#like most of the terms we use as a community made by endos

[the-alarm-system]

SYSTEMPUNK

Systempunk: A term or Subculture surrounding the liberation of plurals and the critique of psychiatry. We're outspoken on how the psych community mistreats us and how we will force the breaking of the chains that continuously fakeclaim or harm us whenever we do something singlets/psychiatrist do not like. We have been silenced and told that if we are open, it is a sign of us lying. We have been forced to follow the strict guidelines of the dsm5 in order to avoid being told that our experiences are false. We have been forced into psychiatric wards and abused because we are not singlet. We have been the face of the liars for too long, plural liberation is something we must push. The future is plural.

ANTI ENDOS AND RADQUEERS DO NOT TOUCH.

Meaning of the flag:

Brown and Black: The POC-bodied systems who are put down by both the community and the society around them. POC-bodied systems who have had their diagnosis's rejected due to their race. POC-bodied systems who have a cultural origin or connection and are hurt because of it. POC-bodied systems who are appropriated by other systems and are not listened to. POC-bodied systems who are hurt by the white dominated psychiatric system. POC-bodied systems who deserve to be heard and understood.

Purple stripe: Endogenic Solidarity, allyship, love, liberation. Endogenic systems are continuously harmed by antis who remain uncritical of psychiatry, are against the liberation of plurals, and deny a plural future in order to push singlethood onto others. Endogenic systems are also used in a lot of fakeclaiming content made by singlets and psychiatrist despite the research that supports their existence. It's because singlet society hates plurals and hates any form of existence we have. Love your endogenic siblings. They are the diverse experiences of plurality, they have helped us through so much.

Yellow Stripe: Disordered and traumagenic system solidarity and liberation. Disordered systems are horribly abused by the psych system, we make up most of those hospitalized and we are put down as too crazy to make our own decisions. Even if our existence is from trauma or a disorder, we shouldn't be forced into a singlet cure, we deserve autonomy.

Pink stripe: Abolition of psychiatric wards used to abuse us, hide us away, and silence us. Our autonomy is stolen from them, we deserve resources that help us instead of force us into a place that fucking hates us.

White stripe: Psych-critical beliefs or Anti-psych beliefs, despite their differences we still stand together against the harms of the psychiatric system. ACAB included in this.

Barbed wire: Anti-fakeclaim culture, systems deserve to be believed. Pro-plural protection. Protect another no matter your beliefs, cops and psych wards fucking hate us and want us dead, protect those you love. protect the closeted, protect all systems.

Fangs: Fight for your existence, be loud about it, write essays, make art, do whatever you can. Force plural liberation down the throats of singlets. Force the future to be plural.

Ampersand: PLURAL PRIDE, PLURAL ACCEPTANCE, PLURAL LIBERATION, PLURAL HISTORY, PLURAL FUTURE

[genderqueerdykes]

We're appreciating these pro-endo posts as an endogenic, especially the fact you account for traumatized endogenics (we at least notice "usually" and other such words in a lot of posts, and were taught at a young age how to analyze shit because of being autistic) so like...thanks. :)

Hopefully y'all are okay, anti-endos are really showing their asses this time in your asks. And we hope everyone else realizes they have always been that bigoted.

hey of course, thanks for sending this ask!

yeah i don't know why people don't understand that endogenic systems can... also have trauma. like. endogenic doesn't mean 100% free from trauma. anyone can have trauma. trauma doesn't always manifest in the most extreme forms possible like dissociative disorders. like i cannot stress enough that dissociative disorders are a very specific kind of plurality, and should NOT be used as a metric to gauge whether or not someone's plural experience is legitimate or not. the diagnostic criteria for dissociative disorders is so painfully restrictive that a lot of people who probably do have a dissociative disorder don't get the diagnosis because it's so fucking specific

and again, i just want to stress that endogenic systems literally are not hurting anyone. you are not spitting in my face or talking over me as a system with DID. you are being respectful by using a term that suits your experience way better. like idk how that is offensive to people. endogenic systems developed a term to express a specific type of plurality. that's not trying to mock or ape on dissociative plurality. it's not an attempt to talk over dissociatives. it's creating an entirely new conversation that needs to be had

people getting upset about endogenic systems are creating mountains out of mole hills. it is quite literally a nothing burger of a problem. there IS no problem. nothing wrong is even happening. like i cannot overstate how fucking annoying it is when other dissociatives decide its time to get on their high horses and act as if they're suddenly experts on psychology and mental health. like it really pisses me off when other plurals with dissociative disorders decide the entire plural community is about them. the dissociative disorder communities are about plurals with dissociative disorders. specifically. you can still occupy spaces made for people with DID, OSDD and so on and leave endogenics alone and the world will keep turning. the sun will rise tomorrow regardless.

learn to mind your own goddamn business if you can't respect that other people experience the world differently than you do. maybe, just maybe, the dissociatives who are intentionally going out of their way to mock and harass endogenic systems are the fucking problem, here. you don't get to be a fucking bully just because you have trauma. you don't get to attack and hurt people who haven't hurt you just because you were abused. that's literally fucking perpetuating the cycle of abuse. if you think to yourself that because you are traumatized, that it's okay to take your anger out on people who have no trauma, you seriously need to reassess your life. what does that do for you? temporary catharsis? a rush of dopamine that lasts mere seconds? chasing the high of harassing strangers will not undo what was done to you in the past.

as a dissociative- i only understand what dissociative plurality is like. i do not understand other forms of plurality. and you know what? i don't find the fact that other types of plurality existing offensive to me. it's just not. i've been very close friends with so many endogenic, spiritual, natural, etc. systems out there over the years. i have never found it offensive for anyone to say "oh hey i'm plural too!" and then explain a different plural experience than the one i have. thats why the term plural even exists, because it encompasses a broad range of plural experiences, not just dissociative ones.

like, to the dissociatives who are pissed off that endos exist: literally stay in dissociative disorder-centric spaces and tags. they're right there. you HAVE a community that you can interact with who understand exactly what you're going through. if it offends you that you find a VARIETY of plural experiences in the general plural community- that community isn't for you. like seriously. if it offends you that deeply that other types of plurality exist- the general plural community is not for you. it's literally not made for you if you can't except that numerous types of plurality exist. you have spaces you can occupy that ARE made 100% for people just like you. you can quite literally stay in spaces made for dissociative plurals only. like. you can do that. that's an option. and you can stop bullying other people out of spaces that they rightfully belong in.

trauma is never excuse to be a fucking jackass. it's perpetuating the cycle of abuse. that's nothing to be proud of. break the cycle. stop abusing people just because you were abused.

[shattered-system]

The “Redefinition” of Systempunk

Updated version!

We're not typically an essay kind of blog, but there's something l've been turning over in my mind since l've seen it.

I have the post pulled up now actually, and about 11 hours ago @/the-alarm-system "recoined" (stole) the term systempunk in a long post, as well as designed a flag with its own meaning and I want to sort through some of it.

I also have a few personal pet peeves about their flag design, given that it's color palette clashes and the flag is way too busy. I don't expect it to spread far given that it violates several rules of good design (saying this as someone who has been to school for graphic design.)

I will not post it here, because I don't care to spread it any more than this post already may.

Their flag slightly predates my own version of the systempunk flag, but given that theirs was created for a separate concept with a stolen name, I maintain that we were the first.

We begin with their definition of systempunk.

“A term or Subculture surrounding the liberation of plurals and the critique of psychiatry."

First issue lies here. Both the destigmitization of dissociative disorders and critique of the psych field are extremely important discussions to have!

But they are separate discussions. There is absolutely overlap, but combining the two here is kind of shooting yourself in the foot, because then the conversation in that tag will be disorganized.

Have a systempunk movement AND an anti-psych or psych-critical movement. That way people can easily find the relevant discussions and terms.

This is followed up with a bit about the harm the psychiatric field has caused (not delving into that as that's not what this blog is about) and then circle back onto "the future is plural."

This is not one of the instances where OP means it in the "the future is destigmitization" sense, as they are pro endo. (On a side note, even ignoring the endo use of the phrase-- if I need to read about a slogan to understand the meaning of the slogan, it's a bad slogan. The point of a slogan is to communicate a concept quickly.)

The flag has black and brown stripes akin to the progress flag to represent systems of color, which is the only part of the design we have no critique for, but are describing anyway just as a bit of information.

The purple stripe stands for:

“Endo solidarity... endogenic systems are continuously harmed by antis who remain uncritical of psychiatry."

Once again, we are mixing two expansive concepts into one term.

The term anti-endo doesn't imply a position one way or the other on the psychiatry discussion.

Some anti-endos swear by the DSM5, others don't. Anti-endo is a term that means anti-endo/ endo-critical. That is all it means.

There is a difference between holding the DSM as the complete authority on mental illness and saying that a trauma disorder is caused by trauma.

I'm not sure if OP knows that and is choosing to cast anti-endos in a bad light, or legitimately confused. However, OP is a syscourse blog who is on a lot of blocklists and is spammy in the tags, and has likely been blocked by anyone who isn't also out looking to pick immature fights. (This is a system who made a post in all caps calling for an endo raid on #systempunk.)

Continuing directly from the last quote:

“[Antis] are against the liberation of plurals and deny a plural future in order to push singlethood onto others."

It's possible OP is referring to final fusion, which the anti-endo community is not a monolith on either. Most people we've interacted with are supporters of functional multiplicity (including ourselves.)

Most likely however, they mean that anti-endos "push singlethood" by telling endogenics that they can't have a trauma disorder without trauma.

And I could go into a whole tirade about that, but dozens of systems have done it before and I doubt any pro-endos have gotten this far. I am writing this for the anti-endo and on-the-fence audiences.

Visit @antimisinfo's helpful masterpost for a list of legitimate sources.

OP seems to believe that by “forcing” this singlethood, we are contributing directly to the oppression of systems. Hypocritically, OP themselves are contributing directly to the oppression of trauma victims.

Endogenics are not part of the "diverse experiences of plurality” (we are diverse, but united in origin) given that they don't exist. And if they did, they would have such a fundamentally different experience than trauma-formed systems that both groups would need separate language and tags to have space to themselves.

And endos already have a well-established punk tag for themselves. It seems they won't be happy until they chase trauma victims out of every space they create for themselves and steal every term. They've already stolen even the medical terminology used for CDDs.

The yellow stripe of the flag is meant to represent those with actual CDDs. Once again, psych stuff is brought up. However, I do agree with OP that those who do not want final fusion should not be pushed into it.

The pink and white stripes of the flag are entirely dedicated to anti-psych points. I think this would do wonderfully on it's own flag. But bringing the large range of discussion the anti-psych movement encompasses and the large range of discussion the CDD community has into the same tags is going to make it monumentally difficult to find the conversations you're wanting to have, and weaken both communities considerably.

There is a line of barbed wire across the flag that is partially for the same anti-psych movement as well as in favor of protecting and defending endogenic "identities." The ampersand stands for plurality.

There are fangs on the flag as well, encouraging systems to be loud and proud about their existence. And I agree that systems should make themselves known. However, endogenic systems don't exist, and their promotion will continue to drag us down.

I have read testimonies about traumagenic (real) systems being fakeclaimed or denied treatment by healthcare experts who, through exposure to endos, came to the conclusion CDDs are fake entirely.

Real systems seeking treatment and help after a lifetime of horrific abuse are being denied care.

Not to mention the setback of social acceptance by endos.

“Force plural liberation down the throats of others. Force the future to be plural."

[sysmedsaresexist]

To the anon asking about my username...

There's a bit of confusion here, I'm going to answer many of your questions but I may not post the ask itself, hopefully it'll make sense :)

When I started my blog I was heavily anti endo and I specifically posted bad pro/endo takes, debunking or just laughing. To this day, most of it is still pretty hilarious. I wasn't focused on cringe, but totally crazy, out there claims that made zero sense and were flat out wrong. Check out my tags #shit endos say, #shit singlets say, and my newest tag, #shit anti endos say, I hope you have a laugh at a couple of them.

In my pinned post, you'll see the thing that started it all. A pro endo saying that sysmeds are sexist.

I would also like to know how they came to that conclusion. I'm right there with you. Also like you, I still have many issues with the pro/endo community. I believe CDDs are trauma based disorders. I post research pretty much weekly about it (check out #debunk and #research). I think endogenic plurality and CDDs are completely different things.

And you know what, my pro endo friends support me. We're all learning. I'm kind with my opinion, I'm open to talking about it, we debate, we share resources, we change our views and adjust based on new info.

This blog corrects misinformation from both sides, now. Some of it is worse than others. Antis can and do spread just as much misinformation as pro/endos.

What I would encourage you to do is start with the multiple selves theory. It actually developed right alongside Freud's theories on hysteria (which included early versions of CDDs at the time), and if Freud hadn't been such a perv, it might actually be much more well-known. It's a nonpathological theory on consciousness and philosophy. People have been describing this phenomenon for a very long time, "endogenic" is just the newest term for it. Here's a couple examples.

2015 - at any given moment in time, one or another of our subselves is in control and determines how we think and act.

1987

2012 - this one has so many links to other people talking about this theory

2023 - These results suggest that the normative principles by which agents have adapted to complex changing environments may also explain why humans have long been described as consisting of “multiple selves.”

2020

2010

Like I said, though, you can find this stuff as far back as the 50s with ease, anything older might take a bit more digging, but it's not a small or new theory.

I think an overlap in language has created a lot of confusion, but it's really not out of the realm of possibility for people to be more in tune with these parts of themselves. It's been documented for over a century outside of psychology, in other areas of research-- anthropology, philosophy.

I'm going to be honest, I don't think a single one of the headmate sale blogs are real. I think they're antis trying to start shit. Like maybe one out of every ten is actually someone misguided behind the screen.

Even CDD systems still incorrectly believe in core theory, endogenics picked it up from us and don't know any better. System resets aren't real, but there are real experiences that can FEEL like a reset-- try being patient and educating people. Ignore the others, because some people just can't be helped, and you're better off spending your time spreading good, accurate posts than arguing with people who don't want to learn anything.

I forget what I was saying.

Anyways, I'm a pro endo sysmed.

I hope you'll stick around and see what's going on.

[sophieinwonderland]

So, singlet here, been on tumblr for a while but only started to join plural spaces when a friend told me they were plural and now I am trying to learn more. Sadly, the first plural creator I found was Aspen and now I’m trying to unlearn all the endo hate I’ve learned in the past month. If you don’t mind, could you tell me what an endo actually is? Whenever I asked them they just told me what I now know to be lies.

Sure! Thanks for reaching out and being open-minded!

In its most simple form, an endogenic system is a system who is plural for reasons other than trauma.

These include created systems, systems who have been plural as long as they can remember, and spontaneous systems who become plural without explanation. And any of these can have spiritual or psychological views on their system. The plural umbrella is inclusive to any plurals regardless of origin.

Here is what we know:

Plurality is old and everywhere: Throughout history, in cultures around the globe, plurality has existed in the form of possession states or communing with spirits or similar phenomena.

Many of the above experiences have been studied, and psychiatrists agree that they generally aren't aversive and shouldn't be considered a mental disorder. There are specific exceptions carved out stating that non-aversive plurality shouldn't be diagnosed as a disorder.

The invention of the internet and ability to connect with other plurals without fear of persecution led to the creation of the first inclusive plural communities online, shared by anyone who was multiple in one body for any reason.

At the time, the term "natural multiples" was used to refer to what we now call endogenic systems. The community replaced the term with "endogenic" around 2014.

Most of the resources used by the modern plural community came out of the inclusive side of the community. "Headmate" was a non-medical alternative to "alter." "Plural" was coined as a non-medical alternative to "multiple" which was associated with "multiple personality disorder" at the time. Fictives and factives both date back to the soulbonder community. And resources like Pluralkit and Simply Plural were made by endos.

What we don't know:

Scientific research into endogenic systems is still in its infancy. And though it indisputably exists, we don't know exactly what causes it... but we also don't know what causes someone to be a singlet...

Our brain is estimated to have 86 billion neurons with over 100 trillion synapses. We don’t understand what make all of these create one single personality.

The theory of structural dissociation suggests that children start with a less integrated personality that integrates over time. But that opens the door to ask, does this integration occur naturally due to biological factors, or is it from sociological and environmental pressure?

It seems possible to me that different environments or genetic factors could lead to certain humans just integrating into multiple people instead of one. This would explain systems who report being plural since birth.

For created systems, one hypothesis could be that it might involve a form of hypnosis. Some doctors have long believed hypnosis might involve dissociated parts, and Dr Samuel Veisseire and Michael Lifshitz, who have studied tulpamancy closely, believe the practices tulpamancers use to create tulpas might be inherently hypnotic.

Stanford University is doing a neurological study into tulpamancers, and I'm excited to see the results of that, but we aren't sure when that study is going to be complete. And that's likely just the first of many, and though it will be another piece of the puzzle, it certainly won't answer our most pressing questions for how this works. But I, for one, can't wait to learn more! 😁

[purple-space-aliens]

I hope you learn to listen to science. I genuinely wholeheartedly hope that your experience hasn't harmed you if you truly are a system. Trauma is tough, I hope you find peace.

Endos may be scientifically impossible, and the endo community has done horrible things to the system community as a whole, but I truly do hope you are okay, regardless of being horribly misinformed.

omg our first hate ask! our blog is big enough for that, yippee! /s

violet here! okay, so normally i wouldn’t respond to this kind of thing very intensely because honestly we don’t like getting into syscourse much. however, this is a good time and place to put our stance on things, as well as answer this ask anyways. (everything is going below the cut now since it is a bit long)

okay so first of all, i wanna address the fact that you are implying that we’ve had trauma, and this isn’t really true. sure we’ve had a few scary events and whatnot from when we were younger, but we don’t really have trauma. our family is and was, for the most part, kind and caring as well, and hasn’t informed us of any traumatic events.

back when we thought we were traumagenic, as it was the only type of system we had known of at the time, we were stumped on one thing. where our trauma was. and believe me when i say we dug and dug and dug, trying to find anything that would be traumatic. it became a major life focus, made us paranoid, and made us feel horrible that we hadn’t found anything. we tried to force memories that didn’t exist. starting becoming scared of things that had never happened to us. tried to reason that fictive exomemories must be telling us something about our past trauma. and yet, we found nothing.

so, despite having no trauma whatsoever, we still felt all of these things. we were scared, and felt horribly like frauds. during therapy sessions about plurality, we shared almost nothing because we were scared that because we couldn’t find our trauma, that we couldn’t be real. we were told by both the therapist and our mom that our headmates were not real. cyan started to push us away in fear. headmates began to hide themselves away too. even our happy littles, who are the whole reason we know we’re plural, hid. the only two people near the front were cyan and purple. both of them were screaming and crying at each other. cyan told purple to go away because e “wasn’t real”. purple broke, and after months of feeling so happy together, we broke apart, feeling more empty than before.

and yet, the headmates never really left. we continued to show up, even though many of us were in denial about being real. we are still there, a long time after being told we didn’t exist. we still experience changes in who controls the body, contrasting likes and dislikes, very different personalities from each other. we were still there.

so, we eventually stumbled onto the term endogenic, and things just kind of clicked. hearing that we are a system, even though it wasn’t caused by trauma was life changing. finally, we started to feel whole, we started to feel like we understood and belonged. we realized that we are still real, and much more real than we were when we were digging for trauma that didn’t exist. that’s how we know we’re real. we know our own experiences, and one person telling us that we’re “scientifically impossible” and doing “horrible things to the system community” isn’t going to change that fact that we exist.

however, i’m not done yet. you happened to say that endos are “scientifically impossible” and doing “horrible things to the system community”, as previously mentioned. however, these claims aren’t really very true.

firstly, i would love if you could provide me some actual evidence that endogenic systems can’t exist, since you are the one making such a claim. secondly, some evidence for endos being harmful would also be great as well.

thing number one, here is an article that is commonly brought up in endo related debates that i could not leave out. i suggest you check it out and give it a good read. since it is a source that mostly speaks for itself, i will simply let you read the many pages worth of information on endogenic systems.

in addition to that, here is another article i found on my own time, and while it is not particularly about endogenic systems, i felt it was informative regardless. i would like to preface this by saying i am not exact a fan of this article, as there were some parts that i didn’t like how it was written and what not, but it is a third person perspective, neutral group, with no bias. if i am reading it correctly (which i really do hope i am, though sometimes i do fail on my reading comprehension), the article is about the ties in plurality and other identities, as well as making comparisons in traumagenic plurality versus other pluralities, tulpas and endos. primarily, the comparison section is about tulpas and traumagenic, and i am not well educated on those, so i will be leaving that part at that. what i’m primarily here to call out is the way it describes how similar the experiences and symptoms are noted from both traumagenic systems and nontraumagenic systems, as well as the segments where it states that many traumagenic systems may not meet all the criteria’s for a diagnosis. i bring this up because it seems as if some anti endos think that to be plural you MUST fit all of the diagnostic criteria AND be traumagenic, when this does not appear to be true. the DSM is NOT a holy text, and scientists discover new things quite frequently.

for you last point, i’m a bit confused on where you’re getting that the endo community has “done horrible things to the system community as a whole”. i have never seen that before, and that is an incredibly bold claim to make without presenting any evidence of this happening. since i’m not exactly sure what you are talking about, or what you mean by “horrible things”, i will just says that endos are not harming the plural community. for starters, “plural” is a term that INCLUDES endos, and i believe it was MADE for this purpose (however i currently cannot find the source for this information, i have seen it many times). so, by pushing endos away, the PLURAL community is being harmed. i since i assume you are equating traumagenic to DID/OSDD (which i believe are not the same, but i am unsure of where any sources on that are either), i would also like to inform you that i have NEVER seen an endogenic system claim to have DID or OSDD. endogenic systems are NOT inherently claiming to be a disordered system. we are NOT taking away from traumagenic systems.

that being said, i would LOVE to inform you that we ARE okay, and are doing quite well as we are becoming informed on endogenic systems. thank you for your time to anyone who read this!

also please let me know if i said anything stupid, or messed up! i have no idea if i’m doing this right at all! i’ve never really done syscourse like this before so this is a first! (and please let me know if the second source is bad, since i bet someone is much better at reading and breaking down those types of studies and articles)

[x-other-souled-x]

No. Nope.

Using language that systems may also use in a medical setting to describe their expereinces and go through treatment is not appropriation. Full stop.

There is no culture being exploited, unless you want to argue that the medical-industrial complex is a closed culture somehow.

Which I have definitely seen posts saying something dangerously close to this, and I urge you to not base your entire sense of self on the guys making money off of you. Even if they're helping, there's intentional siphoning of money from poor patients.

Secondly, language is a tool used to communicate. Words exist as "bodies" to a concept, and sometimes this concept is interpreted a little differently from person to person. There are a lot of words that mean several different things depending on the context. The most important thing is the setting which they're used in. A good ammount of medical terms are also words that are used by laymen in other contexts, meaning something different.

A system is a group of interrelated parts working together as a whole.

An Operating System (OS) is a system of code and software that tells the hardware what to do in order to make your computer run. There's agricultural systems, government systems, the solar system itself. Are these things appropriating the medical-industrial complex by existing as parts that make one whole thing work?

And before anyone splits hairs about this, I am not equating human life to computers or the government. These are examples of things that are literally defined AS SYSTEMS. The main takeaway you should be having here is that system is a broad term with many many applications outside of the medical-industrial complex. That one institution does not own the word nor the concept of being multiple parts (headmates/alters/whatever) working together.

The concept still exists and system still is a word outside of a medical context.

In other words, people would have eventually came to the conclusion of calling themselves systems regardless of if it was used in a medical context or not. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together, to see parallels in concepts and expereinces and decide those words work just fine. Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.

This is a post online, made by a trauma-formed system. I'm not going to have the time and foresight to cover every little nuance, and I don't care to be pedantic and pick apart small case instances. At the end of the day, this does not actually matter to how I live my life, how I get therapy, how we as a system have to work together. Endos using terms that are also used in a medical setting (but also used outside of medical settings) is not harmful to me in any way. And quite frankly, I think anti-endo witchunting has done more damage to us as a system trying to figure out how to navigate life than any endo friendly post has. I'm not arguing semantics, I'm going to go live my life and go outside and do my job and pay my bills like everyone else.

All this discourse around stealing terms and what you can and can't call yourself is so seriously unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You all sound so comfy and privileged to be worried about something so trivial as a word or three that is used in multiple contexts accross human language.

[rainberry-stardust]

inspired by that post asking the plural community to share their personal experiences, here's a bunch of questions inspired by various system ask games that i'll be answering!

do you have a system name?

technically yes. i use rainberry, the name of a zayn malik song, as a system name online. i also have a personal system name i've been attached to for years, but i won't be sharing it here. i don't go by my system name typically, and i use it more as an online username than anything else.

irl i have 2 names people typically know me by, both the names of frequent fronters. i eventually plan to legally change my name to those 2 names as a first and middle name.

what is your alter headcount?

i have around 8 DID parts, and 4 endogenic alters. so 12-ish in total.

what are your system's origins?

traumagenic first and foremost, as i have DID. i also have some endogenic alters i specifically coined the term reveromantigenic for. my reveromantigenic alters formed unintentionally as thoughtforms, specifically from me daydreaming about fictional ships to fall asleep.

my DID parts are ever-present whether i want them to be or not, and i can somewhat-clearly trace them back to traumas in my past and i can see what trauma responses they are made of. my endogenic alters on the other hand, they're purely positive and don't have any negative or harmful aspects to them. they don't relate to my trauma in any way, and act as sentient comfort characters more than anything.

what terms do you use to describe yourself?

i gravitate towards 'parts' for my DID parts, and 'alters' for my endogenic alters. i do refer to myself as a system sometimes, but typically i call myself a person with DID or a person with parts. i rarely call myself plural, the word icks me for purely syllabic reasons.

i tend to use i/me language as well, unless i feel like clarifying we/us is necessary to make sense.

how did you discover your system?

i was 15 and somebody in a fandom discord i ran asked me to add pluralkit to the server for systems. i didn't know what a system was, so they explained to me what DID is in basic terms. i wanted to support them, so i started looking into DID and systems, and i noticed a lot of links leading to tumblr.

i made a tumblr account so i could read all the posts google was linking me, and discovered i was a system too. i originally thought i was traumaendo i believe, before i got sucked into sysmedicalism and considered myself an OSDD system for i think a year, eventually landing on DID, and now as of recent labelling myself mixed origins due to my thoughtforms.

have your views on plurality changed over time?

yes! as i said, i started off as pro-endo, but i got sucked into sysmedicalism for quite a few years. i had endogenic thoughtform alters while i was anti-endo, ironically enough, i just mislabelled them and tried to force them into traumagenic boxes.

do you have an innerworld?

nope. i have aphantasia, so i don't visualize at all. i have a strong internal monologue and i tend to think in audible words more than anything else. my parts/alters pick faceclaims based on the vague vibes they have of their appearances, and via a lot of trial and error.

how do your levels of distinction range?

my DID parts are covert, as i have the typical covert version of DID. they're distinct enough that i can sometimes tell what part is fronting, and some close friends can occasionally guess accurately, but most of the distinction isn't in personality or outward characteristics.

most of my part distinction, for the traumagenic ones, is in trauma responses, behaviors, and views on the world. those trauma-influenced traits are what show through the strongest.

meanwhile my endogenic alters are mainly distinct in personality, and strongly identifying as their sources. that, and they're all british for some reason except for one. coincidences lol.

what are your fronting patterns like?

my DID parts are situationally triggered out. they're each suited for different types of situations, be it potential traumatization, physical hardship, a work environment, a safe environment, ect. their roles reflect this a lot, too. if i feel threatened, physically or emotionally, i know my primary protector is going to be triggered out. if i feel safe and comfortable, there's a good chance my unethical caretaker is going to front.

my endogenic alters are more intentionally positive triggered out, either by focusing on their sources and unintentionally daydreaming about them (as is my habit to help me fall asleep), or by choosing to act like them until they front (my attempt at willogenesis lol, they may have gained sentience by accident but i intend to purposefully keep them around)

in general i tend to switch multiple times a day, if i had to guess probably 3-6 times a day. my situational needs vary frequently throughout my average day, triggering out various parts for various reasons.

do you experience amnesia? how so?

i do. i'm monoconcious, but i experience what i consider to be blackout amnesia in the sense i lose entire chunks of recent time. my amnesia isn't really tied to switching, though. my parts/alters don't have their own individual memories, like you might see in the movies.

my amnesia is collective; i lose the majority of every single day, conversations and situations, everything unless i write it down or recite it until memorized. i tend to only retain vague outlines of my most recent day, such as "i know i went to work yesterday and i worked on my fanfic, but i cant remember anything specific beyond that."

and that's only for my most recent day. the day before yesterday is a mystery to me. unless it's written down or i'm somehow reminded of a specific notable event by an outside party, i don't retain it.

what are your thoughts on fusion?

i want final fusion, at least for my DID parts. i'm not sure what my end goals are for my endogenic alters, as they don't really cause me distress. i want to final fuse all of my DID parts because i want to stop relying on dissociation as my primary coping mechanism, i want to fully get rid of my dissociative amnesia, and i want to have a cohesive sense of identity that isn't split up by various reactions to trauma.

fusion at all, and especially final fusion, are longterm goals for me though. right now i'm focused on symptom management, building communication, and overall integration in whatever small ways i can manage it.

do you have any in-system couples?

yes, particularly my endogenic parts. because they are all reveromantigenic (formed from daydreaming about my favourite fictional ships), they are all inherently paired into relationships. because i have 4 of them right now, that means i have 2 in-sys couples.

do you have any in-system families?

yes, but this time with my DID parts. 3 of my DID parts see themselves as siblings; my primary protector being the elder brother to 2 parts that identify with being younger ages than i am physically.

my primary protector is also very similar to another part who you've probably seen here, his name is zain, he runs our sideblog @zain-syscourse. my primary protector and zain have been in some sort of strange qpr/situationship for years, i'm not sure if they've even labelled it.

how does your gender vary across the system?

i'm bigender (male/agender) overall, and i use he/they pronouns overall. many of my DID parts identify as fully male and use he/him pronouns or as nonbinary/agender with he/they pronouns, while my endogenic alters have less reality-grounded concepts of their gender such as one identifying as a cis male and another as transfemmasc despite us overall being NOWHERE near feminine- or female-aligned.

how does your sexuality vary across the system?

it honestly doesn't vary much, surprisingly. overall i identify as demiromantic demisexual and gay (boys), and that seems to ring true system-wide. none of us are attracted to girls as far as i can tell. the demi part varies, but all of us are some level of gay.

do you tend to have collective or individual hobbies/interests?

all of my interests and hobbies are collective. that's mainly comprised of writing fanfiction, syscoursing, learning about DID, and listening to music. as far as interests, right now it's just One Direction. i have ADHD, and right now 1D is my sole hyperfixation.

does anybody irl know you're a system?

yes, two people. i live with my found family slash adoptive parents, and they know i have DID. one of them can tell some of my parts apart and has clocked the current fronter multiple times before.

do you know any other systems irl?

the same person who can clock some of my parts is also a DID system. he's very supportive of me and my problems in general, and i love him.

this was really fun to do! i went for mainly collective-aimed questions, since i didn't want to get into specific parts/alters too much. at least not on this post, maybe in the future on others! if you read all this, it's your sign to go find a bunch of plurality questions to answer! share your experiences!

[fictionfolk-safehaven]

We used to be in an emote discord server. I won't name drop but they're very dog themed. This is important.

We tend to hyperfixate on servers, talking in them most of the time, getting stuck in the questions channels because we like to answer questions, etc.

So that happened in their server. We had some really bad times while fixated on and actively in this server. So we split an introject of the server

Here's where the "problem" comes in. The owner has a persona, and the introject of their server looked like a dogboy version of their persona. So we, knowing they have boundaries on not making art of their persona for personal use, find art of a dogboy to use!

And it's fine and good, we get names for the introject that are dog themed, we recolor the art a bit (double checked the artists socials and they didn't care), and they talked in the server ONCE

The owner pulls us into a ticket asking why we "deliberately" picked names similar to their own and "made" art of their persona to use

We tell them we didn't, and that alters can't control their appearance and that the names weren't chosen to purposefully mimic theirs and they MAKE US choose a new name for the alter and get mad because we have a hard time finding names and I accidentally used the word "picky" and that pissed them off. Like dude this alter is part of my brain, sorry they want a name they'll like and identify with??? And we couldn't find faceclaims that fit because we struggle to anyway-

Months later, we stopped talking in the server, stopped being hyperfixated and one day we randomly got banned for "purposefully breaking boundaries"

????????????????

Anyway, crazy syscord experience I had to share cause the poor guy is fronting and remembering it all again

- ⭐️ (trying desperately to claim this anon tag)

It's unfair that you were treated so cruelly, and I'm sorry that happened to you all. We have an AAC and use a lot of Tumblr emotes for it. We have a... lot of frustration with what little of that community we've seen, especially due to the anti endos that have endos in the DNI despite their blog being focused around accessibility of speech, making it... inaccessible to us. Because while we refuse 'genic terms, we do not allow anti's in our space nor do we plan to cross over into theirs. I'm not surprised by this sort of thing at all, sadly.

We'll add your emoji tag to the list!

-Xiao

[endopropaganda]

so what I'm hearing about SAS is that you don't like or understand nuance, you're unwilling to find out the kind of info on their blog yourself, even if those resources could benefit you and your followers, so you're deciding to just turn a blind eye to it

Is that right?

It sounds about right and I'm disappointed, SAS does more for the CDD community than most other blogs

Block me if you want, but I'm not wrong, the only reason all of you (general you to refer to the large number of newer anti blogs), is because they corrected antimisinfo for misinformation, antimisinfo called them an endo, leaked their main, and then tried to cover it up by telling everyone to block SAS

But sure, keep them blocked, keep telling all your followers to block them

As I explained in a previous post, we are conflicted on them mainly due to CROSSTAGGING. Which, as i already mentioned, causes overstimulation for us due to our autism (Aspergers, which is an outdated medical term, to be specific)

Endo neutrals are on our DNI, and if this is nuance, then we have every right to block them due to that making them endo neutral, which is stated on our DNI. We had been considering taking that off our DNI, but in light of this, fuck no, we aren't doing that.

Not once did we tell anybody to block SAS. We said WE were going to block SAS. And not because of their stance specifically, but because we have gotten almost 15 asks with conflicting ideas about SAS and want to STAY OUT OF DRAMA.

The fact that the narrative you made out of this is "Oh my god, you hate nuance" is the exact reason this blog exists. We are NOT a syscourse blog. We are a blog dedicated to pointing out logical fallacies in screenshots. How something SOUNDS and how something ACTUALLY IS are two VERY DIFFERENT things, and you cant make an opinion solely on how it sounds to you. Not only that, but your making a critical assumption without really knowing anything about us prior, So far, the only members of the system involved in this situation are me (Mocha) and Magenta. Neither of us are the headmate that runs this blog. This blog isn't run by just one person, either. So you're making an assumption about not only 3 PEOPLE who run a blog, but also an entire system's opinion on a situation. An entire system who doesn't even know this situation is happening and I can GUARANTEE you would not have anywhere near the same response as me. No. I am not going to block you, unless you send another one of these spontaneous, anger fueled hate asks. Because then, I will care even less than I do now.

I (Mocha), as a low empathy protector, do NOT give a shit what you think of my host's blog. The only thing I give a shit about is when people make assumptions without sufficient information about the topic they are making assumptions about. I will be removing anon asks for the time being. Since this situation has caused Magenta several episodes. We will not be engaging in this situation further, and if any attempts by others are made to continue to engage, it will be ignored.

Thank you and goodnight.

-Sincerely, A very petty and pissed off Mocha

extra part to this post

[radqueer-flames]

Hi all! This blog is for The Flames System.

Signoffs:

Viper -💚 (They/She/He) (16)

Mirai -🧡 (They Them) (14-22)

Rylinn -🍞🔥 (Toast/toastself) (20)

Jay/Jayden- -J (He/She) (13-19)

Jinx -🔫 (she/they) (22)

We are a traumaendo, genderfluid, bisexual system with opinions. We will not seek out antis, but do not be surprised when we fight back.

Our system is made up of 4 main fronters: Viper, Rylinn, Mirai, and Jay. We are really new to the Radqueer community and do our best to make fair, researched opinions.

Anyone is welcome here, (including antis looking to learn more about the community), unless you are here to cause drama. We are moderators in a RQ/TransID server, and we love all of you 💚, even the antis (so long as you are respectful).

We also have started coining stuff! Right now we have two MusIDs and we take requests!

Please don't mind us, since we are new we might ask questions, please don't take it as rude in any way as that isn't our intention.

Stances:

Pro-C for consenting adults.

Children cannot consent under any circumstances.

Indulging in paras through fiction/roleplay is completely valid and is the most healthy way to indulge.

proship

pro-endo

About Us!

- Punk (The subculture)

- Radqueer!!!

- Trisgroomed

- Cisautistic

- Cischronicpain

- Cisplural

- Plushparent

- Ageflux between alters

- Fictoreligion

- CitrusQueer

- Cosmiqueer

- DollQueer

- PluralPunk

- Redemptionqueer

- Strawberryqueer

- Weedqueer

- Musloadedguns

- Muschristianhate

- Transprogrammed

Our coined terms!

[discourse-by-candlelight]

(I'm not plural, but I'm in a community that has a lot of systems (alterhumanity) and I never understood one thing about syscourse, I would like to ask you because I want to better know other members of the community. )

How different are endo systems from transid stuff?

Additionally: can you be an endo system who didnt self diagnose? Im asking because I saw a self-dx blog that was strictly anti-endo and it made me wonder because afaik being endo is almost always self-dx'd.

I see anti endo DNI and pro endo DNI almost equally thrown around and Im just here. Not getting it at all.

You don't have to answer if you don't want to though! I just thought this would be a good place to ask because this is a syscourse blog

Hi! We'd be happy to answer these to the best of our ability. Most of this is simple once you're in the community for a time but it's easy to see how it could be difficult for an outsider to understand.

To begin, plurality is absolutely different from transid stuff. Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably from the transid community first plural community second. Like with many things transid they like to try and slot themselves and their beliefs into our communities and co-opt it for their own use (if you can't tell, we're not exactly big fans, although transids are allowed on our blogs so long as they know we're not supporters, dnis are stupid in our opinion). The plural and endogenic communities are entirely separate from that movement, however.

Plurality refers specifically to the concept of being more than one identity/person within the brain and body. Endogenic means that your plurality formed for any reason other than trauma. An important thing to keep in mind going forward is that plurality does not inherently equal a dissociative disorder, unlike what many may say against us. The entire cornerstone of the plural community is that these experiences are often non-pathological and can occur for various reasons. For example this blog is ran by the Candlelight Society, we're a tulpamantic system, meaning we used tulpamancy to shape and for the most part create our system and plurality. There's plenty of people with DID/OSDD who also use the plural label, but the label itself is for everyone who experiences a state of being more than one regardless of origin or experiences related to it. The difference between this and transid should be pretty obvious. The closest thing we can think of to an overlap is the concept of "transplural" but that's just another way of saying created system brought into our community by transids, and is for the most part considered a ridiculous term in comparison to tulpa/tulpamancer, parogenic, or created system.

Onto your other question, this one's actually kind of funny, because it implies endogenic plurality is something that's diagnosable. Endogenic plurality is, as said earlier, not pathological or even a largely medically recognized thing at all. Plurality is an opt-in label, like alterhuman. You decide whether your experiences match up with the experiences described by the plural community. For that reason saying whether plurality is something that is self diagnosed or not is a bit silly really. You don't often hear people saying they self diagnose as alterhuman, not in our experience anyways.

TLDR: we're very different from transid concepts and we're an opt in label, thus kind of always self diagnosed if that even fits at all due to our non medical nature.

Hopefully this helps put some things into context. This was pretty quickly and sloppily written so forgive any grammar mistakes. Also if you'd like to learn more about plurality, tulpamancy, or some general syscourse topics feel free to send more asks and we'll provide some sources that may be useful to you when we have the time.

Have a great day!

[system-of-a-feather]

Hi, I was wondering (from your post about questions going from anti-endo to pro-endo),

Did your entire system become pro-endo? We've been slowly going down the pro-endo path, but we still have a handful of anti-endo parts who don't seem to be changing their views at all.

How did that go for you all?

Yeah our whole system is pro-endo at this point but a lot of us swapped sides on our own time and terms. A lot of our parts were very "I really dont care and dont want to engage" or just relatively uninterested with a lean so those guys kinda just changed opinion as the more opinionated parts changed opinion

I (Riku dominant part of the brain) was one of the last parts to genuinely change our opinions cause I honestly had some pretty bad experiences with endo-adjacent communities (and felt it might be dangerous to suggest that there was value in that community which was a trauma response that is valid but harmful and I had to work through that) and am the most research loving part so it took a lot more understanding into the depth of how research works for me to look at the theory of structural dissociation properly and with nuance. Plus I was / still probably am the part that has the most catching up to do on processing the fact we are POC and our experiences with it, so going further into Buddhist practice and integration and chatting with other parts made me get a larger fuller image and that changed my view a lot

But unironically, the main thing that really pushed a lot of the system as a whole from endo-neutral (which we were for a hot minute) to loud and proud pro-endo was the good faith the endo community gave us regarding the tulpacourse topic and the genuine sway that we saw in regards to taking criticism from POC. Cause I forget who it was, I think maybe @/artisticdysfunction (I could be entirely wrong so Im not @) that commented something along the lines of "hey if we can agree and acknowledge thst its appropriative can we agree willowgenic are actually a thing" or something and XIV went "Ya know what deal, I will fully change from neutral to pro if the endogenic community can show that it can take criticism and Ill push to humor it more"

Which I (Riku dominant brain) was SUPER hesitsnt to follow along with and so I made some boundaries of not going too ham on our system account for my own comfort and in exchange Ill humor and think about the topic more but like, it was honestly really hard and uncomfortable for me at first but honestly, XIV was right and so while it was originally somewhat a transactional alliance, its very much genuine at this point

But yeah tldr it took time and each part changed views over time. Its been like a few year thing

(And to be fair, our system used to also be relatively right wing anti-SJW Shapiro fans like AGES ago so this wasnt our first team switch over time)

[syscourse-confessions]

we're multigenic, mostly traumagenic but a significant portion not, and we have extremely debilitating DID, but we're forced out of most disordered spaces for having personal beliefs about our system and not operating the same way everyone else expects of us. We have no resources, no healthy therapy, and no access to assistance now, even online. It makes us feel like we don't matter, and really goes to show how anti endos force out systems in pain that're hurting even more because what they think is "calling out endos" is actually fakeclaiming the experiences of countless disordered systems. It makes us feel like we don't belong anywhere, and drives us to thoughts of self harm, forced dormancy, or s**cide sometimes.

I don't want to force anything- I just want anti endos to think about that. It took us five years to feel dysphoria/any "negativity" from being trans, and transmeds called us fake and wrong for it. Now because I don't meet their standards of negativity and correctness, sysmeds think I'm fake and wrong as well. There's a big reason we connect the two terms. I hope you know your "community" has almost certain made traumagenic DID systems kill themselves. Does that matter to you?

.

[sysmedsaresexist]

What you're doing is incredibly brave. We really appreciate the risk you're taking sharing your journey. It's awesome to see someone so vocal and with such reach openly change their stance.

We wanna know some of your thoughts about something you've been saying in all of this, about CDDs being separate from endogenic plurality. Specifically, your thoughts on when the two do meet. Like, endogenic systems that get traumatized and develop CDD symptoms? Or CDD systems that practice headmate creation, and find created headmates working like the rest of their system? Or folks in either category that relate a lot with those in the other?

We're curious because we exist in that in-between; a system with DID due to trauma, but that doesn't view our plurality itself as coming from trauma.

And if you're not at all interested in that area of overlap, or in sharing those thoughts, no worries! Have a great day!

This is a pretty nuanced ask and each mod has a different view on things, so we'll all answer!

Mod Signal: I believe that endogenic plurality and the plurality found in CDD systems works differently, but that intersection you're talking about can exist. The majority of resources for CDD systems involve how to deal with trauma and different alters reactions to it. If an endogenic system goes through some shit and gets trauma later in life, and can get use out of grounding guides, or how to deal with flooding, I say use those guides (and literally anyone can improve their mental health from therapy as long as the therapist. You know. Isn't a cunt.) That being said. There are also endos who are very certain they're endos when they may have.... a bit more trauma than they thought. And that's normal. Incredibly so. But endogenic communities can lead to a bit more harm than good occasionally with those systems if they insist that the system in question isn't or couldn't be a cdd system, or encourages them not to look into resources on how to deal with trauma.

As far as purposefully created alters, they absolutely exist, and I know CDD systems that have created alters with it going ok, and CDD systems who have been *horribly* hurt trying. I've seen some tulpamancy guides out there that made me wince the whole time I've read them. Not because they're cringy, but because any time a CDD system fucks around with purposeful dissociation, it's Incredibly easy to fuck yourself up by accident. Even some guides to meditation can be harmful to systems if you don't go slowly and pay attention to your body (something that's already very, very easy to ignore if your system, like mine, is made of 90% pain holders lol).

It's for that reason that i haven't changed my pinned intro as "endo-neutral". I dont doubt endogenic plurality at all, but I still find a lot of critiques in the way the two communities mix. The labels are fucked anyway lol so. I dont know what label would best fit that stance. The problem does seem to be slowly fixing itself though. I'm happy that a lot of endos are leaning away from terms used by CDD systems. I view these problems for the most part as growing pains that will smooth themselves over as plurality in general becomes more accepted and more research about both sets of systems comes out.

Mod Quill: I’m feel like that’s a great jumping off point for me, someone who is so weird with syscourse that labels don’t fit me. I believe in endogenic plurality, I really do, but I also know this community has done so much harm to CDDs and vice versa. Part of me wants everyone to go to time out corners and think about what they’ve done.

In terms of the overlap between endogenic and CDD systems… I think defining it, at this point, is frankly meaningless, particularly for the reasons Signal stated. There’s so many endogenic systems who are actually CDD systems. On one hand, I want them to be able to access CDD spaces because, well, they have a CDD… but on the other, as someone who’s been horrifically damaged by endogenic spaces, who has spread a lot of misinformation and been fed a lot of misinformation due to those experiences… I’m wary of letting someone like that into a highly fucking traumatized space. (But I also have feelings about CDD spaces in general…)

At the end of the day, I feel like it’s not my place to draw that line. It’s up to each individual and their own system where they draw the line, and so long as it’s in-line with current understandings of CDDs and they don’t speak their personal experiences as if they’re gospel truth for all systems, I have no issues. If someone says they have endogenic DID (as in, they formed DID with absolutely no trauma), it’s not my place to directly confront that person and tell them that’s not possible; but if they shout from the heavens about how people are ignoring the truth, I’m going to post the truth as I know it, with sources to back it up.

The same goes for this overlap. A system who says “Hey, I have created alters, and I’m a DID system, and those things overlap?” Cool! Awesome! That’s actually my type of system. A system who goes, “Therefore, DID systems should split new alters for the benefits it has”? Allow me to traumadump about how my system completely destabilized due to that practice. The overlap is there, but it’s not for me to define for others; not unless they make their experiences universal.

Mod Robo: Oh boy, I have a lot of Thoughts on all of these questions! It's stuff I think about often. I love talking about all the in-betweens and overlaps, and I'd love to hear about your experiences too. Unfortunately, I don't think I can jam all of my thoughts in this post (it's already long enough) so I'll just talk about your first question.

First off, I want to say that I don't think it's all that unusual for someone with a CDD to feel like they've always been plural, even before their CDD. Of course, spiritual beliefs can play a role in that. Let's put spiritual reasonings aside though and look at it from a purely psychological view. It's our belief that all of our alters -- everything that can be them, will become them, etc. -- it's all there from the start. We don't believe that alters come out of a vacuum. All of my alters were born the day our body was born. Many of us did not exist as alters yet, but the foundation for us existed!

To give a personal example: some of us have memories of childhood that predate our existence as alters. These memories predate our knowledge of being a system or having DID. We've wondered how it's possible to have memories that predate our existence as alters. How is it possible for several alters to have these same memories, and feel as if it's their own but also not? How is it possible that we can't really attribute "who" those memories belong to other than just...us? All of us? It didn't fit into the mainstream idea that alters are supposed to be these distinct, clear-cut people sharing a body, with separate memories and no overlap, no utterance of our existence before becoming a separate alter.

Children aren't born with an integrated self. You probably know the whole spiel -- the mind integrates as you get older, blah blah blah. So, in our opinion, we were never not plural. We had an unintegrated mind full of parts as a child, and we grew up into an adult with an unintegrated mind full of parts and eventually a DID diagnosis.

I get that some people don't see themselves as existing before their CDD and that's okay, I understand that. I also relate to that, in a way! It can be weird to consider because you as the alter didn't exist until later on. But you as the brain did, if that makes sense.

All that being said, I believe that "endogenic CDDs" are a completely separate concept from "endogenic systems with CDDs." CDDs are diagnoses -- they have specified symptoms, diagnostic criteria, and treatment. Diagnoses are not people. You are. That's why plurality is such an incredibly personal thing, after all. We're literally talking about your own mind. Your self/selves. Your internal reality. No duh there are gonna be people who conceptualize and talk about it in different ways. Like, I firmly believe that's NEVER going to be clear cut and easy to understand.

OG Dude: First, I have to say, thank you to my mods. Their responses are fantastic, I support all of them. I brought them all in pretty early, and I wouldn't be where I am without them. Their pro/endo patience while I went back and forth, screamed and yelled... I love them. I love that they saw the good in me and decided to help me run this blog.

I agree with all that they said. For clarity sake, I'll give my own thoughts, even if they overlap or repeat.

I've posted from the beginning about how a lot of things that endogenic systems talked about were actually really normal in DID systems. Created alters, characters that take on life, MADD, loving your system, dysfunction in different areas of life, on and on. I think there's more intersection than a lot of people realize, but I really like how Robo talked about personal views. It took a really long time to realize that people defining their experiences in different ways isn't necessarily a bad thing, though it's unfortunate that sometimes this confuses systems that are still learning.

Yelling and screaming isn't going to help, though. There's another ask coming, this one about my thoughts on sophie, that I think will tie into this point and expand on it a lot more, so for now, I'll move on.

I don't have all the answers. I think CDDs are something extremely specific-- I think in a few more years, diagnosis will involve brain scans, biomarkers, and we'll be able to say with a lot more certainty where that line is, and what's different.

For now, I think I've learned that the best thing I can do for myself, and everyone else, endo or CDD, is just keep pumping out information.

A couple users on here are really good examples of these lines. They have CPTSD, PTSD, whatever else they've got going on, but they still hold the belief that their plurality and CPTSD are unrelated. It took a long time to come to terms with balancing respect for that self-determination, and my expectations of technology and the specificity of CDDs (meaning like, specific biomarkers).

In the end, I realized that it boiled down to, "are people getting the help they need?" Because in the end, that's all that matters, and if someone doesn't think they need help, why am I arguing? If someone does, who am I to keep them from resources?

What if that technology doesn't reach the mainstream, what if it's decades before it's refined enough to be financially feasible in diagnosis? What if people come out with the exact same brain structure as someone with DID and still refuse to admit that the plurality is related?

Well, shit, I don't know, but I'm guessing the answer is still going to be, "Don't yell at them, respect their self-determination."

I still firmly believe that plurality and CDDs are different things. I think that treatment for CPTSD and PTSD are different, and many endos without longterm, repetitive trauma in childhood have PTSD, and would benefit more from those spaces and resources than CDD/CPTSD spaces. However, I also admit that a general PTSD space isn't going to be prepared for the complex interplay of plurality and PTSD. All that said, it's not my job to tell someone which they have, my job should be to present information on both to everyone and let people come to their own conclusions.

It's hard, but it's a skill I'm still trying to learn. Seeing more people talk about their experiences is probably the only thing that's going to help make it easier.

[sophieinwonderland]

Found a Hate Blog in The #Plural Tag. 😮‍💨

As I covered recently, "Plural" is an inclusive word with origins in endogenic and non-disordered systems.

If any anti-endo posts in the "#plural" tag or other inclusive tags, don't expect your DNIs to be respected.

They also are doing this knowingly. People have already tried to contact them about using the inclusive plural tag and the hate blog has stubbornly refused.

So if they're going to post in inclusive tags, I figured I might as well respond to some of their vent posts in anti-endo tags. As always, if anti-endos have a problem with this or feel boundaries are being unfairly crossed, please take it up with the hate blog I'm responding to that's invading our spaces.

Also, really weird how they just jump straight into saying "pro-endos" aren't systems either. Hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of traumagenic DID systems whose disorders and trauma are just valid as yours. And they manage to not be bigots too!

Wait... are they claiming that ALL dissociation can only be caused by trauma?

Although previous research has implicated a history of childhood trauma in the development of dissociative tendencies, insufficient cognizance (in this context) has been taken of the distinction between pathological and nonpathological dissociation. In this study, the relationship between childhood trauma and both pathological and nonpathological dissociation was investigated in a sample of 100 Australian adults. Pathological dissociation was positively predicted by dimensions of childhood trauma, but no such relationship was found for nonpathological dissociation (psychological absorption). The data are consistent with the traumagenic model of the dissociative disorders, but factors other than childhood trauma may also be pertinent.

Amazing how they compare us with anti-vaxxers while trying to claim all dissociation is traumagenic. This wasn't even hard to find. 🙄

"I don't care about any morals"

Well, at least you're up front about it.

Also, I tend to check the DID tags every now and then and you know what I don't see there? Endogenic systems!

"#Endo Safe" tags are more often than not used by pro-endo traumagenic systems.

Guess what! If you have DID, you get to post in the DID tags. Being a hateful bigot isn't a requirement! Anyone with DID has the right to post in the DID tags, and can tag their post as endo safe too!

Maybe you wouldn't get as many anons from endogenic systems if you stop posting in inclusive tags. Just a thought!

How are they harmful to the community again?

Weren't you just saying earlier that pro-endos were stealing resources? Now you're acknowledging that they're making resources for the community, but this is also bad?

LOL!

Genic labels literally only exist because of the pro-endo community. And the anti-endo community notoriously hates xeno-origins like NPD-genic. Yes, people will assume you're endo-safe when you use xeno-origins because these terms, like most resources in the plural community, were made by pro-endos.

Keep it up guys! It's working! We're spreading!

Sorry, I don't feel like rebutting anything here. I just appreciate seeing that our efforts are paying off!

The Future is Plural! 😁

Stop!

This talking point has been completely debunked.

System hopping was used by pro-endos 15 years before the earliest association with RAMCOA. The idea that it was a RAMCOA term is a total lie invented by anti-endos!

OSDD-1A and OSDD-1B are not actually official disorders. There is an OSDD. The first example, called OSDD-1 sometimes, gives two possible presentations. One with less distinct alters and amnesia, and another with no amnesia. But these aren't called OSDD-1a or OSDD-1b.

If your goal is education, this nuance is important.

Could it be because ASPEC people have dealt with a ton of exclusionism from some queer communities, and are more accepting of other people as a result? And perhaps they also recognize similarities between system exclusionists and queer exclusionists?

You're coming and posting in our tags!

That's why people keep interacting with you! "Plural" is a term coined by non-disordered systems, you've been told this, and you insist on posting in inclusive tags anyway!

You don't get to bust in someone's door, complain about them in their home, and then tell them not to interact with you! It doesn't work like that!

Funny how these are the only sources they can provide. And they exclusively deal with DID without even touching on other forms of plurality.

Anyway...

The ICD-11 says you can experience "multiple distinct personality states" without a dissociative disorder.

The creators of the theory of structural dissociation have said hypnosis and mediumship may involve self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality.

And Transgender Mental Health, written by Eric Yarbrough and published by the American Psychiatric Association (who publishes the DSM) says you can be plural without trauma or a disorder.

Sources repeatedly affirm that it's possible to be plural without trauma!

Anyone who claims it's impossible to be plural without trauma is either ignorant or lying.

And if you're going to keep spreading hate and misinformation, at least keep it out of inclusive tags!