#but he loves wei wuxian SO much. he loves him so much

[helpmeimblorboing]

I really like imagining Nie Huaisang’s response to Jiang Cheng’s whole shtick post-WWX-death, because, you CANNOT tell me that he wouldn’t immediately draw parallels, true or not, to his own shit with Nie Mingjue.

Like I can just imagine him thinking while talking to Jiang Cheng like “You were so unwilling to accept the notion of a world where your brother was dead that you were willing to spend your entire life chasing a ghost. That’s admirable. I admire that. Maybe if I had done that, Da-ge wouldn’t have…”

And meanwhile Jiang Cheng is just seething, fully convinced that he was chasing after Wei Wuxian’s ghost because he just hated him so gosh-darn much. Like, not to stir up any debate or piss off any of the more opinionated people on this site, but I genuinely don’t think JC hated WWX as much as he, or the jianghu, thought he did.

Hate can drive a person to do many things, but I genuinely don’t think it’s possible for hate to drive a person to chase a dead man for thirteen years. Five ? Maybe. Seven is pushing it. But thirteen ? The only kind of hate powerful enough to do that is hate adulterated with at least a sprinkling of love

And I think that creates a really interesting contrast, one Nie Huaisang, who disguises his hate and grief behind walls of obliviousness, all the while drowning in regret and despair, and one Jiang Cheng, who disguises his grief and regret behind walls of hate so solid that he’s managed to fool even himself

Both of them wearing masks. Both of them pretending to be whole after the death of their sibling(s). Neither of them actually okay

On the other hand, maybe Jiang Cheng does just fully despise Wei Wuxian, which just makes the whole thing hilarious instead of melancholic. Like here Huaisang is, drawing up elaborate manuscripts of the tragic story of the Yunmeng Shuangjie, and meanwhile Jiang Cheng is just the living representation of that one neighbour who’s been pissed off at you for a full decade because you accidentally insulted her apple cobbler at a meet one time

And once again, that’s a really interesting contrast, because, Huaisang holds grudges too, but unlike Jiang Cheng, who goes around announcing his hate, Huaisang hides it behind faked incompetence and obliviousness

Either way, it’s an enjoyable experience

[qiu-yan]

2 and 21 for mdzs please?

sorry for the wait!

choose violence ask game

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

in terms of "compelling" arguments, i've got nothing. in terms of bullshit arguments i pulled out of my ass, though....

of course, the easy way out is to argue that jiang cheng is asexual and therefore would never come into sexual contact with anyone. an equally easy way out is to argue that jiang cheng is so rizzless that, even if he wanted to top or bottom, no one would do it with him....that's the easy way out of this question, though.

my own opinion is that, if jiang cheng were attracted to men and/or had a partner who was into pegging, he would have way too much internalized homophobia to give bottoming a try. even if he somehow got over himself enough to admit that he was into men (already impossible), he would still buy into the ancient-greek school of thought on homosexuality, wherein "ackshually it's only gay if you're on the bottom." he would be fully convinced that, if he were to bottom - and worse, if he were to enjoy it - he would become Less Man on an existential level. this would absolutely kill him inside, would make him actively more homophobic than if he were just straight or asexual, and would make him a nightmare for any other man to hook up with.

but of course, the more you adamantly refuse to even consider something - the more you fear something, in other words - the more you end up obsessing over it. if jiang cheng were actually hooking up with men in this scenario (entirely possible because he's like 6ft tall and probably can host because he's rich, which makes him a prime catch in the eyes of like 90% of grindr), he would adamantly refuse to bottom. he'd declare himself a hard top. but would he actually enjoy himself? or would he, as he topped in a lackluster manner whichever men were unfortunate enough to give him a chance, imagine himself in their position - first with disgust, as he told himself he was different than them; then with terror, as he feared that he might one day end up in their position; and then with something else?

because jiang cheng's fear - that he might one day bottom and enjoy it - would quickly mutate into a full-on psychosexual obsession with the concept of bottoming itself. because it's repression king jiang cheng we're talking about, said obsession would eventually become one of those things you're so afraid of that your fear ends up wrapping back around and turning into a fetish. because it's jiang cheng we're talking about, this would then lead to him actually bottoming one day. and then, because it's jiang cheng we're talking about and the universe hates him, he would actually end up enjoying it.

does his mindset change? maybe. or maybe he just becomes Worse.

i feel like i've ended up doing the opposite of answer the question.....sorry.....these are my honest thoughts, though.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

i'm going to get killed for this, but that's the purpose of this ask game, so i'll be honest....."lan wangji as Love Interest." of course, by this i do not mean to say "lan wangji himself." rather, what i mean is the way in which lan wangji is a "love interest" first and a "character" second. in my view, the story is only really interested in lan wangji as "the guy who loves wei wuxian and is unquestioningly devoted to him," rather than interested in lan wangji as a character in his own right.

of course, the story spills a lot of ink on how much lan wangji loves wei wuxian, how much lan wangji has sacrificed for wei wuxian, how unquestioningly devoted lan wangji is to wei wuxian, and so on. and while this is all true and good, in my view, there are also several other interesting angles in lan wangji's story worth exploring. however, these angles instead seem rather neglected by the story, which appears to only want to discuss "lan wangji's devotion to his One True Love."

some angles i consider to be interesting, and which i felt like went underexplored in canon:

how much of lan wangji's support of wei wuxian is because he believed wei wuxian was right, and how much of it is because he loves wei wuxian and does not want to lose wei wuxian again? where does lan wangji's personal romantic love end and his moral compass begin? the novel equates [standing with wei wuxian] with [being righteous], but it is exceedingly easy to design a situation where the morally righteous path entails sacrificing wei wuxian in some way - how would lan wangji behave in such a situation? if wei wuxian himself had not protected the wen remnants (due to canon divergence or whatever), would lan wangji have spoken up for the wen remnants?

to what degree does lan wangji agree with wei wuxian's actions and consider said actions to be morally justified? comparatively, to what degree does lan wangji consider wei wuxian's actions to be morally questionable, and simply wants to shoulder wei wuxian's sins with him out of love? does lan wangji know and/or believe that wei wuxian killing jin zixuan was a genuine accident? if he does not know, does he care?

what does lan wangji's relationship with his family look like? on one hand, in his failed bid to save wei wuxian, he injured 33 of his own sect's elders, which under confucian principles is a massive wrongdoing. have the injuries of these elders healed? does lan wangji feel guilty? on the other hand, lan wangji's family betrayed both him and the moral principles they espoused, by first nearly whipping lan wangji to death and then joining the first siege of the burial mounds. does lan wangji resent his family for this? does he resent lan xichen and lan qiren, or does he understand that they had argued the punishment down from execution? is that why, after lan xichen's world shattered at the guanyin temple in yunping, lan wangji was able to immediately leave the premises with wei wuxian in tow, without once checking in on his brother?

what does lan wangji think of his late parents? does he want to know why his mother killed his father's teacher, or would he rather not know? does his family keep the knowledge from him, or does he avoid the knowledge himself? what does he think of his father's actions - to him, is his father someone who fell from the path of duty and righteousness for the sake of love, someone who selfishly abandoned his duties and forced his responsibilities onto his younger brother, and/or someone who imprisoned lan wangji's mother against her will and perhaps even forced himself onto her? does lan wangji know whether or not he was conceived consensually? does this bother him?

given the whole history of lan wangji's parents, how does lan wangji view his own, how should i say, sexual interests? lan wangji did once pin down a struggling wei wuxian and forcibly kiss him; would lan wangji make a connection between the nonconsensual nature of this deed and the imprisonment of his mother? furthermore, wang and xian's relationship postcanon seems to have an element of d/s and noncon roleplay to it (which i'm not judging them for, good for them); would that also remind lan wangji of how his father and his father's sect brought about the imprisonment of his mother? or are these two separate things entirely?

in my view, these are all highly interesting aspects of lan wangji's story - and all of these are implied by details given in canon. however, canon shirks discussing these aspects of lan wangji's character in favor of focusing on him as the Male Lead: rather than explore any of these angles, which would further define lan wangji as a person, canon seems far more interested in single-mindedly focusing on how sad lan wangji was that wei wuxian died, how tragic the loss of his One True Love was, and how wholeheartedly happy lan wangji is now that wei wuxian has come back and returns his feelings.

to me, it feels like this guy got sanded down from a "full individual" to a "love interest." it feels to me like the story gives us some details about lan wangji's own life, but then nonetheless insists on reducing him from a person in his own right to a satellite that revolves around wei wuxian (the story's real favorite). because of this, MDZS the novel read as less the wei wuxian and lan wangji story, and more the Wei Wuxian story starring Wei Wuxian, in which lan wangji is a love interest first and a person second.

i forget if i said this before or if i read it from someone else's blog, but it does feel like, if you want to love lan wangji on his own, you have to do a lot of the heavy lifting yourself. or at the very least scrub all the male lead energy off of him first, so that the individual underneath can be revealed.

[trans-xianxian]

it's simply that it's so clear through the whole first part of the story that jiang cheng truly loves wei wuxian with his Whole Heart despite how dysfunctionally he often treats him, and the thing that crumbles it all is wei wuxian's own profound act of love for jiang cheng As His Older Brother. it's simply that maybe if they just didn't love each other so much none of it would have ended this way. I'm going to be sick I tell you SICK

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Not beating the allegations.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[mewtwo24]

I love that I finally got to the part where wwx has his first kiss when he was blindfolded, and at first it's all fairly normal--you know. He's like 'no killing intent so I should be okay' and tries to fight out of the person's grip (obviously lwj) as one does.

And then. And then. "Damn, girl seems nervous. Poor thing, cheer up babe your kissing game is great" WWX. CAN WE PLEASE FOCUS.

[dragonselkie]

I LOVE how cute wei ying finds lan zhan after his reincarnation, like as soon as they’re working together he goes back to having his First Crush and it’s adorable, how innocently in love he still is. being surprised about how lan zhan teases back now, how cute he found drunk lan zhan, the teasing and clinging coming so easily. you can really tell, for wei ying, it has only been a few years of separation 🥺

[spottedgardeneelstan]

dead waltz.

[phoenixkaptain]

My favourite part of MDZS is how cool Wei Wuxian is.

Like, we don’t talk enough about how cool he is. He performs Empathy three times. His ability to use a flute is so powerful, the song doesn’t even have to sound good for it to work. He brought a dead guy back to life (kinda sorta).

But especially, I love how Wei Wuxian treats ghosts and corpses! Wei Wuxian just hangs out with corpses, for FUN!! He scares away low-level corpses just by existing! He hears the voices of the dead to the point that he can’t enter a place too full of resentment without getting a headache from the constant chatter.

I also really like the Extra where Wei Wuxian is just like “Well, the ghost will go away when he’s done screaming. I’m not worried about it.” And he just leaves a screaming ghost at some guy’s house so the ghost can move on peacefully (as peacefully as is possible when one moves on by screaming).

I love all of this so much because Wei Wuxian is constantly saying that people have too high of expectations of him. Xue Yang telling him to put Xiao Xingchen’s soul back together is just one example of this. Someone will tell Wei Wuxian to do something and he’ll be like “How powerful do you think I am?!” And it’s like… Wei Wuxian, you spent six hours hanging onto a cursed sword in the Xuanwu’s mouth, you survived three months in the Burial Mounds and then returned to make it into a semi-livable place, you killed at least a thousand people that one time, and you came back from the dead, just to name a few.

Wei Wuxian is so strong. He’s so cool. He is terrifying. He is unstoppable and unflappable if only because he gets over his embarrassment in about fifteen seconds! He just rolls with it! He rolls with anything that happens! He remains Shocked and Apalled by Lan Zhan’s behaviour for all of five minutes before basically going “lol okay”! He told Lan Zhan that he wanted to sleep with him in front of Lan Xichen, Jin Ling, a handful of Jin disciples, and the literal bad guy of the novel!!!

(I’ll never get over that scene. It is so funny.

WWX: “I need to say something, it can’t wait.”

JGY: “Then just say it right now as you are.” (Referring to the fact that Wei Wuxian has a wire wrapped around his throat that can kill him in seconds)

WWX: “Good point! Lan Zhan, we should’ve fucked.”

This scene is so fucking funny, I will absolutely never get over it)

I love powerful protagonists and honestly, Wei Wuxian is at the top of the list when it comes to overpowered protagonists. The only thing that phases him is dogs, and even then, he himself admits that he can get used to their presence as long as they aren’t barking.

TLDR: Wei Wuxian is so powerful and I totally get why Lan Zhan fell for him.

[factsilike]

My first impression of LWJ: "Oh god, not another one of those broody, cold asshole CEO-type of Male Leads, is it??

Me after reading the novel several times: "I'M SO NORMAL ABOUT THIS GUY. HE'S SO SO GOOOD!!!! GHFGGFHDSETYGFDGG BEST PARTNER, BROTHER, FATHER, BEST EVERYTHING-"

Seriously, the way he struggles with his perception of wrong and right and what he's been told all his life is the right thing versus what he's been shown the right thing is, the way he loves and yearns so deeply but is just as determined to not trouble his love interest with his desires, lest he feels obligated to reciprocate out of (God forbid) gratitude or a sense of debt, the way he grows and learns from his mistakes and becomes a better man in a way that few characters in the novel, or in general fiction, do and is so, so righteous. (Growing up is not easy! And he had a lot of that to do before he could become a partner to WWX, because he didn't exactly treat him as an equal. But he does, and I love that so much!)

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[miniminijiminni]

lan wangji has to be the most interesting character in mdzs to write in a modern au. like. yes, his personality and beliefs chance after he meets wei wuxian, but he changes AGAIN after wei wuxians DEATH!! so like?? who would he be in a non-cultivator modern au??? the possibilities are endless!!!!

[rhymaes]

The Untamed, Eps. 19, 20 // Red, Chase Berggrun

[trans-xianxian]

obsessed w the scene where wei wuxian goes to jinlintai to ask about wen ning, because when he comes in, while he Has sort of crashed their party, he is still, Technically, following all of their social rules. he's polite, and courteous, and respectful. he tries to speak with jin zixun away from everyone else first, he's well spoken and appropriately vague, he doesn't say anything when everyone continues to insult him directly to his face. they all know what he Means but he is, technically, still behaving exactly as a respectable cultivator should. and then it sort of starts to go sideways, and you're like uh oh. we can still make it out of here unscathed tho I bet. he hasn't said anything crazy yet. but then wei wuxian looks jin guangshan in his face and says "please allow me to ask another question - does jin zongzhu think that without the qishan wen sect, lanling jin is supposed to take it's place naturally? so everything should be handed over to you, and everyone should follow your orders?", which is insane,

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Normal Friend Behaviour.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[whetstonefires]

I think a part of the reason I feel so connected to JGY and XY is that I, too, think everyone is lying about what a good person they are. Sure, there may be a few genuinely good people, but those are in the minority and never claim the title.

I don't know about never; some people are pretty straightforward.

And in some ways the whole point of the concept of 'a good person' is that the feeling of losing the right to consider yourself one can impose instinctive recoil from doing wrong, in situations where you don't have the leisure of working your way through an ethics diagram and choosing the logically moral path before reacting to a situation. It has practical utility.

But that system can backfire pretty horribly too, in a lot of ways. It can be hijacked by definitions of 'good' that actually make you recoil from ethical acts because they're deviant. It can lead to disappearing up your own ass lmao.

And definitely the threshold for 'talking about how you're a good person' enough that it makes you suspect as either a) a liar or b) someone who values that self-image over objective reality and other people's wellbeing is. Not very high.

Jin Guangyao, ironically, is one of those people who's so performatively A Good Person in his public life that in retrospect it looks like a red flag. Which knowing this about himself in an ongoing fashion ofc just reinforces his own cynicism about everyone else lmao.

Even Lan Xichen, who I think he may see as a genuinely good person, he also sees as an easy mark who will reliably choose what is comfortable over what is 'right,' if you just structure the scenario to make that an easy choice that's easy for him to justify.

Xue Yang's bitterness is in many ways more exciting than Jin Guangyao's because he has a way more unusual relationship to reality, but it does share a lot of notes.

The role of deception in his psychology fascinates me because as far as I can tell he's as instinctively straightforward a person as Lan Wangji, albeit along quite different lines involving a total lack of impulse control, but has adopted 'deceit' as a weapon against the wicked world in the same way he has adopted 'murder.'

But when he feels someone is not merely lying but papering over bad behavior with principles they are not living up to he is livid.

People claiming to be better than him because they're 'good' when 'good' is a construct of privilege, is the underlying idea he's not equipped to articulate. Except he takes that and applies it to 'hitting me to interrupt my random murder of some guy who happened to be within arm's reach when I wanted to hurt someone.'

Which isn't like philosophically perfect, but the underlying problem he's actually reacting to is that he understands the social contract as a lie that has never protected him but seeks to control him, while protecting rich men it has no power to control.

Which it is fair to be mad about, but then his feeling is that since that's the nature of the world and all people, he is entitled to amass for himself the power to inflict hurt without consequences as much as he possibly can, and to use it against the vulnerable for fun, and no one is entitled to interfere.

Which brings him to a place where he is violently angry at anyone talking about trying to treat other people well as a value, because either they're a hypocrite and a liar or they threaten his entire system of rationalization for why he can be The Worst and still In The Right.

'Everyone is equally bad, actually' is like, an understandable take for anyone who's had cause to become embittered. Everyone is free to make whatever philosophical peace they can with the world and by and large there's no ethical weight to any such opinion, in itself.

But it's an ideological crutch people tend to wind up leaning on very heavily when they can't or don't want to take responsibility for their own behavior.

Which is an approach that Xue Yang, Jin Guangyao, and Su She all share, and which not only is shitty of them, it...traps them in a wheel of doubling down on their own worst impulses because rather than going 'that was bad and I shouldn't do it again' they've repeatedly invested all this energy into making what they did actually the correct thing, according to their interpretation of the context. Which means they're more likely to do it again.

(I think this is how Jin Guangyao became a serial killer, for example. He followed a doing-a-murder-impulse and then internally doubled down on how he had nothing to be ashamed of, so he was more likely to do it again, every time.

Wei Wuxian's strain of self-righteousness about his revenge was less...thorough than Jin Guangyao's, because he had the benefit of going after people on the opposite side of a war from him while Meng Yao's first known murder plot was against a shitty boss. But it probably didn't help him not try to solve army-shaped problems with mass murder, even after that stopped being allowed.)

If any of them had just like, zero moral sensibilities they would have created very different problems, and very possibly fewer of them. It's making a central goal of your operations 'self-vindication in your own internal narrative, created retroactively via reframing' rather than 'figuring out what I think I should do and trying to do that' that traps them in the self-reinforcing murder pissbaby vortex.

So if you look at it one way, these three villains are themselves perfect examples of how pursuit of the 'feeling of being good' (or at least 'not the bad guy') can make you worse.

Notably Wei Wuxian was also extremely sensitive to hypocrisy in his youth; it was the only part of Madam Yu's behavior he was ever shown objecting to. But he's sufficiently mellow and cynical from regret and burnout by the 'present' timespan after his resurrection to just get disgusted and alienated about it, rather than outraged.

He wasn't even all that mad at Xue Yang, though honestly that may be partly because he stopped entirely characterizing him as a person at some point during their interaction. Like, there's no point being angry at someone whose moral sensibilities operate exclusively on the plane of 'is this unfair to me' for manipulating and destroying people who were good to him, and then getting obsessed with his own self-pity about it. This is not a person who understands how not to be, metaphorically speaking, a cannibal.

And Wei Wuxian did know better and still got roughly the same result, so what business does he have getting angry?

Anyway yeah those two villains are both delightfully relatable if you sit down and put their perspectives together; they are clearly operating with the same basic suite of human needs and emotions as everybody else, without that being in itself particularly exculpatory, which is honestly refreshing. They've just got the most fantastically toxic interpersonal habits that knowing them counts as some level of Suffering A Curse.

Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang do both stand as scathing rebukes of the society that created them. But within the narrative, wherein they're people, the fact is that each of them had agency and one of the things they chose to do with it was develop rationales for why they were the most special little guy and everything was someone else's fault.

And their moral nihilisms, while also grounded in serious trauma, ping me as emotional masturbation of this variety.

[dearmyloveleys]

every time people in the jianghu point their fingers at wwx and scream DemONNNNNNN HERETIC POWERS, I'm there like: dude did u think wwx wanted to go down this path?? :)))

homeboy just wanted to see the people closest to him safe, drink good alcohol, protect the weak, duel for fun, fly on his sword, catch chicken and fish, train disciples, travel around on night hunts

every time they ask why he doesn't carry his sword anymore, I just wonder how much he is actually hurting on the inside. the fact that he probably would have largely stayed the way he was as a student at cloud recesses if the war never happened also hurts a lot