#like sure it's pretty

[creativeimagination206]

Sweeney Todd

is literally one of my favorite musicals, and some of my irl friends hate when I talk about it because I do it so often (pretty sure I've drunkenly shared the plot with one of my friends like three times, rip XD)

But I'm not going to rehash the plot here because I... don't want to. Instead, I have some thoughts in general about the plot and the whole character of Sweeney Todd (and some thoughts on the whole Anthony/Joanna thing), the message of the musical, and also the 2007 adaptation (because I've watched it about five times and I keep noticing more adaptation choices).

I'd talk about the original story too, but it's not really as interesting to me. I also read it a while ago, so I probably would miss a lot of things.

One of the biggest messages of the musical is the destructive nature of revenge, how it corrupts a person and their morals and twists them until they can't even recognize their own family.

Honestly, I have so many thoughts and objections to that sort of idea, at least based on the story of Sweeney Todd. Like, without summarizing the whole musical, Sweeney was sent to a prison in Australia on a trumped up charge that (to my knowledge) isn't fully explained. The judge, a power-hungry maniac, was attracted to Sweeney's wife, Lucy, as was Beadle Bamford, and sent Sweeney away so that he could have Lucy.

Keep in mind that when Sweeney was sent away, his daughter, Joanna, was 1 year old.

After Sweeney was sent away, the judge invited Lucy to his house "because he felt bad" and instead he was hosting a masquerade party where he (and probably others) raped Lucy, with no one stepping in to help her. She subsequently tried to kill herself and ended up basically losing her mind.

If I were Sweeney, and I escaped from prison 15 years after this happened, I would absolutely want to kill the people responsible. Especially after learning the full story from Mrs. Lovett.

It's also really important to note that the only reason he starts killing other people at all is because his attempt at killing the judge is foiled and he kinda goes crazy. And it's Mrs. Lovett who encourages this. Which, and I'll talk about later, feels different in different adaptations.

Anyway! Here's the thing -- I don't condone what Sweeney does, entirely, because he does kill a lot of people, but I don't love that the musical completely condemns Sweeney and frames his need for revenge as something to be completely avoided. Like, I don't know if that says way too much about me or anything, but I can't fully blame him for wanting to kill the Judge and the Beadle. Both men did unspeakable things, unforgivable things, that they don't ever face consequences for.

Because they're rich, entitled fucks.

I feel like everyone knows the story of Sweeney Todd in the most basic sense of "he kills people and bakes them into pies" and it's such a gross simplification of the actual class struggles and morality issues that are way more complex. Not enough stories treat revenge as justified.

Except for, like, Princess Bride.

Oh also, the whole Anthony/Joanna love story? Everyone treats it as so cute and sweet and a light in the darkness of the musical, but seriously??? She doesn't know his name until halfway through the musical, and before he even shares his name with her, he says that he'll "steal her" and "even now I'm at your window." At first it feels so innocent, like love at first sight, but like... it's so stalkery.

Also, remember how I said before that Joanna was 1 when Sweeney was sent away, and he escaped 15 years later?

Yeah. Not only does Anthony want her, but so does the Judge. Like... Claude Frollo style.

But yeah, Anthony feels like such a stalker to me. Does he have pure intentions? Sure, yeah, he wants to rescue her from a terrible situation. Is it still a little weird? Yeah. The way he frames it and the lyrics of his songs just... they rub me the wrong way sometimes.

Onto the adaptations, then! Or, adaptation singular, I guess.

I don't love the 2007 Sweeney Todd movie. Have I watched it a half a dozen times? Yeah. Yes I have. Do I like it? A little, I guess. It just feels like it drains the entire spirit of the musical. Eliminating the chorus/ensemble songs makes it feel like they were trying to take the musical out of the movie. You know what I mean? Like they were trying to erase the fact that it was a musical and cram it into a movie format. Although, I will admit, there were some cool cinematic changes made during transition music that worked really well.

Another thing I do like is that they actually had Toby played by a kid. I understand why they don't usually do that, but it was a nice reminder that Toby is meant to be young.

As much as the casting of Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter seems like it would be a good fit for Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett... I feel like they just don't commit to the bit enough. Bonham-Carter's Mrs. Lovett just isn't unhinged enough. And yeah, I am biased toward Angela Lansbury's portrayal, and I guess it is kinda cute to see the compassion Bonham-Carter's Mrs. Lovett has for Toby, but like... I dunno, I just feel like she's not crazy enough. Maybe it's just me, but her going into the whole "we should bake people into pies" doesn't feel as natural, because she doesn't start as insane. Lansbury's Mrs. Lovett is just... superb, I love her.

I feel like they committed too hard to the aesthetics of the era and not enough to the actual just... content of the characters. Also, they do cut out so much of the fucked up stuff, which makes sense, but also it's already rated R, so why not just leave it in? Y'know? Like, they took out the line about how old Joanna was when Sweeney was sent away to... avoid the pedophilia that the Judge displays in the original musical? For why? They also erase the desire the Beadle has for Lucy too? Not that it was a hugely important part of the musical, but like... why cut out lines like that? The song still exists, but the lines are changed or erased. There are a bunch of songs that are shortened.

And like, sure, time considerations are a huge thing. I get that movies have time constraints. It just feels so pointless to cut out some of these things. The movie is barely over two hours, like they could have kept some things in.

Anyway, if you're gonna watch a version of Sweeney Todd, go watch the 1982 film with George Hearn and Angela Lansbury. I prefer Len Cariou's singing voice, but I haven't been able to find a recording of the original original musical with him and Lansbury, so the 1982 film is the closest I've come (and yes I've watched that one about four times too).

Till next week, folks! Sorry this one's a little late -- the past few days have been rough, and I also scheduled the poll to go out way too late, so there's that.

If you made it this far, drop a knife emoji in the chat/tags, and thanks for listening! I could honestly probably keep rambling, but I'm not going to because I've been typing this out for like an hour and a half XD

[definitelysome1]

Tim: do you guys ever think about the fact that we’ve all hated someone here at one point?

Jason: what the hell are you talking about?

Tim: well, Dick you hated Jason when he first became Robin, right?

Dick: uhh, yeah I guess?

Tim: and Jason, you hated me when you came back from the dead.

Jason: I mean sure. I mostly hated B for replacing me and I took it out on you. But sure

Tim: I hated Damian when he first became Robin and he hated me

Damian: hm

Dick:I guess I see where you’re going, but what about Duke? He’s out of the loop isn’t he?

Tim: no. He hated you.

Dick: WHAT? You hated me Duke? Why???

Duke: you’re a cop dude… you know I hate cops

Dick: oh yeah i totally forgot that

Jason: HA! Get wrecked goldie

[kawareo]

My only new year's resolution is to leave more comments on AO3

[roguekaiju]

[technically-human]

First meeting

[sewaryka]

seeing it through

[noodles-and-tea]

Just some more thoughts on that jayvik dbh au

[mabbbish]

s9 noodles and leftovers

[ifartconfetti]

Hello neurodivergent people. I was wondering if I'm just weird or it is common to not being able to learn certain motoric skills at the same time as my peers and learned them MUCH later

[pinkravat-art]

i cannot keep my identity secret anymore. I am harrier du bois

[moosethewriter]

"Death first to vultures and scavengers" is such a hard line I wish that there were scenarios where I could use it in my day to day life without eventually having to explain that the quote was said by a scrawny teenaged(?) nun in response to what is essentially a dick measuring contest run by a bunch of idiots who have no business being unsupervised for that long anyways.

[chloesimaginationthings]

The secret ending in FNAF into the pit..

[arielluva]

midsummer’s night dream redraw/study/whatever but its utenanthy

original reference under cut

[fanaticalthings]

While I do find it funny that henchmen in Gotham probably warn each other about the Red Hood because he's a bat who will actually kill you. I think it would be better if Jason was actually seen as some sort of savior or idol to like 90% of the goons scattered around Gotham. Doesn't matter who they work for, they all know Jason, former crime-lord that took over majority of Gotham's underground in one night.

---

Jason, years after the events of UTRH, now fighting crime alongside the batfam, except every goon he runs into immediately recognizes him, stops fighting, and starts begging.

the first time it happens, Jason assumes they're begging for their lives only to hear them begging for him to return to the crime lord business so they can work for him and not Gotham's current money-stingy, abusive rogues (Black Mask lol)

---

Jason showing up to patrol as backup for Dick in an overrun warehouse full of Two-Face's henchmen and as Jason's about to interfere, one of the men stops dead in their tracks and stares really hard at Jason until:

Goon: Oh my God, boss, is that you?

Jason, pulling out his guns, about to shoot:

Goon: Mr. Hood, sir???

Jason, halfway about to pull the trigger: Wait a min–Jeremy? Oh wow, it's been ages! How's the wife?

Goon (Jeremy): Oh my God it IS you, holy shit where have you BEEN? Me and the guys miss you, man!

Dick, with a knife at his throat: What is happening right now

Jason: Ahh, well, crime-lording just wasn't fitting in on the daily schedule. Tryna turn over a new leaf and all that

Goon (Jeremy): Aw, that's disappointing. We really liked working for you, right guys?

[Chorus of enthusiastic "YEAHS" from the rest of the henchmen (even the one holding Dick at knifepoint)]

Goon (Jeremy): Well, anyways, I can't beat you up knowing you're my old boss! You gave us the best health benefits! We'll just let you take the evidence and leave.

Jason: Aw, thanks guys :)

---

And that's why 95% percent of Jason's missions in Gotham end in success. Not because he's willing to kill people or because rogues are terrified of him, but because 90% of the rogues' henchmen once worked for Jason and fuckin love him lol.

[ekingston]

does anyone know wtf word-stream.com is or where to send them a takedown request? i just found a bunch of fics, including my own, hosted on this AI slop site—apparently offering what I assume are AI-generated audiobook versions & (equally AI-generated) ratings and reviews. i can’t take a closer look without signing up, which, no thank you, but it looks like they’re hosting the full fics and are peddling a paid subscription for the trouble of hosting them. can someone more knowledgeable than me explain what our options are in this situation?

[strangefa11]

now jon gets to be evil too >:3

edit: some minor colour adjustments and stuff :P