agenericplaceholdername

[agenericplaceholdername]

Brent Miller posted his reaction to the latest DR S3 trailer (which I would recommend watching, he's a funny guy) and something stood out to me. After seeing Wyldfyre do this:

he says, "Hey, you're stealing my power, man!" After finishing the trailer, he comments that, "Somebody's trying to use my ice power or smoke or something." It's possible that he's just reacting to the visual similarity between Wyldfyre's heat power and ice. However, if (as some have theorized), Wyldfyre both has the power to heat things up and cool them down, Brent Miller might have inadvertently spoiled this aspect of her powers.*

(Personally, I don't see any visual difference between Wyldfyre's power here and her power in earlier seasons -- compare her fight with Cinder in the ToS, it's the same power -- but it absolutely makes sense that she should have the power to both raise and lower temperatures).

[agenericplaceholdername]

Congrats to the 43% of people who said Jay/Rogue! I think at this point, it's safe to say Morro won't appear in the marketing, since that would be a huge spoiler and hasn't been hinted at at all, but PIXAL still could (is she in that pod thing from the first teaser?)

[agenericplaceholdername]

it turns out Doc was remembering incorrectly. water is of the flow source dragon, not motion. thanks Glen Lakin!

well that doesn‘t completely mess up every theory about which elements come from which source dragon

(seriously tho this is pretty cool info and something i hope is explored more in the future)

[agenericplaceholdername]

Reminder that the episode "Never Trust a Human" has

Garmadon calling Serpentine "slimy" and untrustworthy (a bigoted opinion which rightfully causes Wu to attack him, only to be proven right by the episode's end)

Wu deciding, because one Serpentine tricked him, to become racist (speciesist?) against all of them

The villain of the season not becoming racist against all humans (despite what the episode title would suggest)

[agenericplaceholdername]

Dragons Rising legit be like "yeah we live in this amazingly awesome penthouse at the center of one of the busiest cities in all the merged realms, but maybe one day we'll get a real place to live :P"

[agenericplaceholdername]

We are 43 days away from the Netflix release of DR S3P1, and thus far we've seen 3 promotional videos, with a total of 140 seconds of S3P1 content. How does this compare to past DR marketing cycles?

S1 P1: 2 videos, 90 seconds of content

S1 P2: 1 video, 18 seconds of content

S2 P1: 3 videos, 148 seconds of content. If you count "Social Media Ninja"*, then 4 videos, 245 seconds of content

S2 P2: 2 videos**, 99 seconds of content

So while it might seem like we haven't gotten much, we've actually been shown roughly the same amount of content (if not more) for this installation of Dragons Rising as the other installations at this point in the marketing cycle.

----------------------------------

*Social Media Ninja wasn't advertised as a clip from S2P1, even though it was. I remember a lot of confusion at the time as to what it was

**The entire season had been uploaded to Peacock but that was a mistake

[agenericplaceholdername]

We are 43 days away from the Netflix release of DR S3P1, and thus far we've seen 3 promotional videos, with a total of 140 seconds of S3P1 content. How does this (the amount of unique promo content ~6 weeks away from release) compare to past DR marketing cycles?

S1 P1: 2 videos, 90 seconds of content

S1 P2: 1 video, 18 seconds of content

S2 P1: 3 videos, 148 seconds of content. If you count "Social Media Ninja"*, then 4 videos, 245 seconds of content

S2 P2: 2 videos**, 99 seconds of content

So while it might seem like we haven't gotten much, we've actually been shown roughly the same amount of content (if not more) for this installation of Dragons Rising as the other installations at this point in the marketing cycle.

----------------------------------

*Social Media Ninja wasn't advertised as a clip from S2P1, even though it was. I remember a lot of confusion at the time as to what it was

**The entire season had been uploaded to Peacock but that was a mistake

[agenericplaceholdername]

I agree the narrative frames Arin's decision to go off with Ras as far more negative than anything Lloyd is doing. That being said, I don't think the narrative lets Lloyd entirely off the hook. Ras accurately points out that "sending in one of the youngest ninja, and the only one without an elemental power, into enemy territory" is a bad idea -- and it's during this interaction that Ras is able to dramatically progress his plan to convince Arin to join him, so it's not like Ras is portrayed as wrong. Lloyd later shrugs off Arin's reveal that Wu admitted he caused the Merge, which isn't presented positively as well.

I do think you're right that the narrative could go further. Some decisions Lloyd makes are bad (e.g. never following up with Sora when she says she wants to talk about Arin). He also only puts a token amount of effort toward addressing Arin's sense of worthlessness (he repeatedly tells Lloyd he wants to have an elemental power, he says outright that he feels "useless") and Lloyd's only response is "every Ninja has a different path" and "you're never useless." These aren't harmful necessarily, but I don't think the show pretends these are sufficient and that Arin is in the wrong to not see them that way.

I also am pretty sure Lloyd never says the words, "We'll find your parents" to Arin on screen. (Sora does several times, but Arin blames Lloyd). That being said, Lloyd does send Arin and Sora on a mission whose sole intent is to find Arin's parents. Arin also (pre-S2P2 talk with Ras) states outright that "Lloyd promised we'd find my parents before" (S2, E15). I think it's supposed to be understood that Arin is not imagining some conversation here (notably, Sora, who is standing next to him, does not correct him).

My fundamental point about "decisions in the moment that seem right" is that yes, Lloyd says nice things when he goes to confort Arin. But these actions are all entirely reactive and only operate on the surface level. Lloyd's fundamental philosophy, as he learned from Wu, is to solve problems after they arise instead of preempting them. He's too busy trying to emulate a guy who constantly kept secrets that he's not focusing on how his inaction is hurting one of his students. Providing positive reinforcement only when Arin fails instead of making an active effort even to address Arin's underlying concerns is part of the issue here. I think I'm probably doing more work here to explain this than the story is, so maybe I'm missing the writers' intentions and misjudging where the story will go (and even if I'm right, the narrative could telegraph this better). But if this is the way the story goes, it means that the underlying wrong action is the entire way Lloyd teaches, so that each decision seems right yet there is still a problem and it's not the capriciousness of the universe.

As for wanting to be like Wu being a bad thing, I think the Phantasm Cave scene is probably the clearest evidence of this. As for specific decisions done wrong, I think that S1, E3 and S1, E11 are very clear in that Lloyd tried to emulate Wu and it only made things worse. S2 isn't as obvious -- minus the aforementioned scene that looks the viewer in the face and says "Lloyd is putting too much pressure on himself to be like Wu!!!"

You're right that Lloyd being the green ninja is the reason he's "there in the first place" in that he wouldn't have been a character in the show if he wasn't a ninja. But I guess I'm just confused as to your objection to his "main character energy" if, while the stuff he does is emphasized, so is everything Arin and Sora are doing? Yeah he's "the conduit" so there's a storyline around his visions in S2P1, but Arin's having a parallel story about his insecurity. Arin and Sora have more to do in S2P2 and arguably most of S1 as well. I guess his stuff is "cosmically important" or something but it's not narratively more important (also despite the cosmic importance of him getting back into the games after his fight with Zeatrix, he loses and it's up to Sora to win).

Maybe this is similar to Lloyd's S9 story, but I also think Lloyd's S9 story actually has a problem in that Lloyd claims that post-Harumi betrayal, he's no longer willing to look for the best in people (S8, E8). Yes, Lloyd loses his faith in himself after this (and also after losing to Garmadon and seemingly losing most of his friends), but at no point does he become more distrustful of others, which does seem like something that makes sense (S11 sorta goes into this w/ Akita). DR's story makes more sense in that Lloyd's only pressure is self-imposed because it's not coming after a betrayal or anything but after he was left alone, not knowing if anyone he knew (minus Kai) was even alive, for years. That level of mental strain probably wasn't great for him. Meanwhile, while Lloyd learns to rally the people, that plot line ends 3 episodes into Hunted, while DR is continuing the Master Lloyd stuff. Basically - it's okay to do a similar story without retreading all the ground (no Garmadon) if you execute it differently and focus on different things.

I think the dream scenario would probably need...

^ I agree with everything in this paragraph.

I agree Kai helps contribute to more positive character growth in Wyldfyre than Lloyd does with Arin, and his effect on Sora is more indirect. That being said, while Kai might be good at imparting character building lessons, that doesn't make him better at teaching things like Spinjitzu (one of the key reasons Arin lost trust in Lloyd).

Maybe Lloyd just shouldn't be a master.

He's clearly not very good at it. He's been trying it since season 5, and his first real students both take FOREVER to make any progress. Sora takes a whole season to unlock her powers, but apparently isn't taught spinjitzu in any of that time- the literal first thing we see taught to any of our characters in the original show. Arin somehow makes backwards progress with Lloyd, and then after doing like three poses with his friend seems to get it instantly.

Like... seems like he's just not very good at teaching. Maybe he should hand the position over to Kai, he's got a natural knack for it, a lot more experience, and a much higher success rate as far as I'm concerned. Master Kai for the win.

[agenericplaceholdername]

All very well said. In full disclosure, I wasn't super happy with Lloyd's arc in S2P1 and then the master role is forced on him in S2P2. By the end of the season, the narrative (through Sora and the SD of Motion) seems to commit to the idea that Lloyd is a successful master, which is questionable. However, I'm not sure this is because the show is trying to avoid its younger audience being exposed to one of its lead characters making mistakes. Arin is introduced as this audience surrogate, optimistic fan boy and he ends S2 having decided to join with the main villain of the series.

Rather, I think that the show is portraying a very real thing -- the decisions we make may seem right in the moment, but have unintended consequences. You mentioned

Even if season three shows us some actual flaws in Lloyd’s mentorship, it will be behaviors we see begin AFTER it has supposedly already driven Arin away

but we have seen those flaws in that we've seen the decisions Lloyd has made that started to push Arin away. The narrative doesn't tell us that these actions are definitely good or bad, it presents them and has some characters defend them but also shows how they hurt Arin. If Lloyd just outright made a bad call it would be easier to solve, but now I think there's the possibility of more depth because it is hard to find a right answer.

Lloyd has been the official leader of the Ninja team definitively since S5, and whatever your thoughts on that, I'm not holding the DR writers accountable for a decision made a decade ago, so the idea that, at least when it comes to saving the world-type decisions (e.g. going after Jay or not), he's probably not gonna make a bad call. If anything, he's too hesitant to make calls of any kind back in S2P1.

That's why the point I'm trying to make is not that there are specific flaws in Lloyd's teaching that can easily be excised. Rather, his entire view of trying to live up to Wu is flawed. We've seen examples of this already, so if the show goes in that direction, it would be after two seasons of buildup. Now, maybe the show won't go so far in this direction that it presents Ras as having some points. Yes, he's obviously very evil and has ulterior motives. That being said, we also have a group of villains who seem to be more "pure evil" than Ras: the Forbidden Five. I don't think it's unreasonable that while the FF serve as our main threats, Ras poses a more fundamental challenge to the Ninja's worldview. Just because Ninjago doesn't really do grey area doesn't mean they can't start now. I don't think the show would say that all of Wu's teachings are wrong, just that the way Lloyd has interpreted them through his desire to be like his uncle is wrong. We'll see what S3 says, especially with a certain returning character who has a history with Wu and his mistakes.

As for the objection that "Lloyd cracking under the pressure of his lineage isn't exactly new," I guess that's true but those stories are universally related to his dad being Garmadon, and typically center around his angst about having to fight his father -- they're his opposition to something. Here, Lloyd has an affirmative goal to be like his uncle.

I nearly entirely agree with your last paragraph. This would be a really subversive and unique for Ninjago character arc, and if executed well I think it would be really interesting. That being said - abandoning the role entirely does seem like needlessly throwing the baby out with bathwater when he does have a student who looks up to him and would probably be pretty hurt by him appearing to abandon her. I think it could still work though, framed as an appropriate move for Lloyd's mental health and that instead of replacing him with someone more capable (since much like Kai and Wyldfyre, I think Lloyd and Sora have their own bond), the whole original team are teachers. We already seem to be moving in that direction with Cole and Frak, but we don't need to separate students like this. Each original Ninja has something to offer the new ones, and can do it together. That can happen alongside a story where Lloyd a) learns he doesn't have to be like Wu and b) as you said, tying his self esteem to his success as a master.

On the stuff in the tags:

I do feel like you've given Kai a little too much credit with Wyldfyre. Yes, she should learn more control pre-learning Spinjitzu. But Kai wanted Wyldfyre to learn more precision back in S1, E11 in the Dragon Core Temple, starts to teach her it in S1, E20 back at the monastery when they're shooting at those cans, and yet in the ending of S2P1 Wyldfyre still lacks precision when she's removing the Wolf Mask helmets from Kai and Sora (when she burns Kai's hair) and in the start of S2P2 when she's fighting the Lava-Tides in Kreel's Junkyard. That's despite whatever time skip between S1 and S2 that made Arin so frustrated he hadn't learned Spinjitzu yet. And in the start of S2P2, she disagrees with the statement, "There's more to being a Ninja than Elemental Powers," so clearly Kai hasn't gotten to that part of her training (a lesson Kai has learned repeatedly).

I'm not sure how important the Green Ninja title is -- very few characters refer to Lloyd as the Green Ninja aside from as description (Kai is the Master of Fire, Jay is the Master of Lighting, Lloyd is the legendary Green Ninja) and that's really just because they can't call him the Master of [energy? life?] since no one (but Roby?) seems to know what his element is. Him being the leader of the team was established long ago semi-independently of his title (apparently everyone else is bad at it, or so S5 wants us to believe) and he started teaching Arin and Sora since he was the only Ninja at the monastery at the start of DRS1. Kai has already taken on a student, and Cole might be doing the same with Frak. Yes, Lloyd has plenty of focus and (unlike the other original Ninja) is one of the main protagonists. But is that because he's specifically the destined Green Ninja? I think Lloyd got some undue focus in the 11 minute era but I wouldn't blame that on him being the Green Ninja specifically, and at that point the show had him on equal footing with the other 5 ninja. DR is a new show where Lloyd is on unequal narrative footing with the original crew, but he doesn't have unfair focus over the other two protagonists, Arin and Sora. Yes, his family ties are relevant, but only insofar as they relate to his uncle, an important character in his own right and someone Lloyd was close to. Lloyd being the FSM's grandson is used as a gag, and his relationship with his dad hasn't even been mentioned after 40 episodes.

Maybe Lloyd just shouldn't be a master.

He's clearly not very good at it. He's been trying it since season 5, and his first real students both take FOREVER to make any progress. Sora takes a whole season to unlock her powers, but apparently isn't taught spinjitzu in any of that time- the literal first thing we see taught to any of our characters in the original show. Arin somehow makes backwards progress with Lloyd, and then after doing like three poses with his friend seems to get it instantly.

Like... seems like he's just not very good at teaching. Maybe he should hand the position over to Kai, he's got a natural knack for it, a lot more experience, and a much higher success rate as far as I'm concerned. Master Kai for the win.

[agenericplaceholdername]

You raise a lot of good points. Measuring Lloyd's abilities by the success of his students shows he isn't a terrible one (Sora is proof) but not a great one (Arin is proof). Much of my original post was a counterargument to this (very common) point. It is still pretty funny that Arin does Spinjitzu after a minute of Ras's teachings but that's definitely an oversimplification of all of Lloyd's work.

As for the other Ninja, I totally agree that Kai is more mature and developed than Lloyd. That being said, Wyldfyre doesn't always listen to him (see her sneaking on the Bounty). I will also push back on the idea that it's reasonable that Wyldfyre hasn't yet learned Spinjitzu, if you think it's unreasonable that Sora hasn't learned Spinjitzu. She hadn't unlocked her powers at all when Lloyd first met her, having only discovered their existence hours beforehand, while Wyldfyre had been using hers for years when Wyldfyre started training. I think Wyldfyre would probably love to learn Spinjitzu given how much she loves fighting. I included Cole only because he taught Frak (in ~10 seconds no less) how to use an entirely different elemental power.

That being said, solely in the context of the story, I think that Kai is probably better qualified to be a teacher, though I think it's hard to tell only because we spend more time with Master Lloyd, so Kai's potential struggles aren't part of the story.

I think your idea of Lloyd learning to delegate responsibility would be a fine story to tell. We did spend an episode on that ("The Temple of the Dragon Cores", S1 E11) but it was played for laughs. That being said, it doesn't answer your original point in the tags -- "why is Lloyd unsuccessful for no particular reason," unless the answer is: he's just naturally bad, other people are just naturally better at teaching. I don't think that would be a particularly satisfying resolution on its own.

I think the show is going in the direction of saying that Lloyd's desire to be like Wu is his big problem -- it leads Sora and Arin to sneak out in "Crossroads Carnival," it leads him to take on too much responsibility in "The Temple of the Dragon Cores," and his greatest fear is not living up to Wu in "Beyond the Phantasm Cave." In S2P2 the title of Master is given to him by Egalt and Rontu, who tell him he'll live up to the legacy of Wu. Just a few episodes later he learns that Wu caused the Merge and he loses one of his students. S3 is supposed to bring back a student Wu lost, so I think(?) the endpoint of this arc is Lloyd learning he doesn't have to be just like Wu; he can be better.

I don't think this is solved just by delegation either -- Lloyd makes the correct move to have Kai train Wyldfyre. Most of his stress in S2 comes from the visions he's having and his fear about letting down the people he cares about. So long as he's the Green Ninja, I don't think that is going away. I like the idea of Lloyd having less "main character energy" on paper, but a story about someone learning to put less pressure on themselves works better when we see them turning down help from others, which (aside from in "The Temple of the Dragon Cores") Lloyd isn't doing. He even asks Egalt and Rontu to be the Ninja's masters in "Enter the City of Temples" and they turn him down.*

This explanation also doesn't explain why Lloyd failed with Arin either, but I think it comes closer. Lloyd rigidly applied Wu's teachings while being unable to understand that Ras's ideas (while very flawed) are not without merit. Upon hearing that Wu caused the Merge, he barely acknowledges it. Like Wu was (literally) family to Lloyd, Lloyd sees Arin as family, yet Arin doesn't see Lloyd that way (or at least is trying to avoid seeing Lloyd that way, since that, to him, would be an insult to his parents). Lloyd's connection to Wu is the root at the "Lloyd's greatest asset" thing I mentioned earlier, since Wu is literally Lloyd's family.

-----------------------------

*I totally get the idea that it would be a better story if Lloyd wasn't delegating work already, and he would have to learn to delegate. My take is that I'm gonna wait and see what the narrative settles on (and if it settles on nothing, then I'll be disappointed).

Maybe Lloyd just shouldn't be a master.

He's clearly not very good at it. He's been trying it since season 5, and his first real students both take FOREVER to make any progress. Sora takes a whole season to unlock her powers, but apparently isn't taught spinjitzu in any of that time- the literal first thing we see taught to any of our characters in the original show. Arin somehow makes backwards progress with Lloyd, and then after doing like three poses with his friend seems to get it instantly.

Like... seems like he's just not very good at teaching. Maybe he should hand the position over to Kai, he's got a natural knack for it, a lot more experience, and a much higher success rate as far as I'm concerned. Master Kai for the win.

[agenericplaceholdername]

This is actually really interesting to consider -- I'm not sure if you meant this as a prompt for discussion or not, but I suppose based on the length of this response I had some thoughts to say. I'm not sure I believe all the arguments made here, but just an alternate perspective.

To be fair to Lloyd, despite the years since S5, only in S7 does he actually try to be a master (which he succeeds at by the end of the season) and at no point does he take on students (until DR).

As for learning Spinjitzu, the Ninja learn Spinjitzu in the pilots by doing the training course a couple of times and suddenly "the key is ready to be found" when they fight the skeletons. Lloyd learns Spinjitzu after 0 training (he complains to Kai, "When will I learn Spinjitzu?" in the same episode* that he does Spinjitzu for the first time, with zero Spinjitzu training in between** -- must be a Green Ninja thing). Nya learns Spinjitzu off screen - and it's unclear how long this took (although she had been training on the same course as the Pilots Ninja and had been able to do Spinjitzu when possessed by the Overlord). We know it took weeks for Wu to teach Aspheera Spinjitzu.

Much like Sora, Lloyd and Nya also take a whole season to reach their true potentials through Wu's training. Meanwhile, the other four unlock the true potentials only after Wu leaves them. And despite Wu's demands to train, it's only the competition to become the Green Ninja and the later threat of the Serpentine that forces Kai, Jay, Cole, and Zane back into shape to begin with. Meanwhile, Lloyd learns from his mistake of directly copying Wu in "Crossroads Carnival" (S1, E3) and lightens up, causing Sora to be slightly more open to training in the first place.

I'm not entirely sure what's up with Arin's Spinjitzu, given that after learning it from Ras's teachings, there are red shatterspin-esque particles in it. We also never see Frak do Spinjitzu, so it seems like what prevented Arin from doing Spinjitzu was not an inability to do the technique (if it was, then Frak would know the technique as well) but some sort of mental block which Arin conquered or suppressed by accepting Ras's teachings of "taking from life what you need" and "forcing the world to work the way you want it to."

Lloyd's students also do learn quite a bit from him, with the Ras fight in "The Battle of the Second Monastery" (the S1P1 finale) designed to show how far they've come by beating the adversary who took them out easily in the season premiere. Season 2 walks back on this with Arin upset about how little he's progressed. That being said, while Lloyd doesn't teach him Spinjitzu, Arin still has learned from Lloyd. Ras tells him he hasn't gotten any better from their first fight, but he's lying. When Ras first fights Arin, he stops Arin's kick with one hand and throws him to the ground, ending the fight in under five seconds. When Ras fights Arin in "The Forest of Spirits" (S2, E9), he still beats Arin with ease, but Arin is far more resilient and Ras uses his hammer against an unarmed opponent. Lloyd also helps motivate Sora in the Tournament of Sources and (sorta) provides her with the wisdom that helps her win the whole thing.

Kai might be a better teacher - I'm not sure. He doesn't teach Lloyd Spinjitzu (he learns that on his own) and I don't know how much credit he gets for training Lloyd generally (since the rest of the Ninja were involved with that). I don't think he trains anyone after that (minus him telling young Wu to be confident in S9) up until S15, where he's teaching a class of children to "obliterate your enemy before they see you coming" (excessive force)***. He dislikes this so much that when Cole and Zane show up, he leaves with them despite having a kindergarten class later that day. I hope their parents got their money back. He then trains Wyldfyre (on Lloyd's advice) and does successfully teach her self-control. However, much like Lloyd with Arin and Sora, he doesn't teach her Spinjitzu.

Incidentally, both Kai and Lloyd are able to train villages to defend themselves (Kai and Lloyd in S11, Lloyd -- with Arin -- in DRS1).

The show has been building to a contrast between Lloyd and Ras's teaching styles since S2P1, with some focus in S2P2 (thanks to Frak), but now that Arin is with Ras, I'd hope that the writers are planning to address what specifically Lloyd did wrong and how he can learn from it. Right now it seems like Lloyd is a bad master for unspecified reasons -- did he not push his students hard enough? Did he put too much pressure on Arin to be "the greatest of all the Ninja"?**** Was he too overprotective (see him going with Arin and Sora to Imperium vs Wu who intentionally sent the Ninja on missions alone)? Was he not receptive enough to their concerns (like Arin wanting to find his parents)? Is he unwilling to be critical when needed (unlike Egalt)? All of these are potential options but the narrative doesn't pick one, so I get the frustration.

FWIW, my view on it is that Lloyd's biggest asset (and what caused him to lose Arin) is that he views the Ninja (including his students) as his family. He is protective of his family, he inspires them but also puts them on a pedestal, he avoids being critical, etc. This is what ensures Sora feels accepted and ultimately willing to tell her parents that she "has a new family now ... that loves me for who I truly am," unlocking her true potential. Meanwhile, Arin saw the Ninja as a symbol, a symbol of hope -- if they could come back, so could his parents. As he spends more time with them, his greatest fear isn't just that he'll disappoint his parents when he finds them, but that he'll view the Ninja as his family instead of them (S2, E3). Arin leaves for a bunch of reasons, only some of them related to Lloyd, but fundamentally, he becomes fixated on his "real" family, while Lloyd and the rest of them are an imperfect substitute. Ras would never pretend to be family to Arin; their relationship is purely transactional. The story isn't about Lloyd's way of demonstrating how to punch vs Ras's, it's about the difference between them as people -- caring vs efficiency, patience vs force, etc. I hope (assume?) that S3 develops this.

In addition, the closest we get in S2 as to the difference in philosophy between Lloyd and Ras is that Ras thinks people (ie Lloyd) are too busy passively waiting for the world to harmonize. I doubt Lloyd is supposed to learn that Ras is right about this - but a synthesis of those teachings -- one must accept the motion of the universe with a more proactive approach (helping shape the flow of that motion) -- might be the move.

----------------------------------

*Pirates vs Ninja (S2, E2)

**the closest thing we see is him randomly unlocking super strength while training with Jay

***Farewell the Sea (S15, E1)

****(DRS2, E6)

Maybe Lloyd just shouldn't be a master.

He's clearly not very good at it. He's been trying it since season 5, and his first real students both take FOREVER to make any progress. Sora takes a whole season to unlock her powers, but apparently isn't taught spinjitzu in any of that time- the literal first thing we see taught to any of our characters in the original show. Arin somehow makes backwards progress with Lloyd, and then after doing like three poses with his friend seems to get it instantly.

Like... seems like he's just not very good at teaching. Maybe he should hand the position over to Kai, he's got a natural knack for it, a lot more experience, and a much higher success rate as far as I'm concerned. Master Kai for the win.

[agenericplaceholdername]

oh yeah I'm definitely downplaying the Ninja's enemies to a degree that doesn't say anything false but is probably underselling them. it's more of a pushback to the sentiment of "how are the Ninja gonna win this one???" when none of these foes are uniquely powerful. they faced off against a guy who was literally all-powerful and still won.

honestly I think the biggest threat to the Ninja is that they seemingly have no counter to Rox's static spell which freezes them in place indefinitely.

Wow, the Ninja really have a lot of threats this season:

The Forbidden Five... whose main thing is using an ability that at least 4 of the Ninja can counter with 0 effort. Kai alone was able to keep up with Nokt until Nokt used two dozen elemental powers he no longer has.

Lord Ras... who was defeated by Arin and Sora alone a season and a half ago and has never defeated any of the original Ninja in battle. He, his personally trained shatterspin warrior, his army, and Nokt all were forced to retreat at the Ritual of the Blood Moon even after getting rid of Kai.

Thunderfang... the shatter dragon of chaos who we know has defeated many Oni (unlike the Ninja who eliminated the entire Oni army) and whose only other feat is terrorizing a bunch of monks until he was imprisoned under a mountain.

Evil Jay/Rogue... who lost in under three minutes to an opponent who spent half the battle angsting about her lost love.

Arin... whose whole shtick is that he doesn't have an elemental power and only joined Ras to find his parents, not to get revenge on the Ninja.

Am I missing anyone?

[agenericplaceholdername]

Wow, the Ninja really have a lot of threats this season:

The Forbidden Five... whose main thing is using an ability that at least 4 of the Ninja can counter with 0 effort. Kai alone was able to keep up with Nokt until Nokt used two dozen elemental powers he no longer has.

Lord Ras... who was defeated by Arin and Sora alone a season and a half ago and has never defeated any of the original Ninja in battle. He, his personally trained shatterspin warrior, his army, and Nokt all were forced to retreat at the Ritual of the Blood Moon even after getting rid of Kai.

Thunderfang... the shatter dragon of chaos who we know has defeated many Oni (unlike the Ninja who eliminated the entire Oni army) and whose only other feat is terrorizing a bunch of monks until he was imprisoned under a mountain.

Evil Jay/Rogue... who lost in under three minutes to an opponent who spent half the battle angsting about her lost love.

Arin... whose whole shtick is that he doesn't have an elemental power and only joined Ras to find his parents, not to get revenge on the Ninja.

Am I missing anyone?

[agenericplaceholdername]

I'm sure we'll get a Doc Wyatt post on this bc I'm sure someone will ask -- but here's my thoughts. I think all we know for sure is that the war was still raging when the FSM made Ninjago. The idea that Mystake and the Oni she came with are the Oni warlords has never been established to be a canonical fact afaik (just implied by Tommy), and whether their deaths ended the war is pure supposition. In fact, presumably the Oni wouldn't have sent three people after the FSM whose absence caused the Oni's chances of winning to substantially drop. Mystake describes the war as "never-ending" before the FSM appears so it's totally reasonable that it would last a long time even after the FSM left.

The real question is when did time start having a name?

Wait... so the FSM made Ninjago "long before time had a name," but the Oni/Dragon War is now said to have extended to "when the name of time was still new." So when exactly Did this war end? It was my assumption that it was briefly after the death of two of the Oni Warlords, which was BEFORE time had a name.

[agenericplaceholdername]

Dragons Rising Season 3 Teaser 1 notes:

We open with the Forbidden Five in what looks like the Forest of Spirits attacking a truck with two civilians. Are they carrying some important goods, or are the Five just having some fun?

Rox is in the center of the Forbidden Five - is she the leader? Zarkt is the one who attacks the truck - is he the leader? Do the FF have a leader?

We still can't see Kur's face in the teaser (though what little we can see of them + their full appearance on the poster makes them look like a zombie/mummy-type creature). We can see the rest of the Five so it's funny that if not for the poster, we still wouldn't know what Kur's face looks like

Zarkt shoots a blast of something at the truck, causing an explosion. Is this the power of Misfortune? Theroxian magic? Some form of Shatterspin? It has enough damage to elevate the car and crack its windshield

Ras still appears injured from S2 in this next shot, and his hammer is next to him where Arin left it. This will likely be right after the end of S2 (implying little to no time has passed). He doesn't look happy

Lloyd, Sora, Frak, and Riyu are looking at something in what might be a cave. Lloyd is in his climber suit, and I'm assuming all shots with the Ninja in their climber suits happen before they get their Storm suits, so this is also probably early on. Frak has a new outfit, likely courtesy of the Ninja. This seems to confirm he's joining the team, either as a Ninja or if not then at least as a close ally

Rox holds one of the prismatic blades. The camera then switches to a wider shot where Nya (now in her storm suit), Sora, and Riyu are all frozen. Rox is levitating and appears to have captured Arrakore in a small, pyramid shaped object (perhaps similar to the Teapot of Tyrahn). If the Ninja have been frozen by a static spell, it is unclear how they might escape, since not even Rox's soul being ripped out of Jordana's body undid the static spell - it lasted indefinitely until Jordana reversed it.

It's also unclear where this shot takes place - Rox appears to be doing some sort of magic ritual, and there are pillars and buildings, but this seems like a new location

Zane encounters another pod, like the one he was trapped in prior to DRS1. He's in his climber suit (so this is probably early in the season) and the pod opens. Is PIXAL inside? Is this some sort of third person memory where Zane is trying to figure out where he was?

Lloyd, wielding one of the prismatic blades, attacks Drix, who vanishes into a swarm of bugs. Behind him, Kai and Nya are attacking some bugs. Swarm functions similar to smoke, although if the bugs attacking Kai and Nya are also part of Drix's power, then he can either summon or control other insects as well. All 3 Ninja are in their storm suits, so this is probably a bit later

Lloyd now attacks Zarkt with one of the prismatic blades while Sora and Frak (it's really hard to see at the end of the scene but I'm pretty sure Frak is here) run up. Zarkt is surrounded by Dragonian warriors. Interesting, Lloyd is not in his Storm suit despite the prismatic blade storyline already starting. Maybe this takes place after the earlier scene where Lloyd, Sora, and Frak were looking for something? Did they find the prismatic blade?

Nya, Sora, and Riyu attack Dragonian warriors while Rox watches, holding a small, pyramid-like object (is Arrakore inside?). This seems to be the same landscape as the other scene with those 4 characters, so this is all probably part of the same interaction

Thunderfang roars!

Nokt attacks Zane, who is holding one of the prismatic blades (though not in his Storm suit) while a freebooter cowers in the background. Maybe the freebooters found a prismatic blade and now the Ninja and FF are trying to take it?

Kai and Drix fight, with Kai in his Storm suit. Interestingly, there are mushrooms in the background. Is this the Realm of Lee?

Zane (still in his climber suit -- I don't think we ever see him in his storm suit) attacks Dorama's Stage Manager, while Zanth is in the background with rocks pinning her down. Maybe Dorama will prove that an initially funny character who steadily lost his charm can actually have some longevity? They seem to be in a desert or otherwise barren land. Stage Manager has been attacked, with arrows and swords lodged in its body, though that doesn't seem to be impeding it. Did Dorama try to kidnap people who fought back?

Sora fights a Dragonian warrior in a location that looks similar to the place she, Nya, and Riyu were fighting Rox. The ground has an interesting aesthetic to it.

Sora, Lloyd, Frak, and Riyu all fall off a cliff. Frak's new outfit is much easier to see now. I assume Riyu will be able to catch the three of them, although I'm not sure where they are. Lloyd is still in his climber suit, and judging by this pairing, this may take place around the same time as the earlier scene with the four of them looking at something

One of the ugliest vehicles in Ninjago history drives through a cave. Based on the set, Kai and Nya should be inside. The cave actually looks similar to the cavern from S2P2's cavern run. I would hope this scene is more interesting than that one

Zane looks up as the camera shows Nokt holding a prismatic blade while the two of them are on top of a moving vehicle. Given the confined space the two of them were in earlier, it's possible that they were fighting inside this vehicle and Nokt managed to take the prismatic blade

Thunderfang roars and shoots a blast of lightning as something happens around him - either stone is surrounding him or he's growing somehow, or something else. He seems to be in the City of Temples. Maybe this is towards the end of S3P1, though I'm not sure if they'd spoil that so early on. S1P1, S1P2, S2P1, and S2P2 refrained from showing any of those episode batches' final battles in their teasers. This might instead either be part of the flashback that will kick off S3, E1 (the City of Temples happened to be in the first realm, maybe?) or one of Lloyd's visions. Or Thunderfang is released fairly early in S3P1 (say, around episode 5) so this isn't spoiling the end of the season. The poster seems to show the City of Temples so this last explanation seems very plausible. Maybe it's only after Thunderfang is released that the Ninja put on their storm suits?

The Dragons Rising logo has a new, purple, storm effect. This seems to end the idea that every season would be based around one Source Dragon (lightning in S1 for the SD of energy, fire in S2 for the SD of motion) since this new effect is very clearly for Thunderfang, not any of the source dragons (which means the lightning in S1 was probably for Jiro).

The description of the teaser mentions that the Chaos Dragon is the source of the Forbidden Five’s “dark power”. We know that elemental powers come from source dragons, Thunderfang wanted to be a source dragon, and that the Forbidden Five did not inherit their powers from their parents*. Perhaps Thunderfang directly gave them their elemental powers somehow? Maybe they couldn't use them under Thunderfang was free - the only time we see something that's definitely an elemental power is when Drix uses Swarm, and by then, some time has passed (the Ninja are in their Storm suits) so maybe Thunderfang is free by then?

Neither Jay, PIXAL, nor Morro appear in the teaser, although Jay does show up in the poster. That being said, neither do Arin, Cole, or Wyldfyre (they're not in the teaser; they are on the poster) so I don't think that says very much. Jordana doesn't show up on either, but if they're bringing back Dorama and the Freebooters, I doubt they'd drop her

Zane is never seen out of his Climber suit. Is it possible that his storm suit is noncanon and he goes from Climber suit to his new body? Or is that way too big a leap to make?

There's new music in the teaser

*Doc Wyatt said this on BlueSky on Jan. 27

[agenericplaceholdername]

Congrats to the 21.5% of people who said April 11th to April 24th, since S3 P1 is coming out on April 17th!!!! also that teaser has a LOT to discuss...

Make your predictions now before the marketing cycle begins: