#what is s2 even gonna b about

[freshmincedbeef]

one thing fionna and cake season 2 can do that will fix some problems i had with season 1 while also making the story more compelling is making gumball and marshall lee bitter exes that fucking hate each others guts

[marypsue]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on S1 of ST being a tragedy! No main character dies, so I never thought of it that way before

I mean, nobody has to die for a story to be a tragedy (at least, in the modern definition. I'm pretty sure '(almost) everybody dies' is a requirement of Greek tragedies and Renaissance revenge tragedies). But also, no main character dies in season one...if you take season one as part of a series. Which it wasn't originally conceived as.

I am not going looking for copies of the original pitch bible, because I am lazy, and also I only saw them floating around this webbed site. But the show changed a lot from the initial pitch (Joyce had a Long Island accent! Lucas' parents were divorcing! Murray was there and named Terry Ives! Most of what ended up in Hopper's character originally belonged to Mr. Clarke! The original pitch bible is fascinating). And part of the original pitch was a proposal for possible sequels.

The Duffers' proposal for a possible sequel was "It's ten years later, and Eleven is dead".

So that's the setup. Everything that came after season one was made up wholecloth after season one was a hit and people wanted more, but also people loved the adorable little psychic murder child (cue the Duffers shockedpikachu.jpg) and Netflix obviously recognised it would be a bad call to make a new season without her in it. So it makes sense to take season one as a unit, as a self-contained story on its own. You can also take it as part of a whole, but it makes sense to read it first as a complete story. Especially given the thematic drift of later seasons and the way they are...I'm just going to say it, each new season is very much added-on to what came before rather than being built on foundation that the earlier season(s) laid. It is very clear there was never a planned five-season story arc from the beginning. (This isn't necessarily always a bad thing, when it comes to sequels, but it does mean it makes sense to 'read' each season as its own thing.)

Okay, now that we've established all of that. Season one has one very clear goal, one very clear stake for the characters: save Will Byers from the Upside Down. (I like this. It makes the stakes both extremely high and extremely personal, it makes it very easy to understand each character's motivation, it also keeps the stakes grounded in reality. I like this a lot.) And by the end of the season, that goal is accomplished. So at first blush, you're right, season one doesn't look like a tragedy.

But when you start to unpack it a little, you start to see just how many important things were lost along the way. It's most glaringly obvious with Mike and El, with Nancy and Barb. The whole Wheeler family is fractured down the middle, with Mike and Nancy on one side and Ted, Karen, and Holly on the other, and Karen, who's been trying so hard the whole time to be part of her children's lives and understand what's going on with them, is aware of the ever-expanding gulf between them but will never be able to cross it, and will never fully know why. Hopper's finally managed to snatch a kid out of the jaws of death, save a woman he obviously cares about from the pain of losing a child, and Joyce has finally had someone believe her, support her, trust her. But it became blindingly obvious to me on my fourth rewatch that Hopper's plan, from the moment he went to leave the middle school gym, was always to trade El for Will. And that decision (and the fact that Joyce obviously understands that he did something to get the lab to let them go after Will, but she obviously doesn't dare press him on what) has broken her trust in him, and left him with what looks like an equally heavy burden of guilt as what he was carrying before. The lab stays open. The government gets away with everything. No one will ever know the true extent of the hurt they've caused.

And in the end, none of it even saved Will. He's back. He's alive. But he's spitting slugs in the sink. He's permanently marked by the Upside Down, and by trying to hide it from his family, he's putting a crack down the centre of them, as well. They're losing Will, just as surely as they had when they thought he was dead, just without him going anywhere.

And there's still a hole in the world.

The fragile bonds of community, the things that people share in common, the way catastrophe can bring people together and bring out the very best in them, are the major thematic threads woven through season one. Human connection is the only thing that can change what seems inevitable, the only thing that can bring back what's seemingly lost forever.

And it's still not enough to protect anyone from the random tragedy of the world.

The love was there. The love mattered. The love bent the entire course of the world around itself.

And it still wasn't quite enough.

If that's not a tragedy, then I don't know what is.

[deus-ex-mona]

[seddair]

‘

[still-a-morosexual-help]

i agree with the whole thing about mc not needing anymore love interests. tbh i feel like diavolo should’ve been the only datable side character (and also solomon but that’s me being biased bc he charmed his way into my heart) since he’s so interested in humans so he would naturally spend more and more time w mc. simeon and barbatos had the same aura as your older brothers best friend. yes they’re charming and it’s nice to imagine a relationship w them but they’re also emotionally unavailable and just don’t seem that interested in you anyway romantically.

Honestly I don't see Diavolo as a dateable either

When they first announced the side characters becoming dateables I was so visibly excited about Diavolo being dateable that I got a couple asks about whether this meant I'd be ditching Mammon

But I don't like the way they executed it?

They kinda just sprang it at the end of s2 with 0 build up?

I mean Solomon's being showing interest in MC since S1 (though I don't really interpret that as romantic interest) that it's believable when he starts liking them?

But even mid way through S2 Diavolo had no real interest in MC other than the 'they're human gotta keep 'em safe to make sure my millenia old dream suceeds' and 'if they die lucifer is going to be big sad' kind

Okay maybe my bitterness at the execution is making me exagerate. I'm sure he cared about MC as a person and/or a friend in S2 but it's never enough to justify the sudden romantic twist at the end of s2

The focus when it came to Diavolo or Lucifer in S2 was all about their relationship with each other and MC acting as the therapist. To the point that:

a.) Lucifer (with amnesia) asked MC what he was doing talking about other men (Diavolo) the last time they were together in a romantic spot (the top of a ferris wheel)

b.) MC's gonna fucking explode and take all three worlds with them and Diavolo refuses to tell the brothers till the very end because:

I mean look, you can't suddenly claim he's in love with MC when a few lessons ago he was willing to keep the fact that MC was a ticking time bomb from people who could have helped just because he wanted to not upset Lucifer for as long as possible

Also not Diavolo fighting for his life trying to deflect Simeon's questions and Simeon basically going

Even now each time Diavolo says something romantic to MC it's like getting hit in the face because it feels like it came outta nowhere

[bylertruth3r]

Mike and Will literally share shoes (and Will might be sleeping in Mike's room) and might not be dating yet when they start dating they're gonna share a whole closet and flirt with each other about how good they look in each other's clothes and just being obnoxious (I will rewatch those scenes so many times) what if they're sharing/swapping shoes because it's the 80's and they're in a really homophobic and conservative town and if they want to give little hints that they're dating and want to openly show it (to at least their friends) they have to be subtle about it? and maybe when they're at home they share clothes without feeling like they have to be careful with how they act around each other and can be openly affectionate (like them in s2)

Thank you for pointing it out @cler1csfink

Confirmation that they're the same shoes and they're both size 10 so yeah they're sharing shoes

and Mike brought these shoes from Hawkins which means the puma suede belong to Will

and in a leaked footage El and Mike broke up/ were already broken up because Mike says "we'll still be friends" and "i wanted to tell you first" which makes me think he might have came out to her (and in that video he was literally wearing his boyfriend's shoes)

video from @nowmemoriees

in s1 during that scene on the train tracks they're friends and in the leaked video they were wearing similar clothes to what they were wearing in that s1 scene where they were friends and could trust each other. i think Mike's gonna come out to her (as gay) there which would explain why El was crying, and why Mike said "i wanted to talk to you first", in s1 Mike said "friends tell the truth" to El and in s5 it's Mike's turn to be honest about himself and maybe he'll tell her he's in love with Will or maybe he'll tell her that he's dating Will

it's the same song that played when Robin came out to Steve, obviously Steve had a crush on Robin but she's a lesbian and can only love him platonically while even though Mike tried to love El romantically he couldn't do it because he's gay and he didn't even bother to close his eyes and kiss her back

plus in a deleted script it says he was mad at himself

and the song playing when Mike and El were kissing in s3 "can't fight this feeling" is about someone being in love with their friend and not knowing what to do about it while already being in a relationship with someone else so it's about Mike being in love with Will and not knowing what to do so he represses it and pushes him away to get over him but then realizing it's not working (which is something he realized at the end of s3) and he's gay and he want on a double date with Will and Lumax after that

and Mike in s4 was trying to be normal and might be into new things (men, because dnd is not new)

and

and in s4 "in the closet at rink o mania" started playing Mike took what Will said "and us?" as romantic and felt the need to clarify that they're friends and Will said they used to be best friends and the camera panned back to Mike plus synth music is his thing since he has "Smalltown Boy" (gay song) as his first song on his spotify playlist, it's a song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to start a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins

and he has a "one way" sign pointing to his closet because he's gay and closeted and in his room he has a poster of a shirtless man while the others (Steve, B*lly, and Lucas' "friends") all have women posters because they like women, Mike has all the things he loves the most in his room, a wizard (Will) and buff men <33, and a buff male dragon for some reasons and he has Will's drawings in his room

Mike being obsessed with Superman? and him having a poster of a shirtless man while Steve, B*lly and the tigers all had posters of women in bikinis (because they like girls) Will has a skinny pink panther poster in his room which symbolizes his type in men (Mike) Mike has a shirtless man poster and a buff male dragon poster which symbolizes his type in men (Will) (he's not really buff but he's stronger than Mike) they're each other's type and love each other plus you can see Mike looking at Will's arms during some scenes

also in s3 he was happy about Dustin having a gf and asked him about her but then in s4 when he "finds out" Will has a crush on a "girl" he doesn't ask him about "her" and acts distant (he was pretending he didn't care but he was jealous) and he asked Will about the painting because he was hoping it was for him (it was)

and he realized Will loves him back in the van scene, Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him, Mike felt lost without Will, Will felt lost without Mike, Will loves him, Mike loves him back, they both think the other doesn't love them, they will prove each other wrong in s5 when Mike finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, they love each other the way they want to be loved

and he was so happy to see Will drew a heart on his shield

which is literally an engagement ring, no hands because they'll be more than friends in s5

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness

and Lukas and Mike both have internalized homophobia (Lukas was dating a girl to be normal and then he breaks up with his gf and starts dating Philip,his male best friend)

and if this leak is actually correct there would be another parallel. the episode 2 of s5 is called "the vanishing of ***** Wheeler and if Holly goes missing then Mike and Will are gonna go looking for her in the upside down and maybe they'll kiss there (maybe that's where Mike's gonna get injured)

because in eyewitness Lukas gets injured and his boyfriend stays with him and he kisses his forehead, Lukas' dad sees it (he's ok with it)

and in s2 Mike stayed with Will at the hospital so now it's Will's turn

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness and they filmed at like 3 or 4 different farms (one of them has swings) and they're literally filming at one right now

more s5 leaks and Mike and El staying friends after the break up and Mike being worried for Will <33 and Mike and Robin bonding over their partners being in danger

Will is wearing one of Mike's shirts in s5, Mike wore something similar in s3 it's a gap shirt and Eddie said Mike wears gap shirts and Will has never worn something like this in the previous seasons and he didn't bring that many clothes back to Hawkins so he's gonna have to wear Mike's if he's staying at Mike's (the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table and Will's tiger plushie is in Mike's room, it makes me think that they're already dating in the scene because Will is wearing blue yellow and green which are Byler's colors

Noah liking another byler edit? fork found in the kitchen. pic from @iamforbyler from here . there are hints that Mike and Will's first kiss will be in s5 episode 7 (during Jopper's first kiss there were boxes that said MW705, Mike and Will s5 episode 7) they definitely told him to promote Byler again to introduce Byler as boyfriends to the GA and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore and when they asked her what her favorite pop culture couple was she said the couple from twlight instead of mlvn

Will's wearing Mike's black jeans, the blue shirt looks like something s2 Mike would wear but the undershirt looks like Will's in s4. he's just stealing his boyfriend's clothes atp because Will has never worn black jeans before and he's wearing blue (Mike's color) and Mike's the only one in the party who has worn black jeans and Will might be staying at Mike's because his tiger plushie was in Mike's room and the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table plus Will has to stay at Mike's since he doesn't have a house in Hawkins and the cabin is too small for all the Byers to live in.

maybe he's wearing Mike's black jeans from s5 instead of the s4 ones but either way they're still Mike's jeans since Will has never worn black jeans before s5 and Mike has, Will is stealing his boyfriend's clothes, plus Mike is wearing Will's shoes in s5 <33

Byler is so obviously gonna happen even without all those proofs because they gave mlvn the stancy storyline of Nancy not being able to say "I love you" to Steve because she's in love with Jonathan and they didn't give that storyline to Jopper, Lumax and Jancy or even Duzie which are healthy couples who don't lie about who they are to each other and never felt unloved by their partners, and Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him and El doesn't and Millie said El realized she's her own superhero and that she's gonna figure out who she is without Mike and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore

Mike and Will spent s3 acting like they were the exes because in s2 Mike was overly affectionate with Will but he stopped doing that when he got a gf because he saw what he did as romantic so in his mind being affectionate with Will even just hugging him or just holding his hand like he did in s2 would be cheating because he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike becomes less and less interested in El the more feminine she becomes, it becomes more difficult for him to pretend he's straight i mean he "fell in love" with her when she looked like a boy and people kept calling her a boy..

Mike probably thought she was a boy at first, everyone kept calling El the boy with the buzzcut at first in s1 and Mike said "that's not Will" instead of "that's a girl" and interesting thing is the more feminine El becomes the less interested in her Mike becomes, he probably thought El was a boy at first and she was wearing a yellow shirt (Will's color) maybe she reminded him of Will?

I mean Mike being gay aside who would you rather for him to be with?

A, with someone who doesn't understand him and he feels like he has to change himself to be with and who makes him feel insicure?

B, with someone who he feels like he can fully be himself with and who understands him and who puts him on the first place and makes him feel loved? B right? with Will

Jancy had their "we're just friends" moment and they kissed in 2 and Jopper had their "it's just 2 friends getting together for a nice dinner" moment and they kissed in s4 , Lumax had their "she's not my girlfriend" moment and they kissed in s2 and Byler had their "we're friends, we're friends" moment (started by Mike who doesn't know Will is gay) and they'll kiss in s5, there were no moments like these between Dustin and Lucas because they're not in love with each other

Byler's first cameo in a book and they're kissing and holding hands<33 it's about Alina wanting to ask a guy out and she catches the guy (Ben) kissing his boyfriend (Janos), there's carved "W+M" on the tree and a "byler" sign in the second pic, they probably asked permission to Netflix and people who worked on st to add them which makes Byler already canon? the author of the book reversed the arrow on Mike's pocket to point at Will.. and it's close to his heart.. that's adorable

pic from here @sususu34

originally El was supposed to die in s1 (I'm glad they didn't kill her) and they were already planning to make Will in love with Mike since s1? plus if they wanted to make Will move on they would've given him a bf in the previous seasons like with Dustin and Suzie because Max didn't like Dustin back. So basically Mike and Will are gonna get together in s5

JEALOUS MIKE WHEELER WELCOME BACK, Will getting his own love triangle as he should, or maybe it's just Mike since it says "a love interest" not "a new love interest".. I kinda want to see Mike being in pain for a bit tho since I had to witness Will being in pain for 4 seasons, I kinda want a guy to flirt with Will and Will tries to get to know the character to move on from Mike and Mike gets mad and jealous about it, although they did say there were no new characters in it.. and the only new boy is Derek who's Holly's age so maybe the love interest is just Mike, and Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend, they literally just confirmed Byler because they said Will is getting a boyfriend and they said they won't add any major characters in s5 so that means Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend

they literally just confirmed Byler is endgame because they said Will is getting a boyfriend and the Duffers said they won't add any major characters in s5 so Mike's gonna be Will's boyfriend since the only new characters are a woman a boy who's 10 and a family with 2 little kids and the Duffers said that Will's emotional arc (his relationship with Mike) is gonna tie up the whole season, if they wanted to give Will another boyfriend they would've done it in the previous seasons (like how they handled Dustin's unrequited love for Max in s2 and gave him a gf in s3) instead of making Will in love with Mike for 4 seasons

Mike is gonna be Will's love interest and boyfriend and they know it that's why they only allowed their subscribers to see this tweet to avoid a lawsuit, leak here, this leaker is really reliable and from Reddit

There's a leak about how Mike and Will are gonna clean each other's wounds in s5 episode 2 like Jancy did in s1, maybe Mike is gonna get hurt while protecting Will from something and Will is probably gonna be there scolding him while cleaning Mike's wounds and Mike is just staring at Will's face and not listening to a single word and blushing

this leaker has a source that was an extra for 2 weeks, take everything as a grain of salt, nothing is confirmed, Mike's gonna kiss Will first (and it's gonna be angsty) after he finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, the kiss is gonna happen halfway through the season or later

So according to a leak Mike has finally accepted that he's gay and he's not trying to be normal (straight) anymore, and he's discovering things about himself, he's gonna kiss Will first

So Finn's new st playlist (for s5) is really interesting.. Mike is gay, "it's a passing phase" "give it a hundred years, it won't go away' (from "angst in my pants")"I don't want to be the one whose coming out first" (it's from "don't ask me to explain) Mike wants Will to come out first and to confess first, and "should you need a love that's true, it's me" (from "what you're doing), Will needs Mike and Mike knows it, Mike and Will both have "just what I needed" as the last song in their playlists because they need each other, Mike also has a song about dreaming and thinking about a person they know they're not supposed to, it's his POV of Byler

This is the playlist (STurn), Finn makes playlists for characters he plays for inspiration

Mike tried to lie to himself and pretend that he could love El but he can't (because he's gay and in love with Will), there's a song called "don't ask me anything" in his playlist and the lyrics are "it's so easy to lie to myself and pretend i could love you but i can't" the last lyrics are about a failed relationship with a girl

in s5 episode 4 there will be a flashback with 8 yo Mike and Will and 13 yo Jonathan, the fact that they're spending so much time on Byler (and even giving us Miwi flashbacks) and that we already got confirmation that Will's gonna have a boyfriend (it's Mike) should tell y'all everything (they're gonna get together), they spent s2 and s4 together and they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) in s5 and spend most of s5 together, they're gonna film the scene in early July, Mike's the only one with lines so the scene is gonna be shot from his POV of Byler

Mike and Will are gonna spend most of s5 together because they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) and they're gonna have scenes with Rovickie where they're gonna be a group, Mike's obviously gay because otherwise they wouldn't have put him with other queer people, plus El's gonna have a separate arc from Mike (because they're gonna break up and she's gonna be more independent)

we're gonna get a scene of Byler riding a bike with Holly, Holly's gonna have to thirdwheel Mike and Will, good luck to her, Will's gonna spend most of S5 with Mike and they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) and if Will's boyfriend was gonna be another boy they would've made Will spend most of S5 with that guy so basically Mike's gonna be Will's boyfriend

Pics here

Will's staying at Mike's which would explain the Wheelers adding 2 chairs and it would explain Mike and Will sharing clothes/items and it would explain Will hanging out with Holly, plus the Byers don't have their old house anymore

Now that we know that Will's staying at Mike's house we're gonna get so much domestic content like them sharing clothes/shoes, them sharing Mike's bed, them taking care of Holly together, them kissing, them going to school together .. They're so married

the mlvn make out scene people are talking about is just a kiss at the beginning of s5 which is gonna be their last kiss (a break up kiss?) which is gonna parallel stancy's last kiss in episode 1 s2 before they broke up and Nancy got with Jonathan ,I think they're doing that to compare Byler's first kiss (which is gonna be passionate and desperate) to mlvn's last kiss, also more confirmation that the painting is gonna be really important in both Mike and Will's storylines, a byler got these things confirmed by 2 sources but they said to not worry because this is not bad for Byler, it's actually good for us, production is also trying to keep Byler hidden (they're gonna get together),

Pics here

They're trying to keep Byler hidden because they're gonna date and the painting is gonna be really important to their storylines because that's how they're gonna get together

happy 2 years anniversary to the most obvious foreshadowing ever (making willelmike walk in their love triangle formation and making El walk away from them and picking up the same dead flowers Mike gave her at the airport because their relationship is dead and making Mike stay with Will and putting Byler with other couples and putting them in the center because the're gonna focus on that relationship in s5 and making them breath in sync while the other couples were holding hands, and they made the music pick up while they showed us the couples, Mike and Will are gonna get together in s5)

video of the scene here

so from what we know so far: a guy is gonna hit on Will and Will won't reciprocate, Jonathan hates that guy for hitting on Will and Mike and Will's relationship is gonna be extremely important in s5 and they're gonna be a team, it's kinda obvious what's gonna happen (Mike and Will are gonna get together), what if Will starts dating Chance and starts hanging out with him more to get over Mike and Mike gets mad and jealous about it and they fight about it and then we have another Byler rain fight but this time Mike's the jealous one? btw Jonathan HATES Chance for hitting on Will, he's a Byler shipper fr, pics of the leak here

Mike said he's the only one that CARES about Will because he's in love with him and he said he cares about El because he's trying (and failing) to love her the way he loves Will but when El called him out on him not loving her anymore he got defensive because he's not in love with her ,he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike only said those things because he thinks El commissioned the painting and he felt like he owed it to El and you can tell that because he only started saying those things after Will said "you're the heart" and they called the soundtrack of the scene "you're the heart" because Mike now thinks the things Will said in the van were from El, in this scene Mike was trying to recreate the shed scene but the difference is no one pushed Mike into saying those things to Will and he didn't repeat any word he heard from others when he spoke to Will, in s5 he's gonna realize Will loves him back and that he lied about the painting and he's gonna kiss him, Mike likes to plagiarize things, pics here

THE OG PARTY IS BACK and so is the Byler height difference <33, Mike and Will being the IT couple in high school <33, Will is sitting in front of Mike during lunch <33 they're gonna be such a cute couple i just know it, they're gonna be the couple who plays footsies under the table, Holly has a gay thing in her room, maybe to support Mike being gay?

only the couples said to each other or about each other that they were "friends" while the actual platonic friends (Dustin and Lucas) never said it because they never felt the need to, and Mike said it about Will while not even knowing that Will is gay and in love with him.. he said it because he was thinking of Will romantically so he said "we're friends, we're friends" to convince himself not Will

the Duffers called Mike and El their E.T and Elliot (which are platonic friends) and the dead flowers El picked up at the end of s4 were the same flowers Mike gave her at the airport, dead flowers represent a dead relationship, hopefully after the break up they'll be able to communicate more and to actually get to know each other and rhat they'll be actual friends, Mike does love El but he loves her platonically even though he's been tryng to force himself into loving her romantically but he can't because he's gay and in love with Will, parallels here

Byler, Jancy and Lumax all held hands in the same episode in s2

Byler's parallels with Jancy: Nancy couldn't love Steve because she's in love with Jonathan, Mike can't love El because he's gay and in love with Will, Nancy talked to Jonathan about Steve on a car after the break up, Mike talked to Will about El on a car after the fight, Jonathan lied and said Steve asked him to bring Nancy home, Will lied about El commissioning the painting, Nancy yelled Jonathan's name in the upside down and he went to save her, Will yelled Mike's name in the upside down and Mike snapped Will out of his episodes

Byler's parallels with Lumax: Mike stayed with Will in the lab, Lucas stayed with Max in the hospital, Will yelled Mike's name during his episode and Mike snapped him out of his episode, Max yelled Lucas' name and Lucas was there for her, they played a song used in a s2 Lumax scene (on the bus) during Mike and Will's heart to heart and used the interruption trope (a romantic trope) in both scenes

Fun fact: they used "heroes" in s3 again but they cut the "and we kissed as though nothing could fall" lyrics that they used in s1 when Mike was hugging his mom and thinking about Will, those lyrics are reserved to Byler and I think they're gonna use this song again during Byler's first kiss, Acid (a leaker) said that Mike's arc in s5 is about self-discovery (which could be Mike understanding who he belongs with, Will) and that he's not gonna try to be normal (straight, Finn said that Mike was trying to be normal in s3 and s4) in s5, plus I think Mike and Will are gonna have another rain fight before the kiss since Shawn Levy hinted at another Byler rain fight, plus s5 is gonna be Will centric and Mike and Will's relationship is gonna be really important in s5

In the first picture Mike is looking at Will (the boy he's in love with) and in the second picture Trevor is looking at Lucky (the girl he has a crush on), Netflix posted this on Instagram

Mike and Will are gonna spend s5 together as a team (Jopper parallel) and their relationship is gonna be really important in s5, also Will is definitely staying at Mike's since he's hanging out with Mike and Holly so much

Mike is filming a lot of scenes with Robin (canon lesbian character) because he's gay, Will is gonna clean his boyfriend's wounds <33, is Robin gonna be Mike and Will's gay mentor and help them get together? i would love that, Mike and Will are sharing two pair of jeans and sharing stuff is a thing for couples

He called El a weapon in s1 and he wanted to send her back to the lab and only changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was and that she could help him find him, he absolutely DID NOT fall in love with her her at first sight, if he actually loved her he would've chosen a moment where he actually showed that he was in love with her, plus he's gay and in love with Will, He said he fell for El at first sight because he saw Argyle say something similar about Eden and he tried to copy him, he got caught for plagiarizing something at school so it wouldn't be the first time for him doing that, plus he copied what Eddie said about Dustin and said it to El, plus the Duffers said that they don't believe in love at first sight and the first thing Mike said/thought when he first saw El was "that's not Will", he was trying to recreate the shed scene except that in s2 they won and no one lied to him and his words to Will were genuine and sincere while in s4 Will lied to him and made him think El commissioned the painting (which is why he said those things, he didn't know what to say before Will said "you're the heart") and they lost

The actress who plays Suzie ships Byler, Noah and Finn also ship Byler and Brett also ships Byler and Millie ships Byler and the actor who plays younger Henry ships Byler

why did they make Mike say he loved El in s3 and then made him say he forgot he said it and then in s4 he couldn't say it anymore? it makes no sense because he knows El heard him and he just could've just said it again to her face in s3 instead of acting dumb, also in s4 he put the blame on other people instead of on himself and instead of trying to comfort El and he was all defensive and stuff like Nancy when she broke up with Steve, Mike meant it platonically and he's gay

CALEB SAID THEY MADE PLAYLISTS FOR THEIR CHARACTERS, SO STURN (Finn made this playlist) IS ABOUT MIKE AND HE'S GAY (it has lyrics like "it's so easy to lie to myself and pretend that I could love you but I can't" which is about mlvn and "besides I don't want to be the one whose coming out first") which is about Mike wanting Will to come out as gay first because he's scared and it has a song about a milkshake and about how a relationship wasn't built to last (which is also about mlvn since they had milkshakes in s4), and he could also be referring to Mike's bassment beats, which has smalltown boy on it and that song is a gay song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to find a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins, or maybe it's the Wheeel playlist, Mike (Wheel)er, Finn made it for Mike, you use the wheel to drive and he put a song called "gay thoughts" in it because Mike is gay

Noah liked a byler edit yesterday (he already knows how the show ends since he's read the last episode script and he knows the endgames, so Mike and Will are gonna date)

Lukas from eyewitness is gay and has internalized homophobia and dated a girl to try and be normal, Mike is gay and has internalized homophobia and he's doing the same thing with El and Lukas has some parallels with Mike

these colors represent El, Will and Mike (i love how Mike is next to his boyfriend instead of in the middle) also i love that Mike wears make up (i have no idea what that thing does), Will is Mike's favorite <33

Will's love interest and boyfriend, they're gonna spend s5 together I can't wait, Mike and Will are still filming together and they're filming the final episodes, they're gonna be a team

Mike thinks he's unlovable but Will loves him like breathing <33, and he makes Mike feel loved instead of insicure and he understands him like no one else could and loves him the way Mike wants to be loved

Mike is wearing Will's clothes again, sharing clothes is a thing for couples

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship, and as it goes on you kinda realize that Will does.. am i allowed to say this?" we already know that Will is in love with Mike, why couldn't he say it? Why is it a spoiler? Because Mike loves him back and he confirmed that Will is still in love with Mike and he's not moving on, reminder that Noah has read the script of the last episode and he knows all the endgames (including Byler)

Mike's monologue made El angry and she knows he was lying to her, does she also know that Mike is gay? She knows Mike doesn't love her in a romantic way even if he tried to in s4

well now that we know that Will is still in love with Mike and that he's not moving on from him.. this leaker basically confirmed that Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend (they made Will spell "lover" in the words game in the s5 bts pic)

So basically Mike is gonna go on a journey of self-discovery in s5 (accepting that he's gay and in love with Will)

Noah and Finn cried during the final table read , the Duffers said that they put a lot of time in the show to have a proper pay off and the fact that Finn said that the van scene will pay off in the end??

Noah saying: "Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" Cara Buono saying: "Mike goes on his journey in s5" (self discovery, accepting that he's gay and in love with Wll), Millie dodging the monologue question, her becoming a byler after reading the s5 scripts, Noah and Finn both crying at the final table read, Finn saying that the van scene will pay off in the end (the Duffers told him that), the Duffers saying that they put a lot of time in the show to have a proper pay off, Mike and Will sharing clothes and Will's shoes in s5, Finn making that STurn gay playlist about Mike and Caleb confirming that they made s5 playlists for their characters

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship"

"bye Will, see you Will🥰"

THIS MIKE WAS ALREADY IN LOVE WITH WILL :(

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" THIS Mike realized he was in love with Will, this part of the letter matches with Mike's thoughts so well, he wants things to go back to how they were in s2 when things weren't awkward and he didn't know he was in love with Will

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" THEY'RE IN LOVE

"only love makes you that crazy sweetheart"

"crazy together"

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" THIS Mike was already in love with Will and he thought he lost him forever without being able to confess to him :(

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" this scene was always supposed to have romantic undertones because they're in love with each other

them playing "every smile you fake" while Will was faking a smile while dancing with a girl (he's canonically in love with Mike) them playing "and we kissed as though nothing could fall" while Mike hugging his mom while thinking about Will (because he's in love with Will), them using these lyrics was intentional

Karen Wheeler wanted to read lines for Joyce's play with Patty so she could kiss her, she's bisexual, she's queer like Mike

Byler looking at each other's lips <33 also Mike noticed something was wrong with Will before Will touched his neck because he was already looking at Will instead of watching the movie <33 i love the Byler and Lumax double date sm and Mike being a protective and worried boyfriend over Will

happy 7 years of this scene which was basically a love confession <33 in "st the first shadow" Henry was possessed by the Mindflayer (like Will) and Patty used the "power of love" (like Mike) to help Henry, and Will used the hand Mike held to communicate to the others to close the gate so basically gay love saved Hawkins <33

Mike has all the things he loves the most in his room, a wizard (Will) and buff men <33, and a buff male dragon for some reasons and he has Will's drawings in his room

the Duffers put "the Birdcage" on the s4 DNA board which is about a GAY MAN pretending to be straight in the same season where Finn said that Mike was trying to be as NORMAL as possible and where he was acting awkward around Will and in the season where he kept staring at Will's lips and where they played a song called "in the closet at rink o mania" when the camera panned to Mike and he started talking again", the closet is thin air atp, he's so gay

in s5 Mike is gonna go on a journey of self-discovery (accepting that he's gay and in love with Will),and he's not gonna try to be normal anymore Finn said that Mike was trying to be normal in s3 and s4 (he was trying to be straight), "he might be into some new things" (men), dnd is not new for him so the Hellfire Club was not new for him, the word "normal" has only been associated to the queer characters of st

the fact that Mike was trying to make things less gay but he made it gayer by acting weird around his "best friend" who he has "no feelings" for... like all Will wanted was a hug from his best friend of a decade.. homotron 7000 can't even hug his "best friend" anymore who may i remind you has NO IDEA WIll is gay and literally thought Will had a crush on a girl and made the painting for her and Mike got jealous and petty about it... oh and in s2 and s3 he had no problems with hugging Will or being physical with him..

if it was because they drifted away they would've made Will act awkward around Mike too but they didn't, It was confirmed by Finn twice that Mike has no idea Will is gay and he thought Will had a crush on a girl so why was he acting like that? Cuz he was jealous of the girl and gay panicking about Will's glow up

Mike uses his Will voice in Dustin's book and he's afraid of losing Will (and El), Dustin mentions all the things in his healthy relationship with Suzie (like having things in common and being honest with each other) and Mike can't relate to that (they spent s3 and s4 lying to each other) and he doesn't know what to talk to El about, this book was made by a professional writer who's a Byler shipper

in s2 in the shed scene they showed Byler while the lyrics said "if you say that you are mine" "i'll be here till the end of time" , they're the only fully romantic lyrics in the song

THIS was Mike's pov not Will's which is why Will is blurred out but after this Mike turns to Will and he looks happy but then Mike looks back at El and he looks sad and i think there are 2 reasons for that

1 he was scared of how El would react to the truth (he's gay and in love with Will)

2 he was trying to make Will jealous (cuz he knew Will was in love with him during that moment) but then he noticed that it didn't work and he got sad about it, at the airport he was also trying to make Will jealous by kissing El's cheek after he learned that Angela would be at rink o mania (and he thought Will had a crush on Angela), the parallels with Rovickie were intentional cuz we're gonna have 2 queer couples instead of one

they called the van scene the most heartfelt scene in s4? heartfelt means: from the heart, sincere, genuine, which means Mike lied during the monologue cuz they could've called that scene the most heartfelt scene of s4 but they didn't

[grace-williams-xo]

RAMBLING THOUGHTS AFTER FINISHING PART TWO. GONNA ADDRESS MY P1 THOUGHTS FIRST. SPOILER WARNING.

1 & 2: I think Debling could’ve worked in the second half, and I’m kinda sad Cressida didn’t get a happy ending. The Creloise fell of a CLIFF after ep 5 but I think it could still be saved

5: no cishet man has ever loved his wife more than Anthony Bridgerton I’m gonna be ill

6 & 12: kanthony’s absence was felt BAD in the finale, I think their reactions to LW were sorely needed. Also Jonny and Simone have both said they’ll be at every sibling’s wedding and stick around for years but they missed Francesca’s??? Also felt their absence too much then. They’re both booked and busy I think we’ll continue to only get a couple episodes a season from them

8: Francesca did get to thrive happy in pt 2 my baby I love her

9: I think they managed to disconnect the mondrich plot even further like 😭 once again, I don’t mind them their plot just feels very empty

10: Pen and Delacroix CONTINUE to be my fave duo I love them so freaking much and they can never get rid of it

13: Portia’s growth this season continued to be 10/10 I loved her and Penelope’s relationship it really showed what it’s like to be closely related to people you oppose and the process of needing to forgive and understand them for your own peace of mind

14: that was not how I was expecting Colin to find out about Whistledown

15: Marcus felt a little rushed in part two but I think I need to watch the whole season together to fully decide

17: this was indeed the longest 27 days of my life I got Covid day after it dropped lmfao

MY ~NEW~ THOUGHTS:

We finally got character development from Cressida and if they write her out I’ll be inconsolable (as will Jessica Madsen)

I hope they paid Golda Rosheuvel good for her feet exposure. Worth more than titties in this economy

I feel the need to tell everyone that £5000 in 1815 is in the realm of £500,000 today and we cannot brush over the fact Penelope has made herself the equivalent of a literal millionaire

Anthony has two moods ‘I’m obsessed with my wife’ ‘I want to win this game’ like it is comical how drastically different his facial expression is in the game of charades compared to pretty much every other scene

Anthony saying the marriage is perfect and not hard work and Kate being like BOY I will humble you,,,, doing the lord’s work I love her so much

At some points I felt like Francesca was fighting Anthony for ‘Violet’s least favourite child’ award lmao

John saying he’s off to look at the wainscotting was unfairly funny

Cressida in the red dress is even better than I imagined fuck even if she’s not gay then I am

Peneloise back together the universe is healing I love my babies all we need now is creloise lovers and peneloise friendship simultaneously I don’t like it being one or the other sue me

However much Brimsley is getting paid isn’t enough,,,, Hugh Sachs the man that you are

I adored Penelope’s wedding dress so much and as bitter as I am still about no kanthony wedding in s2, it felt kind of right somehow for Polin to be the first wedding we properly see in this show

Most of the costumes and makeup feel like they got worse,,,,, big ‘I hired a 14 year old’ energy. I don’t need historical accuracy but I would like a modicum of care and the costume/hair/makeup dept looking at a single historical reference from before 1850,,,, please

We all got the bi Benedict we’ve been asking for and I appreciate it, and recognise that he needed Tilley to explore that, but I still would’ve preferred if they first main queer experience was not a threesome

If they go straight into benophie in s4 (which idk, I’m so torn bc I feel like F, E and B all could work well next season) then I also feel like bi Benedict was just them throwing a bone for 5 mins but meant nothing

The CONTENTIOUS Michaela Stirling,,,,, I was undecided until I saw it but that was the definition of gay panic from Francesca and it worked so well I am so excited.

As your resident peerage expert, it is much easier for women to inherit titles in Scotland than England so I wonder (not that anyone on this show knows anything) if that was a reason they chose Francesca to be sapphic [general peerage info and female inheritance info if you care]

On the above, if they can canonically end racism with one marriage then they can end homophobia with one marriage as well

We all know Eloise was the easy and obvious choice to be the queer love story but part of me does kind of like them not taking the easy route, and them going something more unexpected, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want Creloise/Sapphic El like they had eight children let’s be honest

Finch’s sneeze and Phillips’s “now Varely! The bugs!” were unfairly funny

Everything Lady Danbury said to Penelope about suspecting her and what not felt very in character and you can fight with the wall idc

Did they tell us the name of Polin’s baby boy???

Hyacinth saying she thinks of Gregory as the family pet,,,,, girl you an icon walking amongst mere mortals

Predictions I got right:

Anthony didn’t kill Colin, but “are you gonna duel your own brother” lmao I was on the right track

I knew Polin would win the Featherington baby race and I love that for them (but why were Prudence and Phillipa pregnant most of the season, barely showing, Kate was showing almost immediately, and then in the epilogue the sisters all had baby’s similar-ish ages???? Give the writers room a calendar please)

I SAID FROM DAY DOT THAT THE FURNITURE THEY BROKE FROM SEX WAS A CHAISE I CANT FIND THE POST BUT I KNEW IT I FUCKING KNEW IT WHERE DO I COLLECT MY PRIZE SOME OF YOUR GUESSES WERE TRULY FUCKING COOKED

Okay that was too long if you made it this far I’ll make you cookie ily

[warblogs17282]

I want to present another idea on how the scene where Blitz talks to his mother could go, and a bit on Blitz's self hatred.

But first, a little background.

It's very clear that Blitz still hates himself immensely for accidentally starting the fire that severely damaged Fizzarolli, and (very heavily implied) that also killed his own mother.

And I have three pieces of evidence that shows just how much Blitz hates himself, with it all tying back to the circus fire.

1: You're already aware of the fact that Blitz blacks out his face in pictures he's in with others, but it goes a bit further than that, he also did that to a picture of him when he was a child, interacting with the animals within the circus.

2. The fact that three out of the four memories we see in the trailer are of Fizzarolli, with the one exception also taking place in Ozzie's. Which shows us that Fizzarolli has always been on Blitz's mind a lot, even more so after the fire, and every time Blitz sees Fizzarolli in his mind, it just takes him right back to that circus fire, the source of most of Blitz's self-hatred.

There's another thing I'd like to add onto my point of 'Fizzarolli has always been on Blitz's mind a lot', that being, the fact that Blitz also clearly takes whatever Fizzarolli says to heart.

Which is clearly shown to us by,

Fizzarolli being one of the characters in Blitz's drug trip, and with him also saying, "You're gonna die alone, Blitzo!"

The real Fizzarolli at Ozzie's, saying "Last I checked, your love life is a pile of shit!"

And with Blitz very explicitly confirming that he took what Fizzarolli said to him during his drug trip and during Ozzie's to heart.

Sure you could argue Blitz only came out with that because he was drunk at the time, but I still believe that it shows just how much Blitz at least subconsciously cares about Fizzarolli and his opinions.

"Fuck, Fizz was right. I'm gonna die alone, aren't I? Just a wrinkly, old, withered, waste. Will you be there, Loonie?"

Fizzarolli used to resent Blitz, because he thought Blitz caused the fire on purpose, and seemingly just abandoned him. Which is why this memory comes back up again for Blitz, the sheer malice on Fizzarolli's face, the fact that the person Blitz cares about this much hated him just hurts so badly, and just because they made up in s2 e6 doesn't make that pain of the malice filled stare at Ozzie's go away, so while Blitz has indeed come a long way since that circus fire, he still hasn't forgiven himself for accidentally causing it, and all of those memories that we see in the trailer are just a reminder of that fact to Blitz, with them continuing to fuel Blitz's own self-hatred, even to this day.

Considering all of this, it's very clear that Blitz also hasn't forgiven himself for accidentally causing the fire that killed his own mother.

Finally, we can get onto my idea with all of that out of the way.

Pay attention to the floor in the next two pictures.

Notice the eye looking symbol in both of them? What that shows to me is that the scene with Blitz's mother also most likely takes place within the hotel, which also makes me suspect that the scene is a hallucination, not a flashback, and even if it's a hallucination of sorts, I feel like it'd still make sense that we see Blitz's before the fire self in this scene.

So, a potential idea I have that could go down in this scene is that the shapeshifter dude takes advantage of all of Blitz's self-hatred relating to the circus fire, by using a hallucination or something of the likes of Blitz's mother, playing into the fact that Blitz very clearly hasn't forgiven himself for accidentally causing the circus fire, and using that to crush Blitz further, by making the hallucination of Blitz's mother say or do something to make Blitz think that she'd hate him as well if she was still alive.

Which would tie into the scene where Blitz doesn't have his mother's necklace.

Obviously there's a bit of guesswork in this idea I came up with, but it still could very well happen in some way/form, which I'm really interested and scared to see how everything in this scene plays out.

[genericpuff]

Was the Hera×Echo thing for real?! Was it like planned??? It doesn't feel like it was planned! It feels like Rachel just wanted to queerbait to gather more new readers wtf

yeah it's exactly that tbh

FASTPASS SPOILERS AHEAD !!!

like what more realistically happened is she saw people headcanon'ing Echo and Hera and went "yeah sure I'll do that!" without actually writing the fucking relationship.

This was even a problem back in S2 with Echo's character as a whole, she's introduced as this mysterious 'double agent' character who's almost definitely working for Zeus-

-but then aside from two scenes involving Echo accompanying Hera to the motel to retrieve Persephone's things and Echo warning Daphne that Apollo clearly isn't 'over Persephone' (because he had, y'know, barged into Hera's office demanding Hera's blessing) the whole "Echo is a double agent for Zeus" thing was only confirmed after Daphne was turned into a tree and Echo said "FUCK YOU ZEUS, I'M NOT GONNA DO YOUR DIRTY WORK ANYMORE!" which ... huh? Where's the plot? It feels like there was an entire story there that just got dumped entirely so that Hades and Persephone could play golf with diamonds.

Like this was presumably where Echo ditched her obligation to Zeus, but it had nothing to do with Hera, it was because she heard (I'm assuming from Thanatos) what happened to Daphne.

After that we only ever see Echo again when it's implied that her and Hera had some kind of falling out. No idea what over, maybe it was Hera finding out that Echo was a double agent, maybe Hera called her a slur, we have no clue what. But it's sorta just tacked on during an ongoing monologue about how Kronos has affected her.

The only other 'hint' we got towards it was Ares calling Echo Hera's 'girlfriend' but that doesn't mean a whole lot when we've literally never seen these two have more than two scenes together.

So now Rachel making them kiss feels more like her taking credit for writing a plotline that doesn't exist and was fabricated entirely in the audience's headcanon. And this is something Rachel does a lot, she basically relies entirely on her audience filling in the blanks for her nothingburger plot and then of course gets to take all the credit for being a "smart and inclusive writer". Where? Literally where the fuck is the actual writing?

Imagine if we had gotten a proper B-plot showcasing the relationship between Echo and Hera. Echo is working for Hera as a double agent and doesn't want to blow her cover, while Hera is suspicious because she worries her husband is up to something. Over time they work together, grow closer, Hera realizes that Echo makes her feel a kind of happiness that Zeus hasn't made her feel in a long time, Echo realizes that she can't keep lying to Hera about why she was hired and decides she values Hera's loyalty and respect over Zeus' because she has feelings for Hera now. Maybe Hera finds out about Echo being a double agent, either by overhearing a conversation between Echo and Zeus or because Echo outright tells her, and eventually it resolves with them finally admitting their feelings towards one another and Hera realizing that she's felt trapped in a loveless marriage that's essentially serving the same purpose as her union with Kronos, sacrificing her well-being for the good of a King. They kiss and Hera confronts the original perpetrator of her trauma, Kronos, ready to end the cycle of her abuse once and for all.

Like, the plot is right fucking there but Rachel keeps dumping it in favor of focusing on the boring ass heterocis nightmares that are Hades and Persephone, who get SO MUCH FUCKING SCREENTIME of just telling each other how amazing they are and how much they're in love (meanwhile we didn't even actually get to see or hear what Hera wrote in the letter to Echo, we have to just assume) but still tries to take credit for writing queer stories by just vaguely hinting at a queer relationship that has had zero development or actual screentime. It's Hestia and Athena all fucking over again.

It also doesn't bode well for LO passing the whole "bury your gays" test because Hera is literally marching to what she's expecting to be her death. So she's established as a bisexual character, just for her to be sent to her death, while Echo will undoubtedly get shoved out of the plot again.

And, I shouldn't even have to remind y'all of this, but Hera has been racist to nymphs in the past and Echo was her direct subordinate, her personal assistant.

It just makes zero sense to me why Rachel would suddenly force in a queer relationship between two characters who weren't traditionally gay in the original myths (once again removing the queer aspects of CANONICALLY LGBTQ+ GODS AND GIVING THEM TO THE STRAIGHTS INSTEAD) when Hera's story had more than enough to work with through her trauma from both Kronos and Zeus and her loyalty as the goddess of marriage that's kept her trapped in a loveless and abusive relationship. So now instead of having a subplot that could have been about the goddess of marriage realizing that no one should have to stay in a marriage that's robbing them of joy and the "sanctity of marriage" isn't worth being miserable for life, we have a subplot where the goddess of marriage who is racist to nymphs routinely cheats on her husband and now confesses her love to a nymph who we never even saw her interact with outside of two instances where it was simply a working relationship.

[chronicsyd]

"oh you can't say 'Vi doesn't love Jinx like she does Powder' cause with that logic Jinx doesn't love Vi either"

okay, I'll bite. Jinx and Vi Both don't "love" who the other's grown into. Because after being separated for seven years they Both had misconceptions on how the other would turn out like. Vi thought Jinx would be still Powder who was simply being Forced to work with Silco, not that she was Willingly working for him and took the insecurities both Vi and Mylo bestowed upon her and made it her new name/self. Jinx, on the other hand thought that Vi would continue to love her unconditionally no matter How she turned out.

But they were both Wrong.

Despite Sevika telling Vi that Jinx calls herself "Jinx" now, she calls out "Powder" when the two first meet up again, most likely being overwhelmed by seeing her for the first time in seven years, but she continues to treat Jinx like the 11-12 year old that Vi Used to know, much to Jinx's dismay. But you can see the cracks start to form for Vi when she A) talks about her regret in even calling her "Jinx" in the first place and B) when the two are fighting the Firelights and she sees the glee in Jinx's expression in killing them, and it just gets worse from there on out for her. Because that's not the girl that Vi knew, she's changed. And despite everything Vi can't bring herself to love who this new girl is now. Yes, Vi has sat in denial saying she can "get her back", which is part of the problem, Vi's too stuck on trying to get "Powder" back and having things go back to the way they used to be (so yes, Vi doesn't "love" Jinx in the way that she does Powder, people aren't wrong for saying that). And the way Jinx deems that Vi Can "get Powder back" is too much for her, and Vi can't agree with what her sister Wants. She tries to compromise with her sister by "leaving everything behind" but Jinx's own demons don't trust her, and Vi can't see how much distress she's putting her sister in when she tells her to remember Mylo, Claggor and Vander (cause Vi's still set in her ways of "getting Powder back" during this moment).

But on Jinx's side, she claims that Vi "changed to". And it doesn't solely have to do with Caitlyn. She thought that Vi could bring herself to love who Jinx's turned into, despite all her flaws ("I thought, maybe you could love me like you used to. even though I'm... different."), Vi would always be there for her, because that's how Vi's been in the past. Vi's voice from Jinx's past were the thing that kept Jinx going all these years, she said so herself. Despite everything (Mylo's bullying, Powder's insecurities, etc.), the two always had each others backs growing up. The old Vi probably wouldn't've thought twice about hurting an Enforcer, but This Vi can't bring herself to shoot Caitlyn, she simply couldn't do it. And that's too much for Jinx to comprehend. I don't think Jinx can comprehend how or why Vi has let herself grow so attached to this enforcer that she's met merely a couple of days ago but can't show the same for Jinx herself.

Honestly, it's an issue for the both of them, they're both remembering how the other Used to be. And expecting them to still behave in that same way, and grasping with the changes that the other have made has been hard for the both of them.

So, keeping all that in mind; let's talk about "being opposite of what they were in S1" for the both of them shall we? (I'm also gonna add Christian Linke's (co-creator) thoughts from a few days ago as well. I have a lot more to say on Vi than Jinx)

Vi: The main change for S2 compared to S1 is her relationship with Jinx. She probably loses that last remaining hope/denial that she'll ever get Powder back, and with that grows a newfound determination to put an end to the suffering that Jinx has caused. And probably harbors anger and resentment towards Jinx due to her actions. Now deep down would I say there's still love for her sister? hard to say (she probably does in her heart, but her head is going to be leading her this season more than ever) but what I Can say with certainty is that outright forgiveness is off the table. Vi joins the enforcers because she feels what she's doing is right; whether or not you agree is irrelevant. Vi believes she's responsible in the "creation" of Jinx and that what Jinx has done is her responsibility, harboring Vander's words from her past (Christian goes on to ask "can you forgive a monster?" and I think that's what Vi's head sees Jinx as right now, the monster that she created). There's also a discussion of Vi's amnesia from League lore but I don't have certainty if that's going to be put into play this season or not, so something to keep in the back of your mind (for now at least).

Jinx: In S1, Jinx had an unhealthy codependent relationship with Silco due to being tormented by the demons of her past. But with Silco being dead and Vi being committed to taking her down she'll have no one to turn to in the way that she did with Silco. Sure, Sevika's there but their relationship will look nothing like it did with Jinx and Silco. Jinx will have to live for herself and discover her own identity and her own wants for her future; whatever that future holds for her.

[melrosing]

poor gurm. hotd has it problems but I do believe the showrunners are trying to make a good product. unlike d&d who gurm should rightfully resent...no way there's not a bit of projecting in any hotd criticism from him.

i think it’s probably complicated, like I get the impression that the HOTD showrunners have gotten carried away with the changes they made in S1 and now it’s demonstrable that they just don’t really have the raw talent to spin this story into something new, try as they might. I don’t think they were ever wrong for changing things up in adaptation, F&B practically requires that - but they are to blame for the shoddy execution

but apart from that I’m starting to get the impression that for GRRM it’s more complicated than that. if I had to guess, I’d say that after GOT, he was clear with HBO that he wants more faithful adaptations going forward, and he wants his opinion to count for something, and that’s why he signed. like if he’s this mad about Maelor the Missing, how mad was he when a whole host of characters and subplots were missing from GOT and the rest were butchered?? I’m gonna guess pretty mad. but he had to surrender on that count because he hadn’t finished his books and D&D + everyone involved wanted the show to end.

HOTD was supposed to be different, and it sounds like it hasn’t been. Condal suggested that removing Maelor was only temporary, only now it looks like it wasn’t, and GRRM is annoyed about that - I think he feels lied to or left out of the loop, when that was exactly what he didn’t want this time. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was initially a plan to leave Daeron out similarly, because he was conspicuously unmentioned in S1 and the Daeron references in S2 were really shoehorned in seemingly at the last minute.

and GRRM has been saying he feels like perhaps he ought to stop caring and get on with the books (I would love it if he did) but he’s still so obviously annoyed about how his work has consistently been adapted poorly and that despite all promises he can’t do anything to stop it. especially as he’s apparently mentioned all this in connection with a growing consciousness of his age and his legacy, im gonna speculate that seeing adaptations like this is really grieving him. so i feel a little bad for team hotd because i think they’re really trying, but imo they aren’t doing a good job and even if GRRM’s expectations are too high sometimes, i think it’s been plain since the fall out from GOT that he is well worth listening to.

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

Carmy had an anxiety attack and Sydney stopped it

The Bear | 3x3 | Hands

Let us not overlook the fact that this season Miss Adamu ALSO reverted another one of his attacks, just because we focus on her girlboss speech. OK? The girl bossing is great, sure, but that's not the point.

The point is that Carmy was having a stress-induced anxiety attack in the middle of service, which given S2 eps 9 and 10, was bound to happen this season, of course. And Syd stopped it. Very Sydcarmy material, IK. THAT IS THE POINT. But the B side of that point is that so far I saw NO ONE on Tumblr focusing on that part of this scene, unfortunately. Please make my day and correct me if I'm wrong. Show me a post where this guy is showed some compassion when analyzing this scene, and not a post just cheering up on her girlboss one-liner and butch-femme energy. It's like no one cares. Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL ABOUT that girlboss vibe too, one thing doesn't cancel the other one out in my book. But go ahead, show me that post that highlights his anxiety attack too when meta-analyzing that scene, I haven't found it yet. I'm not gonna lie, because of course I prefer to be right than popular: It pains me and infuriates me in equal measure that just because we all love Syd, some people seem to think that's some sort of license to completely disregard Carmy's mental health deprecating by the minute throughout the entire season, in a rather painfully obvious way, since he got out of that walk-in.

Anyway... Moving on. There's more.

Her words or even energy were not what calmed him down and prompted him to get out of the anxiety attack zone and collect himself, it was looking at her eyes. They locked eyes, held their gazes, and only then he was finally able to get it together. In that order, as can be clearly seen in the vid above. It’s the order what matters, he calmed down AFTER locking eyes for a moment, you can see the shift in his energy not as she was telling him she couldn’t babysitter him but AFTER looking at her with piercing eyes for a sec.

Anxiety attacks and panic attacks are not the same. I encourage you to do the research because if you really care you will and this post is not supposed to be educational, I'm not in the mood for that today, this post is cathartic for me. What I will say though is that patients with panic attacks also suffer from anxiety and can also have anxiety attacks. Some even find it hard to differentiate one from the other. Professionals don't. The difference is quite clear: The build-up, the symptoms, the intensity, the duration, etc. Carmy is a C-PTSD textbook case.

The stressor that triggered his anxiety attack this time around was the lack of HANDS, which can also be a metaphor for the lack of help Carmy gets. Syd is pretty much the only one who really helps him. Ever. He's surrounded by people, yet very alone. Granted, he's not the best at asking for help, and he's not the best leader either, and there's only so much Nat can do being in her 3rd trimester and all, etc, so like I said, it was bound to happen to him, and it did, and when it did, Syd put out the fire with her presence and her calm.

She didn't patronize him, he's not a victim around her, he's just himself. He's certainly not cool-relaxed Logan either, she's not his babysitter, and she's just as stressed out as he is, but she compensated his lack of temperance with her peace firmness, and he responded to it. Because even in the middle of an anxiety attack, Carmy never gets his eyes off the prize. HE HAS TO WIN THAT STAR FOR HER, NO MATTER THE COST → She's his star.

Let us please also notice the fact that the C person MADE YET ANOTHER APPEARANCE IN THE MIST OF HIS ATTACK. That's the guilt I mentioned HERE, eating him away inside and causing him apprehension in the least convenient moment because once an anxiety attack strikes, your defenses are down and whatever you are trying to bury deep down your psyche comes up full force. So she keeps contributing to his anxiety even when they're not even together anymore. Classic.

He also thought about the other source of guilt that is eating him away, his fallout with Richie and how his Cousin didn't forgive him yet, even when he apologized to him and told him he loved him.

Another stressor: GUILT.

OK. Thanks for coming to my TED talk about how Syd calms Carmy the fuck down every single time and I need him to do the same for her in the hallway in 04x01 and return the favor, or I will set FX on fire. Because in case you didn't notice, this post was actually about THAT.

Bonus track: To calm down he willingly tried to think of things and people that bring him peace, and not only he definitely didn't think of C at that moment, he thought of Nat, of his time in CA and in Copenhagen, and this time around HE DID NOT ALLOW HIMSELF TO THINK ABOUT SYD, WHO HE KNEW WOULD HAVE ENDED THE EPISODE ON THE SPOT. He deliberately didn't. But she showed up and did the trick anyway:

Remember to follow my tag #Gingerpovs 💋

[chaifootsteps]

Lightweights podcast interview: Viv says the rest of the story is about the ‘Goetic’ society (not even a word btw) with kings, other princes explored and stolas perspective in all of that, amongst ‘all these new characters’ Dear god stop adding characters woman. She also said if stolas died there would be no show.

jeez, Viv isn't even trying to pretend Blitz or IMP are the main characters anymore

this is the biggest criticism people have of the show and she just admits it's totally the case and she's doubling down on it?

and thing is, how the nobles work and what the stakes are for this stupid divorce is something the show should flesh out. but it should have done it long before now and just in the background of its B plot

it boggles my mind Viv thinks she's improved as a writer when she keeps doing everything backwards and her stans insist it's good writing when she fixes problems she shouldn't have caused in the first place

I'm so out after s2. I'm never bothering to watch an episode in full again, I'll just read summaries to see how bad it gets. I could care less about Stolas' family drama if it takes over the whole show

also 'there's no show without Stolas'. besides him usurping Blitz, way to kill the tension completely whenever he's in danger. he's obviously never gonna die, the audience is just with him forever

"I've improved as a writer. Also, there's no show without my favorite character that my audience is increasingly saying they hate."

Oh, Viv. Don't ever change...just kidding, it's obvious you never will.

[queerfandomtrifecta]

How Izzy’s Death Could’ve Made Basic Storytelling Sense

Just to be clear, Izzy is my favorite and I wanted him to live more than anything. This isn’t about that, and that is NOT why I hated his death. Had it served the narrative in a way that made even the most basic storytelling sense, while I’d admittedly have been devastated in a different way (i.e. the character whose queerness was relegated to the subtext in s1 and as soon as it’s textual and his whole arc is that he’s killed, but that’s a whole separate post…), but at least there would’ve been a correctly crafted arc from a surface level narrative standpoint that ended in the death of my favorite character. But that’s not what this is about. It’s is about how the show could’ve actually made the death actually make sense and work effectively. (Also, if you want my unasked for thoughts on how most of the existing plot of s2 (minus 7-8) could’ve easily been adjusted to fix the narrative as a whole and keep Izzy alive, I wrote this)

But. For those in the fandom insisting that Izzy HAD to die, including DJenks who has said as such in interviews (for reasons I do not understand), from an objective developmental editor standpoint, this is what I think needed to change to make Izzy’s death serve the narrative, character arcs and dynamics, pacing, structure, and thematic elements correctly.

It’s about 2K words just so you know what you’re gonna get into. Spoilers under the cut.

Issue 1. Izzy’s relationship with the crew and how they truly became his family this season totally vanished during his death scene. The same crew who he protected from Ed during the later, worse parts of the Kraken phase. The crew who banded together to save his life by hiding him from/lying to Ed about it, and amputating his leg to save him. The crew he saved by crawling up those stairs during the storm, hobbling out into the rain with one leg and shooting Ed before he could shoot a cannon ball through the mast and kill them all. The crew who called him “our dick”. The crew that then banded together with Stede’s half of the crew to him the leg and the new unicorn (aka the figurehead of the ship). That crew didn’t cry a SINGLE tear when he died. What?? Fang sobbed most of episode one and really lost it when Izzy got shot. Where was that when he died?? Izzy’s last speech to Ricky had something along the lines of: piracy is about belonging/family. We are Good. (Forgive me, I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the gist). Izzy truly did find his family in the crew outside of Ed. That was absolutely fantastic, especially in the first four episodes and episode six. It VANISHED when he was dying and dead.

The fix: To make the death impactful, effective, or even to make it make sense on a very basic acting and writing level, the crew should’ve been utterly DEVASTATED. At least heartbreaking music and like 30 seconds of everyone breaking down and holding each other. At least some of them crying and holding each other in the background when he was dying. Come on.

Issue 2. Thematically speaking, is piracy Good or Bad? Again, Izzy tells Ricky that they (the pirates/his crew) are capital G Good. Yet Ed has spent a lot of time maintaining piracy is capital B Bad. He tells the urchins as such. Here’s some money that I never had, now you don’t have to be pirates. Don’t be pirates. He doesn’t want Stede to kill Ned Low in cold blood. Ed just doesn’t want to be a pirate. Even at the end AFTER Izzy dies telling Ed he’s with his family (implied that this is the crew) and they love Ed, Ed LEAVES THAT FAMILY AND LEAVES PIRACY IMMEDIATELY. We’re left with him and Stede watching the family Izzy swore was Good and loved Ed sail away because Ed thinks piracy is Bad. Which is it?? The death served nothing in convincing Ed he could be happy with his found family on the sea as Ed, not Blackbeard, so the dying words were pointless. The thematic elements are all over the place (for the whole season but that’s another post) and that needs changing to make the death scene make sense.

The fix: Izzy should’ve told him he sees he doesn’t want to pirate anymore, he’s glad he’s found love with Stede because Izzy isn’t going to make it, go run your fokkin’ inn, you twat (affectionate).

Issue 3. Izzy died of bad planning and bad luck. Why didn’t they take the gun from Ricky? Between Spanish Jackie, Izzy, and Jim, SOMEONE would’ve thought about it. If not those three, someone else would’ve, but come one. One if not all of those three would’ve known better. Yeah, Izzy happened to be standing in front of Ed and he got shot instead of him, but you’ve gotta be REALLY looking for that to even be aware it’s what happened. It wasn’t even on purpose unless Ed strategically placed himself behind Izzy (which I doubt was the intent). Izzy didn’t position himself protectively/take the bullet for anyone on purpose. It was just happenstance and you only notice it if you’re rewatching and hyper-analyzing everything (which a lot of us, me included, in the fandom do, but casual watchers don’t. It’s totally unclear as far as the surface level narrative goes) Any sort of “heroism” is not acknowledged, it’s barely even noticeable in the shot. If that was the intent, it HAD to be clearer and acknowledged by the characters so the audience would realize the stakes and repercussions of clear choices. As it is, I don’t think it was intentional. If Izzy HAS to die, it should truly have rounded out his arc in a way that CLEARLY changed the course of the scene, leaving him to protect people he’d put in danger at the end of s1. It didn’t. It just read as terrible planning to the point of it being out of character for more than one character, and bad luck.

The fix: Izzy should’ve saved someone. I personally don’t like the idea of it being Ed. I’s have rather he save Stede (Not really, but it’s better than Ed I guess) But really Izzy should’ve died saving the crew. The crew makes the most sense to me, narratively speaking. He’s their figurehead, he’s protected the Kraken Crew for months and they should’ve been fiercely loyal to him, he blames himself for what Ed did to them (more on this later) so it makes sense for him to fiercely protect his crew. His family. Who should’ve been devastated that it happened because Izzy is the one character of the main three who’s managed to earn that status this season.

Issue 4. The death did not serve to move the plot along. There are literally zero things that would’ve been different for the end of the episode, save Izzy being alive and on the Revenge in his rightful role he earned with his crew as the captain, if he’d have lived. Ed and Stede aren’t partnering with Zheng to go after the guy who killed him in the next season. Nope. They got the offer but nah. They’re running an Inn. Which Izzy would’ve supported based on literally everything we’ve seen from him in episodes 5-8. The crew who Izzy protected fiercely and who viewed him as their leader? Not one tear during his death or the the funeral. Happily sailing away to do presumably more Muppet Treasure Island hijinks. No character development happened. No plot development happened. The season could’ve ended literally the EXACT SAME WAY with Izzy alive aboard the Revenge!!! No stakes were changed at all. No one was impacted enough for it to seem like it was even going to be a plot obstacle next season. It just happened, Izzy’s toxic situationship who maimed him multiple times over the course of months to the point of his leg needing to be amputated was sad for one (1) scene, then we moved on and did not seem sad at all at the funeral. What.

The fix: The plot should’ve been driven by the death. Ed and Stede (but especially Ed), and DEFINITELY the crew should’ve been sailing off plotting to avenge the death and defend piracy against Ricky and the British, especially with Zheng who lost her whole fleet. Ricky and the British are clearly (or so I hope, nothing’s clear here anymore tbh) the primary antagonist for the theoretical third season. No one should be running an whim-based inn for fun or sailing off happily into the sunset after the death of the most major character aside from Ed and Stede, who beyond proved himself a major part of something every character (his family) should’ve cared about this season. If he HAD to die, that death should have furthered the plot. But instead, it seems everyone shrugged it off with tears exclusively from Ed.

Issue 5. Izzy got shot in the left side. The side in which canonically NO ONE DOES FROM BEING INJURED ON IN THE OFMD UNIVERSE.

The fix: Yeah I know this is just too nit-picky but it was also just SO sloppy. Like just shoot him on the other side if he has to die, because this was a very memorable plot point more than once in s1. Like, come on y’all.

Disclaimer: Issues/fixes 1-5 would all need to happen together to truly fix it and make the death serve the narrative correctly. Issue/fix 6 is a totally separate route, which I personally hate, but at least the narrative would’ve made sense this way.

Issue 6. The idea that Izzy had to die so that Ed could be free of Blackbeard makes no sense at this point in the story. Ed already threw away his leathers and gave away his treasure to symbolically get rid of Blackbeard, and Izzy very sweetly encouraged him to follow the feeling that throwing out the leathers gave him. Izzy told Stede that he and Ed were good for each other. They balance each other out. Izzy is on good terms with both of them and their relationship, so Izzy “having to die” so Ed could flourish as Ed genuinely makes no sense and came totally out of left field.

The fix for 6: This one stands alone and is my absolute least favorite option, but if it HAD to happen without the 1-5 fixes, here’s how it could’ve made sense. If THIS is truly the way it was going to end, Izzy needed to be continuously antagonistic or avoidant to at least Ed and actually be shown holding Ed back from happiness until that last second. He wasn’t. He was so much better. Izzy clearly does blame himself (that’s for a separate post because I have lots of thoughts there) but to be fair they were both abusive in that relationship, for years it seems. Although I think by the beginning of s2, the power dynamic has clearly flipped and it was Ed who was doing most of it and Izzy was exhausted and knowingly “reaping what he’d sewed” (I don’t Blame Izzy for his abuse but I think this was his mindset) so the crew wouldn’t get the brunt of it.

If he seriously HAD to die because the writers just had to have it that way, those are the changes I think would’ve made the narrative work/make sense, served all the character arcs and dynamics correctly, and actually driven the plot as fictional deaths are supposed to, compelling things into a third season. Seriously, this season finale was a mess of baffling choices the most series finale season finale I’ve ever seen.

Anyway. There’s my unsolicited two-cents. Now back to hoping Izzy’s in the gravy basket waiting to be sea witch necromancied back by seagull Buttons in season 3. I love this show and I hate hating what I hate hating about it because it’s my absolute favorite and I can’t stand it because it’s fantastic and the worst thing I’ve ever seen. (Also, Izzy should’ve lived).

[ladyluscinia]

"What if it weren't like that?"

...or I'd like to propose a different theory of what's going on in Edward's head.

Going into the S2 finale, I feel like there's once again a huge consensus that Edward and piracy are an unsustainable mix, and he has to quit. Specifically after 2x07 he knows for sure, 100% that he wants to quit, and he's pulling away from Stede because he doesn't know how to communicate that certainty to him.

There's a very established meta framework backing up this belief. It's not new, just everyone pointing and saying "look! - the show is affirming us" at the same time. And it does make a lot of points about foundational trauma, the violence of the lifestyle, etc. I don't need to break it down for you. If you're seeing this post then you've seen the arguments before.

The thing is... I'm not actually sold on this read.

Edward is a complicated guy and I love to try and peel back his layers, and I'm not sure that retirement is truly his endgame. And maybe more importantly... I'm not sure retirement endgame is quite the thematic crescendo it's being presented as.

So let's talk a bit about Edward, particularly in 2x06 and 2x07.

---

Edward's Ongoing Depression Spiral

The thing about backsliding - and the Kraken was a pretty monumental backslide - is that even if you gain a lot of ground afterward, you still might not be much further than where you started.

Edward believing change is possible with Button's 2x04 guidance + his & Stede's conversation about taking it slow at the end of 2x05 are both huge steps for a guy that was openly suicidal at the beginning of the season. However, in the grand scheme of things, he's pretty much cycled back to the dilemma he was facing in S1 - continuing life as it was is intolerable, but he doesn't actually have a solid idea of what he wants. "Stede" is not a real, actionable answer.

In S1, this caused him to run recklessly into extremes of vulnerability with Stede because Stede was doing something different. He tried to metaphorically cut loose his entire history - as a pirate, as Blackbeard, as Edward Teach - and become a new "Ed" with no baggage, who was free to live an endless vacation honeymoon with his new boyfriend. And when the consequences of their own actions came crashing back in - an abandoned Izzy, Spanish Jackie, and Chauncey Badminton - Edward's desperate actions to save Stede turned into over-commitment to a guy he barely knows, a reckless plan to run halfway around the world to escape himself, and then a truly disastrous downturn when that blew up in his face.

Wherever you go, there you are - except Edward hates that guy. Edward's only concrete want so far for the new direction of his life is the one thing that's impossible - to not be Edward Teach.

So now, back to contemplating the same unknown future he was trying to chase in S1, the Kraken Era has given Edward new perspective, for better and worse. (I'm gonna link my rambling BlackHands / Kraken Era thoughts from 2x01 - 2x03 just because.) He's learned caution and is dipping his toes in self-reflection - Stede's love alone is not enough to save him, and his self-loathing has been acknowledged. Reckless pursuit of change without growth was doomed - an important lesson both Stede and Edward have started to learn.

Unfortunately, growth requires looking backwards, and if Edward was already disinclined to that due to killing his dad, he's struggling so much worse now that he's got months of fresh atrocities that he absolutely did not need to commit.

---

Drowning in Guilt

Edward's core trauma that he flashes to constantly goes back to killing his dad that night - something notably not associated with piracy. That guilt is the root of his self-loathing, but Edward is a rather troubled grown man with guilt aplenty, especially after the first two episodes of S2.

In 2x05 Edward starts with a CEO scripted non-apology firmly recategorizing all of his Kraken actions as "whatever that nasty dark stuff was that brought us here... it's in the past", and then his discussion with Stede does not involve too much reflection on why this probation is necessary and drops this gem:

"Oh fuck no. Apologizing? Nah. Didn't apologize for jack shit."

However - demonstrating self awareness / growth - he's also clearly projecting guilt and a desire (that's almost too big to look at) to apologize to Izzy for everything, and then he honestly talks with Fang (who he's known for 20 years!) about how he can not be understandably mad at him, after Fang pushes back on Edward's toxic rewriting of Knife Parade. He even learns to sit with himself!

All of which makes the start of 2x06 so layered.

We open with Edward sitting with himself, looking out over the ocean and stewing in guilt - in order: his dad, the storm, Izzy's toe, shooting Izzy, driving the crew to mutiny - and then the conversation that Edward was haunted by all last episode comes to him. He's back in his leathers - playacting the penitent with the onesie and cat bell got old after a day, and he had never truly linked his probation rules with any of his earnest feelings of remorse. Just a necessary performance to appease the crew.

Now he's himself again, as uncomfortable in his own skin as ever, and Edward Teach apologizes for Izzy's leg. He isn't being demanded to apologize by Izzy (no matter how much he may deserve it). Izzy is fully prepared to pretend it never happened despite the evidence of his body. But Edward wants to - needs to for the babiest step toward his own peace of mind - and so he does.

And then he flees from one guilt and accidentally stumbles into another. Stede has so helpfully pulled all Edward's Kraken treasure into one place, and Edward lampshades it:

"Excellent. A reminder of all my guilt. A guilt room."

Now, Stede has a decent idea here. His "poison into positivity" bit is not bad (and it echoes the language Izzy and Edward used - though I think it's a tossup whether Stede heard about that or if the parallel is purely on a Doylist level). It definitely lifts Edward's mood for the day and pulls him out of his guilt spiral for a bit.

Until it comes back so much worse.

Ned Low. Oh fuck the implications of Ned Low.

So here's the thing. People have rightly observed that Edward broke Ned's record intentionally during Kraken Era. In fact, since he makes the comment about "We got a record to break" after the wedding boat aka the last ship he takes, and Ned isn't coming after him for a tie, presumably he set the new record and then proceeded to break it over and over again. Just to rub it in. Just to really piss the sadist off.

And if Edward's attempt to take the whole ship and crew down with a storm at his lowest point was bad, what he was courting by baiting Ned before the season even started was worse. This is a man who would have tortured everyone on the breakup boat to death when he caught up to them, and Edward was passively planning on letting him do it.

Edward knows this.

Poison into positivity just became "oh shit I forgot I'm the most poisonous thing any of these people have ever run into," and he's just getting started. It's hard to shove it down and brush it off and pretend it was no big deal when Stede starts getting the hot poker to the chest.

He doesn't want to kill Ned because he's not worth the poison, but the poison is already here.

When Stede kills Ned, Edward has already spiraled. He's already got a whole narrative in his head about how this is all his fault, how this is his poison, his guilt, his Kraken surfacing to ruin Stede too.

"I'm not a good person, Stede. That's why I don't have any friends," Edward chokes out.

"It all boils down to this - You're afraid you're unlovable," snarls Hornigold's ghost in the gravy basket.

"I hate myself," Edward realizes.

"Don't do it, Stede. Killing in cold blood" - like I did - "you can't come back from that" - like I haven't.

Edward's guilt is projecting all over this scene. He's made some baby steps toward seeing Stede as a flawed person vs mythical mermaid whose love can save him, but the idealization is still coloring both their views. Stede still hasn't told Edward about any of his childhood traumas or deep seated insecurities, and Edward has continuously avoided putting together that Stede is fucked up as well. He's convinced himself that killing Ned Low is a great tragedy that will permanently scar Stede's previously unblemished goodness in a way that is all Edward's fault, and he's sticking to it despite how completely it does not apply.

Reality has never been much good at breaking through his self-loathing before.

Izzy tries to warn him to give Stede a minute, but Edward doesn't listen. And while there's a good amount of concerned boyfriend in that act, I also suspect there's more than a little self-harm. Edward's spiraling about what he's wrought. He shows up at Stede's door already paralleling this to killing his dad. Of course he wants to be in the blast radius.

Apparently, having sex about it.

---

"Bye-Bye" Blackbeard, See You Again Soon

Last season, when Edward's ignoring his past went poorly, he tried to metaphorically bundle Blackbeard and all his traumas up and cast them into the sea. He was "Edward Teach Born-on-a-Beach," and then "No-Beard" who found folding stuff in prison fun, and then he's kissing Stede and getting excited about picking new, cool names for China, because:

"Our old lives would be gone. Dead. Never were."

Edward, babygirl, that is not how that works.

Now, he's actively backsliding down a guilt spiral, just had ill-advised sex a day after the "take it slow" talk that he's already regretting, and he gets up in the morning, pulls on another goddamn robe, and goes to literally bundle Blackbeard up and cast him into the sea.

Babe you already tried this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that disposing of his leathers signals Edward is back to reckless change instead of intentional change. He tries to make breakfast in bed despite never having ever made breakfast before and explains his twine as a panicked decision. The idealization of Stede is back in force - he chooses now to tell him about the mermaid vision - "fantastic," he describes him - and thanks him for saving his life. (Once again, in times of trouble, Edward is the one offering up rosy imaginations for their relationship that swallow him whole and Stede is shoving his recent childhood trauma flashbacks down to be Normal™.)

In the Republic, Edward does avoid becoming straight up jealous of all Stede's positive infamy, but he's also doing his hardcore all or nothing thing again - this time running away from himself toward a grubby, poor, "nobody" version of Ed (or do we think he's gonna try "Jeff" again?). Jackie calls his attention to how his new life direction (as of 6 hours ago) is not necessarily aligned with Stede's, and - rather than doing something as crazy as talking - he mutters "shit" and heads to the docks where Izzy finds him.

For a guy who felt "Fucking great" throwing away his leathers, Edward sounds kind of sarcastic, even if I'm sure he's feeling just as light as he was on that Naval Academy beach. But Izzy - going through his own shit but still trying to be supportive - opened this conversation with a joke about Stede and I suspect thinks they are talking about putting the "Edward retiring to be with Stede" plan back on the table. (Edward could clear this up, but he's still not communicating his emotions to Izzy.) So Izzy encourages him:

"Maybe you should listen to it."

Edward's face falls, he looks back down at the fishing boat, and apparently gets himself a new job. He just needs to go dump his boyfriend about it. They're simply incompatible, you see?

Edward's a fisherman now. He's gonna sit with himself until he finds a better guy in there, just like Fang taught him. (Don't blame Fang for this 😆 he just wanted Edward to stop talking!)

Now there's a lot going on in the breakup scene, but I want to talk about one statement Edward makes (keeping in mind he's already spiraled all the way into his new fisherman identity):

"I don't even know who I am! Alright, I know I don't want to be a pirate, but you..."

Because, see - I don't think the second part of that is necessarily true.

It's not that Edward doesn't want to be "a pirate". That's what he's using as shorthand (and a way to strongly delineate his new career from Stede: "Fishermen and pirates - they're nothing alike.").

What he's not saying is, once again, I know I don't want to be Edward Teach.

And, babygirl, I love you... but too fucking bad.

---

Better Piracy as a Theme

There's a lot of meta around about how Edward views piracy as a kind of enforced toxic masculinity. How his traumas are woven so thoroughly into his Blackbeard career that the thought of continuing as a pirate is killing him. He has to retire. It's the only way he'll truly be happy as "just Edward."

And I question that framing.

Like... Edward clearly has trauma tied up in piracy. His time on Hornigold's ship appears to have defined his (and Calico's Jack's) fairly fucked up approach to casual violence. His time as Blackbeard has enabled his poor impulses, and he is absolutely sick of piracy as he's experienced it the first time we meet him. That's not in question.

But while leaving is one solution, I think change is another.

In the OFMD universe, piracy is not a stand-in for toxic masculinity. Stede, an outsider, describes it as a "culture of abuse" in the first episode, but it's the culture of piracy where we see openly gay relationships, polyamory, freedom of expression in clothing and presentation, the oppressed having power... to treat piracy as inherently toxic is to deny that the culture of piracy is what gave life to Calypso's Birthday party. Our main characters are pirates.

There is a lot of violence and most pirates are very troubled people, but it's not piracy's fault. That's getting the cause and effect reversed. The "problem" with piracy and pirate culture is that the people coming into it and building this community are already traumatized.

As Edward points out to Stede:

"It's usually something like that. It's often family-based stuff."

(Also the problem might be the pirate Captains, lol. I mean, if you start listing the major drivers and enablers of toxic culture... Hornigold, Ned Low, Calico Jack, Blackbeard. Fortunate, then, that the crew of the Revenge is demonstrating that piracy can also be about workers' unions and supporting each other against your shitty boss while operating in a thriving community. He can play nice or get out.)

Oluwande tells us from the start that people don't choose to be pirates - they get forced into it by terrible circumstances in a terrible society. Piracy is the community that accepts the outcasts, but it can't magically fix them. They have to do that themselves, which our crew is showing can be done.

Stede did not swan in with all the answers, but he gave his crew the space and all the confused-yet-well-meant support they needed to strengthen their own bonds and community. Oluwande and Frenchie especially have been really stepping up in leadership positions. Like, the whole plot of 2x05 was showing they have successfully formed a union and that they will operate as a united front against their captains if need arises. It's so good!

They are living that better culture that Stede wanted so bad, and it's not just our crew.

Piracy influenced by the Revenge crew has been shown as helpful and even desirable to chase.

Hellcat Maggie and the rest of Low's crew don't sail off to get new jobs - they are resuming piracy but this time talking about profit sharing. Anne and Mary, our oh so aggressive BlackBonnet mirrors, retired from piracy together like Edward was dreaming of in 1x09, and what "fixes" them is burning it all down and returning to piracy (rejecting Mary's fears) with their love at the forefront of their minds.

Edward wants to leave piracy behind forever because he has depression and hates himself, but the biggest thing he hates himself for isn't even a thing he did as a pirate. He's pushing back on his Hornigold trauma from the moment we meet him - in fact, I have a whole other meta idea I need to pull together after the season about how he has potentially thought he was doing "soft piracy" in spite of Hornigold this whole time - but the guilt he feels about killing his dad is still too big for him to even look at. And that won't go away even if he could cut 20+ years of Blackbeard out of his chest.

He's bored. He was stagnating. He needs to address that knot of self-loathing before it successfully drowns him.

Maybe people are right and he could be the one pirate to find peace operating a bed and breakfast? Maybe he'll follow in Jackie's footsteps and stay connected to the community by running a gay bar or something?

But I also think, maybe, he has a community surrounding him, a home and love on the sea, and a career with plenty of aspects he did enjoy - sailing, fuckeries, luxuries, creative problem solving - and he might just need to join everyone in striving for a better culture?

And step one would be realizing that wherever he goes, he's still Edward Teach, and he's got to stop running from that fact.

[the-chessboard-is-personal]

people have hyped this up so much I'm scared (ii s2 post-s3 liveblog)

(/silly)

ahem. hi. post-watch Knight here, with a big tw: there is a suicide mention and intense death wishing at the end of this post. you can guess who it's directed towards but if you've already seen the episodes I don't think you'll get it wrong.

since there's only 3 episodes this one is going to work slightly differently, I'll have Big Text separating each of them and timestamp each different part of the liveblog. there will also be screenshots.

15:

(intro) wait Taco's trying to steal the win without even being a contestant? (4:48) "Don't Mention That Again" I've said it before it just feels like he speaks in capitalized words sometimes

(5:08) song?? THE SONG FUCKING SLAPS???

(8:02) hold on a moment I need to do someth[finds the song in isolation and adds it to the playlist Good Music]

(10:19) taco!! come on, bringing up beef at the show!

(12:48) "yes :)" oh what a bitch /affectionate

(15:49) tbh I agree with Knife here, if everyone respawns anyway, why is murder so bad? (<- building a death game in Minecraft)

(18:01) DAMNN holy shit, to think this isn't even canonically a scripted game, for Taco to say that?! aough

(19:45) HUH?? TACO CRACKED??? oh. OH she- she fucking died from stress- literally. oh shit. I- tbh I...can relate. I did that once. long story and I can't explain it here but.... holy shit.

(22:46) he's on a platform! MePad teleported him onto a platform!

(27:44) MePhone giving the "next time is the finale" speech rneanwhile there's two episode lef- oh shit

- after episode -

well that was a fucking cliffhanger. OH. MY. what!! WHAT!! COBS?? oh yeah also I don't hate Taco anymore. and the outro music slaps sdgkjhf

oh fuck I'm scared, onto the next episode!

16:

(1:00) HOKAY WELP RIGHT INTO ACTION. that was the same MePhone 3 from 4's memories wasn't it? were those other ones MePhone 2s??

(1:39) hough the parallels, I love this episode so far

(2:38) [his literal worst enemy is repeatedly trying to contact him directly] MePhone 4: [treats it like a minor annoyance]

oh also YIPPEE YINYANG IS THERE!!

(4:17) "are you offering?" lmao I wouldn't have even asked-

uhh

..? why is s3 so bad for Suitcase to hear about..?

(5:30) WHy is he HERE??

(7:28) what HEY IS PICKLE GONE FROM THE INTRO

(15:22) OH IT'S THE GUY. OH IT'S THE GUY o h OJ!! oagh but like. imagine that with humans. your friend starts panicking at something you can't hear or see, screams and then sUDDENLY THEIR FUCKING FACE IS GONE. that would be a neat analog horror actually

(18:32) he's just like me. he's just like me for real,, (<- also has trigger words)

(21:30) OH FUCK HE GOT NICKEL TOO

(23:42) wait- first Pickle then OJ, Nickel- no but OJ never got eliminated in s1. hm.

(25:30) wait- doesn't quite know what a frown looks like? d- does that rnean- wait wait nonono that was Cherry that yeeted Marshmallow-

(27:17) wait WAIT THIS HAPPENED WITH CABBY TOO DO NONE OF THEM HAVE PARENTS?? 27:27 no. nonon NO DON'T SAY IT DON'T YOU DARE DON';T YOU FCUKING DARE TELL ME [unpauses] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAKDSGJFK AGDFJKHAT'S WHY FAN GHLITCHEDD ADJKGF JAHLOUIAHF OSJHLKF HLA

- after episode -

OH MY HOUSEMATE WAS RIGH T I'M GONNA BR EA K OHH WHAT THE HELLfuck

hokay. okay. okayokayokaoyuayojoaykokoykaoykaokaoauuauhghhh

I am sane. I am normal. that's how he knows things. I need a break- okay so after like an hour, onto the next ep! wait is this the finale-

17:

(1:39) WHA- oh I misheard Knife as Knight.

(2:10) NO NOT TEST TUBE! (3:50) oh they're all going to-

(5:14) NO DON'T YOU DARE

,..,,.,why them,.., b.. but,theyre my favorites,,.

(11:34) wait they need to get that wire out of MePhone. that would stop MePhone X, right? but he doesn't know that..shit

(13:08) yeaAHHWHAT- oh. oh what

(15:14) let me guess Paintbrush got X'd while Fan was rambling. oh nvm. OH THE OTHER EGG IS PART OF MEPHONE 4?? oh that almost made me cry too- welp there goes lightbulb

(17:47) HUH??????????????? TOILET?????? wh a t .the fuck

(21:17) "cause that was pretty reductive!" oh they addressed it!

(22:48) o h. wh- what the HELL IS COBS'S PROBLEM?? LIKE WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM DOES HE NOT THINK MEPHONE4 IS ACTUALLY SENTIENT OR SOMETHING? DOES HE LIKE TORTURING HIM? EVERYONE'S FUCKING DEAD

(25:40) ohh no.. Bow probably can't be X'd anyway, does she really have to do. that. to someone .....sighhh. if Apple's okay with that happening (somehow) I guess it's not as scary. I won't understand the opinion but I don't really need to tbh.

(sorry no more timestamps I watched the whole rest of it speechless)

- after episode -

I- wh-

h-

but- he-

h-

h-

he- but he just- there was no- winner- Cobs- what about MePhone 3GS?? what abou-

h. hold on

hold on I need to. make an editr ealquick. just

relworld cursor editor almost crashed trying to save this