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"You will never see the real world" ... "NEVER!!!"

Pro tip: If you make threats like this and don't follow though, no one will respect your villainy.

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this is such a cool scene but the real question is why don't we have the soundtrack from it

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A Time of Traitors in a nutshell ^

as strange as some of the writing choices are, nothing beats the goofiness of the Krux reveal

but the ending comes really close

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Maybe an obvious detail but Nya actually comes out of the same glass of water Kai knocked over, so in a way, Jay was actually right -- that water did bring him closer to Nya.

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Where are Ninjago folks getting their fucking Vengestone cages dawg... Vangelis, Harumi, and Roby had the same Vengestone cages and for WHAT!!! Why is this specific cage design so popular among Vengestone cages...

[agenericplaceholdername]

Even giving him the engineering skills he needs -- vengestone really just nullifies golden power? If the Overlord had created a single vengestone warrior instead of his Stone Army he could have just defeated the FSM? There's nothing in lore that contradicts this ig but it sounds wrong, you know? Could chronosteel contain the FSM's powers?

Genuinely what is this snake? It's mechanical but I doubt Pythor had the engineering talent to design it. And it can disable golden power? The power of the First Spinjitzu Master? Just mass produce these things and you auto-win against the Ninja.

[agenericplaceholdername]

Genuinely what is this snake? It's mechanical but I doubt Pythor had the engineering talent to design it. And it can disable golden power? The power of the First Spinjitzu Master? Just mass produce these things and you auto-win against the Ninja.

[agenericplaceholdername]

To be fair, I don't think learning responsibility necessitates Sora using her powers in selfish ways, it means learning to use them to benefit others, regardless if she'd use them for herself. And she doesn't initially want to train, to help Kreel, or use them in the Cloud Kingdom. The only time she actively wants to do something is when she wants to fix the mistake she blames herself for -- creating the Photac -- so the self-doubt is earned here.

I do agree seeing an actual philosophy difference would probably be better, although having Sora reject the idea that change can be positive does seem to contradict the fact that she was willing to run away and you lose the contrast with Arin, for whom life's biggest change was a negative. It would have to be nuanced pretty well to avoid that.

I've always thought an interesting route would have been to build off her line in E3 where she asks why the Ninja live in the Monastery away from all the people they save. Sora lived in a society where people mindlessly consumed pro-Imperium, pro-Claws of Imperium propaganda. She herself looked up to Dr. LaRow. Maybe she viewed Arin's heroes the same way initially, and meeting Lloyd would slowly disabuse herself of that notion. Maybe she doesn't want to tap into her powers because she's afraid Lloyd will one day show his true colors and use them for his own benefit like Imperium used her mechanical abilities. Sure, he saved Arin, Sora, and Riyu. He's also an insanely talented warrior who's been missing from the world for years in a reclusive monastary. Can he really be trusted? Then the whole rejecting parents thing at the end would be just as much her embracing Lloyd and the Ninja as her family after doubting them for much of the season, instead of immediately going along with them. This would also have to be handled carefully (since the audience is Ninja-sympathetic and could dislike Sora because of this) but it could even be used as a way to air some of Harumi's original grievances against the Ninja (they mess up, can't save everyone, etc) while actually having them be addressed instead of shrugged off since she's a villain, and show how Lloyd's changed as a response.

That being said, I still think the arc as written works fine. Maybe Sora's design doesn't look like someone who lacks confidence in herself. But as written, it makes sense why she does given her history in Imperium, there are various points where she changes her mindset about something, and it culminates in an emotional moment that does show Sora has changed. Yes, she was willing to run away before. Now she's willing to stand up and fight -- not just to fix an old mistake like with the Photac, but for her new family. Some of the dialogue is definitely repetitive.

I think we get enough fun Lloyd in S1 to justify the increased angst in S2, and honestly the less I try to think about the Lloyd stuff in Crystalized the better. Could S4 Lloyd be having the same struggles? Maybe! Honestly the main difference between Lloyd a decade ago and now is that they realized he should have a personality. I agree his struggles could be more mentor related -- one of my criticisms post-S2P1 was that his visions had nothing to do with being a mentor. Now that one of his students has left him I think we could be ready for some actual teaching drama, e.g. how to actually be a good teacher? He should have the confidence now that one of his students won the Tournament of Sources, but he should work on actually learning how to teach, instead of offering motivation that clearly doesn't always work.

The show (minus the end of episode cliffhangers) is definitely meant for bingeing. That being said, after rewatching Hunted I felt like the same was true there? Post the "building a dragon episode" every episode blurs together until the season finale. The first few episodes of both of S1's parts did seem pretty distinct, but the Imperium sections really did blur together. S2 is even worse here. I feel like it reflects in the episode titles, too, many of which (especially in S2P2) seem pretty generic. I kinda wonder how much of this is that we watch by bingeing too. If every episode was released weekly and there was a week of speculation and discussion of the last episode, would each one be more memorable? For both parts of S2, I told myself I wouldn't watch everything in a day or two, I'd watch an episode at a time. But because they're all available, I broke my promise, and they did blur together.

Tbf the PIXAL thing wasn't a particular reach, given the blog name, description, and the YouTube videos. I guess a Ninjago interesting fact about me is that I love both the Dragon Hunters and Nadakhan's crew. I don't know why. They're probably never showing up again. Despite all this Ninjago stuff my real comfort TV show is Star Trek: TNG. I totally agree with your points on PIXAL (and probably wouldn't be brave enough to disagree if I didn't). Honestly I was never a huge PIXAL fan outside of Rebooted until Prime Empire -- the Detective Zane bit and then her story with Dyer not only sold me but is the one part of PE I actually really like.

By the end of the original run she occupied a similar spot to Wu in the "not a ninja but still way more important than the average side character" slot. Wu's a ghost now so maybe that opens up more room for PIXAL?

Okay, everyone get in the comments and let me know why you love dragons rising so that maybe I can reverse engineer why I don't-

[agenericplaceholdername]

Agree with you on the side villains. Dorama had a fun gimmick but I hope we're done with him. I like the Rapton betrayal, I think it's set up well and is in character. I think all the Claws of Imperium have a strange visual design tho -- why are the foot soldiers of the empire of uniformity than believes in human supremacy in outfits that make them look like insect robots? Cinder exists. I'm most interested by Jordana because it's unclear what they'll do with her or what her goals are now that she's left Imperium and Ras.

I think the Sora arc hits hard not just because she's left her old "support" system but because she stands up to it. When she was a kid she just ran away (perfectly understandable for a kid, or anyone really) but it's very cathartic to have her take down the system and stand up to a society that shunned her. I think the responsibility thing is very much part of her arc -- it's the theme of the Euphrasia/Cloud Kingdom episode and she outright says she's learned she has a responsibility to use her powers in the S1P1 finale. Then she uses that in P2 to take down Imperium. It's only over the course of S1 that she gained a new support system that validates her so she can not just reject Imperium but assert her own value.

Totally see how the arc kinda falls into a similar pitfall as the original show's "female character learning confidence" arcs even if I think that it's way better here since Nya's arcs in S5, 11, and 15 all came after years of her being capable and confident. Sora's S2 story is very different and I think better because of the S1 story. Her increase in confidence and optimism parallels Arin's loss of confidence and optimism as well.

I agree on the mixed messaging of the Lloyd arc. My view on Lloyd angst is that it helps make the lighthearted Lloyd stuff stronger. I enjoy him being a silly guy in S11-14 because we got to see him at his lowest point in S8-S9. That balance is important.

Arin just goes through it, and I think that the real tipping point for him was learning that Wu caused the Merge and that the other Ninja basically don't care. The Sora lie just drives a wedge between the two personally since Arin is having his own self-confidence issues.

Obviously these are our central, main character stories but I also really like the smaller character interactions and Wyldfyre in general. I get that this stuff probably means less if the main stuff isn't clicking.

We'll have to see what happens w/ the merge story. If Ras and Arin are together for a prolonged period of time in S3 and we still get no answers then that's a problem. We could go in circles forever on this though.

I feel like we kinda did get a strong focus on Imperium tho -- E6-10 and E18-20 were all set in Imperium (8 22-minute episodes, just like 4 of the original seasons). Maybe it was just the expectation game. Big Hunger Games fan here.

I do wonder if there's a Ship of Theseus type thing here -- by now, the original writers are long gone, along with the original creators, the main characters are changing, the animation is different (and certainly more vibrant). And I think some of the planks of the original show had rotted, or were maybe always rotten and needed to be switched. But at some point maybe the show is too different? Or whatever plank made it special for you is now gone? I mean, I really like Dragons Rising, and if they maintain the things I like, I'll keep watching. But whenever it ends and we move to a new show or whatever happens, I probably will stop watching. I nearly did after Crystalized, and I wasn't even one of the people who thought it was the worst entry in the franchise (still bad though). I don't like the idea that's it's just part of growing older but maybe it is?

Maybe S3 will open with PIXAL returning and doing what the Ninja couldn't do, Kaiju Protocol-style, and resolve all the running mysteries in an episode.

Okay, everyone get in the comments and let me know why you love dragons rising so that maybe I can reverse engineer why I don't-

[agenericplaceholdername]

Resurrected Garmadon is intentionally obscured from the viewers until he fights Lloyd, which is such a cool detail

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I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how DR's side characters might differ from the original show. I think what it might be is that most Ninjago seasons followed a pattern of introducing a side character relatively early on as a (potential) Ninja ally and then having them work with the Ninja/help one of them with their character arc/have an arc themselves and are present throughout the rest of the season. Lloyd in S1, Misako in the latter half of S2, PIXAL in S3, Skylor in S4, Ronin in S5, Harumi in S8 (until the twist), Faith in S9, Garmadon in S10, Akita in the Ice Chapter, Vania in S13, Twitchy Tim in The Island, and Bentho in S14. Interestingly, the seasons that didn't do this -- S6, S7, the Fire Chapter, S12, and S15 -- all tend to be seen as worse seasons. Granted, that's for other reasons in all these cases, and they're not necessarily worse, but it's just something interesting.

Dragons Rising S1 doesn't do this, probably because it's trying to establish new characters. The roster of recurring characters is larger that Lloyd, Arin, and Sora, but I don't think you can call Kai, Nya, Zane, and Wyldfyre side characters in the same way as these previous examples are. Being a ninja seems to inoculate characters from side character status. The real side characters are Euphrasia, Percival, Frohicky, Arrakore, and Geo. All of them have their own character stories and arcs, but Euphrasia, Arrakore, and Geo are all one episode wonders and don't reappear in the season.

On the other hand, Dragons Rising S2 does follow the original side character route for the most part, as long as you treat the two parts of the season separately (which is how they come off anyway). Rontu, Egalt, Bonzle, Gandalaria, Roby, and Frak all fall into the mold of characters that follow along with the Ninja for a prolonged period of time. The difference is, only Egalt and Frak really have character arcs. Bonzle has a ton of character development but I wouldn't really call it an arc.

So if a character needs to feature in multiple episodes and have an arc, then DR just has Frohicky, Percival, Egalt, and Frak over the course of 40 episodes. Personally, I like a lot of the DR side characters, regardless of their smaller screen time. Meeting Euphrasia and Arrakore is important for Sora's arc in S1, Geo's just a solid guy who helps Sora and Cole's characters, I think the Rontu/Egalt dichotomy is fun, Bonzle is a solid character and I really like the Wyldfyre & Egalt stuff. Interested to see more of Frak. That being said, how side characters function structurally in DR is definitely different than the original show, and maybe it's harder to have strong thoughts on characters who are less present or don't have arcs. Would love to hear your thoughts on some of the reoccurring side villains -- Dorama, Rapton, Cinder, Jordana. Personally super interested in Jordana's story post-S2.

The mini-cliffhangers seem like they're written for a version of DR that releases weekly. I do not understand why they exist in a show that drops in batches on Netflix. And even when Ninjago released weekly I don't think episodes ended like this so who knows.

I think we just disagree on Sora's story in S1. Is it cliche? Absolutely. Is it boring, messy, and not cohesive? Didn't come off that way to me. I think there's a pretty clear through line of her being pessimistic, not accepting she has powers, messing up and not wanting to use them, and then from E5 onward learning to be more optimistic and accepting the responsibility of her powers. She still has underlying trauma related to her childhood in Imperium and thinks of herself as unworthy and "broken," something the final stretch of S1 resolves when she fights Dr. LaRow, brings down Beatrix's regime, and stands up to her parents. I'm a big fan.

Lloyd's S2 arc is definitely worse, but I don't think the idea of intrusive visions as an allegory for anxiety is inherently wrong, especially when those visions are explicitly stated to not necessarily come true (and they don't -- from subtle differences to Lloyd just not losing to Zeatrix as he thought he would). There is development there -- how Lloyd handles stress is different by the end of S2. It does fall into the category of "well-intentioned but flawed" that a lot of Ninjago stories do though.

We haven't talked about Arin's character, but I think the longer story arcs really help him because you get this slow burn as things just pile up. The scene with everyone using their elemental powered grappling hooks while he watches? Love it. They do repeat some points a little too much but the steady loss of trust in the Ninja is tragic. Obviously they still could mess it up but I like what we've got so far.

It's totally fair to care more about the Merge than the characters. I just think that when it comes to storytelling promises that were kept/broken, the story is just not designed to go into the details of the nature of the Merge. The story about Imperium isn't a distraction from the "real story," it is the real story. Where the Merge sent people and why it happened is a good question, but we don't spend enough time on it that it seems like there's story setup that is unnecessarily dragged out. It's just something to keep in mind in the background. Instead, we focus on how the Merge impacted the characters that are still around -- Lloyd, Arin, and Sora (and later the bulk of the original crew + Wyldfyre). We'll get to the full merge lore stuff in a season (or four) so if it's not a satisfying explanation, that'll be really disappointing, but for now I can wait.

You're right that most of the Oni Trilogy "plot holes" are small questions -- I wouldn't call them plot holes because they're not necessarily contradicting anything -- but "what happened to the Oni" is an important question Hunted asks and we never get the answer beyond Garmadon's allusion to a darkness in the Departed Realm. I guess they just died then (and escaped somehow? I would say though the Realm Crystal but I doubt that can access the Departed Realm. Totally unrelated though).

I agree that most of the DR setups that have been followed through are not big questions. That was more to show that it's not like mysteries or story threads are just being piled up with no payoff.

I think whether not answering what caused the Merge is "avoiding the question" comes down to the answer and what the big picture plot of DR is. If it turns out that the Merge was part of some intricate cosmic chess game involving Ras' master, who turns out to be the big bad of DR, it'll make sense why they didn't (and couldn't) reveal it in S1 or S2. You wouldn't reveal the murderer in chapter 2 of Christie novel for the same reason. On the other hand, if it's a smaller detail (like the murder weapon), then it'll make far less sense. I agree with your Cole point 100% because in narrative the protagonists know something we don't, and if it was a big secret that we're not ready to learn, then the protagonists shouldn't know it either.

Thanks for clarifying about the tags -- still new to this so I'm trying to figure out the unspoken norms here. I agree Seabound isn't about Merlopia. It wouldn't necessarily be a better season if we learned about Kalmaar's life in school, or where Bentho came from. But S1 is about Imperium as it relates to one of our protagonists. It's not just the origin of our main antagonists -- the society itself is an antagonist, which is something we haven't seen in Ninjago before. Are technologically advanced dystopias that restrict individual expression overdone in media? Absolutely. Are they overdone in Ninjago? Not really. And it's not just copy-pasted Hunger Games -- the "mindless beasts" thing is relevant and called back well, the social ostracization of Imperium defines Sora's character and is relevant to her relationship with Jordana, the dragon hunter aesthetic is cool (though not unique to Ninjago).

I think at the end of the day, I like the character stories of DR and am therefore more inclined to look favorably on other aspects of the show and give the mysteries and lore stuff more time. Maybe the side character stuff just comes down to character vibe and not story structure. I think we probably agree on a lot of things directionally (liking Sora's S2 story and Kai and Wyldfyre's dynamic, among others, while disliking some of the writing choices and wishing they'd settle on some big mysteries while resolving some of the needless ones like Cole's journey) but I'm just slightly shifted more towards the "I like it" side of the spectrum on most points.

Okay, everyone get in the comments and let me know why you love dragons rising so that maybe I can reverse engineer why I don't-

[agenericplaceholdername]

Sensei Wu and Hanlon's Razor [Ninjago Theory]

"I see you've found the Allied Armor, Morro, yet you haven't summoned your friends." -- Sensei Wu, Winds of Change (Possession E1)

This quote makes absolutely no sense. Let's break it down:

First, Wu makes it clear that he recognizes the Allied Armor of Azure. This makes sense -- he's been around a long time, for all we know, he was involved with putting it in the Ninjago Museum of History. But wait a second, if Wu knew about the allied armor, why not use it in Season 4? The Greatest Fear of All ends with the Elemental Masters all split up. The ninja spend time recruiting random civilians in The Corridor of Elders. Couldn't Wu have just gotten the Allied Armor and summoned the Elemental Masters along with other allies? And of course, Garmadon didn't need to sacrifice himself since the Allied Armor can summon ghosts from the Cursed Realm!

But fine, maybe he didn't think about it given the limited time, or he didn't know where the Allied Armor was. Maybe it got put in the Ninjago Museum of History post S4. But he could have used it to free Garmadon afterwards! Enough time passes between seasons for Wu to open a whole tea shop. He seriously didn't realize the key to bringing back his brother was just in Ninjago City sitting there? Did he even look? The only reasonable explanation is that he did know, but wanted Misako for himself and then let his nephew's father remain trapped in Ninjago hell!

Now let's look at the second part. What friends are Wu referring to? He could have said other ghosts, but "friends" implies a specific group of people. The only people Morro summons later are other ghosts. Was Morro friends with Wrayth, Soul Archer, Bansha and Ghoultar while he was alive? If so, how did they escape the Cursed Realm? Or were they alive as well, and cursed later? But if Wu knew that, how come he didn't know that Morro had been cursed? He says, "I am saddened he was banished to the Cursed Realm" in Ghost Story, not "I was saddened," implying that he only found out upon seeing Morro possessing Lloyd. At no point in the flashbacks in Ghost Story do we see Morro interacting with the living or ghostly forms of his ghost crew. But they can't have first met while in the Cursed Realm, since then Wu wouldn't be asking Morro about them!

The cleanest explanation was that Morro was friends with them when they were all alive, Wu knew them, and then figured that upon returning to Ninjago, Morro would summon his friends (now apparently mortals in their ~60s) using the Allied Armor. A mystical artifact with the unique power to summon ghosts probably wouldn't have been necessary to get the gang together, but I don't see how Wu could have known that Morro's friends are ghosts if he didn't know Morro was one until he encountered Morro at Steep Wisdom!

Lastly, one final question. This is unrelated to the opening quote, but still along the same line of thinking. Why does Wu not tell the Ninja that water can stop a ghost? Yes, I understand why it has to be done for plot reasons. But even if Wu doesn't realize that Morro's friends are ghosts, he knows that a) Morro is a ghost and b) Morro can summon ghosts. He tells Nya later, but not the Ninja? Yeah, yeah, "There's something I never told you" is a common Wu line, but this isn't Wu hoping to avoid unpleasant conversations about his past failures (Morro, Aspheera) or details about villains Wu thinks are either gone (the Overlord) or that he thinks he can fight alone (Acronix). He knows a key weakness of an enemy who has stolen his nephew's body. It's very possible hitting Morro with water would force him out of Lloyd's body. Any ghosts Morro summons can be defeated by water. And Wu says NOTHING????

Hanlon's Razor states, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." So which is Wu?

TL;DR: Wu knowingly left Garmadon to suffer in the Cursed Realm, has seemingly impossible-to-know knowledge about Morro's friendships, and forgets(?) to tell the Ninja their enemy's only weakness.

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This is mostly a joke, but I'd love to hear some alternate, in-universe, explanations for Wu's actions here!

[agenericplaceholdername]

Forgot how bittersweet this ending is. I'm glad Lloyd finds his family later.

[agenericplaceholdername]

Given how many Ninjago villains were just lying in wait this whole time, it really makes you wonder what the heck they were thinking when previous villains revealed their endgame, if they had any plans for how to deal with it if the ninja couldn't, etc. What did Krux think when the mother of his Vermillion hordes showed up in his city; Did he think the Great Devourer sensed her children and was looking for them?

What was his thought process when her venom reawakened the Stone Warrior exhibit, when an entire Stone Army wreaked havoc on the city... And then returned to do so a second time, with most people being infected by Dark Matter? When he saw a giant demonic dragon on the horizon, did Krux panic and wonder if his Vermillion could handle the Overlord and his indestructible army, or was his plan to just lay low, wait for the return of Acronix and the other Time Blades, and then use Iron Doom to prevent all of this from happening? And when Cyrus Borg revamped all of Ninjago City with his technology, Krux must've been relieved when he undid those changes later on.

The Island of Darkness rising from the ocean, realistically, must've displaced an enormous amount of water, and thus had a huge impact on the global ecosystem. I think it would've been cool to have this mentioned by Kalmaar during Seabound; Maybe he points to this as an example of how the land dwellers continue to disrupt their world and steal from it, lifting the ocean floor to the arid surface and suffocating countless creatures?

We sort of have an idea for what Harumi was thinking when the Overlord attacked, twice; Her reaction to him is horror, and she initially refuses to work with the embodiment of evil. So she must've been scared again, and hoping Garmadon would stop the Overlord... Did she see and recognize Garmadon's body, mutated by the Overlord's possession?

When the Serpentine began to return, one tribe at a time, was Chen concerned about the Anacondrai coming back, and them getting in the way of his plan to take over Ninjago with his impostor Anacondrai? Was there relief when it became apparent that Pythor was the only survivor? What did he plan to do about the Great Devourer, or Dark Matter suddenly infecting entire swathes of the population?

I imagine the Overlord wasn't too concerned with Wojira's flooding of Ninjago City; If Kalmaar succeeded, he'd kill the ninja, the only ones who could stop him. We know Water and Wind come from Wojira, and Nya is susceptible to Vengestone; So would the Overlord's Vengestone army be enough to disable Wojira's powers? Could she be crystalized? Given that the Overlord is the embodiment of all darkness, evil, and hatred, did he not mind at all if some other villain got close to taking over the world, since it'd just make him stronger, and spreading this sort of despair was already his MO?

[agenericplaceholdername]

why is my heart breaking over lego people

[agenericplaceholdername]

100% true, plus Arin's greatest fear is that his parents would think the Ninja are replacing his "real" family. The idea that Lloyd and Arin have a father-son relationship is something that scares Arin (even if he literally saw Lloyd and Nya as his parents in Rising Ninja, which just makes it more tragic). The Lloyd-Sora father-daughter relationship is Sora finally finding an adult who validates her and she doesn't have to prove herself to.

reblog with an unpopular ninjago opinion im curious HAHA

*this is not a safe space for bullying just a reminder. just some fans sharing some opinions! :)*

[agenericplaceholdername]

This scene gets overshadowed by the "Countershot" one later in the episode, but it's just so good. Egalt's gruff facade finally drops as Wyldfyre, a character who seems to be defined by her temper, displays real emotional maturity informed by her experience with aging dragon-relatives. It helps that the music is great too.