#and what about the aros who really are experiencing romantic love for the first time? now it’s uncomfy scrolling through feeds of romance

[mirokata]

I love the proud aromantic spirit going around this aromantic spectrum awareness week, but we don’t need love to loose for our happiness yknow

just like how aroallos don’t need love to win for us for their happiness (even if they might complain about it eg. “why don’t you have a partner yet”)

we don’t gotta keep saying “love loses” as if every single aromantic person out there doesn’t love love. some don’t, that’s true and valid. let me remind you of the main definition of the word: “a person who experiences little to no romantic attraction”

“little to no romantic attraction.”

it isn’t even about love in the first place, it’s about romantic attraction. there are many other forms of love out there whether we experience it or not, and some can be beautiful. so in my humble opinion, we don’t need to say “love loses” to feel confident and happy with my aromantic identity.

[allastoredeer]

Hello, don't mind me, I just need to vent for a second.

First off, I just wanna say, as an aroace person on the ace-spectrum, feel free to ship Alastor all you want. Ship him with anyone. Have fun with it. Sex repulsed. Non-sex repulsed. Grey-ace. Demisexual. Pure unadulterated smut. Whatever, have at it. I love that shit.

Just please do it without infantilizing ace-aro people.

The amount of art, fics, and takes I've come across that's so patronizing to Alastor and his sexuality. Thing's like Alastor venting to Rosie about his feelings for a character with the caption "Alastor feeling love for the first time." Or Alastor wanting to have sex with a character and having feelings about that, and someone commenting "That's called a boner, sweetheart. That means you like them 🤭"

Like??? Like do ya'll not see how patronizing that sounds? Being ace-aro doesn't mean you don't know your own body. It doesn't mean you don't understand the functions of your body.

It doesn't mean you've never experienced intense emotions. It doesn't mean you've never experienced love before.

And, look, I know these are meant to be jokes. I know. People are joking. I laughed at the first few I came across, too. It's not meant to be harmful or condescending; no one means it that way. But there's been so much with such...bad takes recently, and I don't know about any other ace-spec people (I don't speak for all ace-specs. Hell, there are probably other ace-spec's who don't mind, enjoy it, or are making content like it themselves. I just speak for myself) but GOD it's getting uncomfortable.

Alastor is in his late 30's-early 40's in human years. That is the established age range we have for him. Do you really think that he'd go that long without ever experiencing "love?" He went through puberty just like everyone else, do you think he doesn't understand his own body???

Being asexual, or sex-repulsed, or touch-repulsed doesn't mean you automatically don't explore these parts of yourself. It doesn't mean he's never, once in his life, touched his own dick, or pussy, or whatever genitalia you're giving him. He can still very well be a "virgin" (which in and of itself is a social construct) while also knowing his body and confidently handling any "sexual needs" he has.

Do you really think he doesn't know what a boner is? That in all the years he's been alive and dead (on Earth and in Hell), he wouldn't have experienced these things once? (And you know what? Maybe he hasn't! Perhaps there are ace's out there like that! But you're telling me he doesn't KNOW what that is??? Really???)

Ah, no, it's all because he just hasn't found the right person yet, right? It's not until Lucifer/Angel Dust/Vox, whoever found him, and they gave him these feelings, and oh no, poor Bambi is feeling twitterpated and horny for the first time, isn't that romantic!

Honestly, not really. It just sounds like the same, stupid shit ace-aro people hear from family, friends, and acquaintances about their sexuality. You know, the tried and true: "Oh, you just haven't found the right person yet. You'll want all that eventually, you'll see😊"

Do you not see how frustrating that is?

Look, I am all down for Alastor exploring parts of himself. I want him to navigate different relationships, feel them out, figure out what kind of relationship he wants and what he's okay and not okay with doing. But there are ways to do that without treating him like a little UwU silly baby boy who doesn't know his own body, or his own emotions, or his own relationships with other characters. Like he needs someone to teach him about himself.

How about instead, he finds someone he feels comfortable exploring these elements with? Instead of them "teaching" him how to fuck, or masturbate, or whatever the hell you want to call it, they're giving him the room and safe-space to explore it at his own pace??!!

It comes across as someone who isn't on the ace-spectrum "teaching" an ace-spec character about their own sexuality which puts such a gross taste in my mouth. Or, at least, that's how it comes across to me.

And the thing is, I know people aren't going to stop. I know they're going to keep infantilizing Alastor and his aro-ace identity, and I wasn't originally going to make this post, because you can't control what people do in fandom.

So this is mostly just a post to say: HEY! Hello! Ace-aro person here! I hope you all are having fun and I love that you're exploring Alastor's asexual/aromantic identity! Especially those who may not be in the ace-spectrum themselves, as you're learning about us and our experiences! That's awesome! Can we just do that while also treating Alastor like the adult he is? Can we do that without being infantilizing and patronizing about his sexual identity? Please?"

That's all I really wanted to say. I just needed to get this off my chest instead of letting it fester. This isn't an attack on anyone, this is just the perspective of an Alastor multi-shipper who loves exploring his relationships with other characters (sexually and non-sexually) and deep-diving into the dynamics of the show.

Thanks for reading.

[aroaceleovaldez]

thoughts on leo valdez? headcdanons? i

[stares at own url] ...I'll give you one for free, lol

Aro/ace Leo.... listen. He explicitly states that he plays up his false persona in aspects that he feels are lacking in his actual personality in an effort to make people like him more, and in his POVs we get a lot of him doing acknowledged-as-nonserious joke-flirting as part of his false persona. Guy who doesn't realize he's aspec trying to overcompensate for his lack of attraction by excessively hitting on people to hide that he doesn't feel attraction towards anyone? Him wondering if he's broken in a whole bunch of ways and trying to make up for it externally while having an identity crisis about that? Something something metaphor about him wondering if cause he's a Hephaestus kid he's a little too much like a machine/robot and can't feel love or The Right Emotions In General™ because of that cause he doesn't know about aspec stuff yet (or that he's autistic)? Can anyone hear me.

Related to that: Leo landing on Ogygia (island of unreciprocated love) and meeting Calypso, who (probably through love magic) actually seems to be attracted to him? And him trying to force himself to reciprocate because he figures that's just how it's supposed to go and maybe for once he's actually experiencing romantic love? And he's so desperate for someone to like him and to feel useful to someone (re: 7th wheel)? But it fizzles out almost immediately after they leave the island, because the heart-eyes wear off for Calypso, especially once she technically no longer needs him, and Leo can't keep up trying to make himself reciprocate (and can't keep up trying to put his mask back up for her, especially now that Calypso seems to actually care about it). I am literally always thinking about this.

Short king,,, I don't care what anybody says he is NOT 5'6" that is way too tall for him. My guy is 5'5" absolute maximum. I usually place him at 5'3". Tiny guy. Made of pipecleaners. Built like Bilbo Baggins...

I've mentioned it before in a couple of places (i know [here] at least) but I did not like his fake-out death in BoO. Also I'm just mad about his dropped character arc(s) in general. My ideal substitute is that instead of dying and being revived, Festus just crashes in the woods nearby and Leo has overexerted his powers too much a la Nico's shadow stuff and is nearly dead but once they get him to the infirmary he recovers and can start working on recovering from his whole depression arc too. Also maybe he loses a leg in the crash so he can match his dad just for funsies, and so that there's some amount of consequence to his sacrifice to make up for him not dying (not like in canon there were any consequences to him dying and being revived anyways...). Also something something accidental Hiccup HTTYD joke. Leo with a prosthetic is always fun. More Hephaestus kids with prosthetics.

I am very amused by the concept of Leo never having any romantic attraction to Hazel at all, possibly even negative romantic attraction once he finds out she dated his great-grandpa (especially since in canon like 90% of his thoughts about Hazel are just kind of appreciative and genuinely thinking she's really cool, if a little confusing at first), and Hazel pretty quickly gets over her side of things once she gets used to the fact that this is Definitely Not Sammy, he just Looks Like Sammy (and does not actually act like Sammy, that's just a fake persona that is eerily similar by coincidence. Real Leo is actually quite reserved and not so much of a vocal goofball most of the time). So they're just besties after their mutual weird Sammy vision and understanding the deeper sides to each other and are each other's person they're most comfortable letting their guard down around cause they've formed that level of trust. Except Frank's over in the corner seething cause he thinks this is a love triangle but he's the only one who thinks that. Leo just thinks Frank hates him for the general reasons he thinks everybody hates him (which is just an assumption he's kind of used to and expects from people, so he does not question it at all). Hazel knows Frank thinks Leo is trying to steal her from him but she's having trouble trying to keep the two of them from nearly killing each other. It's a very homestuck auspistice dynamic.

Leo and Frank eventually work out their stuff and become very good friends to meeee... let them bond over their mutual fear of fire and dead mom trauma! they have so many parallels and I want the two of them and Hazel to be a funky cute little trio!

Dragonkin Leo! That boy is a dragon!!!! I usually say his stuff is kind of spiritual origin (he doesn't really know how to explain it other than his soul is just a dragon) versus like Jason being a wolf therian with a more psychological origin (being raised by an immortal wolf pack rubbed off on him) (rip Piper being the only non-alterhuman in their trio LMAO). I imagine whatever type of dragon he is probably is very similar to Festus, which is part of why Leo clicks with Festus so quickly - he just sees himself in Festus and it's very comforting to him. He definitely makes himself some fun 'kin gear, like a nice weighted tail and wings and claws to try and help his phantom shifts feel a lil less wonky. Also him having dragon talon weapons just sounds cool. He also totally makes gear for any other alterhuman demigods.

[kings-highway]

trick or treat !

Aaaaa! Welcome my first knocker

We’ve never interacted so I don’t know anything about you or what you like BUT I do see you have the aromantic flag in your PFP so I’m going to throw my Aro-Kuroo headcanons at you, slightly in ficlet form because I did outline a one-shot based on this idea

Kuroo absolutely went through the “i feel equal attraction to both genders so i MUST be bisexual” phase for like, all of his teenage years, he probably wouldn’t figure it out until he was like 20-21. 

He LOVES romance, and had definitely accidentally burned a lot of bridges with girls/guys throughout his highschool years because I definitely imagine he couldn’t not understand why being in a relationship made him so unhappy, and he ended up being a little mean to his partners. Like he loved the idea of showering someone in gifts and compliments and going on dates and ride-or-dying a soulmate, but every time he started a relationship he experienced a kind of romance-repulsion (definitely is not a romance-favourable ace, can’t stand being in romantic situations) and ended up ghosting them, cutting them off, and ultimately they all broke up with him. 

He, for no reason, convinces himself he’s in love with Yaku because he KNOWS yaku doesn’t like him back and this is Safe (third year, 17-18 years old?)

Kenma absolutely knows he’s not in love with Yaku and questions this constantly. Kuroo uses it to do normal teenage gossip but it makes him really uncomfortable and he changes the topic quickly, so it basically turns into: Kuroo: “I think I’m in love with Yaku.” Kenma: “So, you want to marry him or something?” Kuroo: “WHAT no, ugh, what? I guess? I mean, I wouldn’t be in love with him if I didn’t want to marry him. So yeah. What about it? Whatever.” Kenma: “Well that’s a normal response.”

He constantly fantasizes about falling in love with someone, and definitely has a lot of angst about coming to terms with the aromanticism. I imagine he started to feel this after meeting Karasuno / Daichi, where maybe Daichi was genuinely flirting with him, and Kenma pointed it out and Kuroo immediately panicked and realized he didn’t want Daichi to flirt with him because that would mean Kuroo would end up burning that bridge like he did his earlier girl/boyfriends. Like he’d LOVE to be able to pursue this potentially genuine connection and person that actually likes who he is but he just knows, deep down, that it’s not what he wants. Makes him VERY angst his last few months of high school. Is somehow still jealous when Daichi starts a relationship with someone else. Is also jealous when Yaku starts a relationship with someone else. 

Kenma comes out as gay and Kuroo PANICS thinking Kenma is in love with him

Kuroo lives in fear of Kenma being in love with him

Despite the fact that Kenma might be in love with him, he also understands Kuroo’s identity 100% and supports it. And, to be honest, he kind of likes getting to be Kuroo’s top priority without having to engage in all the romantic stuff (he’s not aromantic, he just doesn’t like obligation or fancy dates)

They settled into a very comfortable QPR, though they never really have a conversation about it, Kuroo is just happy to be in a comfortable, consistent long-term relationship (non-romantically) and Kenma really does love Kuroo (in all the ways that actually matter) but does not feel the need to get married or do anything like that to prove it.)

I also think Kuroo might be asexual in this as well but I just straight up forgot to think about it

ANYWAY happy Halloween!!! I hope you enjoy aro-Kuroo as much as I do <3

[rocketturtle4]

Aceness in BL: Let’s go for a Ramble

(I made this post soon after Be My Favorite finished but shadowbanning has delayed the posting) - I'm Freeee (@plantsarepeopletoo @shouldiusemyname)

So, I’ve been thinking more and more about aceness in BL (mainly BL anyway), and to get my thought’s in order I thought I’d make a post.

This post is NOT intended as a blanket rule in literally any context. It is specifically about how 1. I frame aceness in my head based on very surface level research and my own experience and how 2. I apply that to a few characters (In BL) who, to me, have felt acespec.

This post will cover

A brief overview of how I understand the acespectrum (with reference to aesthetic, romantic and sexual attraction)

How I view demisexuality as a kind of doorway (with reference to my own deminess)

How I feel five characters (Ae from Love by Chance, Arthrit from SOTUS & SOTUS S, Kat from The Warp Effect (yes not BL but whatevs), Kawi from Be My Favorite and Khai from the Warp Effect) might fall on these spectrums. (THIS WILL INCLUDE SPOILERS)

A wrap up on acepectrum, transient identities, and labels

First Up the Ace-Spectrum!

(How I frame aceness in my head)

Aesthetic attraction = I really want to just stare at this person, they so pretty

Romantic attraction = I want to have this person with me, I want to hold them close and see them daily and talk to them about everything, also I want to cuddle and sleep together (maybe idk this is the attraction I am vaguest on)

Sexual attraction = I want to have sex with this person, I want to personally bang this person, I stare at this person and think about what it would be like to kiss them with tongue and push them against walls and have them underneath/on top of me. (This isn’t necessarily at like 100% all the time I think)

Kapish?

Romantic and Sexual attraction are both spectrums (obvs) and in my head they go from

Allo (100%) <------- to --------> Ace/Aro (0%) with the percentage reflective of how frequently you find people attractive, (I don’t think 100% is everybody all the time though).

So theoretically anyone not at 100% for either romantic or sexual attraction might identify as acespec, though I IMAGINE most people over perhaps, 30% feel attraction often enough that they don’t consider it, so for headcannon purposes I’m considering under 30% as ace or aro.

Sometimes people might consider themselves grey-ace (or grey-aro) if they fall within the more middling but still low percentages (say 15-50%,) So they experience attraction to individuals on occasion, but less frequently than typical. (But, again any label that people identify with is true for them)

Framing Demisexuality as a doorway

Demisexuality is, to me (in brief), not experiencing sexual attraction prior to the development of strong emotional/intellectual/romantic feelings (also can feel like a significant jump rather than completely 0-100, for me it’s almost like a switch on/off, but it can be gradual too)

Demiromantic people don’t experience romantic feelings for people unless there’s a strong emotional bond in place. (Same caveats as above)

The demi-doorway doesn’t automatically open the moment bonds/romantic feelings are developed, it’s simply that these feelings DON’T occur without the bond first. An alloromantic demisexual person MAY develop sexual feelings for someone they like romantically, but they also may not.

Personally, I consider myself demisexual and demiromantic because (based on 1.5 data points (data points = people), which is really not enough evidence) after bonds are formed both my romantic and sexual interest about a specific person jump up to allo. My deminess also feels tied to the way the changing/wavering of these emotional bonds also closes the door really quickly?? (So I can become abruptly not attracted to someone anymore if my romantic feelings/emotions are gone/destabilised, let me tell you it is weird to experience)

The lines around characters and actors and attraction gets all blurry too. Kind of like there’s a window in my door(s) that can be open or shut, but I can always look through it? (IDK how this metaphor is holding up)

For example, here’s some arbitrary categorites:

1. People are nice looking because everybody is nice looking (e.g., most people)

2. Aesthetic attraction (let me stare) e.g., Jean from The Warp Effect or Ayan from The Eclipse

3. Aesthetic attraction but more??  E.g., Joong (Joong is pretty, VERY PRETTY. But it’s still not really sexual attraction…I just want to stare at him…extra hard…and if he WANTED to fuck me…I mean for science…but I still don’t really WANT to??)

4. First. E.g., AM I EVEN ACE/ARO WHAT IS THIS SORCERY??

Clear as mud I’m sure.

Ace people can also dislike sex, be sex repulsed, enjoy watching, and whatever else without it emphasising or erasing their aceness, since it’s about sexual attraction to an individual more than anything else.

In a similar way you can also be sex repulsed or dislike sex or dislike aspects of sex without automatically being ace.

ALSO Demispec people may experience full (e.g. 100%) romantic/sexual feelings once the door is open without the caveats that I listed (about emotional instability) and this in NO WAY erases their aceness (or their deminess). There is also something to be said for the different ways the emotional bonds are formed/feelings are triggered. My two data points (attraction to people) were both triggered by strong intellectual connections.

ALSO acespec (which includes all aro/ace/demi people FTR) people can have gender specific (or non-specific) orientations as well (e.g. homoromantic asexual or aromantic pansexual or even biromantic bi-grey-ace).

Examples from Thailand BL/QL in my headcannon

I’m only talking about allo/ace/demi here, no gender-(non)-specific orientations.

Ae (Love By Chance) alloromantic demisexual (through the door 100%)

Ae is, I think, a pretty classic example of the most common view of demisexuality. He experiences romantic feelings for someone (idk if it’s the first time for this) and then slowly realises he’s sexually attracted to said person and goes a bit crazy because he doesn’t quite know what his feelings mean because he’s never experienced them before and, well, he’s a horndog (I love Ae and this depiction for the record) his demisexuality is absolutely a gateway to 100% sexual interest!

Some signs of his aceness might include his lack of interest in sex as commented on by his roommate and his confusion over the feelings he’s experiencing for the first time because they’re outside of his frame of experience. Also his sexual feelings seem to take a while to develop, after his crush has begun.

(I’m much less certain about romantic orientation here because we don’t know if he’s had crushes before (without wanting sex) and also he’s only 18, so even if he hasn’t doesn’t mean he’s arospec)

Arthrit (SOTUS & SOTUS S) Alloromantic demisexual (but different!!)

Arthrit seems alloromantic, in his previous feelings for his childhood friend and his clearly developing romantic feelings for Kong.

Arthit’s aceness is less clear cut than Ae’s because even after he develops sexual feelings (through the demidoor) he doesn’t experience allo sexual attraction as strongly as someone like Ae. I found a lot of his reactions to the relationship ups and downs in SOTUS S were very relatable (and prompted my first ever long post lol click for way more info on this) because of how Arthrit’s desire for sex (or sexual touch) seem to waver with the relationship stability. This is not about being uncomfortable with Kong exactly, but more about how even after they’re technically on an even keel and Kong’s sharing his bed and apartment, Arthit still seems uncomfortable with some of his sexual advances. While LATER after they’ve properly talked about it, he goes back to leaning into Kongs space and making flirty eyebrows.

So his deminess kind of means his aceness is variable even through the demidoor, like the door is wavering between open and closed. But it also doesn’t ever feel like his romantic feelings for Kong waver, just that the unstable grounding of their relationship boundaries lead to emotional instability which effect his sexual interest.

(Because I will take every excuse to use my Arthrit screenshots)

Kat in The Warp Effect (aromantic allosexual)

Honestly, Kat being Aro seemed basically canon during my viewing of The Warp Effect. She shows essentially no evidence of romantic feelings for anyone the whole series. (Though obvs people can want and have sex without wanting relationships and not be aro)

While Kat later tells Alex that she likes him (and tells Jean too) I don’t really feel like this mucks with the head-canon for a few reasons:

Kat is shown to be pretty monogamous when in sexual relationships with people even as she want’s no strings (she tells Alex he’s the only one she is currently having sex with (I think), she later tells Captain Asshole this and then later tells Tony this).

Thanks to Captain Asshole she begins to feel unsafe with the way she lives her life.

She initially wants to commit to Alex as the person she is most comfortable with, but we are not really shown any evidence of romantic feelings, just a desire for commitment.

She seems to reach a similar sort of balance with Tony in the OG Warp Timeline, but there still (to me) isn’t really evidence of romantic feelings

Aro people can, after all, want a committed and/or monogamous relationship.

Kawi in Be My Favorite (Alloromatic Asexual (not Demi IMO))

The reason I think he’s ace rather than demi is more about the language he uses even after he’s in love with Piseang (please see my thoughts about ace-kawi coding in ep 10 for more details if you're curious). Even after this wasn’t made explicit by the narrative, I stand by my thoughts around his lack of interest in sex in general. (As well as the coding in ep12 of him trying the rollercoaster and not liking it). It didn’t really feel to me like he gained sexual feelings for Piseang (unlike the vibes I personally got from Arthrit even if they wavered), more than he tried sex and enjoyed it enough to participate again in the future because he loved and felt comfortable with Piseang.

If you feel ambivalent about playing tennis, but your partner really likes playing tennis than maybe you make a point of playing tennis regularly even if it’s not something you’d think about doing on your own, because playing tennis with your partner is fun you know?

Of course, if tennis makes you feel icky, or really bored, you many not ever want to play it even if your partner enjoys it.

Khai in Theory of Love (demiromantic allosexual)

So Khai is my most recent addition to this post given I just finished ToL but he was so demiromantic it crushed me into pieces so he gets to be included! ways Khai feels demirom:

His confused realisation of feelings when he talks to his Phi at the beach.

He likes to keep things uncomplicated with the girls he’s seeing because he doesn’t do relationships.

He actually tries to take his relationships seriously but just never really seemed to genuinely want the romance.

Even after he realises he has romantic feelings for Third, when he returns back to him (after the beach reflection) he notices his sexual attraction more easily than his romantic feelings.

His confusion over how much he hurt when Third seemed to be choosing Un over him, and how it was the first time he realised how much Third must have been hurting because he’d never felt like this before.

The entirety of Ep12 with Third telling Khai what he feels isn't love (because Third has seen time and time again that Khai hasn't loved anyone before). Khai's attempts to prove himself even though he really understand what loving someone means, even as he follows his emotions, and tries hard to be “better” for Third because he does love Third, he chooses Third, he changes for Third, he cries for Third.

He also curls up in his room watching romantic movies for multiple days because Third tells him that what he's feeling isn't love and if it isn't then what is?)

Very relatable and also owie ouchie my brokenness feelings.

Lack of data points makes it tricky:

There are probably lots of other characters that COULD fall into a-spectrum, (just as there are reasons why these characters might not) but the thing I find the trickiest to navigate (for my headcanons) is lack of data points. Most characters in BL are in highschool/college, and this, combined with a desire for lack of messiness in story structure, means characters are often experiencing feelings ‘for the first time.’ Long term pining, childhood crushes, and first attraction to the same gender, all come into play and make evidence muddy and lacking a concrete foundation, from which to draw conclusions.

We can’t ask characters about their preferences, previous feelings, levels of emotion etc. so in my opinion conclusions can’t be drawn, only inferences made.  

I don’t have a problem with anyone headcannoning these characters as not acespec.

I don’t have a problem with anyone headcannoning other characters as acespec.

Identities, Transience and Labelling

In discussing this post and my own framework with a couple of people I wanted to add a bit more of my personal experience with the ace label and the ace spectrum. Because the thing about both ace-ness and allo-ness is that they’re not equal all the time. Some people experience sexual attraction first or more frequently and may only experience romantic feelings later or less frequently. Some people feel romantic attraction before sexual, but only sometimes and sometimes people feel both at once and straight away, or both at once but only later on…

The romantic and sexual attraction spectrums are spectrums that everybody exists on and in existing on a spectrum some people have a firm placement and others a shifting one.

People who are ace-identified are typically those who have felt meaningfully different from their peers in the level and/or frequency of experiencing any sexual attraction and/or any romantic attraction and whose attraction is close to zero for one or both of those spectrums. They have thus sought out explanations for their difference and found the ace labels. Demi-ness, on either spectrum, then relates more to the way emotional(/intellectual) bonds, positive or negative, directly impact your ability to feel romantic or sexual attraction.

In the context of TV, for me, it’s picking up a photo of a character you love and being confused when they don’t seem right anymore. Its looking at a cast of beautiful humans and not really feeling anything but awe at their acting. It’s forgetting that characters were shirtless until the gifs show up on your dash the next day. It’s reading the definition of chemistry and not really understanding what it means. It’s not realising that there’s a difference between kisses where the lips move and kisses where they don’t because the way the characters talk and stand and stare means so much more. It’s so many things until you must notice because what you’re seeing and noticing and caring about is just…not the same as the things other people are seeing, noticing and caring about.

In the real world it’s messier, because aceness is sometimes framed as only 0%. Experiencing emotions outside of 0% can make the label feel hard to keep, or wrong or mismatched:

My 16-year-old-self called herself Asexual and was relieved to have found a reason why she felt so weird, even if it didn't quite fit right.

My 18-year-old-self called herself maybe-bi because both boys and girls can be pretty to look at, and this must be what crushes are right?

My 20-year-old-self called herself Asexual again (even though it still didn't fit right) because she’d tried things with one of these apparent crushes and it just felt…weird.

My 22-year-old-self called herself maybe straight afterall because she dreamed about kissing someone for the first time and that person was a boy.

My 24-year-old-self picked up demisexual and clung to it like a lifeline because why else would her attraction just be…gone. Was I broken?

My 25-year-old-self discovered demiromantic was also a label and felt like things finally made sense.

But what’s important to know is that at no point between finding the asexual label at 16 to finding the aromantic label at 25, was I not aro/ace. And that if I had settled on a non-aspec label after any one of my identity-questioning experiences, it wouldn’t have made me a liar at any age or negated the experience of other aspec people in any way.

Because what my 25-year-old-self now understands is that labels aren’t there to put you in a box and squeeze you into shape, nor are labels there to lay across your shoulders and weigh you down with their expectations.

The labels are a lifeline, a hand reaching out, a voice whispering in the darkness…

You are not, and have never been alone.

So, for me at least, to label characters as this or that, is not to box them in, instead it is pointing and gasping, look, look, that one is like me…or maybe, look, look, that one is like you.

When a character acts the way I would, thinks the way I would, talks the way I would I am again reminded that,

I are not, and have never been alone.

So please, label away, I don’t mind if we pick different labels. I just like that I can share my labels with you. 

[just-nebularomantic-things]

So is nebularomantic unable to distinguish or can having a harder time or having a lot of confusion around it fit? Because I think I'm possibly aromantic and nebularomantic because I cannot distinguish what is romantic and what is platonic, but that results in me thinking I don't experience it in the first place because even though I can't distinguish it intuitively, from what people have told me I think that what I feel doesn't fit into romantic attraction. Although to be honest I'm still not completely sure I just don't think I've experienced a crush and that it was actually something like queerplatonic or alterous (or something that just can't be labeled) or hyperfixating on someone due to autism (and possibly adhd but I'm not diagnosed with that.)

(Okay I know I'm rambling, mainly asking because these labels can be so confusing for me to navigate and I'm just trying to clarify something, such as above question and also have you met or spoke anyone who identifies as being both aro and nebularomantic or any resources around that, because I read here that you didn't think it made sense and I am confused because that contradicts with my experience)

Nebularomantic can mean that you are unable to, or have difficulty differentiating between romantic and platonic attraction/love/affection due to any neurodivergency - and it sounds to me that you are experiencing that difficulty!

Sometimes it takes a long time of introspection to find out how you really feel. If at any point you figure out that, maybe you do make a meaningful 'split' between platonic affection and romantic attraction, (as in, you find there is some clear way to tell them apart), then, well, you can keep identifying as nebularomantic, or you could look for a label that make reflect your experiences more. But there's also the chance that, you never do find that distinction, and there's absolutely no shame in that.

Of course, I am not the total dictator over what labels you can call yourself! If you feel both aro and nebularomantic suit you, then go for it! I think a lot of people assume aromanticism is all about, just not experiencing romantic attraction - but I feel like it should be about, of course not experiencing and not needing that, but experiencing what *other people* (who are not aromantic) could consider romantic attraction in atypical or non-traditional ways, like queerplatonic relationships.

I created this blog, truthfully, to find other people who were like me, because I couldn't find much. I do not mind your rambling. It is always good to here about other people's experiences. If something I said contradicts *your* experience, pay it no mind. Your experience and how *you* feel is what's most important.

I hope my answer made enough sense! Thank you!

[the-pea-and-the-sun]

how did it take me so long to start calling myself aromantic/arospec. like now that ive actually started using the term for myself its so crazy to me that i wasnt using this term since the first time i heard about it. i literally remember like almost a year ago being like "i wish i could just call myself aromantic itd just be a way easier way to explain to people the sort of relationships i want since im interested in sex and really close friendships but not really interested in traditional romantic relationships right now" like my brother you CAN?? jesus fuck. like this thought came aftera series of relationships where i would tell my friends that i had a crush on someone, then the relationship progressed in someway, then i got the sense that the person i was interested in had romantic feelings for me and id get this weird horrible feeling and would run away. and i was literally like "what is this whats going on". i was like woah this must be like.... commitment issues or something. like i was going around telling people that. i was getting over commitment issues that were surely temporary. but they werent asking me to commit to anything they just had feelings for me that i couldnt reciprocate bcz i was just attracted to them and wanted to me friends with them and i thought thats what romantic attraction was. i literally remember telling someone abt someone i liked an they were like "why dont u ask them out?" an my answer was just that i was trying to find reasons not to and i couldnt. cuz i was attracted to them and liked spending time with them and liked being their friend but i was so so happy not being in a romantic relationship anymore and i couldnt shake the feeling that if i got into another one even with the perfect person it was literally gonna ruin my life and i would have to pretend to have feelings that i didnt have.

idk im frustrated that i hadnt considered it sooner but its also kinda exciting to discover something abt urself an ur sexuality. like this label brings me the same joy that other labels that ive discovered fit me do like i feel like how i felt when i came to terms w being trans an being bisexual. i feel like im 13 again finding trans and bisexual youtubers and being like "??? there are others?" like ppl dont talk abut it as much w being aro and ace bcz those are defined by the absence of a feeling rather than the presence of one but it really can be just as exciting to find out that you're aro or ace as it can be to discover that you're a lesbian or gay or transgender or something.

like not to be cheesy but discovering that i could just. have friends and also have sex made everything kinda click in my head for me. like literally i felt like a more complete person. experiencing that and realizing like. oh. this is amazing this is literally all i want like nothing is missing. i literally just dont have to do romance stuff like no ones making me do that why did i think i have to do that. like oh my god this is such a good feeling i really can do whatever i want forever.

this post doesnt rly have a point exactly i just kinda have a lot of feelings to get out. i love you aromantic ppl i love being aromantic it fucking rules actually. every aromantic person whos posted abt their experience an helped me get comfortable w the label i owe u a hundred billion dollars jesus christ i love you guys

[our-arospec-experience]

Hello, I have been questioning whether I’m on the aro spectrum for months now but only recently have I started exploring it.

It is not the first queer identity I have explored: I’m already identify as a sapphic on the ace spectrum but it is quite different trying to understand and make sense of compared to my previous identity crises.

I’ve always known that I was on the ace spectrum due to my lack of sexual attraction for people but when it came to romantic attraction…I was very interested in it in my teens so I wouldn’t have questioned it back then.

My history with romance/romantic attraction is very small. When I was younger and in my early teens, I hadn’t realised that I wasn’t straight yet and I never really got the boycrazy phase that a lot of girls my age went through back then.

When I realised that I was sapphic, I felt bliss and fulfilled in my identity, and it all made sense, even when I look back now, the signs were all pretty obvious and to this day I still feel very comfortable and confident in my sapphic identity.

But…recently I’ve realised I don’t experience romantic attraction conventionally, and it’s crazy because I spent a huge part of my teens being a hopeless romantic. I think that is why I am convinced that I’m deluding myself by being arospec.

However, all the crushes I had on people were…I’m going to be honest they were never that deep and whilst having a crush on them I knew it wasn’t that deep.

I enjoyed spending time with them and I felt butterflies sure. But I did not have any interest in dating them. It was more like “you are a medium for me to project all my romantic fantasies onto not someone I want to date”. It wasn’t intense at all and it was more like “out of sight, out of mind” with them. I’ve had a crush tell me that they asked someone else out once and I genuinely was happy for them and the feelings that I had for them (or maybe had for them) faded away.

I also experience this thing whenever I meet someone new I question internally whether I like them platonically or romantically and trust me this happens to most people I meet. In most cases, it eventually dies down as I get to know them and my feelings are platonic.

There’s also the feeling of do I like them or do I want to be them? And honestly the answer mostly leans towards the second option. I can confuse admiration for romantic attraction quite a lot especially when the person is in the same age range as me but honestly I think society also conditions you into doing that quite a lot. At the end of the day, I know I don’t like them because I seriously do not see us in a relationship despite whatever feelings or fantasies appear in my head.

The only time I experienced intense romantic feelings was when I had a deep emotional connection with someone. And by deep, I mean deep, I have never been as emotionally vulnerable with a person as I was with them and I fell in love with them easily. I checked all the romantic tickboxes when it came to my feelings for them: I couldn’t stop thinking about them, missed them when I wasn’t talking to them, couldn’t stop thinking about a future with them, I got jealous at the thought of them with someone and I genuinely wanted to be with them too. It was a crazy several years for me.

Our relationship and what became of it…let’s say we were naive and messed it up. But looking back on it in terms of me contemplating whether I’m arospec…I do realise that I did truly love her. In shades that were both platonic and romantic and honestly both forms of attraction made up my love for her. (If you’d ask me to pick though, I do miss our friendship a lot. It was so entwined with my romantic feelings that were her but honestly it’s kinda where it all started and being able to talk like friends and lovers was everything I wanted).

Anyways, I’m still not sure if I’m deluding myself into being arospec but I’ve heard that it is a spectrum and everyone’s different.

I am most likely an arospec who’s demi and values emotional connection to experience love and romantic desire (wanting to date someone), I love romance (in fiction and in real life) but I don’t see it as a necessity for myself, and I do experience fleeting attractions to people but I like I said…without emotional connection there is no guarantee for me to be able to tell whether I genuinely like them or not.

(Sorry for my long as hell message but congratulations this is the first place I am putting all my emotions/experiences on my matter into!)

The aromantic spectrum is indeed a large and diverse umbrella, and what you are describing sounds pretty certainly under it. That being said! Only use labels if you personally feel like they fit you :)

(you’re welcome anytime to talk about your emotions and experiences!)

[aspecpplarebeautiful]

im having a crisis and i was just. hoping for some insight!! if this isn't the place to ask feel free to ignore and delete!! thanks

i think i might me aro but i'm not sure. i'm 17 and i haven't felt any romantic atttraction (ever? i can remember ONE time in elementary school but literally.. i barely remember) but oh lord. i want to. i've dated people but not because i was attracted to them and i asked first, but because they asked me and i thought it might work out. i'm not sure if anyone can be... involuntarily aromantic? so i thought i would ask. many thanks.

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time, Anon. If you haven't experienced romantic attraction, or possibly did once, but a long time ago, it is possibly you may be aro. Sometimes people do start experiencing romantic attraction in their late teens or very early 20's, but the older you get the more likely it is you're on the aro spectrum.

If by involuntarily aromantic, you mean people who really don't want to be aro, but who's experiences can be described as being on the aromantic spectrum, than yes, that does happen. Some people do have a hard time accepting themselves, especially since we live in a society that pushes the message that romance and romantic love are incredibly important and fulfilling (sometimes the most important and fulfilling) experience someone can have.

That said self acceptance is possible, the first step is rejecting that messaging. It helps that it's not true, while romance and romantic love are an experience that some people find important and fulfilling, it's far from the only one, and it's not one that's been important to everyone. Similar to things like religion, having children, having a passion (for example creating art, helping animals, etc), etc. There are things in life that give people feelings of meaning and fulfillment, but what those things aren't always the same for everyone. Even alloromantic people (that is people who are not aromantic), often find it helpful not to look at romance as the be all and end all since that's just not how it is for everyone, and also it creates a lot of pressure that can lead to unhealthy relationship balances. Romance is a thing some people enjoy and get a lot out of, but it's not the only thing.

The other part is learning to see aromanticism not as something that's about limiting yourself, but instead about giving yourself the freedom to do what's right for you. Aromantic describes how you feel internally, but it doesn't mean you can't do what you want if it's what you actually want and enjoy. For example, if you want to date people romantically, you can still do that. You mentioned you've already tried dating a few times, if you've enjoyed that experience or found those relationships fulfilling, you can keep dating.

On the other side of things, if you didn't enjoy dating, aromantic as a label is there to tell you it's OK to not enjoy dating. There are other types of life partners (Queerplatonic Relationships for example) if having a life partner is important to you. Or maybe you want to focus on other kinds of relationships (it's a myth that only romantic relationships are deep or meaningful, or that nobody values platonic relationships). Or maybe there's something else entirely that's important to you that you'd rather focus your energy on. Sometimes I look at being romance avese (so not just aromantic, but averse to romance on top of it) like not liking chocolate. Some people treat chocolate like it's the best food in the world, better than sex, etc. Some people just don't like the taste, and no matter how much they try and foce themselves to eat it, they'll probably never have that same experience as the people who love it. But there probably is other food they enjoy or other things that give them joy. It's OK to just not like chocolate or to find it just OK.

So even if you're just questioning, and even if you do start experiencing romantic attraction eventually, I would recommend trying to learn these lessons. And trying to see aromanticism as more of a neutral outcome rather than something to be afraid of. Remember too that no matter what you can do what you want, and if you do enjoy romantic relationships, and want to keep doing romantic things you can. If you don't enjoy romance, you will find things and relationships that do matter to you.

Seeking out media with aromantic characters (you can google book and podcast recs for a decent selection), or seeking out aromantic blogs, spaces, etc. can also help you see aromanticism in a more neutral and less scary light as well.

And of course if you have more questions, or want to talk more, this ask box is always open.

All the best, and good luck!

[rerinko]

May have slight grammatical errors. I'm going over it soon!

On Comphet, Compallo and Biphobia

Since writing my last essay I've had the pleasure of being exposed to some great questions that got me thinking. If the root of comphet is about not liking men and being in a patriarchal heteronormative society wouldn't Asexual or Ace/Aro women also experience comphet. When I first heard this, I thought it was very interesting and brought up a very good point. As I thought about it more, the one thing that came to mind about why their experience wouldn't exactly line up with comphet was comphet along with being about the lack of attraction to men and living in heteronormative patriarchal society is about lesbiphobia and the demonization of lesbians and lesbian relationships. Luckily I was able to hear the perspectives of a few ace lesbians but also a few non lesbian ace/aro people. They brought up a term that I hadn't previously heard of before “compallo”. Compallo is the compulsion to feel romantic or sexual feelings. The difference between comphet and compallo is that compallo is rooted in the compulsion to have romantic feelings while comphet is the compulsion to be heterosexual. Because we live in a heteronormative society, people who experience compallo will most likely “choose” to be in a heterosexual relationship or fake heterosexual romantic feelings. On the other hand I as a lesbian would experience comphet but not compallo. Although I am forcing myself to have romantic feelings when I don't it's rooted in being a lesbian not being asexual. It may seem similar but it's not the correct term to label my experience or other allosexual lesbians experiences.

I think the struggles of asexuals often get looked over. As I've been exposed to more asexual people and their experience I learned about things I would have never realized on my own. Asexuals are taught they're broken for not experiencing romantic or sexual attraction. We're taught romantic and sexual feelings are natural which is true the majority of people do have sexual attraction and that's completely okay. What's true at the same time is that there are people who don't. They're not broken, they don't need to be fixed and they're not making it up for attention.

I see a lot of people debating on the topic if asexuality should be a part of the LGBTQ. In my opinion if any group feels safe, feels seen and can relate to the queer experience they should be considered a part of the community. Who alone can really decide what's queer or not. Asexuals are considered broken and strange by society and what could be more queer than that. I think rather than trying to gatekeep who can call themselves queer we should focus on supporting queer people and validating our different experiences.

I also have seen people talking about why do we even need these terms and distinctions in the first place? My personal belief is we need certain terms to describe unique experiences because they summarize a complex topic within a word or two. Instead of having to explain my feelings of comphet I can simply say I experience comphet and people will understand what that means. Terms like comphet or compallo aren't meant to separate and categorize queer people but instead to highlight unique experiences of certain groups. Focusing on one group's issues doesn't make other issues less important. Saying comphet is a lesbian unique experience doesn't downplay the experience bisexual women have in a heteronormative society. As I've said before bisexual women and lesbians share the pain and pleasure of loving women but bisexual women don't understand the pain of not liking men. Even if you lean towards women you are still bisexual and you still can experience sexual attraction towards men. Lesbians never will have that option. For me coming to terms I didn't like men was harder than coming to terms with the fact I liked women's Bisexual women also go through their own unique experience lesbians don't go through. As someone who has never dated men I have never gone through all of the difficulties of dating men as a queer woman. I also can't relate to the biphobia bi women may experience from people within their own community.

I want to be 100% clear that bisexual women aren't any less queer than lesbians and they are a very important part of the queer community. I also don't want to diminish the biphobia they experience. No matter if a bisexual woman is in a straight or a lesbian relationship they're still bisexual. I know the statistics that bi women are disproportionately victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. Bi women have their own experience and lesbians have their own experience and both can relate to each other while realizing they live two different experiences.

If anyone is ace/aro I would love to hear more about your experiences. A lot of this information is new to me. If you feel like I misrepresented something don't be shy to reach out!

[the--highlanders]

can I just say thank you for writing ace twojamie fic!! I'm aroace and I genuinely thought this ship would be too obscure for that to exist but I'm so thankful I was wrong and it was amazing fic btw -you're a great writer!!

oh man thank you!! I know I say this every time someone says something remotely nice about unsorted but I really am always taken aback by how well it was received and how many people seem to like it <3

but I totally get what you mean about aro/ace fic being hard to find in fandom. like, I don't think I've ever had a major ship where I haven't read them as ace in some way, and yet even in far bigger fandoms I've struggled to find fic where the characters are ace. (to the point that I have opened fics in a haze of excitement only to realise I missed the red flags in the tags and it's actually just an aphobic joke :///) & I imagine the romance-heavy focus of fandom makes looking for aro fic even worse.

two and jamie have just always seemed to me like a ship that is. not very allo in any respect, tho. I definitely remember seeing a post interpreting them as queerplatonic soon after I first watched two's era (would link it, but this was like 2015 and I have no idea where I saw it or if it's even still kicking around). at the time I was kinda on the fence about shipping them and I was like, yeah, that makes total sense to me actually. even tho I obviously eventually shifted into reading them as romantic personally, I would still happily vibe with interpreting them as queerplatonic, bc the most important thing with them as characters is that they're together in a partnership, whatever form that takes. & over the last couple of years I've also really started to toy with two not exactly experiencing romantic attraction like humans do (which I'll admit is kinda influenced by my own inability to distinguish/define romantic attraction), so maybe re-injecting some arospec vibes? idk. & I've been hcing them as ace for so long that I don't even really have a reason or justification for it, that's just. how they are, in my head.

despite the size of the fandom and the ship tho I do know there's a handful of people who DO read them as ace. which probably says something about classic who fandom demographics gjkd. but also is such a refreshing vibe for me compared to other fandoms I've been in or read for. peace & love on planet earth etc etc

[smolbeanie1221]

Being aroace spec can be so confusing

My first relationship was with a girl, and I kinda just went along with what she wanted to do bc I figured, well she’s enjoying it so I must be enjoying this too… I didn’t mind anything we did, I just didn’t care or think about it.

Second relationship was with a guy, and at this point my mom had made me feel incredibly guilty for having been with a girl before, joys of being afab in a religious family and the first person you date is a girl. And he was… definitely pushy. Again tho, I just went along with it bc I figured, well he wants to do this and I just have to be bi so there’s a chance I’ll be a normal girl and end up with a guy someday so I have to be enjoying this too… Yeah I definitely was feeling a lot of pressure there.

At this point, I had not felt actual sexual attraction towards anyone, and I don’t think I was ever romantically in love with either of those people.

Third relationship was with a guy who was also one of my best friends. We were kinda dating for a summer and it was a better relationship than the previous, but in the end we went back to just being friends and it was better that way.

At this point, I’m very confused, but I discover this wonderful thing called ASEXUALITY. And everything suddenly made sense. Except for one small thing.

Fourth relationship that never actually became a relationship. I was in some type of love with a different best friend, I would say demi/sapio-romantic (romantically attracted because of both an emotional and mind connection basically). But he was definitely aromantic, but allosexual. I was romantically attracted to him, but asexual… right??? For years I was confused because I wanted an actual official relationship and I would’ve been more than okay with sleeping with him. But… that can’t be sexual attraction?? I’m ace?? Right?? Ahhhhhh. Yeah so I was very confused around him. Turns out, I’m actually demi-ace, but I didn’t realize that until years later after I lost contact with him, and I’ve been too scared to reach out to him lol. Anyways I have a gf now anyways. And that’s been the only time that the demi part of my ace-ness has come out, pun intended lol.

Actual fourth relationship. Definitely romantic and completely non-sexual. Really good relationship for over a year, and that partner helped me become more comfortable with my gender identity and we both were ace and it was really good for a while. It just wasn’t a relationship that was built to grow, so eventually we drifted apart.

Fifth relationship. A non-romantic and non-sexual relationship. Lasted less than a year, but made me realize that I was also aro spec bc being in a relationship that did not have romantic or sexual expectations felt so comfortable and right.

Sixth relationship. The one that broke my heart. My other best friend in that time frame, we were incredibly close and bonded over everything, from our mental health struggles to books to sheetz runs to everything. Eventually we officially were boyfriends in a qpr. They were my number one person for so long, my life partner. There was never anything romantic or sexual, but we loved each other deeply. Until life happened and they changed and I had to break up with them and got my heart broken.

All of these took place from late middle school to early college by the way. I went from, oh I’m a girl and I like girls! To, shit I can’t like girls so I have to like boys too bc I have to be bisexual at least. To, ohhhh so I can actually not want to sleep with people and that’s normal too?? So I’m nonbinary and asexual? That makes sense. To, why why if I’m ace would I be more than okay sleeping with him??? To, huh i think I’m aro spec too. To, okay I’m definitely aro spec, probably demi-aro technically and… probably demi-ace too? Yeah that’s probably right.

At the same time, I didn’t feel as tho romantic was necessarily the right word for me. I mean I’ve experienced romantic attraction I think, but it usually felt kinda forced by either my partner’s expectations or by society’s expectations. I think that’s why my non-romantic non-sexual relationships felt so comfortable to me, bc there wasn’t any of that expectation. I have no freaking idea what romantic attraction really feels like to me. I’ve experienced it I think (??), but for several reasons including outside expectations and general-emotional-processing-issues at those times, I have a hard time knowing any emotions I was feeling at that time in my life. The “butterflies” and “spacey eyed” and “gooey lovey” feelings I felt could’ve been romantic, sure. But they could’ve also been someone who was heavily emotionally repressed all their life just being happy to have someone that they loved who loved them back and getting excited over how cute they were and enjoying their rambles and just generally being happy with someone and also liking some physical contact like hugs and cuddles bc physical touch is their love language with everyone and they like hugs with everyone they care about, and it wasn’t necessarily romantic…..

I get a similar feeling to “butterflies” when I’m nervous about something or excited to see someone in my family I haven’t seen for a while bc I love them and am excited and happy. Not necessarily a “romantic indicator”. I get “spacey eyed” all the time, and usually it’s bc I’m obsessing over my latest fanfic idea. Again, not a “romantic indicator”. I get “gooey lovey” feelings when I see an adorable animal, when someone in my family or close friend group does something really sweet for me or I’m really happy to see them or I get a hug from anyone I love. Once again, not a “romantic indicator”.

Because of all this, I have settled on alterous as my general term for the type of attraction I have with people I have or wanted to date. Alterous to me means this: “I want to be with you and talk with you and do everything with you, I just don’t care how it looks for us or how we categorize ourselves.” I would also attach romance-inclined or sex-inclined as a prefix type thing when applicable. Fourth relationship that never actually happened? Sex and romance-inclined alterous. Fourth actual relationship? Romance-inclined alterous. This doesn’t actually mean that I will feel romantic or sexual attraction or interest or desire with someone, but I may be inclined to want aspects of that type of relationship and I might have those actual feelings from time to time.

The partner that I have now, seventh relationship for those counting lol. This relationship feels stronger and better than any that I’ve had in the past. There’s no pressure or expectation about sex, and she knows that I’m on the aro spectrum, so there’s no romantic pressure either. At the same time, I love the romantic type aspects we have, but I can’t with any certainty say that my feelings are romantic, or at least not romantic all the time. But I feel about her differently than I have about anyone else. There’s several possible reasons, but one main thing I think is that I’m now in a healthier place emotionally so I can better feel and process all my emotions, including my feelings towards her.

Anyways, at this point I would say I’m aroace spec. Demi-altrose (alterous, romantic, sexual).

[asmoshoebox]

i keep turning aromantic misroch over in my mind. i want it to work but i don't feel it's really supported by the text. like, sure, you can say "misroch would be fine if they were asmo's primary sexual partner and had less insecurity, they don't actually want romance or monogamy" but that really requires you to reinterpret SO much of their behavior as just internalized amatonormativity that would dissolve if they were simply more comfortable, secure, whatever. and that feels disingenuous, not least because i don't think demons have amatonormativity lmao. part of bvm's demonic culture is that it's loudly supportive of everything sinful, and disgusted by things considered morally good. which leads me to read misroch's desire for romance and exclusivity as traits that would be punished in demons. traits that might get you ostracized or discriminated against, perhaps, because they're not sinful.

idk. like i said. i really want aromantic misroch to work. mostly because i'm aro and despise romance. but there's definitely an interesting story to tell with allo misroch and aromantic asmoraius (a reading that would be almost explicitly canon if not for his exchange with trent in the finale, and imo that can be explained in a variety of ways without invalidating the aro interpretation)

ooooooooooo OR an aromantic TRENT

now that would be interesting. trent is new, he doesn't necessarily know how to categorize his feelings, and he has absolutely been fed the heavenly amatonormativity--so yes, it makes total sense that he might default to interpreting his feelings as romantic, especially if this is his first time on earth and his first time experiencing any emotions outside of the ultimate love of heaven.

this makes misroch's jealousy hilariously one-sided, and makes me think that asmo's line about love is entirely due to trent's influence, and gives us an opportunity to write trent being like. wait. what the fuck even is love anyway because all i really want to do is chill with you getting groceries and stuff. i dont even necessarily want sex out of it i just like being your friend.

and then asmoraius responding to that with. well. first, the quiet devastation he gets when someone points out he has value outside of his sexuality. and then with an unexpected relief because he didn't know what to do with the prospect of real romance at all--playing romance with humans is one thing, but with a fellow immortal, well, then it would stop being a game and he'd have to admit that he doesn't like it when it's real.

WHICH BTW is part of why misroch is so fucking upset by asmo's fling with trent, because misroch HATES to see it treated like a game. like

you want this so deeply, and you had it, briefly, until it was revealed to be an act that the other person was doing for fun and to make you happy. so you're devastated because you thought it was real but in fact it had turned into something that hurt him, so you break up but manage to be friends still... and then, years later, you have to watch him do it again with someone else? the same act, the same game, so FUN and joyful and lighthearted for him, but ONLY because it's not real!

because the moment it becomes real (the thing you want so much it makes you sick to think about) it becomes a specialized torment nexus for him. which can only mean that there is something wrong with you, in particular, that there is something about who you are inherently that causes him to suffer. is that fucked up or what? hi i'm rod serling,

[cardentist]

Context: [Link 1, Link 2]

this is something that’s been lost as common knowledge both since the drop off of anti-ace discourse and directly Because of it ever having been a thing in the first place, but in light of recent published bigotry pointed at aspecs (aces And aros) gaining attention I think this is something that bares emphasizing:

this reaction isn’t new, it’s something we’ve seen from conservatives for decades now.

a commonly accepted talking point is that conservative christians Must love aspec people, because they represent the theoretical ideal of abstinence. it’s something that I see even from spaces that Aren’t using it as a weapon against aspecs, and in a vacuum it makes sense as an Assumption.

but the thing it misses is that conservative christians do not think asexual and aromantic people Are Real. when they idolize abstinence it’s as a great sacrifice that one makes to defeat the Universal Demon Of Lust. and, more importantly, It’s Something That’s Supposed To End. you’re Supposed to get into a nice heterosexual christian marriage and have lots of little babies that you take to your nice heterosexual christian church, repeated ad infinitum.

and moreover, both christians and popular society In General see our ability for romantic love as The Thing That Makes Humans Human.

so you introduce the concept of people who Don’t experience either of those things and you get two reactions.

1: horror. the “this is a mental/physical illness that desperately needs to be fixed” approach. the idea is monstrous or pitiable but always revolting. they Believe that you live this way, but they don’t believe that it’s something that a “normal” human being could experience or that it’s something that someone could be Happy experiencing.

2: Suspicion. they don’t believe that asexuality or aromanticism Is Real, therefore it Must be a coverup for something even more revolting than is being lead on. it’s not unlike the idea that any feminine or non-threatening trait in a guy (Any guy) is Really just him trying to lure women into a false sense of security by Being seemingly non-threatening, and is therefore even More suspicious as a potential threat.

we’ve Always seen “well if he doesn’t want to fuck humans then I’ll Bet He Wants To Fuck Something Else” and pedophilia accusations/implications. they don’t see aspecs as Pure and Holy, they see them as a threat either to their understanding of what humans can be or as a wolf in sheep’s clothing trying to get away with something.

this is hardly even the first time that aspecs have been presented this way in published news articles or tv. the difference is that public awareness of asexuality and aromanticism has shifted, and with it the bigotry that was always there is being amplified.

that said, I think it’s important to emphasize that this isn’t new, considering the history of erasure ace and aro people have experienced when trying to talk about said bigotry.

I don’t necessarily think this post needs “evidence” (especially with the fox news article already linked above), but for the sake of illustration lets turn back the clock to 2015 for one of the examples I have saved [Link]

[astorichan]

soooo like bug romance right?

I have literally never thought of bug game in romantic terms, especially not between the higher beings

It’s always been a lot of…familial bonds, and how they’re messed with/exploited

But

you seem to have bug romance on the brain

and I wanna know

I wanna know how that recontextualizes this game

please

I’m so sorry for bothering you so much your rambles are just so cool

bug romance hehehehe

i kind of went in with the same view: came for the sibling dynamics between Hollow & Ghost (mainly) + Hollow & PK family dynamics. Then I happened upon a single line in another fic that ripped my heart out and sent me into a recontextualisation night-long spiral. (misread the tags on it, oop) The line was "And it felt terribly alone without her." Hollow @ Radi.

So yeah, that was the first ship I got into. It resonated with me very hard due to some history, so I was able to really... care about it and the dynamics at play. (my aro ass needs to get very invested to ship characters lol)

BUT enough intro, let me actually ramble:

RadiHollow is the first of my two ships. It's based on several factors, first of them being that those two spent an indefinite (I personally headcanon 300-400 years) amount of time completely isolated from the world. Alone with only each other for company. We know that Radi is horrible at loneliness, her history/the entire thing with Higher Beings requiring worship to live alludes to it a lot: the whole reason the infection broke out was that she'd been forgotten by the moths. Left behind. Left alone. The next factors are my own view of their characters. Radi as I write her is an extremely self-centered person, incapable of ever admitting any fault, incapable of ever being wrong, incapable of ever not being in control. She's manipulative and very emotionally abusive in an... insidious, "you just can't appreciate my love", way. So not "hehe torture fun". Hollow is someone who never viewed themself as a real person. Their feelings, wants, thoughts are not important. They have not experienced kindness for who they were. They also tend to blame themself for anything bad that happens. Couple those two in complete isolation (which, isolation is one of the first steps an abuser will take to gain control over their victim), with Radi showing Hollow genuine kindness despite their failure, despite them being her enemy, despite everything. She has an "I will fix you" mentality; she sees them as a poor, downtrodden person who only needs to be loved enough to fall on her side. To see that she was right all along. They hate each other, of course. They want to watch each other burn. They want to burn together. Radi wants to enter the new dawn together with them. They want to go down in flames together with her. They hate her, but the kindness makes it hard to only hate her. She hates them, but their empathy and responsiveness, their presence and pushback make it hard to only hate them.

Grollow is the second one, and it has direct relation to all the stuff I've said up there. I headcanon Grimm and Radi as siblings (""? as much as beings of pure magic can be siblings. their relationship is definitely familial), which means that Grimm is very intimately familiar with all of Radi's antics: the gaslighting, the manipulation, the blame-everyone-around, the disregard for his feelings, the blindness to what her love does to him. He's someone that understands Hollow, post-Radi. He's someone that knows what they've gone through. He's someone who's had similar experiences and had time to heal from them. He's someone who hates watching them suffer at her hands. And he's someone who sees them for the absolute mess that they are, knows most of what Radi could've done to them mentally and is willing to stay by their side. And somewhere along the way, they fall for each other. Somewhere along the way, Hollow grows comfortable with showing themself, with being themself. They stop clinging to their history with Radi, they grow past their (frankly, awful) learned responses. They realise just how much he's done for them, and they want to be the best version of themself, to be his support - if he will let them. He draws out the best in them. They draw out the best in him. They're mirrors of each other. They're pillars of support for one another. They're both willing to do anything for each other. Even if that anything is growing past spiteful pride and unwillingness to admit to fault. Even if that anything is opening up your heart to a potential knife, dropping a mask of playfulness and detachment, showing the vulnerable skin underneath.

My two ships. Proudly waving them around. There's more stuff to Grollow, namely PVxGrimm pairing (so, pre-Temple). Moon expands on that a bit (I think it's in the already posted chapter, even) and Dreams has it because of shared interests, shared character traits and, again, Grimm's unwillingness to coddle them or evade them for any reason. Means a lot to them.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN SORRY don't you sorry me /lh I'm so glad for the opportunities to talk about my stuff. I love sharing my thoughts, headcanons, anything connected to the creative process honestly. It's a special kind of heartwarming. So no sorry, thank you for asking!

[homocidal-spider]

Okay so I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and honestly been kinda debating things the past couple of years and I've been starting to wonder if I'm somewhere on the aro or possibly even ace spectrum and I need some opinions from people who are and are not arospec and/or acespec to tell me if any of this sounds similar to your own experiences because no matter how much I debate this I can NOT figure out if I truly am or not and I don't want to use the label if I don't feel sure because then it feels like im lying

So uh, if you have time, please read my thoughts and explanations and tell me what you think, fellow queer people. I need thoughts and opinions (I'm 19 transmasc, very possibly have autism, and currently identify as bi if that affects any of your opinions here)

When it comes to romantic attraction, I've dated several people throughout my life. In fact I've rarely ever been single at any point throughout my life since the first grade. And yes I do mean that, even if you don't count elementary school or middle school relationships I was in relationships throughout elementary and middle school back to back almost (admittedly, even to the point of cheating on some of my partners in middle school out of feeling a need for a "backup" if my current relationship fell through). Right now is the longest I have been single throughout my life (5-6 months). I've always been the "boy crazy" friend (although openly bisexual since 6th so girl crazy too).

This is all to say, I've always been in a relationship and I've always felt like I need to be in a relationship. Any time I have been single I have been eager to hop into a relationship asap and give it another try. Whenever I've dealt with abusive relationships I've been quick to get over them as I never feared losing those people in my life and really have only ever struggled with losing the people I actually still enjoyed having in my life at that point in time. I've always felt like I need to be in a relationship or else I am going to die alone, romantic relationships have always felt more safe than platonic as a romantic relationship can potentially lead to marriage and staying together until death.

But they more I think about it, I've been wondering if I've ever really been romantically attracted to someone, what I've experienced has been romance to me because that's what I've known it as but what if what I've been feeling hasn't really been romantic attraction but instead really strong platonic attraction. It's made me start to think maybe if I didn't feel the pressure to be in a relationship, I wouldn't desire one.

Also, throughout my life, I've always felt like I've "picked" my crushes rather than them kinda just appearing out of nowhere. It's always been something I've felt bad about but something I've always been very analytical about. Several times throughout my life I have dated people for reasons (aside from just enjoying their company and caring about them) because I "think a relationship with them would work out well and last for a long time" or "I would like this person to remain in my life for as long as possible" or "the way I met this person would be a good story to tell people in the future" or sometimes just simply "this person has romantic feelings for me and finds me attractive". Which makes me wonder if I really truly do feel actual romantic love.

I've also always kind of felt weird when I saw or listened to people talk about their celebrity crushes as I have never had a crush on a celebrity, I've found a few attractive of course but I've never actually found myself crushing over a celebrity. With fictional crushes, I've also always felt weird as until very recently I never really experienced fictional crushes, and they've never been based on a character's appearance or seductiveness but rather their personality and their likablity. It's also (until very very recently) been very mellow to where it's like "yeah if this character were real and stuff I think I would be happy in a relationship with them" (the exception to this is Vivia Twilight from Rain Code he awoke something feral in my brain I wish I could kiss that man and cuddle him)

When it comes to sexuality it's a bit more of a complicated subject that would require me to delve into some more NSFW (in an informative way) topics that I don't exactly want to share with minors so I will include that part of the post in a google doc so I can explain things so I can get a proper perspective without any minors having to read all that.

Google doc explaining why I may or may not be asexual (MINORS DO NOT CLICK)

Another thing is, and this might be the stupidest reason for questioning whether I'm allo or aro/ace, I have a lot (most of my closest in fact) friends who are somewhere one the asexual and/or aromantic spectrum. Well, people tend to flock together subconsciously when they have those sorts of things in common even before they know it. It's definitely a fact that's contributed to my doubt.

With all of that out of the way, I would like to hear your thoughts and perhaps for you to share this with your aromantic or asexual mutuals so I can get as much of a perspective as possible on if any aro and/or ace people feel the same or if any allo people feel this way too and im overthinking things.