#chat blanc my beloathed

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I will forever hold the opinion that Chat Blanc should’ve been a nightmare, hallucination, or otherwise hypothetical/not real scenario rather than a real event.

I can get behind something happening that causes a rift between Ladybug and Chat Noir, these kind of character plots can be interesting if done right, but they never should’ve given a legitimate reason that Adrien shouldn’t wield the power of Destruction or that Ladybug can’t actually trust him with information (or at all). Because the potential of Chat Noir actually becoming Blanc because he knows her identity (while not the full reason, that’s the big one to Ladybug) makes him way too big of a risk to keep on the team, and therefore almost justifies her distancing him (narratively at least, I don’t actually think that was the right move, even in this context, kinda like how she didn’t tell Chloe she couldn’t be Queen Bee anymore right away).

I will never get why the writers are so intent on making one of their main heroes seem unfit for the job. If he’s not fit for it, then he never should’ve been a hero in the first place! And yet that’s somehow not the story they’re trying to tell here? Oh, he is a good fit for the Miraculous? Then stop trying to make him incompetent or dangerous!!!

I actually don't mind Chat Blanc being a thing. I even have an ideal version of it that I'd love to see play out with pretty visuals for all the big dramatic scenes.

The idea that Chat Noir can be akumatized doesn't make him a bad hero because the message should be that everyone is capable of being akumatized. Rena Rouge, Queen Bee, and Carapace were all akumatized during the season two final, but they kept their roles on the team. I have no problem with that. Marinette has almost been akumatized multiple times and she never considered giving up her miraculous, nor should she. Everyone is going to have dark moments. It's not some massive failing.

The problems with Chat Blanc are:

The way time travel is used, making Bunnyx god

Adrien being able to lose while Marinette is there, which should never happen in a power of love show

The fact that the writers are using Chat Blanc to argue that Adrien can't be trusted with the truth

The fact that the writers present Chat Blanc as Marinette's failing/an identity reveal problem

I think the first two issues are self explanatory, so let's focus on the final two as they're insane writing choices.

Adrien learning the truth during a fight with his father is a great setup for him being akumatized! I don't have any issues with it. Remove Marinette from the scene and Adrien going full Chat Blanc is fine by me! The problem is that this isn't being presented as a warning that Adrien needs to learn the truth outside of the final battle (reasonable and what I thought this episode was doing at first). It's being presented as an argument that Adrien can never be told the truth because he's just too weak and unstable to handle the truth (asinine). If that's really what they're going for, and it does seem to be, then Adrien is completely unqualified to be a hero.

Similarly, past Marinette being the one to stop Chat Blanc doesn't bother me. The problem is that adult Bunnyx does nothing to contradict Marinette's conclusion that this means that Chat Noir can never be told the truth. That's not the right takeaway here, but Bunnyx doesn't contradict it. She actually goes so far as to throw Alya under the bus. Rude, Alix! Rude. And really weird since Marinette will willingly tell Alya her secret identity within a few episodes, which Alix should know? Alix's knowledge of the future is really confusing.

Bunnyx: Do you know how Cat Noir found out about your secret identity? Ladybug: I think so. When I went into Adrien's house as Ladybug, he probably saw me. He figured out that Ladybug is Marinette because of the note written on the gift. But I'm not sure what happened next. Bunnyx: He probably told his friend Nino, who told Alya, who wrote about it on the Ladyblog. Ladybug: Mm.. They would never do that. But Adrien probably told someone, who told someone else, and so on, until it was all over the news! The best-kept secrets are the ones you never share.

That final line from Ladybug should have been met with Bunnyx saying something like,

"There are times when it's good to share a secret! This just happened to not be one of those times, but this outcome isn't guaranteed. It's just what happened in this specific scenario. Another time, not sharing could lead us here. Don't let fear of the future keep you from doing what logic says is right."

Something, anything, to imply that Marinette wasn't at fault and that secrets are complex things. Instead we get yet another wacky implication that an identity reveal will destroy Ladybug and Chat Noir, so they have to keep their secrets or give up their miraculous. Yay!

All that being said, my ideal Chat Blanc would not work in canon's padded-to-shit writing, so I do agree that it was a bad call. Chat Blanc only makes sense if the end goal is plot progression. Instead, it's used for plot stagnation and I hate it!

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I wouldn’t call Adrien seeing his dead mom a “mild inconvenience”. And as for the amok thing, we’ve seen an amok go against their creator’s wishes. (In “Ladybug” SentiBug actually rebelled against Mayura until Mayura killed her off”)

But yeah, outside of the trauma, it’s weird and kinda bothering that Adrien is the only one out of the cast to not break out of an akuma at all.

Do you think Chat Blanc really is that big of a LS killer, or do you think that people who already didnt like the ship just cling on as proof that is a bad ship?

I can’t speak for others but it’s what hit every pet peeve of mine regarding the ship

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Fun challenge idea: You have to make a 26 episode season of ML using the episodes from all 5 seasons, that goes from beginning to end of the series so far. (Operate under assumption that two parters are just one longer episode, that way it burns less episodes)

The episodes I feel have to be used are:

Origins, Heroes Day, Miracle Queen, Risk/Strikeback, Finale (Duh)

Sapotis, Anansi, Style Queen, Malediktator (S2 Heroes Important)

Volpina + Collector (Fu + HM)

Feast, Representation (Important Backstory shit)

Those are what O had off the top of my head.

Ah. Hm. Yeah the openings/finales of every episode is needed. And at least the Main 5 Hero Debuts. A lot of the Zodiac Heroes would get shafted, but I think we could have the Luka, Kagami and Alix episodes. So uh.

Origins

Pharoh(establishes how old the Miraculous are)

Volpina

The Collector

Sapotis

Queen's Battle(we're condensing the trio)

Anansi

Heroes' Day

Chameleon (Lila's return and shows she's being a threat)

Feast

Desperada (Luka's Hero Debut)

Miraculer (more on Chloé, whether you want redemption or downfall. First example of someone rejecting Akumatization)

Ikari Gozen (Kagami's Hero Debut)

Timetagger (Bunnyx appears)

Chat Blanc(Establishes Mari's trauma re: Identities)

Ladybug (Lila being a threat again plus if they wrote it better could set up Sentiplot)

Miracle Queen (My beloathed)

Gang of Secrets (Alya knows now)

Wishmaker(Luka knows now)

Queen Banana (make this Zoé's intro + her replacing Chloé)

Gabriel Agreste (Make this Felix's debut. Establishes him/his knowledge and skill, his future plans)

Risk/Strikeback

Destruction(Gabe getting Cataclysmed)

Emotion (Felix's whole plan. Maybe combine this with Pretension?)

Confrontation/Collusion/Revolution(Combining these three because they're basically a long episode even if they're not officially a multi=parter)

Confirmation/Recreation

[everythings-a-feather]

ok so now that we have the whole season I redid the tier list (I belive by @polkadotbrat)

and very quick thoughts, these were supposed to be a sentence each but I couldnt help myself

ma poule tier- its all the felix episodes cuz I am only invested in him at this point) strike back may be my overall fav this season cuz I was torn between wanting felix to be the dog and the peacock but strike back let me have my cake and eat it too also ik that felix giving hawkie the whole miracle box is like an awful betrayal or whatever but the miraculous zoo is gone thank god tho the ladynoir moment had me feeling empty and I just cant empathise with marinette at all at this point because none of the things she actually fucked up this whole season blew up in her face she just got played by felix and honestly good for felix. Also isnt lucky charms whole thing "it gives you what you need not what you want" and it pointed at felix, when Marinette could have picked up Adrien from the past TM before risk was active instead of Felix whos just unaffected. tho maybe its just that in Felix the episode its established that he can throw with dead accuracy so the lucky charm lead her to felix because hes good at throwing??? idk man ML is weird with this stuff

silver medal- Psychomedian almost made it to ma poule because ladynoir my formerly beloved but as my investment in them as of end of season 4 is dead its getting knocked down a tier. Crocoduel, purple tigress my beloved. Glaciator 2, Marichat shenanigans were very fun. WIshmaker, I like luka in this one and if the show pretends ephemeral never happened and he gets to do actual things I might actually like luka overall. Rocketear, angst my beloved, spawned good fics, detective nino was funny.

did something for someone- Gang of Secrets, eh honestly idc but the adressing of Marinette being stressed is nice, Hack-san, I liked scarabella and chats dynamic, please let there be canon bridgette so that felila is guaranteed to never happen tho canon bri will also need a personality shift (maybe be more Lawful Good than she already was to balance Felix being chaos energy?). Optigami- smart plan ig. Mister Pigeon 72, all it did was convince me that it should have been Marigami and Lukeadrien not Adrigami and Lukanette tbh, Hawkmoth x Mr Pigeon my... I wanna say crack ship beloved but I seriously think Feluka could work and Im not sure if theyre aware of each others existence since Luka isnt in Adriens class (Im not rewatching "Felix" to confirm this). Sentibubbler, congrats Alya stans? closest to being in the next tier

(un) bothered- Dearest family, I had hopes but the episode is eh. Furious Fu- Order of the guardians should have stayed dead. Guilt trip- Marinette... please Adrien almost has this covered. Penalteam, eh, powers underutilised here, tho I really like Penalty. Megaleech, SAMG was wasted on this episode. Truth and Lies- (total deadpan) oh no Lukanette and Adrigami the two ships we saw develop so much on screen and I was completely emotionally invested in and that the NY special didnt tell us broke up immediately after they started dating, seriously tho I cant take lukanette seriously as a pairing and Adrigami has potential but im kinda eh also Kagami literally has the "I will lose the love triangle" hair so.

Incredible anger- EPHEMERAL MY BELOATHED "BUT I DONT LIKE CHAT NOIR" GIRL WDYM WE SEE THE WAY YOU TWO LOOK AT EACH OTHER LUKA SPEEDRAN MY BELOVED TO MY BELOATHED EPHEMERAL LOOKED UGLY THE WRITERS DIDNT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE LIKE CHAT BLANC. Kuro neko, almost everything @parismystere has said about this episode, I was clowning and hoping it would be a "adrien I need you to be a temp cat while I find Chat Noir" while Felix is in town idc about the middle but Adrien does tell felix he is chat so Felix as adrien says "oh well I happen to know chat noirs identity-" and gives the ring back to adrien while also solving the "we cant reach chat cuz no one knows his identity" problem cuz 'Adrien' knows who chat is, also this would tip them off to something fishy going on with Felix' well... Id say betrayal but for that Felix would have had to have been on their side and Felix doesnt seem to be interested in LB and CNs miraculous anyway. Sole Crusher and Queen Banana- Zoe my beloathed, also Id watch Chloes movie over whatever garbage they were actually filming any day, a chaotic bad movie is always better than a boring one.

I couldnt finish Qilin or simpleman and I dont wanna waste energy on them

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The thing about them making Gabriel seem like a good parent by making Colt an abusive parent to Felix is that's it way too late to do that. We already seen that the moment Gabriel finds out his son is Chat Noir, he will barely hesitate to mentally break his son to akumatize him, even resorting to beating him up.

The fact they still expect us to buy this narrative in Season 5 that Gabriel was a good parent to Adrien after all of that is quite frankly insulting.

Chat Blanc and Ephemeral were mistakes by pretty much every conceivable metric. The only good thing they added was angst fodder for the fandom and it wasn't even really needed because the fandom was WAY ahead of canon on the rather obvious idea of Chat Blanc.

Fun fact: before we got the canon look, the popular idea in fanon was that Chat Blanc would have pink eyes because, if you invert the colors on something, green becomes pink just like black becomes white. Meanwhile green to blue seemed like the obvious default to me because I've always loved Danny Phantom and, well, just look at his human form vs his ghost form:

So that is one point I will give canon. Blue eyes was totally the right design choice in my book. Props to the art team for the extra effort.

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One person said that Adrien being so afraid of his father in Cat Blanc and Ephemeral despite being brave most of the time is a good depiction of an abuse victim, what can you say to counter that?

I wouldn't counter that because they're correct. It's one of the many reasons I think those episodes were huge missteps. Chat Blanc was the episode that made canon Gabriel irredeemable in my eyes. I wouldn't trust a show aimed at adults to pull off such a complex redemption let alone one aimed at kids!

If they wanted season five's ending to work, then Chat Blanc and Ephemeral needed Gabriel to be played WAY more remorseful. Less gleefully torturing his son and more "I'm sorry, Adrien, but I have to do this for the greater good and you won't remember if anyway."

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Okay so a thing that has bothered me ever since I first watched Chat Blanc was Bunnyx and the general time travel stuff because tghis makes no sense. In the Chat Blanc time line, after Chat Blanc destroyes the universe, everyone is dead. Including adult!Alix aka Bunnyx. So the Bunnyx fron the Chat Blanc timeline doesn'rt exist anymore, meaning that the Bunnyx fron the episode is from a parallel timeline where Chat Blanc didn't destroy the universe. That however raises the question why she would even care about that other timeline. Is her quest to assure victory over Monarch in every single timeline because that sounds exhausting as hell. I also don't understand the deal with her leg disappearing while she witnesses the fight between LB and CB, it has no reason to, because LB defeating CB doesn't have any effect on Bunnyx because, as stated earlier, the Bunnyx from that timeline is already dead! And honestly, the fact that Lb even had to fight CB makes no sense. They could've just went back in time 2 minutes so LB can erase her name from the letter (or just be quicker so Adrien doesn't see her) and CB doesn't happen in the first place!

Like, genuine question, what was the point of the whole thing? I mean other than the concept is cool and the writers wanted to give LB trauma (which never really plays a significant part in the overall story anyway??)

Sorry for rambling so much, I don't know if this makes any sense, the episode was really confusing to me and idk if it's just because the episode actually doesn't make sense or because I just don't understand it bc time travel is really confusing. Would really love to hear your opinion!

You're fine and you're not missing a thing. The episode simply doesn't make sense nor am I sure why it even exists. I know a lot of people love it, but I really don't get the hype. It runs off of nonsense logic and makes most of the characters look really bad.

Let's start with the lore.

The canon lore is that Bunnyx only travels through time, not universes, so it makes no freaking sense that an adult Bunnyx would be able to stop Chat Blanc since the existence of Chat Blanc should stop her from existing. It's a total paradox that goes against everything we'd been told about her powers. Of course, she's also supposed to be the hero of last resort, yet we hear about her hanging out with famous historical figures and the season five final sees her acting as a substitute for the horse miraculous even though the people she portals in don't do a thing to help with the final battle, so it's not like Chat Blanc is the only time her powers and role get ignored. Any time I use the rabbit, I have to completely rework its lore because canon is just so bad at time travel. I like Alix and her adult design is awesome, but any time Bunnyx shows up, I expect to be annoyed.

Also, I will never forgive her for just dumping Ladybug back in our time without so much as a word of encouragement or any reassurance that the Chat Blanc stuff was only a maybe. And Ladybug was the one to figure out how to fix time!!! Alix, you suck at your job! Or this is just another case of the writers refusing to let someone other than Marinette save the day even though the poor girl really needs a day off.

As for why this episode exists? I don't even know, dude. It makes no sense. Back when we thought it was going to be a driving force in the season four conflict - an assumption that was backed up by Marinette's nightmare in sentibubbler - the episode kinda made sense in spite of its flaws. But we're two seasons past Chat Blanc and the only person who is apparently traumatized by it is Adrien.

Yes, the writers actually said this. No, you didn't miss an episode where Adrien learned about Chat Blanc. They were talking about the nightmares from the final:

Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.

Yes, this is embarrassingly bad writing. The character who never saw or even heard of Chat Blanc is somehow the one who is traumatized and effected by it while Marinette's trauma has nothing do to with Chat Blanc or the events of the season four final. Instead, it's random BS that was never even hinted at until season five. I just... what?

In case it wasn't obvious - which I guess it isn't given that professional writers missed this - the logical way to write this to have the season four conflict be about Chat Blanc from Ladybug's side. After the conflict ends, she reveals everything to Chat Noir who becomes terrified of hurting people with his powers. This is only exacerbated by the events of Destruction. But then the show would have had to let Chat Noir have a character arc that didn't revolve around Ladynette and the series seems allergic to that as a concept, so instead Adrien gets magical trauma that keeps him from the final fight. And I thought the Derision retcon was bad!

Other issues with Chat Blanc in no particular order:

It cements Nathalie as just as bad a Gabriel since she's the one who tells him Adrien's secret identity and we then see her do nothing to try to protect Adrien.

It makes Gabriel irredeemable by showing him gleefully hurting his child. Dude punts his son across the city with a smile on his face!

It makes Adrien look slimy since he asks Marinette out without telling her that he knows her secret identity. This one is in a bit of a grey area for me because the secret identity stuff is complicated, but Adrien has never been the one who cared about secret identities AND he's the one who has been directly turned down in hero form. The episode takes none of that into consideration with its writing and it really needed to for Adrien to feel like he had a valid point of view here. As is, he's taking advantage of a situation and putting his Lady love at risk for his own wants.

The pillow sniff scene makes Marinette look unhinged.

It spits in the face of The Power of Love by having Adrien's love fail to be enough to stop him from killing Marinette.

Marinette's parents should have gotten involved after Gabriel threatened her. There is no way in hell that I'd let my kid go over to the Agreste mansion after that. If the writers were once again determined to not let Tom and Sabine parent, then the threat should have come when Marinette was alone.

Why did Ladybug even need to go to the future if Bunnyx could have just gone back in time and stopped Ladybug from leaving the present for Adrien? Why did Chat Blanc even need to be defeated? What did Ladybug's ladybug actually fix when she cast her charm?

This is minor, but it bothers me: Chat Noir should not have been smiling and happy when he was freed from his akuma. That boy should have been in the middle of a breakdown.

I know people forgive some of the above because Chat Blanc is sort of an AU and I'm not going to say that's wrong, I just can't look at it that way because there's nothing that sets Chat Blanc apart from the normal timeline. The Paris special gives us an AU. Chat Blanc (and Ephemeral) are what the writers told us would happen in the canon timeline if Gabriel ever discovered his son's secrets. Canon Gabriel was the one doing those things and would have done them again if given the chance. This is who the writers said he is. Same goes for all the other characters who come across less than stellar here.

There's a reason why I love a good Chat Blanc rewrite. It's an idea with a lot of potential, but canon capitalizes on almost none of it.

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Honestly akumatization was turned into a joke at this point. Cause in the first 3 and half seasons it was treated as a corruption that was almost impossible to resist/break free of. Only incredibly strong willed like Chloe, Alya and Felix managed to do it. But by S5 they literally had Alix's Reddit conspirator brother, an AI and the teacher break free from the akumatization even easier than the previously much more plot important characters. At this point literally everyone except Adrien are capable of shrugging off an akumatization whenever they want to, even the literal background characters.

Also they had Kagami get akumatized over Lila's lies about Marinette and break free through the power of friendship ... just to then have Kagami get akumatized over Lila's lies about Marinette AGAIN but this time not even being able to break free, like what even was the point of that previous akumatization if you were just gonna have her character regress from it.

Every time someone breaks free of an akuma, I die a little inside because it's just such terrible writing on so many levels as you rightly pointed out.

The one that really gets me is the power of love one. Chat Blanc kind of worked back when we thought akumas couldn't be escaped. It was still a terrible idea to have any reality where Adrien could kill Marinette after they'd started dating, but at least it did kind of fit the lore.

Now that basically anyone can resist an akuma? I can not think of a better way to foreshadow the love square not being the end game than to have Adrien completely fail to overcome an akuma when the supposed love of his life was on the line. And then they repeated the issue in Ephemeral! Writers, is the power of love a joke to you? I really don't get how anyone can enjoy those episodes while shipping the square or why the writers ever thought they were good ideas.

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Miraculous is, at least in theory, a show about the power of love and friendship. We know this because the writers have flat out said that it's supposed to be a rom-com and because the title song always reminds us that, "the power of love [is] always so strong." There are other indicators, too, but I'm not going to dive into them because I don't think that it's controversial to say that this is what Miraculous is trying to be. I've never seen anyone argue that it's NOT supposed to be about love and friendship.

One of the defining features of these shows is the concept that love conquers all. In your darkest hour when all hope seems lost, love will empower you to make it through to victory. Cheesy? Sure! But if you're not willing to eat some cheese, then don't watch content about love and friendship. It's like coming to a slasher movie and complaining about all the blood and gore. If you don't want that stuff, then why are you even here?

This scene from the movie Sailor Moon R: The Promise of the Rose remains the ultimate example of how this genre works:

She literally stops a meteorite from hitting Earth because love and friendship. It's great. I love it. Quality content. This is what I want when I watch love and friendship shows.

What I don't want is to see the male romantic lead look his girlfriend in the eyes and kill her. That is not the power of love. That is not love conquering all. That is love failing. If you let love fail, then you are either not writing a power of love show or you're telling us that this person isn't the female lead's true love. Prime example, this scene from Frozen:

I don't even like Frozen, but I will give it full credit for understanding the genre it was part of. Even though the movie doesn't use romantic love to save Anna, it still uses the trope of true love's power to effectively establish who the bad guy is. I also don't think anyone really doubts that romantic love could have saved Anna. It totally would have worked! Elsa just got their first.

Even a dark take on the power of love wouldn't do what Chat Blanc did because it wasn't about unhealthy love winning. Love did nothing in Chat Blanc and that's why I say that it spits in the face of the genres that Miraculous is playing with. If you want to tell a story where the power of love is a thing, then love needs to be powerful. It needs to be greater than anger, sorrow, and manipulation. It needs to let the hero fight through their darkest hour and emerge victorious!

In other words, the only way to make Chat Blanc work is to have Marinette NOT be there. To have Adrien fail because he didn't have love to save him. As soon as Marinette is there, you cannot let Adrien fail. Her love has to let him win! This is especially true since the scene happens post reveal, meaning that Ladynoir should be at their strongest! There are no secrets left! There's just love and their partnership. And it failed. They lost. Their love wasn't enough to let Adrien overcome his darkest hour, so what are we even doing here?

Same goes for Ephemeral. It doesn't matter if Adrien is a puppet with no free will, love should overwrite that. That's just how this genre works and is why I keep saying that Miraculous is no longer a rom-com in my eyes. It's a straight up tragedy where the story has gone out of its way to make the male lead kind of worthless. I don't agree with that choice, but they're pretty clearly sticking to it, so I don't expect things to get better anytime soon.

This thoughts still cooking, so it might not make sense, but I think Thomas (Tomas?) Astruc is a very good case study on how being too attached to your own ideas can hinder your story telling.

I don't mean this in a "Thomas's original idea for the series was bad", but rather that he seems so attached to this concept that he can't stand other people having a differing view from him.

Chloe's the titular example here. Some people thought she deserved a redemption arc, and instead of just saying "nah, I don't think so" and continuing to write her the same way he had been, he had to prove them wrong, prove that his idea was the only correct one, and so turned her into the spawn of Satan and let her rule over Paris for some reason.

Instead of making Marinette less stalker-y, he wrote an entire episode poorly justifying it. And, imao, somewhat diminishing what PTSD actually is and does to people.

I'm not saying he has to make any change (though I think making Marinette less stalker-y would be a good change), but instead of 1.) sticking to his resolve or 2.) taking the criticism, he clung dearly onto this perception of his characters and his writing suffered because of how much he had to twist things to "prove" that his original assertions were right. And also that everyone who disagreed with him was wrong and didn't understand

idk if that makes sense, but the concepts been lingering in my head recently

It makes perfect sense! I've had similar thoughts. It's hard to say for sure, but Miraculous may be a case study in "kill your darlings". I'm not deep into the behind-the-scenes lore and I was not here in the early fandom, but I do know that, at some point, a much darker version of the show was pitched. That's why these exist (image source):

[Image description: two sketches styled like comic book covers. Both have the title "The Mini Menace Ladybug". The left cover shows Marinette's silhouette in a doorway. The door's glass and the glass of a nearby window are broken. In the foreground lies a hand holding a ladybug charm. The hand is limp and surrounded by blood, implying that someone is injured or dead. The right cover is Ladybug doing a spinning kick while looking angry.]

We also have this evidence of the darker original concept:

Jeremy Zag then proposed another project... which he was unable to sell to broadcasters... the project was called "Ladybug". No one was interested, as the project was aimed more at an adult audience... Sébastien had to make sure that the project could be broadcast on Disney and TF1.... Thomas wanted to make a series for adults, but at the time, it was very complicated to make a cartoon for adults. What's more, they didn't have enough money to take on such a project. Sébastien finally agreed, but there were some changes to be made, which Thomas accepted... In the end, Thomas Astruc's entire project was discarded, leaving only the love story between the two heroes and the city of Paris, where the story was to take place.

I've been aware of this darker origin story for a while due to Tumblr and, because of this knowledge, I have often had the thought, "are the writers trying to sneak elements from this darker version into canon?" Because that's the most likely explanation for what's going on here.

If I'm right, then I think that was a terrible move on their parts. They needed to let go of the story that they couldn't sell and embrace the story that they're being allowed to tell. It's why "kill you darlings" is such good advice. Many good stories have been ruined by writers clinging to an idea that ultimately doesn't work for some reason.

It's why the sitcom How I Met Your Mother has such a universally hated ending. The show was originally supposed to go for two seasons and so they wrote an ending that would fit the second season. The show ended up running for nine seasons and, by then, the ending didn't fit, but the writers kept it and left everyone with a bad taste in their mouths, which is not what any writer wants. That's why you have to do what's best for the story even if it means abandoning something that you really love.

This early version of canon may also be why the writers are so obsessed with Marinette. My understanding is that this concept had her mainly acting as a solo hero and, oh look! What is one of canon's biggest problems? Marinette being treated like a solo hero even though she has a partner and, later on, a team!

Not saying that this theory has to be true, just saying that it would explain some things. And if they're poisoning canon by trying to include elements from their darker original? Then it makes sense to assume that they're also doing it for smaller stuff. Like I'm pretty sure I've read that the head writer wanted Chat Blanc to be a lot darker originally, but no one would green light it, so we got an incredibly lackluster episode that spat in the face of the genres Miraculous' is trying to be part of while also falling to have the sort of impact we'd expect from an episode like that. It's a good example of a darling that really should have been killed. It just doesn't fit.

(Totally unrelated sidenote, but is your blog name from Tangled? Because that's what I immediately thought of and it made me smile!)

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To be fair, he did just see his dead mom and find out his dad is a super villain, so trauma has a major play here

Amok, trauma, akuma, or even all three, it really doesn't matter, the trope is "love conquers all" not "love conquers the mildly inconvenient." A big, dramatic situation like Adrien learning about his father's identity is the perfect setup to use the trope. The darker the situation, the more powerful the power of love moment feels.

That's definitely not universal. There are lots of genres where Adrien losing in Chat Blanc would make perfect sense, but in a show where a kiss can break a curse and the opening song tell us "the power of love always so strong," canon Chat Blanc should be impossible.

I like all the alternates you mentioned, but if you wanna get really simple about it, you only need to make one change to canon: keep Ladybug out of the confrontation. Have Nathalie see Adrien transform, immediately tell Gabe, and Gabe immediately call Adrien inside. Chat Blanc then happens exactly like it did in canon, just without Ladybug by Chat Noir's side. Adrien would still try to resist, but without his Lady, he can't and so he accidentally destroys the world instead. That's literally all you need to change from an overall story perspective.

Also, the fact that he didn’t obey his father instantly actually goes against him being controlled by the amok, so… yeah they don’t even have that excuse.

100% Ephemeral shows us what happens when the ring is used in a Chat Blanc scenario. Adrien doesn't even offer a token resistance. It's one of the major things that I point to when I say that the sentimonster thing was a retcon.

The sentimonster stuff isn't even an excuse in my book, though. If anything, it's another reason why the love square is doomed.

If you're seriously going to say that Adrien's status means that he will fight against Marinette if the wrong person gets his rings, then Adrien can never be with Marinette. She's the guardian. The risk factor is just way too high. They can only be together if they give up their roles. Frankly, none of the sentikids are fit to be heroes if they can be compromised like that. Felix has shown us that the rings can be stolen with ease.

Chat Blanc has other, lesser issues for sure, but the only narrative-destroying one is the killing Marinette thing.

Do you think Chat Blanc really is that big of a LS killer, or do you think that people who already didnt like the ship just cling on as proof that is a bad ship?

I can’t speak for others but it’s what hit every pet peeve of mine regarding the ship

[tallwriter]

You're absolutely right, I don't know why more fans don't see it that way.

This thoughts still cooking, so it might not make sense, but I think Thomas (Tomas?) Astruc is a very good case study on how being too attached to your own ideas can hinder your story telling.

I don't mean this in a "Thomas's original idea for the series was bad", but rather that he seems so attached to this concept that he can't stand other people having a differing view from him.

Chloe's the titular example here. Some people thought she deserved a redemption arc, and instead of just saying "nah, I don't think so" and continuing to write her the same way he had been, he had to prove them wrong, prove that his idea was the only correct one, and so turned her into the spawn of Satan and let her rule over Paris for some reason.

Instead of making Marinette less stalker-y, he wrote an entire episode poorly justifying it. And, imao, somewhat diminishing what PTSD actually is and does to people.

I'm not saying he has to make any change (though I think making Marinette less stalker-y would be a good change), but instead of 1.) sticking to his resolve or 2.) taking the criticism, he clung dearly onto this perception of his characters and his writing suffered because of how much he had to twist things to "prove" that his original assertions were right. And also that everyone who disagreed with him was wrong and didn't understand

idk if that makes sense, but the concepts been lingering in my head recently

It makes perfect sense! I've had similar thoughts. It's hard to say for sure, but Miraculous may be a case study in "kill your darlings". I'm not deep into the behind-the-scenes lore and I was not here in the early fandom, but I do know that, at some point, a much darker version of the show was pitched. That's why these exist (image source):

[Image description: two sketches styled like comic book covers. Both have the title "The Mini Menace Ladybug". The left cover shows Marinette's silhouette in a doorway. The door's glass and the glass of a nearby window are broken. In the foreground lies a hand holding a ladybug charm. The hand is limp and surrounded by blood, implying that someone is injured or dead. The right cover is Ladybug doing a spinning kick while looking angry.]

We also have this evidence of the darker original concept:

Jeremy Zag then proposed another project... which he was unable to sell to broadcasters... the project was called "Ladybug". No one was interested, as the project was aimed more at an adult audience... Sébastien had to make sure that the project could be broadcast on Disney and TF1.... Thomas wanted to make a series for adults, but at the time, it was very complicated to make a cartoon for adults. What's more, they didn't have enough money to take on such a project. Sébastien finally agreed, but there were some changes to be made, which Thomas accepted... In the end, Thomas Astruc's entire project was discarded, leaving only the love story between the two heroes and the city of Paris, where the story was to take place.

I've been aware of this darker origin story for a while due to Tumblr and, because of this knowledge, I have often had the thought, "are the writers trying to sneak elements from this darker version into canon?" Because that's the most likely explanation for what's going on here.

If I'm right, then I think that was a terrible move on their parts. They needed to let go of the story that they couldn't sell and embrace the story that they're being allowed to tell. It's why "kill you darlings" is such good advice. Many good stories have been ruined by writers clinging to an idea that ultimately doesn't work for some reason.

It's why the sitcom How I Met Your Mother has such a universally hated ending. The show was originally supposed to go for two seasons and so they wrote an ending that would fit the second season. The show ended up running for nine seasons and, by then, the ending didn't fit, but the writers kept it and left everyone with a bad taste in their mouths, which is not what any writer wants. That's why you have to do what's best for the story even if it means abandoning something that you really love.

This early version of canon may also be why the writers are so obsessed with Marinette. My understanding is that this concept had her mainly acting as a solo hero and, oh look! What is one of canon's biggest problems? Marinette being treated like a solo hero even though she has a partner and, later on, a team!

Not saying that this theory has to be true, just saying that it would explain some things. And if they're poisoning canon by trying to include elements from their darker original? Then it makes sense to assume that they're also doing it for smaller stuff. Like I'm pretty sure I've read that the head writer wanted Chat Blanc to be a lot darker originally, but no one would green light it, so we got an incredibly lackluster episode that spat in the face of the genres Miraculous' is trying to be part of while also falling to have the sort of impact we'd expect from an episode like that. It's a good example of a darling that really should have been killed. It just doesn't fit.

(Totally unrelated sidenote, but is your blog name from Tangled? Because that's what I immediately thought of and it made me smile!)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I am an active love square shipper (not in canon anymore, but I actively write the couple) and Chat Blanc was the worst thing that you could possibly do for a power of love story or really any story where love is supposed to win in some way.

The issue is not that Adrien was akumatized. The issue is that they let the male romantic lead look his established girlfriend in the eye and kill her. His love for her was not strong enough to beat his fear of his father. In this type of show, that means that she's not his "true love" or whatever name you want to give the trope.

This is made even worse by the fact that other people can use their positive emotions to free themselves from akumas.

Nino's love for Alya? Strong enough to break free.

Alya's love for Marinette? Strong enough to break free.

Lila's love her herself? Strong enough to break free.

Marinette's love for Chat Noir? Strong enough to outright resist an akuma even though he just broke her heart!

Adrien's love for Marinette? Don't be absurd, why in the world would that be strong enough to let him win in his darkest hour when all hope seems lost? Do you think that we're telling a fairy tale love story here or something? It's not like we had an episode where we explicitly said

Only love can conquer hate! -Rose and Adrien, Dark Cupid

or

Hate doesn't conquer all. Love does! -Ladybug, Dark Cupid

There are ways to fix this and still let Chat Blanc happen, but the way it's played in canon does come across as a massive, neon sign that the love square is not a strong relationship and the writing has not done anything to fix that issue. They've made it less and less healthy with each new season.

Do you think Chat Blanc really is that big of a LS killer, or do you think that people who already didnt like the ship just cling on as proof that is a bad ship?

I can’t speak for others but it’s what hit every pet peeve of mine regarding the ship