#we'll see what S3 says I guess

[agenericplaceholdername]

All very well said. In full disclosure, I wasn't super happy with Lloyd's arc in S2P1 and then the master role is forced on him in S2P2. By the end of the season, the narrative (through Sora and the SD of Motion) seems to commit to the idea that Lloyd is a successful master, which is questionable. However, I'm not sure this is because the show is trying to avoid its younger audience being exposed to one of its lead characters making mistakes. Arin is introduced as this audience surrogate, optimistic fan boy and he ends S2 having decided to join with the main villain of the series.

Rather, I think that the show is portraying a very real thing -- the decisions we make may seem right in the moment, but have unintended consequences. You mentioned

Even if season three shows us some actual flaws in Lloyd’s mentorship, it will be behaviors we see begin AFTER it has supposedly already driven Arin away

but we have seen those flaws in that we've seen the decisions Lloyd has made that started to push Arin away. The narrative doesn't tell us that these actions are definitely good or bad, it presents them and has some characters defend them but also shows how they hurt Arin. If Lloyd just outright made a bad call it would be easier to solve, but now I think there's the possibility of more depth because it is hard to find a right answer.

Lloyd has been the official leader of the Ninja team definitively since S5, and whatever your thoughts on that, I'm not holding the DR writers accountable for a decision made a decade ago, so the idea that, at least when it comes to saving the world-type decisions (e.g. going after Jay or not), he's probably not gonna make a bad call. If anything, he's too hesitant to make calls of any kind back in S2P1.

That's why the point I'm trying to make is not that there are specific flaws in Lloyd's teaching that can easily be excised. Rather, his entire view of trying to live up to Wu is flawed. We've seen examples of this already, so if the show goes in that direction, it would be after two seasons of buildup. Now, maybe the show won't go so far in this direction that it presents Ras as having some points. Yes, he's obviously very evil and has ulterior motives. That being said, we also have a group of villains who seem to be more "pure evil" than Ras: the Forbidden Five. I don't think it's unreasonable that while the FF serve as our main threats, Ras poses a more fundamental challenge to the Ninja's worldview. Just because Ninjago doesn't really do grey area doesn't mean they can't start now. I don't think the show would say that all of Wu's teachings are wrong, just that the way Lloyd has interpreted them through his desire to be like his uncle is wrong. We'll see what S3 says, especially with a certain returning character who has a history with Wu and his mistakes.

As for the objection that "Lloyd cracking under the pressure of his lineage isn't exactly new," I guess that's true but those stories are universally related to his dad being Garmadon, and typically center around his angst about having to fight his father -- they're his opposition to something. Here, Lloyd has an affirmative goal to be like his uncle.

I nearly entirely agree with your last paragraph. This would be a really subversive and unique for Ninjago character arc, and if executed well I think it would be really interesting. That being said - abandoning the role entirely does seem like needlessly throwing the baby out with bathwater when he does have a student who looks up to him and would probably be pretty hurt by him appearing to abandon her. I think it could still work though, framed as an appropriate move for Lloyd's mental health and that instead of replacing him with someone more capable (since much like Kai and Wyldfyre, I think Lloyd and Sora have their own bond), the whole original team are teachers. We already seem to be moving in that direction with Cole and Frak, but we don't need to separate students like this. Each original Ninja has something to offer the new ones, and can do it together. That can happen alongside a story where Lloyd a) learns he doesn't have to be like Wu and b) as you said, tying his self esteem to his success as a master.

On the stuff in the tags:

I do feel like you've given Kai a little too much credit with Wyldfyre. Yes, she should learn more control pre-learning Spinjitzu. But Kai wanted Wyldfyre to learn more precision back in S1, E11 in the Dragon Core Temple, starts to teach her it in S1, E20 back at the monastery when they're shooting at those cans, and yet in the ending of S2P1 Wyldfyre still lacks precision when she's removing the Wolf Mask helmets from Kai and Sora (when she burns Kai's hair) and in the start of S2P2 when she's fighting the Lava-Tides in Kreel's Junkyard. That's despite whatever time skip between S1 and S2 that made Arin so frustrated he hadn't learned Spinjitzu yet. And in the start of S2P2, she disagrees with the statement, "There's more to being a Ninja than Elemental Powers," so clearly Kai hasn't gotten to that part of her training (a lesson Kai has learned repeatedly).

I'm not sure how important the Green Ninja title is -- very few characters refer to Lloyd as the Green Ninja aside from as description (Kai is the Master of Fire, Jay is the Master of Lighting, Lloyd is the legendary Green Ninja) and that's really just because they can't call him the Master of [energy? life?] since no one (but Roby?) seems to know what his element is. Him being the leader of the team was established long ago semi-independently of his title (apparently everyone else is bad at it, or so S5 wants us to believe) and he started teaching Arin and Sora since he was the only Ninja at the monastery at the start of DRS1. Kai has already taken on a student, and Cole might be doing the same with Frak. Yes, Lloyd has plenty of focus and (unlike the other original Ninja) is one of the main protagonists. But is that because he's specifically the destined Green Ninja? I think Lloyd got some undue focus in the 11 minute era but I wouldn't blame that on him being the Green Ninja specifically, and at that point the show had him on equal footing with the other 5 ninja. DR is a new show where Lloyd is on unequal narrative footing with the original crew, but he doesn't have unfair focus over the other two protagonists, Arin and Sora. Yes, his family ties are relevant, but only insofar as they relate to his uncle, an important character in his own right and someone Lloyd was close to. Lloyd being the FSM's grandson is used as a gag, and his relationship with his dad hasn't even been mentioned after 40 episodes.

Maybe Lloyd just shouldn't be a master.

He's clearly not very good at it. He's been trying it since season 5, and his first real students both take FOREVER to make any progress. Sora takes a whole season to unlock her powers, but apparently isn't taught spinjitzu in any of that time- the literal first thing we see taught to any of our characters in the original show. Arin somehow makes backwards progress with Lloyd, and then after doing like three poses with his friend seems to get it instantly.

Like... seems like he's just not very good at teaching. Maybe he should hand the position over to Kai, he's got a natural knack for it, a lot more experience, and a much higher success rate as far as I'm concerned. Master Kai for the win.

[teambyler]

Byler kind of HAS to end this way in Season 5 - Let's talk #Castlegate

Let's have another Gate, shall we? =D

We're all freaking out and speculating how Byler will culminate. I've already given my best guess how it'll happen. But it's still a guess.

But I'm PRETTY SURE on a scene that would happen late in the season, If Byler is endgame. It's almost borne by NECESSITY.

I'll explain:

In s2 we saw Mike donating his toys, like his parents told him to...

In s3 we saw him tell Will, "We're not kids anymore. I mean what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? That we were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?"

And Will destroyed Castle Byers...

As someone points out in the comments, this wasn't just Will thinking he was "stupid" for wanting to play games, but for wanting a life with Mike...

A theme for Mike has been telling himself to put away "childish things," to "grow up" and be "normal." But he doesn't really want to: in s4 he's playing D&D again. He tries to bury his feelings for Will, but he gives up on that also.

If he and Will get together in s5, then there's no use trying to be "normal" when you're a boy with a boyfriend in small-town Indiana. They will start defining for themselves who they are. And that could include "playing D&D and Nintendo for the rest of their lives."

That's why, at the end of Season 5, after Mike and Will get together, they have to rebuild Castle Byers. They get to rebuild their childhood dreams and hope for the future.

We've already seen that Castle Byers will be featured in the season 5 BTS video:

Castle Byers is probably important in s5 for a number of reasons. It's where Will hid in s1 while in the Upside Down.

It's a possible place for the planned Miwi flashback(s) of young Jonathan, Mike and Will. Jonathan helped Will build Castle Byers when Lonnie left. Young Mike and Will must have spent a lot of time there playing pretend, playing out stories that became their D&D games. (I'm hoping for a flashback of a young Mike playing a paladin swearing allegiance to Will saying he'll always protect Castle Byers!)

When Gaten Matarazzo read the script for the final episode, he called it a "full circle" moment. I'm sure there'll be several moments. I'm willing to bet money we'll see the Original Four playing D&D together. I'm pretty sure another will be Mike and Will going to Castle Byers together and rebuilding it.

And of course, they'll kiss there!

This, more than anything, is a way to show they've fully accepted who they are, who they've always been, and always will be.

It's a perfect way to culminate the "childhood friends to lovers" trope: they end right where they began.

-teambyler

[markantonys]

I am beyond sick of the "the show is doing Rand and the Dragon dirty" opinions. There's this argument that the show hasn't shown what it really means to be the Dragon which is a problem cause it's two seasons in. As if that's something that doesn't really start getting addressed in TSR? That's definitely gonna be a s3 plot point now that he actually is publicly the Dragon. Also that "show onlies don't get what the point of Rand is. He didn't really do much up to this point especially in both finales." As if he didn't kill Ishy twice and take out like 12 Seanchan singlehandedly? The disrespect. A lot of this is coming from bitterness from book fans seeing some show fans are hating on Rand cause they think Egwene should be the dragon which is somehow on Rafe cause Eg is his favorite character so of course to them that means he's gonna give Egwene everything and screw over everyone else 🙄

yeah!! it's especially ironic because in THE LITERAL LAST BATTLE, egwene is leading the physical/magical fighting out on the frontlines while rand is doing a 1v1 faceoff of philosophy & ethics with ishy. aka exactly what's happened in both season finales! they are co-protagonists and these are their respective roles! egwene is the warrior hero and rand is the philosopher hero. methinks that it's actually these readers who don't get the point of rand, if they think that rand spending the finales showing moral strength in the face of the shadow is less The Point Of Him than having cool swordfights or channeling explosions.

the show has also been showing that female channelers have training institutions in place whereas male ones do not, and showing the consequences of that. hence egwene is much better-positioned than rand to pull off or be involved in major channeling feats early on (1x08: has little training herself but can contribute her supernova strength to a circle because a trained female channeler is there to lead it; 2x08: received enough training at the white tower and forcible training with the seanchan to do major channeling feats by herself). meanwhile rand is out here functioning off a fragmented 2-page excerpt from "male channeling for dummies", so he is nowhere near as capable as egwene at this point in time. that contrast is logical and it is deliberate, but i guess when this group of rand stans says "the show needs to show why it's bad to be a male channeler" they just mean "we want to see Poor Perfect Rand getting bullied by Awful Women Who Are Wrong" rather than "we want to see a major capability disparity between rand and egwene to reflect the impact of one group having institutionalized training at their disposal and the other not".

plus, the show is taking the forsaken and the threat they pose MUCH more seriously than the books did. in the show, while they're still entertaining and fun to watch, they also feel like genuinely terrifying and powerful villains, whereas in the books many of them felt like cartoon villains who are better at providing comedic or melodramatic value than actual threat. and none fits the latter description better than asmodean, our resident Most Pathetic Forsaken. in the books he was always just a clown loser to me and never once did i consider him a credible threat, ergo, it didn't take much to convince me that rand should take him on as a teacher. in the show, if he gets a similar glowup as ishy and lanfear so that he does feel like he poses serious danger and is scary, then rand will need a VERY GOOD reason to agree to take lessons from him and the audience will need a very good reason to believe that it's worth the risk (especially because iirc lanfear is the one to suggest that asmo train him, and lanfear ALSO being a much more credible threat in the show is another reason why we'll REALLY need to be given reasons to feel that rand listening to her in this instance is a calculated risk rather than batshit stupidity). hence, it was crucial for s2 to do exactly what it did: show how badly rand is struggling without training and how few good options he has for teachers (i.e. absolutely zero options as of the end of the season since logain was a bust).

also the "show-onlys thinking egwene should be the dragon" phenomenon comes from the fact that, as of right now in this early stage, egwene is a go-getter gifted kid teacher's pet (affectionate) who yearns to be part of The Plot whereas rand is a cottagecore househusband being dragged into The Plot kicking and screaming, so OF COURSE right now egwene seems like the better candidate for the chosen one who has the fate of the world in their hands! right from the start she's been much more of a Gets Shit Done person than rand, and that was absolutely true in the early books as well even if they never explicitly raised the idea of egwene being TDR instead of him. but that doesn't mean rand won't grow into a Gets Shit Done person now that he's accepted the responsibility of being TDR and it doesn't mean show-onlys won't grow to agree that he's the right choice for TDR. or even if they don't, who cares? boy, i bet this crew who's spent 20 years declaring "rand is a saint who's done nothing wrong ever in his life and egwene is a worse villain than the forsaken and seanchan" into an echo chamber of like-minded fans isn't coping well with seeing show-onlys not share all their opinions. they got so used to being the majority opinion for 20 years that they cannot handle seeing other people now have different takes! i can't wait to see them have a collective aneurysm when show-onlys think that Malewife Supreme Gawyn is the superior trakand boy over Alt-Right Dipshit Galad (and show-onlys WILL think this, i've planted that seed and i will see the harvest).

[butterflydm]

WoT trailer thoughts

Okay, I gotta run off to work soon, but I wanted to poke at the trailer some more first.

After consultations with @markantonys, who is better at recognizing people who Change Their Hair And Clothes (how dare they!), I now know that it is Josha in the river scene and Alanna in the orchard scene with Perrin and Not Elayne (and thus Morgase) in the Lion Throne scene.

So, thoughts on the season ahead of us...

Though I want more than one episode with everyone together, if Rand & co are going to the Waste on foot, they might want two 'travel' episodes to let time pass in the other plotlines, so it might be both Rand's group (via land) and Perrin's group (via the Ways) who leave at the end of the first episode. I'm currently leaning this way because it doesn't look like Egwene is in the scene where Galad fights Gawyn (and which is likely to lead into the Mat vs the princes fight) and the only reason I feel like she wouldn't be there is if she is already on the way to the Waste.

Hopefully Rand & co will leave in the middle of ep2 and we get some more time with everyone together! And Egwene & Gawyn could at least meet each other, lol.

The implication from some of the marketing is that Rand is going to try to tempt Lanfear to the Light while she's trying to tempt him to the Shadow. They've really set up "Rand only lives if I die" with Moiraine in the marketing and the trailers, so I also lean towards us getting the Moiraine & Lanfear confrontation at the end of this season. And Rand seeing past!Lanfear in the glass columns could lead him down the path of believing I Can Fix Her, while she is continuing to try to weave her manipulation around him.

So in the first episode, we're going to get Liandrin & co busting out from the White Tower, Egwene's Accepted Test, a bit of the new group all bonding together, and Egwene meeting Amys Bair in TAR. Ihvon is probably dying in ep1. I do think that the show probably originally planned on killing off Maksim but when they had to recast Ihvon for s3, it made more sense to keep the actor that the audience will know than the brand-new one. We see Maksim in shots of the Battle of the Two Rivers, so we know he lives (at least that long).

I think long-haired Rand in the river is probably from Egwene's Accepted Test, because his coat makes me think of Rand-as-Dragon type clothes. He basically has book!Rand hair. I'm guessing this is paired with the Wondergirls in their fancy clothes on horses.

I think we'll get the bubble(s) of evil in the first episode and it might be what makes Rand realize he needs to get moving and not stay in Tar Valon.

And then ep2 might focus on the White Tower and meeting the Caemlyn Crew, with subplots in other places -- so we'd get Mat fighting the princes, us seeing Elayne with her family. Maybe a flashback to Elaida becoming Morgase's adviser and showing us her 'talent' at Foretelling (her saying that the Andoran royal line is key to winning the Last Battle only a couple of episodes before we learn that Rand is of the previous Andoran royal line).

Ep3 could focus on Perrin in the Two Rivers -- finding out his family is dead and/or visiting Laila's grave. Maybe meeting Faile and Luc. Alanna and Perrin talking about grief, since she would have recently lost one of her Warders, and this might be the moment where we see Perrin let Laila go.

Ep4 then focuses on the Waste plotlines -- Rand in the columns, Moiraine in the rings, Egwene learning TAR.

Ep5 could focus on Tanchico and Moghedien (interrogation scene, etc). And, if my speculation (along with @markantonys) is correct, also the introduction of Tuon. It just seems like a good season for introducing end-game love interests to each other! And one of my big arguments re: Tuon is that she needed to be on the board so much sooner than Jordan put her there, so that she would have time to get a character arc.

And I think I might place Ep6 as the White Tower Coup, because in the new trailer, we have both Moiraine and Egwene bringing up points about the Tower being divided being bad and how Rand will need the White Tower for the Last Battle. Feels like set-up for the coup happening this season.

Ep7 as the Battle of the Two Rivers and wrapping up Perrin for the season. I think that Tanchico might be saved for Ep8, especially if we do get a little doorway action for Mat as well and Moiraine, and he potentially ends up in Rhuidean (I will only let this speculation go when it is proven untrue lol).

Mat is wearing a cord in the new poster, so I feel like that implies we're getting snakes and/or foxes this season, so that he can get the medallion (or he gets the medallion in the Tanchico museum, but our hints about having a special character in the final episodes who was a collab between practical effects department and make-up makes me lean towards the 'Finn).

Ep8 is then left for Rand announcing himself at Alcair Dal, Couladin getting in the way, and the Moiraine & Lanfear confrontation, plus the Nynaeve & Moghedien confrontation in Tanchico.

Then it leaves Elayne & Nynaeve in a position at the end of s4 where they can either merge up with Rand's storyline or they can go to Salidar first, depending on how many seasons Rafe feels like we're going to get (this idea first floated by @markantonys! it makes so much sense).

[mimpinightmare]

VERY HEAVYILY ON WHAT HAPPENED TO JOMO-

(I'm still waiting for that next season, MoonBug. /HJ & Half Delusional-)

never ask a man his salary. never ask a woman her age. never ask a supa strikas fan about:

early season dingaan (i still shiver to this day)

early season el matador (yeah this one's also REAL bad)

LITERALLY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING FROM S1-2

why klaus is still not a starter... sigh its tiring out here

fc nakama. bc we'll be here all day

where the banger minor characters went!!!!!

the show's timeline. seriously i thought cognito was a new team but as rookie season goes... it's apparently NOT??

how old any of them are

WTF HAPPENED TO JOMO (MOONBUG IM LOOKING AT YOU!!!)

speaking of which. never ask me how tf invincible united got away w hiring an actor to play shakes' supposedly dead dad. that HAS to be a federal offense

sp*ke d*ws*n

s7 finale "game over"

the youtube thumbnails

which voice actor voices who exactly

how the fuck these guys keep falling for inyo's trap

dooma's debut

the show's obsession w feet

the characters' casual clothes... yikes

shakes/skarra. you don't wanna open that can of worms

HOW THESE GUYS ARE STILL ALIVE

what the show is about. DON'T EVER ASK ME THIS. I DO NOT KNOW

[dadattebayo]

You know what guys…

I just watched this teaser for the final episode, and of course I am thrilled and blown away by Sauron's maniac face telling he is gonna rape his preciousssss eat Galadriel alive

oh fuck help me i can´t

BUT

I still have something to say. Like okay, i get it, all this unspoken sexual tension and stuff between them, and kinda obvious crazy thirst for her in his creepy face - all could be fine by me except the one tiny detail. What we can see more in this teaser is another freaking kiss that is going to happen this time between Isildur and his girl sorry I forgot her name,

so what’s really pissing me off is that so far we would have 4 kisses in the show and basically these are 4 KISSES NO ONE ACTUALLY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT.

1. Harfoots. Who cares about the hobbits kissing scene? Like what the hell was it for? Does someone for real ship them? Was this kiss important to the story?

Fucking NO.

2. Elrond and Galadriel. Totally unnecessary. No one expected this and no one would want this to happen actually. Especially considering the fact he eventually just put the key into her hand without any special use of his mouth required.

Okay I get it can explained he wanted to distract the orcs, but anyway, somehow the writers did came up with this particular idea!

3. Arondir and Bronwin. Totally fine by me except she´s dead now.

4. Now Isildur and Estrid (I remembered the name).

At first I was blind enough watching the teaser to think it was Halbrand so I got a mini stroke.

Pretty sure once we will see Elendil/Miriel kissing too. Of course I do not mind any of these kisses happening, I even ship some of them but still these are not something the whole fandom is waiting for.

There is literally only one kiss EVERYONE is expecting. Not only the haladriel shippers, but everyone (some might want it to happen, some might not, but it would not be a surprise for anyone) since in fact nobody has ever asked for Saurondriel in the first place, it was totally up to the showrunners to literally just start pushing this ship into our throats from their first meeting using all scrupulously planned moments between them throughout the season 1 and countless hints and moments of nostalgia in the season 2! God, they even invented the whole Mirdania character just to prove Sauron´s feelings (and of course to show his cruelty later, but thats not the point)

guess where the kiss should have happened if they hadn't been interrupted

The writers made this ship up consciously and intentionally. THEY HAVE BEEN FEEDING US WITH HALADRIEL SINCE THE BEGINING,

So why the fuck this couple which has always been promoted in such obvious way is the only one that is not likely to get a goddamn kiss?! At this point i would rather believe that even Stranger and Nori would kiss, but not Saurondriel.

This is disturbing. BECAUSE EXCUSE ME WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT 2 MORE YEARS to get the s3. I am not still quite sure though cause there is still no official announcement on s3

So, they all have already messed up enough with the original plot by putting some of the kisses mentioned above in the series, so why just not let also Saurondriel finally happen? What difference would it make anyway? none! all plot holes will all be fixed thanks to impossibility to fix sauron.

I am just fed up with another 'LETS TOUCH THE DARKNESS TOGETHER', "NO NEVER', 'DIE BECAUSE OF ME', BLABLA...

It needs something better to get us screaming and making views to the show.

[danlous]

I've probably said this before but when considering the unreliable narration in iwtv i think what we don't see is much more important than what we see. Like i think people have been since the beginning focusing too much on what is a 'fake' memory or narrative or lie. Especially Lestat fans have a tendency to do that when trying to explain away things he does saying that isn't 'real Lestat'. But there is actually very little in these first two seasons that contradicts Lestat's established characterization; what we lack is Lestat's point of view and more information. It's not about the existence of all the negative things and memories, but the absence of positive ones. We know there were good things in Louis and Claudia's relationship with Lestat but we see very little of it. There is nothing in Lestat's abusive and cruel treatment of them that contradicts that he loved them and that good things existed too. Even if he had been a hundred times more abusive it wouldn't have dimmed the reality of his love in the slightest. But that love, especially the love he has for Cladia, isn't necessarily clear for viewers or characters other than Lestat in the show because it's not shown.

When we get Lestat's version of the story in s3 it's going to be different than Louis' or Claudia's or Armand's version - but i think probably less so than most people assume. In 2.07 we already see that Lestat's version of the revisited scenes is more like an extended version and doesn't really even contradict Louis' and Claudia's story. In Lestat's version of Claudia's night of turning Louis begged him more desperately and he warned Louis more strongly, but it's actually very similar - we just didn't see everything they said. In ep5 flashback he's vague and doesn't tell everything he did (if we only got Lestat's version you'd have an impression that the assault was less violent than it was) but doesn't deny anything either and openly admits that he 'broke' Louis to hurt him. The additional scene is just what Claudia didn't see because she wasn't in the same room and it doesn't change anything, it just tells us more about what Lestat was feeling. In the same way i think Lestat's narration later is going to give his perspective and clarify his motivations and emotions, but it's not going to erase anything we've seen before. You can already guess that Lestat felt extremely lonely and abandoned and paranoid, and that he was worried and protective of Louis and Claudia and tried to control his fears and insecurities by controlling his fledglings. We'll see much more of him being vulnerable and loving and learn a lot about his past and trauma. But none of that means that everything we've seen didn't happen, and likely Lestat isn't going to claim it didn't happen either. And it most certainly doesn't excuse anything.

For example in 1.06 when Lestat forced Claudia to return, in addition to dragging her home so that Louis would stay with him i think he was also genuinely trying to protect her because he knew that other vampires in Europe would likely kill her quickly if and when she found them. But that doesn't make the way he treated her in that scene any less horrendous and abusive. The depiction of Lestat and Claudia's relationship in the show has actually been in line with their book relationship, where in Interview Lestat is often cruel to her, threatens to kill her, and indicates that he only made her to keep Louis with him. We only learn later from Lestat's own narration that he actually always loved her. The scene at the end of Interview where he's crying while clutching Claudia's dress after her death is arguably the first time we see proof of him loving her. I think it's pretty likely they're going to include that in the show, with Claudia wearing a similar yellow dress and Santiago pointedly snatching it from her ashes, and that is going to be a reveal to viewers that Lestat's feelings for Claudia were much more complex than shown so far.

I think Lestat's love for Claudia, which i'd argue is a core part of his character in the same way his love for Louis is, is the most significant part of the story that has been erased, and that erasure makes sense since Armand's narrative relies on the presumption that Lestat hated Claudia and wanted to kill her. But it's Lestat's own doing that narrative is so believable that even Louis believes his husband wanted their daughter dead. This is a tragedy that Lestat created himself. The greatest horror of the story is the continuous coexistence of deepest love and deepest cruelty. The most upsetting thing isn't that Lestat was a victim of some false narrative and didn't actually do the things he was shown to do, or that he didn't really love Louis and Claudia, but that he loved them, both of them, and still did those things

[nalyra-dreaming]

As Rolin wants to expand the rockstar plot & give Louis a plotline in the present, is it safe to assume that less overall screentime will be devoted to Lestat-centric flashbacks in s3?

In seasons 1-2 it felt like Louis' flashbacks took up at least 3/4 of most episodes runtime. So I'm wondering, how far do you think the ratio will shift in s3? Will they devote roughly equal time to the past & present narratives? Or will the flashbacks themselves be a sub-plot to the modern-day storyline? I hope not, as I'd hate for them to skim over TVL. But I do think it'll be cool to mix it up & have more activity in the present.

Leaving the Unreliable Narrator theme behind will let Lestat's backstory run more smoothly tbf. Daniel having to puzzle out and second-guess everything, and Louis having to painstakingly uncover his own memories was interesting, but it was time-consuming & would feel stale if they did it again. If Lestat's story is told in a more straight-forward way it frees things up, time-wise. (before anyone gets offended I'm not saying Lestat's 'more honest' than Louis, just that he isn't being gaslighted & has full access to his own memories!) But even so, I'm eager to know how they'll structure s3, and how they plan to do TVL justice while expanding the 'rockumentary' angle & giving Louis extra screentime.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how they tackle that.

I have a feeling that it will be something like 50/50.

Lestat's past is important - it needs to be told. The reason he does tell it is to give context - to Louis (at least in the books, I see the "documentary" here as essentially the same). But I also think that if they want to pull the whole concert part off properly, if they want those songs to have the impact that they obviously are aiming for for them... then the present day, and the tour will be almost as equally important.

Depending on the episode count and what they choose to omit from the book, it could move quite quickly in flashbacks. They will have to add a bit more since this Lestat is older, but I just hope they do not spend too much time on that, or change it too much, the actual story is already heavy enough.

As per Louis... Louis will be essential to the story, I think even "Long Face" has already hinted at that, given the lyrics, and Daniel Hart's comments there. Said it before, his photography hobby is likely not unrelated :)) We'll see. But that is, of course, also an aspect to it all that will increase the "present time" story.

We are also moving into "present time" with big steps. Of course there is more history to tell, more experiences... but the events about to shake these vampires' world happen in the "present". So they have to build that up properly as well.

[bitchywillgraham]

This makes the most sense. I think this moment - along with the trial itself - will definitely be revisited.

There is also this moment where Daniel asks Armand what the consequences were for saving Louis during the trial and Armand talks about being demoted and ridiculed, but what's really interesting is what we're shown. While Armand is saying this, we're shown some random woman, presumably a human, being tortured by the coven.

We see that she's dropped from a great height and dragged and put into the rat box.

Why are we being shown this? How do these two things even connect? It's possible that the show wants you to see the parallels between this human woman being tortured with Armand's ridicule and demotion by the coven as a kind of torture. But, that doesn't make any sense since we know it was Lestat that saved Louis during the trial, not Armand. The coven would know this too. The coven knows that Lestat is the one that saved Louis during the trial.

I think this is subtle foreshadowing for what really happened with Lestat after the trial and why he was so weak, ontop of his already weakened state. It would further explain why it took him so long to get Louis out of the crypt.

It's also possible that this woman's fall is the show foreshadowing the infamous tower scene from TVL, but a reimagined version for the show.

Okay so we're all in agreement that it was Lestat who pulled Louis out of the wall in the theatre right? The episode doesn't make it explicitly clear and they only show us Lestat saving Louis during the trial. And in fact they have Louis say he knew the blood he tasted upon being freed was Armand's...

But in the context of everything else that... doesn't actually make much sense? Because here's what actually happened...

First, Louis woke up in the sewer alone...

Why would Armand just leave him there if he suddenly decided to choose Louis over the coven after Lestat saved him from imminent death? After listening to him screaming in agony as he starved in that coffin for... how long? The opportunity that presented itself wasn't Louis being saved from death at the trial on the stage and being locked in a vault. Armand could have taken him out at any time. He chose not to. He chose to listen to him screaming in agony for... days? Weeks????

Armand didn't care. He chose the coven. He discovered Louis was gone and only then did he reach out to him telepathically while he was in the crypt plotting his revenge. Louis asked Armand if he saved him at the trial AND if he pulled him out of the wall. Armand gave the same monotone "yes" as an answer to both. And I think we're meant to understand these are both equal lies in hindsight.

And when Armand told Louis to leave Paris it was clear his only aim was to save the coven. If Armand wanted to be with him he would have been. He only decided to choose Louis after the coven was gone and he had no other choice. Armand was at full strength the whole time. 500 years old. Powerful enough to walk in the sun. He could control the coven with a snap of his fingers.

But you know who wasn't at full strength at the time? Who couldn't have just gone to him right away even though he wanted to save Louis more than anything in the world?

Lestat only let Louis stay in that situation for as long as he did because he was so weakened by doing the mind trick that saved him in the first place. We all saw how rough he looked after Louis had been taken away in 2x07. The way he was standing there swaying on his feet...

He had to regain his strength to go back to the theatre, get Louis out, give him his blood at full strength so that it might heal him. And he only left him there because he believed he needed to let Louis go. Because he was not worthy of Louis' forgiveness etc...

This is probably a conclusion lots of you have already come to but I didn't pick up on it during my first watch because I was so emotionally compromised. I don't know why they had Louis say it was Armand's blood, but maybe we're meant to understand it as another misremembering. Louis trying to reason with himself that it had to have been Armand's blood. Because before Daniel gave him the final pieces of the puzzle, he very much believed Armand had been the one to save him at the trial. The one to pull him out of the wall...

[pynkhues]

There was a background poster for 2x03 where Lestat's acting credit in 1794 was Lestat de Lioncourt so he could have kept his name in Paris. OR it could have been for convenience so the audience wouldn't be confused at Lestat having a different name without context. After all, this was in Armand's memory and Armand's hardly the Teller Of Whole Truths, so Lestat could still change his name in Paris because he will be there during the Revolution years. ALSO Dreamstat said "I pretended to be an actor for two years" and I'm dying to know if he meant 1792-1794, he was an actor for two years before Magnus killed him, or if he meant 1794-1796, he was an actor for two years after he was turned. It may be the latter because Louis was thinking about his photography, but part of me hopes the former because that would've meant he got to have a few normal-ish human years before Magnus killed him? AND 1796 is the year of death on Nicki's tombstone which could mean Lestat was still in Paris when Nicki committed suicide, or Nicki killed himself within the year of Lestat and Gabrielle's departure. If Lestat thinks Armand cause Nicki's death as implied in 2x07, Lestat could have thought Armand cut off Nicki's hands as revenge for Lestat leaving without him.

(x)

It wouldn't actually surprise me if they dropped the Lestat de Valois beat for the show as I don't think it's really all that important? Like, I love it as a moment in the books obviously, haha, and everything the name he chooses implies, but Nicki's friends in Paris still know who Lestat is, it's only Renaud's theatre troupe who doesn't, and given the name he takes has an air of aristocracy to it (to say nothing of the fact that even de Lioncourt is of regional aristocracy anyway), it's probably much of a muchness for the other actors who may even presume de Lioncourt is a stage name too.

I'm really curious about the timeline with Lestat's acting too. Armand's implying it was all after he was turned, given he reads Lestat's charisma as purely vampiric, but even in the 92NY panel, Sam acknowledged that's not how it happened in the book. Lestat had about six months of success before Magnus took him, and then when he tried to act after he was turned, he terrified the audience. I don't know if the show will do that exactly, but I do think the fact that Lestat's cast as the clown in Armand's memory instead of the romantic lead, and that Armand talks to Lestat on stage from the audience in a way not dissimilar to Magnus, is a deliberate wink to people who've read the book that Armand is lying (and actually Rolin's reaction too in that 92NY interview makes me think we'll get Lestat-as-Lelio in s3 too).

While Lestat's stagename feels like something that can be passed over, Magnus hunting Lestat from the audience while he's on stage doesn't, so I do think some of those two years of acting for Lestat will be as a human. Whether it'll be all of them, a single performance, or something in between is anyone's guess right now, and I think a lot of it will depend on how much the show decides to adapt Nicki as the actual founder of Theatres des Vampires, over Lestat, which personally I hope they do.

And yeah! Lestat's turned 1794 and Nicki dies - according to his plot at the Theatre - in 1796.

(An aside, but I was talking to @camaelczarka a while ago, and like - - what's in there? Nicki threw himself on the fire, so is it just ash? Or could it be his hands??)

There's no guarantee this is real, especially given the current theatre isn't Renaud's, which is the one Lestat bought both in the book and 2.03, and I don't know how easy it is to move plots like this, but presumably not very. It's - - yeah. Going to be really interesting to see what they do with the timeline in that regard, and with Renaud's and Nicki and Armand in general.

As for Nicki now being nine-years younger than Lestat - - it definitely surprised me, but I think it probably stems from the desire to keep Nicki at a reasonably student age, because I do actually think him studying and being dragged back to the Auvergne by his father is important to his arc. I don't think it's indicative of a shift in terms of their power dynamic though. I talked about it in this post, but a lot of that between them comes from Nicki's worldliness and education, while Lestat's been deliberately and abusiviely uneducated to the point he's practically illiterate. That plays a greater role than age to me, especially if they keep Lestat under his father's thumb in the Auvergne until he runs away with Nicki, and with Nicki being, presumably, 25 to Lestat's 34 - - they're both adults, and honestly life experience can play a much bigger role in power dynamics than age in adulthood. I'm cautiously optimistic about it all, anon. I'm mostly just hoping we get some tragic romance with Nicki and Lestat, and some weird psychosexual stuff between Armand and both of them, haha.

[zmediaoutlet]

happy wincest wednesday z! it's very probable you've been asked this already, but, on a chance you haven't: between when you first got into wincest and now, what were the main shifts in your perception of the ship, in things you focus on, in things that give you the most heart palpitations? especially considering that you came in when the show was still about halfway in, iirc! would really love to hear about this <3

aw, bud! gumdrop! ty for thinking of me on the happy holy day <3

and you know, I don't think I have been asked this! It's a really good thing to ponder. My memory is Bad but let me try to cast my mind back to those early days in a sort of compare/contrast exercise and we'll see what shakes out. As you know I started watching spn in ~2011/12ish, and was fully caught up and watching ep by ep as of late s7/beginning of s8, so it is a little different that I binged the first half of the show and took the slow path for the second half. So what did I think initially...

I remember having an out-loud conversation with the bestie once I'd essentially finished s1 that I was surprised I wasn't shipping the brothers. A lot of those early s1 moments didn't get me at all, and I still wouldn't put s1 in my top five seasons. Like -- no chance. It was important getting-to-know-them time and of course there are great individual bits, but I didn't wincest about it at all. I think that took until... s2, maybe even s3. (It was a fast binge at first, admittedly. I think you also know that I watched almost all of s1 in the grips of a literal delirium fever, so I wasn't really grokking it until later.)

I think I really started to like Get Into the wincest once it was getting apocalyptic -- s3/4/5. I mean how could you not. The stakes are never higher than they were then, really. That was the deepest danger and it was such a five-alarm fire of -- oh, this is IT. This is what it means that they're brothers. Back then I liked more of the 'family horror' element, although obv I never went quite as melodrama hbo-spn as the current fashion is, bc I left that behind with like HP fandom in the 2000s, haha -- but still! I read my fair share of "Sam pines and this is why he leaves," my fair share of "Dean's torn up about how his little brother's hot and that's why he basically feel like he deserves to go to hell," you know. etc etc. They still hit in their way but I don't -- like that much anymore, because.......

so I was REALLY into the s6-7 arc, loved it to PIECES. I loved saint!Sam getting his martyr on, the insanity, etc. The first fic series I wrote for this fandom was Physical Graffiti and it was all about that. And I still love it! Still wonderful! Buuuuut I didn't realize, I guess, what delights there were in store for the Carver era, and I didn't realize either that Sera was still working firmly inside the Apocalyptic Model -- obv appropriate for the show, but even if it was all about consequence and messy "what if there's not destiny anymore", it was still very much about the destiny and how firmly tied they were to each other. But then there was --

Carver era! Which was a bumpy ride, haha. But even the first half of s8 was ROUGH to get through (god, those horrible amelia flashbacks, godddd) what became clear was that this was now the Choosing Era, and there's nothing that hornts me up more than Choosing. I love the apocalypse, I love the destiny shit, but it turns out that I love SO MUCH MORE the sense that there are ten thousand thousand other options that characters could be making and yet they nevertheless turn ever inward, because this is what they want after all, and not just what they are forced to have. Dude, that FUCKS. It's so good.

therefore, like, I get palpitations obviously still from things like s1, Sam saying "it's never gonna be like it was" and Dean pathetically going "could be?" Like that's good. Of course. But my established-relationship, adult complication, soulmates-are-made-not-by-fate-but-by-choice heart thrills more (and more every day!) to little things like... in the French Mistake, when Dean half-cautiously says to Sam that his life here isn't so bad, and maybe they could stay, and Sam just shrugs and says "we're not brothers here, man." Or when Sam could absolutely have stayed in Kermit at that shitty motel where Amelia would've waited, but instead he shows up at a cabin and eats bad chili with Dean, even if he's still mad. Or when Dean was a demon, and then had a mark, and Sam at any point could've said -- you know what, we could make a sacrifice play here and save several days, but I wanted you back, and Dean looks at him and then away because -- that's just true. That's a choice, made. Every day.

that's the shit, man. That's all I need.

[yangsharperavery]

I was reading five times at a simmer; once boiling over again and idk if someone else already pointed out but I noticed you predicted a lot of things for season 2 like the “I couldn’t have done any of this without you” line, the panic attack moment and syd helping him, the fact that she wants accolades like a star and carmy saying they’re overrated, and probably more! so idk if it’s because they as well as their relationship are very well written so they are predictable for amazing writers like you or because you’re just a genius or you’re actually chris lol but wow this was great to read and you’re extremely talented!

Also pleaseee share some theories you have for sydcarmy s3 I will believe you!!

gah! thank you so much. thoughtful words like this mean so much to me. writers are typically so deeply critical of their own work and i am no exception! i appreciate your sentiments so very much. truly.

it's so funny because the same thing was brought to my attention about the second one shot i wrote after five times at a simmer; once boiling over.

in still don't know what love means i also predicted a few things that ended up happening in the second season.

i watch so much tv and have written a handful of spec scripts so its very possible i just see the story theme threads and follow them in the way i think they would naturally go in subsequent seasons.

i actually don't have any concrete guesses around s3 other than what i've seen other fans speculate about.

there's gonna be a lot of tension and discord. carmy's going to regress and probably drive sydney away/she'll be poached. they'll fight. probably alot. i forsee some type of emotional breakthrough for carmy towards the end of the season. like maybe we'll see him crying for the first time? perhaps over natalie's baby or hearing about the details of mikey's funeral or something happening to or with donna.

maybe he'll go somewhere to attempt to release or process or deal with his anger and grief. maybe even something unconventional that isn't therapy.

he's probably gonna turn into asshole chef from nyc, which is one of the reasons syd will threaten to walk/actually walk.

i'm very interested in the grand gesture carmy will present sydney with this season. first season was the restaurant, second season was the chef's whites. it's easy to say the third season would be a star but i actually think it's going to be more personal this time around. i also am not convinced they'll get the star on their first try.

but that will be his hyper-fixation and preeminent concern throughout the entirety of the season which will likely turn him into someone sydney won't want to be around or can't trust.

this is gonna be their angst season without a doubt. i eat up angst with a spoon so i'm ready.

richie or tina or natalie likely makes some comment(s) about the nature of the sydcarmy partnership. one or both refute/deny/hide, etc.

they might get too physically close or cross the energetic plane during an intense moment of resolution or continued conflict. they probably won't address or talk about it.

carmy may display some jealousy that he'll mask as rigidity and order and discipline in the name of getting a star if he sees richie/marcus/luca being too chummy with sydney.

edit: oh and something like this

[virginiaisforvampires]

HEY! SUPER nervous about that whole twist thing because I don't think I trust rolin yet (we'll see after s3)

But I have two theories about it:

I reread Sam's statement and for me twist is some thing will happen but we'll get different versions of it without elaborating who tells the truth. It's already kinda happening but it seems like they added something new or perhaps changed a fact into "maybe it happened/maybe it didn't".

My main guesses:

1)Trial. I have a fear we'll get two versions, and we won't be sure if lestat is willing there or not. I think Armand will tell whole lestat is big bad villain who murdered Claudia story, and I think Louis would remember lestat how he was in iwtv book. Crying, broken. Armand will tell Louis his mind made Lestat look heartbroken to deal with trauma. We won't get answer what's the truth. Unless s3? (Ngl I'm gonna hate it if it's true. I would accept two trials if we know the truth in s2. It would be unbearable to be in this fandom)

2)This theory is way more harmless for state of fandom. Meeting in NOLA. I can see lestat rejecting Louis like he did in Anne's script, maybe he thinks it's not real Louis (Armand told him he's dead) or maybe he will really won't want to be with Louis at that moment. Lestat loves Louis very much, but in books, especially totbt you can clearly see he had some resentment lingering for murder night even if he understands why Louis did what he did. Feelings are illogical after all.

And Louis will remember himself rejecting lestat like in first book or film. It's understandable why he wasn't ready to be with lestat then, if it did happen. And if it did not, maybe Louis' mind tried to get over hurt of lestat's rejection.

I guess we'll see two Nola meetings and we won't know what has happened because no one but loustat were there, and they both won't be able to give impartial story.

Bonus point: Armand saying actually no one met no one, I know that because I was the one meeting lestat. He doesn't have memory issues, he's lying just to mess with lestat and Louis for fun.

To your first point, I’ve always said there will be two versions of the trial. I’ve always felt they were going to frame it as Lestat being at fault for Claudia’s death up to the finale. I think the finale is going to be a gut-punch for a lot of reasons.

To your second point, I don’t see that working with the show version of Loustat.

I don’t think the twist is anything necessarily character specific. Sam clearly refers to the element of truth and the unreliable aspect of it all. “Truth and reconciliation” is what this is all revolving around, and it would seem they’ve added yet another layer, which potentially goes deeper (and gnarlier) than anyone could’ve predicted.

[imthepunchlord]

Did you watch Season 5 of Miraculous? What did you think of it?

I stopped watching Miraculous at s3, I didn't watch s4 or s5, but I've heard a bit about it. Technically can't really give an opinion but I can share what I think based on what I heard.

I heard Adrienette dating was not too bad, but should've been much sooner. I agree. Could've saved us a bunch of trouble and salt. I also heard that they had the most powerful kiss that adults literally could not tear them apart XD that was funny to hear.

I got to learn that melting Miraculous down doesn't count as destroying them so, who's going to tell Frodo the one ring actually isn't destroyed as apparently melting doesn't count as destroying. Who knew?

And I got to learn that Gabriel was able to make the wish, getting what he ultimately wanted terrorizing all of Paris for 5 seasons, is remembered as a hero, and Adrien never learns about it which is all a really big wth. From what I've seen, no one was happy about that.

Uuuuh... I heard Lila got exposed, but it was meh. I heard she now goes by Cerise? Which ok, let's just make this confusing character even more confusing. Also, how much you want to bet that Cerise/Lila will join them in high school, and there's a repeat of Marinette knowing that's Lila who is lying to them but no one believes her and thinks Cerise is someone entirely new.

Ummmmmmm... oh, I heard Feligami is now a thing? Very rushed and kinda creepy/weird? But I guess they did a decent job as I do see the occasional fanart for them. Personally, I'll just stick to Kagami with girls. That moment in Riptose stuck with me waaaay to much to really get behind her being more interested in boys. I will say, Adrigami did have some nice moments, and there's concepts there where I think they can work nicely off each other (Adrien needs to learn to grow a backbone while Kagami wants to rebel and make friends, they can help each other with that), so Adrien could be the only guy I could roll with for her, but still prefer her paired with girls more.

Also I guess Felix is now a hero despite stealing the yo-yo from Ladybug and handing off... 14 Miraculous to Gabriel. And presumably making him more dangerous/difficult, though he is an idiot so I don't know how much more challenging he got. As far as I know, it was pretty much like another Tuesday.

Oh and apparently there will now be 18 heroes in Paris as I got to learn through asks. I wonder how that's going to work, if at all. Place your bets on how often we'll even see those full time heroes, as they can't really take much attention away from Marinette and Adrien, but who knows. S6 is in that weird placement now that Thomas is no longer apart of the development of ML, so it's hard to say how different it'll go.

Oh. I don't like Tikki and Plagg's true forms. Kinda Digimon over complicated design, and biblical in aesthetic which I found weird when they're supposed to be tied to Taoism. I have yet to find anything similar to biblical angels in Toaism, so I feel like this design choice works off a Christian view more (which isn't surprising as Plagg works off the unlucky black cat, which is exclusively from Christian Europe roughly 400 years ago).

Additionally, Gimmi felt like more of a Nooroo true form, than a fusion of Plagg and Tikki. I think they should've brought the concept of Null back. I think they were a better thought of a fusion of Creation and Destruction as these two concepts brought together would just nullify each other.

So over all, based on what I've heard, it's a pretty negative view of s5.

[teambyler]

Vanishing of ***** Wheeler? Now we know what "Leader Mike" will be doing

Finn Wolfhard himself said we'll see a return of "leader Mike" this season:

My best guess is that Holly -- who a new actress was cast for -- goes missing. We go back to s1 dynamics, with a missing child. In s1 the kids couldn't rely on the government. In s5, the government has too much to deal with to bother itself with one missing kid. Mike has to come up with a daring plan and rally the Party, and puts his hand down. Lucas' hand goes down first after Mike's -- maybe motivated because this can also help bring Max back. Then Will's hand, then Dustin's hand.

Will being Vecna's first victim and having a special connection to the Upside Down means that Will is key to the plan as well. Because he is important, he will BE A TARGET for Vecna.

Mike's character became less important (and less likeable to many) in s3 and s4 not only because of his relationship with El, but also he did not having something he loves in danger who he COULD do something to help. THAT is what brings out "leader Mike." And Mike will not let the people he loves -- Holly (maybe Nancy), Max, and WILL -- die.

So in s5... "Leader Mike" is back! And just like Jonathan needing Nancy to help get his brother back brought them closer, Mike will need Will to find his sister... <3 <3 <3

P.S. Read and follow my blog! I have so much to say!

[averydavery]

‼️📣 FX'S SHOGUN RENEWED FOR SEASONS 2 & 3 ‼️📣

You know what that means... time for some fan theories!

This should go without saying but SPOILERS BELOW! If you aren't caught up don't read!

For those who don't know, FX's Shōgun follows James Clavell's original novel pretty closely with some deviations, but it starts at the beginning of the novel and ends at the end of it. This leaves some major wiggle room for the continuation of the series and the writers certainly have their work cut out for them if they plan on going on for two more seasons. However, as definite the ending is, there are some loose ends to deal with and at least two directions they can head with it.

Future Plot Theories

The two ways I believe the story will go- IF THEY DECIDE TO NOT ADAPT CLAVELL'S OTHER NOVELS WHICH I HAVEN'T READ AND CONTINUE THIS PLOT- and they're pretty easy to see: either a prequel season or a season that continues the story. Let's start with the former.

At the end of S1 Mariko, one of the protagonists of the story, dies a martyr to enact Torinaga's plan to win over Ochiba's support for the incoming war. Mariko is played by popular drama actress Anna Sawai, which leads me to believe that the writers would want her character to return- if only for the sake of keeping one of their stars. While only Hiroyuki Sanada (Toranaga's actor) has reportedly signed on for the future seasons, if this is the case and Sawai signs on we can expect a prequel season episodes that explore the characters' pasts prior to the events of the first season. For Mariko, that'd likely be a look into her family and their history. As for Toranaga, a look at his rise to power should be expected and maybe a story about the his divide between him and his brother. On a grander scale, this perhaps could mean looking at life before the power vacuum that was left after the death of the previous leader and at how the Portuguese made their way into Japanese society.

Why I think this isn't all that likely: I'm starting with this theory because I think it's the least likely of the two. The main reason being how S1 ended. The first season ends with the Battle of Sekigahara, probably the most infamous battles in Medieval Japanese history. With such a bang, it has really left the viewer wanting and wishing for more, since war = action. This glimpse at the fate of the war is brief and spoils that Toranaga's faction will win overwhelmingly with the support of Ochiba and the heir's army, regardless it also leaves the audience wondering what life in Japan will be like following the decisive battle. Therefore, if we get any "prequel content" it'll likely be in the form of flashbacks or a flashback episode. Although, backstories and a prequel season could be in store for S3, just not S2.

Alright, now with that outta the way- my real theory for season 2.

As I said before, it's clear that we'll be looking at the Battle of Sekigahara and its consequences. However with major characters like Mariko, Yabushige, and John either dead or sidelined... it's to be believed that this season will be Toranaga-centric. This likely will be a season answering "what now?" since we already know Toranaga wins and seizes power. Toranaga's most loyal advisor committed seppuku, so it could tackle the issue of where he can find who to trust and how he'll deal with the former regents and the church. More political intrigue blah blah blah... but if I had to guess (and this is me hoping here): the biggest addition to the plot would be adding in Miyamoto Musashi as a major character. (I will talk about this at length under the "new characters" heading).

Returning Characters (Besides Toranaga since I yapped enough about him)

John Blackthorne

Probably one of the bigger characters who has an unknown future of him is the anjin himself! All we know of John is his remorse for Mariko after her passing and that eventually he ends up back in England as an old man. He's promised his ship to sail again and either complete his mission or return home. Based on his change as a character, I believe he does not complete his mission. But it is possible that he stays for just a bit longer to see what the future will hold under Toranaga's rule. However, since a literal war breaks out I doubt he'll stay for that. Perhaps he leaves and returns? I really believe that John will be fizzled out since his character arc has concluded.

Father Martin & The Rest of The Portuguese

Similar to John, now that Mariko is gone I doubt Father Martin will reappear and if he does it won't be for long- likely to confide in John as they both lost someone they cared for but that moment kind of already happened. However, the more important thing that may happen if they take a more historical stance with this, will be the closure of Japan's ports for another 200 years, effectively cutting off trade and influence from the Portuguese. However, Toranaga is established as a more "open-minded" ruler so I doubt that he will take this stance as well? It remains to be seen.

Kiko, Gin, & The Courtesans

A simple theory but one that may prove important is that Gin's tea house will become a massive source of income and power in Edo and I think she'll end up being a close ally to Toranaga as his influence spreads. I can see her and the courtesans establishing a sort of information and spy trade within the city.

The Regents

This is probably the area where I am most clueless as to what they plan to do with this. I'm thinking Toranaga might just "buy them out" or give them their regions as long as they pledge loyalty to his up and coming empire. There likely will be some in-fighting, but seeing as they ended up siding with Toranaga at the end of S1, I think there just kinda pushovers...

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTT I do think a whole faction will spring up either stragglers from Ishido's army or something else, there has got to be some kind of threat to Toranaga's reign... I just have no idea what that could be 😭

New Characters

Miyamoto Musashi

Probably the most infamous ronin of all time and a character/historical figure I am way too educated about, Musashi makes his name at the Battle of Sekigahara and is an incredibly popular archetype from Japanese history that's used a ton in fiction- hell, Hiroyuki Sanada has PLAYED Miyamoto Musashi in HBO's Westworld! So adding him would even be a bit of a nod to Sanada's past roles.

Regardless, since a lot of the major character's plot lines have seemed to tie up nicely by the end of S1, introducing a new major character with a lot of "lore" is likely what the writers are looking for. For those unfamiliar, Musashi is regarded as one of, if not the, greatest samurai in history. Known for his unique two-handed swordfighting style and how he was undefeated in ~61 duels, Musashi actually fought for the losing clan in the Battle of Sekigahara as a samurai-for-hire which rendered him a ronin looking to better himself solely in the way of the sword. Musashi also was a talented artist and writer, authoring the "Book of Five Rings" which was his knowledge on the ways of war and the blade.

The character of Musashi was a legend for centuries, however his first instance of being a folklore character was in Eiji Yoshikawa's aptly titled book series Musashi (1939) which cemented him into the popular zeitgeist and still is one of the most popular book series to date. There have been hundreds of adaptations of the series and stories with Musashi in it from shows to video games, with the most praised version (and my favorite manga ever...) being Takehiko Inoue's manga Vagabond.

However, its for this reason that I believe if Musashi does get introduced his story will be greatly changed from the fictional myth to something that will fit into the context of Toranaga's and the greater plot of Shōgun at large. This could mean making him closer to the historical figure, more of a disgruntled sage than a hot head. If this is the case then I think he will be the new advisor to Toranaga that I mentioned potentially being of importance to the plot earlier. Historically, after his rise to fame, Musashi has advised Tokugawa Ieyasu, the actual shōgun who won the Battle of Sekigahara and who Toranaga is modeled after. So it would make some sense to put him in this role. Also when I go over Kojiro, there's another bit with that kinda fits the tone of Shōgun.

Sasaki Kojiro

Given that Musashi is introduced as a new character, they would have to include Kojiro, his "rival".

In terms of historical fact, Kojiro was kinda of the shit while Musashi was still a rising star and Musashi's victory in a duel against him was what cemented his place in history as a legend. Yet, the way he killed Kojiro was incredibly undignified for someone of his status and just the kind of insane death we've already seen in S1 of Shōgun. A la the shocking death of Toranaga's son Nagakado, (WARNING: GRAPHIC) Musashi rows up to Gānryu island late to their duel and after sharpening his oar into a staff, he slams it atop the skull of Kojiro and affectively bludgeons him to death. That is the end of the great samurai Sasaki Kojiro.

EDIT: I didn’t look over this at all for typos and my autocorrect changed “Sasaki” to Salami 💀

If a more historically accurate Musashi does get included in the next season the writers would be remiss in not including this conclusion to their duel. As violent as it may be.

But that's just a theory... a film theory 💀