#bakudeku discourse

[theweeklydiscourse]

God forbid you ever criticize the lack of consequences Bakugou experiences in MHA, or suddenly you’ll find dozens of Bakugou stans pouring into your mentions to make a speech about how cruel you are for forcing him to eat cement. They’ll act as though “consequences” inherently involves throwing him into the dungeon or putting him in detention for 100 years and then moan about how him facing consequences would only perpetuate a cycle of abuse/discrimination.

Listen, it’s not really that much of a consequence if the “consequence” in question isn’t directly connected to his current or past bad behaviour. “Oh but his scars!” “When he died that one time!” “His guilt for getting kidnapped” None of those are related to his bullying, and in my opinion, that makes them insufficient as consequences in an arc about changing for the better.

The consequences I would actually like to see could be as simple as: Izuku feels sad/mad because of what he went through, or certain characters reflect on how Bakugou’s past impacts their perception of him. More introspection on the victim’s end is needed, Bakugou doesn’t necessarily need to be pilloried for the arc to be satisfying.

[chandralia]

IM GONNA BE SICK SHDKDHSSJSH Hori’s really saving him for last,, we’ve got panels of every single character guiding Deku, cheering him on, pushing him through… except Bakugo?

we’re about to get something so incredible

[rirururu]

Bakugou in chapter 1 said his goal was to become the number one hero and the richest person in the world. He was adamant that Deku couldn't do anything without a quirk.

He went from that to working his butt off for 8 years and spending his entire life savings to give adult quirkless Deku his dream of being a hero back. And expecting nothing in return except the wish that they can "compete and chase each other for the rest of their lives." 😭

Bakugou Katsuki grew so much. I will miss such an amazing character. 🥹

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[oshawottmain]

As a multishipper, I didn't care who Deku ultimately ended up with. I just wanted him to be happy. So I'm glad everything's working out in the end.

Please, let's not fight. As always, if canon doesn't live up to your expectations, fanon is always there, but there's no need to crash out or complain or try to undermine anything just because you don't like or disagree with it. Let's just enjoy our favorite fandom together.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

this showed up on my feed and.. two things.

1. bakudeku are NOT childhood friends to enemies to lovers idk what show this person watched. bakugou and izuku were NOT friends at any point. bakugou was izuku's bully and it stayed that way until the present timeline.

they also never become enemies, they were not even rivals, the rivalry was purely imagined by bakugou, while izuku always tried to stay on good terms with him.

do people not know what "enemies" or "rivals" mean anymore? it doesn't work that way if the aggression and animosity is one-sided.

2. same goes for c//a. they were friends, sure, but catra was adora's abuser at the same time. and while they could be called enemies while they were on opposing sides, like bakugou, catra was the one who imagined a betrayal and used it as an excuse to continue hurting adora.

i do agree with the fact that these two ships are similar though. they're both instances of abuse being glorified and the abusers treated like cute little tsundere babies.

[deranged-fandom-quotes-archive]

Children throwing tantrums when adults read material made by/for adults in a fandom space made by/for adults about objects that don't exist. You are a guest here, mind your own business. Your tantrums aren't going to change a thing in regards to fandom, bkdk or mha.

[catboytenya]

As someone who follows both the bakudeku and izuocha tags you guys are fucking making these tags entirely unusable because of these stupid ship wars. Shut the fuck up. Blacklisting the leak tags isn't even working. Go fucking roll down a hill so as much of your body can touch grass as possible. Like actually. And stop screaming at each other about fictional ships. It is not that deep it will never be that deep. Let people enjoy shit and enjoy your shit stop making this a huge damn fight every single month. I'm pissed, man. It's bad enough shipping one of the ships and seeing all the bullshit fighting but I'm in fucking hell shipping both of them. What's your guys' fucking issue? Like actually? Both sides are the fucking issue I'm so fucking sick of it. At least stop putting your damn ship wars in the main tags. I'm trying to find cute fucking art and fics and shit, not petty arguments. Go look at a tree. Look at the sky. Marvel at the wonder of the natural world and remember that none of this shit matters in the long run. Go point at a cloud and go "that looks like a bunny."

[katsmtmsdoodles]

Reblog for bigger sample size! Based on this post by @rigorwhoring

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 4

[dust-jacket-analysis]

With the recent potential developments in the My Hero Cannon lately, shipping discourse is at an all time high. Spoilers, by the way.

Izuocha is allegedly made canon in some sort of final chapter of My Hero. And the Togachako and Bakudeku shippers are screaming, crying, throwing up. The Izuocha shippers are ecstatic, and everyone else is watching this absolute dumpster fire of a situation develop. And with this all, some feelings have been spun up. So I'm gonna talk about it.

First and foremost, Izuocha was always going to be canon. Sorry, not sorry. It was implied from the get go. Right off the bat a mutual crush was confirmed. While it focused more on Ochako's feelings, Deku definitely felt the same as the series progressed. All the blushing and awkward tension was there. And I say this not to invalidate the other ships, we'll get too that. But because this is pure fact I want established.

Now, it being well written, is another story. Obviously My Hero was never intended to be a romance. It is a Shonen anime, mainly action. While also making social commentary on corrupt governments, and discriminatory social systems. Those were always the main themes and points of the series. With Bakugou and Deku's complicated dynamic being second to that, and everything else prioritized after this. so naturally Izuku and Ochako's romantic relationship would not be as focused on. Hence why it's writing is not as good. It's just important to clarify this.

Which brings us to my actual main gripe with the whole situation. The way this fandom is invalidating not only just shipping, but relationship dynamics as a whole. And I've seen this with a LOT of fandoms. People tend to find they're OTP and stick to it. Buying their heads in the sand like Ostrich's when it comes to any other dynamics those two characters may have. People will say "My ship makes the most sense, and all the other ships are ridiculous," or, "I can't see them being anything more than platonic. My ship however, is meaningful and romantic."

That all lowkey pisses me off. Because when pushing that we forget a key detail of the human experience. As we go through our lives we meet hundreds of people. Form hundreds of group and individual dynamics, forge relationships with these different people we meet.

It's the beauty of being creatures with consciousness. Because we don't just meet someone, breed and die. We meet so many people who are all unique in their wants and desires. Different life goals and motivations. Different experiences that've shaped them.

Toga met Ochako. A girl who understood her more than anyone she'd met before. Who didn't see her just as the villain she'd become, but the girl she'd been and was still. A connection that meant something. But she also had the League of Villains, and Twice. People she'd found home and family in. As twisted as it was. Another meaningful connection in her life.

Bakugou Deku's dynamic is a huge section of conflict throughout the story. Despite that though, through all their ups and downs, they help each other grow. Become better Hero's and, in Bakugous case specifically, better people. It's meaningful. But Bakugou also meets Kirishima. One of the first people to ignore his threats and anger, her shouting. To put himself next to Bakugou and say "I want to be your equal. Your friend." And Kirishima plays a big role in softening Bakugou. And Bakugou helps Kirishima with his confidence. It's meaningful.

Just like how Deku and Todoroki's dynamic is important for both. Deku helps Todoroki to understand he does not have to hide parts of himself to spite his father. "It's yours! Your quirk, not his!" It's a huge break through for Todoroki. And in turn Todoroki is one of the people that helps Deku realize he can ask for help, he can lean on his friends. That needing support isn't weak (a lesson Deku also helped him learn), and that it doesn't make you a bad hero.

And Deku and Ochako. She's one of the first people to truly believe in him. To look at him and say he will make a good hero. One of his first friends. And Deku helps Ochako in that same way. He also inspires her to work harder and eventually she realizes she wants to be a rescue based Hero.

But Ochako also meets Toga. A girl cast out by society for her quirk, which she uses unashamedly. It helps Ochako see villains in a different light. One of empathy and understanding. While she still wishes to hold them accountable, she now sees the circumstances for how villain's are made. And she makes it her life to help other Children with quirks like Toga's to not become villains through quirk counseling. It's meaningful. All of these different dynamics shape the characters in different aspects of their lives and personality. Each dynamic is important, just as much so as the next. Whether platonic, romantic, or otherwise. They mattered. To invalidate that because it's not a ship you like is asinine.

Also, people can fall in love with more than one person. Toga fell in love for both Deku and Ochako, on different levels. And I argue Ochako did the same. Deku can love Ochako, Bakugou and Todoroki too. Bakugou can love Deku and Kirishima. People can fall in love more than once, regardless of who ends up with who.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what's canon. It never has. Fandom has never cared or let it hinder the way it operates on tumblr, ao3, etc. You still get meaningful dynamics in the source material. Relationships that shaped the characters and their story.

[kiisaes]

Are you a BKDK or a DKBK?

i guess i'm both ? or neither ? hell if i know i just ship them together. i don't care about this fandom's t/b discourse, they barely even kiss in my art

(though this is mostly a skill issue on my end. i can't draw kissing)

[gobvo]

Just coming back here to say…

I fucking warned y’all!

Dropped mha awhile ago and I’m glad I did, seeing how it’s honoring its title as green Boruto’s dad.

I fucking told y’all that it wouldn’t be canon. If those supposed leaks are true (they seem legit to me) then I was right all along! Frankly I’m not surprised.

We’ll probably be worm food before we ever see a gay/bi/queer shonen protagonist.

[chandralia]

can’t wait to throw up next episode

[rirururu]

Can we talk about how this entire My Hero Academia season 7 stage preview panel was just the voice actors/actresses of Izuku, Katsuki, Toga, Ochako, and Shigaraki discussing Bakudeku and Togachako for 50 minutes? 😭 These screenshots were certainly a choice.

We're getting close to endgame. Season 7 or 8 will probably be the last season. We know Horikoshi had recently confided in Bones on what the ending of MHA was going to be so they could start the production process sooner. Now there's a sudden shift of promotional material and interest towards these two ships in particular which is-- interesting.

Izuocha also briefly appear in the stage discussion but only at around the 40 minute mark near the end. They also made sure to put those screenshots below the Bakudeku apology scene. No hate towards Izuocha of course. I'm just saying: this is not how you treat a pairing in marketing if they were meant to be endgame.

Does this mean anything? Probably not. We've all sung this song before with shounen manga and been hurt in the past. But Bakudeku and Togachako might actually stand a chance here. Regardless if this comes true, I'll still love both pairings and appreciate the time these VAs took to discussing them.

[owlbloop]

Y'all, the ending sucked, but not because Deku and Ochaco(please say that's spelled right) held hands. Bakudeku was never going to be canon, take the internet rule of canon only matters at much as you let it to heart.

Still, it does hurt to see a story with so much potential fall apart. There was so much that could have been said, so many paths it could have taken, that were so much more consequential and impactful then the route Hori chose.

Can't wait to(hopefully) see ao3 come to the rescue

[red-sneakers]

When I first started shipping bkdk, I was like, “Welp. Guess I have my first toxic ship lol. It’s fine, not everything I enjoy reading about in fiction has to be something I’d endorse in real life.”

See, I latch on to a favorite character, and I just want them to get what they want (even if I’d advise them otherwise if they were my friend irl). And from my perspective, Katsuki was what Izuku wanted from the beginning.

But now in the manga, after everything Katsuki and Izuku have been through, and all the growth they’ve done both together and separately, I’m like,

“Oh no it’s nolonger toxic?? Have I been fandom brainwashed, or is this… Actually one of the greatest love stories of all time?”