#Vi and Jinx discussion

[chronicsyd]

"oh you can't say 'Vi doesn't love Jinx like she does Powder' cause with that logic Jinx doesn't love Vi either"

okay, I'll bite. Jinx and Vi Both don't "love" who the other's grown into. Because after being separated for seven years they Both had misconceptions on how the other would turn out like. Vi thought Jinx would be still Powder who was simply being Forced to work with Silco, not that she was Willingly working for him and took the insecurities both Vi and Mylo bestowed upon her and made it her new name/self. Jinx, on the other hand thought that Vi would continue to love her unconditionally no matter How she turned out.

But they were both Wrong.

Despite Sevika telling Vi that Jinx calls herself "Jinx" now, she calls out "Powder" when the two first meet up again, most likely being overwhelmed by seeing her for the first time in seven years, but she continues to treat Jinx like the 11-12 year old that Vi Used to know, much to Jinx's dismay. But you can see the cracks start to form for Vi when she A) talks about her regret in even calling her "Jinx" in the first place and B) when the two are fighting the Firelights and she sees the glee in Jinx's expression in killing them, and it just gets worse from there on out for her. Because that's not the girl that Vi knew, she's changed. And despite everything Vi can't bring herself to love who this new girl is now. Yes, Vi has sat in denial saying she can "get her back", which is part of the problem, Vi's too stuck on trying to get "Powder" back and having things go back to the way they used to be (so yes, Vi doesn't "love" Jinx in the way that she does Powder, people aren't wrong for saying that). And the way Jinx deems that Vi Can "get Powder back" is too much for her, and Vi can't agree with what her sister Wants. She tries to compromise with her sister by "leaving everything behind" but Jinx's own demons don't trust her, and Vi can't see how much distress she's putting her sister in when she tells her to remember Mylo, Claggor and Vander (cause Vi's still set in her ways of "getting Powder back" during this moment).

But on Jinx's side, she claims that Vi "changed to". And it doesn't solely have to do with Caitlyn. She thought that Vi could bring herself to love who Jinx's turned into, despite all her flaws ("I thought, maybe you could love me like you used to. even though I'm... different."), Vi would always be there for her, because that's how Vi's been in the past. Vi's voice from Jinx's past were the thing that kept Jinx going all these years, she said so herself. Despite everything (Mylo's bullying, Powder's insecurities, etc.), the two always had each others backs growing up. The old Vi probably wouldn't've thought twice about hurting an Enforcer, but This Vi can't bring herself to shoot Caitlyn, she simply couldn't do it. And that's too much for Jinx to comprehend. I don't think Jinx can comprehend how or why Vi has let herself grow so attached to this enforcer that she's met merely a couple of days ago but can't show the same for Jinx herself.

Honestly, it's an issue for the both of them, they're both remembering how the other Used to be. And expecting them to still behave in that same way, and grasping with the changes that the other have made has been hard for the both of them.

So, keeping all that in mind; let's talk about "being opposite of what they were in S1" for the both of them shall we? (I'm also gonna add Christian Linke's (co-creator) thoughts from a few days ago as well. I have a lot more to say on Vi than Jinx)

Vi: The main change for S2 compared to S1 is her relationship with Jinx. She probably loses that last remaining hope/denial that she'll ever get Powder back, and with that grows a newfound determination to put an end to the suffering that Jinx has caused. And probably harbors anger and resentment towards Jinx due to her actions. Now deep down would I say there's still love for her sister? hard to say (she probably does in her heart, but her head is going to be leading her this season more than ever) but what I Can say with certainty is that outright forgiveness is off the table. Vi joins the enforcers because she feels what she's doing is right; whether or not you agree is irrelevant. Vi believes she's responsible in the "creation" of Jinx and that what Jinx has done is her responsibility, harboring Vander's words from her past (Christian goes on to ask "can you forgive a monster?" and I think that's what Vi's head sees Jinx as right now, the monster that she created). There's also a discussion of Vi's amnesia from League lore but I don't have certainty if that's going to be put into play this season or not, so something to keep in the back of your mind (for now at least).

Jinx: In S1, Jinx had an unhealthy codependent relationship with Silco due to being tormented by the demons of her past. But with Silco being dead and Vi being committed to taking her down she'll have no one to turn to in the way that she did with Silco. Sure, Sevika's there but their relationship will look nothing like it did with Jinx and Silco. Jinx will have to live for herself and discover her own identity and her own wants for her future; whatever that future holds for her.

[jjkyaoi]

i will take a caitvi reconciliation arc IF it’s caitlyn snotting and sniveling at vi’s feet. like. vi deserves to be chased and pampered and treated like a princess after the shit she just put up with bro 😭

[pinspec]

i’ve absolutely loved the way vi’s appearance has been modified throughout this season.

in act 1, she retains her season 1 look, which could be seen as symbolic of an enduring self image of someone who must be unyielding and unchanging, i.e. someone who can protect zaun. this strength was borne of anger and grief surrounding the loss of her family, and her unchanged appearance makes clear that this vision of who vi believes herself to be still prevails. she becomes an enforcer after the attack on the memorial—not because she forsakes zaun, but because she believes she can’t protect anyone from jinx without the badge.

this is also the same hair she had when she first met and worked with caitlyn. we get the impression that she wants to be the same tough fighter who can keep them both afloat, but considering that vi seems most vulnerable in the presence of caitlyn—who causes her to suffer by persuading her to become an enforcer—we know this is futile. this theme is present during their first kiss, where vi almost buckles while caitlyn stands up straight.

then after caitlyn’s betrayal, a drastic change to her appearance occurs. she dyes her hair black and applies black eyeshadow, even black paint, to her face. she paints on a defensive facade to hide how vulnerable she is and her misery over making the wrong choice again and again and again. she tries to seem dangerous by making her rage visible but only ends up making her pain visible. hints of pink show through at the ends of her hair.

then jinx asks her to help her save vander, to overcome her lasting hatred for the hope of reuniting their family, and she actually does. she makes herself vulnerable again, and is rewarded by an unreal reconnection with jinx in the serene surroundings of viktor’s commune. she feels a flicker of hope that they might save their father. vi has the chance to forge a self-image that is not related to loss, and she seeks her younger self: the person who would put herself in harm’s way for her sister without a second thought.

then she bumps into caitlyn, who describes her as “an angry oil slick”. vi doesn’t respond with anger as she usually would—she just lets caitlyn see her. “don’t sugarcoat it, cupcake.” her dyed hair and shadowed eyes become a metamorphic signal. i believe caitlyn senses vi’s changing relationship with anger and is pushed to confront her own. she leaves her vendetta behind and defects.

in episode 8, vi’s hair is reverting back to pink and growing longer.

she goes to a locked up, grieving jinx and immediately opens her cage. vi’s transformation is almost complete; she has overcome the rage that made her reject powder all those years ago and replaced it with the desire to hold her sister even if her sister won’t hold her back.

succumbing to the loss of isha and vander, jinx traps vi in the cell and leaves, but it doesn’t matter. vi has become a force of love, not rage. caitlyn finds her, and reveals that she met vi halfway and allowed her to free jinx. caitlyn, too, has let go of her revenge motive. unlike vi, caitlyn’s appearance hasn’t changed, but she still expresses—through actions, not words—that she won’t let her anger control her any longer. she finally affirms her loyalty to vi. now on the same page, they kiss for a second time.

by the end of the finale, some remnants of vi’s transformation remain: her dark eyeshadow, her longer hair. she has come to terms with the things which she allowed to haunt her for a long time, but she must still learn what to do with her grief. she leans on caitlyn’s shoulder and accepts her support. interestingly, a physical change has at last found caitlyn, who wears an eye patch. after losing her mother at the start of the season she tried to remain unchanged and unwavering, but came to the realisation that her obsessive, grief-fuelled anger was obscuring her vision. her eye patch represents both an altered worldview and a newfound vulnerability; her skilled sharpshooting will definitely be impeded.

arcane teaches its characters that sometimes being vulnerable is not the same as being weak, and that attaining emotional clear-sightedness is a turning point on the path to self actualisation.

[chaotic-neutral-toga]

oh,,, vi's pose when cait leaves her.... is the fucking same.... as powder when vi left her.. .

On the knees, hands clutching the stomach, crying and looking at the person leaving.... yep okay yeah I'm 🙂

[arowyn-m]

I meant to do this ages ago but knowing the leaks exist is driving me insane so I’m devoting my energy to it now—

Obsessed with the idea of Arcane characters becoming their opposites in S2 so I’ve attempted to summarize each character in 3 words—a good quality or strength, a bad quality or weakness, and a neutral trait.

Vi: Protective, Hotheaded, Sentimental

Caitlyn: Empathetic, Naive, Perceptive

Jinx: Creative, Impulsive, Childish

Ekko: Nurturing, Aggressive, Distrustful

Heimer: Patient, Unresponsive, Pessimistic

Jayce: Charismatic, Shortsighted, Proud

Viktor: Self-sacrificing, Stubborn, Reserved

Mel: Wise, Manipulative, Perfectionistic

Singed: Calculated, Sadistic, Cryptic

Sevika: Loyal, Impatient, Honest

Ambessa: Cunning, Ruthless, Selfish

Assuming that these are solid descriptors for each character, and S2 will show these characters becoming their own opposites, we can expect good qualities to become bad ones and vice versa. Neutral qualities may also be turned on their heads:

Vi: Vulnerable, Apathetic, Repressing

Caitlyn: Cold, Experienced, Blinded

Jinx: Destructive (in maybe a different context than S1), Deliberate, Mature

Ekko: Neglectful, Avoidant, Trusting

Heimer: Impatient, Proactive, Lighthearted

Jayce: Unlikable, Farsighted, Humble (or Humbled)

Viktor: Selfish, Compromising, Outspoken

Mel: Foolish, Sincere, Self-accepting

Singed: Careless, Empathetic, Unambiguous

Sevika: Independent, Patient, Aloof

Ambessa: Candid, Merciful, Self-sacrificing

Further analysis below ->

A lot of these qualities are probably going to be tweaked. I don’t think we’re going to get a wildly empathetic Singed, but rather we’ll see some more of his personal motivations, which will show him to be more feeling than he seems.

I honestly don’t see us getting a straight-up self-centered Viktor, so part of me believes that he’ll be “selfish” in the context of his personal ambitions. He’s been working in tandem with Jayce for years; been willing to give up time for other projects that aren’t Undercity-centric. Viktor’s focus is going to be entirely on physically healing the Undercity—a project that only he seems to see the value in. That’s probably going to be the “selfish” aspect we see from him.

Or at least I really hope so.

Viktor’s selflessness is such an integral part of his character that it’s hard to imagine him suddenly becoming self-absorbed, but if the writers handle it well, then 👍

Similar issue with Jayce—I don’t see Jayce becoming humble so much as being humbled or put in his place (maybe by Ambessa, who looks poised to usurp Piltover’s Council judging by previous story beats and her strong presence in the S2 poster.

I like Jayce as a character and really think the fandom doesn’t give him enough credit for caring about those around him—but he’s pretty full of himself, and I only see him leaning further into that trait as those he trusts (Mel, Viktor, Caitlyn) are either pulled away or abandon him.

Sevika’s possible development in particular is quite interesting specifically because she is a follower by definition. In S1, Sevika would not have made a good leader, but maybe she will in S2.

Sevika could start acting independently to contrast her previous loyalty. Even when in an alliance she can have independent motives. We know she’s going to team up with Jinx but it’s unlikely that Sevika is going to be personally devoted to her, and maybe this alliance is a temporary, spur-of-the-moment decision.

If Sevika starts being independent, I’ve no doubt she’ll later become Renata Glasc.

okay that’s it! Feel free to add to this or take away or completely contradict me I’d love to continue to think about and discuss what defines these characters :)

[srslylini]

season 2 has a structure problem and that makes act 1 flow naturally enough and it sets up the next acts perfectly well, but they wanted to do so much more than what they were

1. setting up

2. capable of doing in 9 episodes

had they just cut a few plot lines everything would've moved far easier. For example

1. cut the Smeech thing entirely. Sevika and Jinx don't need this to find themselves together and start a found family. That scene In Silcos office was so moving and everything I always loved about Arcane, stuff like this is what's needed. In fact move the prison break to act 1 and have them handle that together, Jinx can still make Sevika her arm, and everything could've still moved the same. It would've fit so much better and there also would've been so much more time to develop anything else with the magic system and act 2 wouldn't feel like it was overflowing with anything and everything. Isha is a character that as of in the show can be cut so easily and that's so sad because she'd be so interesting. Everything about her would've worked and SHOULD HAVE worked but she also just felt like Plot and a thing to make Jinx sad over again. Either don't do that or make Isha not a character like this???? I liked her scenes with Jinx so much and the scene with Jinx freaking out after finding out that Isha was taken to prison was genuinely so good, I'm still holding on to the hope that they didn't actually kill her

2. either cut that shit with the tree because let's be so honest that basically only happened so that Heimerdinger, Ekko and Jayce could meet, since we do NOT even really talk about the tree in act 2? that was so weird. Like either actually make it a thing or find different ways to let characters meet naturally. I dont know, the show was so good with that in season 1. And if they truly wanted the tree scene at least make it make sense and don't randomly drop it Idk.

3. I LOVE Mel she is like my favorite character but the plot with the black rose takes so much necessary time away from what we actually need to focus on. I heard they want to make different shows so they are setting this up but it just doesn't work. Mel could've so easily been integrated into the main plot line and it would've also made so much more sense at that. Though I'll just wait on act 3 before I judge too hard. (if they actually DARE to make her pregnant Istg)

4. Making Jinx that hero character for only like, what, a few seconds was so strange. I hope act 3 gets that better but that, first of all, happened mostly out of no where and a few touches to her shoulder after the prison scene was also not??? helping??? either set that up from the very start or don't do it at all. She isn't a hero, she is a tragedy and someone who needs help and room to breathe. The scenes where they tried to make that funny, in my opinion didn't land at all. She doesn't need a hero complex she needs calmness and stable relationships. Let Isha live I swear to GOD.

in fact that leads me into the next point

5. Have Vi realize she doesn't want to be an enforcerer sooner? I actually do like how rushed that part felt don't get me wrong, but if they wanted a reunion between Jinx and Vi don't randomly put it into act 2 with barely any build up. Let Jinx and Vi realize it during the fight, they kinda did do that but??? just didn't move that anywhere. it's so strange. If they had cut the Smeech stuff they could've easily used the third episode to make Jinx and Vi slowly reconcile. Which also means I think Vi would've been such a better "symbol" than Jinx. Vi and Jinx, for me, show what Zaun is made of, and Jinx is quite literally the valid pain, distrust and anger of Zaun, and she as well as Zaun desperately need healing. Like that would've been SO COOL. that's just my opinion though, so there is that.

6. If they had made Vi the symbol the conflict between Caitlyn and Vi would've felt a lot more natural as well. Like??? Also Caitlyn should've had so much more time if they wanted that switch up in the end to work. Cut the black rose stuff and that would've worked perfectly fine.

7. Now do NOT get me wrong, Ambessa's character is so interesting and I feel like exploring her is so cool but she and her plot just doesn't fit into the Piltover/Zaun thing. It makes it too big for what the show is. In fact I (and now this is just my opinion, anyone can have their own just saying lmao) would've either cut out Ambessa's character/plotline or subtly continued Ambessas drama with Mel, which would give Mel, who didn't get taken by the black rose in my version, a lot more to do and way more interesting stuff too. Again this is very much my opinion and doesn't mean anyone needs to share it, but I feel like they could've easily made Heimerdinger be the one who gets Caitlyn to where she was/is with Ambessa. It would've expanded Heimerdingers character and it would've stayed in the setting they already perfectly build up, Piltover and Zaun. Also, Heimerdinger wouldn't just feel like a random joke character anymore.

8. The Pit fight stuff could have been SO interesting and I feel had we not stayed with Viktor Christ so much which was also so weird at times, we could've gotten so much necessary insight on Vi. If we follow my idea it could've been Vi forced to be a symbol because of the person she is. The embodiment of Zauns loyalty, strength and resilience. And then the fights that will come out of that forcing Vi to face so much stuff she shouldn't etc etc (I haven't fleshed that one out yet don't come for me) and that could've ended in her pit fighting era, which should've taken at LEAST an episode and not a random montage that just gets forgotten??? for no reason at all. Really hope act 3 talks about that cause??? I feel with Vi as the leader the healing of Zaun would make so much sense, because Jinx realistically can't do that. The idea of Jinx being in that position IS interesting I just feel it wasn't established/developed enough.

9. I really really liked how from the very beginning Viktor's safe haven did not in fact feel safe. There was always a very uneasy feeling and that's what I love about the show. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop and it happened, that was amazing. Though I would've either established a lot of this way earlier on in the show or made it not so, and now walk with me here Ik its magic, unrealistic. That does sound strange but having Viktor suddenly float in space with white silver flowing hair and his dead assistent next to him was... very very out of no where. It was like a lazy show trying to get away with "yeah well it's magic so of course this works" and I hate that because even magic needs explanation and build up. So yeah. Either cut that shit out or have it established sooner. And while seeing the one person who helped Jayce as a kid did kind of help, it still wasn't enough for THIS, though again MY OPINION. Also we spent way too much time there, it was getting ridiculous. So much time could've easily been lent to stuff that actually needed it. I actually laughed out loud when Viktor started the healing process with Vander because come ON now, and I do not think they wanted me to laugh.

10. The stuff with Vander, Silco and Felicia (while cute) was unnecessary and weird. What I liked the most about Vander taking in Vi and Powder was the feeling that he didn't do it because he necessarily knew them very well but because he knew their mom was dead (that did show he and their mother did kind of know each other but so do like all the people in the lanes that is kind of established) and wanted to PROTECT. This new context sadly makes it feel like "well of course he stopped everything and took them with them and cared for them he knew them since birth, duh" when I always wanted to feel "well Vander is in his heart a good man who saw what terrible stuff this war and fighting did and then took in orphaned children because of course he would do that" if that makes sense? I feel this new thing took away so much from Vander, but again that's maybe just me.

11. So many jokes and scenes didn't land with me. The scene with Jinx trying to show Sevika her middle finger was SO GOOD and so Arcane that seeing the scene were they try to make it funny with Jinx's trousers and that enforcerer felt so out of place? Like what. That scene could have EASILY been cut and nothing would have changed at all. And that's what is the worst because there isn't one scene in season 1 that I feel could've been cut and there are so many of them in season 2.

12. Introducing Maddie in act 1 made me believe she'd be a bigger, even more of a threat to Zaun, character than she was and that's so sad. What I loved about season 1 is that every single character mattered. Even those we saw maybe once. This time around I hardly cared at all for any new character because they didn't feel like a Person anymore, they just felt like Plot. In season 1 episode 1 there is this scene, the first scene Vander gets to speak in. The only reason Huck meets the woman and the man to trait was basically so we get to know how the undercity works and establish Vander as basically its leader and protecter; The one people are loyal to etc. But it doesn't feel that way. It's something that naturally happens and every character in that scene, even the man and the woman we never see again, mattered and felt real.

yeah so those were really just my thoughts. I could very much go on but I also don't want to.

[vi-as-in-violet]

i think the main feeling i have about this season so far is that i crave to see MORE, but not in a good way. i love the themes this season is working with, i love the conflicts, i love the characters but it feels like i don't see enough of the story playing out and it leaves me feeling like something is missing.

I wanted to SEE and experience the underground resistance growing, i wanted to actually see how Jinx became a symbol and how that united the underground. I wanted to see the process of it and how it affected her! I feel like the writers really should've gone with the traditional show-don't-tell rule here instead of just showing us the aftermath which left me with exactly zero emotions about such crazy impressive and important events. The entire Underground got united (!!!!) but we saw zero of the unification process and got like two scenes before they were all arrested, released and then the entire revolution idea was completely forgotten and not addressed once in the rest of the act (as far as I recall).

Jinx was clearly struggling with the newfound worship, so much so she went into HIDING. how must've she felt knowing that so many people find hope in her when she sees herself as a literal jinx? how did she deal with becoming people's hope instead of their curse? I wanted to see her work through this so bad since that is what Arcane has always been good at, it's what season one did so well - it walked you through the emotions and motives and therefore, the conclusion to personal plot lines felt SATISFYING and left massive impression. this was completely missing for me this act for most plot lines

Same goes for pitfighter!Vi and her descent into self-destructive hell. We don't get to see the emotional fall out of her being fucking punched and left lying on the ground by the only person she thought she had left - we just got a montage showing the aftermath of her spiraling. which is cool but it left me with feeling pretty much nothing about it all because seeing the conclusion to her struggling without the build-up just fell flat for me. i was looking forward this specific internal conflict of the protector archetype with nothing left to protect and therefore completely losing themselves before finding their purpose again SO much and it ended up being completely brushed over. i wanted to be able to pick Vi's thoughts apart when she was at her lowest point in life since her time in the jail and see how her behaviour and relationship with people/alcohol/violence changes in the process. like later in act 2 when she punches Isha, she doesn't even react (holy shit?). that is SO far from the Vi we saw in act 1 of this season and it feels super out of character because we did not actually get to SEE her behaviour and priorities changing - we can obviously figure out the reason and understand why she ended up this way but since we weren't actually shown how it happened, it still initially felt like it came out of nowhere and majorly ooc for the character we've known so far

and don't even let me start with Cait and her dictator arc. I was getting ready for the emotional fall out and internal conflict and the political powerplay with Embessa but we got SO LITTLE of it. i could go on and on about this but i feel like a lot of people might agree her dictator arc was pretty underdeveloped so I am not going to discuss it further (plus the immediate switch when she met Vi again was just ??? because we can't really see how she feels about this entire thing with the exception of her thinking Embessa is too brutal and that it seems to be weighting on her. PLUS she has at least a situationship with that sunshine enforcer and even tho she is clearly mentally elsewhere, we have no reason to think she is still pinning after Vi?).

I'm not even going to address Jayce because What.

On a positive note, I think Victor's arc has been handled pretty damn well. But aside from that, this season just leaves me craving more and it is quite clear to me the writers absolutely did not have enough time (nine episodes is not a lot) to develop the story they wanted to portray in full.

Now, I watched the latest three episodes while on a plane and since the act is so plot heavy, i might have totally missed or misunderstood something, lemme know if that is the case

i am super interested in how's everyone feeling about this so feel free to add your thoughts!!!

[tinseltrinkets]

The ending of Arcane did have its imperfections, but I don’t think all of them are unintentional. Yes, some of it I’d say are flaws in the writing, but in terms of there being some lack of closure and the issues regarding Piltover’s oppression of Zaun not being fully resolved, Caitlyn and Vi not communicating fully, it feels fitting.

Caitlyn asks Vi if she’s still in the fight because she’s right, the fight isn’t over. Humanity is a cycle of violence and peace, it’s inescapable, but any moment that you can deliver even the smallest amount of solace within those is cosmically significant and it is always worth it.

Even between each other, Caitlyn and Vi still have a lot to work through. Communication is key in relationships, but they have the base understanding that they love each other, and that matters.

And even with Sevika as a councilor, there’s still so much to be done in terms of reparations and truly understanding the consequences of their bigotry and oppressive regime. Jinx understands this, but it’s no longer her place to be the symbol of resistance, and it never was. She takes to the skies and leaves the cities to a rocky resolution that she doesn’t need to be apart of anymore.

(Maybe I’m biased because I’m a Jayce and Viktor stan and I’m very happy for them but I do want all the characters to be happy and equally so. I’m also hoping Ekko’s still in touch with Vi and the firelights and that Mel finds peace too)

[rnadett]

There is one thing I noticed in the teaser.

So, the correct order for these scenes will be:

This

Then this

Based on the wound on Caitlyn's lips, it is very fresh and almost bleeding in the first picture. In the second, it is still fresh but less inflamed. This means she most likely encounters and tries to end Jinx more than once, and she will definitely fail the first time.

Based on how broken and angry she looks on the second Image, I'm also guessing that this scene

Is also before the first two.

I don't want drama between my girls, but I think the teaser only showed a couple of the first episodes, which could mean that Vi will leave not after Jinx kills the council, but after she becomes an enforcer (and quit from that too), which breaks Caitlyn again like their breakup in the rain.

I hope I'm not right.

What do you think?

[aphwaph]

have some incorrect quotes I made while I die from act 2

[aviyx]

Discussing Caitlyn Kiramman

Caitlyn, especially in the second season, reminds me of Macbeth in all the worst and most concerning ways.

At the start of Macbeth, Macdonwald is a character who had committed treason and was killed by Macbeth, as at that point he still had his morality.

This is similar to how at the start of Arcane, Caitlyn was an enforcer who did her job, and did it well without engaging in any of the corruption that seemed pretty rampant at this point.

Later, Macbeth's wife Lady Macbeth, in a self serving manner, manipulates Macbeth into committing regicide by killing the king. He's obviously hesitant to do this as it goes against his morals, but with the encouragement, he does go through with it on his own accord. Despite having the power of being the Thane of Cawdor and Glamis, he still does this in attempt to get more power. After this, he successfully becomes king.

Now, I don't think Caitlyn is acting how she is in attempt of power, however thats definitely one of the outcomes of her actions. Ambessa, who is who I see in Lady Macbeth's role in this analogy, is also manipulating Caitlyn in order to gain personally, and to encourage war so that hextech weapons are made and she can use them to fight her own battles. Caitlyn has a moral code, yet despite this she does do bad things. She uses the grey as a tool to clear out the streets, when that is a literal war crime. She knows this is wrong, emphasised by her mothers words that go starkly against her actions playing right before the scene. She also takes the position of power Ambessa presents her with despite her in earlier episodes likely being against Ambessa's whole cause, and the war that she's about to start.

Macbeth, before this, has a friend called Banquo, who suspects that he killed Duncan for the throne and power. Macbeth then gets him assassinated.

This is, albeit less so, reminiscent of Vi, and how after being called out on her actions, Caitlyn hits her and leaves.

Considering we only have 3 episodes of season 2, I cant be sure whether this continues progressing, but if it does, there are a few things I am assuming will happen in arc 2 and 3.

I think Caitlyn is going to start hallucinating more. The hallucinations might be of Vi, as Macbeth hallucinates seeing Banquo after causing his death, but they could also be of her mother, Jinx or even Isha, as she could've easily killed either of them had Vi not stopped her.

Now if you have read Macbeth, you'll realize i haven't mentioned one of the main reasons Macbeth turns into a usurper. The witches and their prophecy. And this is honestly because I'm not sure.

I think its entirely possible that the witches could be symbolised through the hextech, as we know the hextech weapons act up sometimes, as shown in episode 3. Its possible they may lead to hallucinations, similar to that of Victor, if they're used repeatedly while acting up, which I can imagine Caitlyn doing.

Otherwise, I think the witches could be symbolised through Jinx, and possibly Sevika and Isha to maintain the symbolism of threes. This is because the 3 of them represent the power Caitlyn wishes she has- the power to avenge her mother.

Either way, I'm hoping that Caitlyn doesn't stay on this path, as Macbeth is a tragedy for a reason.

[something-awful1]

hot takes all around, don't get me wrong, but the conflict between "jinx fans" and "caitlyn/vi fans" is actually insane. like guys, we're all fans of the same show, stop gatekeeping your favorite characters and stop starting wars over what should be a mature, nuanced discussion

[theoddest1]

Okay so, ima type in what I typed to my friend here.

"Yeah Ima be so dead ass. ||Mel and Ekko carried the final for me, ESPECIALLY Ekko."

Yeah, they should have just kept [Viktor] being Ryze. That made more sense to me than whatever this is. And I am all for mlm rep, but yeah, this felt WAY too, Jayvikky. I liked it better that they were brothers to parallel Vander and Silco, who also found each other and became bros, but it seemed like they went with how popular JayVik was and stuck with it. And Jayce being strung with Viktor for wherever they went felt...kinda nonsensical. I'd rather that Viktor was thwarted and too far gone to then just suddenly have a change of heart and go with Jayce. I imagined that he would have a contingency where he, incase his body was destroyed, would then later rise again to try and enact "Glorious Evolution". It would go well with the themes of his beliefs anyway because every time he dies, he comes back stronger in a new body. I feel like that would better set the ongoing conflict and fit well with the game and why he looks the way he does currently.

I also don't like how quick he and Mel's reunion was considering how much he favored her along with his odd and sudden dislike for her decisions-- Seriously, where did that even come from!?"

[Thought it over further. Him calling her out on her actions isn't the issue. It's the timing and how this transpires that confuses me. He just came from a post-apocalyptic world where Mel, Viktor, and everything else came to mind. The lack of time for them to truly talk made the scene felt out of nowhere and not at all fleshed out. He goes on to place part of the blame on her when literally it wasn't. She DID manipulate but only politically. Everything else was on he and Viktor. Then, when he DOES confront Viktor, the vibes are different. Viktor hurt and caused a chain of events that led to several lives being taken to ensure survival and his "Glorious Evolution", why is this essentially overlooked? Maybe when I review this again, it will make more sense, but as of now, the way Jayce treats both Mel and Viktor is VERY questionable.]

"I would have been pretty happy if He at least gave her a hug, a kiss, something to make their relationship seem consistent with what we were shown. I know that he's been gone for a while and a lot more cold, but this was a very odd direction to go with. I am super happy about Cait and Mel fighting side by side and that Mel may be the main character for a new Noxus related show! [Which I knew they'd set up!] but this series, after seeing it in its entirety, DID suffer too much from the pacing issues. I assumed at the First Act that it was quick paced to go with how they've all been shifted into places they didn't see coming, but the pacing issues continued to bring down the quality. 3 seasons would have made way more sense and would go well with the 3 ACT formula they had used. I hope they learn from this and refrain from making similar mistakes.

[I responded to my friend who posted these images above] I knew they'd make a callback to this line eventually, and I am genuinely surprised people are not catching this obvious set up to Jinx living. Also, I am betting that Heimer did "die" but only that alternate version of himself. [Though obviously I could be wrong, though a life of various lifetimes where he helps each version of the main cast sounds very Heimerdinger of him, especially since he didn't wanna leave.]

The biggest letdown for me has to be Jayce and Viktor's story. It just...doesn't make sense with what we have been shown. Also, if Viktor KNOWS bad shit would happen when bringing Hextech to life and all, why TF would he give it to Jayce then???? Or if he STILL wanted magic to be tampered with shy doesn't he comvince himself in a way HE KNOWS would prevent what happens next, surely NOT EVERY timeline has it where you continue on the path of destruction! You see what I mean!?!? Leave the time crap to Ekko, man. This new inclusion makes no sense! And he does this in VARIOUS timeliness for some reason. Man, I wish it was just a random ass mage or Ryze, this added stuff kinda kills the finale for me🫠

I feel that making Viktor time travel ruins a huge aspect of the story, ngl, especially when Jayce argues that people can "craft their own path." The story also shouldn't have ended with what I could only assume both of them "dying" or traversing time instead. Also, the way Sky was treated and essentially replaced with Jayce feels....very very weeeeird."

[I believe that the ending just didn't land that well. I feel, now thinking over every character, Ekko, Mel, and Jinx carried this season HEAVY. These 3 were the most interesting parts of the season, honorable mention being Singed cause he be doing what he MUST. Also, what was the point of introducing Loris if all he was gonna end up being was a random guy who reminded Vi of Vander? I guess nothing is wrong with this, but when you're already stringing for time, these inclusions make no sense... I liked him, though, RIP Loris🤧. Oh, and Caut barely facing consequences is KINDA CRAZY but it goes with the themes of forgiveness/ acceptance. The Cycle would never end, after all, but yeah Vi and Cait made up WAY too fast and just shows that this needed another season. Let me know your thoughts!]

[yes-these-obsessions-are-healthy]

Just hit me that Episode 1, a big seed of insecurity is planted in Powder when she overhears Mylo and Vi arguing about her, but she leaves before Vi stands up for her, and then in Episode 9 she overhears Silco musing about how he has his dream in his hands and all he needs to do is give up Jinx. It cuts away before we see anything happen next but it can be surmised that she knocked him out before he was made aware of her presence.

At her most tenuous and uncertain of who she was—awkward Powder, frenetic Jinx— Fate decided to have her stumble upon important conversations had by those she loved about her worth and value as a person, and understandably she fled before she could hear the final verdict.

In Episode 1, she ran from the door with the impression that her sister thought she would never be strong enough, never be good enough, and any conversation to the contrary were just lies that family tells you to make you feel better. In Episode 9, she knocked out Silco before he could monologue his decision (lol) because she has been this man’s shadow for 6 years. She knows that he values utility, ruthlessness, and his dream of a free Zaun at all costs. No matter how fond he was of her, how gentle or patient or allowing, it all culminated into her being the powerhouse that would land him Zaun, and now he has it, so what good is she now? By all metrics that she herself has witnessed of him, all signs point toward him favoring giving her up.

It’s a mixture of Jinx’s own insecure attachment and Silco’s almost pathological refusal to not define their relationship as her being an exception to his personal policy of cutthroat zig-zagged loyalty that led to Jinx jumping to very logical conclusion that he would give her up to Piltover. Because he delayed having that very important internal conversation with himself about how important she was to him, he had to have that debate right at the finish line instead of, I don’t know, at Singed’s operating table when he was in danger of losing her?? Life comes at you fast and you don’t have time to sort out your feelings, I suppose. The show is very much a whirlwind of everything happening at once, but moving on…

But it also makes sense, because Silco’s love for Jinx is hinted at having snuck up on him without him fully noticing. He thought he was in control of his fondness for her. He must have thought it was an understandable and unavoidable side effect to raising a protegè that you genuinely respect for her cleverness and usefulness. But he grew to genuinely love her in his unfulfilling, disparate way. It filled some holes, and left others bare. The question of unconditional support and love was broken with Vi, and Silco by his nature, his behavior, his endeavors ensured that Jinx grew up in an environment where social darwinism reigned supreme and that faltering or failing rendered you lesser in Silco’s eyes. Silco never outright said it to her. We never see him denigrate or threaten her, but kids don’t need to be told anything to get the general feel of “how things are”. The general air around Silco was one that encouraged her penchant for gadgets and engineering, but left her suspended in a limbo where she felt compelled to be strong, be the best, be perfect, otherwise he would look elsewhere. He would drop her, because the strong eat the weak and he only values her because she is uniquely strong. A gem in his collection, almost. It’s a girl whose abandonment issues have her seesawing back and forth between cavalier “I don’t caaaaare, I’m irreplaceable and you know it” and “Please don’t drop me, I’m strong, I’m good, I can do this, I can, I can, I swear I can” which, in Episode 9 culminated in her Shimmer psychosis as “How dare you. After everything I’ve done, after everything you’ve lectured me about Topside, you want to give me to them? Who do you think you are? I made you. I’m this broken fizzing-wire thing whose sister gave me up for a Topsider, I killed my childhood best friend with a bomb, and now you want to throw me away for your shiny dream city? You think you can throw me away like trash, don’t you dare look away, don’t you DARE THROW ME AWAY”

Like GIRL. I usually hate the “left before they heard the context of someone’s seemingly damning conversation” but it works here because it aggravated therapy-needed Powder/Jinx’s insecurities.

[machineheraldbabe]

my arcane hot takes/predictions

i believe all of these things but! it's all in good fun. there isn't a character i genuinely dislike; every one serves their purpose, their motivations are fully realized, and every dilemma they endure/represent is morally complex and super fascinating!!

i love reading/talking about this show :)

If we had to nominate a single character as the show's villain in s1 (rather than the enforcers as a unit, or silco's shimmer operation, etc.), it would be marcus. if he hadn't taken silco's blood money, none of this would have happened.

jayce is "worse" than viktor in season 1 morally; "worse" comes with a lot of weight, ofc. i think season 1 follows jayce's story especially closely, from starry-eyed genius, to political initiate, to chess-master-in-training. the narrative indulges and displays his darkest traits and contrasts his narrative of moral emptiness with viktor's story of lonesome self-sacrifice. this is why i think it's VERY interesting that jayce allows viktor to break the news about his deal with silco for an independent undercity.

BUT! viktor will completely flip this dynamic next season, and viktor fans like myself will find ourselves in jayce's shoes! i can't wait for this!

relatedly, i am eager for a complete villain arc for viktor. it's mostly agreed upon that his story is incredibly sympathetic, but i'm hoping that the writers push him a few steps too far. i don't want to be comfortable - i want to watch a true degradation of morals to complicate what it means to redeem or condemn someone with such a tragic past. it'll blend very nicely with our initial impressions of vi's s2 story.

jinx is the main character of arcane and i love that for her.

vi's alleged enforcer arc makes Perfect sense, especially when contrasted with her dialogue with vander in act 1: "i grew up thinking that i am less than them." she can't be less than them if she's one of them.

mel hates viktor and was worried that jayce prioritized his relationship with viktor too highly. this comes from the scene where jayce confides in her that viktor is dying and her first remark is: "i didn't know you were so close." not long after, she silently belittles viktor when convincing jayce that the hextech weapons are a necessity by looking down upon him and refusing to consult him. i also want to be So Clear that i adore her character and that this is NOT a criticism; both scenes are phenomenal and are integral into their tripartite dynamic.

caitlyn was way out of pocket for her aggression in ep 9 and it definitely revealed her character's darkest tendencies that i think we'll see more of in s2.

viktor will be the sleeper-agent for s2. i know i'm projecting here but think about it - even visually, he has his own shade of purple amidst shimmer's fuchsia and hextech's blue. much like how powder's stealing was the initial conflict in s1, i think viktor has the same catalyst potential.

the worst things s2 could do are a) killing off a champion too early (save the deaths for ep8/9!) and b) giving viktor a love interest.

[srslylini]

"our healing can only begin once she's been brought to justice"

is such an interesting statement to be made by a council member.

They never gave Zaun the chance to heal. The wounds the undercity gathered, the wounds Piltover is responsible for were left to rot and once it all inevitably falls down again, as it always does

well the only reasonable action is to blame that ONE person, right?

and the good thing about this is, that this has happened in season 1 as well (consistency, bites lip). Right when they had just wanted one responsible person for the explosion in Jayces apartment. They didn't care who, didn't even care if they were actually responsible and nothing has changed at all. All they want is to make an example and make themselves feel better; in other words let themselves "heal" the wounds they caused themselves. It didn't matter what happened to said person, what the reason was or what could be done for change-

the wounds are stapled closed messily without every looking at what they would actually need, nourishment and care, like Jinx did to her own leg and when they eventually rip apart again they take one person to blame again.

something something cycle something something