#coffee bean transmasc

[idwl]

Milieugender: A Guide

[pt: Milieugender: A Guide /end pt]

An explanation on why being against BAF transfems and BAM transmascs is harmful, and why transness shouldnt be restricted to one's birth sex.

"Woah, Idwl! Those are a lot of words! What does this one mean?"

Milieugender

BAF

BAM

Exorsexism

Transmedicalism

Bioessentialism — “Bioessentialism, a shorthand for biological essentialism, is the idea that we are born with specific, immutable traits by virtue of our sex. To a bioessentialist, sex maketh man.” Sourced from here

Please read this post all the way through until making assumptions or coming to conclusions. I would appreciate if readers kept an open mind while reading.

Introduction

[pt: Introduction /end pt]

The trans community, like any other community, is often divided on multiple topics and viewpoints. That is the nature of community; everyone has differing opinions. One topic that's been plaguing trans spaces as of lately has been the existence of BAF transfem and BAM transmasc folk.

BAF transfem and BAM transmasc are identities often used by those who are intersex, nonbinary, or detrans, but there are a slew of other reasons to use this term, as well. But we're not here to discuss the term itself; there's plenty of other posts explaining why people identify this way. No, today I would like to dicuss the people who are against it, and how it's rooted in bigotry.

This post is long, because multiple types of bigotry play into arguments against this identity. I'm here to talk about them all. This post does not aim to spark discourse, but rather, I aim to spark polite discussion, and help others understand the implications of being against this deeply nuanced and complex identity.

Transmedicalist Rhetoric

[pt: Transmedicalist Rhetoric /end pt]

First off, I want to start with how transmed rhetoric plays into being anti milieugender. Simply put, being against these identities is deeply rooted in transmed rhetoric. What is transmed rhetoric, though? And what does this mean for folks against this identity?

Transmed— a shortening of transmedicalist— is a person who believes that dysphoria is required to be trans.

This is rhetoric that has often hurt the community rather than helped. Why exactly is transmed rhetoric harmful, though? It is because it has often been weaponized against nonbinary people, used to uphold the gender binary, and invalidate nondysphoric trans people. It has also been weaponized against the MOGAI community; those with neogenders and xenogenders have often especially been the target of transmeds.

But how does this tie into milieugender experiences? Well, arguments against milieugender folk often rely on the very same arguments that transmeds use towards non-dysphoric or nonbinary folk; arguments about validity, struggle, dysphoria, etc...

A huge part of transmedicalism is viewing transness as involving suffering— transness, to transmeds, is not a happy or prideful thing, or an identity, but a medical condition. Most transmedicalists also view medical transition as necessary to being trans.

What I really want to point out here is that tidbit about transness involving suffering. Most transmeds, as a product of viewing transness as requiring dysphoria, view suffering as necessary to the trans experience. This argument, no matter how you come to the conclusion, is harmful.

You can see this argument when BAF transfems are brought up; often, it is argued that BAF transfems cannot be transfem due to not understanding the experience of MTF folk. This experience? Transmisogyny. I have seen similar arguments for BAM transmascs. Isn't it a bit harmful to boil down transness to one's discrimination and hurt?

(As well, to act like milieugender folk do not experience discrimination is just plain wrong; as, again, these people are often nonbinary, intersex, detrans, multigender, etc.)

So, while not inherently transmedicalist, arguments against milieugender folk often rely on the same kind of arguments that transmeds use.

Intersexism

[pt: Intersexism /end pt]

(Due to me being perisex, I consulted intersex people for assistance in writing this section. Thank you to @the-astropaws for your assistance.)

Most people who are milieugender identify as such because they are intersex. While perisex people still use these labels, yes, a lot of intersex folk do, too. Due to this fact, being against these labels is rooted in intersexism. I would like to touch on this.

Most arguments against milieugender folk involve some sort of statement about how they can't transition to something they already are, or are seen as.

When you imply that BAF trans women are already seen as women, and thus don't need to pass or transition, you are making a lot of assumptions about these trans girls. Yes, even perisex folk. By reinforcing the fact that BAF = feminine, you are reinforcing bioessentialism, which directly hurts intersex people. You are also invalidating the experience of intersex people.

User @/the-astropaws explained very well how this argument is intersexist. I would like to quote what one member of The Alternates, Aoba, said on this topic. I cleaned it up a bit, but it should have roughly the same meaning.

"[Claiming] all afabs are default feminine or can't "transition to fem" [...] is just, not true at all for both perisex n intersex people. The idea that afab = grew up feminine is the same excuse literal terfs use against intersex people who say they're tfem regardless on if they say they're afab OR amab.. an agab does not mean anything about what people were raised or seen as. [Enforcing] that idea on perisex people is [by] default targeting intersex people like me that did not at all get a default based on agab?? [While the] perisex experience will never be the Exact Same as an intersex experience, [...] many have similarities and a lot of wording hurts both sides"

Exorsexism

[pt: Exorsexism /end pt]

Let's take a common argument, one I've heard multiple times: "BAF trans women are already women, and aren't trans. If you're BAF and a woman, you're cis."

Before I delve into this argument, what is exorsexism? It is linked above, but to put it plainly, it is the discrimination against nonbinary individuals, intersex individuals, and those with gender modalities other than cis and trans. Here, we will focus on it's definition as discrimination against nonbinary individuals.

Further defined, as quoted from the MOGAI miraheze wiki, "exorsexism is the belief that the only allowable genders are wholly and exclusively male and wholly and exclusively female, and one cannot identify as both male and female, or as neither male nor female. It also includes the belief that the only allowable gender modalities are wholly and exclusive cis and wholly and exclusively trans, and one cannot identify as both cis and trans or as neither cis nor trans."

So, I'm sure you can see how this argument is, quite plainly, relying on a lot of exorsexist rhetoric. Even if you're not comfortable with BAM nonbinary people calling themselves transmasc, or BAF nonbinary people calling themselves transfem, to imply they're cis is disrespectful. It is also heavily ignorant of other's gender experiences.

There are multiple reason someone may be a girl and BAF, or a boy and BAM yet not cis. Being bigender, for example. Being demigender. Being genderfluid. Being a forasgirl. These are all nonbinary experiences. To say all women who are BAF and all men who are BAM are cis or "basically cis" is simply incorrect. It also relies on exorsexist rhetoric, because you are implying that womanhood cannot exist outside of the binary; i.e, you are implying you can only be either wholly, solely female or wholly, solely male. It's also invalidating to multigender folk, who often do not identify as cis.

Transphobia

[pt: Transphobia /end pt]

There's another part about arguments against these identities, and that's the fact that they're also rooted in plain transphobia. This quite frustrates me; in an attempt to protect FTM and MTF trans folk, when arguing against milieugender identities, FTM/MTF identities are often invalidated.

I would like to bring back a point from the intersexism section; the fact that milieugender folk cant be trans because they're already perceived as their gender. e.g. BAF transfems are already (perceived as) feminine, and BAM transmascs are already (perceived as) masculine.

By saying that being BAF inherently means you are feminine, or perceived as such— even for perisex folk— you are implying (intentionally or not) that ftm trans men and transmascs are inherently (seen as) feminine. You are equating the female sex and femininity as going hand in hand. The same goes for if you make this argument for BAM transmascs and manhood.

Sex should be an inherently neutral thing,. To imply sex comes with certain characteristics, once again, reinforces bioessentialism, which hurts trans folk.

This argument, while not intended to hurt FTM or MTF folk, will inadvertently do so, in one way or another.

Hypocrisy

[pt: Hypocrisy /end pt]

Generally, I also think it's just quite hypocritical to be against identities such as these if you're for other good faith identities. Isn't the whole point of good faith identities to, you know, assume good faith? Sure, some labels may not make sense or seem weird, but really, what harm do milieugender folk bring to the community? They're not appropriating labels any more than a boy identifying as a lesbian, are they?

Ultimately, it harms nobody. One cannot help if a label is most euphoric for them, or makes them most comfortable. And while FTM/MTF folk deserve their own spaces, certainly, milieugender folk existing isn't harming those spaces. In fact, most milieugender folk are aware of the differences between themselves and FTM/MTF folk, and try their best to be respectful.

This isn't to say there aren't entitled or hurtful milieugender people, but you know what?

There are entitled and hurtful people everywhere.

The whole point of transness is that it's for everybody. Why are we denying it from anyone? Why are we denying people happiness? Have we learned nothing?

Queer exclusion will always hurt queer people, period.

Redefining trans girl, transfem, transmasc, and trans boy

[pt: Redefining trans girl, transfem, transmasc, and trans boy /end pt]

So, where does that lead us?

I think, as a queer community, we should redefine transness. Transness has always been a label of self-identification, one you had to opt-in to by your own choice.

Trans girls should just mean girls who are trans. Trans boys should just mean boys who are trans.

Transness, now, places a focus on the birth sex. Personally, as a trans man, I would feel a lot happier if trans man would come to mean a man who was trans. Because it makes him happy. And who are we to deny queer people happiness and their right to self-identify?

Not only that, but this is better for everybody. It will include intersex people, people who dont plan on physically or socially transitioning, nonbinary people— it will include all people who feel as though they are trans. It's also, ultimately, safer.

While you may still not agree with my identity, I hope you were at least able to get something out of reading this.

---

tagging for reach, ask to be removed; @radiomogai; @noxwithoutstars; @daybreakthing; @flutteringwings-coining; @rwuffles; @scr-ppup; @smilepilled; @floraeth; @the-astropaws; @somniabyte; @circulatoire; @cyberneticloverboy

[isobug]

Blueberry Bee Transmascfem / Carpenter Bee Transmascfem flag + symbol

An AGAB-less Transmascfem / Transfemasc label. For anyone who is both a Honeybee Transfem and Bumblebee Transmasc ( or equivalent term ), Transmascfems who reject their AGAB, are AGABpunk, intersex Transmascfems, etc.

Made to parallel the Honeybee Transfem flag ( term coining here and clarification on use here ) and the Bumblebee Transmasc flag because I like the "Bee" theme and bugs in general. It has the same meanings but in relation to being Transmascfem instead of solely Transfem or Transmasc.

The outside stripes are closer to brown as a reference towards how Carpenter Bees nest in wood,while the symbol is inspired by blueberries for Blueberry Bees ( and because it looked cute TBH... )

Here is the isolated symbol for use elsewhere :

It was partially made by editing a vector from torskaya on flaticon. You can find the attribution link in the post source !! I added little star shapes to the berries for aesthetic appeal and clarity .

Another very self-indulgent work, and just like with Bumblebee Transmasc, I will not fight about this label. I block without a response ^^

Taglist - @radiomogai, @daybreakthing

[dragonpride17]

[ID: 8 blinkies of different pride flags, with the name of each label written in pixel lettering. In order, they are coffee bean transmasc (x2), solar dandy, lesboy, querl, quoy, datesime, and gorture. /end ID]

blinkie requests for various anons!

[our-honeybee-transfem-experience]

honeybee transfem/coffee bean transmasc solidarity emojis

:D

[coffeebean-transmasc-experience]

Shout out to any and all agab nonconforming/agabpunk folk

The ones who look at agab and just say "fuck that, I don't have an agab"

The ones who make up their own agab or use one so obscure no one else knows what it means

The ones who still use traditional ones but not the one they were assigned by a doctor

The ones who only identify with their agab sometimes

The ones who used to identify with their doctor assigned agab but don't anymore

The ones who didn't used to connect with their doctor assigned agab but are starting to feel more connected to it now

The ones who are genderless or have countless genders and that affects their connection to agab

The ones who are trans to their doctor assigned agab

The ones who have more than one agab

Intersex ones

Disabled ones

Ones who use xenogenders

Ones who use neopronouns

Nonhuman ones

You're all awesome af, and your experiences and unique takes on the world and gender are so interesting and special. Don't forget that!

[dyslexiboxes]

"This honeybee transfem supports ___ coffeebean transmasc brothers" userboxes for @galaxy-starshine! Hope you like 'em!

Bonus: "This coffeebean transmasc supports ___ honeybee transfem sisters" userboxes!

Image descriptions for all userboxes are in the alt text.

Credit is unnecessary, but appreciated!

[edwardallenpoe]

Some thoughts on Coffee Bean Transmasc as a label.

I just saw a post by someone saying that they felt like there wasn't a point to identifying as coffee bean transmasc because they already talked about typically assigned afab struggles and are easily clockable as afab, and I think what they said really made the point, right?

Being transmasc doesn't have to (only) be about your agab. It doesn't have to be informed by those experiences. It especially doesn't have to be informed by typical perisex experiences. Someone who is transmasc complaining about their period could have been any agab, could have any different sex characteristics, the point is that we don't try to explain and defend our transmasc identities by putting ourselves in specific boxes of agab language.

You can still complain about having your period. You can still complain about your voice and people clocking you as a gender you aren't. Doesn't mean you have to call yourself a specific agab. Just means you're you.

This is kinda, like, thinking you can't talk about being pregnant and identifying as coffee bean transmasc. These are things that play important roles in your life that you can choose to put certain language to.

I personally do not like calling myself afab. It's just uncomfortable in a lot of ways for me. But I still have my period, I still have a chest, I still have a feminine-ish face. I can complain about people misgendering me without talking about what doctors called me when I was born when they looked at my privates. Especially considering I'm intersex and my intersex experiences play a big part of all of the above.

What I'm getting at here is that perisex people also have to deconstruct the sex binary. I need more perisex people to talk about their experience and gender wayy outside the confines of dyadic norms. Need this the same way we needed straight people to be less heteronormative, by assuming you have a partner of the opposite sex, or cis people putting their pronouns in bio even though it could "be assumed".

Deconstructing the gender and sex binary isn't just the job of intersex people. It's for everyone.

[themegaqueerspace]

ForcedMascic

A transmasc gender connected to the forced masc aesthetic. This may relate to a transmasculine person or transman forcing themself to be hypermasculine in order to feel valid and avoid dysphoria. This may be a positive or negative experience.

This may also relate to the aesthetic itself, without connotations to the meaning.

This is transmasculine-exclusive identity. This is open for transmascs of any AGAB, including neoAGABs.

[queersekai]

Would 🔀 and Coffee Bean Transmasc be okay?

You rolled Shizuku!

[isobug]

Bumblebee Transmasc flag + symbol

An AGAB-less transmasc label. For any transmasc who doesn't want to reveal their AGAB, AMAB transmascs who want a less AGAB-focused label, transmascs who reject their AGAB, are AGABpunk, intersex transmascs, etc.

Synonymous with Coffee Bean Transmasc and Hornet Transmasc ( this is the earliest mention of Hornet Transmasc I know of ) so you can also use these with / alongside either of those labels / flags, if you want !!

The flag was inspired by the Honeybee Transfem flag ( found here, term coining here and clarification on use here ), since this term parallels it and keeps the "bee" theme. It has the same meanings, but in relation to transmasculinity and masculinity. The symbol is a honeycomb pattern !! Here it is isolated for use wherever :

Deeply self-indulgent as I really just wanted to make a bug-themed flag and symbol, but free for anyone to use anywhere as always !! ( I am intersex and I will not fight about this label BTW. I just block without a response ^^ )

Taglist - @radiomogai, @daybreakthing

[rabbits-foot-reqs]

COFFEE BEAN TRANSMASC USERBOXES

[Pt: coffee bean transmasc userboxes]

[Id in alt]

Made by: mod 🖖🏽

Requested by: N/A

Requests: open!

✺✺✺

[Id in alt]

[our-honeybee-transfem-experience]

Folks are not normal enough about folks who reject their AGAB, even if it's for personal, deep reasons. I hate how it's normalized to dictate someone else's identity in modern queer spaces.

Someone who says they're AMAB but transmasc sounds pretty freaking queer to me. I'm not going to question them because they have an experience I can't comprehend. It's not fair to them to have to explain themselves, and not be allowed to simply just be.

Someone rejecting their AGAB should not be as controversial as it is. Someone could have trauma relating to their AGAB, therefore reject it. Someone could simply not like being seen as their AGAB, so reject it entirely. Someone can validly choose to reject their AGAB for the sake of being 'reborn' in their new identity. Nothing wrong with that.

It feels weird to see folks say, "Um. You have to actually acknowledge that you were assigned a male, and that it'll forever be that way because you can't change your assigned gender at birth.", or say something like "You can only be AMAB or AFAB, you can't change what gender you were born into." to trans people. Not to mention how intersexist that can be. Like, how is this even a commonplace thing I hear as an argument against AGAB non-conforming folks???

Or someone telling me I'm cis for identifying as transfem, despite being AFAB. That infuriates me. I am NOT cis. I don't feel cis in any way. I don't feel comfortable with my AGAB. It's just transphobia whenever someone tells me this at this point. I AM transfem. My genders aren't all completely/traditionally female, therefore I identify as transfem. It's that simple. And the stupid "Cis isn't an identity, it's a fact and something you can't change." I beg of them to understand that some folks that would count as trans consider themselves cis. I beg of them to understand that some folks are cis and trans at the same time. I beg of them to understand that gender is messy, and minimizing the vast experience of gender down to AGAB is violently wrong.

Sure, I acknowledge I will not ever have the same experience as an AMAB transfem, but that doesn't make me any less transfem. Ever. I am still transfem, regardless of my AGAB. I. AM. Transfem. Proudly, and truly.

.

[coffeebean-transmasc-experience]

Spider punk coffee bean transmasc pfps

Ayyyy how's it going? I made some profile pics inspired by the headcanon @cericertain made about Hobie Brown being coffee bean transmasc

~~

No credit needed but please reblog if you use thanks!!!! :DDDD

[residentdisaster124]

chihiro fujisaki coffeebean transmac pfp i felt like making

[virovirokun-has-adhd]

GUYS OP BLOCKED ME, THIS IS NOT A LIGHTHEARTED SHIT POST OP IS SERIOUS AND THINKS MEN SHOULDN'T BE MASCULINE UNIRONICALLY

[img id: a userbox with the coffee bean transmasc flag on the left and in the text section " radfems , terfs/tirfs/swerfs , transmed/truscum , transandrophobia deniers , tma & tme binary enforcers DNI " end id]

[themegaqueerspace]

I've seen a new anti-neoAGAB sort of posts. Let me explain why these are and also, why I don't agree with these posts.

WHAT IS NEO-AGAB?

Let's start by saying that neoAGABs are apart of the AGABpunk movement, which simply and overall rejects the idea of AGAB language and thinks the idea of AFAB and AMAB is overall useless and oppressive. It is often used by trans perisex individuals and intersex individuals. It was never stated that these were intersex-exclusive, therefore making this an inclusive thing to anyone who aligns with them. Here is the definition according to a wiki:

AGABpunk, also known as NeoAGAB, XenoAGAB, and BirthGenderPunk, refers to someone who either rejects their AGAB in favor of one they prefer, doesn’t wish to disclose their AGAB for any reason, or simply doesn’t find the concept of AGAB to be important or relevant and chooses their own.

It is not stated to be intersex-exclusive. Perisex people can use neoAGABs. It was never stated otherwise. It is an overall rejection of an oppression that creates stereotypes and forces hormones/surgery on non-consenting intersex children.

WHY ARE PEOPLE AGAINST IT?

I have seen two seperate posts saying that it mocks AGAB language and takes away from intersex people.

The reasons I can think of for this include:

They think that the AGABpunk movement is specifically for intersex people and perisexes should not be involved

They think it is a form of saying intersex people don't matter

They think it is a form of promoting AGAB language

They actually do support AGAB language and the harm it brings to others (even if they have no personal issues with it)

They think they own AGABs in general and therefore can dictate how others percieve theirs

That is all I can think of, all points are valid to think if you don't know what the movement is about to start with.

WHY ARE YOU PRO-NEOAGAB?

AGAB binary terms simply are irrelevant and do more harm than good. Individuals, intersex and perisex alike, are entitled to take harmful things and create good from them. The arguments I see against these terms only revolve around how it oppresses intersex individuals doesn't make much sense, as the AGABpunk movement was never exclusive to only intersex people and was, as stated, a punk movement against AGAB language and it's harm. For people to assume it harms intersex people is to assume it is only created for intersex people when it wasn't.

Yes, it harms AGAB language, because AGAB language is harmful. Everyone is allowed to reclaim something that actively harms them, and other people are not allowed to take that reclaimation away unless the term was exclusively for them.

No one can take away a label that isn't exclusively for them. NeoAGAB wasn't ever intersex exclusive and it is used and created in good faith; therefore, neither intersex nor perisex people can remove it. It's weird having to say that... Like, i cannot remove stargender (just as a random example, stargender is fine).

For anyone curious, coffee bean transmasc supports and include AGABpunk and neo-AGABs. It is not explicitly stated for honey bee transfem, so I cannot confirm nor deny that.

Arguing against neoAGABs promotes AGAB language and its harm on others, whether or not that's the intent. Stop trying to say you can take away a label that wasn't only yours to take to start with. There are so many intersex-exclusive labels, neoAGABs are not one of them.

This is a losing battle for something that isn't an issue and is, in fact, a good-faith label. Fight the oppression of AGAB binaries.

TL;DR: AGABpunk (which inherently includes neoAGABs) isn't intersex-exclusive, therefore cannot be removed from perisex individuals. Label yourself as assigned plant at birth. Fuck AGAB language+the binary system it enforces+the harm it brings.

SAYING "PERISEX NEOAGAB USERS DNI" IS A REALLY WEIRD WAY OF TRYING TO SAY PERISEX TRANS, NON-BINARY, AND ANYONE ELSE HARMED BY THE AGAB LANGUAGE DON'T DESERVE INCLUSIVE LABELS. IT'S A VERY ODD WAY TO SAY THAT IF YOU AREN'T THE MINORITY IN THE PERISEX/INTERSEX WORLD, YOU DON'T DESERVE INCLUSIVE LABELS. IT'S A REALLY STRANGE WAY TO SAY YOU DON'T THINK PERISEX PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED PERSONAL VIEWS ON THEIR AGABS OR BE HARMED BY IT JUST BECAUSE THEY AREN'T INTERSEX. THAT'S REALLY FUCKING WEIRD.

On that note, perisex individuals are not oppressed for this. This is simply misinformation on the subject. Intersex individuals are the minority group; however, that doesn't give them the automatic right to choose how others or even other intersex people are allowed to view and handle their AGAB and any trauma or issues that stem from their AGAB when it comes to non-exclusive and good-faith labels such as neoAGAB. Just like I, a queer person, do not get to choose and dictate how other people experience different good-faith queer identities. Do more research and do not claim you can take things that aren't yours to take in any situation, for any person.

Examples of taking from a situation that is yours to take from: - saying people outside of certain groups cannot use exclusive slurs (ex. A cisgender person using a trans slur is bad; a person who isn't Black using a racial slurs against Black people is bad), - saying people outside of certain groups cannot use certain exclusive labels (ex. Allistics cannot use neurogenders like autigender and ADHDgender)

Example of taking from a situation that isn't yours to take from: - attempting to take non-exclusive terms away from other groups and make it exclusive (ex. this neoAGAB situation; queer people trying to take non-exlusive labels such as stargender or pupgender away from others) - trying to reclaim slurs/words that aren't yours to take or if you take said slurs/words without permission from those in that group (ex. Using the term femboy [used against transfems] or tomboy [used against transmascs]; saying racial slurs on Black people as a Latino)