#shipping culture

[anonymousqualities]

Normies need to understand, there's no logic to shipping culture-we're all DELUSIONAL and very okay with that.

[nekrotiize]

If a character is a Gay Stereotype, and/or says they are Gay, people will get mad at you if you change their sexuality.

If a character is a Lesbian Stereotype, and/or says they are Lesbian, people will get mad at you if you change their sexuality.

If a character is an Aro/Ace Stereotype, and/or says they are Aro/Ace, then actually it doesn’t really count as representation, anyway, because it’s a joke! Besides, aros and aces can date and have sex just like normal people, so it doesn’t really matter anyway, right? Why are you even bringing this character’s sexuality up? It’s not relevant. God, you’re such a killjoy, just ship and let ship! I mean, no one really cares, right? No one that matters, anyway.

And people wonder why Aros/Aces can get so mean sometimes…

[noperopesaredope]

I recently watched a video talking about what your favorite Mouthwashing ship says about you (spoilers: most of them are bad), and one thing I explained in the comments that I think is important to explain to certain people (in general with a lot of fandoms, tbh) is that a lot of shippers in the fandom understand that these relationships would not be good and are in fact deeply unhealthy, but perhaps that's the point.

Like, most of the Jambone x Curly shippers I've seen don't like the ship because it's cute or good, but because it's narratively interesting and would be extremely compelling to see. I honestly get it even if I'm not super interested in it. Jildo and Curly already have an extremely interesting and unhealthy relationship dynamic. It is heavily implied that JarJar acts very emotionally abusive towards Curly, belittling and manipulating him frequently and likely damaging his confidence and ability to stand up to people. But he is also obsessed with Curly in a very fascinating way.

Meanwhile, Curly has not only been friends with Jimbo for a long time, but has a fatal flaw of being too loyal and passive for his own good. As many have said, Curly is like a golden retriever in both a good and bad way.

Curly is Jackass' victim and enabler at the same time, which is why he is one of my favorite characters in the game. You both feel bad for him but also understand that he really fucked up and a lot of stuff is his fault. His most endearing traits are also some of his worst traits. Again, the golden retriever comparison is very accurate. He is friendly and loyal and believes the best in everyone (and very cute), but that loyalty and belief in everyone are also his fatal flaws.

He enables Jello because he thinks that there is good in him, and like a dog, he sees no wrong with most people no matter what they do (until it's far too late). I can't remember the fic I saw this in, but one good line I saw once was something along the lines of: "You believe in people and see nothing wrong with them no matter what until they abandon you at the park in the middle of the night." Curly sees no wrong in his friend because that's the type of person he is, and while it can be cute, it's also dangerous.

It can also often be detrimental to himself, as we see Juice be cruel to him as well, yet Curly excuses it as just Jizz being Jizz. He doesn't see anything wrong with the way he is treated, making him become desensitized to Jive's behavior and seeing it as not a big deal.

I think Curly's status as both victim and enabler would be interesting under the context of an abusive romantic relationship. There is an even greater power imbalance present, and Jojo may do a lot worse things as a result and be a lot more controlling and manipulative. He could be more physically and verbally abusive, make more threats, and even be sexually abusive (since he is canonically a rapist already, and hates Curly more than he hates Anya, thus he would probably put more aggressive hate into it). The whole relationship would be horrible and disturbing, but also interesting to see.

I love fics exploring their unhealthy friendship, so seeing it as an unhealthy romantic relationship could be even crazier to see.

~~~~~~

There's also the nuances of Anya x Curly. Most people ship it specifically in the context of AUs where Curly actually stands up for Anya and helps her out. Their dynamic as characters could be really cute, especially if he puts in the work to protect her.

I personally find the potential of post-crash Anya x Curly to be interesting as hell. I generally find their non-romantic dynamic post-crash to be interesting enough on its own, but I also think it could be absolutely crazy if they developed romantic feelings because those feelings would develop from some really unhealthy places for the most part.

I see Anya as someone who still holds some resentment towards Curly, but also sees herself in him and feels he doesn't deserve what happened to him. Maybe at one point seeing him go through something similar to what she went through might feel a little cathartic, but anything after that is too much to her. She is also his primary caretaker and a nurse, so she feels responsible for his wellbeing and wants to take care of him. She also seems to read and talk to him a lot, which probably feels nice because she can have some company while also being safe because Curly is not in a position to be able to hurt her. Anya doesn't exactly develop proper feelings for him per say, but she still uses him as a bit of an emotional crutch of sorts and becomes very attached to him because of it.

Meanwhile, Curly feels deeply guilty for not helping Anya and feels she deserves better. He believes she has no reason to care for him, but chooses to anyway, and thus he is extremely grateful towards her, possibly idolizing her to a certain degree. He slowly develops his own weird feelings, seeing himself as unworthy of her kindness and wanting the best for her, while also being dependent on her, even if it's in a more direct way.

They never get together or even realize that they themselves have feelings for each other since those feelings are #messy, but do form a weird codependent relationship of sorts. I've seen some cool fanart of Anya hugging/holding onto post-crash Curly, and it made me think about the potential this whole dynamic has and how unhealthy it could be, both for Anya and Curly. I believe they would not work out or be healthy (though probably better than Jazzy x Curly), but could be interesting narratively.

~~~~~~

Basically, what I'm trying to explain is that a lot of people don't ship certain Mouthwashing ships because they think it's good or want to romanticize it, but because it is narratively compelling and can explore complex dynamics more.

[bloggingboutburgers]

Y'all are persistent huh

I know when I'm beat

[nekropsii]

Wild how when I call Shipping Culture oppressively pervasive and awful for any Aro/Ace with the gall to enjoy anything on the Internet, I get called a Fun-Hating Killjoy and told to just shut the fuck up or off myself, no matter how mild or polite my comment is. Wild how when I say a character either is textually Aro/Ace or is easier to read as Aro/Ace than Alloromantic/sexual, people start talking down to me like I'm a child who doesn't know anything, saying "Friendly reminder that Aro(s)/Aces can Date/Have Sex too, just like us Normal People!". As if I don't know anything about my own identity. Wild how when I do either of these things or even just say I'm not into a pairing or uninvested in shipping in general people call me fucking homophobic, even if the (at least popularly perceived - let's be honest, people are wrong half the time) genders of the characters is never once made relevant. Even though their reasoning for me being homophobic is lack of investment in a gay pairing they like, and nothing more. Wild how people throw little baby tantrums at even the gentlest criticism of Shipping Culture, or someone choosing not to engage heavily in it. Wild how they have the audacity to ask, with hostility, what the fuck Aro(s)/Aces are talking about when they say Shipping Culture is hostile to Aro/Ace fans, or ask what's wrong with them when they say that they aren't into Shipping.

It's almost like Bigots don't realize they're being Bigots when they do Bigotry, so just saying you're not a Bigot isn't enough. It's almost like Aro/Ace people know what the hell they're talking about. It's almost like we have a fucking point. It's almost like we're valid in expressing contempt and frustration with the constant expectation to engage with Romance and Sexuality at every waking moment, even if we're Romance and/or Sex Favorable. It's almost like we're tired of getting our identities erased, and we're tired of expecting to "act normal", and we're tired of just taking it when Allos use the Favorable members of our communities as a scapegoat for why they should be allowed to totally erase any of our representation just for their "Harmless Queer Fun" - deliberately, and I mean DELIBERATELY, failing to recognize or acknowledge the character's orientation, and how an A-Spec's personal relationship with and expressions of Love are going to look drastically different from an Allo person's - and call us the Bigots when we even glance in the direction of objection.

It's almost like Allo/Amatonormativity are oppressive forces.

Alloromantics/sexuals are constantly looking for any reason they can to call Aro(s)/Aces unloving, unfeeling, frigid, soulless, cruel. Inhuman. They're looking for any reason they can to call us whiny children, stupid, people who "just haven't found the right one", addressing us only as "Works in Progress", or someone who can have their sexuality corrected with the right stimulus - Conversion Therapy and Corrective Rape are okay when it happens to us, after all. Any reason at all to call us heartless monsters. AlloAces are confused children. They can be fixed. AroAllos are manipulative, unfeeling sexual predators. They can't be fixed - just kill them. AroAces are frigid, mean bitches. They can be fixed. God forbid you're Aplatonic. God forbid you're part of the Repulsed spectrum. God forbid you're one of the Loveless. God forbid you hold any pride in your identity, God forbid you don't keep your mouth shut, God forbid you critique the overinflated importance Allos place onto Love as a concept. God forbid you critique something as asinine and juvenile as fucking Shipping Culture. Do any one of these and you've put a bright red, blazing neon target on your back.

Wild how the only real humans amongst us are the Romance, Sex, and Friendship Favorable who put their head down and mask as Allo, and side with the Allos when their fellow A-Specs get too loud for the comfort of their Allo friend's delicate little fee-fees. After all, Vitriol and Harassment are warranted when an Allo's feelings get slightly hurt that an Aro person says, on their own account, to no one in particular, that they're sick of every tag being 80% Shipping Content. Which is a vehemently evil personal attack, clearly.

Wild.

[ammoknightsofficial]

While the abject hostility to storytelling, mind bogglingly forthcoming bigotry, the valuing of shipping above all else, and general severe tone deafness is not at all a new invention by the Mouthwashing fandom - nor is the visibility or severity of all of these things - I deeply, sincerely hope that the criticism that the spotlight being put on the Mouthwashing fandom for this stuff can maybe pave a sturdy path towards the criticism of fandom as a whole, and shipping culture as well.

For many years, people have been acting as though fandom + shipping culture are fun, wholesome, welcoming for everyone, and entirely devoid of negative politics. That is why it has been defended viciously and endlessly from even the most minor of criticism. The reality is that it has always been deeply hostile to marginalized people. Misogyny isn’t new to fandom. Rape apologia isn’t new to fandom. Ableism isn’t new to fandom. Homophobia isn’t new to fandom. Transphobia isn’t new to fandom. Racism isn’t new to fandom. They’ve been overbearing, oppressive forces in fandom and shipping culture for decades - no matter how hard people want to try to say that fandom is for the marginalized, it has literally always been overtly and covertly hostile to the existence of every single minority group.

I’m glad I’m seeing people actually talk about it for once. Often, when you open these kinds of discussions, people will shut you down or chase you off social media entirely. Do not stop talking. Because no, we shouldn’t be seeing wholesome AUs of a rape victim being forced to carry her rapist’s baby to term and happily raising it. No, we shouldn’t be seeing people say that a canonical male rapist is a trans woman, or is a closeted gay man who would have been “fixed by sodomy”. No, we shouldn’t be seeing cutesy art and videos about a disabled man being given talking button mats made for literal dogs in lieu of an actual AAC device. You’re right, this shit is fucked up… And it’s even worse that plenty of fandom members in different communities got away scot free with doing similar or worse things. We should be talking about this. We should be talking about how fandoms generally protect this kind of behavior. And we should start throwing hands at this behavior more and more often.

Fandoms are never going to be “fun for everyone”, nor are they going to be welcoming to the marginalized, until we start making an effort to deconstruct the way it further marginalizes people, and recognize when fan content goes beyond the realm of “harmless fun”.

Remember: Just because it’s free doesn’t mean it’s above criticism.

[theficlistpodcast]

Canon? What canon?

[bungouchronicles]

I like my ships doomed by the narrative

[amazing-spiderlad]

This is my favourite relationship dynamic if anyone was wondering

[heartless-aro]

“Aros can still date!”

Yes, they can. But do you actually make an effort to learn about the experiences of partnering and romance favorable aros, or do you just use them as a gotcha whenever people explain how your words and actions contribute to aromantic erasure? When you write romance involving aromantic characters, are you actually making an effort to acknowledge how their aromanticism might affect the way they would approach a romantic relationship, or are you writing them as an alloromantic character while tacking on the disclaimer that “it’s okay, because some aros date!”?

Are you shipping those aromantic characters because you’re interested in reading and/or writing stories about those aromantic characters navigating romantic relationships that may involve little to no romantic attraction? Are you interested in seeing those characters explore how their aromanticism affects what romance means to them and what their boundaries are in a romantic relationship? Or are you going to ignore their aromanticism altogether and reimagine aromantic characters in a way that conforms to amatonormative and allonormative notions of what a person’s life and relationships should look like?

The problem with shipping aromantic characters isn’t just that it’s often done with characters who are pretty heavily implied to be romance averse. It isn’t just that some people who ship aromantic characters are treating the characters’ aromanticism as an nothing more than an obstacle to their ships rather than treating aromantic representation as something worth celebrating in its own right. It’s also the fact that a lot of people in fandom spaces treat partnering and romance favorable aromantics as being “basically alloromantic” instead of actually respecting the identities and experiences of romance favorable and partnering aros.

[winterr-w0nderland]

Seen a lot of ship bingos so I made my own

[nekrotiize]

I do think a pretty noteworthy part of the Overwhelming Fandom Fixation on Gay Men - or, rather, their Heteronormative idea of what Gay Men are like - has less to do with Covert Homophobia (though that is a large element) and more to do with the Elimination of Women from discussion.

A lot of Fandom Depictions of Gay Men are debilitatingly Heterosexual - one man is put into the role of the "Real Man", being a masculine, older, stronger, taller, more capable 'Top', while the other is put into a "Pseudo-Woman" role of being more feminine, younger, weaker, smaller, and more helpless 'Bottom'. The depiction of the relationships of Gay Men in Fandom has a fixation on removing the Identity and Implication of Gay Men and what it means to be a Gay Man in reality, merely using Homosexuality - or, "Sodomy", as some so gracefully unironically call it - as a kind of "Taboo" Seasoning to otherwise entirely standard M/F Dynamics. M/F Dynamics + Relationships, in many Fandom Spaces, are looked down upon heavily, as are F/F Dynamics + Relationships. This is because Fandom has an incredibly strong track record of being Intensely, Unabashedly Misogynistic. Fandom Spaces tend to want to avoid even basic acknowledgment of Women as much as physically possible. Commodifying Gay Men is a useful way to ensure that you do not ever have to acknowledge that Women exist, all while for the most part avoiding accusations of Bigotry - because, hey, look! I'm not a Bigot! Look at all the times I've acknowledged Gay Men exist!

[noperopesaredope]

"It's not about the CANONICAL chemistry. Canon can go fuck itself. It's about the POTENTIAL for chemistry. It's about the fact that, had things gone just a little differently, had they gotten just a little more screentime together, they would be in a serious relationship."

-- Me explaining rarepairs and crackships and stuff to my sib

[bloggingboutburgers]

the more I read questions and answers on your blog about medias and how every single characters out there gets shipped together because that's-how-shit-goes™, the more im considering making ace media myself. we gotta do everything in this house! Reminds me of that time I made the conscious decision to make 99% of my characters and stories LGBT, just to make heterobaiting on the people aorund me 😈

We really DO have to do everything in this house huh 😈

I get it tho. It's definitely tempting. Especially for underrepresented identities where you can be like "heyo surprise those exist". I myself have been tempted to someday write a story about a main character who has trouble making friends, finally making a friend, getting close, and then having to face terrible heartbreak when it turns out said 'friend' wants a romantic and sexual relationship and MC is actually aroace and just... Actually wanted a friend. Idk. No idea if anyone would be up for reading it and it'd be hard to write but still

[andy-wm]

People on the bird all saying that loco represents the rap line members in the video, you know because he is a rapper and Jimin is in love with Yoongi/Joon and Hobi…(insert them all) and then there is Tae and Jin too can’t forget he’s in a relationship with them too.. not JK though, never him.

then this comes out today…

https://x.com/jikooking13/status/1807264881785372911

and he walks away!! He walks away from loco 😆

he really said nope.. I’ve got a plane to catch with my baby

That speaks volumes to me, that’s so purposeful, he walks away! It’s too late, the truth untold, you have to speak your truth before it’s too late and all the other members he gets shipped with, it’s too late!!

and he flew to Tokyo with Jungkook the next day

😭

https://x.com/kmgoogiemini/status/1807196544396939565

Hey Anon, I love that Jimin chose to have a rapper-hyung figure with him in this video, and yes, i made that connection too.

(And i hope Joon, Yoongi and Hoba saw it. They know their importance in Jimin's life)

But its so obvious that there's no romantic relationship between jimin and this rapper-hyung.

Of course Loco is tickled by Jimin. Jimin is delightful.

Jimin embroils Loco in all his shenanigans, and Loco particiates willingly, because he's Jimin's good friend. But there's no question that's where it ends. Jimin doesn't doesnt even look at Loco when his dance is over, he walks away without looking back. You are absolutely right. Jimin has somewhere to be.

Jimin's relationship with his rap line hyungs is beautiful. They dote on him.

I'd LOVE to have 3 older brothers who adored me the way these guys adore Jimin. Hell, we all need some of that in our lives.

He is loved by them the way a delightful younger sibling should be loved.

Just for the record, I'm not unaware of the fact that Yoongi sometimes looks at Jimin a certain way. I'm not judging him. Give the guy a break he's only human after all.

But i don't think they're together, and i certainly dont ship them.

And that brings me neatly to the whole shipping thing...

Let me be super clear in this:

I don't ship Jimin and Jungkook.

I never have.

I'll say it again.

I do not, and never have, shipped Jimin and Junkgook.

I believe based on evidence that they are lovers, or physically intimate friends, or *insert self-defined term used by Jimin and Jungkook* and I support their relationship.

I support it - whatever it is - 150%

I delight in seeing their interactions and (admittedly) I probably spend WAY too much time thinking about the complexities of their intertwined lives.

But that's not the same as shipping. Shipping is fantasising. It's investing in an imagined relationship.

I sure as hell am not imagining this...

💜