#Vi and Jinx discussion

[chronicsyd]

"oh you can't say 'Vi doesn't love Jinx like she does Powder' cause with that logic Jinx doesn't love Vi either"

okay, I'll bite. Jinx and Vi Both don't "love" who the other's grown into. Because after being separated for seven years they Both had misconceptions on how the other would turn out like. Vi thought Jinx would be still Powder who was simply being Forced to work with Silco, not that she was Willingly working for him and took the insecurities both Vi and Mylo bestowed upon her and made it her new name/self. Jinx, on the other hand thought that Vi would continue to love her unconditionally no matter How she turned out.

But they were both Wrong.

Despite Sevika telling Vi that Jinx calls herself "Jinx" now, she calls out "Powder" when the two first meet up again, most likely being overwhelmed by seeing her for the first time in seven years, but she continues to treat Jinx like the 11-12 year old that Vi Used to know, much to Jinx's dismay. But you can see the cracks start to form for Vi when she A) talks about her regret in even calling her "Jinx" in the first place and B) when the two are fighting the Firelights and she sees the glee in Jinx's expression in killing them, and it just gets worse from there on out for her. Because that's not the girl that Vi knew, she's changed. And despite everything Vi can't bring herself to love who this new girl is now. Yes, Vi has sat in denial saying she can "get her back", which is part of the problem, Vi's too stuck on trying to get "Powder" back and having things go back to the way they used to be (so yes, Vi doesn't "love" Jinx in the way that she does Powder, people aren't wrong for saying that). And the way Jinx deems that Vi Can "get Powder back" is too much for her, and Vi can't agree with what her sister Wants. She tries to compromise with her sister by "leaving everything behind" but Jinx's own demons don't trust her, and Vi can't see how much distress she's putting her sister in when she tells her to remember Mylo, Claggor and Vander (cause Vi's still set in her ways of "getting Powder back" during this moment).

But on Jinx's side, she claims that Vi "changed to". And it doesn't solely have to do with Caitlyn. She thought that Vi could bring herself to love who Jinx's turned into, despite all her flaws ("I thought, maybe you could love me like you used to. even though I'm... different."), Vi would always be there for her, because that's how Vi's been in the past. Vi's voice from Jinx's past were the thing that kept Jinx going all these years, she said so herself. Despite everything (Mylo's bullying, Powder's insecurities, etc.), the two always had each others backs growing up. The old Vi probably wouldn't've thought twice about hurting an Enforcer, but This Vi can't bring herself to shoot Caitlyn, she simply couldn't do it. And that's too much for Jinx to comprehend. I don't think Jinx can comprehend how or why Vi has let herself grow so attached to this enforcer that she's met merely a couple of days ago but can't show the same for Jinx herself.

Honestly, it's an issue for the both of them, they're both remembering how the other Used to be. And expecting them to still behave in that same way, and grasping with the changes that the other have made has been hard for the both of them.

So, keeping all that in mind; let's talk about "being opposite of what they were in S1" for the both of them shall we? (I'm also gonna add Christian Linke's (co-creator) thoughts from a few days ago as well. I have a lot more to say on Vi than Jinx)

Vi: The main change for S2 compared to S1 is her relationship with Jinx. She probably loses that last remaining hope/denial that she'll ever get Powder back, and with that grows a newfound determination to put an end to the suffering that Jinx has caused. And probably harbors anger and resentment towards Jinx due to her actions. Now deep down would I say there's still love for her sister? hard to say (she probably does in her heart, but her head is going to be leading her this season more than ever) but what I Can say with certainty is that outright forgiveness is off the table. Vi joins the enforcers because she feels what she's doing is right; whether or not you agree is irrelevant. Vi believes she's responsible in the "creation" of Jinx and that what Jinx has done is her responsibility, harboring Vander's words from her past (Christian goes on to ask "can you forgive a monster?" and I think that's what Vi's head sees Jinx as right now, the monster that she created). There's also a discussion of Vi's amnesia from League lore but I don't have certainty if that's going to be put into play this season or not, so something to keep in the back of your mind (for now at least).

Jinx: In S1, Jinx had an unhealthy codependent relationship with Silco due to being tormented by the demons of her past. But with Silco being dead and Vi being committed to taking her down she'll have no one to turn to in the way that she did with Silco. Sure, Sevika's there but their relationship will look nothing like it did with Jinx and Silco. Jinx will have to live for herself and discover her own identity and her own wants for her future; whatever that future holds for her.

[shitpostingsapphic]

I've said before that given the chance, Vi would choose her sister over Caitlyn. I'd like to edit that statement a bit.

Vi refuses to choose between the people she loves. She will choose both of them, always. Vi will always choose love. That is who she is.

The reason Vi pounces on Caitlyn in ep 8 is because for the very first time, she CAN choose both. And the reason she crashed out in act 2 is because she tried to choose one over the other but couldn't go through with it. So she had neither.

"I choose wrong every time" is a line that has been replaying in my head and it has BROKEN me. Vi genuinely believes it's her fault she's alone, but can she even be blamed when all she has ever chosen is love? She can't separate herself from it. It's what she lives and breathes for.

Vi my beloved. 💔💔💔

[rambyol]

How queer! A Piltovian Pressed Powder Palette?

HeadCanon: Silco had Marcus smuggle this across the border because the Leader of Zaun cannot be seen purchasing Piltovian merchandise.

Also can we appreciate the COVERAGE of that pressed powder. Look at the contrast between the upper and lower part of his scarred side in the second image. You ever wonder if he had to trial and error his way through different foundations, concealers, and powders until he landed on what worked for him.

On the topic of Powders…

Remember how Vander suggested to Felicia that he liked the name ‘Violet’. Well since the flashback with Felicia sort of muddled the story and the character dynamics between Vander, Silco, Vi, and Jinx, I’m going to take the liberty of making the assumption that Silco absolutely could’ve suggested the term ‘Powder’. Bear with me here because I know it’s been joked about in the fandom and yet…

We know young Silco wore makeup:

E.g. Eyeliner + Eyeshadow

So I think it’s plausible. I see a scenario where Felicia points out how Silco isn’t wearing his eyeliner/eyeshadow in that scene

and he responds with something along the lines of;

‘Ah I’ve been meaning to get some new powder. Haven’t found one I’m fond of yet.’

And the rest is history.

[pinspec]

i’ve absolutely loved the way vi’s appearance has been modified throughout this season.

in act 1, she retains her season 1 look, which could be seen as symbolic of an enduring self image of someone who must be unyielding and unchanging, i.e. someone who can protect zaun. this strength was borne of anger and grief surrounding the loss of her family, and her unchanged appearance makes clear that this vision of who vi believes herself to be still prevails. she becomes an enforcer after the attack on the memorial—not because she forsakes zaun, but because she believes she can’t protect anyone from jinx without the badge.

this is also the same hair she had when she first met and worked with caitlyn. we get the impression that she wants to be the same tough fighter who can keep them both afloat, but considering that vi seems most vulnerable in the presence of caitlyn—who causes her to suffer by persuading her to become an enforcer—we know this is futile. this theme is present during their first kiss, where vi almost buckles while caitlyn stands up straight.

then after caitlyn’s betrayal, a drastic change to her appearance occurs. she dyes her hair black and applies black eyeshadow, even black paint, to her face. she paints on a defensive facade to hide how vulnerable she is and her misery over making the wrong choice again and again and again. she tries to seem dangerous by making her rage visible but only ends up making her pain visible. hints of pink show through at the ends of her hair.

then jinx asks her to help her save vander, to overcome her lasting hatred for the hope of reuniting their family, and she actually does. she makes herself vulnerable again, and is rewarded by an unreal reconnection with jinx in the serene surroundings of viktor’s commune. she feels a flicker of hope that they might save their father. vi has the chance to forge a self-image that is not related to loss, and she seeks her younger self: the person who would put herself in harm’s way for her sister without a second thought.

then she bumps into caitlyn, who describes her as “an angry oil slick”. vi doesn’t respond with anger as she usually would—she just lets caitlyn see her. “don’t sugarcoat it, cupcake.” her dyed hair and shadowed eyes become a metamorphic signal. i believe caitlyn senses vi’s changing relationship with anger and is pushed to confront her own. she leaves her vendetta behind and defects.

in episode 8, vi’s hair is reverting back to pink and growing longer.

she goes to a locked up, grieving jinx and immediately opens her cage. vi’s transformation is almost complete; she has overcome the rage that made her reject powder all those years ago and replaced it with the desire to hold her sister even if her sister won’t hold her back.

succumbing to the loss of isha and vander, jinx traps vi in the cell and leaves, but it doesn’t matter. vi has become a force of love, not rage. caitlyn finds her, and reveals that she met vi halfway and allowed her to free jinx. caitlyn, too, has let go of her revenge motive. unlike vi, caitlyn’s appearance hasn’t changed, but she still expresses—through actions, not words—that she won’t let her anger control her any longer. she finally affirms her loyalty to vi. now on the same page, they kiss for a second time.

by the end of the finale, some remnants of vi’s transformation remain: her dark eyeshadow, her longer hair. she has come to terms with the things which she allowed to haunt her for a long time, but she must still learn what to do with her grief. she leans on caitlyn’s shoulder and accepts her support. interestingly, a physical change has at last found caitlyn, who wears an eye patch. after losing her mother at the start of the season she tried to remain unchanged and unwavering, but came to the realisation that her obsessive, grief-fuelled anger was obscuring her vision. her eye patch represents both an altered worldview and a newfound vulnerability; her skilled sharpshooting will definitely be impeded.

arcane teaches its characters that sometimes being vulnerable is not the same as being weak, and that attaining emotional clear-sightedness is a turning point on the path to self actualisation.

[jjkyaoi]

i will take a caitvi reconciliation arc IF it’s caitlyn snotting and sniveling at vi’s feet. like. vi deserves to be chased and pampered and treated like a princess after the shit she just put up with bro 😭

[chaotic-neutral-toga]

oh,,, vi's pose when cait leaves her.... is the fucking same.... as powder when vi left her.. .

On the knees, hands clutching the stomach, crying and looking at the person leaving.... yep okay yeah I'm 🙂

[srslylini]

season 2 has a structure problem and that makes act 1 flow naturally enough and it sets up the next acts perfectly well, but they wanted to do so much more than what they were

1. setting up

2. capable of doing in 9 episodes

had they just cut a few plot lines everything would've moved far easier. For example

1. cut the Smeech thing entirely. Sevika and Jinx don't need this to find themselves together and start a found family. That scene In Silcos office was so moving and everything I always loved about Arcane, stuff like this is what's needed. In fact move the prison break to act 1 and have them handle that together, Jinx can still make Sevika her arm, and everything could've still moved the same. It would've fit so much better and there also would've been so much more time to develop anything else with the magic system and act 2 wouldn't feel like it was overflowing with anything and everything. Isha is a character that as of in the show can be cut so easily and that's so sad because she'd be so interesting. Everything about her would've worked and SHOULD HAVE worked but she also just felt like Plot and a thing to make Jinx sad over again. Either don't do that or make Isha not a character like this???? I liked her scenes with Jinx so much and the scene with Jinx freaking out after finding out that Isha was taken to prison was genuinely so good, I'm still holding on to the hope that they didn't actually kill her

2. either cut that shit with the tree because let's be so honest that basically only happened so that Heimerdinger, Ekko and Jayce could meet, since we do NOT even really talk about the tree in act 2? that was so weird. Like either actually make it a thing or find different ways to let characters meet naturally. I dont know, the show was so good with that in season 1. And if they truly wanted the tree scene at least make it make sense and don't randomly drop it Idk.

3. I LOVE Mel she is like my favorite character but the plot with the black rose takes so much necessary time away from what we actually need to focus on. I heard they want to make different shows so they are setting this up but it just doesn't work. Mel could've so easily been integrated into the main plot line and it would've also made so much more sense at that. Though I'll just wait on act 3 before I judge too hard. (if they actually DARE to make her pregnant Istg)

4. Making Jinx that hero character for only like, what, a few seconds was so strange. I hope act 3 gets that better but that, first of all, happened mostly out of no where and a few touches to her shoulder after the prison scene was also not??? helping??? either set that up from the very start or don't do it at all. She isn't a hero, she is a tragedy and someone who needs help and room to breathe. The scenes where they tried to make that funny, in my opinion didn't land at all. She doesn't need a hero complex she needs calmness and stable relationships. Let Isha live I swear to GOD.

in fact that leads me into the next point

5. Have Vi realize she doesn't want to be an enforcerer sooner? I actually do like how rushed that part felt don't get me wrong, but if they wanted a reunion between Jinx and Vi don't randomly put it into act 2 with barely any build up. Let Jinx and Vi realize it during the fight, they kinda did do that but??? just didn't move that anywhere. it's so strange. If they had cut the Smeech stuff they could've easily used the third episode to make Jinx and Vi slowly reconcile. Which also means I think Vi would've been such a better "symbol" than Jinx. Vi and Jinx, for me, show what Zaun is made of, and Jinx is quite literally the valid pain, distrust and anger of Zaun, and she as well as Zaun desperately need healing. Like that would've been SO COOL. that's just my opinion though, so there is that.

6. If they had made Vi the symbol the conflict between Caitlyn and Vi would've felt a lot more natural as well. Like??? Also Caitlyn should've had so much more time if they wanted that switch up in the end to work. Cut the black rose stuff and that would've worked perfectly fine.

7. Now do NOT get me wrong, Ambessa's character is so interesting and I feel like exploring her is so cool but she and her plot just doesn't fit into the Piltover/Zaun thing. It makes it too big for what the show is. In fact I (and now this is just my opinion, anyone can have their own just saying lmao) would've either cut out Ambessa's character/plotline or subtly continued Ambessas drama with Mel, which would give Mel, who didn't get taken by the black rose in my version, a lot more to do and way more interesting stuff too. Again this is very much my opinion and doesn't mean anyone needs to share it, but I feel like they could've easily made Heimerdinger be the one who gets Caitlyn to where she was/is with Ambessa. It would've expanded Heimerdingers character and it would've stayed in the setting they already perfectly build up, Piltover and Zaun. Also, Heimerdinger wouldn't just feel like a random joke character anymore.

8. The Pit fight stuff could have been SO interesting and I feel had we not stayed with Viktor Christ so much which was also so weird at times, we could've gotten so much necessary insight on Vi. If we follow my idea it could've been Vi forced to be a symbol because of the person she is. The embodiment of Zauns loyalty, strength and resilience. And then the fights that will come out of that forcing Vi to face so much stuff she shouldn't etc etc (I haven't fleshed that one out yet don't come for me) and that could've ended in her pit fighting era, which should've taken at LEAST an episode and not a random montage that just gets forgotten??? for no reason at all. Really hope act 3 talks about that cause??? I feel with Vi as the leader the healing of Zaun would make so much sense, because Jinx realistically can't do that. The idea of Jinx being in that position IS interesting I just feel it wasn't established/developed enough.

9. I really really liked how from the very beginning Viktor's safe haven did not in fact feel safe. There was always a very uneasy feeling and that's what I love about the show. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop and it happened, that was amazing. Though I would've either established a lot of this way earlier on in the show or made it not so, and now walk with me here Ik its magic, unrealistic. That does sound strange but having Viktor suddenly float in space with white silver flowing hair and his dead assistent next to him was... very very out of no where. It was like a lazy show trying to get away with "yeah well it's magic so of course this works" and I hate that because even magic needs explanation and build up. So yeah. Either cut that shit out or have it established sooner. And while seeing the one person who helped Jayce as a kid did kind of help, it still wasn't enough for THIS, though again MY OPINION. Also we spent way too much time there, it was getting ridiculous. So much time could've easily been lent to stuff that actually needed it. I actually laughed out loud when Viktor started the healing process with Vander because come ON now, and I do not think they wanted me to laugh.

10. The stuff with Vander, Silco and Felicia (while cute) was unnecessary and weird. What I liked the most about Vander taking in Vi and Powder was the feeling that he didn't do it because he necessarily knew them very well but because he knew their mom was dead (that did show he and their mother did kind of know each other but so do like all the people in the lanes that is kind of established) and wanted to PROTECT. This new context sadly makes it feel like "well of course he stopped everything and took them with them and cared for them he knew them since birth, duh" when I always wanted to feel "well Vander is in his heart a good man who saw what terrible stuff this war and fighting did and then took in orphaned children because of course he would do that" if that makes sense? I feel this new thing took away so much from Vander, but again that's maybe just me.

11. So many jokes and scenes didn't land with me. The scene with Jinx trying to show Sevika her middle finger was SO GOOD and so Arcane that seeing the scene were they try to make it funny with Jinx's trousers and that enforcerer felt so out of place? Like what. That scene could have EASILY been cut and nothing would have changed at all. And that's what is the worst because there isn't one scene in season 1 that I feel could've been cut and there are so many of them in season 2.

12. Introducing Maddie in act 1 made me believe she'd be a bigger, even more of a threat to Zaun, character than she was and that's so sad. What I loved about season 1 is that every single character mattered. Even those we saw maybe once. This time around I hardly cared at all for any new character because they didn't feel like a Person anymore, they just felt like Plot. In season 1 episode 1 there is this scene, the first scene Vander gets to speak in. The only reason Huck meets the woman and the man to trait was basically so we get to know how the undercity works and establish Vander as basically its leader and protecter; The one people are loyal to etc. But it doesn't feel that way. It's something that naturally happens and every character in that scene, even the man and the woman we never see again, mattered and felt real.

yeah so those were really just my thoughts. I could very much go on but I also don't want to.

[rnadett]

Some Vi fans were the biggest haters of their "favorite" character.

Those who whined the most about her character development in s2 wanted nothing more than a simple Naruto narrative where she was the hero who saved her sister, and her "side woman" completely conformed to her character—losing her personality like Hinata. They didn’t want Caitlyn to function as an independent character beside her, nor did they want Jinx to be seen as autonomous.

Moreover, they completely misunderstood Vi’s trauma and character, which was just as deep as Jinx’s. However, because hers wasn’t presented “in-your-face,” it was often overlooked, and since she masked it better, (She felt the need to pretend to be strong all the time) making her healing process even more difficult.

Our girl never wanted to be a hero; she just wanted her family back.

[aphwaph]

have some incorrect quotes I made while I die from act 2

[tinseltrinkets]

The ending of Arcane did have its imperfections, but I don’t think all of them are unintentional. Yes, some of it I’d say are flaws in the writing, but in terms of there being some lack of closure and the issues regarding Piltover’s oppression of Zaun not being fully resolved, Caitlyn and Vi not communicating fully, it feels fitting.

Caitlyn asks Vi if she’s still in the fight because she’s right, the fight isn’t over. Humanity is a cycle of violence and peace, it’s inescapable, but any moment that you can deliver even the smallest amount of solace within those is cosmically significant and it is always worth it.

Even between each other, Caitlyn and Vi still have a lot to work through. Communication is key in relationships, but they have the base understanding that they love each other, and that matters.

And even with Sevika as a councilor, there’s still so much to be done in terms of reparations and truly understanding the consequences of their bigotry and oppressive regime. Jinx understands this, but it’s no longer her place to be the symbol of resistance, and it never was. She takes to the skies and leaves the cities to a rocky resolution that she doesn’t need to be apart of anymore.

(Maybe I’m biased because I’m a Jayce and Viktor stan and I’m very happy for them but I do want all the characters to be happy and equally so. I’m also hoping Ekko’s still in touch with Vi and the firelights and that Mel finds peace too)

[shitpostingsapphic]

Violet, my beloved.

I think there's a high chance you're misinterpreting the core tenants of her character.

"Why didn't Vi play a bigger role in the fight for Zaun's independence?"

Because her goals are different from those like Ekko and Sevika, who were true leaders and caretakers of their city. Who lived and breathed for the wellbeing and betterment of Zaun.

Vi lived and breathed for the wellbeing of her FAMILY.

Any qualms she had in relation to Zaun's oppression were always tied to how they negatively affected the lives of her and her family. She may have made side comments to other characters about how their actions affect the citizens of Zaun. Like Caitlyn, when they first meet. Or Jayce, after the attack they make on Silco's manufacturing facility. But she makes the comment to Caitlyn because that's how she's seen the enforcers treat her in her own life. She makes the comment to Jayce because that's just the context of the conversation they're having. Vi gets wrapped up in the bigger politics because of her pursuit of Silco, which she would have never done if he weren't directly tied to her sister.

Selfish? If you think too hard about it, maybe. But it's an incredibly relatable motivation, and one that a lot of us would adhere to. We would do anything for our loved ones.

"Why does Vi become an enforcer? That seems contradictory to her character."

Why does Vi team up with an enforcer to begin with? Because Caitlyn becomes the conduit in which Vi can get back to her family. To the one person she loves more than anything. And Caitlyn is also the conduit in which Vi can seek out those who have harmed her family--Silco, and in relation, Sevika.

And along the way, she falls in love with Caitlyn, because of the quality of character that Cait shows to her.

So what is Vi to do when she's lost everything? Silco is dead, and Jinx is lost to her. What else would Vi do, but do anything to stay by Caitlyn's side?

"Everyone in my life has changed, promise me you won't change." She is BEGGING Caitlyn to stay, to be with her, to be the one thing she loves that doesn't fade away, and she's also afraid that she's abandoned her origins for nothing.

What else is Vi to do but crash out, lose herself to violence and drinking, when she truly has lost everyone?

When she asks Jinx in act 2 to stay in the commune and help them out, she asks because it's something they can do together. It's the way she can be with those she loves.

Vi just wants to be with those she loves. That's all she's ever wanted. It's what has stayed constant for her character throughout the entirety of the show.

Victims of oppressive systems don't always want to be the hero. Sometimes they just want to survive and be with the people they love.

I think if you gathered anything else from her character, or rather, you interpreted her motivations to be anything else, you got lost along the way with what story you were being told through Vi.

[vi-as-in-violet]

i think the main feeling i have about this season so far is that i crave to see MORE, but not in a good way. i love the themes this season is working with, i love the conflicts, i love the characters but it feels like i don't see enough of the story playing out and it leaves me feeling like something is missing.

I wanted to SEE and experience the underground resistance growing, i wanted to actually see how Jinx became a symbol and how that united the underground. I wanted to see the process of it and how it affected her! I feel like the writers really should've gone with the traditional show-don't-tell rule here instead of just showing us the aftermath which left me with exactly zero emotions about such crazy impressive and important events. The entire Underground got united (!!!!) but we saw zero of the unification process and got like two scenes before they were all arrested, released and then the entire revolution idea was completely forgotten and not addressed once in the rest of the act (as far as I recall).

Jinx was clearly struggling with the newfound worship, so much so she went into HIDING. how must've she felt knowing that so many people find hope in her when she sees herself as a literal jinx? how did she deal with becoming people's hope instead of their curse? I wanted to see her work through this so bad since that is what Arcane has always been good at, it's what season one did so well - it walked you through the emotions and motives and therefore, the conclusion to personal plot lines felt SATISFYING and left massive impression. this was completely missing for me this act for most plot lines

Same goes for pitfighter!Vi and her descent into self-destructive hell. We don't get to see the emotional fall out of her being fucking punched and left lying on the ground by the only person she thought she had left - we just got a montage showing the aftermath of her spiraling. which is cool but it left me with feeling pretty much nothing about it all because seeing the conclusion to her struggling without the build-up just fell flat for me. i was looking forward this specific internal conflict of the protector archetype with nothing left to protect and therefore completely losing themselves before finding their purpose again SO much and it ended up being completely brushed over. i wanted to be able to pick Vi's thoughts apart when she was at her lowest point in life since her time in the jail and see how her behaviour and relationship with people/alcohol/violence changes in the process. like later in act 2 when she punches Isha, she doesn't even react (holy shit?). that is SO far from the Vi we saw in act 1 of this season and it feels super out of character because we did not actually get to SEE her behaviour and priorities changing - we can obviously figure out the reason and understand why she ended up this way but since we weren't actually shown how it happened, it still initially felt like it came out of nowhere and majorly ooc for the character we've known so far

and don't even let me start with Cait and her dictator arc. I was getting ready for the emotional fall out and internal conflict and the political powerplay with Embessa but we got SO LITTLE of it. i could go on and on about this but i feel like a lot of people might agree her dictator arc was pretty underdeveloped so I am not going to discuss it further (plus the immediate switch when she met Vi again was just ??? because we can't really see how she feels about this entire thing with the exception of her thinking Embessa is too brutal and that it seems to be weighting on her. PLUS she has at least a situationship with that sunshine enforcer and even tho she is clearly mentally elsewhere, we have no reason to think she is still pinning after Vi?).

I'm not even going to address Jayce because What.

On a positive note, I think Victor's arc has been handled pretty damn well. But aside from that, this season just leaves me craving more and it is quite clear to me the writers absolutely did not have enough time (nine episodes is not a lot) to develop the story they wanted to portray in full.

Now, I watched the latest three episodes while on a plane and since the act is so plot heavy, i might have totally missed or misunderstood something, lemme know if that is the case

i am super interested in how's everyone feeling about this so feel free to add your thoughts!!!

[waywardwhispersblaze]

a bit of follow up to this post - re - does Vi know or suspect about Jinx's fate after S2

I've seen so many posts here or on reddit claiming that Caitlyn suspects something but chooses not to tell Vi "until she knows for sure", or because Vi "would break if she knew".

...which sort of implies that Vi can't be trusted when it comes to Jinx and that Caitlyn is the reasonable and level-headed one in the matter.

And I just think it's funny because the show consistently shows us the opposite - Caitlyn is the one who has been (understandably!) blinded by her rage toward Jinx and is the one who ultimately defers to Vi's judgment to make the right call ("Vi thinks Jinx deserves a second chance? Alright, I'm gonna let her go free - nevermind that everyone in Piltover including my own father would hate me for my decision if they knew)"

And Vi's judgment is ultimately proven right - "she can't give up on Jinx" not in the sense that she's doomed to chase after her forever, but in the sense that she was right to see the good in her (how do we know that? Jinx comes back to save the day!). And none of that changes in the last scene.

[mary-laib]

As much as I wish timebomb could have gotten more moments together in their universe, I do believe that excluding those moments was both better for Jinx as a character and one of the most feminist things I've seen done by a show that never exclusively talks about feminism. And I feel like it also better displays Ekko's care for her. He is fully willing to take a step back and let her have an identity that is wholly seperate from him.

Jinx is the most subtly pro-feminist character I've seen in a while. There's no yelling about the unfairness of being a woman, there's no trying to make her have more masculine characteristics in order to make her "better" than other women. She is a girl who dresses femininely, loves pastels and arts, who can fight with weapons and is a total badass, but isn't overtly compensating her feminine nature with strength, and while she has a love interest, he is not even second to her character and development. His love for her doesn't have any effect on her as a person.

Arcane is truly about two sisters and their relationship and I think that timebomb having more moments would overshadow the fact that the show is about HER and VI.

I think a lot of people tend to forget that and let things like JayVik overshadow that this show was really made for the girls and I think that their characters deserve to be celebrated more.

Anyways love to the Arcane fandom ❤️

[aviyx]

Discussing Caitlyn Kiramman

Caitlyn, especially in the second season, reminds me of Macbeth in all the worst and most concerning ways.

At the start of Macbeth, Macdonwald is a character who had committed treason and was killed by Macbeth, as at that point he still had his morality.

This is similar to how at the start of Arcane, Caitlyn was an enforcer who did her job, and did it well without engaging in any of the corruption that seemed pretty rampant at this point.

Later, Macbeth's wife Lady Macbeth, in a self serving manner, manipulates Macbeth into committing regicide by killing the king. He's obviously hesitant to do this as it goes against his morals, but with the encouragement, he does go through with it on his own accord. Despite having the power of being the Thane of Cawdor and Glamis, he still does this in attempt to get more power. After this, he successfully becomes king.

Now, I don't think Caitlyn is acting how she is in attempt of power, however thats definitely one of the outcomes of her actions. Ambessa, who is who I see in Lady Macbeth's role in this analogy, is also manipulating Caitlyn in order to gain personally, and to encourage war so that hextech weapons are made and she can use them to fight her own battles. Caitlyn has a moral code, yet despite this she does do bad things. She uses the grey as a tool to clear out the streets, when that is a literal war crime. She knows this is wrong, emphasised by her mothers words that go starkly against her actions playing right before the scene. She also takes the position of power Ambessa presents her with despite her in earlier episodes likely being against Ambessa's whole cause, and the war that she's about to start.

Macbeth, before this, has a friend called Banquo, who suspects that he killed Duncan for the throne and power. Macbeth then gets him assassinated.

This is, albeit less so, reminiscent of Vi, and how after being called out on her actions, Caitlyn hits her and leaves.

Considering we only have 3 episodes of season 2, I cant be sure whether this continues progressing, but if it does, there are a few things I am assuming will happen in arc 2 and 3.

I think Caitlyn is going to start hallucinating more. The hallucinations might be of Vi, as Macbeth hallucinates seeing Banquo after causing his death, but they could also be of her mother, Jinx or even Isha, as she could've easily killed either of them had Vi not stopped her.

Now if you have read Macbeth, you'll realize i haven't mentioned one of the main reasons Macbeth turns into a usurper. The witches and their prophecy. And this is honestly because I'm not sure.

I think its entirely possible that the witches could be symbolised through the hextech, as we know the hextech weapons act up sometimes, as shown in episode 3. Its possible they may lead to hallucinations, similar to that of Victor, if they're used repeatedly while acting up, which I can imagine Caitlyn doing.

Otherwise, I think the witches could be symbolised through Jinx, and possibly Sevika and Isha to maintain the symbolism of threes. This is because the 3 of them represent the power Caitlyn wishes she has- the power to avenge her mother.

Either way, I'm hoping that Caitlyn doesn't stay on this path, as Macbeth is a tragedy for a reason.

[srslylini]

The thing about Act 1 of season 2 is that, while in context with the rest of s2 it was bad, they actually did set up a good story and continued season 1 pretty amazingly.

There were still some problems but genuinely most of those problems stem from the rest of the Episodes not delivering and not on the first 3 setting stuff up.

Act 1 giving us the tree being sick? Really good idea, perfect set up even the connection between the hextech and it being sick? Nice as fuck. It's what they did with it (nothing) and how it didn't matter (at all) that destroys Act 1.

Caitlyn's set up was absolutely not bad, and a lot of people were praising it. It made sense for her character and it also didn't seem like they thought she was right. Not with all the other episodes after Act 1, though. Contrary to populer believe I like morally not so good (evil) characters if they make sense. Caitlyns narrative was promising to be interesting they just didn't do anything with it and acted like what she did in Act 1 was fine and excusable and alright. It wasn't. Had they actually done something with what they set up with her, well I wouldn't be standing here now.

They also promised this season being a Vi focused season and while I would say that Act 1 did actually give us a lot of Vi, in context with the other Acts... no. In hindsight there was no need to make her an Enforcer. "But the lore-" I'm gonna stop you right there, they also completely changed Viktors lore, and even Jinx' lore. So?

CaitVi was also something that, in Act 1, I was way more ready to get behind. I was a CaitVi shipper in season 1, I did like their dynamic and wanted it explored. I liked their kiss. I did not like what they did after that. Not Caitlyn hitting Vi and then getting to hit her again and never apologizing. I am a lesbian and here I am telling you: Everything that happened with them was weird.

Act 1 also gave us this genuine good found family between Isha, Sevika and Jinx. It was so moving and well done even in such short of a time (there is still stuff to criticize about it but the consensus is that it is awesome so yk I can overlook certain stuff). And then they turned around and wrote Sevika completely out of the story and killed the plot device that was Isha. When Isha should have mattered.

I didn't even originally dislike how many new characters they introduced because season 1 once mastered characters like this. Maddie seemed promising, until she wasn't. Loris seemed interesting and well thought out until he wasn't. Lest was such a good addition until she was just written out of the show completely. Don't even get me started on Steb.

Ambessas ploy in Act 1 was also something that I genuinely liked. Even Mel figuring out a mystery was good. Until they decided "well that doesn't matter anymore".

In Act 1 I did actually like the subtleties. I liked how Caitlyn saw the Violets and how, in episode 3 of s2 she saw one through her rifles lense (I have no idea what that is called, sue me haha) floating over Jinx. Because it was a nice add on and nothing that would destroy your viewing experience if not noticed, and it wasn't on the nose.

While a lot of directions they took, I was already questioning (the Smeech stuff took up way too much time) I was ready to give that a pass because it didn't destroy anything, yet.

Up until episode 4, it all seemed well enough, and while the prison scene also made me question stuff (that god damn Enforcer pants joke oh my god I will never let that go what was that) it wasn't anything too bad, yet.

The reason Act 1 doesn't work now is because of Act 2 and Act 3. Had Act 1 stood alone or had Act 2 and Act 3 delivered on Act 1, we wouldn't have that much of a problem. As it is the further Acts destroy what Act 1 seemed to carefully build up.

In the end what seemed purposefully and artistically done in Act 1 now seems like something the writers actually believe.