#or should i say. quotes plural

[pixiishi]

a guy and his dog 💥

ID in ALT

[noegrets]

...but on the other hand, english is a battle-royale-free-for-all kind of language: if you want to write it like lightswitch or waterbottle, who exactly is going to stop you? it's still perfectly communicative, the result is perfectly understandable. you can make YOUR words frot on purpose :)

On a slightly more serious note: I write a lot in english, which is a language I learned later in life. My wife beta-reads for me, english being her mother tongue. We find lots of words where she informs me that this word is not usually hyphenated like this, or compound like that: so we look up the way I wrote it vs. all the other variations (google n-gram viewer used to be good for this) and, almost always, we learn that the way I wrote it has plenty recorded uses overall, but is currently uncommon. And so I say - sure, why can't I use the uncommon one if I like it that way? It's still perfectly understandable, and language is made by those who use it.

We won't have any prescriptivism in this house: my words may fuck as they please.

one thing i hate about english is your open compound words. what do you mean it's a light switch and not a lightswitch or a water bottle instead of a waterbottle. get real

[reminiscentreader]

*internal sigh* rant post on lyra hate (again) i guess

first of all i have NO idea what shes done to accumulate all this hate except for ruin a bunch of random peoples parasocial relationships with grayson, these guys are seriously getting worse that the Aaron Warner stans, AND WE DO NOT EXCEPT THAT KIND OF HATE HERE 🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️ i think the only way im going to be able to do this is address all the arguments for hating lyra individually. (also i want to say i have no problem with people having there own opinions but when it gets THIS far i feel like i have a duty to say something as a lyra stan)

first i want to talk about her being self absorbed/whiny brat, THIS THING MAKES NO SENSE TO ME, the only people in the series she wwas rude to were people who were rude first. if anything we should have taken that she was kind away from her character, Literally like the first person she meets is odette, WHO SHE TREATS WITH KINDNESS, and then she has a run in with gigi, WHO SHE TREATS WITH KIDNESS, and then she has the avery situation WHERE SHE LITERALLY BECOMES THE #1 AVERY GRAMBS GLAZER, THIS GIRL WAS IN AWE OF HER 😭🙏🙏 and then she dances with xander WHO SHE TREATS WITH KINDNESS, this whole “lyras such a bitch” makes no sense at ALL, especially those people who say “grayson deserved someone like gigi, 🥺🥺.” A- I DONT KNOW IF YOU NOTICED BUT GRAYSON DOES HAVE GIGI, HIS SISTER WHO HE LOVES VERY MUCH. ITS ALMOST AS IF THERE WAS A WHOLE BOOK ABOUT GRAYSON AND GIGI AND B- LYRA WAS GIGI what these people dont understand is that lyra was a COMPLETELY different person back then, she says something about her being the happiest teenage girl. (also people who sooo desperately want grayson to end up with someone “just like gigi” are weirdddd)

next (AND THIS ONE PISSES ME OFF SOOOO MUCH 😓😓😓) “lyra is just an avery copy” GENUINELY STFU, the only thing similar about them is that they were introduced taking a test 😐😐😐, THE GIRLS DONT EVEN LOOK ALIKE?? the way they make desicions and just function in general is so different avery is a very logical person but lyra tends to be more emotional, if you want to compare jlb mfc compare cassie and avery and them sawyer and lyra. Averys main trait is her smartness and intelligence, whereas lyras is her braveness and caringness?? (i have no idea what the plural for caring is) im also gonna branch “grayson could never love anyone as much as avery blah blah 😒.” into this one and let me make this sooo clear. GRAYSON IS NOT ROMANTICALLY IN LOVE WITH AVERY ANYMORE. in fact in the brothers hawthorne, there is a whole chapter where he comes to this realisation. In case any of you missed it heres a direct quote “suddenly since the first time he’d met avery grambs, there was nothing tense or painful about standing this close to her, shed told him once they were family, maybe a part of him had been running from that to.”

anway sorry for the rant guys 🙏🙏

[argumate]

User: Okay, the person is mad that I quoted from memory and didn’t use exact wording. Please interpret this phrase, which I copied and pasted directly from their original post: “honestly the problem with the USSR isn't that it was atheist it's that it wasn't atheist enough, it not only replaced one set of vibes based governance with another, but it didn't even do a good job of crushing the church.”

How do you interpret this in light of our previous discussion?

ChatGPT: Thanks for providing the exact quote. Here’s the original statement:

“honestly the problem with the USSR isn’t that it was atheist it’s that it wasn’t atheist enough, it not only replaced one set of vibes based governance with another, but it didn’t even do a good job of crushing the church.”

⸻

Interpretation:

This statement is explicitly ideological and reflects a strong anti-religious stance. Let’s break it down piece by piece:

⸻

1. “the problem with the USSR isn’t that it was atheist it’s that it wasn’t atheist enough”

• This is a clear endorsement of militant atheism, suggesting that the USSR’s secularism was insufficient.

• The speaker isn’t criticizing the USSR for being too anti-religious, but rather for not being secular or anti-religious enough.

• They’re arguing that the state failed by allowing too much religious influence or not going far enough in eliminating it.

⸻

2. “it not only replaced one set of vibes based governance with another”

• This is dismissive of both religious governance and Soviet-style Marxist-Leninist rule.

• “Vibes-based governance” implies rule based on irrational ideology or emotional fervor, not rational, evidence-based policymaking.

• The speaker is criticizing both religion and Soviet ideology as dogmatic or faith-based—and implying that true atheistic governance should be rational and detached from ideology.

⸻

3. “but it didn’t even do a good job of crushing the church.”

• This is the key line in light of your earlier question. It explicitly laments the fact that the Soviet regime failed to effectively destroy the church.

• The word “crushing” is violent and final—it’s not about persuasion or cultural change, but outright elimination of the institution.

• Even if not literally advocating mass violence, the tone is clearly hostile to religious institutions and expresses regret that the USSR’s campaign wasn’t more effective.

⸻

Conclusion:

This reinforces your earlier suspicion:

The speaker is not anti-violence in principle when it comes to dealing with religion—at least institutionally. They are expressing frustration that the USSR didn’t go further in suppressing or destroying the church, possibly even through coercive or oppressive means.

Even if they try to walk it back later by claiming it was about nonviolent or cultural change, the phrasing—“crushing the church”—is aggressive and aligned with authoritarian secularism, not peaceful pluralism.

⸻

My Final Stance:

This statement is not anti-violence in tone, content, or implication.

It is, rather, a disdainful critique of the USSR for failing to fully eradicate religious institutions, with language that strongly suggests a comfort with, or even desire for, more effective oppression of the church.

If they now claim it was meant in a purely anti-violence or abstract philosophical sense, that interpretation is highly implausible given the language they actually used.

well I definitely agree that the USSR's secularism was insufficient, and that the state failed to eliminate religious institutions and allowed them to remain influential by tacitly backing down in the 1940s when under pressure from the nazis, and the critique of Soviet ideology as dogmatic and faith-based yes, and the tone is definitely hostile to religious institutions, no doubt about that.

however I don't think the rights of people should be infringed, so nobody should be imprisoned or killed for what they say or believe, it can't be illegal to hang out with your friends even if you read the bible together or pray to Mecca or do that falun dafa meditation thing or even god forbid study mathematics or something messed up.

and if that isn't clear from the post, I can only beg forgiveness and suggest that you read the several other thousand posts I've written on the topic of not killing people.

[suresuresureaursure]

yeah btw this is how I feel when My deity Alter played minecraft

Mystery voice : "if we're straight then I'm minecraft jesus reincarnated into the son of Rick Astley"

Adam : "HOLY SHIT IS THAT MINECRAFT JESUS INCARNATE RICK ASTLEY'S SON?????"

Mystery voice : "Do not be afraid, for rick astleys son, minecraft jesus, is here"

Adam : "truely the sequel we've been waiting for, jesus christ : the second coming. Minecraft pocket edition "

.

[subsystems]

Final Fusion Misinformation

You might have seen people saying something like this before: "studies find that final fusion only works 12.8% of the time." When I was pursuing final fusion, people in the community threw this 12.8% at me to try and discourage me from my desired recovery. After all, what's the point of pooling all of my time & energy into pursuing final fusion if it has such a low success rate?

Although I don't know where exactly this "low success rate" idea came from, most people I know explain that The Plural Association introduced it to them. This would make sense, because this nonprofit frequently states that final fusion has a 12.8% success rate on their webpage & resources. Here's some examples:

(Source)

(Source)

(Source)

Now, here's the thing:

This is at best a misquote & at worst purposeful misinformation.

The study that is linked here does not say that final fusion is only successful 12.8% of the time, or that only 12.8% of DID patients achieve final fusion.

In this study, a handful of DID clinicians are interviewed about their patients. It says that 39 patients terminated their therapy. 25.6% of those patients said that they reached a successful resolution in their therapy, they no longer needed it. 12.8% of those no longer needed therapy after full fusion, 12.8% no longer needed therapy but didn't fully fuse.

This is not a success rate. This does not say how many patients achieved final fusion. This is just a reason behind why some people left their therapy. The percentage is the same for people who did and did not achieve final fusion.

Here's the exact quote from the study:

(Source)

I have no idea how anyone can take a look at this and misconstrue the 12.8% to be about how successful final fusion is. It's possible it was just a misunderstanding, but I have trouble trusting that as The Plural Association has cited this study multiple times, including writing a whole article on it, yet continues to misconstrue final fusion as only being successful in 12.8% patients when that's just, blatantly, wrong.

Please reblog & spread this! Final fusion is horrifically stigmatized and fully fused systems are subjected to frequent harassment & misinformation about their recovery choices. It's not okay, and we should hold nonprofits like The Plural Association to better standards.

[violentdelightshavevioletends]

20% into Fourth Wing (according to my audio… I love that I can listen and work on commissions/wrapping gifts simultaneously😂)

Thoughts so far:

Do all books give content warnings? … is this because it’s that violent or is this just a thing now? Appreciated either way! Just new to me :-)

Her mother makes no sense. I hate her. Yet, I have a feeling I will regret saying that. And if I don’t WHY would you do that to your kid.

Okay, ow, so the brother is dead… that hit the grief point.

Do we love Mira (idk why I’m using plurals)? I think I get her, I’d do anything for my little siblings… but I also am a younger sibling and know how that babying hurts.

“Fragile.” — WOW, WE ARE THE SAME😅

I love Violet (I’m predictable).

Her hair sounds dope. And I actually get why she loves it because it’s hers, it’s healthy… I feel that.

Funny her eyes are well detailed to match the EDS coloration for some subtypes *not licensed but nurse brain says*😂

Even if I don’t know people ship her with Xaden (tbh idk if it’s literally just that cause of tropes & 0 canon) but I can see why… immediately fits the “forbidden, bad boy, should be enemies, has sudden interest, they were the most beautiful I’d ever seen”

I should not have gotten so attached to Dylan so soon. But also I kinda knew it?

I love Rhiannon… plus Maasverse brain says it’s a win

“I will not die today” — that’s a good mantra

Jack can die today please!

Great so they are killing each-other off, that sure sounds like a great place to spend three years in “hunger games college”.

Childhood best friends to lovers, oh great this is gonna get me, I’m screwed.

Okay, legit the knee sublex scene is so well done and relatable to me and I imagine every EDS/LDS/Marfins/HSD friend I have. *I say this as I type currently wearing a brace ring on my thumb, ice brace on my knee, and heating pad on my back😅😭*

… how do we feel about Dean… Dain? How do we even say it… I don’t know.

These fueds sound kinda old to me

I like the quote per chapter thing

+ The “a dragon without a rider is a tragedy but a writer without a dragon is dead” is a good one

[chalicepumasway]

Ren Little M77

#IntheLittleWood #Rendog #Hermitshipping #DocM77 #PG13

“I do.” Said Ren. His ears flickering back and forth and his eyes filling with bright tears.

“We do.” Said DocM77 and IntheLittleWood at the same time. There had been weeks of discussion who would say it second. The compromise was that they would say it in unison as we not I. In practice it was fine. In the emotion of the moment it sounded as if both men were plural.

The tears gave up resisting and awashed Ren’s face in clear joy. Years of dating both men and the struggle and pain it brought had finally culminated in this moment. The three shared a kiss. Doc on Ren’s left and Martyn on Ren’s right. He truly did love both of these men with his whole heart.

Doc turned off the wedding video as Ren cried happy tears on the couch at 3 in the morning. Doc and Ren were alone this week while Martyn was away on business but instead of appreciating the alone time with him, Ren was up watching the wedding video missing Martyn.

Doc had asked Martyn before he left if he really needed to go on this trip. Martyn’s reply nearly broke him.

“Listen, if you think I don’t know what you are about to go through, you are SORELY mistaken, mate. I took the wedding video from him one night because I was sick of it and he wandered around the house like a widow waiting for her sailor to come home, complete with gauzy lacy robe which I haven’t seen since. You were with your Mum for two weeks! Good luck. I don’t envy you.”

Martyn looked at the pain on my face and pitied me. “But if you let him get to the kissing part he cries himself to sleep on the couch and you can carry him to bed. It’ll be a very fun morning when he wakes.”

Doc scooped up a softly sobbing Ren and tucked him into the middle of the bed and took his side of the California King. He rubbed Ren’s back and shortly his twice crowned king fell asleep. Doc spent his remaining conscious moments thinking about the drama that led to the wedding.

Ren’s broken engagement to Martyn after Doc asked Ren to get revenge on the Buttercups. Ren had agreed without thought and Martyn couldn’t stand him spending all that time with Doc, Ren’s ex. Doc being left at the altar not long after when Martyn showed up and quoted Brokeback Mountain’s “I can’t quit you!” to Ren while he got ready for the ceremony.

The severe embarrassment being left so publicly caused Doc to get absolutely wasted with The Hive Mind who had made up most of his side of the wedding chapel. After passing out he woke up in a bathtub with a note pinned to his half unbutton tux shirt.

“The only way is thru, both of you should marry him together.” Doc hadn’t recognized the handwriting but he did recognize the genius. Undoubtedly Ren would come crawling back with his tail between his legs begging for forgiveness. Doc started to write up a contract for him and Martyn to consider when that happened. As much as Doc hated having a rival for Ren’s affection he respected that Martyn was unapologetically evil and would likely benefit from cooperation.

In the months since the triple wedding there had been long stretches of peace. Ren spending time in the garden with Doc pulling weeds and tending to the 27 varieties of tomatoes growing there. Ren and Martyn had reenacted an encounter with an asshole at the grocery store along with makeshift costumes and props.

However, there had also been moments of all out prank wars to snag moments of Ren’s full attention. Doc woke up floating on an air mattress in the middle of the lake next to the house. Doc had responded by trapping Martyn in a pitfall with anime figures he had been fawning over as bait.

Doc would say Ren enjoyed the rivalry but he had his moments. Ren confessed that he thought Martyn and Doc would eventually fall for one another and there would either be peace or Doc and Martyn abandon Ren and run away together. Martyn and Doc had taken a long look at one another and both decided they weren’t one another’s type.

Ren was devastated for a few days afterwards. The realization that he had basically married into a war zone finally set in. He was truly a lover and not a fighter in every sense of the word. Ren had spent days telling both Doc and Martyn all the wonderful things about the other until it drove them mad. Doc and Martyn came together and made him stop by making it clear the pranks were an agreed upon method of venting frustrations. Martyn had agreed not to mess with Doc’s redstone and Doc would not destroy any anime or Japanese related items.

Our polymarriage was wild. The first fight was relating to the specific legal details of the marriage.

“Listen, I have a right to know why you two were in our shared bedroom dressed up in a conjoined sniffer costume. “ Martyn looked exasperated at Doc and Ren, shirt in disarray with his hair sticking out in all directions from running both hands through it.

Doc contemplated his response and Ren looked abashed. “It’s not a sexual thing.”

“What?! That’s worse! You know that’s worse that it wasn’t a kink I didn’t know about between my other husbands. Wait, is Doc my husband as well?” Doc chuckled and wheezed.

“No you are both married to me not each other. Like I’m a Mormon husband and you are my wives.” Ren nodded knowingly. Confident in this.

Doc’s chuckle stopped suddenly. It was Martyn’s turn to look serious and sullen. “I am not the wife! YOU are the wife Ren and we are the husbands.”

“No you both married me but not one another so you are my wives.” Ren looked proud of himself.

Doc turned to Martyn. “And you’re ok with this?”

“Listen, I don’t mind being called a wife. I minded being married to YOU.” Martyn snarked.

“WHAT?!” I am an amazing husband. A much better husband than you. I got into the sniffer suit without being super judgey.” Doc shrieked at Martyn whose face turned bright red.

“I’m ok with being the second best husband as long as it means I’m not having my butt sniffed in a furry costume.” Martyn’s snark sent Doc into a full fury.

The arguing went on for awhile until Doc finally convinced Martyn to try on the sniffer costume and then took blackmail pictures. The rest of the night was Martyn fighting Doc to destroy the photos off the phone.

Doc listened to Ren snoring. He looked at the man he loved and wondered what his life would be like if he had taken a different path.

[a-dragons-journal]

Not the previous anon, but your answer made me wonder what exactly defines something being alterhuman. I know it means an experience/identity that’s alternative to humanity, but I find that definition vague and uncommitted. Like, what does alternative to humanity mean exactly and who gets to define it? If it’s an experience that the vast majority of humanity doesn’t have, then that would definitely include archetropes and hearthomes, but it would also include stuff like being a master bassoon player because that’s something most people aren’t as well. I’m not asking this in bad faith, I’m just confused where the line is drawn, what is considered alterhuman, and what isn’t, and why, because it all seems kinda arbitrary.

This post, the final "coining post" (put in quotes because it was kind of a process of refining more than a single post, but this was the final definition essay) for AlterHuman Personal Identity/AHPI, which would rapidly turn into just alterhumanity, may be helpful to you.

As I said in my last post (which was sent before you sent this in, in your defense), it is ultimately subjective and up to interpretation a bit. There's a reason that there's debate on, say, whether plurality should be included in alterhumanity "by default". It is kind of arbitrary, because that's how a label as broad as alterhuman works. That being said, I would say that, to use your example, being a master bassoon player doesn't make you alterhuman because while that experience is rare, it's not one society considers outside the range of "normal human experience."

But there's also, admittedly, a cultural aspect to it. A lot of mainstream society considers being neurodivergent outside the range of "normalcy" - but few people will argue that neurodivergency in general should be considered alterhuman by default (although personally, if an individual feels their neurodivergency makes the word alterhuman fit them right, I feel that's up to them to decide). And yet, plurality, arguably just one form of neurodivergency, is often considered alterhuman by default, in large part because of cultural ties between the plural community and other alterhuman communities - plurality often comes with speciesqueer experiences, fictionfolk experiences, and other experiences that are shared with or similar to other alterhuman identities, and perhaps as a result of that, the communities have a history of interacting a lot. Similarly, a term that arose out of alterhuman spaces is a lot more likely to be considered alterhuman than one that arose elsewhere - because the fact that alterhumans felt that it needed to be created says that they probably feel it's divergent enough from "normal human experience" to "count" as alterhuman, and because its historic and cultural ties to the alterhuman community probably make it inherently connected to the idea of alterhumanity, if that makes any sense.

It is subjective and it is messy, and I know that's not as satisfying an answer as you'd probably like, but like I said, it's the nature of an ultra-broad umbrella term designed with inclusiveness as a high priority. It's not a clean line so much as a gradient - there's a wide swathe of gray area transitioning slowly from "definitely alterhuman* (ex. therianthropy)" -> "alterhuman by default, but relatively easy to see how someone might not consider it to be (ex. plurality)" -> "not necessarily alterhuman by default, but easily considered as such (ex. furry lifestyler)" -> "not alterhuman by default, a few may consider it to be (ex. furry)" -> "definitely not alterhuman (ex. bassoon player)".

*"definitely alterhuman" as in, by definition; individuals may of course choose to not use the term for themself. ex. therianthropy firmly fits under the alterhuman umbrella by definition, though not all therianthropes like or use that word.

Or at least that's my thoughts on it. Y'all's thoughts, @ the general alterhuman public?

[sophieinwonderland]

Now, why would you dare me to embarrass you and your pals like that?

I appreciate how you wanted my attention so bad you posted me to not one, but two subreddits.

Makes a girl feel special! 🤣

I have actually never seen Wikipedia cited as a source about endogenic plurality. Though I do see anti-endos all the time, when asked for sources, telling people to just Google things.

Anyway, here's @guardianssystem's document filled with academic papers about endogenic plurality:

I've compiled my own, but honestly, theirs is better organized than mine.

And in the interest of fairness, here are all the anti-endo papers debunking endogenic plurality:

Sorry, I forgot. Those don't exist. Oops. 🤷‍♀️

Echo chamber? LOL!

Weren't you the one spouting a bunch of lies on Tumblr, got totally debunked, posted the people who debunked you to r/systemscringe to have a hugbox where fakeclaimers could assure you how the people who contradicted you are all fakers, and then blocked everyone who disagreed with you?

Weren't you also the one who, when shown a quote from an expert in dissociative disorders who worked on the DSM-5 saying that a disorder isn't a disorder if it doesn't cause distress, argued that the people who defined what disorder are must be wrong about that definition?

You're a misinformation machine who can only find support when huddled in cringe subreddits. Don't try to talk about people in echo chambers.

Also, you know most of psychology is just... listening to people? That's how it's been as long as the field existed. DID (or MPD at the time) was a recognized disorder since long before the first brain scans were conducted on DID patients. It's saying something though when basically every single scientist who has ever researched endogenic plurality has said they believe it's a real thing, or that it could be. While absolutely zero academic papers have expressed that it's fake.

There is also an fMRI study into tulpa systems that's been in the works, but results have yet to be published.

Sure, if that's what you'd like me to call you, Crazy. 😊

Anyway, Crazy, you should know that just because you personally find something scary doesn't mean everyone will or that the thing is bad. Personal preferences are a thing.

In a study of tulpamancers though, most generally reported their lives becoming better after the practice.

78% reported improvements in their mental health, and 91% on overall life.

There are many out there who would jump at the chance to have someone there with them that knows them intimately, and to never have to be alone again.

If it's not for you, then so be it.

But it's certainly not something to be afraid of.

And maybe, for those who are willing to commit to the practice while America struggles with an epidemic of loneliness, it's something worth being open to.

This is actually pretty fair.

But that's now, and I'm looking at course of history and trends of plural acceptance.

300 years ago, any plural would be viewed as demon possessed and end up tortured or killed for their plurality.

70 years ago, all plurality was seen as a mental illness, and it was common to force plurals, as well as anyone else associated with mental illnesses, into asylums.

30 years ago, the first real plural communities were able to connect on the internet and form in small numbers.

8 years ago, the first studies into endogenic plurality started being conducted. 4 years ago, the ICD-11 acknowledged that you could have multiple distinct personality states without a disorder. 2023 marked the first, but certainly not the last, time a system used their system name as an author of an academic paper.

Recently, new plural resources have been designed and put into use. More servers than ever are using Pluralkit. And Simply Plural went from 100k users at the end of 2021 to 210k at the end of 2022.

Progress is happening far more rapidly than you realize. And you had best be ready for it.

BOO! 👻

Oh, hey, I just realized... this is literal pluralphobia!

Liberté!

Egalité!

Fraternité!

And yes, The Future is Plural! 😜

[multiplicity-positivity]

hello? i hope this is not much bother, but i was wondering if i/we could get some advice.

(tw anti endo, fakeclaiming)

so. our collective found out that a friend of ours that we haven't spoken to in a long while is anti-endo. problem is, they aren't aware of our traumagen, plus other origins? and we are pretty sure they are a singlet, but they put endo systems in quotes like we aren't real. and we really wanted to talk to them again, but we are still very scared...

we have yet to confront them about it, but is there anything we can say/offer them to help them understand endogenic systems aren't bad? or should we give it up completely?

thank you for taking your time to read this,

-Kris from 🏢🪐 collective

hey, every person is different, and we may not have a perfect answer on how you can convince this person of the validity of endogenic systems. we’ve found that, for many, but not all anti endos, they may bury their head in the sand and refuse to listen to reason, be respectful, or acknowledge research that explores plurality without trauma. sometimes they may feel like the community or self-righteousness they feel from being anti endo makes it worth being ignorant. sometimes they’re uninterested in change because the concept is scary or difficult for them.

that being said… here are some things you may do.

first - maybe just talk about the vastness of the plural spectrum. talk about how plurality simply means being more than one, nothing more. talk about how plurality can often be a symptom of dissociative disorders, but is not a disorder in and of itself.

second - establish that as a rule, you don’t like to police the lived experiences of others, and maybe they shouldn’t either. that individuals know what they’re going through more than anyone else ever could. that trying to dictate what someone else can and cannot experience is in poor taste, especially when not backed by research.

third - and as far as research goes… we have two thoughts.

research that studies dissociative disorders doesn’t prove or disprove endogenic plurality. it has little to nothing to do with endogenic plurality. so the research that claims that you need trauma in order to form a dissociative disorder is talking about just that. dissociative disorders. not plurality as a whole.

also, there is research that acknowledges plurality without trauma. the language they use may be different, and they may never say “endogenic systems,” outright, but it’s still there. here are some of our favorite studies into different forms of multiplicity that don’t inherently involve traumagenic origins:

‘I’ve learned I need to treat my characters like people’: Varieties of agency and interaction in Writers’ experiences of their Characters’ Voices

Conceptualizing multiplicity spectrum experiences: A systematic review and thematic synthesis

The Inner Vehicle: Prayer, Tulpamancy, and the Magic of the Mind

in the end, if you haven’t spoken to this friend in a long time, it very well may be best to leave this alone and go your separate ways. they might feel slighted if you want to reconnect for the sole purpose of convincing them that they’re wrong about something. at the very least, if you do reconnect, maybe spend some time getting to know each other again and reforging your connection before bringing the topic of endogenic systems into the discussion.

finally, know that your origins and your system are both valid regardless of what this person or anyone else thinks. it could be worth it for you all to spend some time reaffirming your identities and finding some form of internal validation before having these discussions. don’t let their thoughts or closed-mindedness change the way you view yourselves, if you are certain about your origins. no one else’s opinions of you, your system, or your validity should matter - you all exist, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

we know that doing something like this can be tricky and difficult. if you want further information, we answered an ask over a year ago with some common misconceptions anti endos have about endogenic plurality, which we’ll link here in case y’all might find it useful:

sorry this got so long, but we hope it helps. good luck to you with having these difficult conversations with your friend.

[plxnetn1ne]

since everyone in this fandom and their mum seem to be giving their piece about the ‘update’ coming to Hogwarts Legacy on the 6th, i figured id give my piece even if no one has asked

ive been seeing a lot of posts and replies about how “we should just take what we get and be grateful” and “the devs are working hard, do you know how hard game development is?”

im very aware of how difficult game development can be and how mentally taxing it is. i dont doubt that they’ve been through the mill.

the update is trash. its that simple. we’re allowed to feel upset about it, and for people saying that its not fair to be upset — it is fair. we shouldnt have to expect the bare minimum from a game that sold 22 million copies and reached nearly 2 billion dollars in revenue, a game that had 14 nominations for awards and 3 wins.

we were told we were getting a summer update alongside the Haunted Hogsmeade quest — the quest they promised to release to PC and Xbox in march when the game celebrated one year of release. they said, and i quote;

“As we near the one-year anniversary of Hogwarts Legacy, we wanted to let our community know that the Hogwarts Legacy PlayStation-exclusive content will be available on other platforms later this summer, along with additional updates and features for the game. Stay tuned in the coming months for more details on what’s coming to Hogwarts Legacy this year.” copy and pasted straight from Hogwarts Legacy’s official twitter page. along with additional updates and features to the game.

yes — i know, thats a very vague statement. it could have been taken in any way, but typically when additional updates and features — plural — is put into a sentence, you assume that there will be more than one new feature. it wasnt wrong for the community to assume that there was more than a few new additions coming to the game.

okay, we got photo mode — thats great for console players, but it isnt new for us PC players. im happy for my console buddies that finally get to bring their mc to life in the way ive been able to. im looking forward to seeing the uptick in photos upon the updates release. PC and Xbox got the new haunted hogsmeade quest, and thats great, considering the release of it was delayed by 3 months, but atleast we’re getting it. but basically. PS5 was fucked in the process, because everything minus photo mode is stuff they already had, and honestly, thats not fair. and double honest — thats not an update. thats the release of exclusive content plus a new addition.

for several months a summer update was hyped up, and the result was…. ps5 getting fucked, a photo mode that im going to bet my ass on will be buggy as all hell, and some cosmetics. so no — i wont be grateful. especially when we keep getting promised things and then getting fucked by a hot iron in the process. because i havent forgotten the documentary that was supposed to come out, and i still remember during September when they hyped up a digital surprise for Back to Hogwarts day and it ended up being 30 percent off on a game most of us already had, only for the game to go on sale for half off the following Nov/Dec for the holiday sales.

since the release of the game, modders have been basically picking up the slack by working their asses off to create bug fixes, better cosmetic options, enhanced schedules, companions, and so much more to keep the community somewhat entertained. this as well as the file miners that are constantly digging things up that we were robbed of, like the relationship list for companions, gaunt manor, other house specific quests, more quests concerning Isadora, on and on. on top of this, ive seen first hand how much of the outer parts of the map was developed only to be cut out. i spent a solid hour and a half today using free cam to fly around the outskirts of the map — buildings, caves, entire areas laid out for towns or poacher camps, all thrown out on top of all of the discarded quests and content.

and while im at it — ill be one of the few to say it, but Hogwarts Legacies storyline was not well thought out, or at the very least it wasnt very well portrayed. there were hundreds of questions we were left with upon beating the game. where did Anne go? what happened to the keepers after the final battle? why wasnt Isadora in her portrait? what were the keepers hiding? did inhaling the magic actually make a difference or was it just for shock value? how much of Isadora’s story did we miss? how was the undercroft tied in with Isadora when it was apparently a Gaunt secret? what even really was the undercroft?

yes, i know — “well arent they making a second one?” and yeah, im pretty sure they are, and maybe thats why we’ve gotten nothing more than a pile of bricks in the last year and a half. but, they should probably finish the first game before starting on a second.

this doesnt mean i dont love Hogwarts Legacy. i love the people ive met, the stories ive read, and i love capturing the screenshots i take from that game. the entire situation is just frustrating to no end.

[polutrope]

Ambarussa Appreciation

I have said before that I think Amrod and Amras have much untapped imaginative potential. But that's not to say there are no intrepid creators who have done marvellous work with the sixth and seventh sons of Fëanor. Here are some of them! Feel free to reblog this with additions of your own.

Fics

A Kind of Mercy by @aipilosse (T, 0.8k). Amras & Amrod. A haunting character study.

truth in a mirror by athenakarthagonensis (E, 4.4k). Amrod/OMC. Stunning prose and a dangerous lightly-toasted Amrod. The unique Green-elf POV is excellent.

The White Tower by Anna_Wing (not rated, 11.2k). Post-canon Elwing-focused fic (fascinating worldbuilding and musings on the nature of the Oath), but interesting and refreshing to see her interacting with the 'forgotten' Kinslayers.

Who By Fire by me (M, 4.9k). Amrod/Fingolfin. Two grief-raw souls connect at Mithrim. Lightly-toasted Amrod. cw: past attempted suicide, mental instability, injury, animal death.

The Same Blood by me (T, 1k). Amras and Amrod's relationship feels the strain of what they have been through. Follow-up to the previous fic.

as a mist of light, chapter 12 by @swanmaids (T, ficlet). Amras finds a way to cope after the fire. Crispy Amrod. cw: self harm.

We Shared Everything by @cuarthol (M, 2.2k). Amras and Amrod shared everything, until they didn't. Crispy Amrod. Fantastic use of first person (plural and singular).

Dénouement by @sallysavestheday (G, 0.9k). Amrod/Aredhel, post-canon. Two people who were killed by people they love find understanding in each other. Crispy Amrod.

A Name by @skyeventide (G, 1k). Beautiful and impactful musings on identity, pulling from the convoluted and complex names associated with these two. Lightly-toasted Amrod.

The Seven Trials of Fingon the Valiant, chapter 6 by me and @melestasflight (T, ~2k). Something lighter! The twins seduce Fingon.

Art

There is actually a pretty rich array of fanart of Amrod and Amras. Here are just a few of my favourites.

Amras and Amrod by @wisesnail

Amras and Amrod by @welcomingdisaster

Amrod threatens Elrond and Elros by @runawaymun, a chilling commission for my fic And Love Grew

Amrod by @myceliumelium

Amras and Maedhros by @redbootsindoriath

Amrod by @tabukomi

Ambarussa by @thelien-art

Ambarussa by @spvce-oddity

Maedhros, Celegorm, Amrod, Amras by @albuum

Any finally some HoMe quotes about the twins, who get so little in the published Silm.

325 [525] Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren, because of their unfulfilled oath. Damrod and Díriel resolved to win the Silmaril, if Eärendel would not give it up willingly. […] 329 [529] Here Damrod and Díriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor were there, but they were sick at heart.  From 'The Later Annals of Beleriand' in The Lost Road

"The two twins were both red-haired. Nerdanel gave them both the name Ambarussa - for they were much alike and remained so while they lived. When Fëanor begged that their names should at least be different Nerdanel looked strange, and after a while said: 'Then let one be called [Ambarto >] Umbarto, but which, time will decide."

"The twins called each other Ambarussa. The name Ambarto/Umbarto was used by [?no one]. The twins remained alike, but the elder grew darker in hair, and was more dear to his father. After childhood they [?were not to be] confused…" From 'The Shibboleth of Fëanor' in The Peoples of Middle-earth

[anti-lies]

Real Fact: The only way to be plural is by suffering severe childhood trauma according to the theory of structural dissociation

The theory of structural dissociation is currently the most accepted theory for how DID forms. Children naturally have less integrated personalities, and when someone undergoes severe trauma during childhood, it prevents their personality from fully integrating.

This theory is clearly explained in this Carrd.

As this Carrd says, there is no other way one could possibly be a system according to science.

This theory was created in 2006 by Onno van der Hart, Ellert R. S. Nijenhuis and Kathy Steele in the book The Haunted Self, and has remained the main theory for how traumatic dissociation forms for close to 20 years.

These authors are top experts in their field, and this theory clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only possible way to form dissociative parts of the personality is through trauma.

Any endos who say otherwise are faking and lying. All their so-called sources are outdated or written by themselves or are ableist.

Please, trust the science. Trust the doctors. And trust the Carrd about what those scientists and doctors say.

Anyone who would argue with the doctors who wrote made the Theory of Structural Dissociation are science deniers, no better than flat-earthers or anti-vaxxers.

Now that you've been properly informed, please reblog and share this accurate and true information so you can inform others.

And don't bother clicking underneath the cut. There's nothing important there.

Oh, you're still here?

I thought I told you to leave?

Go on. Get.

There's nothing to see here!

Oh... That.

What's that doing here?

Yeah, don't worry about that. That's just some article written by pro-endos to make it look like you can form dissociative parts of the personality without trauma.

Don't trust the pro-endos and their sources!

Oh... You saw that too, didn't you?

That the source for that happens to be the same exact people I told you to trust earlier.

Fine. Let's deal with that.

First, this says "may." That means that it isn't definitely true. And by rearranging those words, you'll realize that means it definitely isn't true according to the theory of structural dissociation.

Trust me when I say that this still supports us and that these doctors are on our side.

Second...

Endos are stupid

There. I said it.

Endos are what I call half-thinkers.

Endos will try to tell you that if someone is a valid source in one context then they need to be a valid source in all contexts to be consistent. That if you're using the theory of structural dissociation as evidence that the only way to have multiple dissociative parts with their own consciousness is through trauma or a disorder, you should acknowledge that the creators of that theory have entertained other possibilities.

But you who are reading this are smarter than any of those half-thinking endos. You're 4 times as smart as these half-thinkers. You can think double what any endo can at least. That makes you, at minimum, a double-thinker.

And as intelligent and critical double thinkers, you can understand how important context is.

In the first context, the Carrd that referenced the theory by Onno van der Hart and Ellert R. S. Nijenhuis is supporting True Science.

In the second, their actual words from their paper are going against True Science. They're stating something may exist that we know is scientifically impossible. Something we know is scientifically impossible because of what we've heard other people say about the Theory of Structural Dissociation. And that proves the creators of the theory of structural dissociation wrong!

So don't let endos use quotes like this to brainwash you. Remember that you are an intelligent and critical double thinker.

Stay smart and hold firm in your beliefs and values, and never stop double thinking!

<3

[inbabylontheywept]

The Mormon Heretic Casts a Curse

So, this is a sequel piece to The Mormon Heretic and the Leviathan. @apolloendymion requested that I write some more of the stories, and this is another one. I'm going to put a trigger warning here that the story does involve partner abuse. Not from the heretic, but just... as a detail. Also, I guess, some medical stuff that involves death. It's Old Testament shit. Take it as you will.

Mormon seminary has four separate courses about the four separate parts of their canon. It’s on a constant rotation, and my particular ordering was Old Testament, then New Testament, then Book of Mormon, then Doctrine and Covenants. 

I got the Mormon Heretic for my OT year, which is 100% the best year I could have possibly got him for. And, also, absolutely the worst, because at that time I was a very orthodox Mormon, and this guy couldn’t have fucked with my brain worse if JFK’s dad gave him an icepick and a waiver. 

At that time I had an abysmal understanding of the OT, and to call my experience with it jarring would be an understatement. I learned that Elohim is a plural word. I learned that OT God itself doesn’t deny the existence of other Gods, and in fact relished challenging them to contests. The whole experience was so insane to me that I stayed after class one day to ask the teacher how he managed to bridge the divide between the OT and the NT. They're insanely different theologies, and he really refused to mince words about it.

He listened to my concerns, and I cried a little because I was fourteen and beginning to realize that there was something fundamentally wrong with the religion I was born into, and when it was all said and done he said that tomorrow he would teach the story of how he squared away the differences between OT God and NT God. 

And he did. 

I can remember having a sense that something was strange when we arrived at the building. There was a crosswalk where the exiting teenagers would pass the entering teenagers, and normally people would discuss the lesson as they passed. The group we passed just looked shell shocked. 

I sat down. The class arrived. Heretic stood up, and went to the front of the class, and he began his tale: 

He had a little sister that got married at nineteen. She then started making visits to the hospital. 

He, like his family, assumed that she was just clumsy. He was clumsy. He’d had multiple surgeries on his shoulders and his elbows and his knees because he kept doing dumb things to himself.

She was not clumsy. Her husband was beating her. 

She got a divorce. Heretic was old when the story was being told - I think in his early sixties? - and the divorce went shockingly well for the time. Sister was not blamed, husband was ostracized from both families, and life found a way to continue in its slow way. 

Heretic was, at that point, a new teacher in the Church Education System (CES). He was trying to be a spiritual guy, and teach spiritual lessons, but he just wasn’t doing a very good job because he was really, really, murderously angry with the guy that had hurt his sister. 

Sister had moved on. Or, he thought she had, he was hardly telepathic, but he felt like she’d let go and started her life anew, and her parents had supported her, and even her in laws had supported her, and things should have been easy to let go of, but they weren’t. And every day that he tried to let go, he got more and more angry, and every day he tried to pretend he was fine he ripped the wound wider, and one day he taught a spectacularly bad lesson and came home and wanted nothing more than to kill the man that had beat his sister. He instead said a prayer. I cannot quote it verbatim, but this is very, very close to what was said. “God, I know that I must forgive to be forgiven, but I want nothing more than to see that animal choke to death on his own shit.”(I know for a fact that the choke on shit part was in it. It is not a common thing to hear a seminary teacher say “shit” in the middle of class. It is also integral to the rest of the story) If this was a book, there would’ve been an immediate result, but instead Heretic felt a strange peace, grabbed ahold of it like a lifeline, and resolved to go to therapy. Which is how he got into Jungian analysis. Finding therapy in the deep South in 1980 was pretty wild. Jump cut forward to the early 2000s. Heretic has moved on. Sister is remarried. He is at peace with the world, but he gets a call from his sisters old in-laws. 

And the in-laws say that yes, they have ostracized the abuser for the last twenty years, but they got a call from him a few hours ago to please, meet him at the hospital, because he was sick. 

And the abuser was, in fact, very sick. He’d been vomiting for days. The doctors couldn’t figure out why, but they knew that at the present rate, they were running out of time. He was going to have some kind of exploratory surgery as a hail Mary, and the guy wanted a blessing first. 

And so the family had gone to Heretic, to ask him if he would be willing to bless the man that had beat his sister. It is one thing, to feel like you have forgiven someone enough to move on, and another to wish good things upon them. But Heretic had spent years and years in therapy, and he developed on an incredibly spiritual path, and he said that yes, he would bless the man before the surgery. 

And he did. 

The surgery found that the man had a benign mass in his colon. It wasn’t spreading, but it had grown large enough to prevent food from going around it. Without an exit, things had built up back to the entrance. The man was throwing up because there was nowhere else for the shit to go. Worse, during the surgery he thrown up and some of the mix had managed to drain back into the man’s lungs. He survived the knife, but the combination of fecal matter and acid inside his lungs had created an infection that he failed to survive. He drowned in his own fluids. 

He drowned in his own shit. 

Now, at that point, the class had no idea where this was going. We were a bunch of children, hearing a story about this insane divine retribution, but the Heretic continued. 

And with tears in his eyes, he told us that God had answered his original prayer only after he had fully and truly forgiven that man. That if he’d wished death on another human being in anger, in rage, and then received it, it would have damned his soul, but that as soon as he was at peace, as soon as he could wish life and love upon the man that had wronged his kin, justice could be brought down. And be believed it, with his entire heart. He spoke about how God wants to give us what we want, but that he loves us so much that we will not give it to us until we have reached the point where it is not poison to us. We will have our revenge, but only when it is meaningless to us. When the only lesson that could be grabbed from it is that God heard us the first time, and held back out of love. Then, we will see those who had wronged us choke on their shit.  

The bell rang after that, and we left the class in a daze. When we went across the crosswalk, no one spoke a word to the students crossing the opposite way. We were all too busy thinking. 

[funnier-as-a-system]

uhm, I'm not part of a system, but I use a person in my head who can take over for me and has their own personality as a coping mechanism, and I was talking about her to my brother cause they help so much and he said that I sounded like his ex who was part of a system so I did research and I experience practically no DID symptoms. So should I stop using it as a coping mechanism? Is that bad and mean to people actually parts of systems? And if it is okay, would it be bad to use things attributed to DID? (alter, headspace, host, etc) Cause I don't wanna harm people actually part of systems and make it seem like some quirky little thing, sorry for rambling a little I get rambley when I'm anxious

I don't mean to alarm you, so please imagine me saying this with a gentle tone, but what you're describing sounds exactly like a system. A system involves having multiple beings* sharing the same body, each with their own sense of self**, and typically being able to change who has control of their shared body (or "take over" as you put it).

* These "beings" can be persons, or referred to with other terms.

** I can't tell for certain based on your ask, but based on how you said she has her own personality, I find it likely that this person in your head has her own sense of self and considers herself to be her own person, since personality is generally understood to be part of one's self.

However, it sounds to me as though you don't believe this could be a system due to some misconceptions about systems. So, let's go over them.

Firstly, you don't need to have DID, or any disorder, to be a system. While having, quote, "two or more distinct personality states" (headmates, or in the case of how you described her and likely describe yourself, persons) is required to have DID, the reverse is not true; you don't need to have DID to have two or more distinct personality states. You don't need to fit the other criteria to be a system; you'd just need to fit the other criteria to have DID. You can experience this specific symptom of DID without experiencing any other. You can be a system without having DID.

Secondly, there are plenty out there without DID (or other disorders) who are still systems "as a coping mechanism", as you put it. They are known as non-disordered traumagenic or stressgenic systems, and their systems come from needing to cope with trauma and/or stress. Sometimes, these systems are even purposely created as an active coping mechanism, but other times they occur without any conscious choice. It sounds to me as though your system could very well come from similar origins, or at the very least, help you in similar ways.

Thirdly, while "alter" is generally associated with DID, as it comes from the medical term "alternate personality state", the other terms you mentioned have origins from other parts of the system community. "Headspace" is a term used by many regardless of status of system or singlet, and "host" has more roots in spiritual systems than psychological. You are free to use whatever terms you wish so long as you make sure you understand their definitions and associations, and are comfortable using them for yourself – for example, systems with spiritual origins are less likely to use the term "alter" due to its medical connotations making many systems of this type uncomfortable, but there are others who are fine with using it for themselves. There are other community terms that people misunderstand in this same way, so don't feel bad about this.

While most people hear of systems in association with DID, DID is not the only way to be a system. You can be a system and describe yourself with system terms without having DID. And on the flip side, some folks with DID choose not to describe themselves as systems or with system terminology! It all depends on the system/person/plural in question.

I'm not going to outright tell you that you are a system. But I urge you to consider where your rejection of the idea comes from, as it seems to me that it is coming from some easy to make misunderstandings about systems in general.

In short, no, you're not being offensive, bad, or mean for being like a system (or being a system outright) without having DID. You're far from alone in that boat, in fact, so don't worry about it. If this other person is helping you, there's no need to get rid of her – in fact, I'd discourage you from doing so on the possibility that she is her own headmate, as repressing or ignoring one's system generally makes things worse. Instead, I'd recommend gently exploring the possibility of being a system, perhaps looking into the created system side of the community to see if anything resonates with you or if there are resources you would find helpful. My own system found many resources from that sub-community that we found helpful when we were first discovering our plurality, and we thought we were only traumagenic back then!

It's alright to be anxious. But I promise, the only people who would get pissed at you for using system terminology or being like a/a system without having DID are generally people you'd want to avoid anyway. If having a coping mechanism of another person in your head who can take over your body sometimes is improving your life – well, I think it'd just be hypocritical, rude, and pointless of me to tell you off for that!

Hope this helps!