#How did you get the idea that I am pro endos?

[antiendosystemterms]

i am Confused

your blog is pro-endo

but when i read the url "anti endo system terms" it SOUNDS like a blog that is anti-endo and is explaining endo terms

im anti endo???????????????

I make terms for anti endos

[antiendovents]

I wish more anti endos wouldn’t ostracize, belittle, and shame pro endo systems who are traumagenic.

Like just because our views don’t align doesn’t mean I want to be hostile towards them or want to exclude them from DID/OSDD/CDD spaces.

Pro endos who have dissociative disorders are people too. They’re traumatized too. Just because they’re misguided or have a poor or different understanding of dissociative disorders doesn’t mean we should be kicking them out of our spaces and make them feel unwelcome.

Idk. Like. It just makes me feel yucky, even as an anti endo, scrolling my disorder tags and seeing how many people just. Vehemently hate and exclude and belittle pro endo systems even in the tags that we’re supposed to be able to share with them. Because I understand that pro endos are often trauma survivors themselves. And just because we have different beliefs doesn’t mean they should be harassed, excluded, and bullied out of the spaces online which are for them to connect with others who share their disorder.

I just wish that trauma-formed systems could look after each other instead of fighting tooth and nail all the time. Like. It’s okay if we have different beliefs. I’m still gonna respect them and welcome them in my spaces even if we have different ideas on what multiplicity is.

this feels like a pro endo take, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I sort of understand what you're coming from, but need I remind you that being pro endo is ableist? That supporting people who actively hurt our community isn't a good thing. In the same way you don't want pro-radqueers in the mogai community because they support people who hurt it, we don't want pro endos in the system community because they support people who hurt it. Sure they're still systems, but they're not trustworthy. Maybe they're confused, but that does not mean we should have to suffer. A majority of pro endos get very aggressive when you bring up that scientifically endos cannot exist, and therefore it makes it very hard to co-exist with them since they insist on shoving their "beliefs / ideas" (as you put it) in our faces. Maybe you don't see supporting endos as a serious thing, but to a majority of us it is a betrayal to the community. We should not be expected to interact with ableists. I'm not going to look after those who believe I am a "sysmed" and a "bigot" for believing in science.

There is so much more I can say about this, but for now I'll leave it at that. I don't care if you find it "icky" I will NEVER let pro-endos interact with me.

[thecircularsystem]

Let’s try this (a THIRD time ffs) during my 30 minute lunch:

Responding to this post, not linking because clearly this user didn’t wanna interact lol.

My response is going to be much briefer and less informative this time because I have spent way too long trying to write this, so let’s just bullet point it:

The terms CDD systems use (I’m assuming you mean parts, system, and alter) have been shared for over 40 years at this point. In reference to plurality, the Natural Multiplicity Movement (as flawed as it was) came from the CDD community. They were one and the same before the mass divide of non-disordered plurality breaking off. I’m not saying it was without its problems, obviously, but the terms have always been shared.

Moreover, these terms have been shared with IFS since its inception. Yet I don’t see anyone making a fuss about singlets calling themselves parts or systems. The terminology was taken directly from the idea of parts working together, just like the modern usage of system.

The original usage of the term “system�� wasn’t even community based; from what I saw, it was more so focused on the neurological aspect of neural pathways working together. If you want to be salty about people misusing terms, the entire community is using system in a non-medical way at this point.

Endogenic systems did create their own terminology. CDD systems co-opted the language. Collective, plural, fictive, factive, and headmate, just off the top of my head, were all coined by pro/endo systems, and many of them coined explicitly to avoid more medicalized language. Then CDD systems began using it, and anti-endo systems even yelled at endogenic systems for then using their own terminology, such as plural and fictive. If we want to be upset about terminology being “stolen,” then be upset at anti-endos as well.

Using the same terminology does not mean someone is saying they’re exactly the same. An individual who says they experience intrusive thoughts is not saying they’re OCD. An individual saying they’re hyperfixated does not mean they’re saying they have autism. An individual saying they’re a system does not mean they’re saying they have a CDD. They can make a comparison — “my system is similar to a CDD system” even — without implying they’re one-to-one.

To connect to the previous point — I see myself as similar to my singlet partner. I see myself as similar to my endogenic friends. I use the same terminology I’ve seen used for those with ADHD. I am not a singlet, endogenic, or a pwADHD. Yet I can relate to those experiences to some degree! When did people start getting mad that humans can relate to each other? /genq

Lastly; I’m pretty sure I’m working with a different definition of gaslighting here. Gaslighting, afaik, is when a person in a position of (real or perceived) power over another convinces their victim that the factual truth of an event is false, causing them to question their perception of things. Endogenic systems do not hold any power over me? Them using system terminology isn’t them challenging my perception? Genuinely so confused how this would be considered gaslighting.

[clutching-our-plurals]

Can you explain your stance on endos a bit more? /genq, we can't tell what your stance is, and we LOVE hearing about others with more nuanced stances! Plurality is too complicated of a topic to be fully anti or pro endo imo, nuance is the way to go!

Absolutely! I have no idea how long this has been sitting in our askbox collecting dust because I have no memory of getting it, but hopefully it hasn't been long! Lmao.

You are incredibly right about plurality being too complex to simply say "yeah endos exist" or "yeah no they don't," hard agree.

The nuances of our beliefs actually deviate a little from person to person in our system, some of us have our own little theories and opinions, but here are some things we all agree on:

1. Endogenic formation probably isn't a thing.

2. If the common summary of current research one day shows definitively that it is? We'd be totally chill with that.

3. regardless of whether endogenic system formation is real, harassing or fakeclaiming ANYONE is revolting behavior. I don't wanna see nobody doing that shit. Cause I'll call ya out.

4. I am civil with endos and will not invalidate their experience of plurality because my own beliefs. Will I debate with an endo? Totally, if they initiate first. If an endo says something incorrect about plurality will i correct them? Yes. Will I go and call somebody names and shit over being an Endo? No. People identifying as Endo does not affect me, or you, for that matter.

Okay. As for the more detailed thoughts, you can have those beneath the cut. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

So there seems to be two schools of thought within endogenic circles.

A. I am endogenic and disordered

B. I am endogenic and experiencing functional multiplicity.

I believe this discrepancy can simply be explained by endos not realizing that they have trauma on account of having the "don't remember, be plural" disorder. A truly shocking side effect of having a disorder that separates parts of the brain with literal amnesia, the "don't remember" disorder, is that you... don't remember!

Also, if you are familiar with the dearly beloved Elizabeth Kübler-Ross, the first stage of grief is denial. When you are traumatized at a young age, you grieve a lot of things. A childhood, your sense of normalcy, your ability to live life without fear? You grieve. That is okay. It is never wrong to grieve, my friends.

To put my own system forward as an example: I, as our host, did not know where the system came from for many, many years.

I will try and keep this vague for you, but this is a conversation about domestic abuse, please skip to the next word in RED if you do not want to read that.

As terrifying as it is, I know I may only know part of the story, even now. Before I knew what we were, I had been denying the domestic abuse I witnessed at home, and the abuse I had been subjected to myself within that home, as I had accepted those things as a normal part of my home life.

There were also great portions of my suffering that I didn't remember at all. The worst, most identifiable parts of the abuse I faced were completely wiped from my memory. How was I meant to know? Easy! I was not.

Were we endogenic because I did not remember? No, of course not. We just... didn't remember. And if you don't remember, how will you know that you don't remember?

RED

So, do endogenic systems exist? More than likely, no.

But, do they deserve disrespect and subjugation for believing they are endogenic? No, absolutely not. That's just ridiculous. Denial, is part of grief. Not remembering, is part of who and what we all are. Why would we deny someone's experience of plurality over experiencing the goddamned symptoms of it? Do y'all hear how stupid that sounds? Everyone firestarting over this is making us all look like fools.

Should endogenics be in system spaces?

Complex question, but I appreciate that about the question. Is it beneficial to endogenics to be in plural spaces, yes! The sooner they are exposed to nuanced opinions and fellow plural folks, the sooner they're likely to realize that not knowing where their system came from isn't necessarily causation, it's correlation.

Is it beneficial to traumagenics for endos to be in plural spaces? Probably not. These people are in a state of denial, and most traumagenics are looking to achieve a state of acceptance with their plurality. They don't need people in stage one holding them back.

Or maybe... the real problem isn't that at all... maybe it's more complex than just... people considering themselves traumagenic or endo...

I'm gonna spoil it for you: It's kids.

The issue isn't traumagenics vs endos, it's kids who are unable to process or form complex opinions vs adults who can. (Endo kids and traumagenic kids) Kids need to stay out of system spaces. I don't wanna see you in a space about mental health that isn't 1 on 1 with your therapist unless you are 16 years of age or older!

A. If you're younger than 13 you really can't tell all that well if you're plural or not. Your brain is still putting that shit together!

B. If you're 13 or older... you're a child! You don't need to be announcing that you are in a vulnerable mental state on the internet! You're. going. to get. Groomed. People. Are. The worst!

I would just like to say that even if you're 16 or older, you need to watch yourself in spaces like these. You are not mature. You are not the smartest in the room. You do not have the high ground, Anakin. That comes from a place of the utmost love and 20/20 hindsight, not a place of superiority or "holier than thou" attitude, I promise.

Are full grown adults (25-28 is when your brain is finished, so we'll call that full grown) also incredibly stupid sometimes? Yes. Do they have no excuse? Also yes. Will we always have people who can't form a nuanced opinion based off of fact in spaces online? Again, yes.

So what do we do about that? Block. Button. Use your block button as the Tumblr gods intended, people, please!

That's pretty much my whole stance on it. Feel free to drop more questions in my ask, no question is a dumb question, no question is too specific or too niche.

[circular-bircular]

2 Cents

(Get it? Cause it's all about change? I'm hilarious)

The response to SAS has been stunning, to say the least. Duh, of course you know what I'm talking about -- Woooahhhhh the major anti-endo is pro-endo now!!!

Only, I really don't want to frame it like that. And... I'm so relieved to see so many taking it in stride and not framing it like that.

Me and Dude have been friends for a very, very long while -- or at least it feels like a long time. DID makes it hard and all to really realize how much time passes. But I consider Dude one of my close friends at this time, and I hope people can see why. He's a person who's willing to change, albeit stubbornly, and he works so hard to be kind -- even when the world has been so much less than kind back.

And one thing I've always known is that Dude was anti-endo, but willing to compromise on those opinions and beliefs if it meant furthering the science of it all, and understanding more about all of this. As time went on, it became understanding more about CDDs than ever before, fueled less by frustration and more by genuine curiosity. It's what attracted me to this friendship in the first place.

Seeing Dude repeatedly start to say that he is pro-endo warmed my heart, but not because of the pro-endo part; it was because of the change part. Because so many people struggle with that, with the idea that they can change. Me being one of them.

It's been... so difficult trying to carve out a place in syscourse. In life. I started out pro-endo and manipulated into very nearly thinking I wasn't a DID system at all. I moved to this nebulous area where i was harassed for stepping out of line. I was neutral, I became anti-endo, neutral again -- constantly flip flopping because I didn't have anyone or anything to hold onto. I didn't get to have a community. I didn't get to be anything other than The Bad Guy.

While I was in a CDD server, I at least had that community, but even that wasn't what I wanted. Even that wasn't good for me, even if it was good in other ways. Maybe I'll find the good again someday.

But seeing this outpouring of support... As someone who now no longer uses any syscourse label (Call me what you want, I really don't care), it's a goddamn relief to see someone being accepted with open arms. It's a relief to see people being so kind and generous, both with asks and with comments. I have to be blunt and say how jealous I am, seeing the outcropping of support.

But I'm also relieved to see my experience really is far from the norm... while also acknowledging that I am incredibly braced for impact at the moment due to those experiences.

I'm an incredibly stubborn person, I'm able to admit it. I struggle to change. I'm incredibly set in my ways. But I also do change, rapidly, flipping on a dime when I think it's what the other person wants. (Honestly, part of why I appreciate Dude so much was his insistence on slowing down, getting the facts, and making an educated decision based on that). And recently with syscourse, I've felt as if I have to slam my fist into the table and shout and scream about How Pro-Endo I Am, just in case anyone was lumping me in with those anti-endos -- but then I saw how some pro-endos were acting, and I felt I couldn't say anything about it-- ugh, I'm rambling.

All that is to say, I've felt so... stunningly alone lately, even with the support of my friends. I'm alone in syscourse. I'm alone in recovery. So many of my friends are moving on, healing, growing, and... Here I am, just a silly little circle on their blog, young and stupid and dumb.

So I'm glad people are accepting Dude, not as a pro-endo, but as someone who has grown. It gives me a lot of hope for my future. A lot of hope for finding a community -- not as a pro-endo, or anti-endo, or syscourse anything.

Just as a person.

Does that make sense?

I hope other people out there, stuck in syscourse like me, feeling very alone in a very large world, can see how willing people are to extend a hand. I hope I've extended my own enough. I just... have a lot of hope for the future.

@sysmedsaresexist Thanks for helping give me that right now <3

[xenvaei]

Dissolving MIROYMON, what's next?

Hello. I'm Hail, from the mohi system. This is a bit of a late, abrupt message for all of my social medias. As of July 23rd, MIROYMON as a collective, ceases to exist. While we, the system, will never depart from labeling our work under MIROYMON for ownership reasons, we will not refer to our career and our work as being from MIROYMON. MIROYMON, to us, no longer is what we want to be known for.

Other labels such as Elmani, Shifterstars/Starryhail, Alterworldly, and Dancingpuddle are connected to this label and will also be put to rest as we do not want to be known as that either.

Addressing the elephant, of course. The previous hosts have a long winded history of misdeeds that are publicly out there for everyone to see. I am ashamed of acknowledging that, even if those were not me, I am still the current host in the same body.

We engaged in debate in online spaces actively denouncing zoophilia and pro-zoos online, specifically on Twitter. We exposed the faces/deeds of a lot of zoos in therian + furry spaces just for fun. We don't have shame in this, we just look back at it with a cringe because we ended up falling into the radqueer crowd only to crawl out more disgusted with ourselves. Interacting even closely with deplorable ideas will lead you to exploring how they think.. then getting too close and being persuaded into.. basically a cult. We left the crowd and never want to revisit it.

We engaged in syscourse, which led to many heated encounters. We had, with the intent of warning them, called someone a "token asian" because they were oblivious to how both the pro-endo and anti-endo side was using their opinion in tulpa spaces in order to fill their own community grudges. While I was, in the long run, correct that the plural community never cared about Buddhist voices.. I used my own racial trauma to say that someone was being tokenized. That's not okay, that's fucking disgusting actually. It's the fact that, no matter if it was an old host, that the same body made the active choice to type it. It's gross, and I have since stepped back from syscourse and apologized.

We engaged in transandrophobia on cohost, which lead to us getting into an argument with a trans woman. Said trans woman is a transandrophobe, but my behavior in consistently using her actions as a way to punish others and her friends for follow along was not okay. To many, I harassed this woman for days on end. To me, I made her feel unsafe on a platform she came to in order to get away from Tumblr. I wanted to make an example out of transphobia in trans communities and how rampant it was. But, I quickly realized that fighting fire with literal magma doesn't do anything but make it worse. And I made it worse by even tempting to call out people on their transandrophobia. I defended myself online, people used my wife's image as a way to demean not only my sexuality but my ideas too. I fucked it up, I tore apart relationships and I made people uncomfortable by pushing it too far.

We engaged in altersex discourse, in which we created a lot of tension for intersex individuals who either did not enjoy altersex people or did not enjoy how I worded my altersex identity and morals. What I hear tends to be along the lines of me changing definitions, co-opting experiences, allowing h-slur usage, denying my perisexness in favor of altersexness, creating uncomfortable environments for intersex people in their own tags, and being tone deaf to intersex issues. I apologize, completely. No push back, no buts or whatever. I apologize, and I won't do it. Everything that I have ever done, I will take it back and I will change to be a better ally. I don't personally feel comfortable using shi/hir pronouns for myself and will stick to hiu/hium, even if I don't have a strong connection to the set. I will restrict all usage of the h-slur in and out of my communities. I accept that I am perisex, yet I do want to show that I am altersex as well and will use altperisex to describe myself instead.

In other places, I have lot personal friends for my explosive anger and behavior. I have betrayed trust, I have made others feel uncomfortable talking to me due to my past history. I have started fights over little things, and I have been stubborn over the internet just because I didn't have the right words to express myself.

In each part, in every thing I have done to harm others, I do recognize that distancing myself from the MIROYMON label by adopting another label would look as if I am.. running from my responsibility of clearing my name.

But I do not want to clear my name, nor do I want to deny all the things people have said about me - about my system - because of me. These events are not just a year's worth of issues, these issues span to 2018 to now. It has been more than 2 years of my disgusting behavior and I am sick of myself and haunting other people and being a blight in the world of other's. I am sick of trying to change and never actually changing because I haven't had the time to build myself. I am tired of having a disorder that makes it harder to find who I really am.

So, I have decided to rebuild myself and my branding and my name. This is for the safety of my system that I am consistently putting down, but for the safety of others who have been with me on this journey and who have left me because of this. I am doing this not for me, but for everyone I have ever put in danger or even stepped on by being who I am. I no longer want to be MIROYMON, I don't want to be representing MIROYMON. I want to be someone else, and I want to start over and dissolve every aspect under MIROYMON so that I may finally sit and have a chance to become a better person.

I will still draw, I will still publish, and I will still talk about being altersex. That is how it is, I cannot take a break or simply leave. I must trial and error my way, because then I do not make money and I cannot feed myself and I cannot become a better person.

I am a bad person. I am a horrible person, and I have done horrible things and I do not deserve to still have an existence where I am happily making othrs feel unsafe and uncomfortable with me around. So I am changing, I am forcing myself to change, I am molding myself by performing good and changing names and leaving this behind so that I can still afford to heal while not hurting people anymore. I don't want anyone to tell me that I never meant harm, I need people to tell me that I am a flawed person. I need people to nitpick at my flaws, tear me apart and find the reason why I'm so compelled to start fighting and hurting people so that I can actually change.

No, therapy doesn't work anymore. No, medication never soothed it. The only thing that is currently changing me is HRT, and I realized that I've been working my ass off to be better while on it. So, I'm sticking to HRT and disappearing into a new name with a new look, a new hope, a new joy, a new reason to live. With respect for people, without hurting people, without fighting or trying to be better. I just need to go away and never come back to these names. I need to restart and become better.

What's next?

I'm going to change the name of all my social media. We have not chosen a replacement name, but we will and we will change. I no longer want to run away from my mistakes and my problems, so that means ending them now with a new courage to become a better person.

I will most likely take a break from writing and art and pursue offline activities. My mother recently got surgery, so I am here helping her until September. She can't do basic activities without pain. I can't wither away alongside her.

I'm going to stop being so extreme. I'm still going to be goofy and a fantasizer, but I need to calm down. I just need to stop taking thins seriously. I need not provoke my anger and relapse on destructive behaviors.

I'm respecting the wishes of people who genuinely don't like me. I'm leaving, I'm stopping, I'm changing, and I hope the scars I gave you heal and leaves no marks. I am not a perfect person, no one is, and I am not criminal.. but I am emotionally draining and hurting others.

I'm gonna spend time in objectum spaces, I'm gonna love my wife and talk about it. I'm going to enjoy being objectum and do more in objectum spaces.

I'm going to work on altersex experiences and my community. I'm going to not step over intersex spaces and their experiences and I'm going to focus on my own.

This is a long post, but I wanted to end it with something nice.

I'm sorry, and I don't know what to say but I did this to myself. I thought I was doing everything right and that when things like this happen, when people lie about you, I thought that fighting back was the first answer. But it digs the hole under me, and it makes me fall into the behaviors I exhibit out of fear of messing it up.

I'm taking steps to ensure that I move on, that you move on, and that this shit stops here. Be safe, find peace, enjoy life.

[sophieinwonderland]

The anon you answered who just wants everyone to chill out and live a better life —

Yeah, I knew. I was also a pro-endo who witnessed the… ever so eloquently named “cock gate” and spoke out about it. 🤦‍♀️

I’m happy to see a recent apology for those actions.

Maybe I was the only one out of the loop. LOL! Imagine if literally everybody knew that except me, just sitting here trying to figure out why this person I didn't know hated me so much all this time.

Your message did give off... Vibes... Of somebody who would be in the know. You know, the syscourse Illuminati. /Hj 😋

It does make all of their noble claims for this vendetta and their doc come off more as post-hoc rationalizations to me.

Prior to what they're calling "cock gate", they had sent in a friendly joke ask to this blog and I responded kindly.

Then a couple weeks later was when they started their dick gate, I tried to DM them to get them to rein it in a bit. Then they just double down so I made my callout post telling people to block them, and called them friendless and compared them to a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.

Realizing all of this, I also recall other things. It was THEN then that they started complaining about my influence over the pro-endo community. They made numerous posts about it over that period following my callout post of them.

And in the apology for their cock gate, they mentioned that a lot of that incident was spurred by a trauma response to things that were going on in their own life. With all of this added context, I can see how they might have a strong reaction to somebody who they used to like (at least enough to send asks to) coming out and saying all of those cruel things about them during a period where they were particularly vulnerable.

It actually explains why they are how they are, even to the point of being triggered by anybody who even reminds them of me. I wouldn't even be surprised if the connection of this incident being a trauma response also fueled the idea of me being an abuser in their mind, causing them to associate me with whatever abuse they were going through at the time.

But it also highlights just how ridiculously petty this entire thing has been.

Their entire grudge appears to be rooted in a callout post I made about them, telling people to block them for their behavior and how it was harming both the pro-endo and anti-endo communities.

The irony is so thick you would need a chainsaw to carve through it.

If I was a better person then I might use this newfound understanding to try to mend fences. But I'm not. Besides, I've already seen how they react to people trying to mend fences with the Nox incident. Understanding does not actually make me more sympathetic.

It was nice of them to finally apologize for the people they hurt through that incident. Even if it does just seem like it was build up to another attack against me and Nox, who they ended up causing to delete their syscourse blog.

I do wonder if they actually remember when it was that they started hating me. Do they actually believe themselves when they say that this is all about how "dangerous" I supposedly am? It would be fascinating to know the story they tell themselves in their own head to justify continuing this stupid vendetta.

[sysmedsaresexist]

The entire point of trauma related dissociation, at any level, is to divorce yourself from the event-- to separate yourself from the hurt and minimize the impact of the event. At worst, you forget the events completely.

No, I lied, at worst, you get fucking stabbed and go, "that wasn't me :3 I'm good bro, really. Hardly remember it and it's the most unimportant memory in the entire bank. Hold on, someone is having an emotion for some reason, ignore them, no idea what their problem is-- whoops, now I'm front locked. What a bunch of dramatic bitches."

(it's us, we're bitches)

It bothers me when pro/endo systems say things like, "we don't feel DID fits us because we're so much more than the events that caused our system."

Like... Okay? So does everyone?

That's the point???

How does that stop you from having DID? Why does it matter?

You are allowed to involve religion and cultural/personal beliefs into your systemhood, you're allowed to have strong personal beliefs about reasons for formation, but how does that make you different from any of the rest of us?

"Endogenic" alters can appear in DID systems, because the mechanism that allows you to dissociate in the first place is still trauma. You're not special because you're mixed origin, that's actually totally normal but no one wants to hear that they're just like everyone else with problems.

Meanwhile, you're saying shit that is actually offensive and you're so blind to it.

You're allowed to say that you don't like the medical model applied to you, or that you don't feel it fits you, and that's perfectly acceptable, but to say that it's because you're special and different, and that it's not just a personal choice is... Painful to see. You're making a direct comparison to people with DID and the experience, but putting yourself a step above us because of your personal beliefs about your self.

It puts the other side of the coin, those who find use in the medical model, beneath you. You're not saying, "I don't feel the medical model represents me," you're saying, "I'm different from those people with DID," and the connotation behind that statement matters.

Just because you're able to apply personal beliefs to your systems and alters to give it some greater meaning doesn't mean the rest of us are incapable of that.

Do you really think medicalized DID systems are over here just drowning in trauma and self understanding, clutching the DSM to our chests?

Because let me tell you, I still have some very deep beliefs about my system.

I am more than what created my system.

We are more than the trauma that is the basis for our existence, however far removed we may feel from those events.

I love my system.

I'm happy.

I'm successful, with minimal dysfunction.

I am still someone with DID.

The ones talking about medicalizing my beliefs and not accepting my personal interpretations are not doctors-- it's fucking systems online going, "I'm so much more than that so I don't have DID UwU 🌸"

Okay, so I'm not??

You're telling this to other young, vulnerable systems, who are still at a point that they can very easily be lead into belief systems that can further divorce them from their trauma and the understandable reactions to it.

If the medical model doesn't suit you, great, say that, but don't "other" the people who find it representative of them. Don't put them beneath you.

Think about the language you're using and how it comes across.

[sillyandvile]

⁺ ⛧ ﹒SILLYANDVILE ! — ˚ ☠️ ⌢

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🦷﹕‹𝟹﹕I love talking about Scream! This includes the Scream’d musical and fanfics such as Debaser. I also like talking about medical human anatomy, slashers, old movies, cannibalism (metaphor for love), diseases, and psychology.

🥩﹕‹𝟹﹕I’ll try and tag stuff:

#yapped sorry - rambles/text posts.

#woods scribbles - my art.

🍖﹕‹𝟹﹕DNI:  -> Basic dni criteria, ed/sh picture blogs, Endogenic/non traumagenic “systems”, Pro/Neutral contact paraphiles, proshippers, TCC, Drama starters. You get the idea.

‼️﹕‹𝟹﹕erm um uh I’m part of a DID system, endo “systems” DNI. I WILL kill and eat u <3

[queer-otherkin]

Warning: syscorse

Uhhh sooo syscorse. Can someone explain it to me?/gq It can be here or on dms.

Questions down below.

(I'm posting it here so I can actually get an answer, because I have a bit of a following here.)

Here are my questions

-why are endos bad?

-why do people hate endos so much?

-how are they mocking systems?

-Am I anti or pro endo? (My beliefs are down bellow)

Background about me:

I've been trying to keep kind of "I don't want to talk about it bc I don't understand it" and trying to remove myself from it immediately.

But I do want to understand it. At the same time, everytime I go to the tags, it's just everyone yelling at each other and I don't understand anything. And I don't want to be yelled at either lol. I'm actually pretty scared to post this.

My beliefs till now:

-Can they exist?

Ok, uh so, I don't think it matters if I think if endos are real or not? Like, it's not my identity, I don't know them. And that's why I want to know if and how they are hurting the DID/OSDD comunity.

-Are they fakers?

I personally believe they're not. But you can think that they're not real and faking all you want, but have some manners. Don't go out invalidating others. You wouldn't do it irl, so don't do it online.(This sounds like I'm mad but I'm not)

"They fake having DID" but they never said that though...?/gq isn't the term "endo" made to differentiate them from disordered systems?

My opinion on them rn:

I've asked around irl a bit, and it turns out a bunch of teenagers don't give out the best concise answers. So the closest I've gotten to an answer is:

They need their own spaces. traumagenic systems want their own spaces and I think that's valid, sure, they can, and should intersect sometimes, but not as much as they do now. That's why I considered myself sort of anti endo until now. Idk if I'm anti endo tho??? What does my belief classify as?

we can't prove if they're real or not, because studies don't really 100% discard the idea of them being real. As far as I understand, they just haven't done research around endos. They don't fit in the research, because the researchers don't think about endos when doing the research.

And I don't think it's really your, or my space to say what someone is or isn't. If someone calls themselves an endo, but are actually a did system, who cares?

"But they need help because they have trauma!!" yeah!! I agree, but even traumagenic beings don't get help sometimes. Endos can be in treatment and still identify as endogenic. Idk, in the end, everyone has their own process and recovery time.

[allochkasrecovery]

Radqueers, and why I don't support them

I get asked the same question every time I talk about it; “What are radqueers?” Radqueers are people who are pro-all-paraphilias, pro-all-transIDs, pro-MUDs/MUSs, pro-endo, pro-good faith, and each have a differing contact stance. Some things I have noticed with radqueers is a lot are inherently anti-recovery.

What are all of these things?

Paraphilias are atypical attractions. This includes a full list I am linking here. Paraphilias are typically mental disorders. Even though many radqueers refuse to agree their’s specifically is.

TransIDs are identities where one wants to be perceived a different way then they “bodily are,” or are currently perceived. This topic is very difficult to explain. In the radqueer community, people will use “cis” as a way to say how they already perceive themself. To explain better, a lot of radqueers are plural or transplural. When their alters are introjected, they may prefer a label of cis to identify with source. The “trans” label has a lot of complications with it. There are several ways one might identify as “trans-something.” I personally have found it easier to ask each person individually. However, the definition I settled on as a radqueer is, “however you perceive you are not yet.” Radqueers would not like this very much. They prefer the term, “how someone identifies as.” There are tons of other prefixes. Each with different meanings. This post would be much longer if I spent more time explaining. Perhaps it will be another post.

MUD/MUS stands for “Medically unrecognized disorder,” and, “Medically unrecognized sickness.” These are some more labels radqueers use to describe their identity and experience.

Pro-endo is believing in the existence of endogenic systems. Endogenic systems are systems that are formed for reasons other than trauma. This does not make them have no trauma. It means that the alters in their head weren’t originally formed because of trauma.

Pro-good-faith is typically the belief in the validity of contradictory labels. These labels are considered contradictory due to the names of them. Example, “Gaybian.” A gay lesbian.

Contact stance has to do with belief if paraphilias can be acted upon consensually.

Anti-recovery is the idea where you do not want to recover.

Now, we should distinguish why it is inherently harmful to be a part of the radqueer community. When radqueers state they are pro-all-transIDs, they typically are also pro-transitioning for most. There are a lot of radqueers where I saw they were anti-transitioning for transhateful. However, transharmful was okay. Radqueers commonly claim it’s okay as long as it’s consensual. Normally conabuse relationships happen between transharmfuls and transharmed. This is inherently harmful as most people identify with transharmed because of trauma reasons. Instead of taking the time to recover, they choose to take the time to get worse. Which makes it anti-recovery. Conabuse is still inherently harmful to anyone. The difference between BDSM and conabuse is conabuse never ends. BDSM is only for sex acts. It’s a kink thing. Conabuse is constant and fully abusive. It never gives you time to settle down. You are always waiting for the pain. It is okay to have atypical dysphoria. It is not okay to transition to it. I could even state that identifying with it makes it harder to heal. Therefore, it is anti-recovery again.

I’m not against every transID. Do not get me wrong. I do not see a problem with transplural. However, I do see a problem with transDID. DID is inherently a trauma disorder. It is caused by trauma. This means people could identify with this because they think their trauma is not enough. Identifying with something because you don’t think your trauma is enough is harmful. It messes with you mentally. You are enough. You are valid. Another thing would be how you would transition, you would have to give yourself trauma. Again, this is very harmful to oneself. I promise, there are ways to cope with your trauma and mental illness other than hurting yourself and others. Fucking with your mentality will only make it worse.

I would not consider myself anti-transID, rather transID-critical. I am okay with several IDs. The ones I do not consider harmful. This includes but is not limited to, transprofession, transhobby, transpower, transcharacter, transfashion, and transspecies. These are currently all I can think of at the moment.

I have a complex idea on transracial. For one, I believe the term diaracial was much better. Transrace is a term for people who were adopted into a couple from a different race. I have actually looked into race as a social construct. I have some information here. Race is a social construct due to the fact there are not biological differences between races. (Here.) If we were to say there were, that would be racist. Ethnicity is what is based in culture. Not race. Example, all people of black descent are commonly placed in the same category. However, this can be people from Africa, Indigenous Australians, and Melanesians. There are even more. This is just what I found off of one site. Diaracial is very complex. Some are races while others are ethnicities. I still question if transracial is wrong. I wish I could confidently say it was. Most of the arguments I see are, “Well it harms the real people of x. You can’t transition into being apart of all the hurt they receive.” Okay, but women have been discriminated forever. They still are today. So, then it’s wrong to be transgender? I know people will get mad I brought up that comparison. However, there is no other one that is considered correct.

Now, something I have questioned is, “Why would someone turn to radqueerism?” Mental illness. It’s a pit of the mentality ill. They’re all looking for reasons as to why they are the way they are. I believe dysphoria is some sort of mental thing. It could potentially be symptoms of something bigger, maybe even nothing. Not wanting to be better is a huge sign something is wrong. In multiple countries, gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness. How does one treat this illness? Finding a way to cope. For some, the only answer is to transition. However, what do we do when it harms them or other people? They can’t transition then. I think personally that people should see therapists before they decide what to do.

I think a lot of these takes will be taken very poorly. However, I would love to learn why. I would love to see a discussion here. Very open to learning other people’s ideas. Please take the time to fully read my arguments in this post. Otherwise, I will not engage. To me this topic is very interesting. It’s one of my hyperfixations.

[cipher-gyps]

Hello world of tumbr.

I am Cypress (or Cipher) and I’m the co-host of a DID system. Bodily 19.

Fictive of (reformed) Bill Cipher which is pretty neat. Mass following systems rn because I’m desperate for sys moots

Agender aroace he/it

I like birds, reptiles, bugs, oddities, drawing.

I gen don’t know what else to say.. gravity falls fictives pls interact !

More active in insta/discord. New to tumbr and I don’t know how to use it, lol

Interact pls ;

- systems

- 17+

- bird, reptile, and bug enjoyers

Dni ; ( block and move on, don’t argue about these pls )

- under 17 (you can follow but we won’t be friends sorry <\3 )

- pro/dark/com-ship

- zoo/pedo/anything along those lines

- endo systems

- anti-recovery

- if u want to me my friend just to date me I’ll genuinely throw you into the sun

Bfyf:

- Other than DID were also diagnosed with ADHD, autism, bpd, and ocd. I try my hardest to manage these things but sometimes I need to step back and take a break. If I leave you on delivered or seen, I will get back to you and it’s nothing you did!

- I don’t tend to “act” like my source. If for some odd reason, this upsets you, then I’d suggest looking for someone else.

- I don’t mean to sound dry ever. I’m simply just nervous around new people.

- I can’t believe this has to be said but I am *not* looking for any sort of romantic relationship online. I don’t mind if you have /r mems with me, or if you talk about it, though! Memories are a totally separate thing. I just want to be fully transparent that I am not interested in having a romantic partner.

- I’m ok with things like platonic pet names and jokingly flirting, I see these as fully platonic. But it’s always a good idea to ask first!

- I am very passionate about my interests, I will ramble about them.

- I struggle understanding tones from time to time, tone tags are appreciated but not required.

#systems #system #did system #did sys #gravity falls fictive #looking for moots #endos dni

[thecircularsystem]

Syscourse ask:

What is the syscourse stance of each Stardew Valley bachelor/bachelorette?

OKAY, SO! I am rolling with the idea that the farmer is a system, origins unknown, so likely identifying as quoigenic. It's clear they have a few problems with their systemhood, but they aren't looking for any diagnosis or anything -- just needed to get away from Joja and Zuzu, into a far more relaxing area where they could think about some things.

BACHELORS:

ALEX: His ass would not have an official stance. This man is thick of heart and far too dumb of ass to have any brain power devoted to syscourse. If someone else tried to label him, they'd likely settle on "Pro-endo, but... also confused but got the spirit." He would be fully supportive of the farmer being whatever -genic, but he would also hear quoigenic and go, "Hey, I work on my quads all day! Guess that makes us both quadgenic, huh?"

ELLIOTT: This man is pro-endo, but he's so, so ableist about it. Like, I'm so sorry, but the instant this man encounters quoigenic, he has instantly determined that there is nothing more beautiful, and that everyone should use that label, because it doesn't matter what origins you are! Nobody should care! What matters is the inherent beauty in suffering and survival, and how systems who are open to the world and all of it's nuanced perspectives are clearly superior. It... would take a bit of actual internet usage and encountering other systems (and research into CDDs) for him to completely 180 on that, and likely go way too far down the medical route. It doesn't help that I have a lot of headcanons about Elliott having trauma and dissociative issues. Lots of internalized ableism babey!

HARVEY: He really does not care about origins. If he had to have a stance, he would say, "I'm pro-people getting the help they need." He is far, far more focused on the farmer's disordered status and if they need help with their plurality. He's incredibly well read on CDDs and would be able to direct farmer toward resources as needed for various symptoms, if they were part of the equation. After farmer opens up about being a quoigenic system for the first time, Harvey immediately did extensive research into the terminology and finds plurality fascinating -- but also well, well beyond his paygrade. I also think he has some doubts sometimes about it, but is 100% of the opinion that people should be able to conceptualize themselves however they'd like, and that origin labels don't matter -- what matters is people getting what they need to live happy, healthy lives.

SAM: "System? Yeah, I use garageband-" Anyways, yeah, similarly to Alex, he doesn't have any opinion on it. At first. Sam is really contingent on if the farmer romances him or not. If the farmer is not romancing him, he just respects their label if he can remember it. If they ARE romancing him, however, he does some research into systemhood. I think he starts out anti-endo. Very much under the belief that it's CDD systems in denial, and would really want farmer to go get medical care in Zuzu for their disorder. I think it would lead to a lot of arguments with the farmer, and I think Sam would eventually apologize and come to the conclusion that they know themselves best. After marriage, some of his dialogue would indicate that he's been looking into more system stuff, and even considering things like creating headmates himself. (He never would -- he's not motivated enough for it. But it's an entertaining thought, and he's silly about it.)

SEBASTIAN: Silently and weirdly anti-endo. He raises a brow at the quoigenic thing, but he figures it's similar to queer identity labels, and that it's people figuring themselves out. I don't think he really believes in any scientific ideas behind it, but he fully accepts that farmer doesn't know or care about their origins, and I think he'd be down to believe it's a spiritual thing. He would respect their label of quoigenic, and would never ever mention to their face that he 100% believes them to just be a CDD system. He hasn't looked into most of this, but he's seen the discourse online, and he knows enough to know that telling people what to do only ends in rebellion and shitty ass people in your inbox 24/7. I think after years of living in the valley he'd be more open to the idea of non-traumagenic plurality, but genuinely I don't think he could give a single shit. You do you. He has his own ideas, but those aren't important, given that he's not a system himself, so he doesn't have a leg in that game.

SHANE: I think Shane honestly relates wayyyyy too much to plurality. He's not plural, but I think that he likely does IFS therapy with his therapist. Something about breaking down who he is into manageable parts, and learning to love the "stupid, incapable, pathetic" parts of himself... I think, at the start of moving to the valley, Shane didn't pay any attention to that shit -- just enough to get the farmer's name and pronouns right, most of the time -- but after starting therapy, I think Shane would start to reach out more and talk to farmer about their experiences. He's pretty shocked at how much they line up. I think Shane and the farmer would get into some really interesting conversations about trauma and the definition of systemhood. This would, however, usually end up with Shane dipping out because it strikes a nerve at some point. In the end, I think he's endo-neutral -- he wouldn't give a shit enough to have a label anyways, and he would call himself neutral if forced to label himself. "People actually care about it that much?... The only thing I care about that much is Marnie, Jas, and the chickens. And maybe a Joja Cola..."

BACHELORETTES:

ABIGAIL: Pro-endo, for sure. She's seen it online but doesn't know a lot about it, but she asks farmer about it extensively. She also apologizes if she asks too many questions. She's not like... about to go to any rallies or anything, or start shit online, but she is 100% supportive, inclusive, and down with all good-faith identities. She would have hesitations sometimes, but she knows those are her hangups and nobody else's to deal with. She's worried occasionally that people are ignoring deeper issues... but she also recognizes how little she knows about the topic. Even with how much the farmer has informed her, she knows she doesn't have enough know-how to tell someone their own experiences.

EMILY: Bold of you to assume she's not an endogenic system. No, genuinely, she would 100% be endogenic, and just sort of figured this was the norm. I think she's a system who views herself all as one person, but in that she works together to be Emily. I don't think she feels any pressure to identify separately. She's got a lot of spiritual headmates, but also some she was born with, and numerous walk-ins who come and go. When the farmer shows up and starts telling the town, she's so excited to meet someone else who experiences this!!! Definitely a few conversations have to happen where they compare experiences and realize how different/alike they are. I will also say, Emily 1000% has made her own terminology and everything; she found some stuff online, but she doesn't have any of the terminology (and most of the tech ability) to find system communities. The instant she does... I mean, she does plug "pro-endo" in fancy aesthetic lettering into her pinned post, but she deletes any and all syscourse related asks and ignores the tag completely.

HALEY: I know a lot of people are going to assume she's anti-endo, but genuinely, she's so syscourse-unconcerned that if syscourse blew up, she wouldn't see the light from the explosion for 10 years at least. "Syscourse?... Oh, wait. I think Emily has mentioned it once or something." The most she knows is from the farmer or Emily, and she just, frankly, cannot give a single fuck about it. However, I do think she's supportive of Emily and of the farmer both. Just in a very "whatever, I do not care" way. The only time that it would ever matter is if, like. Hold on, an ENTIRE scenario is playing in my head. Emily walks in, a bit down, Haley is like, "What, did your chakras not align properly today or something?" And Emily is like, "No, someone was just being a jerk online to me for my system." And Haley would be casual about it, and later go to the computer and send the dick a scathing anon that absolutely questions their ability to reason, humanity, and fashion sense. Then never look back, bored as shit at this stupidity.

LEAH: The anti-endo to pro-endo pipeline. She would research it after farmer comes to town and would research CDDs in her spare time. I feel like she buys a book online (secondhand) out of interest to read in her free-time. The more she researches, the more she judges the farmer for faking a disorder, but eventually, she dives into endogenic plurality more and realizes she's kind of being a dick. She goes through the typical pipeline: Not Real -> Maybe real but almost always a CDD -> Must just be a spiritual thing that I don't personally believe in -> Maybe it just doesn't matter. After knowing the farmer for awhile, Leah settles on, "Not my business." She stumbles now and then with the language, terminology, and pronouns, but she does apologize if she's been unintentionally offensive, and does apologize directly in a cutscene about not believing the farmer when they first showed up. (To gain the most hearts, farmer must select, "We all make mistakes sometimes. It's how we grow." To which she turns to the phone where Kel calls her in another cutscene and goes, "Yeah. Some of us more than others. Thanks for listening, [74][163]." She doesn't use a label at any point, but if she got dragged into syscourse, she would say she's pro-endo.

MARU: This is the one I feel the weakest with... Genuinely, Maru has always been a weird character to me. She feels so much younger than the other romanceable characters, to me. I think she would be interested to learn about it, with no stance or understanding of it at the start. In talking to the farmer, she would be most interested in learning about the psychological and scientific aspects of plurality. I think she would rant to Sebastian about how it doesn't make sense, scientifically, and he just nods along and smokes, and Maru eventually sorts out her feelings to be the exact opposite each time. She flip-flops on stance a lot. At the end of the day, I think she's mostly accepting of farmer's status as a quoigenic system, but hates that she can't undertstand it. I think talking it through with Demetrius helps her back off of Farmer though, since she realizes how infuriating it can be after talking with him, and him understanding even less than her.

PENNY: She would find it weird, but would accept it pretty easily. She wouldn't use the label pro-endo herself, but she would be endo safe. She's confused by the identity labels and by those who enjoy it -- it sounds miserable to her, especially since she's a traumatized individual who struggles with her selfhood as it is. She's not a system, but she does struggle with dissociation and depersonalization a lot, and she's been in denial for a long while. Farmer would make her confront some of that, however unintentionally, which does make her uncomfortable... but she's also not one to be dismissive of others, and she doesn't want the new farmer feeling unwelcomed. She's also curious so she would try to read up on it, but unfortunately, the valley museum does not have books on plurality. I think as time went on, Pam would try to get her some books on identity and things because Pam's trying her best, and this is how Penny realizes she's bisexual.

BONUS ROUND:

PIERRE: He would make jokes about the farmer "splitting the cost amongst themselves." Yes, it is painful each time he makes the joke.

JODI: Stumbles over pronouns in so many different dialogue options, but is accepting.

DEMETRIUS: He's incredibly autistic about it, same as with everything, y'know? But he's also incredibly frustrated that he's not sure how to be respectful.

ROBIN: She is fully accepting and doesn't actually struggle with it at all. I think she has a lot of conversations with Demetrius about it late at night where he can express his frustration to her safely.

GEORGE: He hates every aspect of it and refuses to deal with his prejudices until like. 6 hearts with the farmer. Once reaching maximum hearts, he would apologize for treating the farmer inappropriately.

EVELYN: GRANDMA LOVES FARMER AND MAKES THEM COOKIES IN THE SHAPE OF LITTLE GINGERBREAD MEN DECORATED AS THEIR HEADMATES.

CLINT: Does not care, will not care unless one of the headmates is DTF, at which case, he is wildly uncomfortable.

CAROLINE: Apologetic for Pierre, stumbles now and then but for the most part connects with the farmer. Discusses dissociative episodes with the farmer during the two-heart cutscene at her bush. Caroline has some dissociative amnesia and I don't think that's ever actually going to be resolved.

DWARF: Farmer doesn't even tell them that they're a system. Dwarf just looks and knows. "Ahh, just like my brothers."

GUS: "Buy anything you like! I can't imagine having that many mouths to feed." For some reason, this does not piss off the farmer as much as it does when Pierre says similar things.

JAS: Comprehends it, but asks a lot of questions. Do they each have their own wardrobe, does it hurt to be multiple people. She would offer to do farmer's hair for them depending on who's out. "You can borrow my doll's brush."

VINCENT: His ass does not care. He has worms to catch.

KENT: Met someone like the farmer in the war. "Good soldier, with a good family. He went home early. I hope he's good, wherever he is. Or they are?"

KROBUS: Exclusively refers to the farmer with they/them pronouns, mentioning hearing them talk to "their selves" in the past.

LEO: Is curious if farmer has any birds in their head. "Maybe that's why you are so good with my family!"

LEWIS: Confused and trying his best, but does not have the understanding. He asks if there needs to be multiple ceremonies for the marriage, and researches how many taxes he can legally charge the farmer.

LINUS: Fully accepting, very gracious for the farmer's presence in town!

MARNIE: I don't think anything really changes with her! I think she just accepts it and does her best to use the correct things. She slips up very rarely.

PAM: Cracks a joke or two, but does apologize if she's ever said something she can recognize is offensive.

SANDY: Honestly is just glad someone is there to relate to her girlfriend back in the valley. "Thank you oh so much for helping Emily find herselves."

WILLY: One of his dialogue lines compares the farmer to the sea, about how it's made of so many moving parts, but all we see is one thing. Nowhere else does he ever address farmer's systemhood.

WIZARD: Tries to suggest magical reasons for the farmer's system. It is all silly.

And lastly: Grandpa.

He totally knew, and at the final cutscene with him, he talks about how proud he is of "you all" for the work the farmer has done on the farm.

[system-of-a-feather]

I am genuinely gonna say this even though it's syscourse (and that I prefer to keep syscourse off my blog) cause 1) its related to my views and recovery which is what this blog is about and 2) I feel people might actually hear me out as an ex-anti-endo and DID* system, but being anti-endo (talking about "endogenics existing" not any larger criticisms on individuals or communities; thats a different topic) really perpetuates some unproductive mentalities around alters and multiplicity that really honestly is very healing to let go of and stop worrying about.

Like even just from a solely selfish point of view and not a "don't judge how people get by in life and what works for them" - holding so tightly onto this idea that being multiple parts, people, identities etc and operating life like that as this sacred, unique, and trauma-defined experience just really holds you in a place of saying that "I am significantly different due to trauma and I am inherently not the same as a 'normal person' because of the trauma" which I GET it, its true trauma does change you like that, it has changed brain circuitry and there are things those of us who have Been Through it at a young age will understand.

But like... I know it might be hard to see and understand depending on where in healing you are, but interacting with yourself as multiple parts and individuals - while not traditional and orthodox - is honestly.... not new or that special? Especially as the dissociative barriers lessen, the idea that there is a straight and clear divide between "multiple" and "singlet" really starts to be debunked.

In my opinion, it's hard to see the difference between a person who has multiple parts due to trauma BUT recovered to lower dissociative barriers, and someone who has multiple parts because they are a multifaceted person BUT interacts with themselves in an Internal Family Systems manner because that helps them, and someone who has multiple parts that they choose to interact with as separate as it gives them company, insight, and comfort.

And personally? I think thats really beautiful honestly. Even though our brain has been royally fucked by trauma from an insanely young age to the point that it segregated parts to survive, it's not inherently anything that is "proof" that we are broken or changed significantly from any other person or human.

Of course there is nuance, I do think that especially earlier stage recovery DID systems really should have the option for their own space and what not, because the "going through it" experience of DID is so so so so so extremely different than that of someone who is late stage recovery, at functional multiplicity, and/or a system that is endogenic and/or operates within themselves as multiple for non-trauma related reasons.

But honestly? We stopped being anti-endo largely cause the more we recovered, the less and less sense and significance it held.

Also, do not argue "science!!!!" at me. I'll ignore it cause again, I used to be a feverous anti-endo. I know the texts, I've read them, I love reading research papers.

((Usual disclaimer: while we are generally / vaguely pro-endo / endo-safe we very rarely interact with the community due to lack of interest and limited time in our life (we aren't online enough) so we have limited awareness on how things work there and unspoken social rules; we are not In The Endo community, we just think they deserve to have their space and designated shared spaces. If we said anything that is Bad Rhetoric or what not, I apologize as I am not the most versed in endo-community talk))

((*DID = Dissociative System in general, I don't care for discourse regarding DID and if that is inherently trauma or not and any interprettation - in this post - beyond 'a system with notable dissociative issues and a dissociative disorder' is up to the person reading))

[circular-bircular]

Miscellaneous Thoughts

Alright, now that I’ve sat for a bit with my thoughts, got food, and destressed some…

Thoughts are going under a cut. This is all just ramblings and musings in regards to syscourse. Don’t take it too seriously.

I am sick and tired of the “sides of syscourse” bullshit. There aren’t sides. The sides are completely arbitrarily decided by those who tout themselves as leaders of the community, and if they don’t do so themselves, they are held up as paragons by those who regurgitate their disgusting displays in attempts at coherent thought.

I do mean that in regards to “all sides.” There are some of those who follow me who sicken me with how they attempt to interpret my words.

But then there are those who also engage with conversation, when possible. There are those who attempt to further conversations. And there’s those who are just trying their best, to understand or to learn more.

I’m… frustrated. Mostly that I can’t exist without this. It’s my entire disorder. I can either exist openly online as a DID system while participating in syscourse, or I can’t be online as a DID system. I can’t have a blog about my experiences without having to bring Endogenic systems into it, in some way.

I see my endogenic friends struggling right now due to fakeclaiming, and that’s hell. But I also see endogenic systems saying, “anti-endos have no idea what it’s like, having people tell you each day that they hate you or that you don’t exist!” And I know they mean me. Because they believe anti-endo means CDD.

I’m a CDD system. I’ve got DID. I struggle with it. And each and every day, I see more and more people who are trying to punch at the anti-endos doing things that directly impact me, as someone who isn’t a fucking anti-endo. As someone who isn't even pro-endo anymore. I'm not anti or pro anything! I'M JUST TRYING TO FUCKING EXIST.

The ToSD is real and valid, regardless of who participated in the writing and popularization of it. There’s plenty of research that supports it. Attacking the ToSD is not attacking anti-endos. It’s attacking CDD systems.

DID is a trauma only disorder. You cannot have DID without having repeated childhood trauma. You do not need to hate your system or be disordered by your plural aspects of self to have DID, and anyone saying otherwise is ignoring even the DSM. Attacking DID diagnostic criteria is not attacking anti-endos. It's attacking CDD systems.

Anyone, at all, who harasses anyone else, is either a troll, or hurting. They aren’t fucking evil. They aren’t irredeemable. They’re certainly a damn sight more than a fucking parasite — how in the goddamn insurmountable levels of hell do you think it’s appropriate to compare living, breathing human beings to parasites, and deem them worse and lesser? What gives you the right to treat others like this?

For fucks goddamn sake, I just want to live. I just want to survive with this disorder online. I want to talk about my experiences. But every single goddamn time I’ve tried, I get caught in this loop.

First, it was pro-endos, insisting I was valid while gaslighting me and harassing me into thinking I didn’t have goddamn trauma.

Then, it was anti-endos, insisting my hurt was valid while demonizing the pro-endos who hurt me first.

Then it was all of you fuckers, every single person in syscourse — yes, even you — who perpetuated these cycles. And the thing is, I’m not blaming you, I’m not upset with you; it’s just fucking impossible to avoid at this point!!

And the thing is, I don’t want to go. I don’t want to leave this place. I’ve spent a goddamn decade trying to carve out a hole for myself to hide in here. This became my home for so goddamn long because I didn’t have one of my own. And god, I have made a lot of connections here, people who I would miss. People who I DO miss.

But you all make it so damn difficult. Pro-endos hurting me more each day. Anti-endos hurting my friends and taking the battling gun approach to fighting ableism.

I’m so tired.

I’m just. So goddamn tired.

I think that’s all I’ve got in me right now. That’s all the energy I can muster for this. At least it’s words that count toward my daily total, right?

[wondercourse]

Hi. Excuse an anecdote, I just started thinking about something related to my fucking rollercoaster of an experience re: being Wonder. This isn't going to really have a point more than just being me sharing my experiences and thoughts.

Something weird that I'm realizing is that…I think the people I used to spend time with (online, in syscourse spaces) in high school would genuinely hate to see me not only openly questioning the nature of the plurality of a part of my system, but doing so in a way that's not fearful of it possibly not being traumagenic.

I definitely was, at first, because I am always learning. Even going into this account having been pro-"stop dehumanizing people into their stances", I was still learning. I am still learning. I still have a lot to learn. I was a hardcore anti-endo, and in the spaces I was in, your worth was pretty much determined by if you were being a system "right". Even after leaving these spaces, I carried these ideas with me subconsciously.

I kept thinking about how it'd affect how people saw me and the legitimacy of my words. I made a post around when I first made this blog about how identifying this layer as quoigenic—a term that I still vibe with but choose not to use for reasons mentioned later—meant that people were labeling me in their heads, and I claimed that it didn't bother me.

It did. Not as much as it would've when I was in high school (god, I should NOT have been involved in syscourse back then, still being in an actively traumatizing situation was not doing me any favors), but it did.

This isn't to say that I've completely solved the problem. I spent six years in echo chambers, being told that the experience I'm having right now made people inherent enemies to those with CDDs. There are even people who, alarmingly, think that traumagenic systems who are pro-endo (or lean that way) are just claiming such so they can get in with the antis and change their opinions—which, by the way, is a take I saw TODAY. Changing one's stance is already scary enough as is. Finding out that you could also, in part, be the antithesis of something you believed for half a decade? That these parts of you could be tge "enemy" of your own disorder, in that outdated view? Yikes!

However, the discovery of Wonder, the reaction of my treatment team to Wonder, and learning more about the infinite nuance of plurality as it relates to CDDs through this has made me realize that it doesn't matter what people think of me or my situation. Because…it's mine. And it is what it is.

I'm slowly but surely gaining confidence in the worth of my words within syscourse and sysconversation. In the background, there's a little bit of trying to figure out what's going on with us as Wonder, but it's in less of a "HOLY SHIT WHAT IF THIS ISN'T TRAUMAGENIC?!" way and more of a "Well, we're here, and we're gonna be here. So we'll treat ourselves like we're here" way that my therapist has also adopted (I do have a DID diagnosis and I'm in treatment for it). Which has led to me discovering so much nuance to my experience that where I wanted to label it before, I feel like now it might not be able to be labeled at all. And I don't really want to. I'm me! We're me! We're Wonder! And that's pretty cool on its own.

Like I said, this ramble, like…doesn't really have a point. Maybe just to put my experience out there. I guess the three main takeaways are this:

People can and do change, but a part of that is not being bombarded with information and being given the space to form their own opinion and then find people to discuss it with.

Your form of plurality and/or syscourse stance do not define your worth.

Take syscovery of any kind at your own pace. Especially if it's new to you. You don't have to rush to the answers (in fact I've found that both in and outside of the CDD context they come easier if you don't brute force them).

You're you (or perhaps even y'all)! That's pretty cool. I hope you're having a nice day.

Yeah! Rambles over, I'm gonna go make dinner. :3