#the finale discourse

[sunnibits]

heyyyy so like. could we maybe make a tag or something for the people who are super genuinely upset about the finale. like #ofmd negativity or something. bc shit I’m upset too but I don’t think I’m necessarily upset in the same way you guys are and reading 1 million posts just shitting on the show isn’t really making me feel better 😭

[peachviz]

ok TikTok may not think unification confirmed spirk but I keep seeing old insecure bigoted men on Facebook angrily calling the short brokeback mountain so that right there is solid confirmation of spirk

[nortism]

Talking to people outside your fandom about your media of choice is always so interesting because after a while in fandom, you get used to the same old discourse but in real life you will be hit with some completely orginal and insane takes. I was taking about Les Misérables to some family friends over Christmas and they tried to argue that Javert was a completely unnecessary part of the plot. Like he didn’t need to be there at all. Truly a level of discourse that some of you on tumblr could only dream of coming up with

[stolenkissesdiaz]

showing ppl this whenever anyone asks about ‘the gay firefighters’ like here *shoves phone in ur face* get to know them separately and together *makes sure to not tell u the Horrors that are part of the package*

[the-moogs]

i think in part 3 they should make a world where these two are confirmed gfs

[styxhuntress]

The way Buck is treated is absolutely heartbreaking.

On the surface yes, maybe the 118 does look like a found family unit. And most of them have a good family bond with one another. But not with Buck. (Long rant below the cut)

Buck has the biggest heart out of anyone on the show. He is constantly going out of his way to help people. This is particularly prominent with Eddie, but he does this for so many characters.

He lets Hen, Eddie and Chim stay with him during the lockdown, never asks them to help pay rent, and then later lets Albert stay with him with no complaint.

He is constantly babysitting Chris and later Jee while their respective parents go do other things, and while he clearly loves spending time with them this is definitely a massive favor on his part because babysitting kids is hard work.

He is always there to support them when they need it.

He’s the one that prompts them to check on Bobby in season 1.

He is there for Chim as best he can when Maddie leaves.

When Maddie shows up at his apartment in Season 2 he doesn’t get angry with her for essentially breaking into his home and helping herself to a bottle of wine. And instead helps her settle down with a safe new job and becomes her shoulder to cry on during this period.

He drops everything when Eddie asks for his help, when Eddie mentions issues with childcare and paperwork for Chris Buck introduces him to Carla.

When Eddie has to bring Chris to the station Buck calls ahead so Bobby can get permission.

When Eddie gets shot Buck takes over Chris’s care without prompting.

When Eddie has issues with parenting Chris he calls Buck for help and Buck helps.

When Eddie has a meltdown and takes a bat to the wall, not only does Buck drop everything and run to help him, he also goes further by taking eddie to see the kid they saved the day he was shot.

Whenever Eddie needed anything Buck was there.

When Eddie desperately needed a sub letter so that he could move Buck went and took over the lease.

When he found out Eddie was moving he went and did what he could to help him despite being devastated.

Whenever anyone needed anything, Buck was there. And Buck was always happy to do it.

But when Buck was feeling abandoned after the embolism no one reached out, instead Eddie dumped Chris on him under the pretense of getting him out and about and stop moping for the day.

When Maddie left, no one thought to ask Buck how he was doing. Instead they focused entirely on Chim. And when Chim punched Buck no one at any point stood up for Buck, instead going on about how Chim is under a lot of distress right now as though Buck isn’t also feeling the loss and worry of his Sister up and leaving.

When Buck filed the lawsuit they almost all immediately went and put all the blame on Buck. Hen was the only one to point out that they were all Buck had, that he had no other family outside the 118. Despite that they still punished him, Eddie taking his anger out on Buck because the lawsuit meant Buck couldn’t bail him out and he couldn’t spend time with Chris and never once saying he missed Buck too. He was pissed because Buck couldn’t drop everything and help him. He was accused of being reckless and impulsive and using their own issues for his own gain and for being selfish and stupid and exhausting despite the fact that he was being treated unfairly. He was hurt, and alone and just needed a hug.

When Buck found out about Daniel and distanced himself from Maddie, Chimney started borderline harassing Buck trying to get him to talk to her, despite a) Buck having had a major bombshell dropped on him, getting his entire life put into a new perspective based on this information, and finding out why his parents treated him the way they did and so needing to process, and B) Buck repeatedly setting boundaries and saying he needed space to process and he’d talk to Maddie when he was ready. Chimney completely ignores Buck’s boundaries as though what Buck needs or wants doesn’t matter because Maddie is upset and wants to talk to him, and only her desires and emotional well being have any level of importance and despite asking for space she literally ambushes him at work to force a conversation he is not ready for. And no one else tries telling Chim to leave Buck alone, and then Eddie only has a half assed conversation with Buck despite being his so called best friend, where he basically dismisses Buck’s feelings and tells him he’s over reacting.

When Eddie was leaving and Buck was upset he was repeatedly accused of making it about himself, being selfish, unreasonable, unsupportive and a jerk when he literally just found out from nowhere that Eddie made a down payment just overheard his best friend basically dismiss their friendship (“I have no ties here, everything that matters is in Texas”) he gets judged and berated for being upset, as though he’s not allowed to have feelings, and when he tries to apologize for his snarkiness gets once again berated and when he finally tells Eddie that he took over the lease and thus he can move, aka the ultimate supportive action, not once does Eddie apologize.

When Buck breaks up with Tommy no one bothers to really check in with him on a deeper level, instead they dismiss his wants by stealing his phone so that he can’t call him and then no one brings it up again despite him clearly still being devastated for every following episode.

When Buck gets SA’d by the therapist he is immediately getting made fun of, and accused of being a manwhore and essentially blamed for being assaulted. No one ever, not once, bothers to wonder if he’s doing alright.

And when Buck is still waiting for Abby to come back rather than being supportive or anything like that he gets laughed at for living in his girlfriend’s apartment and being dumb enough to think she’ll come back.

When Eddie gets a new friend he immediately starts spending all his free time with that friend and never inviting Buck, even if they were planning something Buck would enjoy, instead asking if Buck can babysit (his kid is 14/15 at this point and just because he has CP I still think he can spend a couple of hours home alone. He’s not bedridden or anything.) and basically ignoring his supposed best friend in favor of his shiny new friend.

Whenever Buck needed anything he was laughed at, belittled and dismissed. They constantly take advantage of his kindness. Buck gives and gives and gives to them and gets nothing back. He is only wanted when he can be useful and when they need him. They take and take and take and the second Buck needs even a small amount of empathy or help he gets accused of being selfish, needy, exhausting, of making everything about him, of overreacting. He is essentially told, over and over that he is not allowed to have feelings or boundaries. He is not allowed to need help he can only give help. He is only valued when he can do something for someone else and godforbid he ever ask for the same consideration because otherwise he’s being needy. He makes everyone else his priority and never is he anyone’s priority in return.

Until Tommy anyway, he finally had someone who would take care of him, who acknowledged his feelings and showed him they were valid, who clearly adored all of Buck and never asked him for anything and indulged in his quirks and who was happy to be there for him, who complimented him and who overall clearly adored Buck. Even before they were dating when Tommy saw that Buck clearly was feeling left out he went over to his place to apologize, despite not actually doing anything wrong himself.

I seriously think that if Tommy saw how they all treated Buck he’d lose the delusion that they are basically a family really fast and promptly get pissed on Buck’s behalf. He’d also do everything in his power to help Buck realize that he matters as a person.

[todoggukie]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (2024) dev. Square Enix

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

actually can we stop talking about “deserve” when it comes to characters dying in fiction. not everything is a fable with a moral lesson to be learned. romeo and juliet didn’t “deserve” to die. bambi’s mom didn’t “deserve” to die. izzy dying in the finale doesn’t mean ofmd is saying that certain types of queer people “deserve” to die. fictional death can serve more narrative purposes than just punishment for the character doing the dying.

[kittleskittle]

"Myself on the other side is in love...over and over again, he and I meet..."

[sunnibits]

nah bc imagine they really do pull a lucius on us and bring back izzy for s2 and it turns out that was the plan all along and we just like. went through extreme depressions and discourse for nothing 💀

[idolomantises]

Sometimes I get messages about certain dialogue in my comics about how a character is being passive aggressive when I'm just writing them as straight forward and blunt.

idk, as an autistic person who's dealt with genuine harassment several times (including a few months ago) because his straight forward and blunt demeanor was misinterpreted as being "rude", "ungrateful" and "bitchy", its just kind of interesting seeing people interpret dialogue in a more hostile way.

it's not a complaint, i prefer those fictional interpretations over terminally online twitter users who need to be coddled over everything but it is kind of fascinating seeing how people interpret certain dialogue.

[luxurystark-jackson]

so wait. mark s saves gemma scout by locking her out into the stairwell. then takes one (1) moment of personal autonomy to run through the halls with helly r, with the knowledge that their fate still hangs in the balance. so mark s gives mark scout his wife back and still allows himself those few last minutes to die with the woman he loves. beautiful

[werewolf-cuddles]

Anyway, I'm just gonna fucking say it.

Typing a prompt into a box and letting an AI program generate an image for you does not make you an artist.

Typing a prompt into a box and letting an AI program generate a story for you does not make you a writer.

Typing a prompt into a box and letting an AI program generate a song for you does not make you a musician.

If the AI is doing 99% of the work for you, then you're not an artist.

[shadow-redferne]

Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things

(PT: Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things) (Trigger warning: This post discusses multiple sensitive topics, including abuse, bullying, bigotry and suicide. Reader discretion *heavily* advised)

I've finally gotten around to this post and I'll admit I can already smell the hostility. Just some disclaimers: This post isn't me commenting on the morality of certain media or ships, nor is it me commenting on whether or not fiction affects reality. This is only to talk about the damage this kind of discourse has done to fandom. I am going to warn you: This is *not* a post full of kindness. I am not going to be nice. This post is going to be a bit mean. No. Very mean. Sorry about that. So, TL;DR: Both sides have a harassment problem, and neither side wants to address the issues their communities have, leading to fandom becoming an unsafe environment. So uh, I don't think I need to write a witty introduction here. The current state of fandom is rancid. Harassment has become a giant fucking problem lately. So what's the problem? The problem lies in one thing: 'Proship' vs 'Antiship' discourse.

"Shadow, what the fuck do those words mean?" Proship used to mean that you supported all ships, all forms of fiction, and that you were against harassing anyone who was involved in fandom, as well as against censorship. 'Anti', or 'antiship', meant that you were against some forms of fiction and shipping, mainly ones involving minors or incest. Now you might've noticed that I used the phrase "used to" and the word "meant". That's because both terms kinda got new definitions and became buzzwords, with proship turning into a synonym for 'problematic shipper' (the term 'darkship' eventually came around to distinguish the two apart from my understanding, but uh...as you can see it hasn't helped much!). On top of that, people use the word 'proship' as a verb or type of content rather than an actual stance (ie. 'proshipping', 'proship content', 'proship artstyle', you get the idea). However that's not the main point here. Let's cut to the chase now; both sides fucking hate each other; we'll make that clear, with both sides throwing vile accusations towards one another. However, the more I looked into the swamp, the more distrust I gained for both sides. Something was bothering me, but what? I tried to do a survey; two of them in fact, to see which side was more hostile. Unfortunately, neither survey gave me a lot of useful results, considering I got very little responses from the anti side (So uh, thanks for nothing on that end guys. /nm). The written responses did give one common theme: Fandom has a problem. A problem with harassment, bullying, creeps and bigotry. The antis are particularly horrible when it comes to this. I'm going to start this off by saying that I actually used to consider myself an 'anti' due to my discomfort with noncon and incest. And unfortunately, I was pretty fucking hostile to others (although I never sent death threats, fuck anyone who does that shit). I eventually stopped associating with the 'anti' side when I saw how rampant the ableism was- more on that later. 'Antis' have caused severe harm to fandom, and I don't really understand how anyone can deny that. However, I am pretty fucking tired of everyone pretending that the 'proship' side is the good side. I know the 'proship' side isn't going to like hearing this, but it needs to be said: You guys are *just* as guilty as 'antis' when it comes to being toxic. And I'm not saying that because of the pro-incest stuff or the minor/adult pairings. I'm saying that many 'proshippers' are way too comfortable with being creepy towards others, and the community that claims to be 'anti-harassment'... isn't all that anti-harassment! Here are just some of the written responses I got from the survey:

Here's one alibi from an anonymous user who submitted to the @selfship-confession-box account (pls let me know if you dont want to be tagged)

Another anon that was submitted to the @proship-anti-discussion account

Lastly, here's some of the replies and reblogs to a post talking about an 'ex-proshipper' that left the community due to negative experiences (the OP of said post and the 'ex proshipper' in question did eventually apologize to each other, so I'll cut both of them some slack. I'm only showing the responses because holy fuck are they rancid).

So yeah. So much for the 'proship' community being "anti-harassment" and inclusive to SA and grooming survivors. Now, to the 'anti' side. I will say, the 'proshippers' got one thing right, and that's the fact that 'antis' very much fucking suck. And remember when I said that 'proshippers' were hypocrites? Well, 'antis' are also that. They talk so much about protecting "sa survivors" and how "proshippers are bigoted". But what do the written responses say about this?

and let's not forget *this*

I also want to bring up this comment about the term 'proship artstyle' that I thought was worth mentioning:

In other words... 'antis' aren't as great to hang around either! Now, there's one particular issue I really want to zero in on, and that's the rampant ableism from both sides. As one of the above written responses say, there is a huge problem of 'antis' and 'proshippers' misusing words like 'psychotic' and 'delusional'. The r-slur is also pretty rampant, I've noticed.

Still don't believe me? Okay. Here's a more recent example from an anonymous 'anti' I came across (ironically enough this came up when I searched "proship ableism". Also. fatphobia too? pick a struggle anon)

And that's not even getting into the amount of 'antis' who weaponize the saying "seek help" or "go to therapy". Now, let's go back to the terms supposed original meanings, particuarly the meaning for 'proshipper'. That term was supposed to mean that you were against censorship and harassing people for fiction and ships, and that you didn't judge people for liking certain ships. Meanwhile, 'antis' were supposedly about wanting to get rid of problematic media that could be harmful to minors and SA survivors. But it's time to be honest: Both sides have lost the plot. How am I supposed to believe either side is "anti-harassment" when neither side knows how to respect boundaries? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about SA survivors when you have both sides constantly speaking over said survivors and also harassing them? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about minors when there's been individuals on both sides, yes, including the so called "antis" that "care so much about protecting children uwu", that were outed as groomers? How am I supposed to believe either side is the good side when you have things like this happening:

The last thing I take issue with? The terms "proship" and "anti" as a whole, as well as every single similar term that's come out of this mess. While I do genuinely believe these terms were probably helpful in the past, it's clear that they're not doing any good whatsoever. Both terms have had their original meanings muddied and twisted to the point where they basically have no meaning at all, and the terms existing have created a massive "us vs them" mentality within fandom. There's also the issue of both sides forcing labels on others. I've seen posts that are all "if you believe x, congrats you're a proshipper!" or "if you believe y, you're an anti!". As well as anyone identifying as 'neutralship' (a label I also used to identify with before I stopped associating with these labels entirely) being called a "closet proshipper" or an "anti in disguise". Personally? If you have to force people to pick a side in order for you to trust them, I don't see why I should trust you. If you have to rely on labels like "proship", "anti", "anti-anti", "anti-harassment", "anti-censorship" to come across as a safe person or a good person, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to see you as a good person. You might be wondering why I included the "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" labels in that. Well, I'm going to be honest, and you are welcome to disagree with me on this, but I feel like these terms are so fucking unnecessary. Being "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" is the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM, a bare minimum that neither side can truly follow. Also, calling yourself "anti-harassment" doesn't automatically make me believe that. Especially when it's been proven time and time again that 'proshippers', the side believed to be 'anti-harassment', isn't all that 'anti-harassment' at all! Now I know what you're thinking at this point; you're thinking that I condone harassment because I'm going after both sides. You're thinking that I don't give a damn about the death threats that 'antis' have sent. No. No. No. That is not what I'm saying. And honestly, if *that's* the message you're getting, I don't know what to tell you.

So no, I'm not saying harassment is good or okay (and if that's the message you got from reading the above... I genuinely do not know what to tell you). I'm saying that you don't deserve a medal or a cookie for not sending death threats or being against people who send death threats, when it's literally the BARE MINIMUM. The bar is in fucking hell at this point. And as it's been shown, neither "proshippers" nor "antis" are truly anti-harassment. Me not liking 'proshippers' doesn't automatically mean I'm okay with sending them death threats, and me not liking 'antis' doesn't make me okay with abuse. And it sure as fucking hell doesn't mean that I don't care either. Because guess what? I do fucking care. It's why I'm fucking making this post in the first place. I shouldn't have to identify as "proship" or "anti" or any other labels to tell you that I care. Me refusing to use a label doesn't mean I'm apathetic to all the harm that's happened. And I sure as hell am not condoning harassment by refusing to hold hands with individuals who can't even bother to respect each other's boundaries. And honestly? If you interpret "I don't support proshippers *or* antis because they both made fandom toxic and unsafe" as "I condone sending death threats and rape threats", that's kind of on you. Here's a simple message I have for anyone who calls themselves "proship" or "antiship", and I am going to be especially mean here: Stop pretending to brand yourselves as the good guys when all you've done is break boundaries, talk over abuse survivors and marginalized groups. Stop being hypocrites, and actually address the issues within your goddamn communities. And stop downplaying said issues by saying "BUT THIS SIDE IS WORSE!" or "BUT THEY DO IT TOO!". Also, stop forcing people to use your dumb labels. Literally all of this could be fucking solved with using the block buttons or report buttons. There is no reason for this stupid fucking infighting. You don't have to like each other, fuck no, but quit dragging those who aren't involved into your messes and ruining fandom for everyone.

To "antis": Quit pretending to care about SA survivors and minors when you're the ones sending them death threats (And maybe address the fucking groomers within your community too, by the fucking way). To "proshippers": Stop being a dick to people who have had negative experiences with your community, stop ignoring the bigotry and stop letting in predators within your community. Now lastly, I know I said I wasn't going to comment on stances, but I do want to say this because it's also very much fucking bothering me. I hate how this discourse just boils down to either "Fiction DOESN'T affect reality at all, it's 100% okay to support ANY kind of media/ship/pairing no matter how problematic it is, and if you disagree with that you're a fascist!" or "Actually supporting ANY kind of media that's problematic and/or depicts so and so is BAD and if you support that you're a horrible human being! And if you disagree with me you're just as bad!" Have you guys perhaps, I don't know: Considered a fucking middle ground? Have you maybe considered nuanced discussions? How about that? Okay, I'm done being mean. In fact, I actually don't have much else to say so here's a video that talks about it a little more nicer than I do

*Sigh* I'm going to regret posting this, aren't I?

[ancanthus]

heard that they just started writing s9 of 9-1-1! in absolutely no relation to that, here's an itemized list of things i would loveeeeee to see fixed in 9-1-1 s9:

i 👏 want 👏 bobby 👏 nash 👏 back

buddie canon early in 9a

madney pregnancy retcon. that baby was not born yet and sure as hell is not named "robert"

bobby nash

more of the henren adoption arc!! can't believe they cut that off so soon!!

chris and eddie getting to properly finish out the texas arc

not plot related, but better schedules for the cast and crew. wdym they're writing and filming the episodes a week before they air. what kind of schedule is that????

more maddie and eddie bonding pleaseeeeee. something, anything!

ravi main s9!!!!!!

bobby nash

thank you for coming to my TED talk!!

[lemurmate]

so I wanted to articulate my thoughts with the whole system accountability thing and why headmate accountability works better for my system personally, but I'm experiencing art block so I'm bringing back 2011 to make a pmd sprite comic