#after barely communicating at all at the end of s4?

[chirpsythismorning]

Idk what’s worse, the fact that there are milkvans out there that believe El commissioned Will’s painting, or that a majority of milkvans believe she didn’t, but still think everything Will said to Mike in the van scene applies to how El feels about Mike as well. And honestly, how could they not? Mike looked very happy and emotional hearing Will's words in the van... no shit they're hoping that's how El feels.

But El never called Mike the heart. El never said she needed Mike and always will. Those words coming from Will's feelings for Mike, then being used to inspire Mike to give his monologue to El, was disingenuous bc it was never El’s feelings being responded to in the first place.

‘It only works if it comes from you’

That’s the whole problem. It didn’t work bc it was coming from Will, not El.

IF everything Will said applied to El, why not have it come from her?

No, but seriously??

Is s5 just going to open up to El apologizing to Mike for ignoring him after the monologue, followed by her just repeating everything Will said with her own twist and Mike being like cool!! That works for me!

The problem with making the narrative choice to instead focus on Will's feelings at the forefront, only to follow it up with El's identical feelings, does nothing but make the whole thing fall flat.

Instead of seeing this main couple voice their love for each other themselves, I gotta have her brother do it for her?? And only then after he does it, can I see her do it in like a 2.0 version of sorts????

So many milkvans are willing to acknowledge that Mike and El’s dynamic throughout the series is riddled frivolous conflict more than anything, with little to no time dedicated to showing the development that actually matters. They say they wish the show spent more time with them actually face to face acknowledging how they both feel verbally without the constant cloud of some other third party interfering, causing them to have issues. They say that this time though, they think the Duffers will magically pull through for them and go from what they believe is shitty writing to ‘good’ writing, based in terms of how they'll handle Mike and El's relationship in s5...

But that's not realistic on any front, milkvan, byler or otherwise.

And that's a big part of the problem, bc they know the pacing has not been great for them, and they NEED the show to just give them Mike and El so they can be happy, but that's not how you build up suspense for a love story. And dragging out Mike and El any more, would just be a repeat of every other season before. They reached their peak and so they can only down from here. That's kind of the whole point.

One thing to note is that the Duffers always create conflict for the incompatible couple early in a season, so that the audience doesn’t feel too uncomfortable with the idea of considering the other option that’s at the forefront for the rest of the season.

This will ESPECIALLY be the case for byler, bc Will already has home wrecker allegations as it is. And it's also a highly controversial queer ship, and so people are going to be making claims left and right that it’s wrong bc of xyz.

They just wont be able to have byler scenes loaded with romantic tension all season long, more than any other season, and with the story making it more obvious they want us to root for them, while also having Mike and El still be together. And it's simply bc the reality is the Duffers have a record of doing the complete opposite of that.

This is also endgame territory, so there is a serious pressure on the writers part to get their audience to be closer to rooting for byler than denying it even being possible. Meaning they NEED the audience to be watching their first kiss and, for better or worse, be thinking, FINALLY just get it over with already!

Also what's El's supposed to be up to while this is happening? Are we assuming she's just stringing along waiting for Mike to get his shit together? Like Jesus!

El has every right to say her piece and get that shit over with, by episode 1 or 2 at the latest. She could be a focused on Max and her family and friends, which if you'll note also includes Mike and Will, but instead this time without the pressure of her having to hope that something will turn around and suddenly Mike will decide he finally loves her... She doesn't deserve that.

Byler is clearly the route they are taking. If that is the plan, it's time to make this separation so that the audience is finally confronted with viewing Mike and El without the constant rose tinted love at first sight goggles, and instead give them a chance to be their authentic selves.

And I think El, being a character that could barely speak in s1, that her not getting her own voice in this situation is fucking serious. El not being able to say those words to Mike herself, like there's a reason for that. And so when she finally does get to say how she feels, there isn't going to be any room for subtext or misunderstanding, not on the audiences part nor Mike's. El has always been pretty clear about what she wants and I think that will apply in s5 now more than ever.

[outmakingmoonshine]

Punch Blanch Freeze Fry

I think punch, blanch, freeze and fry are the underlying themes of season 1-4 and the beef (the meat/the substance/the real connection) will be the underlying theme of a possible season 5.

For context in this scene in 1x01 Ebra, who represents an older version of Carmy, keeps asking Carmy for the beef before he can do anything else. Carmy either ignores him or tries to divert him to do other tasks first. Carmy tells/asks Ebra if he can punch 'em, blanch 'em, freeze 'em and fry 'em before the beef.

Seeing as 3 of these words are specifically talking about preparing food, I googled extensively what punch means in terms of cooking and found nothing and you wouldn't literally punch a raw potato or onion, if anything that would come after the blanching. So it's not referring to a food preparation method like the other 3 so it can only mean literal or metaphorical punching.

S1 - Punch

Coincidentally Carmy was literally punched in 1x01

There were multiple metaphorical gut punches in S1 too. In the first few episodes, most of the season really, he was taking metaphorical/verbal punches from everybody at The Beef. Meeting Syd was a less negative, shock to his system kind of gut punch. We saw him being psychologically beaten down by Chef David in 1x02, being mistaken for Micheal in 1x04, the review & Syd leaving in 1x07, finding out Mikey left him a letter in 1x08, then reading the letter and Syd coming back. Tbh there are gut punches for Carmy every season but early S1 was heavy on the theme of him basically being everyone's punching bag.

S2 - Blanch

Carmy was in "hot water" with Syd, their chemistry was heating up and things were getting "steamy" between them at the start of S2

He was plunged into cold, icy water when he ran into Claire, hence all the heavily blue filtered scenes since then. But the cooling process in blanching isn't meant to last for an extended period of time, it's only supposed to be seconds, much quicker than the cooking process itself.

Carmy entertained/endured Claire (the ice cold water) for awhile in the supermarket, then he tried to get out of the ice water almost immediately by giving her a fake number but she (and Neil Fak) kept him submerged. There's also the blue scenes of S2 that got gradually darker the more time Carmy spent with Claire and the implication/imagery of him drowning and being suffocated by her at the end of their very dark blue sex scene.

Also the fire suppression was in S2! "Fire suppression" is basically what the process of blanching is; cooling down/regulating heat. But the cooling isn't instant, there's still residual heat and "steam" as the cooling process is happening:

And even after the "successful" fire suppression in 2x08 the heat was still there:

Blanching isn't supposed to make food frozen or even cold necessarily, it's just meant to cool it enough to stop the cooking process so there should still be some warmth left.

But Carmy spent way too long in the ice water with Claire and ended up too cold or frozen by the end of S2.

S3 - Freeze

Self explanatory. The theme of S3 was Carmy still being stuck in the freezer, frozen and unable to get himself out of the ice. He can't escape the ice cold water (his relationship with Claire) even in his thoughts, he's submerged and trapped in it. There was barely any heat left between Sydcarmy even though Carmy tried to keep the fire going. Carmy was cold and rigid (like ice) for most of S3.

3 out of 4 line up almost perfectly with the themes of each season and if this theory is correct then the theme of S4 will be frying, which means heat, which means the fire between Carmy and Syd is going to ramp up/become evident again somehow. Probably through frustration with each other as they continue to not communicate properly. Mostly I think Carmy's just gonna be getting cooked. By Claire, by Syd, by Richie, maybe even Nat too.

We kind of saw Carmy take a metaphorical step out of the freezer in 3x10 after confronting Chef David and speaking to Chef Terry (I think it started in 3x09 when he asked Syd to go to Ever tbh, he definitely let himself feel some heat for a second there). So in 4x01/4x02 he's probably going to be dropped straight into the frying pan having to deal with the fallout of his actions towards everyone during S3.

If you think about what happens to frozen food when you put it straight into very hot oil; the pretty volatile reaction when the ice hits the hot oil, the splaterring and spitting oil that will burn if you're too close, the loud noises, the steam that gets released as the temperature drastically changes, the hardening of the outer layer etc (which I hope means Carmy grows a thicker skin and is able to finally tell Claire and the Faks no), I'm guessing that process is along the lines of how things will play out in S4. Similar to how the blanching process played out in S2.

If there's a season 5 I think the theme will be beef/substance/real connection, if not it will be at the end of S4 but I definitely think it's coming. At some point we're going back to the beef/the substance/ the real connections that the show was built on in S1.

[multifandoms27-blog]

Reiner Braun Relationship HC's 2

• ───────────────── •

Content: Post-Marley Reiner Braun x GN! Reader

Warnings: Simpage (from me), mentions of kidnapping, mentions of Marco, Zeke. Also slight suggestiveness at the end, but nothing explicit.

Notes: No S4 spoilers, even though this takes place in Marley. Anime watchers can read this 👍

• ───────────────── •

Okay so, a lot of this is going to be based off an rp between me and a friend you know who you are but I feel it's close enough to his character in S4, so bare with me

Reiner took you with him to Marley by force so now you're kinda stuck with him

If you can forgive him after the whole Marco/traitor thing, I would then this will be no problem for you

He's super serious in government meetings and anything pertaining to Titans and Paradis, but when with you he's anything but

Sometimes he needs to be held and told he's okay, sometimes he wants to take you out for a walk, sometimes he just needs your presence with him but don't talk to him...it depends

I feel like he would tell you what's going on within the government and what's happened over at Paradis, even though he's not supposed to and you both could be killed for it

He only does that so you're in the loop and are safe. Although, since you'd be from Paradis, I doubt the government wouldn't make good use of you.

Reiner would do anything to make sure they wouldn't send you back over to Paradis, or make you fight again. Obviously this can only extend so far, unless you gain the favor of Zeke. But that's a discussion for another day.

Reiner would still like some PDA, or just being semi clingy in general, as you're one of his only lights of happiness. But he wants the PDA to be restricted to hand holding in front of Gabi and the others.

He's going to lean on you a lot more in Marley than he ever did in Paradis, and it might be a little overwhelming, maybe annoying, but he's a broken man and is just trying to make you happy while also trying to be happy himself.

He can get jealous pretty easily - he's always worried about losing you. So when he sees you with Zeke once you've gained his favor, he's going to start comparing himself and the older man. He's going to lash out at you and Zeke for it, but will really only beg for forgiveness from you. Please show him the wonderful ways of communicating problems.

When you're alone and you grab his tits chest, he might give you a confused look before letting you continue to mess with him. He doesn't understand your fixation with his chest, but if it makes you happy, they're all yours.

Reiner please give me a chance I beg of you

• ───────────────── •

Here is my Masterlist in case you want to request, or look for more of your favorite character!

[thedarkmongoose]

SPOILERS: i have mixed feelings about the bear s3 but knowing that s3 & s4 were written/filmed at the same time makes sense. s4 will prob answer s3's q's. (A LOT was left open-ended) usually i love that, but it felt like the show lost itself in certain places, esp the self-indulgent finale. all stories are indulgent to some degree, but too much decadence rarely leaves room for substance.

and i get why they tried to do the chef's table thing, but other than andrea, syd, and luca, everyone else's acting was disjointed and trite. but i loved ep 1; it was an ethereal, artsy, meditative piece (peace) that was necessary after the chaotic s2 finale. however, as a big fan of the show, it was hard for me to finish the eps.

the standout in s3 FOR SURE was tina's ep - directed by ayo. glad we got her backstory. personally i liked her anxiety-inducing job hunt bc it's really like that irl, esp for older woc. the sobbing while eating a free sandwich was relatable, and the mikey convo was super impactful. but as much as i loved the ep, it still felt superficial compared to s2 'forks' (richie) or 'honeydew' (marcus). we never see her son again either; all we get is tina yelling at him to quiet down.

then there was marcus's mother's funeral which seemed like it was going to be more central to the plot than it was. i wish we got more. and claire is still one of the most underwritten characters EVER. nothing about her or the mis en scène really sells it that she's a doctor lol. and the scene with the faks trying to apologize on carmy's behalf was beyond cringe. i like matty matheson - i have his cookbook, but there was entirely too many faks in s3.

and let's be real: where was ebra & sweeps? ebra has such an interesting story that i'm HOPING we get to see in s4. sweeps too - he tried out for the chicago cubs! but on a positive note, i loved the chemistry between syd/luca. it was v sweet and organic. wonder if they'll be a thing in s4 since luca is carmy's foil. too bad marcus was barely in s3, tho the hug between him & luca at the party was cute. syd's meltdown mirroring carmy's in s2 was also a nice touch.

idk how to feel about sugar's labor scene. most praise it, but it didn't hit the same for me. donna's over-acting (the whole series) is really distracting and i can't take her seriously. ik she's supposed to be mentally unwell, but it borders on cartoonish. the hospital moment was heartwarming, but again, artificially. and pete was so underwritten too, just so they could have that mom moment. i liked the scene with him and syd tho. it felt authentically awkward.

i also understand what they were trying to do with the finale, but it was a flop for me. the scene with andrea/carmy staring out into the chicago night was introspective and beautiful, but the msg doesn't hit all the way bc we have a group of wealthy celeb chefs saying it's okay to stop while you're ahead and enjoy life while you can. every second counts. unfortunately for those who are not celeb chefs, it's not that easy to simply "enjoy life."

on one hand, i agree that food is life and restaurants have been community "third places" forever (essential to life itself; historically, like when revolutionaries would gather at pubs or cafes). however, do i think that fine dining and the "art" that comes with it is necessary? no. if there were more spots like the original beef/bear in the world tho, that would be a good thing.

[theerurishipper]

One thing that just isn't letting me go is that even all of season 5 goes out of its way to proof over and over again that Maribug in s4 having prioritized her partnership with Alya and making herself a team of 17 miraculous holders over Ladynoir was the wrong way to go.

Season 5 shows that, actually NO, Ladybug does NOT constantly need all kinds of other miraculous holders, Ladynoir as a PARTNERSHIP is more than enough to even go up against akumas with extra miraculous powers.

Ladybug doesn't need Rena secretly hidden somewhere as her actual main partner, she needed Chat.

The Resistance is almost utterly useless in s5 if it wasn't for Ladynoir getting seperated again in "Kwamis choice" and "Representation" (they even set LB and CN on the wrong path in "Illusion")

It's crazy how s4 was out here DEMANDING that Maribug is doing not a single little thing wrong by constantly ditching Chat Noir on the battle field to execute her actual plans with almost always unnecessary temp heros, while barely communicating her plans with him or just not spearing him any thoughts even when he's left behind on the battle field to take whatever he's being put through emotionally and physically while trying to survive all alone, so Ladybug herself can leave safe and sound and return and win looking cool with others.

And now the Resistance barely had any use in s5 either (for all it is, Chloé's akuma in Kwamis choice wasn't even important). What did Maribug waste all that time on the oh so necessary team for when "Recreation" couldn't make it any more obvious that all Ladybug ever needed was CHAT NOIR?

She was given the Resistance and every other hero they met around the world in exchange for Adrichat and they all were beyond fucking pointless. Nothing but visual spectacle with no actual purpose. And then of course Marinette becoming Bug Noire, loosing bc she was all alone and tried to connect with Gabriel to solve all this, bc - you guessed it - she didn't had her partner Chat Noir by her side.

It's stuff like this that makes season 4 even worse bc that season refuses to portray Maribug as anything but 100% justified and correct for doing EVERYTHING on Chat Noir's expense and yet the end result of season 5 still keeps it consistent that she did it all wrong. The just just refuses to own in bc Maribug being wrong is something that OPTIONAL for the viewers to ackowledge.

Especially "Penalteam" after "Kuro Neko" is the worst offender in this. Yes, that episode WAS about teamwork, but looking at it now it's so fucking obvious that it should have been about LADYNOIR healing and not being yet another Chat Noir torture porn episode so Ladybug can build an unnecessary team of 17 miraculous holders while letting Akuma Chloé have her way bc Marinette agreed to play entirely by her rules to use this opportunity to cement how "amazingly justified" she is for prioritizing the unnecessary team over Chat and actual effectiveness. Making it so much harder for herself than necessary and then using that as an excuse too.

Cause Adrien in Penalteam suddenly not knowing how to play soccer wasn't a retcon from "Furious Fu", it's was deliberately done to showcase how unbelievably insecure Chat was by the by Ladybug's side. In Furious Fu Adrien was still confident in their dynamic, so even if he didn't know all the rules in theory he still did very well by sheer instinct.

But all that was gone by Penalteam bc everything was always blamed on Chat and Ladybug settled the conflict in Kuro Neko by making sure Chat understands that HE is the problem in all of this, SHE has never done ANYTHING wrong, and he should in fact be grateful that she likes him so much that she even wants him back.

Meaning Adrien in Penalteam knew he wasn't perfect in soccer and immediately told Ladybug to "get the REAL team" bc he learned as CatWalker that even at his most perfect he wasn't good enough for her so nothing could ever justify risking inconveniencing Ladybug by having only him as partner when he might make a mistake.

The only true job Ladybug had in Penalteam regarding team-building was turning around to Chat, when he said that he doesn't know a thing about soccer and she should get the REAL team, and for ONCE give him support in return. Telling him to believe in himself and his abilites cause, NO, she KNOWS for a fact that he can play soccer, they already played it together and he did very well back then too.

THAT was the team-building that should have happened in that episode, but looking at Marinette shocked face in that moment she already forgot that she ever played soccer with Chat in the first place and 100% agreed with him taht they aren't the real team anymore the moment he needs any kind of help.

This episode also cemented it for the rest of most of the show's narrative from here that most Ladybug does is speaking big fancy words about how much Chat seemingly means to her but the moment he needs more than pretty words from her he has to go back to sucking it up and getting over it and better by himself (meaning becoming PERFECT for her in s5) bc Ladybug doesn't back her words up with actions bc that goes too far for her.

See her hyping them up in this episode and the moment Chat tells her of his insecurities it's immediately over with "partnership". Her CLAIMING that she's the epitome of a supportive and loving partner doesn't mean she actually is. She leaves him to pain and humiliation the moment he needs more than nothing.

So her then proceeding to once again abandone Chat on the battle field so akuma Chloé can emotionally and physically torment him - remember how badly Chloé bullied Marinette, one would think she wouldn't want Chat to accept that he deserves this kind of treatment for owing up to a weakness. But hey, Marinette seemingly concidered this unparalleled kindness he should THANK her for -

Getting the whole unnecessary team and helping THEM which meant leaving Chat all by himself who just told her he doesn't know how to play soccer, leaving him to humiliate himself further on a grand scale while also not being able to properly participate in the team building bc LB immediately forgot about what Chat said the very moment he told her and isn't paying attention to him either because proofing herself superior in her pissing contest with Chloé was more important.

It's especially interesting how right immediately once Chat - the easy bullying target - gets punished by Chloé for calling her out for expanding the length of time the match goes on just because SHE lost (by taking him out by unfairly tricking him and attacking him with several of her clones) only THEN does Marinette immediately summon her lucky charm to actually make a team plan against Chloé, using the powers and teammates in a way that actually makes sense.

So apparently she genuinely had only waited for Chat to be taken out to do her job. Cause she didn't wanted to be "in the wrong" for not having him use his powers in her plan or ask anything of him he might not be good at bc thats not useful to her so she rather waited for Chat to do something himself that gets him taken out so he blames himself and not her.

And the only thing to "make up for that" was Ladybug still drawing him on the whiteboard among herself and the other 9 holders to actually do their job, so she can pad herself on the back for "having done her best to include him"

Man, that episode is beyond aggravating bc all she had to do was turn to him when he told her he doesn't know how to play soccer and for her to get the REAL TEAM and for once do her job as his friend, "partner", leader and guardian by giving him emotional support and help him believe in himself and his abilites she should KNOW he has.

But no, we couldn't have that.

Because Maribug couldn't be asked to take an ounce of proper accountability for her bad treatment of Chat Noir so he had to build his entire confidence up DESPITE of her and not thanks to her, while almost all Marinette does even by the end of season 5 is throwing around big words of how much she loves him and how she's treating him with such unparalleled kindness, generosity and unconditional care and support

While even in season 5 her actions barely back that up. It's just Chat Noir having stopped asking the most basic things of her, meaning she is barely ever challenged to proof taht she actually meant that she feels sorry. And in most moments where she COULD have shown an improvement from s4 she mostly didn't do it bc she needs an invitation and 7 essays to convince her to HELP HIM.

Tbf I'm pretty sure that Adrien not knowing how to play soccer was a retcon (within the same season lmao) to justify Ladybug having to get the team together so that we could get the whole gang introduced. But if we were looking for an in-universe explanation, I think your interpretation of the scene is very interesting.

And I agree with your other points too. The show loves to pretend that Ladybug doesn't need to support her partner and that if anything happens between them it's actually his fault and she shouldn't be expected to apologize for anything or fix anything. And I haven't actually watched Penalteam in a while, so I won't speak about that. But what you've said seems to be what I'd expect from this show, so I'll just assume you're right about this like you are about the rest of it.

But I will say though:

It's especially interesting how right immediately once Chat - the easy bullying target - gets punished by Chloé for calling her out for expanding the length of time the match goes on just because SHE lost (by taking him out by unfairly tricking him and attacking him with several of her clones) only THEN does Marinette immediately summon her lucky charm to actually make a team plan against Chloé, using the powers and teammates in a way that actually makes sense. So apparently she genuinely had only waited for Chat to be taken out to do her job. Cause she didn't wanted to be "in the wrong" for not having him use his powers in her plan or ask anything of him he might not be good at bc thats not useful to her so she rather waited for Chat to do something himself that gets him taken out so he blames himself and not her.

I don't think this part is fair. From the little I remember, I think she just used her Lucky Charm after Chat Noir got caught because she realized they needed to win now. I don't think reading an ulterior motive into that is really supported. She does fail to provide him any kind of support, but this particular criticism is too harsh, I feel.

But yeah, you're right. I did feel that Penalteam tried to, idk, nerf Chat Noir so that the existence of the other holders could be justified. And they frame this as 100% a good thing in the season and show us that Ladybug doesn't need Chat Noir, she can call on her team and even use both Miraculous herself. And then they have her lose, but we're supposed to pretend it's a win, so like, what are we supposed to believe? This show went off the rails lmao.

Thank you for your ask!

[hexisssssssss]

What’s a twdg fanfic(s) that you really want to exist but don’t particularly want to write?

At the moment i have a few specific ideas. With two of them of course being Lilly centric (i heart my smoking hot wife 🫶). Also bare with me if theres like horrible grammar or anything is confusing, i got like 3 hours of sleep lol.

Starting with the Lilly ones, I really want to see a fic about what happened to her after she took the RV that lead her to the delta. Which im sure has been done before, but there was a few specific ideas i’d love to see. Starting at a pov of her alone in the RV while the others deal with the train, just to show the thought process that led to her stealing the RV. And i feel that she would end up tangled with a group or community a lot like Carver’s, or the 400 days group that Becca and Shel are in. And at some point that group has a confrontation with the Delta, maybe similar to Ericsons where they are looking for people to take as soldiers. And Lilly see’s some opportunity for some level of greater purpose or control/command and betrays her new found group to join the Delta. Some smaller details i’d also like to see is a moment where she makes some sort of small memorial or grave for Larry. And when she is alone in the RV just driving i like the idea of her reflecting on the spiral she had after Larry died and the action she ended up taking and feeling some guilt, but in the end doubling down. And moments like that to see where her head was at to lead to her personality change in s4.

The idea has been floating in my head for a while but at the moment i just don’t feel like starting it.

The other Lilly idea is basically a s4 rewrite but from her POV. I am not sure if this exists because i have not gone looking specifically. Starting probably a bit before s4 just to give some insight to what the delta may look like (which is the part i would find most interesting to see but also what makes me not really want to write it at the moment because it seems a bit of a daunting task to execute well.). Then having her and her group set off on the boat for Ericsons. For a specific cannon timeline i think it would work best if Lilly gets away alive in the end. I see it working as a better emotionally satisfying ending than if it just ended abruptly cause she gets shot like 50 times by a toddler lol.

I also think it would be neat to see an AU where Minerva actually ends up helping the Ericsons kids. And later ends up back at the school with them. With Louis being the one captured, because i have this idea in my mind of his “talking too much” maybe being him urging Minnie to help them and reminding her of Tenn. And when she shows a bit of a reaction/seems to falter and consider helping them, whoever is with her (probably Lilly) decides he needs to be punished/stopped and also in turn try and “scare Minnie straight”. But what Louis has said mixed with seeing Violet again, will still lead her to aid them. So the whole bridge scene will be avoided and both Vi and Tenn will be alive. AJ and Clem still get separated from everyone else and she still ends up without a chunk of her leg later. The bulk of the fic would be her adjusting to being back at Ericsons again. I have some ideas for plot lines/events:

- Trying to rebuild a friendship with Vi

- A longer Tenn reunion arc and her trying to be a sister to him again, with difficulty due to her literally fucking killing their sister before

- Feeling guilt over Louis’s injury and trying to make it up to him, leading to a friendship there

- Generally having to unpack/confront all that happened to her and that she did and get over the brainwashing

- Recovering from an injury she sustained while helping Vi with the bomb

- And these are just small things i feel would be interesting: a few interactions with a “overprotective/not jealous but angry at what she did to vi” clem and this fic would follow the violentine cannon. And AJ interactions because i feel like theres an interesting opportunity for a dynamic there or lesson for aj??? Idk lol

Would absolutely love to write that but i just think the idea is too all over the place atm and not fleshed out enough that i could really do much with it lol

And this last one is incredibly vauge lol. But i’ve seen a couple fics for mostly stuff other than twdg where it’s like based off/taking inspo from a song. And i think it would be cool asf to see that with Violentine/Clouis with like an Adrianne Lenker or Big Theif song.

[strxnger-things]

Show, don’t tell: Mike and El are not seeing eye-to-eye in S4

I’ve seen many posts about this before, but I just wanted to add my own two cents. 

On my most recent rewatch of S4, it just seemed so obvious that Mike and El are not seeing eye-to-eye with each other. 

Beyond the narrative choices made, the cinematography alone shows it to the audience in such a literal way that I can’t believe it wasn’t an intentional choice.

(Also, this reading of their scenes is irregardless of the opinion of Mike’s sexuality. Even if Mike were straight (he’s not), S4 depicts a couple who are not communicating honestly, and desperately pretending to the other that everything is okay. This season shows the audience that Mike and El are no longer compatible... if they ever were.) 

As a piece of evidence all on its own, I think it’d be easy enough to debunk Mike wearing his sunglasses as having any sort of hidden meaning: he’s on vacation, it was probably really sunny outside, so it makes sense that he put his sunglasses on, right? As a costume choice, it also completes the wacky, adorable, ‘I’m-trying-hard-to-fit-in’ vibe he has going, because he clearly thinks this is how people dress in California. 

However, not only is this not a standalone piece of evidence, it’s also curious to consider that this is the only time throughout the entire season that Mike and El share an inarguably romantic interaction, when they kiss. 

When Mike removes his sunglasses, we only get about 2-3 seconds of what appears to be open, honest interaction between them:

... before El notices the “From, Mike” on the bouquet of flowers. Later, the audience learns that El’s unhappiness with the relationship has been growing for some time, because Mike won’t tell her he loves her - even more mysteriously, he’s never even written “Love, Mike” on any of his letters he sent her. 

With both Mike and El continuing to pretend that all is fine between them, they continue to interact in a strange, phony way that feels over-the-top and false. It sort of feels like we’re watching an imitation of a romance movie airport reunion, rather than seeing any genuine emotion from both of these characters we’ve come to know (the only genuine moment we see is a glimpse of El’s disappointment and weariness when she initially reads ‘From, Mike’ again.) 

More under the cut ‘cos this is probably going to be pretty long. 

As mentioned in this post (watch the video!) Mike just... isn’t really looking at El at any point throughout the remainder of this scene. Instead, there are a lot of quick, furtive glances in her vague direction (and arguably, at Will) that indicate he’s very distracted.  Again, Mike and El are only shown making genuine eye contact for one very brief moment, right at the end of the scene when he kisses her on the forehead (and they’re still playing their Everything Is Fine And We’re So Happy game). 

Next we see Mike and El continuing their strange charade at the roller rink, and still, they’re barely making any eye contact. Not whilst on the rink, not when fetching their skates, not when they’re sat at the table. It’s all quick, emotionless, detached looks, like there’s some weird disconnect between them. 

After El’s lies of the past six months come to light, the charade of the happy couple is finally broken. After this, the camera deliberately shows Mike and El’s mutual refusal to make eye contact with the other. There’s no point in pretending anymore: things are not okay between them. 

At the beginning of the following scene, El’s back is turned. When she finally turns to face Mike so they can look each other in the eye, she’s now standing over him. There’s a visual imbalance; they’re not on the same level (literally and figuratively). 

When we finally get to see genuine eye contact between Mike and El, it’s during a scene that is directly juxtaposed with one between Mike and Will. The difference between the two scenes is stark, as has been pointed out plenty of times (special shoutout to “You never say it / I say it” and “I didn’t say it / You didn’t have to”). 

Beyond the obvious narrative choices (a fight and break up / an apology and reconciliation), we also see how Will initially has his back turned to Mike, but keeps turning to make prolonged eye contact with him. Eventually, he turns his body towards Mike, remaining at a similar eye level.

It’s this deliberate positioning that creates the emotional tension in Mike and Will’s scene: they’re eye-to-eye, on the same level, their eye contact uninterrupted for several long moments. They’re in sync with each other. They’re connected.  (Again, this reading is irregardless of Mike’s sexuality or any preferred ship. I’m just reading what the cinematography and direction is putting down. At this point in the show’s timeline, Mike and Will’s ten year long friendship is blatantly shown as the more compatible bond in comparison to Mike and El’s tumultuous and uncertain relationship.) 

After El and Mike’s fight, El is arrested. Whilst there are honest emotions displayed during the scene where she’s taken away in the police van, there’s still a visual imbalance. Mike stands at the window with the promise to fix the situation, whilst El sits detatched and weary once again, her eye contact hesitant. As the police van retreats, we see the distance physically grow between them. (I personally believe that moment was symbolic of El finally letting go of Mike in a romantic sense, but that’s not what this post is about).  The most genuine shot we get of Mike and El in this entire season is this reunion in the desert: 

In this moment, however brief, Mike and El are on the same page. The relief and love shared between the two is palpable. It’s a deliberate close up shot (just as deliberate as the blocking of Will stood on his marker in the background, but again, that’s not what this post is about). Despite their relationship issues, it’s clear that they care deeply for each other, and Mike is obviously glad to see that El is still alive after learning she was being hunted by the government. 

We get one more visual clue/costume choice that, along with the rest of what I’ve talked about in this post, could be another indication that something is still preventing Mike and El from fully seeing eye-to-eye: 

This is probably my favorite moment between the two, simply because we get to see Mike acting... well, more like himself for the first (and only) time with El this season. He’s allowing himself to be goofy. He wants things to remain light-hearted. He wants to cheer her up, and make her laugh.  However, the air isn’t fully clear between them. Things remain unspoken, unresolved. El smiles fondly, but she knows that, after their fight, it’s finally time to speak openly and honestly with each other.  The cinematography shows that they’re finally on the same level, eye-to-eye, truly looking at the other...

... only, before we get to hear what El actually wanted to discuss with Mike, we’re all interrupted by Argyle.  ^ This is the peak of Mike and El’s mutual understanding this season. 

Because after that, we’re left with the infamous monologue scene. Here, we’re shown a visual imbalance yet again. Instead of an improvement, we’re going backwards. Not only are Mike and El now on different planes of existence, El cannot even see Mike as he gives her his monologue, let alone maintain eye contact. She has her eyes shut, completely blind, trapped, and unable to respond. 

The only reaction we see are her facial expressions, which alone as a storytelling device is a deliberately ambiguous choice of the writers and directors to use. They want the audience to keep guessing how El feels about everything Mike said until the end of this narrative arc (which we’ll get to in the final season). 

To finish up, we see El and Mike sitting apart in the van. There is no interaction between them. The scene in the hospital room briefly shows El placing her head on Mike’s chest, whilst he wraps an arm around her shoulder. They’re comforting each other in their grief, which indicates they’re on good terms - however, it’s important to remember that this entire scene is more about Max’s death than anything else.  We learn through Mike and Will’s shared look that El has not opened up to anyone about restarting Max’s heart. 

We don’t get a single verbal interaction between Mike and El after the monologue, and instead we’re told that El is keeping her distance (“Did she... talk to you at all? / Not much. I mean, a little.”) Again, this is clearly a deliberate choice to keep the audience hooked until the next season. This storyline is not over. It’s one of many cliffhangers written into the show so that we all tune in to Season 5 to see what happens next.  If we pay attention to El’s behavior in the cabin at the end of the season, it’s obvious that she’s displeased with Mike and/or Will. It’s up to us as an audience to speculate why that could be, and try to fill in the gaps.  Bonus last shot:

TL;DR: M*leven is bones

[aprillikesthings]

I lead part of EfM thing today (see earlier posts) and it went well ahhhhh thank God

and I've made my lunches for the next week!

and I'm munching on a salad

and all day I was looking forward to this, the moment I can (re)watch MORE SHE-RA

I've barely worked on my longer fic this weekend (other than copy/pasting a bunch of things Nate said after the show ended into the notes section of the doc) and tbh rewatching the ACTUAL SHOW is hella distracting bc with twenty eps left we're going to start getting into more of the really high-stakes stuff

Also, true story: I originally watched, like, the second half of season 4 and all of season 5 in two days of marathoning with Daci. So quite frankly? The last, like, third of the show is just kind of a blur to me now.

SO LET'S GO

s4 ep7 Mer-Mysteries

A mission in Dryl went badly, they've figured out someone's telling the Horde what they're doing, they're not tracking Adora because she wasn't even there--

YES

plz enjoy Sea Hawk's faces

Bow's sudden nervousness reminds me of when I was in line at the TSA in Dulles airport and was weirdly nervous. I had no reason to be nervous. AND YET. I'm usually totally fine at TSA? But the people at Dulles were scary!!!

(I was way less nervous coming back from Iceland, despite knowing I had Kinder Surprise Eggs in my suitcase. Which are actually illegal to bring into the USA. You can buy "Kinder Joy Eggs" in the USA, which do not have the toy, but the ones with the toys are against the law! Anyway I bought them for Daci. I was only nervous for a split second at customs in the USA bc they asked me what I'd brought home from Iceland and I was like...wool yarn. books. sweets (I'd also bought licorice and chocolate). But he just waved me through. WHEW.)

she's still big mad about this lolol

BUT she's right a spy IS the only thing that makes sense (but also the audience knows shit they don't)

Pearl?? A Pearl who knows too much?????

c'mon I had to

lolol they lampshaded the way lightning keeps striking when Mermista says something

to be fair she IS the most recent addition and the one they know the least

oh hey I also write everything in purple (or lavender) ink

lol

oh, shut up

well not this episode, specifically

LOLLLLL

honestly this is a lot like the DnD episode

so on the one hand, I know Flutterina is doing this to make them fight, but on the other hand Glimmer is right; on the other OTHER hand, I also would prefer a warning before being forced to see my abusive parent having free range of the castle I live in

BAHAHAHA I read Nate saying these two were interrupted on a date night, but also plz notice the colors of the flowers, it's literally most of the lesbian pride flag, they were SO unsubtle

The Ken from Plumeria is talking to the pastry chef from Dryl with the super cute outfit, and she looks bashful for a second after this screenshot; I am now shipping this and no one can stop me

speaking of ships (yes I know this isn't meant to be shippy lol)

a youtube video titled "it's raining on your window and you live in Bright Moon Castle ASMR for sleep 4 hours"

(....I'd listen to that)

(On a related note, mynoise dot net has a bunch of rain sounds on the website, and it also has an app--it's seriously the BEST website/app for ambient sounds because they're so adjustable and never repeat, and I just want everyone to know about them. The rain and ocean sounds are great on earbuds to cover up snoring so you can sleep!!! Worked better than my fancy earplugs while I was on the Camino and sleeping in all those hostels)

And back to the cartoon, where there's obviously suspicious shit happening because people seem to be in two places at once and their communications thing got shattered

oh so her name IS just The General

Flutterina (aka Double Trouble) has got to be like "oh my god wtf is up with this dude I cannot handle this bullshit"

Once again Glimmer proves that her and Catra are actually very, very alike

BUSTED

OOHHHHH they set up a trap I forgot, this is amazing

Adora: "we created a diversion :)" Glimmer: "You were a really good actress. For once."

pfft

Anyway Double Trouble is confessing the whole plan

:(

poor Mermista :(

there's a creepy-ass moment of seeing part of Horde Prime's face as he smiles, roll credits

[memes-saved-me]

Just want to talk about Nancy a little. I liked Nancy quite a lot in s1, but her character has barely developed since. S4 even backtracked a lot of her development. It makes no sense to me that she would start to reconsider her feelings about Steve since even back in s1, she actually wanted to be with Jonathan. That's where my issue lies their relationship, since I do see it as cheating in s2 since one big fight doesn't equal a breakup and they never properly established if they were or not. Add on that she went into the relationship because she couldn't wait any longer for Jonathan, though it's obvious that it was because she didn't want to be alone. Also don't get me wrong, Steve had his issues in the relationship as well, he stuck his head in the sand instead of dealing with everything, which meant he also ignored Nancy's feelings and trauma as well. However, everyone seems to ignore Jonathan's role in it all. In s1, he tells Nancy how she's making a mistake being with Steve, that he'sthe safe choice and how she'll just end up like her mother. He continued to flirt even after Steve and Nancy got back together, he also made the first move in s2. It takes two people to have sex, so why is it only Nancy that gets the criticism, because as far as he was aware Nancy and Steve were together, and she had been talking about going back to him, Jonathan was the one pushing for her not to.

I'm not a fan of Nancy. Her attitude and classism just isn't for me but S4 just made me dislike her more. One communication issue and she's back flirting with her ex, like you said pretty much cheated on with her current boyfriend.

While I waaaaaay more prefer Jonathan and Nancy, their relationship isn't good either. The writers fucked it up by having them have issues in S4 for no reason other than to push a loce triangle that ended in S2 but only came back because they didn't plan anything for Steve to do after getting with Robin in S3 which clearly didn't happen.

I like Jonathan but he gets away with so much shit. The creepy ass photos, pining after Nancy for a year while she's with Steve and then acting on it. I'd say he probably thought they had officially broken up and he saw Steve rush out of the party crying so I'll give him that.

I'd also like to add that Steve didn't kill Barb. Nancy was the one who told her to just go home after trying to pressure her into drinking when she clearly didn't want to. So for her to try and throw her own guilt at Steve just wasn't it. I get it, she's dealing with her trauma but Steve doesn't deserve that.

I get where Jonathan was coming from telling Nancy Steve isn't right for her. She would end up like her mother which is only confirmed in S4 when Steve drops the "I want 6 kids" bomb on her which was super weird and creepy to say to your ex.

They just don't know how to write female characters at times. She was a bitch to Robin for no reason as well which I'll never forget so yeah I don't like Nancy and if her and Steve end up together I'll be furious

[strangeswift]

I think the interesting aspect of byler community is how much people can reach especially when it comes to creating stuff to attribute to Mike's character such as his nonexistent connection to Max, his nonexistent connection to Eddie and his nonexistent issues like him having ED or OCD or active suicidal tendencies. People literally come up with made up stuff to attribute to Mike's character so much to the point Mike literally became an entire different character than his canon self already. The thing is, people dont act like it's just a headcanon thing. They act like those things actually exist in canon. It's one thing to have HC but it is another thing to act like those things actually are real and insisting on it when people point out the actual truth.

No, Mike doesn't have a bestie-annoyed relationship with Max. They barely talked to each other and most of the times they talk to each other they just dislike each other. No, just bc Max and Mike tried to help each other in S3 doesnt mean they have a genuine relationship. Max has the loosest relationship to Mike and Will at this point in the story. She is closest to El and Lucas, then Dustin, then Mike and Will. And no, Mike and Max arent the same characters on different fonts. They dont talk in S4 despite literally going to the same highschool in contrast to Max and Dustin actually talking to each other and being in the same scene. Mike doesnt even have a conversation with Max after seeing her nose bleed. Wouldnt it have been great to see Mike genuinely worried for her that he asks her what happened in one scene or something?

And no, Mike doesnt have a special relationship with Eddie, the show barely emphasized it at all. Had no reaction to Mike finding out he died. Literally nothing. The person who actually has a relations to Eddie is only Dustin. Mike isnt connected to Eddie on that personal level. Sure, he will be sad when he learns that Eddie died but people genuienly thinking there is a narrative that builds up something important for Eddie and Mike's dynamic and some queer gay angst in the next season is genuinely doesnt make any sense. Eddie is stated to die for Dustin's arc. Mike idolized Eddie but that's about it. Mike's character isnt connected to Eddie throughout S4, he isnt even there when Eddie died nor did he learn that Eddie died at the end of the show. That was for Dustin's character and the show emphasized that specifically.

No, Mike doesnt have multiple issues like ED, OCD and active suicidal tendencies you made up. He is traumatized and is obviously struggling with things, but just coming up with stuff and issues to attribute to his character when those things just dont exist in his character is actually actively harmful to the real people who suffer from those things.

I've always avoided using words like 'reaching' when describing some of the theories the community comes up with but honestly it is kinda getting weird regarding how people can actually reach and make up things about a narrative and a character then act like it's not a headcanon but actually something that genuinely exists within canon.

Hi anon!

Oooh. Okay. That's a lot. I shall break it down.

"The thing is, people dont act like it's just a headcanon thing. They act like those things actually exist in canon. It's one thing to have HC but it is another thing to act like those things actually are real and insisting on it when people point out the actual truth."

I think it's important to point out that some people don't act like it's a HC. Many people have HCs that they don't try to claim are canon. For example: In my mind Mike has ADHD, because I have ADHD and I see myself in some of his behaviors. But it's just a HC, and I treat it as such. In fact, I've never even talked about it on here. I keep it to myself 🤷‍♀️

But I do understand and agree with your statement that some people are asserting that their interpretations are canon and are undoubtedly what the writers intended, which is misguided and a bit arrogant.

"...his nonexistent connection to Max, his nonexistent connection to Eddie and his nonexistent issues like him having ED or OCD or active suicidal tendencies."

There is some nuance there though because you can also present canonical "evidence" for a HC without asserting that your interpretation is canon. Like for example, if I made a post compiling moments that Mike displayed what could be interpreted as ADHD symptoms in order to support my HC that Mike has ADHD, but I didn't say that Mike definitely has ADHD in canon. That wouldn't be out of line in my opinion.

TW ED + Suicidal tendencies mentioned

Okay, so some of these things there is canon evidence for and some of these things there is not. I'll get into which ones I think do have canon evidence further down in my response, but basically, Mike doesn't have a "nonexistent" connection to Eddie or Max.

On platonic Madwheeler:

"No, Mike doesn't have a bestie-annoyed relationship with Max. They barely talked to each other and most of the times they talk to each other they just dislike each other."

Full disclosure I have platonic Madwheeler brainrot so I'm going to overexplain this whole part and also turn into this guy a little bit:

(But this guy was fucking right so...)

No, Mike and Max aren't "besties" in canon, but they are friends.

Max tried very hard to befriend Mike in S2. Mike wasn't receptive because he didn't want to feel like they were replacing El. Even so, Max kept being kind to him and kept trying to be his friend. And Mike began to let his guard down in the gym scene where she was skating around him. He was laughing with her. He rushed to help her up and asked if she was alright, sounding very concerned. Here watch the scene, start at 2:00. Once he felt El's presence then the guilt came rushing back, and it reinforced his feelings of not wanting to "replace" El.

(See! He's smiling! You can see it better in the scene. Anyway, coincidence? I THINK NOT!)

In S3, Max defends Mike several times to the party. For example, when Mike and El leave early when the party is going to set up cerebro and Max says, "It's romantic."

It's not until Max realizes Mike is treating El poorly that she becomes hostile with him. And Mike is just being defensive at that point.

"No, just bc Max and Mike tried to help each other in S3 doesnt mean they have a genuine relationship. Max has the loosest relationship to Mike and Will at this point in the story. She is closest to El and Lucas, then Dustin, then Mike and Will."

Just because we don't see interactions between characters doesn't mean that those interactions aren't implied. For example, we don't see Max and Will interact at all really, but we see them hug at the end of Season 3 before the Byers leave, implying that they are friends.

"And no, Mike and Max arent the same characters on different fonts."

I meann. That's kind of a joke. But Mike and Max do share a lot of traits. They're both confrontational, both loyal, both care a lot about El, both tend to push people away at times, etc. They also just have similar vibes. And they both relate to This Is Me Trying by Dr. Taylor Swift, which is important. Write that down.

"They dont talk in S4 despite literally going to the same highschool in contrast to Max and Dustin actually talking to each other and being in the same scene."

Just because we don't see interactions between characters doesn't mean that those interactions aren't implied!! Max stands next to Mike, not Dustin, at the pep rally.

(See. She's standing next to him. Do you see??Coincidence? I THINK NOT!)

"Mike doesnt even have a conversation with Max after seeing her nose bleed. Wouldnt it have been great to see Mike genuinely worried for her that he asks her what happened in one scene or something?"

Max's nosebleed scene happens in the middle of a dramatic realization flashback sequence, having Mike ask if she was okay would have messed up the pacing and tension of the scene. You can watch the scene in this video (at 5:55) to see what I'm talking about. That being said, they do make a point to make Mike look concerned!

(It's easier to see if you just watch the scene, but he does look concerned. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!)

Moving on to Eddie:

"And no, Mike doesnt have a special relationship with Eddie, the show barely emphasized it at all."

"Mike idolized Eddie but that's about it."

I agree that they probably didn't have a close relationship. It doesn't really bother me when people interpret it as though they did or HC that they did, but there isn't conclusive canonical evidence for them having a close relationship. I don't think whether or not Mike had a close relationship with Eddie is integral to the interpretation of his character in general, so people can think what they want. And I will say the fact that Mike idolized Eddie does mean that Eddie was important to Mike, I just don't think think they were close.

"Had no reaction to Mike finding out he died. Literally nothing. The person who actually has a relations to Eddie is only Dustin. Mike isnt connected to Eddie on that personal level. Sure, he will be sad when he learns that Eddie died but people genuienly thinking there is a narrative that builds up something important for Eddie and Mike's dynamic and some queer gay angst in the next season is genuinely doesnt make any sense. Eddie is stated to die for Dustin's arc. Mike idolized Eddie but that's about it. Mike's character isnt connected to Eddie throughout S4, he isnt even there when Eddie died nor did he learn that Eddie died at the end of the show. That was for Dustin's character and the show emphasized that specifically."

Generally agree. Eddie's not gonna be a big part of Mike's arc Season 5 like he will be with Dustin's. He'll be, as Jonathan and Argyle would say, a blip. If anything.

I do think Mike would be pretty significantly affected by Eddie's death because he did idolize him. I think the fact that he idolized him specifically as an anticonformist role model and now he's dead (and considered a murderer because of his anticonformist tendencies) would probably fuck with Mike a bit. But I don't even know if the Duffers will bother to explore this with Mike, and if they do it will be very minor. Especially considering how badly they neglected Eddie's character even while he was still alive.

TW FOR ED AND SUICIDAL TENDENCIES

On Mike's mental health:

"No, Mike doesnt have multiple issues like ED, OCD and active suicidal tendencies you made up. He is traumatized and is obviously struggling with things, but just coming up with stuff and issues to attribute to his character when those things just dont exist in his character is actually actively harmful to the real people who suffer from those things."

I agree that the writers very likely didn't intend for Mike to be interpreted as having any of these issues. (Yes, including suicidal tendencies.)

I don't think HCs about Mike having OCD, ADHD, Autism, etc. are harmful at all. I don't find that to be actively harmful toward real people who suffer with those things. The only way I could see them being harmful is if people were actually saying it in a derogatory way, which I have not seen.

The ED and suicidal tendencies are a little more complicated. Here's my thoughts on the Mike ED discourse, debunking the Mike ED theory and explaining why that interpretation/HC is potentially harmful. I think similar issues to the ones I expressed in that post could arise with the interpretation of Mike having suicidal tendencies.

I don't personally think the Duffers intended Mike jumping off a cliff to be interpreted as suicidal tendencies. I think it was meant to show that Mike would do anything for his friends, to a fault.

I do however, think that many of Mike's canonical traits are indicative of mental illness. None of us are mental health professionals though, and he is also fictional, so for those reasons, conclusively ascribing any specific diagnoses to him doesn't make sense. It's fine for people to have their HCs though, as I have mine.

"I've always avoided using words like 'reaching' when describing some of the theories the community comes up with but honestly it is kinda getting weird regarding how people can actually reach and make up things about a narrative and a character then act like it's not a headcanon but actually something that genuinely exists within canon."

Agree, some people do this.

In conclusion, mostly agree? Except keep Madwheeler out ya mouth. /hj

[lookingforhappy]

oooo this is a good idea but I have to disagree a little.

I think you're onto something with Five being forced into the "badass competent older brother" role or "the only one with the braincell" role.

Five shouldn't have been able to gain entry to the CIA that young without someone behind the scenes pulling the strings (i guess the canon explanation for this one might be that the Keepers recognised Five as an Umbrella and decided to keep tabs on him by putting Ribbons in charge of him).

Five also should not have been able to cope in the real world as well as he did. between his physical age, his alcoholism, his disregard for authority,

and also his complete lack of experience in the real world, he grew up inside a compound with barely any contact or knowledge with the outside world. he was isolated as a child and then forced into being a child star, where his only contact with those that weren't his family was reporters and interviewers, photographers etc. and there's been enough coverage of child celebrities falling into drug abuse and developing mental health issues due to only these factors.

Five also has to contend with his 45 years of total isolation and constant vigilance and survival. people have talked about how bad solitary confinement is in regard to Viktor's trauma, and how it can and has driven people insane. imagine the affects that has on someone after 45 years. He has also never had to worry about things like personal property, trespassing or even money really.

On top of all of that, the only prolonged contact he had after that 45 years was the commission, who forced him to kill or be killed, and who were working behind his back to keep him from discovering what caused the end of the world, and who kept him under close observation by the Handler who consistently invaded his personal space and privacy.

All of that works together to create a person who has no idea how to survive in the real world, and is likely incredibly paranoid.

the fact that s4 took one look at Five's attitude towards the apocalypse, his specialty and the thing that he's spent 45+ years researching and working against - the one thing Five was actually knowledgable in and was in a sense comfortable dealing with - and decided that made him the most capable of the siblings.. thats insane.

however, this is where I disagree.

Five's fatal flaw isn't that he's arrogant. it's that he's afraid to show any vulnerability.

the reason Five always has to be right is because if he's wrong then he has to admit that he doesn't know what he's doing, that he's not as capable as he wants others to believe, and that he might actually need help.

that's why he comes off as arrogant, not because he actually believes he's the best or that everyone around him is stupid, but because he's afraid that if he admits he's vulnerable then someone will take advantage of his vulnerability. and not necessarily to physically hurt him or someone around him, but just to humiliate him.

that's why no one helps Diego at the Light Supper

they all sit there, feeling bad for Diego, but no one reaches out a comforting hand or tries to defend him because if they did they'd be showing vulnerability and open themselves up for attack from their father.

they all sit there not saying anything, because they all think "thank god that wasn't me".

because every one of the siblings has an aversion to showing vulnerability. It's one of the biggest reasons none of them communicate or stick together very well.

and the Light Supper is a perfect example of why, or actually who, caused this aversion to vulnerability:

Reginald had no interest in raising children, only in raising an army. admitting weakness in any capacity gets them insulted (diego), demoted (sparrow ben), forced into torturous training sessions (klaus), or manipulated to work for his benefit alone (allison).

all of the siblings are terrified of admiting weakness, and this makes them craft these fronts - Klaus' loopy drug addict persona, Diego's tough guy persona, Allison's perfect princess persona, and Five's arrogance.

Five and Diego's apparant arrogance, and their partnership in s2 shows just how perfectly their approach to dealing with their vulnerabilities match. and to an extent this is what brings them closer together, why they trust each other so deeply, because they trust that while they jab at each other they won't go so deep as to actually uncover their vulnerabilities.

that's partly why Five is the one to change the subject while everyone is sitting there feeling sorry Diego:

he takes the attention off of Diego, and focusses it on himself. He's protecting his family from Reginald - which is also conveniently why he's not part of the group that Diego accuses of not backing him up.

but he's also protecting himself by using his arrogance as a defence against Reginald's disbelief/dismissal.

Five knows more that Reginald, he's older than Reginald (maybe), and has more experience than Reginald so Reginald has no right to dismiss him.

arrogance is something that all of the Hargreeves have learned from Reginald. because actually, every single of the siblings comes off as arrogant in some way or other.

The only difference with Five, is that s4 didn't really allow him a moment to be contested like the other seasons, whereas it made a point of putting down the others.

I also don't think that Five talking to Viktor or Klaus about the apocalypse one-on-one is him being backed into a corner.

Five talks more when he's in a one-on-one situation because that's the safest you can be. one person is not much of a threat, you're not dividing your attention all that much, you don't have to keep track of more than one person's emotions or thoughts, and most of all it's less pressure on you to perform fake confidence.

Five talks one-to-one because that's where he feels he's able to be most authentically himself without feeling threatened.

He didn't need to tell Viktor at all about the apocalypse, he didn't know that Viktor was involved with it, or that he had powers, or that he'd be any help at all.

(there's a lot going on in this scene that im not unpacking rn lol)

Five goes to Viktor, alone, not because he has to but because he wants to.

and that's a big admission of vulnerability, showing that you care or trust someone. that's why Five stumbles over his reasoning, and why Viktor takes it in stride so well. Five feels safest here, but it's still a big leap in trust - to trust that Viktor won't see his vulnerability and take advantage of that to hurt him somehow.

He struggles to put down his walls of arrogance, and that's why he uses the excuse "you're ordinary" not out of cruelty but because that's the answer he's been taught is safe by his father, it makes his decision look strategic - Viktor is powerless compared to the others, he's not a threat so that's why Five's chosen him - not made out of love and trust. because that's what it is. Five is confiding in the person he trusts most, who he has boundless love for because these two were so so close as kids. Five was Viktors confidante, and Viktor was what made Reginald doubt that Five was sociopathic - they loved each other dearly and trusted each other above all others.

but then Five's trust in Viktor is shattered.

and no, he doesn't handle this well. He is very quick to give up on Viktor, and in the next scene immediately starts lying to him to push him away.

but that's where his fatal flaw comes into play. Five's issue isn't arrogance, it's this fear of vulnerability. He sees that Viktor isn't reacting to his confession in the way he expected, and immediately becomes hostile. not because he's being doubted (well, that too but that's not the main thing), but because he just bared his soul to Viktor and Viktor doesn't believe him one bit.

Five is backpedalling, trying to build his walls back up. and in their next scene Five chooses to escape this vulnerability by lying, reframing the situation so Viktor believes that he's correct, but Five knows he's wrong. better to be believed crazy when you're not, than to be believed to have vulnerabilites that can be exploited.

and importantly, Five never trusts Viktor again for the rest of s1. in fact, I don't believe they even share any scenes together at all until the final confrontation at the music hall. Which is why Five doesn't notice that Viktor's involved, or that he's becoming more unstable.

and i want to repeat, that this is Five's flaw. Viktor is being very well adjusted here, asking for clarification, expressing concern, honesty. apologising for upsetting Five or being indelicate to his mental state and trauma etc.

Five is the one at fault for running at the first sign of danger.

Five also goes on to repeatedly demonstrate that he's most comfortable expressing vulnerability when one-on-one throughout s1 - s3.

He confesses to Klaus because they're alone, and Five thinks that Klaus is on his side after successfully helping him get into Meritech.

but everytime Five tries to be genuine with Klaus, Klaus turns it on himself and doesn't take Five seriously, so Five doesn't trust him again until s3.

He then confesses to Luther, once again, alone, who does take him seriously and believe him.

and Luther actually becomes the person who Five trusts the most for the rest of s1, but he doesn't get vulnerable like this with Luther after Luther's rejection in s2.

because Luther kinda uses his vulnerability against him. He takes a moment in which Five is quiet, apologetic, vulnerable and chooses that moment to not only reject him but blame him for everything.

Five clicks so well with Diego in s2 because Diego not only sees a moment where Five is vulnerable, but because he comforts him through it.

They both are incredibly sensitive about showing vulnerability. More so than the others. and Diego is incredibly empathetic towards it in others.

so Five's flaw is that he is too afraid to show vulnerability. but a sub-flaw of this is that he's also afraid to show vulnerability by comforting others.

he apologises to Luther, and attempts to comfort Viktor, and has a few subtler moments where he distracts attention off of them and onto himself to protect them. But he's rarely open with it.

in other words, Five's not arrogant, he's pretending to be arrogant. and he's doing it so that no one notices how vulnerable he is.

His flaws needed to be challenged to allow him character growth, which I agree, they didn't do enough of in s4 and that's partly why he failed as a character in it.

but they way I would do it isn't just by forcing him to make mistakes, but by forcing him into a situation where he has to be vulnerable.

Five should have struggled, and badly, with adjusting to the normal world because he's never been a part of it before and he's not got the skillsets to be able to surivive in it. It should have forced him to ask for help and show his vulnerability, which should have led him to feel exposed and make him lash out at others as a defense. his development should then have been him learning to accept that his vulnerability isn't a death sentance and that it's ok to need and ask for help.

Five should have been completely out of his depth for this apocalypse, and he could have wrapped up his arc with Viktor by asking him for help.

or at least that's some of my thoughts. I hope they were coherent or at least an interesting read.

Last one about TUA season 4, for now.

(I talked about this in the tags of one of my RBs before but I wanted to elaborate)

I don't like how they keep trying to make Five a badass.

I find it especially frustrating as doing this constantly, bogs down any form of character development we could've had from Five.

For whatever reason, the writers seem to be allergic to acknowledging Five's biggest character flaw, his arrogance. Five always has to be right. He always has to be capable of everything and never needs any help. Despite the fact that Diego also has a very similar flaw (and is punished for it consistently), Five's seems to go completely untouched.

(A part of me thinks that the reason why they punish Diego so much more is because he comes off as the hot-headed impulsive one. While that's true, it certainly doesn't negate Five's ability to make mistakes or be incompetent)

Instead, they keep trying to invent a new flaw for Five in that; he is obsessed with the apocalypse. In reality, he's not obsessed with the apocalypse. He's obsessed with keeping his family safe. It just so happens that their most immediate threat (in his eyes) tends to be the apocalypse. (I really don't understand what they're trying to get at with this, especially considering the fact that he already has an extremely apparent flaw)

While this isn't an issue I take with season 4 specifically, it has definitely amplified this issue like crazy. Five's arrogance is vaguely addressed by his siblings in season 1, but it never seems to get him in trouble? Or at least he doesn't seem to have learned from it (except for the time-travelling thing from when he was 13, and when he bled out also in season 1)

Season 1 (and 2) handled it the best out of the four. Five never seems to ask for or accept help unless backed into a corner (telling Viktor about the apocalypse, asking Klaus to help him get the prosthetic eye). Or if he is literally incoherent or unconscious (him passing out from blood loss, him being drunk and telling Diego and Luther about what's happening).

And outside of that, Five's arrogance still had brutal consequences within this season (him not noticing Viktor's declining mental state because he was so sure about the apocalypse (but this was partially because this man tunnel-visions like crazy)).

(there are probably more instances of this with s1 & 2, i just can't think of them off the top of my head so tag them if you'd like)

Season 4 is extra mean with this. From the 'Five getting to work for the CIA at 19' to 'Five randomly figuring out what's causing the end of the world with a bunch of other Five's' while he was off moping.

And when he does make mistakes, it's not because he's actually not capable of everything and anything.

Noooo, Ben really really sneakily stole the marigold and spiked the sake. Five couldn't have possibly noticed. (and none of the other siblings for that matter)

Noooo, it's because Luther is actually super smart in figuring out that Five's boss is a Keeper (no shade to Luther btw, I like him. They just don't treat this moment as Five being a complete dumbass).

Oh no! Five (and Lila) can't figure out a way back from the metro! Never mind, another Five managed it.

Five being a homewrecker? That's him being an asshole, not incompetent so it doesn't count (lighthearted).

Five's arrogance one of his defining flaws, yet it's not really challenged. The fact that he gets away with a lot of bullshit is simply because he can! When he doesn't face failure, he doesn't find growth. He doesn't learn to stop being self-destructive just because he thinks he can do anything. He doesn't learn to reach out.

This stunt in growth is obviously not only present in Five but also everyone else. I just find his to be particularly grating since he's my favorite.

Feel free to add your thoughts to this, not just about Five's fucked up character growth but everyone else's too!

(I'll make long a ass post/video essay going into detail about all of them one of these days)

I'd love to read them :)

[coldninjaruins-blog]

I was reading this and the part I highlighted reminded me of this post from a long time ago that explained that while this sounds great it's not quite okay because Mike is technically cheating emotionally?

What is emotional cheating and how is it different from a normal platonic friendship?

Mike's currently cheating emotionally on El. Whenever he's feeling insecure Mike seeks emotional support from Will specifically. He's more open about his inner struggles and feelings. This is the clearest sign that S4 Mike views Will as the "friend that can solve everything" and holds him in high regard. That kind of behavior strings El along in a deadbeat relationship because she looks to Mike for comfort, but Mike doesn't look to her for comfort. (El hugging/getting comforted by Will in S4 doesn't count since they're siblings now).

Mike allows Will access to him that he routinely denies El. He tells Will intimate details of his relationship woes with El. Confessing to Will his inability to declare his "love" to El and how he needs to be needed. El doesn't talk to anyone about her rocky relationship in S4. She keeps it between them, but Mike ruins that privacy by letting Will know the tea, despite Will never asking about why the couple is going through it. Already, Mike and El need to have an overdue talk about boundaries.

Mike's response is so funny, it's as if he perceived the "what about us" as romantic and is forced to clarify not once but twice that they are friends (which is what Will was referring to) so defensively.

Of course Mike can seek support and comfort from his loved ones but the way the writers did that pushes the boundaries of a normal platonic friendship (a platonic friendship where one of the people involved is in love with the other so...).

We can use Jonathan and Argyle as an example! While at the same time Nancy and Jonathan have problems in their relationship just like Mike and El, Jonathan also tells Argyle about these problems (got stressed out and it's not even my girlfriend lmao), similar to the dynamic between Mike and Will but the roles played by Will and Argyle are different.

Friends play a supportive role, not a leading one

Argyle is a supportive role on his friendship with Jonathan and his relantionship.

Meanwhile Will...

"Mike, don’t stop, okay? You’re the heart. Okay? Remember that. You’re the heart."

He says this to Mike moments before Mike does his monologue and tells El that he loves her, is he playing a supporting role or... a leading one?

(Even the song that plays in this scene is called "you're the heart" a line from Will in a scene that is supposed to be about Mike and El ).

At the end of the day Mike is just a 14 year old boy who is confused and can't handle all his relationships with others (especially El and Will) correctly but he is also totally fictional and all his behavior is on purpose for some narrative reason so it doesn't hurt anyone if we wonder why the writers chosed that while he has lack of communication problems with his girlfriend that weren't even fully resolved based on the fact that even after the monologue they barely spoke they made his totally platonic friend the one "who can get to Mike in a way that no one else can.

The one who is able to make Mike more open about his feelings and make him feel better about himself" in OP's owns words.

[slinkykinkyjou]

PotN S3 Finale spoilers

I believe that SH might be THE king of the yandere archetype, but he did not do anything to warrant this violence against him (Min and his cronies see NK as a belonging of SH’s - the rape is to punish SH, and have a “good” time). In the end, SH wept. Prediction: SH might blame himself, which will drive a wedge between him and NK in S4. Thoughts?

I’ve given a lot of thought over course of the book to Min’s motivations, and here’s where I land on this. Min was a spoiled, bored noble with a clever, under-stimulated mind and too much time on his hands. I was bullied by people like Min as a kid.

But even orgies, booze, and partying got monotonous after a while. He may not know how got there, but Min can see that resident dom SH is Fucked Up with a capital F. Everyone knows SH to be radical, rebellious, taboo. He’s a comet blazing bright and destined to burn itself out young; in a conservative Confucian society, he’s a spectacle. He’s /interesting/. SH can do the taboo things Min can only fantasize about, because SH doesn’t care about the consequences he barrels towards. Min considers himself a spectator to SH’s messy demise. “Oh ho ho! How novel! How droll!”

I believe Min was motivated by cruelty and sadism, like a zoo visitor stabbing at an abused tiger stuck behind bars (the bars here a metaphor for societal expectations and filial/civic duty). Ultimately, Min got too close to the cage and the tiger tore him apart.

SH is living with severe PTSD. Nightmares, self-destructive and self-loathing behavior - he’s been on the highway to hell ever since he came limping out of Confucian Gay Conversion Therapy, and up until he fell in love with NK, he had nothing to live for. Why not waste away the days in hedonism and despair?

But now he is in love. And has someone that, (toxic Stockholm pornographic fantasy sexiness or not), loves him back. Is it too late? I think maybe... In his traumatized shitshow of a life, SH has burned every bridge he’s come across. Dangit. He’s burned bridges with: his father, Jihwa + his family, his servants are a rotating door, Heena (maybe — what do you all think?), the gang rapist nobles he killed, and InHun the Insufferable Twat. His only allies are Nakyum, who holds zero social clout, and real GOAT Mr. Kim. (Mr. Kim is fucking legend, I stg.)

It was so satisfying in the moment for SH to kill the gang rapists. They deserved it. But that’s just a temporary hit of dopamine that feels good in the moment and will come back to bite SH soon. SH has been stockpiling ill will and S4 is going to explore the consequences of it. Which I hate. I just want them to cuddle and be safe and in love. Please Byeonduck pleeeease let them live happily.

Prediction, please don’t shoot the messenger here: I think S4 is going to be torture for us. I think we’re going to see SH’s topknot cut. I think we’re going to see Mr. Kim, NK, and/or SH flogged. I think InHun the Insufferable is going to prance back in all fancy and taunt SH, and do his best to ruin his life. I think we’ll see NK more helpless than ever before, and I think SH is going to be humiliated at bare minimum. And I hate that. So much. That said, despite all my sad predictions lol, I have hope for a happy ending. I can go into that more if people want to hear my thoughts on that, just lmk.

Re: the art… wow. The angelic panels of NK’s sweet little cherub face all bruised and bloodied were really lovingly drawn. You can see she’s communicating his innocence; NK represents all things good in SH’s life, and hope for a better future. The light haloes on NK like a religious figure, elevating him to this iconic/unearthly status that I interpret as a metaphor for SH’s path to healing.

The panels with SH’s face are always a show stealer. The hurt on his furious murder face was a new variation on his usual psycho white-eyed murder look. In the past his eyebrows are usually stiff and almost blank, but before he kills Min, his eyebrows are furrowed and he looks pained. He took it VERY personally that time, there was a hint of befuddlement (“Why have you gone this far, Min? What the literal fuck is wrong with you?”) and disbelief (“Please let this be another nightmare right now and let me wake up in bed with NK safe beside me.”) I read those flavors into his expression.

The final panel of SH staring into NK’s eyes, weeping, stabbed me in the gut like the dude in purple. His eyes were that blank, shocked, buffering-in-progress stare again, but tears were just drizzling over uncontrollably. Have we ever seen him cry from sadness before? He seems like the type to cry from frustration or rage, but in this panel my dude is grieving.

Discussion questions for the class here, lol.

What do you think happened in the past with the Yoon family? (I’m still not clear on that myself.) How is that going to affect what happens to SH in S4? Where do you think Heena is, and if she is alive, do you think she’ll be a problem or unexpected ally in S4? Is there any hope for a happier ending in your opinion?

[familyagrestefanblog]

My reply got longer and quite charged with alot of things I kinda held my tongue about. Also, it`s a bit unstructured as well.

Just as a warning ahead

................................................

You know, thinking about it, the New York special actually does play significantly into the Ladynoir conflict in S4, as we also now by the end of S5 that they are genuinely meant to be seen as Canon and this one was placed between s3 and s4.

But it's particularly the display of Chat Noir basically falling apart beside her, openly voicing pretty much unfiltered how worthless he sees himself in that moment, and her just... remaining entirely silent, not thinking about giving a bit of the support back she normally receives from him unconditionally, that really sells it for me in hindsight that Maribug never had to learn to actually be a good partner.

In fact, even when Chat Noir left she was still being more sad for herself than him. Saying that she doesn't know how to be Ladybug without him and that he made his choice, regarding him leaving.

The narrative shields Marinette so much from having to learn to be a good partner that a third person - Uncanny Valley, the fucking VICTIM - had to independently make all the work for Ladybug by recording her voice without Marinette's knowledge, so she can get Chat Noir back.

This is basically "Hack-San", where Alya (the third person) had to do all the work to make up for Ladybug's non-existent communication with Chat Noir and barely sparing him a single thought, which resulted with him getting the darkest red alert situation getting thrown in his face

(someone else / possibly a Sentibeing suddenly having LBs miraculous, for which he was then punished for reacting accordingly

which WAS one of the most logical explanations for what happened from his Pov. I will never get over how BADLY Chat Noir was punished for Marinette’s negligence. That episode said more about Marinette never even concidering that something could ever happen to him bc for her he only spawns into existence for akumas, than anything bad about Adrien. HE actually cared about his partner, SHE apparently wouldn't have questioned it if Gabriel had truly caught his son, taken his Miraculous and given it to a Sentihuman under his control to trick Ladybug)

But back to the New York special

Even when Marinette then is given Chat Noir back without her having to do a single thing nor take accountability for how badly she just failed him while he spiraled down deeper and deeper, right tf BESIDE her

And I'm sorry for being this blunt about it now, but not even when he comes back does she open up her mouth. HE is the only one being held accountable and asked by the narrative to properly learn his lessons and verbalize it towards Ladybug and the viewer.

Ladybug lost Chat Noir in the New York special bc she failed to return the very same support she gets unconditionally over and over from him when he was right beside her insulting himself into the ground,

and because she wasn't asked to do and learn a single thing to get him back (bc the victim took it upon herself to do Ladybug's job) she still remained entirely silent once he came back. Even after HE took accountability for having had feelings and leaving in extremely understandable circumstances, which as always had to go entirely invalidated bc them having made Maribug sad was more important than Adrien thinking he's unworthy of being the Miraculous holder of Destruction bc he just killed a person!

If the specials are Canon then there simply is no argument anymore that Ladybug not treating him better "is Adrichat's own fault for not telling her" because he literally DID and she remained silent and seemingly immediately forgot what he said bc she herself was having problems and bad feelings too and that for some reason equals Marinette not being able anymore to listen to what he's even saying.

Much less LEARNING from it.

If the specials are Canon, then Adrien learned there how Ladybug reacts when he openly voices his insecurities, which pretty much explains why he isn't doing it more in s4 and s5.

It is always the same situation and barely ever is Marinette asked to actually improve on her extreme weaknesses in the Ladynoir dynamic. It's always just Chat Noir, Chat Noir, Chat Noir, because, well, Ladybug is in the leadership position and is the dominant one and therefore she was always just able to kinda keep on demanding (on a whim and depending on her mood and what she needs) to never having really been wrong, so she doesn't truly need to learn anything substantial regarding him and the way she treats him.

And therefore she barely ever did.

I know she values him alot and doesnt want bad things happening for and to him (that's a disturbingly low bar..), but the way she values him raises the question about how much human personhood she truly recognizes in him, and if her favorite aspects of him, what she values him for, arent the consistent facts that she DOESNT have to really care about him the way she should, and concider him and his survival bc she likes him as fae-like partner and was barely held accountable for it. No, even VALIDATED for it by the end of "Strike back" and him just being perfect in s5? "Elation" wasnt talking bs when they compared MariChat to a celebrity crush, that was in fact accurate, with all its not so neat implications for Marinette's side.

Her characterization is always consistent, even until the end of season 5. She wants Chat Noir by her side but she isn't willing to actually DO her job as his PARTNER, leader and eventually guardian (or really view his as a real civilian person underneath, existing in reality) to make it possible for Chat Noir to make it out by her side.

The more time passes and I look back on everything that happened til the end of S5, the more I have to say I'm not shocked at all that, by all means, Chat Noir didn't made it out of the Ladynoir partnership and only returned in the new reality. The fact that Adrichat even made it this far all alone as Chat and without a partner who actually is capable of giving basic support is a miracle in itself.

Even Destruction and the Paris special are continuing this, by having shown us in hindsight that not only did Marinette not give Chat Noir one bit of actual support back when he was made to cataclysm Monarque - when HER plan backfired, she unnecessarily told him nothing about in advance regarding his role in it -

(while Marinette then made sure SHE gets emotionally taken care of by Alya, after basically only having prioritized herself too when Chat was in great emotional distress in "Destruction" after the incident, wanting that he understands that she can't undo it and that SHE is being given understanding from him for it. That was all Marinette prioritized in Destruction and at its core it amounts once again to only herself.)

And in the Paris special, which is placed between s5 and s6, we found out taht Chat Noir was then actually made to cataclysm ANOTHER PERSON ON THE SAME DAMN NIGHT - his own alternative and clearly self-destructive villain self - and as per usual Maribug never does a thing to even ATTEMPT to give Chat Noir support, while sure being willing to accept even more support from HIM when she's freaking out.

If the specials are Canon, then things simply look even worse for Marinette in Ladynoir.

Because if the New York special is Canon, then you can't make the excuses anymore of "Ladybug cannot possibly know that Chat's having such grave self esteem issues" or that "He never ever voices any of it to her, cause if he did she WOULD help him!"

Cause in the Paris special, taking place BEFORE season 4 he openly spiraled so god damn hard beside her, while explicitly voicing every insecurity in his head, and she canonly remained silent instead of giving one bit of support in return, and then she basically threw a pitty party for HERSELF when he left. After which she still barely learned anything bc even when she's given Chat Noir back without her having to take any accountability or make an effort to GET him back (she once again just accepted he left similar as in Kuro Neko and cast all responsibility from her by saying "it was his choice") she still says nothing and only fist bumps him as "forgiveness".

Intentionally or not, sending the message that SHE did nothing wrong and it was only HIM who has to take accountability for EVERYTHING. And even when he again calls himself "stupid" for having dared to be human in these fucked up circumstances without emotional support and having left, she says nothing to NOT have him internalize that.

That's the s4 Ladynoir conflict to a T. Maribug has barely ever learned a thing about becoming a good partner herself which was then driven home by the next special of Paris.

Because by this point, Chat Noir couldn't be having any more obvious problems regarding the morality of his powers, and his emotions, while not getting any help himself, after having been forced to cataclysm both Monarque and Griffe Noire in the same night,

Which is where her inability to give support back was then not only PAINFULLY highlighted, it also gave more context for why this exact inability was felt so badly for the rest of season 5. Most significantly, right away in "Jubilation" when Chat is basically emotionally bleeding right in front of her bc the akuma played hard core with their desperate feelings,

Chat Noir in "Derision" then loosing control of his emotions bc of how badly Kim hurt Marinette (remember that Elation EXISTS) and threatening to cataclysm him, since by that point it's genuinely not clear anymore what a cataclysm does to a person. All Adrien knows is that it's not an instant-kill the way he and we always thought and feared.

If ONLY he had a GUARDIAN by his side who might help him for once with this, since HE has barely ever received guardian support but sure as hell had to help BOTH Ladybug and Rena/ Scarabella with their power usages and insecurities. Interesting, so that part of the guardianship is inherently HIS job, huh?

Only times he got help really being "Syren" (When Marinette had to make Fu do it) and "Passion", but even there you can make the argument that Marinette doing her GUARDIAN JOB towards Chat for once, by giving him support, only happened bc Adrien was literally holding her damn earrings hostage, as he broadly asked her to remind him of why he they should NOT make a wish. He asked so she can talk her out of it, that should be obvious since he could have run away in a heartbeat and she couldn't have stopped him. And even there he had to met her half way after, only having dared to ask her at all when she literally cannot run from this either.

Then "Revolution" having Chat admit to Ladybug, once they thought they reached the end of the line, that he was still thinking abysmally low of himself. He just "Faked it til he made it" for her sake, which as per usual had LB say no more than "You were perfect, mon Chaton"

(which is a problematic can of worms in itself. That in s5, once she isn't ask of anything anymore in Ladynoir, she suddenly says he was "perfect" when in s4 it was important for her that he understands by "Kuro Neko" that HE is the problem in everything and HE has to suck it up and do better and be grateful)

Which of course resulted in Adrien giving himself up in London bc of the nightmares, bc the alternative would have required asking of Ladybug to emotionally "take care of him" and protect him by paying attention to catch the akumas with her yoyo, or even worse, she could find out who he is. Which Maribug in s4 really hammered down in their dynamic that NOTHING could ever possibly justify her having to know who he is.

So, meaning at the bottom line Marinette has created: when the chips are down and something in his life makes such bad troubles that it fundamentally prevents him from being able to function by himself, while also being her emotional anchor and eternal support rock while occasionally ALSO having to do her job now as well, then it's basically Chat Noir's responsibility to die alone and out of her view so it doesn't upset her, sending her another support cat who will help her since he's only her favorite ring finger the Black Cat miraculous is on. Not actually important as a person.

Maribug had 5 entire seasons time to do her job as partner and leader, to let Chat Noir know that when shit goes down HE too has the right to ask for her help. That he's WORTH that much in this dynamic.

Even if it means she might for once have to ask a damn question she's afraid of hearing the answer to. Even when it makes her uncomfortable, and not just give him what little is still mostly beneficial to her.

Or that he can ask of her to for once use one for her many resources for HIS SAKE too, not just her own. Not constantly having to accept to run the risk of Chat Noir remaining entirely isolated and at Monarque's mercy if the villain should ever find him. Which is apparently something Marinette was willing to risk since the only time she brought this factor up was to use it against him in "Ephemeral". And then never again.

She had 5 entire seasons time and yet by the end of season 5 Ladynoir never went passed what "Kuro Neko" had Maribug - intentionally or not, its beyond irrelevant at this point - reinforced as the fundamental and professional baseline terms of how Ladynoir works, and then they never recovered from it:

"the 'Chat Noir human sacrifices himself, leaving Ladybug alone of the battle field' level bc in their dynamic he himself as a human being underneath the mask is neither properly acknowledge as actually existing, nor that the boy underneath the mask has more worth in this dynamic than Ladybug's perfectly (pre-abused) support cat partner she barely has to give anything back to HAVE him"

All Ladynoir was reduced to in the s5 finale is what Maribug teached an entire generation of children everywhere with "Kuro Neko":

That Chat Noir as actual human being and person has no significance when shit gets real and she shouldn't ever be asked of to have done more, bc all SHE established to be her part on the very professional bottom line terms of this "partnership"

Was wanting him back in the end, which is all the s5 finale asked of her.

She wants him back as she said bc he's her favorite fae-like person to have the Black Cat miraculous, since (unfortunately) with no one else the bar would be THIS abysmally low.

No matter how much she values him, THIS inherently puts into question what exactly she subconsciously values him for.

It is insane that s4 and s5 have pushed this so far that I'm not even feeling bad anymore that Marinette ended up having to fight Monarque all by herself and lost (oh sorry, of course I meant "clearly having WON cause the villain laid down his weapons when he got to do make the reality changing wish he always wanted, just now in a different way but still entirely on his terms")

This whole battle was already lost with "Kuro Neko" when Adrien had to learn to accept Ladybug's order that in her leadership and guardianship HE does not get to exist as a civilian, he is HALF A HUMAN BEING, and she won't settle for anything else than Chat Noir only existing in his mask since that's how she prefers it (not even season 5 did anything to really ask more of her than his)

Because behind his back she long has made a second partner who actually GETS to exist as a real person, which is Alya/ Rena. Season 5 really made that clear, Alya and Chat Noir are literally 2 halves of ONE PARTNER.

No wonder that boy didn't make it out of this.

One could almost think Ladynoir perfectly prepared him for Cerise/ Chrysalis to swoop in now and take advantage of it or something. Both Ladybug and Chat Noir having a fox (coded) partner doesn't seem very unrealistic narrative wise, you know?

Hey, I was wondering if you could talk more about what you thought about the conflict that happened between Ladybug and Chat Noir in the new york special?

Certainly. Mainly, it’s the same issue we saw in ‘Glaciator’ but manifesting in a different way: these two tend to misunderstand the relationship between them because of their personal experiences and expectations, which tend to naturally be in conflict because of the very different pasts the two characters have. I also think the conflict was two-sided and only one side of the issue at hand was solved. We had Cat Noir’s dishonesty and Ladybug’s inability to act as a comforter, with only the former being solved.

Since it's the one that gets resolved and it's more straightforward, let's start with Cat Noir's side. He's the child of a strict, emotionally abusive father and we've repeatedly seen that he projects his relationship with his father into his relationship with Ladybug, and here it happens again. Gabriel would not let Adrien do what he doesn't allow and we've seen what he does when Adrien disappoints him: punishes him severely.

Strict parents don’t raise obedient children, they raise children who lie well. And Adrien had more of a motive to be deceitful than most. This special was the first time Ladybug gave him responsibility over something. If he said he couldn’t do it, would she ever trust him with anything again? Or, would she simply tell him to suck it up and do as he’s told, forcing Adrien to choose between her and his father in their demands of him? And Plagg, who I will point out, has been actively more helpful in season three, actually helped Adrien come up with a plan that, to their reasonable expectations, would not have led to anyone being hurt or disappointed, so Adrien obviously saw that simply not letting Ladybug know that he wouldn’t be physically present in Paris would work out. Adrien even was responsible about it; he kept himself actively informed of the situation in Paris up until he was made to put his phone away. And then things went to hell in a handbasket at the worst possible moment.

However, here comes the fault in Adrien’s reasoning, which was very reasonable to him and his implied-to-be equally abused Kwami: Ladybug is nothing like Gabriel. Marinette would have heard him out and they’d have come up with a plan together to deal with the situation, as long as Cat Noir got a hold of her soon enough for them to meet up and make a plan. We don’t really know what the time frame is between Adrien finding out and the departure of the plane to New York, but, considering Plagg stopped Adrien from contacting Ladybug, and no time constraint was mentioned, they’d have had plenty of time.

This is the beginning and end of Adrien’s half of the conflict. After this point, he’s merely reacting to what he thinks are clear signals from Ladybug. He tries to help with the villain the best he can, while Ladybug keeps distracting him by berating him in the middle of the fight, finally breaking his will to fight entirely by declaring she can’t trust him anymore, one of the nightmare scenarios I mentioned earlier. Add to that the villain using his power to harm Uncanny, he was convinced that Ladybug would be better off with any other partner. When Ladybug didn’t refute his assessment that he was a failure and no good hero, he decided he was right and abandoned his ring. However, when Uncanny revealed to him that Ladybug did, in fact, still need him specifically as her partner, he came back, deciding that it didn’t matter if he was a worthless failure as long as Ladybug would find a use for him anyway. Adrien repeatedly describes himself negatively in comparison to others, his self esteem is awful, but that wasn’t really a matter being handled in the special.

When Cat Noir made it to Ladybug and was instantly welcomed back, he apologised for not being honest and Ladybug signalled her forgiveness with a fistbump. This gesture signalled to Adrien that he could trust Ladybug and that Ladybug trusted him back, that the things she’d said in anger were just that. This showed Adrien in a blatant way that Ladybug was nothing like Gabriel, who would have lorded Adrien’s failure over him and punished him, instead of accepting his assurance that he’ll do better next time. This was an important lesson to Adrien, because he needs to be as honest with Ladybug as their secret identities allow because they’re a team and can’t go doing things independently when it affects them both. Adrien’s experiences in the special are ones that will specifically help him overcome his character flaw of being too distructful of others’ intentions when it comes to Ladybug.

Then comes Marinette’s side, and this one is more complex. While how badly she was distracted in that fight and how badly she distracted Cat Noir was an issue in and of itself, it wasn’t the thing on her part that escalated the conflict. It was merely what set up her state of mind. What escalated the conflict were the things she said in anger that she didn’t take back while Cat Noir was clearly falling apart. Marinette was understandably upset by what happened in Paris, but she made a very big mistake with how she handled that: she focused only on herself. Marinette needed comfort because she couldn’t heal Paris, but Cat Noir needed comfort because they could do nothing to help Paris, he’d just temporarily killed someone and he felt like a failure as a partner. But, when Cat Noir didn’t instantly move to assure her that she was fine, Marinette turned her back on him and walked away. She wanted space, because Marinette usually finds a quiet corner to think when she’s dealing with something, but Adrien saw that as a rejection. And when Cat Noir voiced all these things going on in his mind, she was silent, making him feel like she was condemning him, seeing him as worthlessly as he did. So he decided to leave her so that she could find a better partner.

Marinette also has her own misconceptions about her and Cat Noir’s relationship. This is another thing I noticed in ‘Glaciator’: Marinette doesn’t think Cat Noir is an actual human being with real human emotions and problems. She got better about it after ‘Glaciator’, like accepting his feelings for her as genuine, but she still doesn’t understand that Cat Noir can get hurt emotionally and might need a bit of support every once in a while. In fact, in ‘Timetagger’, she blatantly shuts him down when he’s looking for affirmation, claiming he “already knows he’s the best”, when Adrien actually has very poor self esteem. I mentioned in another comment that Marinette sees Cat Noir as a fae-like being, someone who only goofs around and supports her, and is never touched by worldly things like pain and sadness. The only threat to him are the supervillains they face. Every time one of them has shown a need for comfort, it’s been Ladybug, and Cat Noir has always been the one to comfort her. They’re stuck in these roles, and Marinette doesn’t know how to break out of them when Cat Noir is the one needing comfort and support. To drive this aspect of the conflict home, this is the direct reverse of the situation in ‘Miracle Queen’. In ‘Miracle Queen’, Marinette makes a mistake with real consequences, gets Fu’s identity revealed to Hawk Moth which led to his capture, but Cat Noir overlooks that to support her instead. In the special, Cat Noir’s mistake causes property damage in Paris that they can’t undo, but Marinette can’t overlook it to support her partner through his mistake.

Here’s the thing: Marinette has a good life. She has a supportive family and supportive friends. This gives her a solid foundation as a superhero and it means she’s used to people picking her up when she falls down. It’s not just her relationship with Cat Noir that’s characterized by the idea that support just shows up when she needs it. Heck, at the end of ‘Love Hunter’, Luka seemingly magically appears for the sole purpose of giving Marinette some comfort. However, we’ve seen some hints, mostly in ‘Weredad’, that at least her dad wants to overly protect her. We don’t know how well Marinette would actually take Adrien rejecting her, but, considering how miserable she was repeatedly in season two over just not getting to see him, I suspect not well, and her dad was convinced she’d go as far as being easily shattered by that. Children need to feel small disappointments to be able to handle the actual hurdles they’ll face later in life. The way Marinette becomes an anxious mess over failing at something reminds me of myself as a teenager, and I was a very shielded child. My mom pampered me, not by much, but enough that I had to learn to pick myself and others up at a later age. And I feel that’s a lesson Marinette needs to learn as well.

We saw from what Marinette said to Uncanny that she didn’t think Cat Noir’s mistake was irreparable. She didn’t mean the gestures I described earlier as how Adrien saw them. She didn’t mean to turn her back on him to reject him and she didn’t mean her silence to be read as her agreeing that he was a bad partner. But she never once considered that she might be sending Cat Noir these signals, even as Cat Noir told her how he felt about himself in relation to her. Instead of supporting her partner by saying anything to refute his self-disparaging comments, or even sharing their pain together, Marinette remains silent, experiencing her own pain alone and leaving Cat Noir with his. Marinette is a good leader, but she’s not a good partner, because she lacks the ability to support Cat Noir. This isn’t her fault, it’s a character flaw like Adrien’s distrust of others to consider his well being in any scenario. However, it’s one that’s harder to fix than Adrien’s, because Adrien’s flaw is one of perception, so he just needs to see contrary evidence to learn better. Marinette’s issue is that she lacks important skills for comforting someone: spotting a need and responding to it. I’m pretty sure we haven’t seen Marinette actively comfort anyone during the entire series. It’s very likely she’s never had to do so before the moment with Cat Noir in this special.

This is why Adrien leaving her was so important to Marinette’s future growth as a partner specifically. Technically Marinette needed it to happen. Marinette had to learn that you can’t expect someone to be there indefinitely if you never let them know you want them there, and she had to learn that Cat Noir needs her to reciprocate the supportive relationship between them instead of only enjoying the benefits of her partner’s almost unwavering support. An unequal relationship will not last. If you just keep someone around for their comfort, they’ll leave you once they have none left to give. If you just keep someone around for their good days, they’ll leave you once their bad days come. But in this special we saw Marinette taking the first steps towards realizing her partner’s humanity, ergo, fixing the part of the issue that’s in her perception: she was still thinking about him when she was Marinette. I noted in ‘Glaciator’ that Marinette usually stops thinking about Cat Noir once she’s Marinette again, which is part of that whole “seeing him as otherworldly” thing. Breaking out of that mindset is as important as it is for Adrien to break out of the “everyone would turn on me if I didn’t please them 24/7” one.

Basically: the conflict was resolved, but it showed where development still needs to happen.

[demadogs]

Of course the Duffers knew how everyone would be freaking out. Out of all the battles in Stranger Things, the one in which Stranger Things is sort of an ace under Netflix's sleeve against Disney gotta be the biggest one and Netflix is just trying to keep on top of Disney, making ST a trend topic is just the way to do so, even more because Disney just premiered Obi-Wan. Both series premiered a day apart, that's probably why s4 was cut in two too... and the thing is the feud with Disney is one of the main reasons i believe they might go through with Byler. Disney has been cowarding about having lgbt characters and will erase them from existence if they can (which - spoiler - happened twice just in Dr. Strange 2). On the other hand Netflix gets a bit of backlash about havibg so many queer characters, but they are more open to lgbt characters getting what they want (cue to the success of Heartstopper and how they renewed it for not 1 but 2 more seasons already only a month after its initial release). I know ST is way too mainstream at this point and a lot of people who watch it might not care about the lgbt community, but the fact that Will may be gay was thrown into the story from the very beginning which means people still watching came into season 2 already expecting something could happen on that matter. It only grew stronger as the seasons went by. Not for nothing many are complaining about Mike's cold behavior towards E* this season. It's the little things that make me believe this might still happen.

yeah i guess there is a whole other business side to it that i never considered but i dont agree with all of this. i dont think the duffers had any of netflix’s competitors in mind when deciding to go through with byler. i think if that was true then all the queercoding we’ve seen wouldnt have been there because it would be a random marketing decision, not a progressive character arc. and disney has nothing to do with why they divided it up, they did that because 13 hours of content dropped all at once would be a bit much.

the rest of this ask has nothing to do with byler i just kinda went off about gay media and couldnt stop.

disney is pretty shit when it comes to lgbt characters. when the force awakens came out people loved the idea of finnpoe and even the actors stated multiple times that theyd be so on board with that but when the last jedi came out if i remember correctly i think they barely had any screen time together? i think there was one kinda wholesome moment at the beginning and then nothing the whole rest of the movie. and yet they had two unnamed girls kiss for one second that was edited out in multiple countries and had the nerve to call it “representation”.

that being said, i do have beef with netflix about their lgbt representation too. every single one of my favorite wlw shows on netflix has been canceled. the mlm ones fucking skyrocket but they always cancel the girl ones and it pisses me off. i am not okay with this, everything sucks, one day at a time, trinkets, like fucking COME ON!!!!!

i will never be over them canceling ianowt and everything sucks. both have very appropriate names for how i felt about them being canceled. ianowt had such a cool supernatural plot and i loved the cast so much and everything sucks was just fucking adorable with the super popular girl getting with the nerdy shy girl in the 90s. i loved it and it had so much more potential. they also canceled one day at a time which is such a fucking funny show. it’s a good comedy that casually has a lesbian lead and its just genuinely hilarious. i wrote a paper about this show my freshman year of college.

another thing was in the end of the fucking world. listen i LOVE this show with all my heart. i did a semester long project on it and i have the comic its based on, but in season one there was a whole lesbian cop side plot and they completely threw it out in season two!!! you didnt even see those characters again!! its so fucking annoying thats my only complaint about that show.

i know not EVERY wlw netflix show has been canceled, but too many of them have. i’ll always be pissed about ianowt because that was supernatural and lesbian and theres just not enough shows that have that. give me more superpower lesbians.

thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[literatikoo]

Jess Mariano's alleged communication problems

If there is one thing the Gilmore Girls fandom agrees upon, whether you're team Jess or Dean or Logan, it's that Jess isn't great at communicating. There's just a consensus that he's not great at discussing his problems and that's the number 1 reason why his and Rory's relationship blew up in their face in season 3. But... this is a (somewhat) unfounded complaint? Don't get me wrong, I know Jess can be harsh and rude and really knows how to hit the nail on the head sometimes but there are also multiple instances where he talks after being pushed a little. Like every single time he's talked to Luke about Rory problems ("The girls I like don't give a damn about me," "I told her I loved her" and the infamous swan episode) or when he tells Rory, a girl he barely knows, that his mom doesn't want him back for Christmas.

The problem with Jess is that he picks and chooses who to communicate too. He definitely doesn't talk about Liz to Luke because he knows that Luke just doesn't believe that Liz is a bad person and a neglectful mother. And seriously, we've seen Luke enable Liz' terrible behaviour multiple times on the show, do you really think he would've believed whatever Jess had to say about her? He talks to Rory about Liz that one time and she doesn't believe him either and both we and Jess know that she has a right to that because she's never met Liz, but this is still enough for Jess to never bring her up again (at least from what we see) because he's a 17 year old kid with a terrible relationship with his parents. NO 17 year old kid who's been treated bad by their parents would want to open up about it because it's pretty strongly ingrained in us that having negative emotions against your parents is WRONG. On the other hand, Jess knows that Luke sees his and Rory's relationship and may even help because he has his own unique relationship with the Gilmore Girls, which is why he's much more open about Rory and even seeks advice on occasion.

Now, let's talk about Jess' less than stellar communication moments:

1. Lying about school and Walmart: Jess skives off school a LOT to work at Walmart and save up money. He doesn't tell anyone about it. Why? Because for everyone else in Stars Hollow, and for most of us too, school is important and education is a positive thing needed for growth. But who knows how often Jess went to school before SH, we already know he has a bad relationship with the educational system but why? When he goes back to NY in s2 it's obvious he's not going to school and we know Liz moved around a lot so he may be a lot more behind in school than we know. Yes, he's smart and he reads a lot but that's not enough to do well in school; you need to be able to conform a fair amount and I don't think Jess even went enough to know that. Jess already wasn't planning on going to college and he knows that living with Luke is temporary, which is why he puts more importance into saving up money. He was already working for the future, just in a different way from everyone else. It's obvious that he also wasn't planning to flunk out of school, it happened because he wasn't attending enough not because he was failing (which pisses me off so much don't even get me started). He was going to graduate and then he was going to use the money he saved up while looking for a job that suited him. And that's a pretty solid plan honestly, especially since he didn't have the luxury to suddenly decide to go to 4 year college because his girlfriend told him too like Dean. But this is something else he just couldn't talk about to Luke or Rory, who both think he's capable of great things within the academic sphere. Mind you, once Luke found out he was skipping school he didn't deal with things in the best way either. He stole his car, effectively cutting off Jess' last bit of independence. I really feel like Jess was just waiting to graduate before he had THE talk with Rory about their future, and it was obvious he was thinking longterm ("22.8 miles"). That is before everything goes to shit.

2. Keg! Max!: Let me preface this by saying that Jess definitely made irreversible mistakes in this episode... but it wasn't for the lack of trying. This is the episode that he finds out he's not graduating and we can see him struggling with this information, he's tense and angry and his emotions are simmering. His interactions with Rory, which are usually so easygoing, are surrounded by this air of finality. At this moment, he knows he's going to lose her and his home with Luke because that's what the deal was. But he still goes with her to that party and he still does the bare minimum of mingling. Throughout the party he tells Rory that he wants to leave, I'm guessing to talk to her about what happened. But they don't (this is NOT Rory's fault btw, she had no way to know what happened either) and instead Jess' emotions get the better of him. This is the first of the two instances where we really see how non communicative Jess can be. However I still maintain that if Dean hadn't gotten involved, Jess and Rory would've been able to talk. (fuck Dean)

3. Jess leaves: This is the second case where we see him being truly non communicative, and unfortunately I don't have much to say in his defence. Except that he probably was still reeling from losing his home and meeting his Dad and just didn't know how to put that insane amount of emotion into words. He also probably thought that Rory just didn't want to talk to him anymore because of how terribly he treated her, especially since he was just going to give her more bad news. He could see himself self destructing, and didn't want Rory to be collateral damage.

4. Smaller instances (Swan song, Not calling Rory, fighting with Lorelai): Okay, I think the swan incident was Rory's fault, because he was telling her the truth and just didn't want to get into it in front of Emily. But she wasn't ready to hear it until she talked to Dean, which honestly was a sucky move on her part. The not calling her when he said he would while they were dating in that one random episode was also a similar misunderstanding. The thing in common with both of these instances was that he was ready to learn afterwards; he said he was willing to go back to Emily's house and he bought them tickets to the Distillers and from what the show tells us they had a lot more consistent date nights after that. This was Jess' first proper relationship and he was really trying. Now the Lorelai thing... he just didn't want her in his business. They had no relation to each other and she was very condescending to him the first time they met, he wasn't great either but when an adult talks to you the way she did after you've just been uprooted at your mothers whims, you tend to hate them a little. And honestly I always thought that Jess being weirded out by Lorelai's involvement in his and Rory's relationship was more normal 17 year old behaviour than Dean being overly friendly with her.

So, in conclusion, because he made two big fatal communication mistakes, he's labelled as the broody non talking type. When we see most of the characters actually do the same (Rory drops out of Yale and cuts off ties with her mother, Lorelai sleeps with Christopher after months of miscommunication with Luke, Luke doesn't tell Lorelai, his fiance, that he has a daughter), seriously, they've all made mistakes and this doesn't diminish the mistakes that Jess has made and the hurt he has caused, but he also doesn't deserve to have non communicative as a personality trait. If it was seriously that big of a problem, he wouldn't have been able to grow from it that quickly (by the end of s4) and by reading self help books of all things. I also think it comes off like that because he was in the show for so little time, and that's what the writers chose to focus on.

So tldr, Jess isn't as non communicative as the show wants us to believe and he definitely isn't broody.