#iwtv tvc metas

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Tentative Timeline - The Date of Claudia's Coven Initiation

AMC, y'all think y'all so slick!

So I've been busy making revisions to my S2 timelines, after speaking with @usuallydeepalpaca-blog and @alleyskywalker, who've been absolute angels.

@usuallydeepalpaca-blog, you hit the nail on the head!

I was adding a June node to 1946 timeline, and was grabbing a screencap of Claudia asking Louis to come watch her join the coven. When I noticed Louis grab a newspaper, and I said WAIT, AMC.

My spirit told me that was a real newspaper, not a fake prop. According to Google, the only IRL newspaper that could be was L'Humanité, a communist newspaper really popular in Post-War Paris.

And then there was this:

I went into Humanity's 1946 archives, searched the June issues for anything mentioning "artistes français" and "l'art au service de la paix," and BAM.

So on Saturday, June 29, 1946, Claudia invited Louis to the initiation, which took place "the end of this week." So either Sunday, June 30, 1946; or Saturday, July 6, 1946.

And just for a bit of silliness! This is admittedly a reach, but check this, y'all:

"Armand Salacrou pour les au teurs et compositeurs, Louis Jouvet pour le théâtre...."

ARMAND WHOMST!? 👀

AMC, I'm finna smack y'all. XD

[murfpersonalblog]

Weaker/smaller people can operate on sheer adrenaline/fear/righteous indignation/anger/protective instincts to try defending themselves and their loved ones. Protecting your "built-like-a-bird" daughter from almost having her neck snapped by her MUCH stronger father is not being abusive, mutually or otherwise--it's being a PARENT.

I bet the show won't pull back at all, not if Lestat's monologue during the Trial is anything to go by; or Loustat's reunion, or what Rolin & Sam have repeatedly said about Claudia's memory haunting Les in S3. Les outright admitted that he tried to kill Louis. Lou already knew that, and still took him back in Ep6--when Les wasn't even (sincerely) apologetic!--and caught hell for it from Claudia & Daniel.

There's PLENTY of abuse victims who go back to their spouses--not just cuz they CAN'T leave, but cuz they don't WANT to leave. Cuz they DO love them, and they DO forgive them--regardless if that forgiveness is earned or not. I already mentioned Ray Rice cauight on camera knocking his wife TF out, and how she was talking big up in his face, just like Lou talked big to Les--right before he DECKED her with EASE and dragged out that elevator; just like Louis when Les dragged him across the courtyard by his effing jawbone & dropped him 1000 miles in the air. And guess what? Ray Rice's wife STILL married him afterwards, and AFAIK they're still married, and his wife keeps telling ppl to mind their effing business cuz she doesn't have to explain/justify her choice.

YES. 😂 Les realized that he'd grossly underestimated Claudia's intelligence, and the lengths Lou'd go to for Claudia--their daughter. Even so far as slitting Les' throat. He's PROUD of Claudia ("I see the best of my vampiric self in her"; "evil of my evil"), and he already said Lou was justified & and that he didn't deserve him (hence: letting Armand take his man).

AMC is developing Les's character--that's the whole point of TVC: watching his progression & redemption from the P.O.S. he was in IWTV, to becoming AR's hero & messianic savior in Blood Communion. We need to see him put in the work--coming to terms with how much of a trash husband he was to Lou, and how much of a deadbeat dad he was to Claudia. His backstory in TVL will show Les' misogyny towards his mother Gabrielle; and his insensitivity towards Nicki--Les taking accountability for everyone he loved but still FAILED. Les can be sympathetic and STILL be a crappy son, boyfriend, husband & father. "To have a think.... Why I do what I do."

Ray Rices got all kinds of therapy & talked thru his issues; and his relationship w/ his wife is apparently STRONGER & BETTER for it.

Eff them being vampires; that was Santiago's cop-out.

AMC is conveying a REAL MESSAGE about REAL LIFE. I've said a billion times that the whole point of GOTHIC HORROR is to hold a mirror to HUMANS so we can see the monster/beast WITHIN US.

Cuz this ish is REAL--people REALLY go through these things--and have to either OVERCOME their past trauma, or SUCCUMB to it and repeat the same vicious cycles of violence & abuse in the future. Loustat is endgame cuz Louis and Lestat OVERCOME. They learn how to be BETTER people--not necessarily "good" people, ofc, but they learn how to treat each other; and by realizing how bad the effed over Claudia (X X X), they try to do right by their next kids, Viktor and especially Rose.

Lestat tried to KILL Claudia, then threatened LOUIS with murder.

Les literally says that if Lou tries to fight him, "it will end in Louis' death"--LESTAT will murder Louis. As I've said 1000 times about Lestat as the Matador (meaning KILLER).

LOUIS' life is the one being threatened here. And he's in VERY serious danger, since Lestat has a century of advanced powers over Louis, plus Louis had been starving himself for the past 7 years. Lestat knew that once he got serious, he'd BREAK Louis for good.

Why on earth would Louis STOP fighting? Lestat was tryna kill their daughter AND him--out of petty spiteful jealousy and domineering Stockholm on steroids wife-in-the-freezer BS: if I can't have him, no one can--till DEATH do us part!

And why is it Lou's responsibility to lay down & take Les's behavior?

Just like I said--Lou's expected to just sit back and take being abused, insulted, harassed, ridiculed, demeaned & gaslit; but the second he stands up for himself (or for his daughter)? Omfg this wild animal's out of control; "disreputable, cold, violent!" He could've (read: should've) stopped at some point! Why didn't he walk away!?

Do y'all honestly believe that Lou "walking away" would've solved ANYTHING that night? Les asked over & over & over if Lou was gonna LEAVE him. Les was tryna keep Lou in that house--and he succeeded, crippling him & shattering every bone in his effing body. He BROKE Louis, cuz he was convinced that he'd already LOST Louis--to Claudia. Hence: Lestat tryna kill her! Hence: the fight! LES started it, and best believe HE ended it! 💀

I'm a Lestat fan, too. I've been reading TVC since the 90s, and AMC's only made me love these books & characters more & more. The whole point of personal journeys and character growth is that it's a PROCESS. Lestat IS a vampiric monster, yes--and he's also an abusive husband & father. He FINALLY apologized during the Trial & reunion; but how will he do BETTER going forward; to become a vampire WORTHY of Louis' love & forgiveness--unworthy in NOLA, unworthy in Paris; disregard!

I treat AMC's adaptation of these characters the way Gothic Horror as a genre treats monsters: as a WARNING; recognizing that they ARE human, reflecting the ugliness within all of US, IRL. In so doing, hopefully we can then do better by ourselves and each other; rather than pretending that things aren't a problem and ignoring/handwaving aside all the things that make us uncomfortable--or ruin the fantasy of the dreamy romantic fun hot guy we're in love with. Cuz he might just be a monster in disguise out to kill you, your kids, or anyone around you.

Seven years of compromise. Denial. It all gave way.

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Tentative Timeline (Pt2c) - Unreliable Narrators, Armand & the Trial

Thanks for the response to Pt2b, @usuallydeepalpaca-blog! I really want people to talk to me about the IWTV timelines, cuz this show is SO confusing! 😩😭

"I think if you create the timeline with info the show doesn't provide, i.e. Armand was involved from the start, then you're bound to get it wrong."

Absolutely. I fully expect that I got some stuff wrong, which is why I said it's a TENTATIVE Timeline.

I've in no way said it's THEE CORRECT™ timeline, cuz chile IDKWTF is going on. 😅 I openly say what confuses me, questions I have, and how I come to the conclusions that I draw. I'm being as transparent as possible to let y'all know that I DON'T know. 🤷 The show doesn't provide EVERYthing, so I'm just piecing things together in a way that makes an iota of sense to me, following the logic of what the show HAS provided. The only solid details we have are diehard IRL dates, that gave us a time range when certain events can/can't happen. AFAIK I'm working with the same set of details everyone else has, until AMC gives us more info in S3+. And unfortunately, the 2 biggest unknown variables are Lestat & Armand, and to what extent they were/weren't involved in the Trial that got Claudia killed & Louis buried alive.

"saying Armand messed with Louis' memories re: the trial is also something not supported by the show."

The show obvs. wants us to assume that Armand made Louis hallucinate Sam guarding him in the theatre box (thus painting Armand as a "captive" along with Louis & Claudeleine).

Even if Armand didn't use the Mind Gift on Louis, he lied at least twice:

lies by omission: letting Louis think a hallucination of Sam was real

lies to Louis' (& Daniel's) face: going along with the premise that he was Sam's "captive" & Armand sat there the whole time thinking of a way to rescue Louis

And we KNOW this is a lie, cuz Daniel calls it out explicitly, asking how Sam can be "in two places at once," allegedly "guarding" Armand, but ALSO helping to torture Louis in the Wet Room.

Armand never denied or contradicted Louis saying Sam was in either place. Maybe Louis really did misremember Sam being in the wet room--the ONLY one who can corroborate all this is SAM--whom Armand ALSO lies on, throwing Sam, Daniel & the Talamasca all under the bus by saying the script with his handwriting all over it was forged! No honor amongst thieves I guess! 🤣

(Eff Lestat's POV in S3--when is SAM gonna give HIS POV of the Trial?!)

So I'm operating on patterns of behavior, and the logic that if he's deliberately lying about one thing (a VERY BIG THING, actually), then what else is he lying about? How are you "atoning" for anything, when you're just heaping lies on top of gaslighting on top of manipulation?

Armand has used Louis' obvious confusion to his advantage, just going along with whatever will make him look better & more sympathetic. Which ofc, is the exact same thing he does with the "Banishment" lie. "They gave me a choice...I could not prevent it" is the truth and a lie all rolled into one incredibly manipulative cocktail, cuz if it was just a simple matter of Armand selling Claudia out to save Louis, that would be one thing--but Armand KNEW the script planned LOUIS' death the whole time. The "seismic lie" about "Banishment" effs up Armand's whole defense.

Cuz Sam already wrote the script in April 1949 (and I said this is confusing, cuz if it's the WHOLE script, then this implies Lestat's half was written by then, too, and NOT in September after the Eiffel Tower crime--which means he was ALREADY in Paris & working with the coven; inc. Armand (which would also explain WHY Armand took Louis to the library so much--perhaps anticipating that Loustat would feel e/o's presence if Louis was around the theatre too much? But that doesn't explain Claudia)--omfg I'm confused). Wtvr--we KNOW that at some point b/t April & September 1949, Armand made his edits & directed the entire production--from Santiago to Lestat to Tuan's projections--ALL of it. And we know Tuan's projections started being made in June/July 1949.

Armand KNEW Daniel had been given the OLD script from the archives, WITHOUT Armand's edits & directions, and LET Daniel AND Louis think that was the truth--

--same way he went behind Louis' back and removed extra pages from Claudia's diaries that would reveal MORE of his shenanigans--

--and the same way he lied about Nicki (& Gabrielle) in 2x3.

The show ALSO provides us with quotes like this:

And this:

And this:

Which in retrospect make Armand look even more insidious, esp. when we wonder to what extend Louis' been "driven to form new conclusions about myself" when he doesn't even KNOW himself; let alone WHAT memories he has that are real or false.

It's so effed up, and it makes me side-eye all the insistence that LOUIS is the one mostly at fault, when he's got literal double-hypnosis Brain Scramblies from WWDITS. 😭🤦

Ofc there are unknown-unknowns when dealing with unreliable narration. But there are also known-unknowns, too, that also make Armand sus.

Sure, Loumand was away at the library in July (IF that memory's even real, Mr. "I Had A Hunch")--but how on earth would Armand have NOT known that the coven was working on the Trial right under his nose for MONTHS prior & after July--Luchenbaum sewing new barrister costumes & wigs; Tuan painting projections & testing new lens/film tech; and Sam writing a new script (when we already KNOW Sam can't multitask when his "head's in a hat")?

July is only ONE month in over HALF A YEAR of Trial prep. Louis was never around the coven to know what was going on--but ARMAND was; it's where HE lives.

Whose POV was it that showed the whole coven passing around Claudia's diaries? Whose POV was it that revealed Santiago being called Maitre in every scene that ARMAND was also in?

Armand was in the park with Tuan when Tuan called Santiago Maitre; and Armand was in the theatre with Sam when Sam called Santiago Maitre--so this is clearly either Armand's POV telling on himself; or it's AMC screwing with us.

It's TRUE that Turning Madeleine was the straw that broke the camel's back, as Armand was like I can't keep THAT a secret from the coven, too (and ofc he couldn't--they're VAMPIRES; they'd FEEL a new vamp in their territory). But Loumand's problems PREDATE Madeleine; the same way Loustat's problems predate Claudia. I blame Les for not dealing with Lou's BS, just like I blame Armand, cuz THEY are the Coven Masters, NOT Lou--esp. cuz Armand had 14 other vamps in his coven he SHOULD be prioritizing over Lou. The same way Loustat's guilty of being bad fathers (which they BOTH admitted to), Armand's guilty of being a bad coven leader (which HE admitted to).

IMO, all this makes any & all discussion about Armand's trustworthiness difficult, when his "seismic lie" throws EVERYTHING else he's done into question. Esp. since the show ALSO provides us with the FACT that Armand knew from DAY ONE that Claudia lied about "Bruce"/Lestat; and that Louis was a terrible liar & terrible with the Mind Gift; and that he'd ALREADY planned on killing Louis in 2x3! Armand knew from the get-go that he couldn't do EFF ALL to keep Louis & Claudia out of danger, and TOLD Louis so.

"It also ignores that Louis softens his participation in certain things because he can't live with the guilt of his full participation, e.g. Claudia's turning, which he continued to lie to Claudia about even during the trial and only accepted the extent of his involvement in Dubai"

The Trial Timeline's purpose is to pinpoint when the preparations took place, NOT to hash out how bad of a father Louis was to Claudia. 🤨

And it certainly isn't meant to provide a timeline for the events in S1 wrt Claudia's Turning--we already know the dates for all of that, that she was made in 1917. I focus on the 1940s in S2, and the European dates, NOT the NOLA dates. LOUIS did not participate in the Trial's preparations, ARMAND & LESTAT did. My timeline has ZERO bearings on Louis' guilt for not warning her, etc.

But on the subject of Louis & Claudia, I've cussed Louis out for not telling Claudia about Armand b4 (x x), I don't ignore it at all. I fully understand & even agree with Armand being fed up with dealing with Louis' BS. But HE CHOSE not to kill Louis when he had the chance, and it's obvs that whatever arrangement they made when they had sex in 2x3/2x4 allowed Louis to TRUST that Armand would keep "the secret" & keep Louis & Claudia SAFE from the coven. (Which is a BOGUS claim for him to make, when Santiago'd ALREADY peeped that they were lying about Lestat & being from NOLA, but wtvr). I've called Louis a naive idiot 1000x for overestimating Armand, putting his life in Armand's incapable hands--just like he would AGAIN by trusting him about "Banishment;" and AGAIN by asking Armand to wipe his memories in SanFran (and LIE by omission about Les saying "I love you, Louis").

"Louis remembers the trial, he remembers what was said and what Lestat showed him."

HOW can Lestat have showed Louis ANY memories during the Trial (inc. the Ep4 revisit), when Makers/Fledglings CANNOT read each other's minds???????

I love this show so much, but I effing hate this show--they don't even give us an answer, Daniel just moves right past it, like wtf are we supposed to do with that, AMC? There's plot threads, vs plot HOLES. Louis' TOO unreliable, Armand's a shysty liar, white savior Lestat to the rescue~~~! "BANishMEnT~!" As if Lestat's any less impartial?

Esp. when at least SOME parts of the Ep4 Revisit were OBVIOUSLY Scripted lines written by the coven to implicate Louis in breaking the Great Laws that Lestat allegedly taught him AND Claudia to follow?

Like, Louis HATES himself, and is quick to blame himself for things beyond his control (a la Paul, a la the Ordinances; "Can we be forgiven if we do not forgive others ourselves?"); so if one is determined to see him bad faith then of course one can easily pounce on him Florence DPDL style / Santiago style, and blame him.

(Esp. since in 1x4 we literally SEE Louis admit to begging & emotionally baby-trapping Lestat into turning Claudia--the revisit in 2x7 is more (melo)dramatic & extended, sure, but it does NOT contradict Louis' account in S1. So I get REAL confused when people say he lied about 1x4 or wtvr.)

Louis invalidates his perspective cuz he KNOWS he's an unreliable narrator--he spends 2x1 sobbing about wanting to remember & "get every detail right"--and ARMAND is there constantly tryna STOP the interview; having directly contributed to his already deteriorated (& inherited?) mental illness, by bending Lou's trauma into "a Lestat shaped-effigy" with all that "I will not harm you" bullcrap.

TL;DR: We won't know for sure what the Trial timeline actually looks like, unless S3+ revisits it with more context.

But as things stand at the end of S2, NO, I don't trust Armand as far as I can throw him, cuz there are waaaay too many instances where he's deliberately lied & obfuscated & omitted in ways to deliberately confuse the narrative surrounding the Trial--that go beyond Louis' already confirmed trauma, PTSD, mental illness, repressed/faulty memory, and guilty conscious.

If y'all want a timeline of S1 events, those have already been made by other people in the fandom (this one is goated).

I wanted to know what was going on in S2; so I used every single date and IRL reference possible, and put them in chronological order in a way that makes sense based on how I TENTATIVELY understand things currently; NOT how AMC has confirmed yet--if they ever will.

If anyone has more relevant in-show references & IRL sources we can cite, to help make better sense of S2 than I did, let us all know!

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Musings - Tentative Timeline (Pt1b: 1940 - 1949)

I've been struggling with this for a while, cuz this ish just don't make sense, AMC. (I fully expect S3 to gotcha/retcon/fix stuff, esp. since who knows what Armand's tinkered around with in Louis' head.)

I split this timeline in 2 parts: Pt1 has everything from 2x1 - 2x6ish; and then ofc Pt2 will cover as much as I can understand from the Trial's shenanigans.

My actual detailed breakdown of these dates is posted here:

(I'm just one person tryna figure out wtf is going on, so if y'all have any insights, please share!)

[murfpersonalblog]

I wanted to respond to this post & tags by @mdeitrick13, after I saw @fishjellylou's response here.

I HATE book!film!Louis. It's actually a very popular opinion, esp. wrt film!Louis--there's a lot to hate, without ever getting into morality politics--from his plethora of stupid life choices, to his hypocrisy, to his whiny attitude, etc. And wrt to pimps & slavery specifically, we can get into all the ways owning & controlling people's bodies, freedom, & autonomy/agency is effed up. But where exactly does LOUIS exhibit any of that behavior towards Armand--book, film, and esp. on the show??? 🤔

Almighty all-powerful all-gifted uber-privileged vamps can get away with literal murder: Lestat can spitefully beat the hell out of Lou, Armand can sadistically torture HUMAN!Daniel, the coven can gleefully kill Claudia & Madeleine (who literally did nothing), Armand can petulantly drive the mentally ill (Nicki & Louis) to suicide--but disenfranchised weak AF desperate HUMAN!Black Louis is "worse" than all of the vamps, cuz he was a pimp who tried navigating the crap hand he'd been dealt the most effective way he could? 🤨🤨🤨

What did Louis do as a human pimp that makes him so much "worse" as a person than Armand is? Since when does AMC/the show or Lou absolve himself of guilt for being a pimp OR a vampire? In Lou's eyes, evil is evil, and he doesn't give vampires a pass AT ALL--eff all the "biological imperatives" Rashid was simpering about. Since when are demonic serial killing cannibals given a pass in the IWTV Morality Olympics, over prostitution? Cuz prostitution & vampirism BOTH exploit human vulnerability & weakness & bodies, and by the show's logic, one is no better or worse than the other--ALL vampires on this show are COMPLICIT as predators feeding off the lives & miseries of humans. Santiago only used the stupid "vampires are monsters" excuse to justify his personally-motivated vendetta to kill Louis, dismissing Lou's experiences to absolve Lestat's flagrant abuse of power against the man he claimed to love whom he knew was weaker than him and thus intentionally "broke."

The whole point of show!Loumand's dynamic is right here:

ARMAND, the 400+ year old Coven Master, stalked & approached & invited & courted LOUIS. Louis never spoke or utilized his past as a pimp when they met. Armand knew Louis was afraid of him ("I thought he was going to kill me....I sensed his ancient power"), and he promised Louis (who'd suffered from SEVERE PTSD after the last older more powerful vampire broke every bone in his body), that he would never hurt Louis, "and I never have," LOL.

In ANY of Loumand's courtship, where does Louis having formerly been a pimp give him ANY advantage over Armand, or the coven? 🤔

Where does pimp!Louis factor in as the "gross" part of their meeting & courtship--when Lou explicitly told Armand & the whole coven that they were NOT companions, and that he had ZERO interest in Armand tryna RECRUIT Louis to join Armand's coven (*cough* CULT *cough*)? 🤔 Who's pimping whom in this situationship? 🤔

Esp. since Claudia's the one who was actually recruited, to try to lure LOUIS in as the one they REALLY wanted to join, so offended when Lou refused ("[Madeleine] must join or die."). They used the same Charles Manson-style cult tactics on Claudia AND Louis!

Rolin explicitly used Charles Manson music in 1x5, but y'all keep missing the links between Lestat & Armand's treatment of Louis & Claudia to talk about how Armand was groomed & abused--by WHOM?! Certainly not LOUIS! And here the tags go AGAIN tryna link Louis with Marius. 🤦‍♀️ (I cannot WAIT till y'all show-onlies actually see Marius in action, not just picking up crap from hearsay.)

Where is Louis the predator out to harm Armand? How is Armand the one being "grossly" threatened by Lou, pimp or otherwise? When did Louis rape Armand, or pimp him out, or "donate" him to someone else? For all Louis' claims that "he's mine" cuz Lou got to top someone who's not his Maker, how does Louis actually come out on top or benefit, being with Armand? 🤔

For all Armand's simpering about "Are you asking me or making me, Maitre?," where does Louis FORCE Armand to do ANYTHING? Louis states what he wants to do/happen (make Madeleine for Claudia; save Daniel from Armand killing him), and Lou gives Armand the CHOICE to do it it or not. Armand could've had the whole coven descend on Lou the night Lou made Madeleine (as we see in the movie, which clearly noticed the same thing)--instead, we learn that he was actually writing/rehearsing the Trial script the whole time jfc 💀💀💀. He could've snapped Daniel's neck, and what could crispety!Lou have done to stop him, hobbling around all burnt up? But he complies, cuz he'd already sabotaged Loustat's chance to get back together by not telling Lou that Les said he loved him; instead CHOOSING to stay with the man who literally just said he's bored & hates being with Armand & literally just tried to kill himself rather than be with Armand anymore--like WTF???? But ARMAND'S the one who's been in danger from Louis!? 🤣 THIS dude!?

OK, Lou was a pimp, but Armand was running the frikkin vampire MOB in Paris--a literal biker gang of Charles Manson sickos! An effing wet room full of offed "heretics and rule breakers" (inc NICKI, who was NEITHER--SUS!!!) buried in the frikkin walls of his torture-basement, but Lou's "worse" for being a HUMAN!hustler, when Armand's a whole cult-leading mobster his effing self!?

On top of the legit torture we see him do to HUMAN!Daniel, playing with his effing food worse than anything we saw Lestat pull in S1.

(x x x x x)

How does Lou having been a pimp protect him from Armand lying about "Banishment," or having his mind wiped for 77 years, or Armand going behind Lou's back to tear out Claudia's diary pages Lou didn't even know about, or Armand throwing Daniel (& Sam & the Talamasca) under the bus to keep gaslighting Lou about the script?

Where does Louis abuse Armand's trust, lying to control Armand's actions? When has Lou hobbled Armand's bodily autonomy, and the thing Armand can(not) physically do? When did Lou donate Armand to other people? Or act outside of Armand's boundaries/consent?)

The whole point of IWTV is to emphasize LOUIS' vulnerability, and how it's constantly exploited & abused by people more powerful than he is--from humans in NOLA & Romania/Eastern Europe, to vampires in Paris, and especially Lestat.

Armand knew immediately that Louis & Claudia were lying about Bruce being their Maker, cuz he's THE best vampire with the Mind Gift. He knew EVERYTHING, and told Louis to his face in 2x2 that Louis's a terrible liar who can't hide anything or keep secrets from him--just like the last older more powerful vampire read Louis' thoughts & used them to seduce him; "Come to me, Louis."

Armand & the whole coven were Europeans who'd never even met an American vamp before--but they knew Louis was a pimp from New Orleans with a whole failed sugar plantation--cuz they they read his mind; what Claudia explicitly called "invaded their thoughts." Santiago called them BOTH out in 2x3 (more subtly with Claudia but straight up explicitly with Louis, as someone whose mind they could all read way easier than hers).

It especially confuses me when show fans complain all about pimp!Louis being with Armand on the show; but make no noise about slaveowner!Louis being with Armand in the books? (Or they're against pedo!Marius being with Armand, but make no noise about pedo!Lestat being with Armand? Let alone Daniel (who, unlike Marius & Lestat, is NOT an Old World European vamp from a different time period with different morals/ethics), or any adult attracted to a 17 year old's body--including book!Louis?) People have shipped Loumand for decades, yet it's only once Lou's a pimp (amongst other things....) that people suddenly care about poor innocent Armand being abused by the evil thug jezebel who got Armand's daughter killed and lied to Armand about his Maker and allowed Armand to be tortured & humiliated by the public with his ankles slashed open & buried alive for over a MONTH so he couldn't escape? 🙄😒

The Vampire Armand is only ever beaten TWICE: by Santino & the Children of Satan in the books, and by Daniel on the show. That is IT. NO ONE else gets the jump on Armand, or gets the upper hand over him--he's not even one of the ones Rhoshamandes kidnaps! NO ONE effs with TVA, or effs TVA over--HE'S the boogeyman of the vampires preying on his own kind, not the other way around.

The sheer IRONY of Mr. "I Could Not Prevent It" Armand as a character is understanding cycles of violence.

You're missing the whole point of AR/RJ putting the former sex slave Armand in relationships with a slaveowner (book) or a pimp (show). It's about realizing how a former sex slave (kidnapped & trafficked overseas to be tortured so bad that his PTSD gave him amnesia) became a powerful vampire with THEE strongest Mind/Spell Gift powers, leading entire covens/cults purging ALL fledglings in their territories who resisted--thus perpetuating SYSTEMIC & INSTITUTIONALIZED ABUSE.

Armand used & abused Claudia's naivety & Louis' trust in him, cuz he lulls victims into a false sense of security before the trap springs open--"NO PAIN."

AR put Loumand together NOT to make a point about how "gross" it was that slaveowner!Louis was taking advantage of former sex slave Armand. It's about how effing ironic and SAD it is that Armand (the one who IMO experienced THE WORST horrors as a victim of abuse in all of TVC) was now the ONLY one in a position of power to PREVENT things that happened to him from happening to anyone else--and did NOTHING. Or rather: he made already bad situations even WORSE.

Armand weaponizes his past to destroy other peoples' futures, victimizing & harassing & abusing everyone as the Coven Master of that EFFED UP coven. He CLAIMS he cannot prevent bad things from happening, flashing 🥺 all day--only for us to find out that behind the scenes, this mofo was a master manipulator who gaslit & schemed against his lover Louis ("alright, I sold him out"), tricked & abused his frenemy Lestat, mutilated Claudia's body and hid the evidence (I PRAY that ghost!Claudia reveals that the Frankenstein scene from TVA happened), and psychologically tortured his human/fledgling Daniel.

Armand was originally intended to be the main villain of TVC, all the way up until the 3rd book, when AR softened Armand's edges & gave it to Akasha in QotD, and Rhosh in the PL Trilogy. ALL of AR's vamps are sympathetic villains, not cuz one is morally/ethically "better or worse" than the other--arguments have been made even to understand Rhoshamandes & Akasha's perspectives. YES, Armand had horrible things happen to him--but LOUIS is NEVER the one who does those horrible things to him, nor does he EVER benefit from Armand's past. Armand ALWAYS had the advantage over Louis, pimp or no. STOP overestimating the Maitre stupidness! AMC already told y'all what that was about!

But y'all pointedly isolate every other vamp from culpability & accountability under the thinly-veiled guise of caring so much about the freedom/autonomy of people's bodies, when really it only serves to spread hate & vitriol for Louis. All I'm seeing in this fandom is the "GROSS" inequity of how Louis is treated & talked about, versus everyone else, and it's fishy AF.

[murfpersonalblog]

☝️THANK YOU, op.

ISTG the IWTV fandom wins the award for spewing the most ignorant and offensive racist crap during Black History Month.

That scene shows how powerless black people are in white society. Even when black folk try to create spaces for themselves--out of NECESSITY, when white people wouldn't ALLOW black folk into PUBLIC (read: Caucasian) spaces--white people can just barge on in--guns, pitchforks, and literal torches blazing.

The ordinances that shut down Storyville in Ep3 were REAL LAWS passed in America that shut down black business and devastated black neighborhoods.

AMC was nodding to REAL LIFE events where white folk segregated/ostracized/disenfranchised African Americans out of PUBLIC spaces and AMERICAN opportunities to pursue life, liberty and PROPERTY, black people said Bet! and created black only spaces, then white people got pissed and burned it all down!

Finn O'Shea--the man who was literally STEALING money from Louis to create his own whites-only ripoff "supper club" of the Azalea--symbolizes all the same dirty white establishments that historically screwed black people over then pointed & laughed in their faces.

What Louis did by hanging that sign up was REACTIONARY, in the face of an entire string of white racist targeted aggression towards him and his people.

And this fandom's been the gold standard of proving us right; slinging around BS like "reverse racism" every time black people REACT and tell white people off about their racism, privilege, ignorance, and "color blindness." Like wtf read a effing book that ISN'T The Vampire Chronicles y'all.

Saying that Louis did a racist act for putting up that “no whites allowed sign” on his buisness has got to be the dumbest thing ever said in the fandom. Like the white people around him saw that shit and laughed because they knew they had all the control at the end of the day and that Louis was desperate to hold on to the power they were taking from him. Even Finn o shea who’s a poor white man under Louis’ employ laughed at it because it didn’t affect him. Like the show is laying out for you why reverse racism isn’t real and you’re still like “but Louis was racist for doing that”

[murfpersonalblog]

"I agree that Lestat had nothing to do with [Paul's death] directly. However, if we remember that episode, Paul was like: 'That man is a devil, he got into my head!' And my whole thing was, I mean Lestat did get into his head.... I don't believe Lestat pushed him to do what he did? But obviously Paul was very mentally ill. That, mixed with him being hyper-religious and hyper-Christian, I feel like that intrusion of Lestat into his mind? Maybe it made him feel like his temple was unclean, or it made him feel like the devil got into my head and now I am soiled now I am bad. And it probably pushed him to do that. So I don't believe Lestat did do that to [Louis'] brother. But I think [Lestat's] intrusion into [Paul's] brain probably played a role in him doing that, so I'm glad they spoke on it here."

WOW | Interview With The Vampire 1x6 | Reaction & Commentary - FrankFreezy (23:23 - 24:37)

I LOVE this so much.

Cuz it goes back to what I was saying here: Louis has ALWAYS loved Lestat--beyond reason, religion, family, himself, Claudia AND Paul combined. I HATE when people act like Louis never loved Lestat, or never showed Lestat how much he loved him. Pay attention, y'all!

IWTV S2 Ep8 Musings - LDPDL: Burning Questions (Pt2)

EVERYONE called Lestat the Devil. Louis KNEW what Lestat did to Paul--both at the family dinner, and what Paul said later on the roof. He knew it was all true, cuz he'd seen it with his own eyes, and he'd FELT the same way--Louis felt unclean & soiled & bad, and RAN out of 1132 after they had sex the first time; and RAN to the confessional screaming "HELP ME, Father, he's in my head!" after Paul died.

But the gothic horror/romance is that despite seeing Les at his absolute worst, killing all those priests like an utter demon, LOU CHOSE LESTAT ANYWAY. And it's been (literally) KILLING him ever since. "I run to bad beds!" His 128+ dead men in SanFran are all Les!

It's why I love Ep5, as it's just more of the same: seeing Lestat at his worst and Lou STILL loving the monster AND the man in Ep6 (my fave episode in the whole series so far). Seeing Les try to kill Claudia in 1x7 and STILL mourning him all the way into 2x7.

There's A LOT of Les' trash Lou settles for & accepts, inc. even the suspicion that Les ad something to do with Paul's death; inc. Les abusing both him & Claudia. It's not until Les SPAT on Lou's love before a whole crowd of lynchers with "Come to Me" that the last straw broke how much Louis could forgive, cuz "Come to Me/Viens a moi" was when Les got into LOUIS' head and drove HIM to death (vampirism) too, literally in 1x1 & figuratively in 1x6.

The fandom doesn't talk about the dubcon/noncon/mind-rape of the Come to Me/church scene as much as we should, and how much of a violation it was for Les to be barging all up in Lou's head the way he was, while Lou was literally suffering an entire grief-triggered drunken suicidal mental breakdown. Lou's POV makes it seem more like lethal assault (I'm being mortally hunted; my life/soul's in danger by the white Devil). But Lestat/the script acknowledged the predatory nature of Come to Me during the Trial, when Les flipped it to make it seem like Lou had (sexually) assaulted HIM instead (my purity/chastity's in danger by the Black pimp).

This violation of their relationship is IT for Louis ("those were HIS words! F**k you!"). Their history is sullied, Lou's name & reputation (personhood) is dragged through the mud & soiled. ("I was dead.") With Claudia dead and Les betraying them by participating in the rigged Trial, Lou was able to believe Armand's weak AF lies for 77 years ("bad beds"); and sacrifice his love/marriage, "kill" Les & get divorced (Lou's most non-Catholic move of all, LOL) for good.

Les had ONE chance to be honest about the Trial (the 2x8 Tower Scene) & totally blew it by letting Armand get away with "Banishment." It all comes home (literally, in NOLA), when Lou finally stops running AWAY from uncomfortable truths, and asks the burning questions about Les that REALLY define their relationship.

Cuz it's not really about the Trial, or even Claudia; it's about Paul, the catalyst for Louis' entire arc--she was just the final/ultimate casualty. Everyone important in Lou's life has just been another replacement for Paul, "I loved him more than anyone on earth." All the people he had sit & TALK to him--Lily, Lestat, Claudia, Daniel, even Armand (to an extent), are all just Lou looking for Paul--understanding, acceptance, and love--i.e.: his companion. Someone he can confide all his secrets in, who won't judge/condemn him, and who'll accept & love him for who he is.

Sam said Les is Lou's "soulmate." Even though his heinous antics constantly proved Paul RIGHT, Lou also loved when Les put in the effort to prove Paul WRONG--he CAN behave & act like a human & charm the absolute pants off of Louis by just sitting on a park bench or sofa & TALKING to Louis; CONNECTING with Louis on a deeper level than even sex (which Lou already said is the best he's EVER had--and ya boi got around in the 70s-2000!).

But Les can also match Louis' freak; show his fangs, and be an utter monster Lou ALSO loves; cuz there's something dark in Louis too, that Jacob said "needs friction."

I said before that actual saints like Jonah & Paul are way too nice for Louis; too good & pure for this world. Lou LIKES Bad Boys; he likes men who're effed up & broken, cuz it makes HIM feel like he's not alone--HE'S not so bad after all. Vamps are just crabs in a bucket, and Lou's own hyper-Catholic brain treats it as a form of punishment, that he "deserves" effed up devils like Les & Armand. Beaten down all his life, and hating himself, full of self-loathing, Lou never knew his own worth--"let's meet vampires WORTHY of your love!" In 1x5 Lou stopped putting in the effort to take care of himself & their family/household ("ignoring all other duties of the role Claudia once mocked me for: the unhappy housewife"), and stopped confronting Lestat about his BS ("He treats us like sh*t and you take it! Why is that?!"). He's about to burn Les alive in 2x8, then just visibly gives up (puts the fire out), to "kill" Les by marrying Armand (who he's not even in love with, and who KNOWS Lou's only with him to spite Les) before the ink on Loustat's divorce papers are even dry.

It's only after Daniel FINALLY helps Louis claw his way out of Armand's clutches that he understands what Claudia meant about him having never known or loved himself ("Who are you, Louis?"). Lou's TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION required that he work on bettering himself, and allowing Lestat the chance to better himself too. That "friction" was toxic AF, and they both needed a real CLEANSING, which only started when Lou opened his mouth to ask Les the truth (the false-start in 1x6 about Paul; and the real-start in 2x8 about Armand).

So yeah, I love what Frank said, cuz IMO people in the fandom miss a lot of the horrible things Les does INDIRECTLY, in order to forgive the horrible things Les does DIRECTLY--just like Louis did. But just like Louis, it's possible (& totally valid) to love the man while acknowledging the ways he IS a monster, who needs to come clean & be honest, and start taking accountability for the ways he (in)directly contributed to both Louis & Claudia (& Paul's) demise.

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Musings - Tentative Timeline (Pt2: The Trial)

I've been struggling with this for a while, cuz this ish just don't make sense, AMC. (I fully expect S3 to gotcha/retcon/fix stuff, esp. since who knows what Armand's tinkered around with in Louis' head.) I split this timeline in 2 parts: Pt1 has everything from 2x1 - 2x6ish (text & chart versions of timeline); and Pt2 covers as much as I can understand from the Trial's shenanigans. (I'm just one person tryna figure out wtf is going on, so if y'all have any insights, please share!)

I've been grappling with the sequence of events that led to the Trial since 2x6 aired, when Armand "could not prevent" his CHOICE to stand back and let Louis' family be abducted & tortured & killed.

Armand was actually in cahoots with Santiago the whole time (writing/directing/editing the Trial script); so was he also lying/making excuses about why THE most powerful vampire with the Mind Gift wasn't reading his own coven's thoughts?

So, since we know Armand put false memories into Lou's head about the Trial (which ofc makes Louis' account more difficult to parse), and we know Armand knew all about Lestat/Bruce since the very first day, I've just been wondering how early the Trial was planned out.

Cuz the BIG question everyone's circling around is WHEN Lestat arrived in Paris, and WHY he didn't warn Louis that the coven was planning something.

Theories range from:

Les willingly participated in the Trial, deliberately acting with ill intent cuz he was mad about Mardi Gras; "it's their turn to hurt." Lesdaughter Truthers are wrong, Les DGAF about Claudia.

Les was unable to warn Louis or stop the Trial cuz he was captured, injured & manipulated/mind-fogged (a la the book canon)

Sam Reid (deliberately?) hemmed & hawed about Lestat going into the rehearsal/Trial acting on raw impulse, with no plan whatsoever, other than getting Louis (specifically) out alive

NGL, I think ALL of the above are to some degree true! 😅

But I lean toward Theory #2 most of all, cuz that's how the book events transpired. But I'll be the first to admit that #2 is deeply flawed & hard AF to defend/prove, based on what little we actually saw in 2x6, 2x7, and esp. 2x8. Cuz it really does seem like Les LET an awful lot of bad ish happen that he too could've prevented.

So I wanna put 2x6 into context this time, to try and piece things together. Cuz the math REALLY ain't mathin, AMC.

What we have thus far:

According to Armand in 2x8, he started lying to Louis about the coven preparing the Trial the night Madeleine was Turned in 2x6.

November 1945

Armand knew the FIRST NIGHT Louis & Claudia arrived in Summer 1945 that they were lying about Lestat/"Bruce."

Spring 1946 - Spring 1947

The coven was suspicious the entire time--it's esp. obvs. as Santiago grills them about "Chicago":

Santiago vs Claudia (2x3) around Spring 1946, "Stick with it, Puce! You're almost there."

Santiago vs Louis (2x4) around Spring 1947, "New Orleans!" (It makes sense that it would take Santiago longer to confront Louis, as Armand kept complaining about Louis never being around the Theatre x x)

Late 1947 / Early 1948

post-September 1947, Santiago had already stolen Claudia's diaries & passed them around to the coven; and Celeste & Estelle had already interrogated Roget about Lestat.

Did Armand know Santiago was in Louis' apartment going through their things (while Claudia would either be out with Madeleine, or at the Theatre under curfew) --

--and did he know the coven was reading her Diaries right in front of him while Santiago & Celeste & Estelle were interrogating Roget about Lestat?

Esp. since all of this goes down in 2x6 BEFORE Armand had even met Madeleine & Louis/Claudia asked him to Turn her!

We know that by late 1947 / early 1948 (when Louis bought the Wols, then came home to find Claudeleine in his coffin, then took them to Armand to ask for the bite), Armand already knows that Lou & Claudia wanna do their own thing with Madz; committing the same "crime" that got Santiago's Maker killed--making a vamp without the Coven Master's permission--but ofc, Louis is NOT in Armand's coven.

Late 1948 - Early 1949

In the very next scene, we get Santiago & Sam in cahoots about Godot's projections/scripts. Patterns of behavior indicate that Armand LET this all happen, and only pretended that "the buffoon was in the audience."

In my Timeline Pt1, I surmised that the very latest Sam could've finished the Godot script was early 1949, cuz IRL Sam Beckett wrote the play b/t October 1948 - January 1949.

Spring - Summer 1949

So by Spring of 1949, Sam would be free to turn his attention to drafting a NEW script...for the Trial.

April 1949: Sam writes the Trial script.

(Is it JUST his half, or is Les already awake & in Paris & writing the other half with him? OR is Les awake & just in telepathic communication with the coven, and has no idea they're asking him questions to incriminate Claudia & Louis?)

2x5 & 2x6 also give us some very important contextual dates! Loumand references a bunch of events that happened around the same time, which can help approximate when Tuan's projections were being made.

LOUIS: The Berlin Blockade ended in May. The Geneva Convention was agreed in August. Some of the front pages from that year. But if you look in the filler, in the back pages. Strange crimes reported. ARMAND: A telescopic lens stolen from the Observatory at Meudon. A film company shooting the crime thriller 'Porte D'Orient' delayed when its inventory of color film stock is snatched. LOUIS: A gang of drunkards, hanging off of the side of the Eiffel Tower, all facing south by southwest, all muttering in unison--gone by the time police arrive by elevator. ARMAND: Crimes all left unsolved.

May 12, 1949: Berlin Blockade ends

June 21, 1949: Paris Observatory's missing lens reported stolen. (Because these are newspaper reports, we might also assume the actual time of the theft was the night before the article was published (June 20). But who knows.)

June 23, 1949: Oriental Port color film stock reported stolen; filming delayed. (Because these are newspaper reports, we might also assume the actual theft of the events was the night before the article was published (June 22). But who knows.)

The color film stock being stolen that delayed Oriental Port's filming is a VERY nice touch, cuz the movie was released in 1950, and was the first French film to use Agfa-Gevacolor film, which had only been available to the public since January 1949 (x x). So the film nerds at AMC really stay on top of their research! 👌

July 1949: Armand distracts Louis with library outings:

ARMAND: Ah, July, 1949. The reading room. LOUIS: Mmm. We broke into the same library every night that month, hypnotized security, as one does, flipped the lights, laid our backs on long tables and stared up at the ceiling. ' DANIEL: Hot. ARMAND: Iron pillars holding up terracotta domes, a light trick that made the ceiling appear higher than it was. LOUIS: And why not pass a month that way? An effortless, eternal life ahead of us. Funny thing, trying to remember what occupied one's time when one was ignorant of the plotting around him.DANIEL: Grab that. LOUIS: Santiago had broken into our apartme--I'm sorry. Grab what?

Louis implies that the "plotting around him" started in July 1949--or at least, that's when HE surmised (in Dubai, NOT Paris) that Armand had "started lying to me." Ofc, 2x8 would reveal that Armand was in cahoots with the coven since jump.

We can thus assume that this was when the bulk of the projector images based on Claudia's diaries were being drawn (whenever Armand wasn't distracting Louis with dates to the library). They already have the Agfa-Gevacolor film, and the Observatory's fancy projection lens, so that Tuan can animate whatever Sam had already written for the script. "But they had their Technicolor film. Tuan Pham's wizardry with it."

And ofc, they'd want to corroborate the diaries with Lestat's own testimony. (Esp. since it's clear from Claudia's diaries that Les ISN'T dead, just thrown in the dump--cuz Claudia KNOWS the only way to be sure you've killed a vamp is to burn them, and she's mad AF that they didn't do that to Les cuz Lou freaked TF out.)

Again: did they only call Lestat after they had Claudia's diaries (once they knew there was a chance he wasn't dead after all)? The dates seem to imply that this was the case--that Armand & Santiago & co. had suspected Lestat was alive ever since 1945, but it was only until 1949 that they bothered to contact him.

Fall 1949

September 5, 1949: report of Eiffel Tower climbed by "muttering drunkards." (Because these are newspaper reports, we might also assume the actual time of the events was the night before the article was published (Sept 4). But who knows.)

The September 5th date is the most telling: IF Armand is telling truth, this would be when the coven contacted Lestat, as seen in Tuan's projection during the Trial.

So, IF this is the truth & S3 doesn't retcon anything, the rehearsals with Lestat would've had to have started in September, after 3 months of Tuan's prep (the thefts started in June); and 5 months of Sam's writing & Armand's edits.

February 6, 1940 - September 5, 1949: Lestat's "state of repose" ends when the coven "wakes" him. (IF this is true, Roget was right that Les was just asleep, taking a long AF dirt nap. IF Les was awake before then, he was only motivated to come to Paris when the coven climbed the Eiffel Tower & told him the Trial was soon--likely still too emotionally damaged / psychologically injured to leave NOLA.)

Again, the big question is: what was Les up to while he was in Paris, b4 the Trial? Was he free to come & go as he pleased (in which case: why TF didn't he warn Lou?!); OR was he locked up (a la the books)?

post-September 5, 1949: Madeleine is Turned.

Right after the scene of Dubai!Loumand describing all the "strange crimes," we get the scene of Paris!Loumand in the park, discussing Madz, right b4 she's Turned that night (Lou's in the same clothes).

THIS is the night Armand claimed he started lying to Lou, ("They gave me a choice"). And again: we know even THAT was a lie too, cuz UNLESS Madz was turned the exact same night that Les arrived AND wrote his half of the script AND rehearsed it (meaning Les wasn't starved/tortured at all), then Armand had PLENTY of time BEFORE Madz Turned to work on the script & direct the rehearsals.

The same night of Madz's Turning, Armand moves into Louis' apartment (and Claudia's coffin 🤮), with his magnolia sprig. And speaking of plants....

September-October-ish, 1949: Claudeleine finds the X, planting flowers outside Saint Denis.

I assume "cold things" are the cold corpses Claudeleine is burying; that "become warm" metaphorically, when plants/flowers grow over their graves. I know nothing about autumn weather in France. Going by clothes, it looks like it's still nice & warm, cut comfy enough for light jackets. I also know nothing about flowers, or what seasons they grow in France. But apparently Claudeleine's Fall flowers are fine:

Lavender: usually stops flowering in late August or mid-September; definitely by mid-October.

Sweet Iris: has high cold resistance, and goes dormant from November - March-ish.

Peony: apparently there are regular peonies & tree peonies, and they both like colder weather--the regular ones go dormant around November. Plenty seem to be ok in Fall, up to October-ish, that you can get at nurseries. And they really like bone meal as fertilizer, omg. XD

(My headcanon wants to assume that Claudia only agreed to visit Louis in Paris either cuz it was gonna be her birthday (9/21), OR his birthday (10/4). 💔 Cuz misogynoir, I'd bet Monopoly money it was Claudia's; DOOMED by the narrative! 😭)

Late 1949 (September/October): The Trial.

(Guys. D'you reckon those nasty theatre kids held the Trial on frikkin Halloween? 🤣)

Late 1949 (November-ish): Louis is kept buried alive in the wet room for at least 1 month after the Trial, before Armand finally pulls him out the coffin.

The latest the Trial could've taken place is October, in order for OVER a month to have passed and the fire still happens in 1949.

VERY Late 1949 (November/December): Louis slaughters the coven, the "Great Fire of 1949" send the Theatre des Vampires up in flames. 🔥

(The Talamasca folder in 2x3 calls it the "Great Fire;" which makes me giddy, cuz we also have the "Great Burnings" in the books, related to Akasha. I love how Akasha & Louis are paralleled, just slaughtering vamps with the Fire Gift, bless.)

1950

May 24 - June 4, 1950: The French Championship of 1950 takes place at Roland-Garros. Spoiler: the Australians lost that year. 😂

[murfpersonalblog]

The Sunken Place: IWTV & Get Out (Pt1)

Louis de Pointe du Lac - Interview with the Vampire (2022 - present) Chris Washington - Get Out (2017)

[murfpersonalblog]

Exactly. I've said since S1 that Loustat got Vegas Married; they didn't REALLY "know" each other. Jfc, Les really was illiterate, cuz he definitely wasn't reading Lou's mind well enough to understand who he was deep down AT ALL. 🙄🤦

Cuz Lou's NOT some "disreputable, cold, violent" thug like Les assumed & Santiago disparaged. He IS kind, soft, nurturing; and he cares about "human souls;" not seeing them as "the Meat" like Les, or "Kill Juice" like Claudia, or "cattle" like Armand. And poor Louis didn't have a frikkin clue what he was getting into with sadistic Lestat. They'd BOTH been putting on an act.

Loustat are soulmates, STFU. 😭

"One-sided." 👀

Armand is very No Future coded, wow. Very apocalyptic & fatalistic--hence his actions following Memnoch the Devil.

I said it way back in S1: Armand "loves" people like OBJECTS.

He does the exact same thing with Daniel, which is why I've never understood the appeal of Devil's Minion. It's FUNNY, seeing Armand be such a gremlin, but it's not romantic IMO; esp. since Daniel had zero agency, drunk AF and out of his mind most of the time--esp. after he was Turned. The only people Armand was able to love unconditionally, as PEOPLE (even family), were Benji & Sybelle.

Granted, what Assad said about Armand selfishly only thinking about how Louis could enrich him is kinda unfair. ALL vampires are selfish. They're leeches literally feeding on people, sucking them dry to sustain themselves. (Why they're a perfect allegory for capitalism, pimps, slaveowners, aristocracy, etc.) As Makers, they're crabs in a bucket, pulling humans down into eternal damnation with them just cuz they don't wanna go through hell alone--regardless of how prettily they talk it up (*cough* Lestat *cough*)--it's still a Savage Garden. Armand had the right idea, not wanting to make his own fledgling:

Armand & Les actually have a lot more in common than they're given credit for (which is why Lou's fond of them--he's compatible with both of them: Les' fun & flamboyant side; and Armand's more muted & chill domestic side). They're Old World relics who BOTH rely on Louis as someone who can bring them into the 20th century. Toxic AF, they BOTH treat Louis like a vessel--Lestat more carnally, as someone he can dump all of his pleasure & love into, lovebombing Lou and expecting him to take it with open arms; and Armand more mentally, literally inserting his memories/personality into Louis and mindwiping him as he stays on suicide watch; becoming Lou's nursemaid/caretaker and treating him with kid gloves like Lou needs to be "coddled, hyped up, lied to."

So yeah, this was a really juicy article. I agree with Sam & Assad, but for different reasons.

[nightcolorz]

I hope that whenever amc iwtv introduces Marius and they have the plot line where Marius and Armand reunite, their dynamic isn’t openly hostile or openly loving, or overly intense or dramatized. I rlly want it to be the way it was in the books from queen of the damned to the vampire Armand (hopefully with more depth explored), where Armand is very polite but very distant when he interacts with Marius, and admits that the reason he can’t seem to interact with him in in anyway beyond impersonal but polite small talk is bcus hes scared of him but doesn’t understand why, and he fears that if he tries to rebuild his relationship with Marius he will become subservient and consumed by him again. And like!!! Ugh!!! That awkward politeness masking a history of abuse and those deep seated feelings of betrayal and fear feels so authentic. Usually interacting with a past abuser (especially in cases like Armand’s where said past abuser is functionally a family member to him who he is expected to have a cordial relationship with), doesn’t include big displays of emotion or confrontation. It’s so real that for Armand it’s just, Marius kisses him on the cheek and it makes him uncomfortable, Armand smiles at him and tells him about his day, Marius tries to invite Armand to his house, Armand doesn’t understand why he feels so repulsed by the prospect, etc. under the right writer that dynamic could be so interesting and complex and say sm about like real, complicated abusive dynamics, so I have high high hopes and rlly hope amc doesn’t screw it up by overdramatizing it lol

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Ep8 Musings - LDPDL: Burning Questions

I was reading this Variety article, and they mentioned something that made me think of fan critiques of Louis' opaque motivations in the finale, and the fun laughs we've shared over how he's so unbothered by vamp nonsense that he never seems to ask important questions.

I'm drafting a separate post specifically about "Vampire Grace," but I wanted to focus here on only one point in particular:

PAUL.

We always talk about whether Louis chose Lestat over Claudia; "you take him with you, in HERE!" But I haven't seen talk about how Louis chose Lestat over Paul, and how that factors into Lou's habit of not asking HELLA important questions that could've saved Loustat DECADES of resentment.

Paul's suicide "opened the series," setting this whole thing in motion. Florence blames Louis for his death, making Lou feel like a failure.

--the first time we see Louis outright say to someone's face "I love you," it's mere seconds b4 Paul jumps off a roof. (The only other person we see him say it to is Armand, right after saying they're not companions. 💀)

Paul's memory is wrapped up in Louis' love of Lestat, cuz until Les showed up, Paul had been Lou's one and only companion--the sole person he could TALK to. As a closeted gay man, Lou was desperate for MALE companionship: understanding, acceptance & love.

Sure, he had Grace & Lily (& later Claudia)--all WOMEN--but:

his daddy's dead, and who knows what their deal was, but it couldn't be worse than effing Florence. So there's a lingering want of a father-figure; someone older/wiser who could teach & guide Lou when he was feeling "lost...in a dark way" (*cough* Armand *cough*)

a father or brother is still not the companion Louis REALLY wants/needs, so ofc there's things Lou can't tell Paul, or have with him. Les's an upgraded Paul-- a HUSBAND, not a SIBLING (*cough* Claudia *cough*).

(deep down) Lou was jealous of how candid & honest Paul was; regardless that Paul's lack of a filter was a side effect of his mental illness & religious fanaticism (cuz vampirism's an allegory for sexuality--and even in gay mecca Paris & SanFran Lou was still tryna "find himself" as the Zodiac Killer *cough Daniel *cough*)

Paul's dying wish was for Loustat to never be together

and Lou felt he'd betrayed Paul; that he'd lied/hadn't kept his word

folding like a leaf rather than saying NO, or killing himself like he'd implied (suicide by vampire instead of cane-sword/alcohol poisoning)

(and Queen Claudia called Lestat the "Father of Lies" (aka The Devil), and she ain't never lie a day in her life, either)

So the Catholic guilt was extra strong, cuz Saint Paul was right about Les; but Lou chose Les anyway--in the church, on the altar--after Paul died trusting that Lou WOULDN'T take him back.

Instead, we get this boatload of excuses from Louis about the "vampire bond," when the only bond that matters is LOVE. But this is the crux of Louis' personality/problems, and why the interview took so long for him to attempt either the 1st or 2nd time around. Cuz Louis is a hypocritical coward stuffed to gills with self-loathing & GUILT. He runs away from the truth, he runs away from his issues, and he hides from himself and everyone around him.

So OF COURSE Louis doesn't ask important questions. It's not that he doesn't care--it's that HE'S SCARED of asking, and terrified of what the answer is. So it takes him forever to even BEGIN addressing the elephants in the room.

Louis ALWAYS suspected. But he was:

Scared of the answer/truth

Scared that Les would LIE

Scared he'd forgive Les regardless

Paul died in 1911. It had been 26 YEARS until Lou finally piped up in 1937 (the end of Les's Grovel Era). But this was the PERFECT chance to call Les' bluff & get some honest answers out of him for once, cuz:

If Les (unapologetically) caused Paul's death, he can just stay gone

It's in Les' best interest to tell the truth regardless, cuz he's been desperately tryna get back in Lou's (& Claudia's) good graces for 6 years, and being sincere will earn him more cookies (he'd also be banking on Lou forgiving him regardless, cuz he's been missing Les so bad, even after being beat into the next decade & dropped a billion miles in the air)

If Les IS lying, how would they even frikkin know if they can't read his mind? Lou just wants to see what Les will say

(In 2x6 he waited to ask Madeleine if she only saw Claudia as a replacement for her dead sister--a question he should've asked BEFORE he Turned her, but... 🤷 Moot.)

So in the finale, there's 2 painful truths Lou has to contend with:

WHY is he doing the 2nd interview?

WHO saved him during the Trial?

It takes Louis 77 YEARS to reclaim the "pieces of myself" he'd lost/forgotten. He ALWAYS knew things weren't adding up with Armand. He KNEW there were things missing. Even in SanFran, BEFORE the mind-wipe, he was already losing his mind/memories--PTSD from all the awful things he'd been through.

Even book!Louis knew about Claudia's diaries for a decade b4 he finally got the courage to ask the Talamasca if he could read them & speak to her ghost.

Although Lou's naive AF, he's not an idiot--he HAD A HUNCH that Armand knew more than he was letting on, which is precisely why he kept ignoring Armand every time he asked to stop the interview.

However, for once, Lou actually wastes VERY little time with this one:

As soon as he learns the truth about "Banishment," he divorces Armand, and runs back to NOLA to find Lestat. Memory is a monster Lou'd been running scared from all this time. He's tired of running away, wasting so much time, wasting the gift, when he could be actively tryna solve his problems to make life bearable/better. The hellish prison he'd lived in was by his own design--only he could chose to stand up, take control of his life; and finally ask the burning questions. "Truth and reconciliation."

Lou could finally make peace with the memory of the two people he'd been avoiding for so long; whom he felt he'd let down the most:

For once Lou chooses to be "companion enough for myself," and live with/for himself, not relying other people to save/fix/determine his life for him anymore. That's really the only way he'll be able to be with Les in a healthier, guilt-free relationship in the future.

[murfpersonalblog]

I have to interject. I don't want to be rude or nasty, I really want to get to the bottom of this.

How is it not gender essentialism to say that men who wear dresses are inherently the female-coded ones? Regardless of their actual behavior, while clothed in and outside of said dress?

Isn't it sexist & homophobic to attack people for insisting that gender is MORE than clothes & hair?

YES, clothes are fundamentally important for signalling one's adherence (or RESISTANCE) to gender norms. But it's funny how y'all hyperfocus on the Mardi Gras outfit Lestat wore in 1x7 when he ate the baby--a public COSTUME Lestat barely even wore once (which was mostly an ANDROGYNOUS gender NEUTRAL skort, not even a full skirt, as he was still wearing his suit--the gender-flexible king/queen of Mardi Gras--a holiday all about flipping social norms upside down!); while never engaging with the Matador/Killer pajamas & wifebeaters Lestat REGULARLY lounged around in AT HOME when he choked his child & "broke" his spouse in 1x5 (X X).

It is sexist & downright misogynist to reduce wearing dresses to embodying femininity & womanhood, when sometimes it is an expression of societal RESISTANCE for men & women to crossdress--a POWER move. As if everything about being a woman (or being female-[coded) solely boils down to the clothes we wear. I'm a cis woman, and I wear pants & sneakers everyday--AIN'T I A WOMAN?

This is ESPECIALLY nefarious when so much on the convo contrasts Lestat's campiness to Louis as a masculine thug/pimp/boss/etc--as if LESTAT didn't own that whorehouse (which Louis bought from HIM & Tom Anderson); as if they weren't BOTH rocking suits all of S1; and as if they weren't BOTH dressed in COSTUMES at Mardi Gras. Even Lestat in the S3 promo/teaser is PERFORMING--y'all know wtf a STAGE PERSONA is; why're people being so effing OBTUSE?

Lestat PLAYS with gender; it's all a GAME to him. He can do what he wants!

Gender's ALSO expressed in BEHAVIOR, SOCIAL DYNAMICS, & HIERARCHICAL POWER. That's FAR more serious than a silly holiday costume.

Yes, Caroll Cutshall said Lestat's Mardi Gras costume exuded both feminine AND masculine energy. But she also talks very candidly about the VISUAL HIERARCHY OF POWER that clothes ALSO represent--particularly for characters with power over LOUIS.

The same way it doesn't matter what roleplays Loumand had in S2 wrt Maitre/Arun ("Maitre only when it's hot or convenient"); we have the same power imbalance between Loustat in S1, as it doesn't matter how many dresses Lestat wears, or how much he bends gender norms--he'll ALWAYS be the one on top of Louis in the pyramidal power structure. "It's not as simple as choosing a new family configuration. Now I'm your cousin; now I'm your aunt--I am your Maker!"

@the-vagabond-angel SAY THAT SHIT RYAN like not only was it sexist bc that implies that only women clean the house but also it’s like trying to make the who’s the man and who’s the woman question seem deep and profound when it’s rlly weird like why are we trying to make their relationship appear hetero they’re gay @nightcolorz EXACTLY ITS SO HOMOPHOBIC

It's not about saying that all women are housewives, or that all housewives are women--it's about the what the GENDER ROLE reflects about the conditions under which Loustat lived together & apart in NOLA--the EXPECTATIONS Lestat put on Louis & their relationship; and the ways Louis either conformed or contradicted those expectations--LEAVING Lestat alone in 1x3, 1x7, and 2x8. It's about LESTAT'S abandonment issues, and creating Louis as an eternal companion to save him from the curse of vampire loneliness.

No one is saying that mothers can't dominate & terrorize their households. But you cant pretend that Lestat represents the problematic mother--the Medea or Clytemnestra--when he's been projecting nothing but Agamemnon & Jason this whole time. XD

Anne Rice said VERY explicitly that she is LOUIS. SHE self-inserted herself as Louis to represent HER EXPERIENCES AS A MOTHER.

Lestat represents the power & autonomy she RECLAIMED once she'd processed her grief & depression over her daughter dying; and the complicated feelings she had about her husband Stan--she originally named Lestat LESTAN--the T was a TYPO that got stuck in post. Lestat was her husband, and she was Louis.

Sure, we can (& SHOULD) discuss AR's complicated/problematic approach to gender, both IRL and in TVL, but it is NOT homophobic/sexist/etc to point out the whys and hows of Louis & Lestat as conceptual frameworks for telling a story about a mother's grief.

@kaleidoscope-vol2 They are still doing this now. It's super weird people want to put these characters into heteronormative boxes and also believe mothers are never abusive in real life. People have lost their damn minds.

It's not about not seeing Lestat as a contradiction of mothers who are never abusive (which is a fundamentally stupid thing to assume, since we literally see the ways that both Florence (& Gabrielle!) emotionally abuse/neglect/manipulate her sons. And then there's Akasha, the MOTHER of ALL vampires, who's the literal worst).

It's about understanding the parallels/cycles of abuse that are perpetuated by BOTH of the characters, both on each other, and on Claudia:

Louis as the "emotionally vacant" parent who neglects his spouse & child to wallow in disassociative misery as the "unhappy housewife--" and appellation which Louis NEVER denies or rejects, mind you. It's not about what Louis IS--it's about what Louis FEELS; about how HE thinks he's being treated by other people; and what he thinks that makes him: "Who are you, Louis? If there were no me, if there was no him?" Cuz Louis "carries him in HERE!," in his heart/mind. Louis even became more & more like Lestat, ultimately chokeholding Claudia EXACTLY THE SAME WAY HIS FATHER/MAKER TREATED HIM AND HIS DAUGHTER.

Lestat as the physically abusive patriarch who treats his spouse & child EXACTLY THE SAME WAY HIS FATHER TREATED HIM AND HIS MOTHER. Even in the books, without the raw brutality of Ep5, we see how Lestat terrorized his fledglings--and the books explicitly put Marquis de Lioncourt IN LOUIS' HOUSE. Lestat's father LIVES with them, front and center, as the physical manifestation of the ways that Lestat literally CARRIED his father with him!

Neither the show nor us as fans are ignorant or ignoring the ways Louis is an abusive spouse & parent, but you're talking apples & oranges to delude yourselves into thinking Loustat's household represents anything BUT a bastardization of the traditional nuclear family they were trying so hard to mimic--pretending to be normal humans, pretending to be a normal family, when they ARE different, and they (gay vampires) CANNOT fit into societal molds & mores--that's the TRAGEDY of The Unholy Family! Cuz Louis DID try to be heteronormative--INTERNALIZED homophobia!

Folk are more interested in hyperfocusing on Lestat, tee-heeing at his c*nty camp yaasification; rather than listening to what Louis the Liar™ has to say about HIS pain & suffering at the hands of the man he loved the most.

Engage with the show past the surface level, and realize that CLOTHES are just PART of the ENSEMBLE of the socially dictated ways that power dynamics & imbalances are expressed on this show--even amongst gay men.

Remember b4 iwtv s2 dropped u would get crucified by the fandom if u said that lestat was gender none confirming bcus apparently abusive ppl can only be masculine? Even tho said embodiment of masculinity and patriarchal gender roles literally cross dresses and does drag like, in canon. What the fuck was that 😭😭. And apparently Louis is the submissive bottom exclusively bcus he cleans the house? And that’s progressive apparently? 😭 to suggest that Louis is “woman coded” bcus he gets beaten by his partner and does house chores?? I’m just glad the fandoms a little better now bcus oh my god 😭😭 what the fuck

[lesbians4armand]

i love the amount of narrative haunting that happens in iwtv. like yeah claudia is haunting the narrative and louis is haunted by the narrative. but i want to talk about how fucked up it is when the ghost is right there in the room because you cant tell me that that narrative isnt being violently haunted by amadeo of venice he is screaming and tearing at the bars of his cage but he cant do anything because armand is stood there like 🫥 the entire time. the ghost is there in the room inside armand but he is haunting like no one’s business, he’s in ever movement and flinch and flash of anger and touch and the painting on the wall and the sun outside. but hes not really there

[murfpersonalblog]

I don’t really interact with the fandom very often due to the racism that’s portrayed, but thank you for posting this because you just put into words something that I’ve been struggling to articulate regarding how Louis is perceived and treated by the fandom. Recently, some white woman on TikTok posted some “analysis” of sorts about Louis and Claudia and basically she came to the conclusion that if Claudia was not turned by Lestat, that if she survived as a human and grew older, eventually she would’ve turned out to become one of Louis’ girls/prostitutes because according to this creator, Louis has no regard for women and girls and only sees them as commodities. I wish I could find that TikTok for you, but I pressed “Not Interested” so quickly after I heard that. She phrased it like “if Claudia survived as a human, how long would it be until she would become one of Louis’ girls?”

Something about that just made me so deeply uncomfortable. It really opened my eyes up to how both Louis and Claudia as the leading black characters are perceived by the white fandom. It sort of is a reflection of how they see us as black people in real life too, but we won’t get into that lol.

Because why is THAT the first thing that comes to mind when wondering about what Claudia hypothetically could’ve been if she had the chance to grow up? She could be a wife, a mother, anything else and THAT is where their minds go? And why is Louis the only character that has his past held against him by the fandom? There is so much grace given to Lestat and Armand, but none to Louis.

I’m not saying that Louis is perfect and that he has no faults, but yeah. Thank you for making that post because it really articulated what I’ve been feeling and trying to say.

@autumn-slaves Thank you so much for sending me this! ❤️ I'm so glad that you like my metas, and that my long-winded tirades are actually articulating people's thoughts about IWTV, AMC!Louis, and receptions by this wild AF fandom.

Recently, some white woman on TikTok posted some “analysis” of sorts about Louis and Claudia and basically she came to the conclusion that if Claudia was not turned by Lestat, that if she survived as a human and grew older, eventually she would’ve turned out to become one of Louis’ girls/prostitutes because according to this creator, Louis has no regard for women and girls and only sees them as commodities.... why is THAT the first thing that comes to mind when wondering about what Claudia hypothetically could’ve been if she had the chance to grow up? She could be a wife, a mother, anything else and THAT is where their minds go?

Yeah, there's something crucial that people don't seem to realize:

Claudia is arguably the best & most tragic character AR ever created, cuz she was always DOOMED by the narrative.

Woulda coulda shouldas are absolutely pointless. Claudia was NEVER meant to grow up, cuz Anne Rice's daughter Michelle never got to grow up, either.

Book!Claudia was abandoned by her biological father, who ditched her & her sickly mom when they contracted the plague. Her mom died & she was left in the house all alone, and would've soon died of plague, even if book!Louis hadn't found her & drained her nearly dry; and Lestat Turned her to babytrap Louis.

Likewise, AMC! Claudia was abandoned by her biological father “whose daddy gave her away to a mean old auntie” after her mom died in childbirth. She was trapped in the house all alone when it caught fire, and would've soon died in the fire, even if AMC!Louis hadn't found her & caused the riots and Lestat Turned her to babytrap Louis.

Either way, Claudia was destined to die.

AMC even takes it a step further, to have Claudia be a twisted & more tragic version of book!Loustat's 2nd daughter, Rose.

AMC!Claudia was NEVER gonna get to grow old enough to be a prostitute, cuz the race riots & fires that burned down her home were gonna happen in 1917 (when she was 14) anyway.

AMC based the race riots on IRL events that happened when the racist Ordinances segregated NOLA & shut down Storyville in 1917 (the year Claudia died/Turned); kicking all the black people out of their homes & businesses to gentrify it for rich white people. AMC changes things so it looks like Louis' solely to blame for the riots burning down Storyville cuz HE blames himself (for everything). But even if Lou was never a vampire & never killed the Alderman, he'd've never been able to keep the Azalea; and Claudia wouldn't survived the fires that broke out as white people burned down Storyville to force ALL the Black people who refused to leave out of the area. Where would Claudia have gone?

"And why is Louis the only character that has his past held against him by the fandom? There is so much grace given to Lestat and Armand, but none to Louis."

Exactly. People act like Louis was the ONLY man in NOLA running a whorehouse; it's ridiculous how bad people don't pay attention.

Finn O'Shea was the one who helped burn the Azalea down, and it's HIGHLY likely that his "supper club" (ie: underground whorehouse) across the street was JUST FINE once all the Darkies were gone.

Another thing about the fire is Claudia's own dreams/what-if scenario about what could've happened if she'd never been Turned.

The whole hospital argument is moot, cuz we see half her face covered in burns in 1x4/2x7, and Lou said "she's going cold." Burns even in 2024 are dangerous, let alone 1917. She ranted about having a husband & raising babies, but IF she survived & not been Turned, she'd've been a half burned/scarred; and her throat/lungs would probably be effed up from all that smoke inhalation. Marriage & children seems highly unlikely for someone who'd've been a (possibly comatose/bedridden) hospital inmate for YEARS, slowly recovering from SEVERE burns "her body's all charred" with 1917 treatments.

Not to mention, which hospital?? 🤨 In the middle of a race riot/racial PURGE; when the whole effing district was under siege, hundreds if not thousands of people would've been all kinds of injured & dying, or just in need of shelter.

Like, I know nothing about NOLA hospitals, but Google told me:

The Flint Goodridge Hospital was for Black people (cuz segregation, and most private hospitals refused to serve Black patients), but in 1916 only had 50-60 beds. They charged "1 Penny A Day" for hospitalization, which was crazy cheap even for that time, so that poor Black folk could afford to be seen.

Maybe Charity Hospital? They had a "colored ward," but by the 1930s was notoriously racist & kept the ward in terrible conditions, with Black patients as their lowest priority & left to wait HOURS just to be seen.

"Private hospitals such as Ochsner, Mercy, Touro, and Southern Baptist" refused to integrate before the gov't forced them in the 1960s during the Civil Rights Movement (x x). Same with Tulane (Medical Center/School/whatever), which didn't even accept Black students till the 1960s, so I doubt they'd've taken her either.

Maybe Hotel Dieu? I don't think it was private, so maybe they would've taken in Black folk?

The French Hospital only had 60ish beds even by the 1940s (when it got shut down). IDK if they were anything like NOLA's French Opera House, which was hella segregated.

The Marine Hospital was for sailors/etc; but had a ward for kids, but only took in the mentally ill. They charged $1 per day for hospitalization.

So yeah, the odds of Claudia being seen, let alone successfully treated long-term, are rather low, esp. when so many other people would've needed care, too, and there were VERY few beds in NOLA hospitals at the time.

But even if Claudia hadn't died that night, the dream she wanted would've died, too. Granted, I'm not saying we should THANK Louis for "saving"/damning her (just like we shouldn't THANK him for taking in girls as prostitutes). Vampirism IS inherently evil. But she definitely needed a bit of reality check, too. Louis wasn't gonna risk wasting time finding a hospital that could/wouls take her, when she was "barely breathing," cuz he knew Turning her was a quicker & surer way of having someone heal her ASAP--Lestat.

Like, YES, Louis saved her for selfish reasons--his ego was SHOT, and he just needed to help save SOMEONE, to feel like he wasn't a FAILURE anymore (he'd JUST lost the Azalea & been kicked out of his home by Grace/Florence & was ready to divorce his husband Lestat who was busy cheating on him with a white woman).

It didn't matter to Louis if she was a girl or a dude ("a family of my own...no sons, no daughters"), so long as he had someone he could FINALLY feel like he "did right by."

"according to this [Tik Tok] creator, Louis has no regard for women and girls and only sees them as commodities.... "

Jfc. Oh, I'm sure Louis only ever saw his mother & Grace as commodities, yup! XD ZERO regard for women, yeees, which is why he stood up for Bricktop when she nearly killed the Alderman for raping her, when plenty of other guys would've fired her for jeopardizing his business~! And why Louis DIDN'T allow Tom Anderson to sleep with his girls for FREE so they couldn't earn any money whatsoever, the way Tom did at the Fairplay, where he treated prostitutes like fleshlights; cuz Louis disregards women SO MANY TIMES~! 🙄 Nevermind that Louis let Bricktop be in charge of the books, cuz he trusted her with his money & the legalese of running his businesses in a sexist world that thought women were only ever useful on their backs!

Nevermind that Louis was openly sobbing about how much he HATED being a pimp, cuz all he wanted was to be RESPECTED as a respectable man with a respectable business; and that he DIDN'T want to exploit women, and he KNEW it was wrong to exploit women--the show NEVER glamorized prostitution as if human exploitation of any kind is a GOOD thing. Lou turns a blind eye in the hopes of pleasing his rotten MOTHER & taking care of his spoiled SISTER; who still HATED him even as they took his dirty money. What was it all for, if not even his own family respected him?! But Lou doesn't have regard or respect or care for women at allll~!

We can acknowledge what a deeply flawed & selfish & naive idiot Louis can be; while still acknowledging that he HATES hurting people. He's NOT a sadist, and has never been comfortable or OK with being put in a position where he has to hurt people for his own benefit--hence his whole issue with vampirism & his confession booth scene. His whole thing is STRUGGLE; fighting to do the right thing in bad circumstances, when it's already too late--they're all already DAMNED. Keep up, y'all. XD

"It really opened my eyes up to how both Louis and Claudia as the leading black characters are perceived by the white fandom. It sort of is a reflection of how they see us as black people in real life too...."

FACTS. That's really all it is--antiblack racism plain & simple. You can tell every time they get PISSED whenever Black people get on their case for being insensitive, demeaning, microaggressive, hypocritical, etc. Cuz art imitates life, so if you're THAT quick to demonize the characters that the show's deliberately going to great lengths to show as sympathetic & genuine--ESPECIALLY Louis' love for Claudia--and you're saying Louis DGAF about women & only ever commodifies them, you're deliberately being obtuse & refusing to see the MULTIFACTED aspects of his character.

[camellia-thea]

so @coprinellus-cluster sent me an ask about daniel and armand and why i find them so compelling. that turned into a 2000 word essay. this is very armand focused, but i promise i love daniel too.

anne rice initially wrote armand as an antagonist, and even went into writing qotd with him intended to be part of the antagonistic force, however she found while writing the devil's minion chapter that armand had become someone completely different. i love that. i love that a lot. i have sources for this somewhere but they're buried. i'll add 'em if i find them again.

i love how the chapter takes two characters who had very little identity beyond their interaction with louis and lestat. daniel was functionally exclusively a framing device in the first book. he didn't really have a character, and he literally was not named. armand was defined almost entirely by his relationships, and while his sections have always been my favourite parts of iwtv and tvl, i think there was a lack of depth there that gets discussed so much more in the devil's minion chapter.

armand is a character who has always defined himself by the people around him. from marius, to santino, to the children of darkness, to lestat, to the théâtre des vampires, to louis. each link ushers in a different aspect of himself, and the show deals with the amazingly well. the arun/amadeo/armand, the good nurse or the gremlin, it's phenomenal. daniel in the books is meant to be the next part of the transition. armand goes to both lestat and louis, show me how to live in this modern era.

"We cannot be Marius for you," I said, "or the dark lord, Santino[…]" "You have to suffer through this emptiness," I said, "and find what impels you to continue. If you come with us we will fail you and you will destroy us." "How suffer through it?" [Armand] looked up at me and his eyebrows came together in the most poignant frown. "How do I begin? You move like the right hand of God! But for me the world, the real world in which Marius lived, is beyond reach. I never lived in it. I push against the glass. But how do I get in?" "I can't tell you that," I said. "You have to study this age, " Gabrielle interrupted. Her voice was calm but commanding. He looked towards her as she spoke. "You have to understand the age, " she continued, "through its literature and its music and its art. You have come up out of the earth, as you yourself put it. Now live in the world. " [...] "And what better place is there than the center of things, the boulevard and the theater? " Gabrielle asked. He frowned, his head turning dismissively, but she pressed on. "Your gift is for leading the coven, and your coven is still there."

from the vampire lestat

this conversation you can see is what leads him to approach louis for the same thing.

["]It is through you that I can save myself from the despair which I’ve described to you as our death. It is through you that I must make my link with this nineteenth century and come to understand it in a way that will revitalize me, which I so desperately need. It is for you that I’ve been waiting at the Théâtre des Vampires. If I knew a mortal of that sensitivity, that pain, that focus, I would make him a vampire in an instant. But such can rarely be done. No, I’ve had to wait and watch for you. And now I’ll fight for you. Do you see how ruthless I am in love? Is this what you meant by love?["]

from interview with the vampire

(i do think the little "if i found a mortal with that sensitivity, that pain, that focus, i would make him a vampire in an instant", but that's not the point of this)

armand is a creature of habit, of cycles, and daniel is meant to be the next member of the loop. he uses daniel in the exact same fashion, to usher himself into the new era;

"You are my teacher," Armand told him. "You will tell me everything about this century. I am learning secrets already that have eluded me since the beginning. You'll sleep when the sun rises, if you wish, but the nights are mine."

from queen of the damned

but, something changes with daniel. and i think it is what is missing from louis; daniel has a passion for life and living that louis lacks. he's interviewing people to reveal their lives!

suddenly armand is not being ushered into the new era, he's living it. you get his excitement, his delight, his engagement. he is no longer detached from the world in the way that he is in the first two novels. he is bright and full of life.

daniel remarks a few times about how armand's laughter and delight makes him suddenly look mortal. i find it enthralling. how this one mortal, who's life purpose initially is revealing the lives of people around him to the world, brings the 500 year old vampire joy and delight and that joy stays.

i love that this mortal man could bring anne rice to completely change her perception of armand.

and on daniel's part, he is utterly fascinating. he falls in love with the monster chasing him, for his monstrosity.

Daniel stared hard at the creature before him, this thing that looked human and sounded human but was not. There was a horrid shift in his consciousness; he saw this being like a great insect, a monstrous evil predator who had devoured a million human lives. And yet he loved this thing. He loved its smooth white skin, its great dark brown eyes. He loved it not because it looked like a gentle, thoughtful young man, but because it was ghastly and awful and loathsome, and beautiful all at the same time. He loved it the way people love evil, because it thrills them to the core of their souls. Imagine, killing like that, just taking life any time you want it, just doing it, sinking your teeth into another and taking all that that person can possibly give. Look at the garments he wore. Blue cotton shirt, brass-buttoned denim jacket. Where had he gotten them? Off a victim, yes, like taking out his knife and skinning the kill while it was still warm? No wonder they reeked of salt and blood, though none was visible. And the hair trimmed just as if it weren't going to grow out within twenty-four hours to its regular shoulder length. This is evil. This is illusion. This is what I want to be, which is why I cannot stand to look at him. Armand's lips had moved in a soft, slightly concealed smile. And then his eyes had misted and closed. He had bent close to Daniel, pressed his lips to Daniel's neck.

from queen of the damned

this passage has lived in my mind since i first read queen of the damned. daniel loves armand in spite of his beauty, not because of it. it is the monstrosity that he loves. and it's exactly what armand needs. their relationship has such a push-pull dynamic as well. daniel up and leaving when they have fights, armand waiting him out before reappearing. armand and daniel’s relationship is a direct link to addiction, which i think is really interesting. daniel is quite literally addicted to armand and that’s something i think is really interesting when it comes to mortal relationships with vampires.

there’s also something in the power dynamics between them with armand exerting control over daniel through finances, but it’s really interesting because daniel is rich. he got a lot of money from publishing interview. armand gets him so many things, buys him houses and clothes and a fucking island, and daniel lets him. and i don’t necessarily think daniel has the capacity to really say no here, but it really does make their dynamic super interesting.

i think daniel gives armand the potential to be more than who he was made to be, the roles he was put into. the muse, the protégé, the cult leader, the coven member, he lingers in his own victimhood, and i think it’s a very interesting thing. daniel is an escape from that. daniel loves the vampire, loves the monster, and doesn’t necessarily want something from armand beyond being pulled into vampirism with him. and that is something that armand very distinctly has control to say no to. and i think that’s very important to armand.

"Tell me what you want, Daniel, and I'll get it for you. Why do you keep running away?" "Lies, you bastard. Say that you wanted me. You'll torment me forever, won't you, and then you'll watch me die, and you'll find I that interesting, won't you? It was true what Louis said. You watch them die, your mortal slaves, they mean nothing to you. You'll watch the colors change in my face as I die." "That's Louis's language," Armand said patiently. "Please don't quote that book to me. I'd rather die than see you die, Daniel." "Then give it to me! Damn you! Immortality that close, as close as your arms." "No, Daniel, because I'd rather die than do that, too."

from queen of the damned

this is another moment that lives in my head, i’d rather die than do that too. there is something so electric between them. how willing daniel is to give in to armand, and yet how willing he is to fight for it, for them. i don’t read daniel’s obsession with vampirism being entirely for himself by the end of the era. i truly think that there is an element of it so that he can remain with armand.

but there’s something else there too, that i don’t think the other relationships we see in the vampire chronicles really capture, and that is the mundanity that they relish in together. they go out together, to clubs, to performances, to museums and art galleries, to bars and to rock concerts, but they also experience life together in a way that lestat and louis don’t really convey when narrating their novels. daniel and armand have made a life together, and it’s weird and unconventional but it works. they have houses together, the little villa on night island, it’s just. genuine. it has all the trappings of the unhealthy, awful nature that a mortal and vampire relationship can be, and simultaneously they’ve managed to create something that is domestic. and i don’t think daniel leaving armand, and often the country they were in, necessarily negates it. they’re not good people, it’s not a good relationship, but it’s enough.

and armand does love daniel enough to turn him. that’s a significant part of it. when he is legitimately faced with daniel’s death, he cannot bear the idea of losing him.

and. there’s a bigger part too. daniel is what stops armand from wanting to die.

"Years ago," Armand interrupted, "it wouldn't have mattered to me, all this." "What do you mean?" "But I don't want it to end now. I don't want to continue unless you-" His face changed slightly. Faint look of surprise. "I don't want you to die."

from queen of the damned

daniel has fundamentally changed armand. armand does not want to die. and he does not want to live without daniel.

and it’s awful, and yet it’s enthralling. there was never going to be an outcome in which daniel did not die. it is the fate of any mortal, and most immortals as well. and i think they both knew that. and that’s the tragedy of it too, the beautiful, horrific nature of them both is that armand was always going to be the one who killed daniel, and the only question was whether daniel would remain afterwards.

and i think that armand was never going to let daniel go.

daniel and armand love each other, and i think rice did a disservice to them both by setting them aside in later books, but i won't go into that here.