#911 discourse

[leandra-kinard]

Re Iraq or Afghanistan: he was already with the 118 in 2005, so if we were to try and make sense of the MESS of a timeline (that every timeline in 911 is because the writers just don't care to keep things coherent, grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!) he must have already been kicked out/been very lucky to be honorably released for 'health reasons' before '05, so essentially after a very short time of service.

Aside from that, political landscape wise, yes, all of that.

I'm 3 years older and live in Germany; in Western Europe things were a tiny bit more progressive in the 90s already. Gay marriage was legalized in the Netherlands in 2001, for example, but Civil Partnerships had been legal in Denmark since 1989 as the first country in the world to legalize them.

Still, I grew up with a similar mindset in the world around me throughout the 80s and early 90s regarding the AIDS crisis; when the first gay character was included in a highly popular weekly soap opera in 1985 (first kiss in '87) it sparked outrage among many viewers. The German word for gay, same as in English, was used to make fun of or insult people and things until well into the 2000s.

The early 2000s were when things started to noticeably shift. The then mayor of Berlin publicly came out by saying "I am gay, and that's perfectly fine" ("Ich bin schwul, und das ist auch gut so!") which was largely well-received because it was delivered with such a no-fuss attitude. People looked to other countries around us and how things progressed there. HIV had become manageable and education on it had been good throughout the 90s so that it removed some of the stigma (but far from all).

IF we were to look to a piece of cinematic media as a groundbreaker, I definitely would NOT cite Glee either. I would cite Brokeback Mountain. While still falling into the then common trope of gay suffering and tragedy, the film received a lot of media coverage and praise by both critics and cinema-goers. The tragic fate of those two men sparked conversation about how bad things were, especially in rural, conservative areas around the world. Straight men were 'bullied' into seeing the film with their wives and girlfriends and ended up crying. Pretty much every newspaper, magazine, TV program around news or entertainment covered BBM on a nearly daily basis. This movie did change things in terms of public discourse, and it raised more empathy in people who previously didn't think twice about 'them gays'.

Glee first aired 4 years after Brokeback Mountain had come out, and it was mainly consumed by teens and young adults (i.e. young Millennials and Gen-Z'ers) who had already matured and likely figured out their sexuality or were in the process of figuring it out in a world that was a little more welcoming to queerness than older Millennials and previous generations experienced.

But Glee also was far from the only and first show that featured queer characters. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was pretty groundbreaking in that regard (despite the, again, tragic ending of Willow and Tara's love story). Queer as Folk was big in the early 2000s, though niche and mainly marketed to gay men, but it was there, followed by The L Word.

Glee only came when it started to become comfortable to depict queer characters on TV, when it was a niche studios and creators embraced rather than creatives having to fight tooth and nail for some rep (even though that still is the case in many instances today when a show is 'too straight', i.e. made for a more mature/more conservative audience).

So yeah, this was a cheap ego-stroke and such a simplification of vast socio-political circumstances that contributed to the slow improvement of gay rights and acceptance.

i do think “tommy was a legal adult when it became legal for gay people to have sex in the privacy of their own homes in all fifty states via supreme court decision which can be over turned at any time” would have been a better benchmark for the josh speech than glee but what do i know i’m just a person who isn’t interested in sucking ryan murphy’s dick

[gaytommykinard]

no i think bryan safi is owed compensation for what they did to josh russo in 8x06. TBQH. the only queer man on your whole cast and you give him that autofellatio of a speech. for shame.

[obitez]

So I've seen people saying things along the lines of 'Why are people still writing Buck/Tommy fics? They broke up like two months ago,' and I'm just like...

I also write fanfiction for a book series that was last updated in the 60's (before my parents were even born!) so who cares about them 'breaking up two months ago'?

[nqueso-emergency]

Well damn, they're just out here now admitting what we already knew months ago.

Buddie or Bust

This is why we'll never see eye to eye. Not only is this such a disgusting way to think it also confirms that you only hate Tommy because he's NOT Eddie.

[bekolxeram]

That was 2011. I rest my case.

Let's talk about the 21st century and queer rights

Sometimes I see a post and wonder what kind of world people live in, how ignorant and hateful they are of the community they claim to be part of, and even the most recent history of that community.

I saw this post with this line in it: "Its the 21th century, are we still suppose to justify people who lie at their partners in order to protect their reputation?" And I'm not reblogging because I don't want to have it on my blog.

So, let's talk about the 21st century and queer rights in the US, shall we, @queershits?

Did you know that same-sex marriage in the US as a whole has only been legal since the Supreme Court decision on Obergefell v. Hodges on June 26, 2015? Prior to that, the first state to grant same-sex marriage was Massachusetts in 2004, while the first civil unions for gay and lesbian couples became legal in 2000. But at the same time, 28 states had banned same-sex marriage and the recognition of those marriages from other jurisdictions until 2015. In fact, the federal government had been banned from recognizing same-sex marriages by the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, which had been voided by the Supreme Court decision in 2015 but has only been fully repealed by the Respect of Marriage Act in 2022. That's all the 21st century. And very recent 21st century!

When Hen and Karen adopted Denny in 2011, they weren't married. Because at that point in time, they weren't allowed to in California.

Did you know that until the Supreme Court ruling on Lawrence v. Texas on June 26, 2003, same-sex sexual activity was illegal in 14 US states? And that even with that ruling 12 of these states have not changed their state's constitution, so that these laws aren't executable but still on the book and regularly used to harass queer people? (And didn't the current Supreme Court just say after overthrowing Roe v. Wade they'd like to take a good long look at Lawrence v. Texas, too? People might lose their rights again in those 12 states if the worst comes to pass here.) That's all the 21st century.

Did you know that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" came into effect in 1994, allowing gay and bi people to serve in the US military as long as no one found out about their sexual orientation? If they were found out, they could face dishonorable discharges or even prison time. Either would be a permanent burden on their records for the rest of their lives. DADT was repelled in 2011 after a long and hard debate. That's well into the 21st century.

Karen explicitely states that DADT is part of the reason she didn't become an astronaut. (Though, NASA was never truly subjected to the rule as it is not a military organisation. But on the other hand, many of the astronatus are active or former military.)

Tommy was at the 118 in 2005. We know he was in the Army prior to joining the LAFD. That means Tommy served under the rule of DADT, which would have been an immense burden on him.

Do you know that there is a defense called "LGBTQ+ panic" often used in combination with a defense of insanity, provocation, or self-defense? This defense tactic is only banned in 21 US states, and most of those bans are very recent. In 2018, only three states had banned this defense. In 29 US states people are allowed to say "this person is gay/trans/queer/etc and I felt threated by that fact alone so I saw myself with no other choice but to hurt them" in a court of a law and the jury has to consider that argument. That's the 21st century.

Let's take a look at the kind of world Josh, Michael, and Tommy would have been children and teenagers in. That's not quite the 21st century, but it's near enough.

Tha aids epemedic started in the 1980s, and is — for the record! — still ongoing. But in the 1980s it was very much deemed a problem of the gay community only. And many, many people claimed outrageous things like "they're getting what they deserve". Josh and Tommy are both 80s children, Michael was a teenager in the 80s. We know Tommy grew up with a bigoted and hateful man like Gerrard as a father. He probably heard the above quote and worse regularly.

Have you ever heard the name Mathew Shepard, @queershits? (If not, go and educate yourself!) Mathew Shepard was a young gay man tortured and murdered in October 1998. Josh and Tommy would have been teenagers or maybe young adults (as we don't know the exact age of either of them) when that happened. It was all over the news and there were, again, people not shying away from saying he got what he deserved. I've no doubt Tommy's father (and Gerrard) was one of those people.

That's the world Josh, Michael, and Tommy grew up in as gay men that Josh talked about. They didn't hide to protect their reputation, as it was put in the quote above. They hid to protect their life and well-being. Finding the confidence and security to let go of that kind of learned behavior to protect yourself is so hard. But all three did it!

There are still people today who have to hide like this in the US. Because they're born into the wrong family or the wrong neighborhood or the wrong religious community where being queer is still seen as a ground to hate them, to exclude them, to hurt them, to kill them.

The number of hate crimes is rising again. The hard-won rights and freedom of queer people are threatened again. It's the 21st century, but that doesn't mean we are always safe or that we don't sometimes have to do shady things to protect ourselves or that we can lean back and enjoy the rights we have. Because many of us all over the world either don't have any rights or are facing the very real danger of losing the rights again that those who came before us fought so hard for.

[kinardsboy]

Tommy treats Buck the way they think Eddie treats Buck

You’re exhausting/You’re adorable

No wonder they hate him, hes a constant reminder of who treats Buck better 🤭

[tevanbuckley]

can't believe the newest defence from bddie shippers is, "everyone jokes about killing people over fictional ships, it's the internet!" what a self report lmfao.

sorry, but if you're laughing at jokes about how you care to such an unreasonable degree about 911 yaoi you'd be willing to kill over it, you've gone too far.

[groupielove21]

Eddie with Buck during the divorce era

[shaunashipman]

blaming the state of fandom on "new fans" like you don't know ppl are gonna take that as meaning bucktommys instead of the influx of buddie stans, as well as the OG buddies who just let everything slide and had already made the fandom toxic for anyone who didn't worship at the altar of buddie

you're not fucking slick

[stolenkissesdiaz]

tommy calling buck ‘evan’ during their entire relationship and the first, and only time, he calls him buck is after he breaks up with him. eddie calling buck ‘evan’ only once and it was when he gave buck his goddamn son. the only time tommy called him buck was before leaving and the only time eddie called him evan was when he gave buck proof of him and chris staying. of them wanting buck. of them keeping buck. id say “which could meaning nothing!” but it actually means everything.

[kenneth-black]

I think Eddie feels the most comfortable and at home with his abuela because growing up, she was probably the only person in his family who allowed him to be a child while everyone else expected him to be the man of the house. She let him be her little Eddito… 🥺🙃

[gif made by the talented @housewifebuck 🤍]

[madlori]

On rewatch, one of the things that struck me about Buck and Tommy's interactions in 8x05, apart from the often-mentioned implied comfort levels and caretaking, is that Buck is no longer in awe of Tommy.

When he first met him, he was this Cool Guy. A Cool Guy Buck wanted to get to know. At the harbor tour, at the basketball game, in the loft scene, on their first date - Buck's a bit starry-eyed. He's got a whiff of hero-worship and I'm-not-worthy about him, he's talking about Tommy's confidence and his cleft to his sister in giggly tones like he's got a big old crush, which he does.

It maybe starts to ease up a bit on the coffee date, where he's treating Tommy more like someone who could be a partner to him.

By the time we see them in 8x05, that transition's complete.

Buck's not in awe of this guy anymore. And that's a good thing. Not that he doesn't think Tommy's cool anymore, but...they're past that. Tommy's not this unreachable Hot Pilot Firefighter that Buck's swooning over. He's his boyfriend. His partner. His everyday, shows up for him, comfortable in his home, boyfriend. He's seen Tommy drool in his sleep, seen his morning hair, smelled him when he needs a shower. Tommy's seen him sweaty from a workout, splattered with the latest cooking mishap, tripping over his own feet.

Tommy's no longer a guy Buck's trying to be cool around, trying to be what he thinks Tommy wants, trying to say just the right thing. He doesn't have to be cautious anymore. He's being himself. He's pouting. He's rambling about curses. He's saying "Oh, so I am gross!" petulantly. He doesn't even seem self-conscious to have Tommy see him with boils all over his face (but he's grumpy not to be getting kissed).

He's not worried about impressing this guy anymore. He's past the point where he needs to be on his best behavior. It's done. Tommy's impressed. He's all in. They both are.

[ravipanikking]

"Tommy is nothing"

Tommy is the only other canon gay male character after Josh that we've seen since Michael and David left

Tommy was Buck's bisexual awakening and that will ALWAYS be important

Tommy haunted the narrative after he left AND Buck kept on stress baking which is something we haven't seen with any of his love interests, not even with Abby

And, most importantly, Tommy sure isn't nothing to all the queer ppl who saw this flawed character who grew to be a better person and had major baggage similar to what a lot of us go through and was able to relate to him on a personal level

In conclusion: Tommy is NOT nothing. Not to the narrative and especially not to us

Thank you for coming to my Tedtalk

[nqueso-emergency]

https://x.com/buddieslut/status/1878954983942701129?s=46

Ah I see we're back to twts about executing people for liking something different.

[imakatperson22]

Yes, I ship Buddie.

Yes, I ship Tevan.

[tevanbuckley]

leaked footage from the 911 writers room (2024)