#also where was he during the s5 finale???

[frigidlyauthorial]

so sleepy tired so to keep myself awake I’m mentally picking apart every plot hole one miraculous ladybug.

[tryingonametaphor]

Why Will Byers?

An analysis and theory on why Henry/Vecna targeted Will first in season 1 and his plans for Will in season 5

‼️Contains The First Shadow (TFS) spoilers so please proceed with caution.‼️

This is going to be a little long but I’ve tried to give as much context as I can without actually being able to show snippets from the stage play. This is my interpretation of everything that went down as a member of the audience and not as someone who has read up any theories about TFS before. To understand why Henry took Will first in 1983, we have to start with -

Henry and Joyce

From all the times I’ve watched TFS, the one thing that has stuck with me is the final conversation Henry has with Joyce. It’s just before his last confrontation with Patty Newby and before he joins Brenner for good. Joyce is the last person (who doesn’t know about Henry’s powers) that he canonically talks to.

Throughout the entire play Joyce, Hopper, and Bob are investigating the animals dying at the hands of Henry and come to the conclusion that Victor Creel has been the one doing the killing. They get so close to solving the case. In her last conversation with Henry, Joyce tries to comfort him by saying that Victor will pay for his crimes - which makes Henry laugh because she’s so close yet so far from the truth. He gets a little frustrated and says “You don’t get it. But someday you will.” The next time we see Henry make a reappearance in Joyce’s life is during -

The Vanishing of Will Byers

Will is taken into the Upside Down (UD) by Henry. It’s not even a question anymore. All of the context clues from 1x1 lead us to believe that Will’s kidnapping was not by a demogorgon. Will - a 12 year old - miraculously survives a week in the upside down with no food or water. Will is even around the demogorgon a few times in the Upside Down. (Joyce communicating with Will through the lights and then the demogorgon coming after her immediately).

Barb dies the night she is taken but Will stays alive and also somehow manages to talk to Joyce through the wall. Joyce is led exactly to where Will was held at the end of s1 and he makes it out alive. It’s almost as if Henry knew all along that Joyce was the most capable of never giving up on finding her son. Like Henry took Will Byers because he was Joyce’s son. And like he was giving her just enough to know that Will was alive. Even when Joyce and Hopper find him at the end in a state of near death, he’s not injured by a creature. He was being prepared for the next stage of Vecna’s plan -

The Possession of Will Byers

The origins of Henry’s powers happen as such - As a kid, he is transported into the UD (originally coined Dimension X by the government) for a few hours because he touched something he wasn’t meant to touch. During his time in there, he came in contact with the Mind Flayer (MF). According to TFS this is the point in his life when he started getting “corrupted”. Brenner’s dad - who was one of the first people to enter dimension X - had mutated blood after but no powers. Henry was the first person to come in contact with the MF and it’s highly likely he got his powers because of this (This would also track considering how most of the party has been in the UD now but show no signs of having powers). The MF controls Henry for the rest of TFS and Henry grows more power hungry the more he kills.

In S2, Henry presumably sends the MF after Will - who has now had a year to heal from the events of 1983. Will is the only other person in all of ST to have had direct contact with the MF and survived it. Henry didn’t hesitate to kill Billy in S3, but he always gives everyone just enough to keep Will safe. Will himself tells Owens in S2 that the MF wants to kill everyone except him. Will once again survives the entire ordeal and is given a “break” for the next 2 seasons. Except I don’t believe he’s been just given a break. I think Will is -

Henry’s Sleeper Agent.

Ready to awaken in s5. I undoubtedly think that Will is going to have powers. And I don’t think they’re going to be the same as Henry and El. El and the other lab kids get their powers directly from Henry. Will’s powers will be directly from the MF like Henry. I believe this has been Henry’s plan all along and it’s further affirmed by what he tells Will in the recent VR game. That Will will be the key to Henry being able to infiltrate his friends’ minds. Jamie Campbell-Bower also mentioned during the S4 press that to get in character, he set up a display with all of Henry’s victims and targets’ faces on his wall(?), and Will was in the center.

Henry is going to use his connection with Will sneakily and midway through S5 he’s going to awaken Will’s powers (maybe in ep4 - which is said to be titled ‘Sorcerer’ and has young Will in it). Henry is going to try and manipulate his way into making an ally out of Will, and it’s not going to work because -

Will is the Perfect Character Foil.

Will is everything Henry could have been if he had a better support system. He is the perfect character foil. Unlike Henry, Will has a mother who loves him unconditionally and more importantly, believes him. Unlike Henry, the person who Will loves the most (the Patty to Will’s Henry: Mike) is going to love him back and stay by his side all season. No one is going to force them to be apart the way Henry was told to stay away from Patty. Will is not going to be easily swayed even though Henry has spent years crafting him into the perfect soldier. Sure, Henry has seen him heartbroken and sad, but that comes nowhere near to the amount of love and support Will is going to get from his people next season. And they’re going to quite literally defeat Vecna with the power of love and friendship. After that, Will Byers is getting the happy ending that Henry could have gotten.

[ohnopeh]

i love the idea that ian finally understands he had been making mickey believe he wasn't loved enough for not singing the paper.

he goes to mickey showing a ring and mickey is hopeful but also wary of what is happening, then ian says it

i love ian, but darling, you can be a bit dumb (its okay you are learning)

what could have mickey possibly thought? that ian will marry him cause gallagher keep their promises? that's all to it? is it not because he supposedly loves him and genuinely wants that?

the look on mickey's face as he realises what ian said makes me think that it was the moment mickey fears were ''confirmed''. ian didn't love him enough, of course he wouldn't, why would he? ian bought the promise ring, yes, but he still wouldn't wear it but hang it on his neck where he can hide it, is mickey not it? and then mickey says it

he realises mickey had been thinking ian didn’t love him and that’s it, he tried many times. by coming out, being there during the whole diagnosis, being broken up with but still thinking of him and hoping to be together, thinking he will be with him in mexico and then getting himself back to prison so that he can be with him, support him through all that. but that was it. he didn't have it in him to fight for them anymore, he had the rights to finally put himself first and say ''that's enough''. ‘you don’t love me enough now, and that’s fine, it’s cool.’

but ian fucked up. he now knows that mickey believed he wasn't enough, he wasn't the right one for ian.

it didn't even cross his mind that it could have been a possibility, cause since the diagnosis, ian had been so sure that he wasn't worth of mickey and the pain that comes by being around him, loving him.

so ian thinks : how can you ever be so sure you love me? how can you even possibly be in love with me when i have such disorder that won't make it easy for you? what do you even see in me to think i'm worth all of that?

the only explaination ian can think of for someone like mickey to fight so hard for their relationship to work is that : he's either crazy or he never experienced any other type of relationship before.

cause ian has, ian has dated other people after mickey and none of them loved him. one cheated on him, gaslighting him that it was okay cause it was a chick and not a guy. the other made it a challange for ian to be attracted to him, didn't respect ian when it came to his trauma regarding monica, didn't really care about ian being off his meds, being more concerned that his mania was making him the star of the news and not what trevor really wanted. mickey had never done that, mickey had always been there for ian and he knows that— he knows that mickey is the one he loves and the one that will do anything for him. he broke up with him because he loved mickey too much and wanted him to be free.

being with those people made it impossible for ian to even pretend that mickey wasn't the one he loved and that loved him back.

but mickey? he never had a relationship other than the one with ian, so how could he know that ian is the one if he never dated anyone else? someone ‘normal’, someone that wouldn’t make him worry and watch for his mood swings?

ian is telling mickey that he has a choice to do better— he’s telling him that out there, there’s someone that won’t hurt him, that won’t make mickey think they’re not in love enough to take the big step with him. cause ian knows mickey is everything— but how could mickey know that ian is that for him too?

i love how mickey’s expression changes as ian speaks. it's the moment it hits him that ian loves mickey enough, he loves him too much so that he questions himself just as much, deciding for both of them (once again) what mickey needs and who he shouldn't be with.

and i love that mickey finally understands everything, he understands why ian broke up with him in s5 and tried to move on and pretend mickey wasn’t what he wanted. mickey's first reaction is just to shake his head and say ''jesus christ, ian.''

and ian looks so confused, he might be thinking : what did i say wrong? i know i am right, you know that this is true. i'm a problem, i'm not worth it, can't you see? but that's mickey’s limit, it was ian’s moment to work on his not worthy of your love shit and realise that it’s all bullshit cause mickey is all in for them. he always has been no matter what.

and mickey knows so well that he can't do anything else to prove it to ian. he straight up tells him the answer to lip's ''figure out why you don't wanna marry him.'' 'cause he doesn't believe he's worth it. but mickey has proved him enough, mickey has told him what's ian true fear is and its not mickey's love for him that will fix it. it was ian's job to work through with it (and he did!! of course he did) back when this episode came out, i was so angry and frustrated about it, i guess growing up makes you see things differently uh?

[loosethreadsofyoursoul]

while i will always love and appreciate the bisexual dean winchester agenda, i truly believe that if he was raised differently—or maybe if he grew up today instead—that boy would have been gay. like his love for women in a romantic/sexual context was always such a caricature and was continuously used as a symbol of masculinity that played against the roles assigned to him by his father growing up for the sake of suppressing any queerness he might exhibit. now whether that suppression was purposely written into his character or was a reaction to the character they had created, i’m not sure, but it’s there regardless.

i don’t mean to dismiss the love he felt for cassie or lisa, but particularly with lisa, i’m not sure he was ever in love with her, despite the fact that he did care for both her and ben. i get so frustrated watching the end of s5 because him going to her house and his perfect “apple pie life” being with her in suburbia genuinely came out of nowhere and i’ve never understood a) why it had to happen, and b) why it had to be lisa. but thinking about it in this sense, she was the closest thing he had in his life to everything he was raised to believe he should want by one john winchester, who lost his perfect wife, perfect family, perfect apple pie life and sent all of them down this path in the first place. so of course to dean, his happy ending would be with someone like lisa. but that’s the important part. someone like lisa, not lisa herself. he may have had love for her and he may have been able to picture a life with her, but it wasn’t necessarily because she was everything he wanted; she was a symbol of the things that tore his family apart and so to be with her felt like he was finally able to put some of it back together. and that makes me so sad for him because all of that is a result of the sense of responsibility ingrained in him growing up by john, not something he wanted for himself.

but back to his general attitude towards women, there was an excellent post that said he only acts like the typical womanizer he has a reputation for being around women deemed “stereotypical” by the misogynistic perspective. otherwise, he tends to take on a fairly brotherly role; he doesn’t tend to pursue any women he can “take seriously,” and is more intimidated or impressed by them than anything else. with the exception of cassie (which was pre-series and we never got full context for in the first place), he only ever pursued women with whom he would have a definitive ending—by that i mean women who he knows he’ll never see again or who would have a clearly defined role during the time they’re together that wouldn’t threaten the status quo. and yes these could also be the traits of a commitment-phobe or someone chronically on the move, but for one, sam doesn’t tend to do the same thing (see ruby, amelia, and eileen), and for two, given the things i mentioned already, it makes me consider it more of a result of him not actually being interested in women romantically.

his reaction to women when not purposely used as the butt of a joke or to perpetuate the “womanizer dean winchester” agenda is often so innately fraternal, caring in a way that doesn’t have any expectations behind it. and when there is a romantic context, so much of the relationship can be attributed to the way john raised him and the beliefs he has as a direct result; it’s never simply been built on the foundation of love.

every time he is dismissed as this macho het guy, it also dismisses so much of what makes him a wonderful character, and yes a lot of that is his queerness. so in a world where he didn’t grow up with roles and responsibilities that shaped him into someone he knew his dad hated and forced him to create this character for himself in order to survive? i think he would have been gay and he would have been okay with that.

[rexecutioner]

Spoilers for all of Mystreet and a small bit of Mcd

So ur telling me. That in ms and pdh. In six seasons and like three prequel seasons. Vylad Ro’Meave. Gets 10 episodes that he appears in. TEN. Over 314 fifteen to thirty minutes episodes (including the side series, pdh and fcu, the spin offs, and the mini series, not including the mini games), Vylad get approximately 85 minutes of screentime in total, with around 40 of those minutes being in pdh, and 45 in Mystreet.

My poor guy got the Laurance treatment, with both of them being very important characters in Diaries, but being pretty much tossed to the side in Mystreet. At least Laurance shows up in more than one season of the main series, because Vylad only gets four episodes in Mystreet, (with three of them being solely Ro’meave centered episodes that he takes a smaller role in) and in those four Big Vylad Return Episodes, he doesn’t show up much without his brothers and ends up taking the back seat again as the main plot is taken up by Aphmau and Zane fake dating to please Zianna.

You’ll never guess what he does in Pheonix Drop High. He gets introduced to us, befriends Travis and Aphmau, and is then never seen without one of his brothers again until Mystreet, in which he gets like, 8 minutes of screen time away from them over the course of two episodes until the main arc plot.

Yes, I did infact watch all of the episodes Vylad is in and roughly calculated the amount of time that he was in each episode, even if he wasn’t talking. I would move mountains for this man.

When I watched Mcd for the first time, I had high hopes for him (and by that extension, poor Laurance) in Mystreet during my rewatch, because I hadn’t watched it in years, unless you count dubbing over s4 with my friends. Yay! Vylad finally shows up! Aaand now he’s gone. With no mention of where he went. And we are left to assume he’s traveling the world again. The next time he is ever mentioned is s4, by Garroth, once. And then radio static once more. I’m pretty sure at some point in s5 Zianna brings him up while talking to Zane but I can’t remember.

Vylad had so much goddamn potential in Mystreet. Affair baby? Canonically Pansexual? Tense relationship with his family? Usually keeps off the radar? Acts completely different from his Mcd counterpart? “Child Prodigy”?

They could have done so much more with him and it makes me so sad that he’s basically just a cameo character to please old Mcd fans and make them say “oh my god! Vylad! From Mcd!”. Yes, it did infact please me, but we get so little of him until he’s gone.

They could have removed him from the plot of Mystreet entirely and it wouldn’t change much. The whole Zanemau fake dating story never really goes anywhere, and thats all we see of him other than Pdh, where he is also neglected as a character, though not as much.

It’s not even the fact that they brought him back from Pdh and then did nothing with him. Thats what they did with Ein, and it worked flawlessly. Its the fact that they brought him back just to show us that “hey guys look it’s Vylad that guy from Mcd and like 5 episodes of Pdh!!”

You know what they could have done instead. Removed Kim from the plot and inserted Vylad instead. She showed up just as a plot point to get possessed. It also would have made Emmalyn a bit less weird in her re-introduction, because if Vylad was obsessing over Zane it would have been weird as hell and they wouldn’t have written that.

I would have watched tf out of an Emerald Secret where Vylad was in town visiting his parents and gets dragged by Garroth to help renovate a new property his parents bought, only for him to

A) get possessed and start acting strange, probably suspiciously glaring at Zane and Aphmau,

B) watch as Zane also starts acting weird, and doesn’t remember himself OR Garroth,

C) Witness as everything goes downhill, probably getting locked in the other jail cell with Garroth (LIKE IN THE BLOOPER REEL) and fleeing back to the cabin to try and get help from literally anyone while Garroth tries to save Aaron and the others, and

D) getting invited to Starlight by the Lycans, where we learn more and more about both Vylad AND Emmalyn, as she starts to recover her memories and tells Vylad about a man quite like him in looks from the past.

We could have gotten more of his relationships with the other characters, like him and Lucinda both gladly breaking into the place where Travis is staying, Not Alone Buddies interactions, his interactions with his brothers now that they’ve all been through A Lot, reacting to Aphmau’s engagement, him watching the other guys as they all fail to pull in amusement, commenting on just how much Travis has changed since high school, his reaction to Garroth getting zapped into a werewolf, an awkward interaction with Garte, the GF invasion, getting used to passing out all the time, missing his old travels and regretting ever going to the lodge, Garroth getting mind controlled, Aphmau’s sudden death, and the burden of both contributing to the possession of Travis, and the responsibility of helping to kill his father.

DO YOU KNOW HOW HAPPY THAT WOULD HAVE MADE ME 😭

plz bring Vylad back s7 🙏🙏🙏

[eddiediazismyhusband]

Do you think buddie was meant to go canon in S4, how do you think they would have done it?

I fully believe that buddie was intended to go canon in early s5 after eddie was shot. there was so much surrounding buck’s reaction to eddie being shot, eddie only focusing on making sure buck wasn’t also hurt, buck breaking down in front of chris, the discussion of the will…. they set up those building blocks to showcase that there was something deeper there with buck and eddie and then……. season 5 happened bc KR took over (FOX also had to do with the decision as well but…) but i think Tim was trying to intentionally write them into a corner but was moved to LS before he could ever get there himself.

I think s5 would have started out with eddie having the same realizations about not wanting to be with ana, and that it would lead to him reexamining his feelings for buck when buck would have been the one to comfort him through it. I think this version of s5 taylor would have noticed buck’s dedication to eddie and had a heary to heart with him about how he needs to be true to himself, and we would have gotten buck accepting his feelings (i also hc that in this timeline, buck knew he was bi already he just never felt the need to bring it up) and he and taylor would part ways as friends (taylor wouldn’t fuck everything up in this universe either) and buck would want ti confront his feelings, but before he got the chance to, eddie would leave the 118. buck would view this as eddie leaving him behind and not face the music. they would follow a similar path of canon s5 leading up to the big PTSD breakdown in 5x13 where buck would go to eddie’s when chris called. we would see buck immediately fall into place to take care of eddie (just like in canon) and it would lead to plenty of moments where they are just on the edge of something but never cross the line. they continue to dance around each other; buck saying he wants to give eddie some time to breath post-breakdown, eddie saying he doesn’t want buck to rush into a relationship after taylor (obviously not knowing the bereakup was bc of his feelings for eddie) and then finally in 5x18 while eddie and may are having their simultaneous arcs of what comes next, they would have a heart to heart where may would tell eddie he needs to stop waiting around and go after what makes him happy— this would lead to an emotional confession scene at hen and karen’s vow renewal where eddie would tell buck exactly how he feels, and buck, in lieu of a reply, kisses eddie and that would be how s5 ended, ushering buddie canon in s6 where we see them stumble, the whole wack-ass donor plotline would go away bc eddie would be there to talk some sense into buck, eddie would tell the buckley parents to fuck off, buck would still get struck by lightning and eddie would grapple with the idea of losing someone else (to give that shannon angst another stroke), we still get the poker date where it’s still a fluffy buddie moment, buck would continue recovering but he and eddie would grow distant bc buck would have similar post-lightning strike stress about not knowing what to feel, and eddie sould be repressing his emotions about it— lead to some angst with natalia flirting w buck, buck being flattered at someone not treating him like a living corpse, eddie getting pissed st this woman for thinking buck’s death is “cool” and thinking that buck might leave him for natalia, they have a mini (VERY mini) devorce era 2.0 that would get resolved during the freeway collapse and s6 would end with a bathena parallel of them getting secret married. then s7 would have been completely different bc we would have no racist man, no weird nun storyline, no doppelgänger bullshit, etc. We would get some secretly married buddie, possibly some more discussions of catholic guilt bc eddie doesn’t know if he’s ready to come out to his parents yet, eddie would come out to them and they would react badly, and s7 would end w ramon and helena starting a custody battle w buck and eddie over christopher.

yes i basically just rewrote the entirety of s5-7 but we deserved better than what we got from each of those seasons so 🤷🤷 if the creators won’t fo it themselves, someone has to.

anyway i hope this answered your question anon lmao <3 i kinda just sat down and started typing this out with no real clear direction but honestly… i might consider a series of fix-it fics to rewrite s5-7 in the future… but i make no promises

[ilikekidsshows]

Hello. :)

Can I asked for your opinion? I've talked with some of my friends and they said ladybug miraculous is exclusively a leader miraculous while I think it's more strategy related miraculous, not necessarily a sign of a leader, just like the snake.

This discussion is started when I want to write a story about Adrien take over as a leader of the miraculous team after Marinette got vetoed as a not good leader by the team (the story take place three years after s5 finale and they're all adults, Adrien also take times to heal and not Marinette boyfriend). so while she remain as a guardian and strategist, Adrien will be the one leading the team and my friends said it won't work because of the reason that I stated above.

I've seen some example where the leader and the strategist are two different people that's why I think it will work, that ladybug miraculous isn't an exclusive leader miraculous. What do you think? I'm confused because while I was pretty confident before about my opinion that any holder can be the leader, my friends keep saying the same thing that only ladybug holder can lead because the lucky charm ability and it make me doubt myself now.

Thank you and take care.

---

You are absolutely correct, the fact that you can find examples of the team strategist and team leader being two different people with the team still functioning proves it. Your friend has simply fallen into the trap of thinking that, since one thing is what we mostly see, it's therefore the only way to do things. The team leader and the strategist being interchangeable is what we more commonly see, which is why I, too, used to think Marinette's strategic thinking made her a good leader back during the pretool era.

Furthermore, the Lucky Charm ability is not what makes the Ladybug hero indispensable, since Luka has also shown that he can strategize with the Snake Miraculous, it's the Miraculous Ladybug and purification abilities. The reason Marinette is the most important member of the team is because only she can purify Akumas and fix the damage caused by any fights. Basically, Marinette has three times the amount of abilities any other Miraculous, outside of the Dragon.

Regardless, post-retool Marinette has repeatedly failed at everything else a leader should do outside of strategy. What Miraculous she's holding can't change that. Who cares that you can purify Akumas when you lead your team like a dictatorship and are inconsistent with what the rules that you yourself alone enforce are? That's extremely stressful for the team members. Who cares that you can fix the buildings after the fight when you play favorites on your team and never listen to any dissenting opinions even when they're absolutely correct? This tendency has caused problems that could have been avoided if Marinette just stopped viewing her teammates as drones.

Her go-to tactic in a fight is “keep my distance and think of a plan while others actually fight the Akuma”, which makes it obvious she should be more of a strategist instead of a front-lines leader. But, I’ve even grown disillusioned with Marinette's strategic ability. It's one thing to, in a desperate situation, after deep deliberation, make the sacrifice play, to sacrifice something or someone else so that more can be saved. Even with the Miraculous Ladybug ability, Marinette treats sacrifice plays extremely casually and she's very willing to make them when they're her idea. Way too often, Marinette comes up with a convoluted plan that can still be summed up as “sacrifice Cat Noir and fix him with my Miraculous Ladybug later”. Backwarder is the most obvious example, but whatever she was doing to him in Reverser is pretty up there too, never mind how casually she leaves him as the sole cambatant every single time she's getting backup and whenever she's busy implementing a plan. Way too many of Marinette's plans rely on having Cat Noir do most of the heavy lifting for her to sacrifice his well-being so casually even from a logical perspective.

Frankly, the only reason to argue that Marinette should still remain the leader after all this is if you want her to keep doing a bad job or shield her from criticism. Like, her tendency to treat Cat Noir as expendable cannon fodder would be brought to question by everyone on the team if Cat Noir was the leader instead of one of her drones. Marinette's standard for leadership can only be maintained in a team where only she's allowed to do any of the thinking, with everyone else going “Well, she's Ladybug, and she can do no wrong”. If she loses this cover, she's far more likely to get called out on her willingness to sacrifice anything or anyone but herself.

Meanwhile, Cat Noir brings a lot more to the table as a potential leader. He’s friendly to new team members even when he doesn't pick them (contrast how these two greet Volpina, who they had no reason to be suspicious of the time), he considers how their team members might be feeling (even when they aren't on the team anymore like Chloé) and he's concerned over things like having consistent rules for everyone on the team instead of playing favorites for his favorite team members (he was appalled when the found out Nino and Alya were being held to a lower standard than anyone else even though Nino is his best friend). He’s also far more open to perspectives other than his own and he'd never hold others to standards he doesn't also hold himself to.

[whateverisbeautiful]

♥️ Ranking Richonne

#24: Family Fun Days (S9E03 & S4E15)

Grimes Family 2.0 has my heart eternally. 🥹 They are the best family to ever grace an apocalypse. And what’s so sweet is during their Family Fun Day in s9 and s4, it truly didn’t even feel like an apocalypse - that’s how much love and joy Rick and Michonne were admirably able to place in their and their kids’ lives. And while the fallen world turned Rick and Michonne into walker-slaying warriors, who they really are to their core are parents. (ours and their kids 😋) So the final Family Fun Day and the first unofficial Family Fun Day are a tie on this list for allowing Richonne to show why they're the greatest parents around...

Starting with the s9 Family Fun Day, one of my favorite parts is when Rick, Michonne, and Judith are walking hand in hand in ASZ. It’s so idyllic and so the type of rewarding happy life these three deserve.

I think back to s5 when Rick and Michonne were outside the gates of ASZ with Carl and baby Judith in the backseat of their car. I love that the leap of faith they took together in coming to this place has now turned into a stable home where they can fully enjoy being family.

I feel like words can’t fully even capture how much I love all this. Their smiles. Michonne cheering Rick on by saying, "come on, daddy." Judith skipping. Rick's countdown. And the way they lift her up and cheer Judith on. Somehow, I never noticed it until this rewatch, but after they lift Judith up, Rick and Michonne say “wow” at the exact same time. Always in sync those two. 🥰

And Rick and Michonne getting to just be parents is the best and so meaningful. After the devastating loss of children, the way Rick and Michonne have risen from those depths of despair and given Judith a beautiful cheerful life is so commendable. And, truly, it speaks to the strength of Rick and Michonne's impact on each other's lives that they can be this healed and happy now.

I’m choked up from just this initial moment and it only gets cuter with each of their activities. It’s clear that this is Judith’s favorite way to spend the day, but make no mistake, this is Rick and Michonne’s favorite way to spend the day too. And I love that Family Fun Days are something they seem to do often and look forward to. (also it's sweet that, throughout the series, we got several indicators that little Judith is a mama's girl 😊)

It was such a joy to see this side of Rick and Michonne, especially knowing we’d only have 2 more eps before Rick’s departure. I love that we got to see Rick just have so much fun as the best girl dad. He deserved to have so many more days like this with his baby girl. 🥲

Also, what I would give to have seen a family fun day that included Rick, Michonne, RJ, Judith, and Carl all together. 😭

The good thing is Rick and Michonne are going to do everything in their power to get home to Judith and RJ, and I have hope TWD's best parents will be able to have plenty more days like this to enjoy with their children whenever the four reunite.

(Side note: Since we're talking Grimes family in this post, can I just say I never understand the complaints about our sweet prince RJ being a regular kid doing regular kid stuff - like ??? To me, it's actually the biggest flex that Rick and Michonne's baby is living a normal life. A whole dang apocalypse hit the earth, and your kid is able to just read comics and ride bikes because, even in the most dangerous possible world, you managed to create some normal (as normal as it can be in that world) stability for your children - What a win. And rather than find him "boring" as a kid under age 10 just living life, I find it heartwarming that RJ Grimes got to be so normal. The mostly peaceful and regular way RJ is living is the very thing Michonne and Rick wanted and fought for. It's the very thing RJ's big brother Carl fought for too. How wonderful that they got what they wanted 🥰👌🏽)

And then the montage includes my absolute favorite visual with the three of them on a picnic blanket all relaxed, with a brief glimpse of Rick handing Michonne a pink flower as Judith seems to notice the way her dad loves her mom. Even in just a .5-second clip of Rick wanting to give Michonne that flower we see yet another example of how Rick so naturally shows love to his wife. 🥰

I love that in s9 especially, Rick was like if y’all don’t know nothing else about me, you’re going to know that I’m head over heels in love with Michonne. And he’s just so good at courting her even in their married era, and I adore how he’s always thinking of how to gift her.

Y’all, everything in this moment (& the deleted picnic scene where Rick expresses wanting more years like this with his wife and kids) gives me so much happiness and peace. Again, it’s so idyllic and tranquil and pretty. I wanted them to live in this moment forever.

The picnic shot is just beauty and I will always cherish it. It makes me think about Carl’s vision in s8, of their family playing hooky. I know Carl would be so proud to see the three of them essentially doing exactly that on this beautiful family fun day. Like this whole montage is truly what Carl wanted most for the three of them. 🥹

To this day, when I see Scott running over while the three are reading, I’m like damn it. 😫 Richonne deserved to have a day to be all about their family and nothing else and Rick and Michonne look like they really do agree with me in the way they both communicate with a wordless look lol.

They don’t want this family time to end, but they know the world is ready to start screaming again. I do like how Rick sees Scott coming but keeps reading tho. Like ‘maybe if we keep reading he’ll just jog past us.’ 😂 

Seeing Rick kiss Judith before joining Michonne and Scott is so sweet and so sad because it’s his final interaction with his daughter before he’s taken away for years. 😭

Rick and Michonne again wordlessly communicate upon learning about that murdered savior, and you can tell they’re both disappointed. And I'm disappointed that Family Fun Day was cut short too, but I also was like, I should've known...

But I adore that this scene, which ends up being Rick and Michonne's last time side by side in the present, does not end on disappointment.

Rick is quiet and looking at Michonne, and then he looks away frustrated and stressed, especially because this new development could jeopardize the unity and safety he and Michonne so badly want to build for their people.

It’s so clear how Michonne feels for him, knowing how much they both wanted to have this day to just be. And then the shot focuses on their hands with Rick’s fist clenched to further illustrate his frustration. 

But Michonne always knows how to offer Rick the exact right uplifting encouragement and so I love that she then takes his hand. The choreo of it is so good with her slowly sliding her hand into his. It’s symbolic for Michonne to be the one who could most help Rick release his fist, thus release the frustration, and hold onto what matters most.

And, of course, Rick is receptive and holds her hand. He can always receive the positivity Michonne instills in him. And so I love that Rick tightly holds her hand and allows that to be the note they can end on together. 

Richonne handholds are always a thing of beauty so I love that their final moment like this ends on that emphasized visual. Even when things fall apart, they’re still in it together. They’re still held together by their love.

Y’all, how do even their hands tell a compelling story? I mean they always have. From exchanging bullets in Clear, to passing mints and holding hands in their canon ep, and this significant final present moment between them. It really does highlight the strength, love, and unity of Richonne's relationship. 

It’s also sweet how Rick and Michonne's official romance began with a handhold, and their final moment ends with one too. And while their journey is about to devastatingly take them on separate paths for years, I really feel like this handhold right here actually never breaks.

In many ways, during their years apart, Rick and Michonne still embarked through life as though their true love was still with them, still holding their hand and supporting them because their love is neverending - as noted in both Rick and Michonne's sentiments during the TWD series finale.

(Side note: There’s this interesting contrast I think about - because with losing Lori, part of what made it so painful on Rick is knowing they never got official closure after they grew distant and their marriage fell apart. But then with “losing” Michonne after he was taken, part of what likely makes it so painful for Rick is that their marriage was in such a great spot. Rick and Michonne were so beyond close, happy together, and hopeful for their future just before Rick was taken away. And that’s a unique pain to just be abruptly plucked from the woman you were so longing to spend the rest of your life with. Where the Lori loss featured an element of mourning a clear closed door, the Michonne “loss” is an element of mourning all the doors he hoped he'd open with her. And I’m really curious to see how Rick has been dealing with that type of pain while away in TOWL)

This whole sequence of events in 9.03 is the definition of precious. And the song in the background pairs so nicely with this heavenly time. I love Grimes Family 2.0, and this was like a beautiful love letter to them.

It was a lovely reward for Rick and Michonne after all they've been through in this series. And I just appreciate how much joy was depicted in every moment Rick got with his girls in season 9. (their opening moment in the s9 premiere also gets an honorable mention cuz I absolutely adore it)

So I called this Family Fun Days plural because before Rick and Michonne so adorably had their day as mommy and daddy with Judith, they had another version of a family fun day out in the woods with Carl. And this moment, along with the s9 montage, are my all-time favorite Grimes Family 2.0 scenes.

This one in season 4 is so meaningful because during their s9 family fun day in ASZ they were enjoying merriment in the safety of their community - but here the golden trio of Rick, Michonne, and Carl are traveling while unsure of where they’ll get their next meal or where they’ll lay their head for the night…and yet they smile. 🥹 The levity found in this moment is so important and heartwarming to see. 

I love that Michonne was so effortlessly able to be a best friend to Carl and helped him have fun even in an apocalypse. I adore the opening of the scene as Rick talks about resources running low and turns around to see Michonne and Carl adorably preoccupied with their train track competition.

Rick turning around to see Michonne and Carl reminded me of the s9 premiere when the first thing we see of Rick is him opening the doors to watch Michonne and Judith.

I know Michonne’s bond with Carl and Judith means the absolute world to Rick. And I can only imagine how moved Rick would (and will) be to see her bond with their adorable son RJ too. 😭

(Again, I'll never get over the fact that Michonne really carried Rick's child. How extremely beautiful. 🥹And soon Rick is going to finally know all about the son he made with the love of his life. Won't He Do It! 🥳)

I always appreciate that Rick walks over to Michonne and Carl, letting them have the moment a little longer, and the way Michonne playfully tries to win their competition. Carl sharing the Big Cat because "we always share" is also just so sweet.

And, of course, you know I love the way that man Rick is grinning while watching and appreciating this wholesome family moment. 🥰The way he keeps sneaking glances at Michonne as he smiles - I forever stand by the fact that Rick has fallen in love with Michonne by this point.💯

Even despite their circumstances, the three seemed so happy in this moment cuz they’re together the way it was meant to be. And I love that Michonne and Rick both valued giving Carl a good childhood against all odds.

In Carl’s devastating final episode "Honor" he tells Michonne "Don't carry this - not this part," and I always like to think that this moment on the tracks is one of the parts of their journey Carl hopes Michonne holds onto instead. Cuz it was such a beautiful happy moment that cemented the three as a family.

And, clearly, she and Rick did choose to carry the good parts with Carl and even pass it on to Judith as they and their daughter so presently enjoyed a day of fun and games seasons later, where for a few hours they didn't have to be community leaders or fierce fighters. Instead, Rick and Michonne just got to be what they so cherished being - mom and dad. Grimes family forever. 🤍

[conflictofthemind]

Can we Please Re-Open the Petergate?

Ever since learning about Petergate in its entirety, it has been breaking my brain. There’s obviously something incredibly important happening here, enough so that it has to be hidden until the final season of the season.

For those not in the know, Sam Owens has / had a son named Peter that was first name dropped in Season 4. For some reason, the military wants his old schoolwork as evidence in the investigation of the Chrissy murder in Hawkins.

We also pretty much know that Peter is dead. The way Owens acts around Will in Season 2 as the only scientist who is actually determined to save his life, and the implications he makes that he understands the plight of Joyce both heavily imply he has lost a child. This also adds a layer to the whole ‘taking away your son’s precious school projects’ if that son is dead and those are some of the only memories you have left.

Okay so: Sam Owens lost a child, which explains his character motivations in the show. But it’s not quite interesting just ending it there, is it? And why leave this to be seemingly be a reveal in the fifth season where we already have so much else to take care of? Would Sam Owens’ son dying really be that impactful towards the narrative? Would that warrant the copious amounts of references (at least seven just in season 4) to Peter that exist within the show and are still coming out even in recent ST5 BTS pictures?

Something about Peter Owens has to be crucial information in the fight against Vecna.

Let us also remember that those military agents took Peter Owens’ schoolwork as some kind of evidence in relation to the Henry Creel murders, and it was important enough to highlight to the audience.

Let’s go over some facts:

1) Sam Owens has a house in Ruth, Nevada where he lives with his wife. Population irl of only a few hundred people.

2) Henry Creel lived in Rachel Nevada which uh didn’t exist in the 50s during his childhood where he encountered:

3) The Nevada Experiment. Henry happens upon related equipment and is briefly transported into Dimension X before coming back with powers and an altered personality.

4) In TFS, Henry is mentioned to have put a classmate from Nevada in a wheelchair following the events of his trip to Dimension X.

5) Henry was in the care of different doctors before he met Dr. Brenner and moved to Hawkins.

We curiously get no more explanation on this matter; whatever happened in Nevada is probably some of the most crucial information and is thus saved for Season 5. We’ve already gotten most answers that are relevant to Henry’s backstory in Hawkins… but not for Nevada.

Some of the major questions for S5 include:

1) What is Dimension X?

2) What is the actual origin of the Mindflayer and is it an independent sentient being?

3) How did Henry develop powers while in Dimension X?

4) What was the Nevada Experiment and the original Project Rainbow?

Since the military took Peter Owens’ schoolwork as evidence… it means Peter is at least connected in some way to this mystery, if not directly to Henry and probably implies the two knew each-other and were even classmates who worked on projects together.

Here’s the basis of what I propose (to be expanded upon later of course):

Henry and Peter were classmates in their youth fairly likely at this point. Henry and Peter were working together on a project that had them investigating the Nevada cave system. Or perhaps something relating to Area 51 / secret US government stuff. The project has to be relevant evidence since the military took it. This is what led to Henry stumbling upon the dimensional equipment in the cave that transported him to Dimension X.

My question is - what if Peter was also involved in Henry’s disappearance? Maybe he disappeared with him, and this was covered up by the government. Or he was simply exposed to the event but didn’t get transported with Henry, just became severely ill because of this Dimension X virus, and died as a result.

Or maybe Peter was meant to disappear as part of Brenner’s Project Nevada experiment. They didn’t plan for Henry to be there as well, and sure didn’t plan for him to be taken. The whole “rogue staff member stealing the equipment and hiding it inside a cave where Henry just happens upon it I guess” has been weird for a while. Maybe Peter was actually older and involved with P. Nevada, and he was the rogue staff member who hid the equipment? But then how did Henry conveniently get there and why was the schoolwork taken.

I don’t want to make this post too long; but something about this gives me major Will and El parallels in a way I can’t really illustrate quite yet. Boy gets taken under suspicious circumstances that could imply HNL meddling, but this time the supernatural kid is able to save him and bring him back. Owens becomes interested by this and comes to study Will in S2.

Owens also mentions that he has risked his family’s lives for the sake of their research, which I feel is relevant here. He’s talking about the current day NINA Project… but it could of course be a reference to the fact that this happened before, and ended in tragedy.

So wow, that got long! I didn’t even get to mention the Fringe parallels that people have brought up. This is just going to be Part 1 into my investigation of Petergate.

There’s so much promise in this potential storyline that I think really needs to get investigated, so I hope this interested people regardless of whether or not they’ve already come across Petergate. The fact that Henry’s time in Nevada is such a major gap in his backstory really fascinates me as to what they’re hiding from us.

[kradogsrats]

Sorry but I need to revisit the growth cycle of Wormvaros/Sir Sparklepuff

I know literally no one likes to think about this because it occupies that deeply weird niche where "visceral body horror" and "uncomfortable awareness that someone out there has this fetish" overlap but bear with me.

Back in the post-s3 days, I concluded that Wormvaros grows due to crossing into Xadia where magic is plentiful, basically absorbing magic and funneling it to Aaravos, which is why Aaravos has Viren go after powerful magic sources in the Sunforge and Zym. Then I just kind of never thought about it again.

But that's wasn't even accurate then: Wormvaros starts growing at a very specific point, and that point is somewhere between when Aaravos and Viren discuss visiting Lux Aurea and when the Sunforge is corrupted. Before that, it doesn't grow at all.

When Aaravos is pitching the plan to Trojan Horse into Lux Aurea, Wormvaros is his regular 2-inch or so Hot Topic earcuff size:

Then when it emerges at the Sunforge, it's suddenly like... a solid 2 feet long? I'll spare all of us the disgorgement shot, here it is crawling up Viren's arm for scale:

Now, the timeline of events in this series is... fuzzy, at best, but I don't think it's incorrect to interpret that the entire Lux Aurea business takes place in a single day. At the least, I think the Sunforge corruption and Viren walking back to the camp are the same day. By that point, Wormvaros has already grown into a jaunty scarf. By sometime mid-next day, it has attained its full drag show fabulous feather boa status.

Wormvaros grows exponentially within the 18-24 hours between the Sunforge and the final battle, presumably feeding/having fed on the massive source of corrupted magic that was formerly the Sun nexus. Except that's not quite right, either: Wormvaros has already had its first growth spurt before the Sunforge is corrupted.

Also just to quickly go over this scene in light of s5... Wormvaros bites Pharos, and the corruption then goes from Pharos to the Sun primal stone in the staff, and from there to the Sunforge itself. The artbook, of all places, notes that Pharos (there just "Sunfire High Priest") has a "direct connection to the Sun primal [that] helps him channel the incalculable power of the Sunforge."

The "direct connection to the Sun primal" bit is I think a bit misleading, since that should describe... every Sun primal mage, at minimum. Channeling the power of the Sunforge, however, explains the transmission of the corruption. It's not an accident of proximity that makes Wormvaros go for Pharos, it's that there has to be a transmission vector from Wormvaros to the Sunforge, and it's Pharos's arcanum during this ritual where the Sunforge's power is brought to bear.

But anyway, back to Wormvaros's growth. Viren is also exposed to the power of the Sunforge when he's tested in the throne room, though on a smaller scale. I bet that's when Wormvaros starts to feed.

I still think the magic has to be corrupted to be of use to Aaravos's specific purpose, here: neither the Sunforge nor the staff are diminished, so the power is either being replenished as fast as it's consumed or the corruption was itself the act of consumption. I feel like you could even say that the corruption of Sunforge power also happens in the throne room test ritual, in that whatever power from the Sunforge reaches Wormvaros where it's hiding inside Viren, it could easily have been filtered through and affected by Viren's own corruption.

On the one hand, all of this means that by whatever method Wormvaros... got inside Viren to Trojan Horse into Lux Aurea, it was still comfortably small at the time. On the other hand, it also means Wormvaros grew to like 10x its former size in the space of a few hours, while inside. Which... hhhnnnnnrrggh.

No, don't leave yet. I promise I have an additional point that's not just making everyone exquisitely uncomfortable about mpreg.

Wormvaros goes from a static, growthless state to a period of rapid maturing when exposed to the Sunforge. The Sun primal. The sun. After some time it returns to a similar hibernating state in the chrysalis. And then:

Hmmm.

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

Out of touch

Every time Syd and Carmy physically touched (so far)

Season 1

01X02 - Hands

01x07 - Review

The first time she touched him and he actually registered her touch, because the previous time it was in the middle of a fight, he wasn't thinking.

Season 2

02x02 - Pasta

02X03 - Sundae

02X08 - Bolognese

Let's go with the bonus track right now: This Sharpie touch doesn't count, right?

But when he pointed at those stains, he said: "Actually, I've got something for you. Uh... For later."

And she started to take off her jacket:

And then as she continued undressing in front of him, so to speak, he said:

Because he had forgotten to call the fridge guy. Again.

I just find it funny that that was his word choice as she was taking off her jacket... he could have said: "Damn it!" or cussed in any other way, but he looked at her straight in the eye, as she was removing her chef's whites right in front of him and went: "Fuck me!". No touching, though. OK, moving on.

Season 3

In S3 it's like they are deliberately trying not to touch:

03x01 - Tomorrow

Avoiding contact, but close. In every sense, which is a rapport they maintained throughout the whole season, till Forever.

03X10 - Forever

So what we have here is literally Sydcarmy being OUT OF TOUCH with each other, very clearly and graphically depicted by Storer throughout S3, and an even clearer decrease in contact if we take into account all 3 seasons.

It's not like they touched so much before but we can clearly see the decrease in contact.

The physicality wasn't there, and neither was the best verbal communication to compensate for the lack of it.

They were growing apart and not talking about it.

There was less contact in every sense, not just physical but the physical manifestation was just ANOTHER manifestation of their distance, which obviously was also emotional.

So, my guess is that in S4 we will either get a SIMULTANEOUS recovery in the physical aspect and better verbal communication because this was rock bottom and there's no way but up from here, plus the CRISIS of Syd probably quitting will force a change

OR

What we will see FIRST is a PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION of non-verbal communication + a PROGRESSIVE IMPROVEMENT in verbal communication.

Because they will either get out of the woods all at once, during an EPIC argument or any situation where emotions are running high and they have NO FILTER, which is what I hope happens.

OR

The change will be progressive, slow but sure, and the full manifestation of it will be explicit by eps 4x9/4x10, which may or may not be the series finale, as S5 is not confirmed yet but by the time S4 is out, it may be... who knows? If this is how Storer decides to go about it, then the PHYSICAL aspect will be the first thing we see, the non-verbal shift, and THEN the verbal communication will follow and they will start using words that actually matter, FULL SENTENCES, as opposed to leaving most things unsaid or "saving it for later" because there may not be a later to talk about anyway.

[dukeofdelirium]

https://www.tumblr.com/greenfiend/760014880863649792

these people are gonna explode when S5 drops

“who cares about his crush”

1) it isn’t a crush, he’s in love w Mike and

2) hundreds of thousands of ppl care just on tumblr alone

“the story is about monsters”

I mean… yeah, somewhat. But those monsters very clearly represent something. Like homophobia and the AIDS epidemic, which tie in to Will’s character and also into Mike and Will’s relationship. I mean, the allusions to this have been very on the nose every season, especially s2 with how the doctors/scientists treated Will in comparison to how gay men were treated during the AIDS epidemic.

“His scenes are pointless distraction from the larger story”

Will is literally the confirmed main character and focal point of the 5th and final season. He was the entire reason this story even happened at all. He was the one singled out and taken to the upside down. He was the focal point of the entirety of s2. And in s3 and s4, the moment he isn’t the focus, the show declines in quality. The entire time that Will is focused on in these seasons, the writing forces you to feel bad for him and forces you to simultaneously hate anything and anyone that is upsetting him. S3 and s4 weren’t about some gay kid pining hopelessly over an unattainable straight friend. It was written to make you hate Mike and El together. It was written to make you want Mike to be with Will where he actually acts like himself again. It wasn’t about Will being alone and sad, it was about Mike not being with him when you know he should be.

What do these ppl think is gonna happen in s5? Do they actually think that Will is going to confess his undying love for Mike that is unrequited and that Mike will be like “that’s weird of you Will and I don’t feel the same but we can stay besties <3” and then Will is like “no Mike I totally get it, I’m gonna kms now so you an El can go to the local village with 3 waterfalls” and then he just walks into the upside down and dies and it all fades away or something? 😂😂😂😂😂

The upside down, the monsters, all of it is a manifestation of Will’s trauma and emotions. It’s a metaphor for the homophobia and abuse he has experienced as a young gay kid, as well as being closeted as a survival tactic… hello, Will is trapped in a cold, dark and lifeless world where nothing can survive (he can’t breathe, the air is toxic, it’s suffocating) and he is forced to hide there but he is really good at hiding (bc you get really good at hiding who you are in order to live) and his best friend Mike, who is literally a Paladin in D&D (like his knight in shining armor) must rescue him from this scary world (the closet) *wink wink nudge nudge*

It’s literally a gay love story between childhood friends with the cool sci-fi and horror elements tacked on enough to where you won’t notice it until you either care enough to analyze the show OR you watch the final season and it slaps you across the face in a very unsubtle way (byler endgame)

[theflyindutchwoman]

I got asked this question and loved it so much, I wanted to open it up to the group.

If you could choose 5 Chenford scenes to rewrite, which would you choose, and how would you rewrite them?

Oooh thank you for 'tagging' me, Becca ♡ It is a great question! Let's see…

4.17 - The ending So technically, this isn't a Chenford scene… But this is partly why I would want it to be rewritten. Let's start with the most egregious part : having Lucy apparently forgive Chris and act like he hadn't just callously triggered her… or like she hadn't just watched the video recording her own death… That ending bothered me so much. Ideally, I wish she would have kicked him to the curb - or, at least, ask for some space after what he did… and I would have loved a final scene between her and Tim. One where she would have confided in him about watching the cam footages, where they would have talked about that day and her trauma… I love that she was able to work through it all by herself, that she found her voice so to speak and refused to play Rosalind's mind games… But somehow, I can't help but think that not having a single Chenford scene was a missed opportunity.

5.04 - The ending Since we're on that topic… Now, this was an even bigger missed opportunity. I still can't believe that we didn't get a scene between Lucy and Tim following Rosalind's death. And by that, I mean, a proper scene with some emotions and some feelings… I get that during the episode, they were too busy trying to find a way to save Bailey. I also get that things were still awkward between them. But come on, I don't believe for a second that this would have stopped Tim. This is the same man who didn't even think before grabbing her hand in the middle of their undercover op when they found out about Rosalind's escape… the same man who was panicking when Lucy was radio silent… I needed that same energy here. What we got instead was a bit too cold for me.

5.13 - Missing scene : the morning after You have no idea how much I was hoping for this scene… Something soft and domestic… with a reference to the DOD tattoo!

5.16 - Their fight about the five-player trade That scene still puzzles me. It felt forced and clunky. We didn't really get to see Tim's perspective and why he was mad at Lucy. In the shop, it sounded like he was upset with how her move would reflect on him… But in his office, they only talked about her going behind his back. So, in the end, it felt superficial. I'm not saying he was wrong by the way… I just wish his point of view could have been explored more. Both of their perspectives actually. Especially since Lucy paid a hefty price in the end. I guess the point was to show the cracks in their foundation, but it could have been done in a better way.

6.01/6.02 - Their fight Lucy's anxiety and potential doubts about UC were just swept entirely under the rug and the narrative simply focused on Tim's own issue with UC. But one issue doesn't negate the other. There were two problems here and only one got addressed - and barely at that. After all the crumbs from s5, all the times Tim walked away from having a real conversation on the topic, I needed more than 'I will deal with this' / 'we'll figure it out'. It's great that he was finally honest with himself but it still didn't go any further than that. And then, there's Lucy. I was hoping her anxiety would be the precursor for a bigger discussion about Lucy's future and her mental health, about her feelings about UC outside of Tim… but nope. Her spiraling was already forgotten in 6.02. And it is a bit frustrating.

[saurongorthaur9]

So something logistical occurred to me that makes the "Galadriel goes dark" theory even more likely, in my view. I realized that come season 3, Sauron is going to be lacking characters to be his main scene partner. Celebrimbor will be gone. Based on footage we've seen, I think Adar is a dead man walking too. And it's too early to go to Numenor to mess with Pharazon. Sauron's to-do list includes anything from distributing the nine rings, making the One Ring, making himself King of Men, and waging war on the elves. I feel like I can see a lack of opportunities for some other character to come in and interact with him one on one heavily during this period besides orcs and/or random new human lords (OCs no doubt)... The creators seem to like the idea of Sauron having a main scene partner also and idk I feel like Galadriel remains the best option and they probably think the same. She could be that without going dark side of course - maybe if he captures her and she's his prisoner for a while. But her being there by *choice* makes for such interesting potential conversations between them as the story evolves, as we we see her potentially struggling with coming back to the light.

That's a very good point. Charlie is a great actor, but he (and Sauron) are definitely at his peak when he's got a scene partner and I think the showrunners know that. I do think the canon focus of S3 will be the creation of the One and the seducing of the Nazgul, which will be great in any scenario, but it would definitely make S3 juicier to somehow put him and Galadriel back together as scene partners.

A reasonable alternative that I could see them going with though is bringing in the Witch King as a main new character next season and focusing on his relationship with Sauron and his rise to Sauron's new second-in-command. I wouldn't be opposed to that at all.

But I also keep thinking, if Galadriel is 100% successful in resisting Sauron's Temptation 2.0 at the end of S2, where does that leave her character development to go for the next three seasons? She will have won back the trust of the elves, she will have successfully resisted Sauron, and she'll be well on her way to being the wiser Galadriel of LOTR without many obstacles left in her way.

On the other hand, if they do go with a corruption arc, I could very well see it going like this:

S2 Finale: Galadriel succumbs to Sauron's temptation and agrees to work with him to some extent.

S3: Galadriel struggles with her corruption arc, seeing how her joining Sauron is corrupting both her and everything she loves. S3 finale: Celeborn returns and plays a critical role in helping her find her way back to the light.

S4: Galadriel struggles with the trauma of anything she might have done or helped Sauron do in S3, and she reconnects with Celeborn and finds peace and hope with him and is able to contrast that to how she felt at Sauron's side.

S5: Galadriel and Celeborn found Lothlorien and Galadriel completes her arc into the wiser but grief-filled elven queen that we know in LOTR.

In my opinion, that would be such a compelling arc. It would also allow Galadriel to continue having a dynamic arc in S4, which is probably going to be the Fall of Numenor, where otherwise she could kind of fade into the background and not have much of a story for that season.

Obviously, this is all just my speculation and I know what a huge risk such a story would be for the showrunners, so I'm really trying with all my might not to get my hopes up. But gosh, if they went there, I would eat up that storyline like dessert.

[bugsbenefit]

seeing a "Mike is completely oblivious to his feelings and doesn't know he's in love with Will" take float on my dash from the wild and... i'm sorry i hate this interpretations so much. everyone can see things differently, but Mike having no clue of his own feelings makes absolutely no sense with what we see on screen to me. none

if this is ranty ignore little old me, i just need to complain today lmao

not only does Mike pause to look at Will's lips multiple times, which you could maybe argue he just doesn't realize anymore (doubtful since it's not something he's always done, it only started in s3 which is less than a full year away from s4 canonically)

there's also the whole fact that nothing else of his s4 conflict would make sense anymore. if Mike didn't know he didn't love El, what was he worried about telling her then, that she wouldn't like the truth of? it can't be that he loves her because he knows she would like that. Mike has to consciously be aware of something he knows he should tell El, but can't, because he's scared of how she'll take it

the same also goes for the sbp scene where Mike looks back at Will, shocked or conflicted, because Will is pushing him to confess to El. the initial shock would be inappropriate if Mike was already planning to tell El he loved her anyways and had no idea he actually loved Will

it also means that Mike didn't intentionally lie during the monologue with is almost more egregious because we saw Mike talk to the other's about sending El to Pennhurst with 0 concerns. he didn't know El overheard that so it might be something he thinks El could believe. but he himself would remember that he didn't "fall in love with her that moment", saying otherwise just makes Mike look like the dumbest, most unaware character in the whole show by far. not even just the show, it would probably make him one of the most oblivious characters out of Any show i can think of right now actually

it would also make no sense why we're completely barred from Mike's inner feelings during the monologue. if Mike genuinely believed what he was saying we'd be allowed to know his thoughts, since they wouldn't spoil anything yet. but alas, not only does Finn keep his lips sealed, even the rough drafts from three years ago skip over his internal feelings or thoughts completely which is extremely unusual for an emotional monologue of this importance and magnitude

everything else aside, the idea that Mike would just. not realize. he's queer and in love with his best friend is kind of bizarre to me. it really plays into the fanon version of Mike who is inhumanly oblivious and stupid. because canon Mike is actually not that bad with feelings, he can articulate himself if he wants to and he can pick up on and explain complex emotions he himself feels all the way back in s1. saying that Mike is genuinely too oblivious to realize his feelings isn't at all in line with his canon characterization

and besides it not making sense for his character. it's also a nonsensical choice from a writers perspective. if Mike would genuinely be unaware of his feelings for Will and his queerness; Byler would be rushed. i'm excited for Byler as much as the next person but this would be a horrible way to go about it. because s5 would then need to include:

Mike realizing he's not in love with El

Mike realizing he's queer

Mike dealing with the consequences of being queer in the 80s/coming to terms with said queerness to the point he feels comfortable acting on it

Mike realizing he's in love with Will

Mike and El finally breaking up

Mike and Will confessing to each other and getting together

that is an absurd amount of things to cram into a single seasons and essentially a character 180 in 8ish episodes. and all these points also need space and time to breathe to sit well with the audience. having Mike realize he's not in love with El and realize he's in love with Will would need a significant pause in between to feel good for the audience, but there's only so much time left. that will feel rushed no matter how well you write it. if they just revealed Mike being queer and in love with Will to the audience while having him already be aware of it we'd skip steps 1-4 on this list. the audience getting new information and recontextualizing things that already happened takes significantly less time than having a character go through the realizations first hand since that takes more development time

at this point, there's no way to write Mike realizing he's queer from scratch well with only one season left. there just isn't. especially with the amount of plot we need to cover in s5, the action, and all the other characters that need solid endings. opening a whole new can of worms for Mike is counterproductive. last seasons close character arcs, they don't kick new one's up that would take forever to properly flesh out

the thing that just really bothers me about this whole, "Mike doesn't know yet, he's oblivious" narrative, besides making little sense from a writer's pov and directly contradicting his canon character. is also that most takes just read extremely belittling. because a lot of people who say this seem to be aware that there won't be time to properly explore Mike's character or feelings like this. and they're fine with it because Mike will just be "Will's boyfriend", and only Will needs to come to terms with his queerness, Mike doesn't need an arc. and it's weird. the idea that Mike will have his whole queer realization in s5 hinges on the fact that Mike's character isn't important enough to get a fully fleshed out arc/time to naturally move from point A to point B, and that he'll just go from one relationship to the next with no problems

[purble-turble]

Id think prince reds perspective of wukong would of changed somewhat after s5. Mean he was present with him to try and stop mk right?

Meaning he would of been there to see not only him try to take mks place and also see and hear his heart wrenching screaming for mk. How broken he was afterwards about it.

Wukong the monkie king who was so terrified of death was willing to die for mk. That's gotta shift reds feelings to the king at least a little.

Oh yeah, this is an excellent point! Prince Red’s whole beef with Sun Wukong in this AU is that he “gave” MK his powers in order to become his successor, and Red just finds that incredibly selfish and lazy and is furious that it’s putting this innocent (handsome) young man into harm’s way just so Sun Wukong doesn’t have to deal with all his own past enemies and can foist them onto this boy… well, I mean, with the revelation of what MK really is starting in season 4 and then at the end of season 5, I’m sure all that comes into question. Turns out Wukong didn’t “give” his powers to MK so much as he kinda already had them?? And he’s also a stone monkey? And he was created specifically by Nuwa to bring about the end of this cycle of existence and usher in a new one… Well… it’s… kinda hard to be mad at Wukong for endangering MK when it turns out he was secretly just as confused about MK as everyone else and was just trying to make the best of it.

At the end of season 4, when it’s semi-revealed that MK is a stone monkey and Wukong didn’t, like, make him that way.. I think Prince Red would try to corner Wukong at some point (maybe during their beach party) and insists he tell him the truth. That’s the point where he learns that Wukong doesn’t actually know what MK’s deal is, he just kinda found this kid who has his powers and started watching him, and then figured he’d help out by mentoring him and the successor thing was kind of a last minute idea he had when the kid showed up begging him to do some hero stuff. Anyway, Red is still mad that Wukong kept all this to himself, but he at least can let go of the misplaced anger he had for Sun Wukojng “choosing” the Monkie Kid to do his dirty work.

Then, during season 5, Prince Red is there to witness Sun Wukong desperately fighting MK to try and save him, to take his place, even. Even though neither of them is able to actually stop MK, once it’s all over, Red is able to really appreciate just how much Wukong cares for MK as well. Maybe he didn’t want to see it before, too wrapped up in his own perspective of things and refusing to see what was there all along. Sun Wukong does actually love MK too. He cares about his successor, and not just because he fights his old enemies and deals with his problems, but in fact he loves him so much he was willing to die for him. The monkey who feared death so much he became immortal seven times over was willing to throw that all away for this boy…. That definitely counts for something.

So, while Prince Red is too upset to stay with MK after everything that’s happened, he at least can finally let go of any lingering anger he had left for Sun Wukong. The Monkey King might be an annoying, selfish, lazy simian who doesn’t think things through, but it’s clear he cares deeply about MK. So Red is comforted by the fact that the boy he loves will still have someone else around to protect him now that he’s leaving.