaofu, I would encourage her distancing herself from Suyin. But clearly whatever coping mechanism Lin has is leaving her pushing people away and treating teenagers like her peers.

Like something clearly needs to change.

And I think that's another reason why Korra and Lin are such a fun duo. Because Korra goes through so mucuhchange herself. She shanges the world, she changes the lives of her friends, she changes herself.

And that's something Lin desperately needs and yet fears all the same. This also makes it even more interesting that Aiwei, a member of the Red Lotus who embody that "change" concept was a vital part of Lin and Suyin begining to reconcile.

And I think Lin knows this, to some extent. She knows her coping mechanisms are flawed, but she doesn't want to acknowledge this. But I need to talk about Lin's babystep trail of an arc in a different post.

I was gonna say that Lin and Korra are also similar but honestly other than their tempers and tendency to terrorise their tallass ex boyfriends, there isn't much there.

I still find Lin and Korra's relationship to have some sweet moments. I loved Lin and Korra's moment of kinship afterthey both lost their bending, how gently Korra grabbed Lin after she passed out in Zaofu, how Lin helped Korra get up the stairs after she was paralysed.

I think that one of the reasons they argue so much in B3 partocularly is because they care for each other quite a bit. They just embody two polar opposites. Korra- change and danger. Lin- stagnation and protection. Of course they'll fight.

----

I don't exactly like how fandom treats Korra and Lin's relationship because it always feels ao watered down. This kinda extends to the entire Krew too. The 'Lin is like the Krew's mom' thing. Because on the jokey surface, yeah, i see it. Female authority figure who makes sure they don't get into trouble. Plus fandom has a tendency to forcefully assign cishet traditional family dynamics to found family.

But on a deeper level, acting as if Lin were a mother to the Krew is in my opinion, a bit of an insult to mothers everywhere. Because Lin acts less like an adult and more like a... slightly older teen? Which makes sense, we see that very little has changed in how Lin approaches young people since she was 22. She treats the Krew like peers, bickering with them and making snide comments, but then pulls the authority figure when she wants something. That's like the worst type of adult.

[This is ironic because my mom is actually very much like Lin and this is probably why I gave her so much of a pass when I watched tlok the first time]

Lin is a big sister/aunt figure to most of the Krew at best. Maybe except Mako but he has his own demons and is making himself a son figure whether Lin likes it or not.

But Korra is basically Lin's stand-in for her sister and they both act like it too. They act like me and my sister tbh. And Asami and Bolin barely interact with Lin anyway. There's more ground to posit Su as Bolin's potential mother figure!

Lin is a fascinating character to me, but fandom tropes have sorta ruined her for me. I came into the fandom really liking her character but ended up sorta jaded to seeing the same questionable takes about her over and over again. It just makes me see how little her potential is explored in the show. The writers failed Lin, not by not allowing her to 'win' against Su and Korra and Tenzin and whoever. They failed her by not giving her the storyline she needed. The storyline for which the main catalyst, Korra already was at the centre of the board. They half assed Lin's storyline and now literally every character who so much as looked at Lin has to pay the price.

[Ooh wow symbolism Lin glaring at Zaofu, Suyin's home, but actually glaring at her own reflection.]

I now realise that I have gone on for way too long and got hotrifically off topic, but I hope I have explained at least a few if my thoughts?

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wilcze-kudly · 2 months ago

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Suyin wasn't "coerced" to commit a crime, neither did she want to take herself out of the situation. She wanted to get her friends out of paying for their crimes because she's spoiled and entitled.

She didn't "have" to travel the world, she was sent to family members to take her away from a criminal and endangering environment, and she decided to escape because she's too much of a pick me girl to stay with the so called family "that didn't show her affection". To be honest, you speak of her as some kind of adult avatar-styled Rapunzel, instead of a teenager who deserved to be reprimanded.

She did turn her life around, and kudos to the creators for showing that. No one can say that her story and background is boring by any chance.

She, however, is not the most likeable character out there to a big part of the fandom, but I seriously doubt someone is taking it as seriously as you seem to do. Just chill.

Istg this happens almost everytime I post something mildly touching on the fact that Suyin deserves compassion too. Though you may be the same anon who blew up my inbox a while back so it might just be you.

I've always found the disdain we have for "troubled teens" upsetting because usually, when a teenager "acts out", there's more of a reason behind it that just "ooh they're spoilt or entitled".

[Trigger warning for self harm and suicidal ideation mentions]

Like, I was a very difficult teen back in the day. I argued with my parents, even got into physical altercations, skipped school, ran away from home at night. I was also going through a severe depression, dealing with a shitton of childhood trauma, cutting on the regular and making multiple attempts on my life. Hell, if my parents had brushed me off as "a kid who needs to be disciplined" I probably would've killed myself at 14. It doesn't excuse me for punching my dad in the stomach when he was just trying to stop me from running away into the night but it doesn't mean I didn't deserve help.

[End of Trigger Warning]

These two things can be correct at the same time. Suyin can have done a shitty thing that deserves reprimand and that she needs help that she seemingly had to find on her own. But like, guess which of these two is almost exclusively focused on.

And I mean, it's totally not like the Avatar fandom has a habit of expressing extreme hate towards young girls (especially young girls of colour) making sub optimal choices or just beind "annoying". I've just never seen that before.

Suyin grew up with Toph, who Lin herself has described like this:

Suyin : No, no. My children are a blessing. Lin: Yeah, mom used to say that too, but she never meant it.

Which btw, still an incredibly hillarious thing to say in front of Suyin's children: "Hi kids I'm your aunt Lin and your mother is lying about loving you"

While Suyin has, as a child, expressed doubt that Toph would even care that she's skipping school. And as an adult, she has described her childhood with Lin as "competing for their mother's affection" and still has doubts whether or not her mother is happy with how either of them turned out.

Hell, even though Su and Toph have been said to have made up, Toph still maintains a heavy layer of distance between them, seemingly dissappearing for years at a time!

It's honestly sad how Suyin hugs Toph and puts up statues of her everywhere in Zaofu and yet Toph still just fucked off to the swamp when Opal was probably less then ten and did not contact them.

I mean, sounds like there's not a lot of motherly affection going on there, dude. Idk what to tell ya. We know there were no fathers around either.

And Lin was also a victim of this environment, so I don't really want this to come off as me blaming her for the way she acted towards Su. But Lin is hardly what I would call affectionate.

So of course Suyin would put so much stock in her relationships outside the house. And her friends happened to be fucking criminals fucking hell. And of course Lin, being a kid too did not know how to approach this situation properly, so she inadvertently just pushed Suyin closer to them by insulting them and making her feel defensive.

Because that's what all fucking teens do. The internalise things, they rely on their peers to form their perception of things and they want to be independent. So when someone, especially someone who isn't a parent tries to control them, guess how they'll react? They dig their heels in. Especially a teen like Suyin who has virtually no reason to listen to her older sister other than a vague "I know better than you" type of vibe which really pisses teens off. That's like the time when talking down to them is the worst thing to do.

And fuck off with saying getting arrested and screamed at by your sister in the middle of the road isn't a stressful situation that you wolud wanna get out of. Lin punched a car so hard it dented! (Especially that Lin has already been confirmed to use her status as a police officer against people she has a vendetta against, like when SHE TRIED TO THROW PEMA IN JAIL FOR STEALING HER MANS like how tf did we brush over that)

What I always find interesting in this scene is the front that Su puts on in front of Lin, which slips up a few times, particularly when Lin can't see her expression. Because Suyin is, of course being a fucking brat and taunting Lin, but you can clearly see that she's stressed out.

Suyin also describing the reason she helped her friends as a getaway driver is something I find interesting:

Suyin: I didn't steal anything. I just drove the car. I owed my friends a favor. It's not a big deal.

Of course she's scared and minimising her involvement but the usage of "owing her friends" could very easily imply her not exactly being too hyped about this, as well as her insistence on not stealing anything.

Because the thing about Suyin is that, especially in the flashbacks, we see her only in Lin's PoV. We don't see her relationship with her friends, what led up to the robbery, anything. Which makes sense, because the flashbacks are supposed to be Lin's. But that means we're viewing Su with the inherent bias of Lin, who clearly has an agenda against Su.

Lin clearly blames Suyin for Toph leaving policework, despite us later seeing how burnt out and cynical Toph was about being a cop. Its more likely that Su's arrest was a wake-up call for Toph, but she left due to the buildup of stress and disillusionment and Lin, who has been idolising her mother and her mother's career blamed it on Suyin in her head.

Hell, even they made up, Lin still immediately pivots to accusing Suyin of being involved in the Red Lotus' attack. Despite the attack placing Suyin's life, the lives of her sons and the lives of her guards at risk and Suyin going out of her way to thwart it.

And Suyin's life is just a fucking mess after this point like: betrayal by close friend, daughter kidnapped by terrorists, anarchy in the kingdom, leaders of 2 foreign governments trying to pressure her into subjugating the people in the name of a monarch she doesn't support, betrayal part 2; child boogaloo, the country she lives in being declared a dictatorship, city under literal siege, threat of attack in 24 hours, the fucking Avatar doing fuck all to help, a desperate attempt at assassinating the leader, getting caught and placed in questionably humane restraints, having to watch her daughter be forced to flee, PUBKIC HUMILIATION, the arrest of her non combative son and husbandd, INHUMANE JAIL CELL...

Do I need to go on? Like the moment the Krew came to her gouse her life just started to fucking fall apart its actually kinda hillarious.

And calling Suyin a "pick me" is just... unfounded? Who's she trying to get picked by? Her mom who doesn't love her? Girlie just wanted a family she literally said so in the show, put your listening ears on, babes.

I understand that Suyin isn't the most likeable character to people. I can understand why they dislike her. She can be annoying, hypocritical, rash, the poor structuring of the episodes around her and Lin makes it so she gets unearned favour from the writers etc. People who like Lin and Kuvira, two extremely popular characters in the fandom have an easy villain in their faves' lives if they just tweak Suyin a bit.

But that doesn't mean I'm obligated to dislike her too or that I'm not allowed to post about her in a way that doesn't allign with the fandom's narrative of her. You're not obligated to read it, hun, you can block the #pro suyin beifong tag if it makes you that upset to see me

I want to appreciate parts of Suyin which aren't highlighted by the fandom and I'm allowed to do that. Just because it doesn't fit with your clearly overtly negative opion of the character well, tough luck. And hey, I gladly take the opportunity to talk about Suyin, but I've also made a ridiculous amount of posts around har and have probably addressed almost every single fandom complaint of her at some point so I'm starting to get a little tired of repeating myself lol.

And I'll be the first to admit, my own teenage years probably heavily affect how compassionate I am towards Suyin, particularly in her younger years. But I know how much people hate "troubled teens", how little compassion thet are given.

The narrative that if a misbehaving teenager just gets deisciplined and reprimanded enough they'll stop being "spoilt and entitled" or acting out is wrong and harmful. It hurts tons of teenagers by not getting them the help they need and it would've fucking killed me.

Also hun, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I tend to use hyperbole a lot. I'm a dramatic bitch. Like did you also think I was serious when I said I'd shoot myself if I saw another ad for Amazon's shit lotr wannabe show?

Tbh everytime I get an ask like this I vaguely consider doubling down and commiting to the bit of being the fandom's "Lin Beifong hater". Though I feel like a lot of people wouldn't realise its a bit and think I actually hate her for real lol.

#unscripted quill traumadump yay 🥳🥳🥳#avatar fandom when a teenage girl with skin thay is not white as snow does something imperfect: and I took that personally #suyin beifong #pro suyin beifong #lin beifong #toph #toph beifong #anti lin beifong #<joke tag #avatar #legend of korra #tlok #the legend of korra #avatar the legend of korra #atlok #lok

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