#so mdzs is kind of like if there was a side character who was like raven except it was raven whose dad hated her and she wanted his love

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

I know those eyes.

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[qiu-yan]

i'll write a more in-depth post later, but imo one of the reasons for the level of disagreement in this fandom is that many of us readers can see what mxtx is trying to imply about ethics through her work and simply do not agree with her base premise. like i think that there are some conclusions about the various characters in mdzs that mxtx wants you as the reader to draw. you can kind of tell even if you don't agree with those conclusions. more importantly, though, you can also tell exactly what kind of moral philosophy mxtx (consciously or unconsciously) favors, and what she treats as the granularity of morality, so to speak. the most commonly-held positions in the fandom are those mxtx intends for the reader to reach using her own beliefs about ethics as fundamental axioms.

the problem, then, is when the reader does not agree with mxtx's unspoken axioms of morality. if you come into mdzs with a moral framework different enough from what mxtx has (consciously or unconsciously) used to write mdzs, then of course you're going to come to different conclusions regarding the characters or even the object lessons of the story.

or rather, in simpler terms: the rammies, mxtx....the rammies....

[meat-loving-meat]

I’m thinking about Modern!AUs in fanfiction and why sometimes they’re some of my favorite fics and also sometimes the Worst™️. (<-that is a joke. There is no such thing as bad fanfiction, just fanfiction I don’t personally like.)

Because I LOVE Modern!AUs that ask interesting questions about how the setting of a story impacts the characters—how much of the setting can you remove while still being able to recognize the characters in question? All of it? None of it? What new problems would living in a world with planes and phones create for these characters? How are the social and political tensions of the original canon reflected in our own world?

The “problem” (again, not an actual problem, just a personal preference) is that most Modern!AUs COMPLETELY refuse to engage with any of that. They instead become a stale rehashing of the original canon except with lower stakes. Nothing about the modern setting adds interest, and everything interesting from the original setting falls away.

I think that a lot of people write Modern!AU fics to deescalate the conflict of the original canon and give the characters more relatable problems, which isn’t universally terrible, but it can so easily become boring. I don’t WANT to know what it would be like if one of these characters was a florist and the other was a tattoo artist; I want to know what would happen if you gave one of them a gun.

[thebestestbat]

raven and jgy are also kind of complete opposite characters bc jgy's entire teenage and young adult life was about trying to find a way to become his evil father's right hand man and raven's entire teenage and young adult life was about avoiding her evil father's attempts to make her his right hand woman.

[theballadofmars]

RANKING SVSSS CHARACTERS BY HOW LONG THEY WOULD LAST IN FNAF

8. ZHUZHI LANG: the moment he sees an animatronic moving he hides under the table and gives up. Dies night one.

7. SHA HUALING: survives the first night by sheer stubborness. Second night she tries to fight the animatronics. She gets to destroy the cupcake but Chica kills her.

6. YUE QINGYUAN: he listens to the instructions and survives three nights. The fourth night he tried to do it as perfect as possible, gets overwhelmed and dies by a heart attack.

5. LIU QINGGE: he fought lbh for five years and survived he can survive at least four nights. The last night he gets a bit overwhelmed by all he has to do and forgets to check Foxy.

4. SHEN JIU: you could say that for someone who starts the novel dead he would be in a lower position, but sj can multitask and he's not intimidated by the animatronics. He probably kills William Afton the last day.

3. SHANG QINGHUA: I think he would be insecure during the first nights, but by the ends he's just like "meh". He spends the last night writing PIDM.

2. MOSHANG: they don't have the protagonist halo, but again, sqh is great at multitasking and with mobei at his side he has more confidence in his skills. Would survive the five days.

1. BINGQIU / SHEN YUAN / LUO BINGHE: Protagonist halo lbh makes him impossible to kill + millenial sy who probably was a teen when fnaf got out. Both of them survives the five nights, if they're together they complete 20/20 mode and burn the place down when they finish. Sy infodumps and the animatronics are kind of afraid of lbh.

HONORARY MENTIONS:

-MOBEI - JUN: sqh isn't here? Not interested. Doesn't go to work.

-LIU MINGYAN: she's writing toxic yaoi porn the animatronics doesn't want to approach her.

-MU QINGFANG: survives one night, tries to solve the mistery and ends up in the hospital as the victim of the bite of 87.

-QI QINGQI: I think she would come back the second night with an gun ready to shoot the animatronics. She gets fired.

-TIANLANG - JUN: would probably try to fuck Phone Guy. "Oh, the animatronics are possesed? Ha, ha, you're so funny, I love your voice, why don't you help me pass the time? ;)". He gets fired.

RANKING TGCF

RANKING MDZS

[randomness-is-my-order]

you know what is genuinely heartening for me about wei wuxian’s character? we can very easily discern that throughout the course of the series, countless people are ready to kill wei wuxian but on the flip side?? wei wuxian is also someone who is capable of inspiring enough loyalty and love that people are willing to die for him. this is a random reference but i remember having a discussion about a kdrama (strongest deliveryman for anyone who’s curious) and this one person said that it is easy to tell how good of a person the main character is because he has all these people surrounding him, ready to listen, ready to lay down their lives for him. and that is exactly the case with wei wuxian–it is a testament to his character that people like wen qing, wen ning, jiang yanli made the sacrifices that they did, just so he could live on. it is a testament to his character that lan wangji, an absolute paragon of virtue, would 100% die for wei wuxian. and yes, wei wuxian would stick his neck out for each of them as well but it’s the fact he doesn’t have to–that this loyalty is not transactional but something he has inspired within these people simply by being himself and doing the right thing and proving that he is deserving of their loyalty.

it’s the fact that other “leaders” of their world did not only fail at earning loyalty but they were such horrible people that instead, they inspired betrayal within their subjects. it’s so fascinating how wei wuxian’s effect on people compares against the cultivation sect heirs and leaders because, despite all the odds stacked against him, he did a better job at actually leading the cultivation world (the war victory, the advocation for the wen remnants, the inventions that advanced the cultivation society) than any of these political figures at their peaks (and this includes jin guangyao with his watchtowers and lan wangji’s arriving where the chaos is stuff, though these are validly debatable).

okay but point is: it is very easy to make people hate you and want to kill you, atleast in the mdzs world, but it is far more difficult to inspire the kind of loyalty that would make people want to die for you and wei wuxian, somehow, managed to do just that and not just once. also, that the people loyal to him, are some of the most morally upstanding characters–as perceived either by the cultivation world and/or the fandom. isn’t that so telling?

[esoteric-oracle]

//long rambles ahead!

I think what really lingers with me about MDZS is that it's not a novel with a cathartic ending at all. It's a bittersweet story that leaves you slightly hollow. Yes, it's a beautiful and epic romance. It's a piece of social commentary interwoven with a love story and murder mystery. It's a cautionary tale. But it is also very much a tragedy. It's a story about being too late, second chances, and moving on.

By the time the truth of everything JGY and JGS did comes to light, it's 13 years too late. Everything that mattered has already happened. Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan are long dead. Jin Ling is still an orphan. Wen Ning is dead, and sometime in the future, his death will be permanent. Wen Qing was burned to death at the stake for no fault of her own. Nie Mingjue has already spent ten years in a no-doubt agonizing state of un-death, and Lan Xichen will have to bear the guilt of loving both Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao, and by doing so, forsaking them both. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's once-close bond is irrevocably broken, and the woman who sowed the seeds of resentment when they were still children will never face the consequences of her vitriol.

People sometimes say MXTX was too hard on the side characters, and only gave the Wangxian a happy ending, but what stuck with me after finishing the story is how… sad things are. Yes, Wangxian finally get the happy ending they've deserved for nearly 20 years - but at the same time, it's not a happy ending where the people who've wronged them get the consequences they deserve.

Wei Wuxian will spend the rest of his life haunted by guilt and loss, over what happened to Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan, over the loss of the Wen remnants. The rest of his years won't even be lived in the body his parents gave him.

Lan Wangji will spend the rest of his years wondering if he'd chosen to stand with Wei Wuxian when it mattered - would his son have had to grow up without his birth family?

Nie Huaisang is left wondering if his brother had been a little less trusting and had never taken Meng Yao in as a Nie deputy, would his brother have died a less wretched death? Would he have been forced to stoop to ruthless machinations and manipulations to seek some semblance of justice?

Wen Ning will have to live with the knowledge that if he'd been a little less kind, if he'd let Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng die that fateful day - his family would still be alive. The Wens would've won the war; Wen Qing might've even succeeded Wen Ruohan.

No one really gets the ending they deserve. MDZS isn't a story where good people get happy endings, and bad people get their dues. Sure, Jin Guangyao's crimes are revealed and he faces the consequences of his actions. But what about the people who stood by and made him into a monster? If anything, the side characters and antagonists who survive get better than they deserve. The real villain of MDZS - society - will never face retribution. Those cultivators who always believed in their own bigotry and righteousness over and over again, will never face justice.

Do you think those cultivators and the public will ever feel any regret for the innocent people they condemned to death in their own prejudice and blind self-righteousness? Do you think the people who gathered at Nightless City to call for Wei Wuxian's death considered for one second that he was the biggest reason they won the war? When the cultivators who sacked the Wen settlement at the Burial Mounds threw the bodies of the Wens into the blood pool, do you think that was a sign of shame?

Do you think Jiang Cheng will ever regret leading a siege on a small settlement of innocent farmers? Do you think he's haunted by condemning to death the same people whom he owes his life to?

Do you think those people like Yao-zongzhu will ever feel an ounce of remorse for so easily believing rumours and hearsay, and spreading speculation and vitriol about innocent people?

Do you think that unnamed cultivator out there will ever lose a single minute of sleep over smashing in Wen Popo's head?

In the years that follow, Wen Ning will have apologized a hundred times for lives he did not take, crimes he did not commit, because of the name he bears. People, both in-universe, and even readers, will condemn him for actions he could not help, for doing the right thing. But did Jiang Cheng ever apologize for killing his family? Did the Jins ever apologize for their horrific treatment of people in the labour camps?

People will continue to demand that Wei Wuxian apologize for causing the deaths of their friends and family. But how is Wei Wuxian meant to do that? No one ever apologized to him for taking his family away. No one ever apologized for condemning the Wen Remnants to death for crimes they took no part in. The Wens were his family too.

There's so much potential for bitterness and corruption in MDZS. Instead of saving everyone, Wei Wuxian could've stood aside and let the people who tried to kill him die. MDZS could've been a story of succumbing to hatred and grief, but it wasn't. MXTX could've gone on and on about how society wronged the protagonist, but she didn't. The narrative is one of forgiveness and moving beyond past grievances. The story chose to close the story on a positive note. I truly love that aspect of MDZS, where MXTX leaves just enough room for hope and love at the end.

A-Yuan will finally get his closure about the family he lost as a toddler. Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian get their happy ending together after being separated by nearly two decades by war, miscommunication, cruelty, and death.

Wei Wuxian will never regret protecting survivors of an attempted genocide, because it was the right thing to do.

And Wen Ning will still stand in the way and take a fatal blow meant for Jin Ling, despite everything the Jins and Jiang Cheng did to the people he loved.

Because they chose love. Characters like Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning and Lan Wangji have the chance to move on and live a happier life because when they could've succumbed to hurt and fury and resentment, they chose to be kind and do the right thing. Wangxian get their happy ending because they learn to recognize the toxicity of the cultivation society's self-cannibalizing prejudice, and chose to pursue righteousness above personal benefit.

MDZS isn't a story about good people getting good things. Just look at what happened to Xiao Xingchen. There's really nothing satisfying or cathartic about everyone's fates at all. There's no promise about society facing the consequences of their mob mentality or Wangxian actually changing the world together. Even in TGCF, for all its makings of a love story, we get the promise of societal change once Jun Wu is deposed.

It has all the makings to be a tragedy or tale of vengeance of epic proportions - but instead, it's a love story. It's a story about making the best of what you've got, and staying true to yourself and your morals, even if that's sometimes a bitter pill to swallow. It's a story where everything that could go wrong went wrong, but the characters still managed to fight their way to a better ending by choosing kindness. At its core, MDZS is a testament to choosing compassion over cruelty no matter how tragic and hopeless life gets, no matter how long the journey gets. Even though the happy ending is more personal and only applies to the specific characters, even though we don't actually get the promise of their society becoming a better place - we still have the hope that Wei Wuxian's second chance brings. The hope that sometimes, no matter how cruel the world is, some people who deserve it still get their happy endings. That's what makes MDZS such a memorable work of art. That's why it stays with you.

[letteredlettered]

Hi!! Out of curiosity, which MDZS character do u think about the most and why?

The answer is, without a doubt, Wei Wuxian.

Part of what makes WWX special to me is he feels really archetypal and yet the archetype doesn't actually appear in most of the western media with which I'm familiar. The archetype may be super common in eastern media or perhaps, more narrowly, Chinese media, but my point he feels singular to me and therefore interests me, and I'm familiar with mostly western media. The comparisons in this post are all comparisons to western media, since that's what I'm familiar with, and I tried to pick popular examples so that people would understand what I mean.

Wei Wuxian is a protagonist who does bad things. Very bad things. We see that in plenty of western stories, but it's less common in western fantasy. That is, you can read a million stories about professors sleeping with their students and making a very bad muck of their lives; you can watch Breaking Bad and The Sopranos, but more often in western fantasy you're going to have a Good Guy who does good and Bad Guys who do bad.

But, okay. There's certainly a significant portion of western fantasy in which no one is a Good Guy, and everyone is a little corrupt: Song of Ice and Fire, Interview With the Vampire. Wei Wuxian feels very different to me than the protagonists of these media, because Wei Wuxian is trying to be the Good Guy. He's well-intentioned. He is willing to stand against all of society to defy corruption and protect those who are weaker than himself. That kind of protagonist isn't very common in the kinds of "dark" genre fiction that are about the corruption of humanity or the political intrigues of society. If they exist, they're usually martyred and disappear from the narrative because they are too good for this world, too pure.

But the point of WWX is that he is not too good; he is not pure. He is good; he is brave; he is righteous; he stands up for the little guy--but he is also over-confident in his own ability. He overreaches. And people die because of it. Lots of people. And then, after he accidentally murders people due to losing control, he goes mad. The Nightless City massacre occurs not due to an accident but because WWX is careless and angry. He kills a lot more people then.

I will say that western fantasy is full of characters who turn to "the dark side. The threat of "going dark" has become, in fact, an integral part of most portrayals of the hero's journey. But in the media with which I'm familiar, when someone does go dark, they become the villain. They are not allowed to live, or if they live, they must still be vanquished. Star Wars is a quintessential example: Luke Skywalker is tempted by the dark side but resists; he is the hero. Darth Vader is tempted by the dark side and gives in. Even though he turns back at the end, he must still be eliminated.

Of course, there are plenty of villains who reform in such stories and then manage to survive. I think you could say that once resurrected, WWX is reformed in this way. He knows he lost control. He knows he hurt people. He's very sorry about it, and while he still has a drive to put his hand in to help others, I can't imagine him coming to the point where he would lose control again, and I also do not think he has the kind of anger or resentment that would allow him to be so careless and wanton with his cultivation again.

So, in this sense, WWX holds the place of a reformed villain, like Zuko or, say, Angel, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. One thing to note about both of these examples--Zuko is shown to be "on the dark side" because of the family and culture in which he was raised, and also, he was a child. Angel was "on the dark side" because he didn't have a soul. That is, the excuses for why these reformed villains were ever villains at all exonerate them to some extent.

Meanwhile, WWX was a villain because he was full of himself. Like, it's still understandable why WWX was a villain: he sacrificed all the power he had for someone he loved; he still needed power to protect his own life when he was being tortured, and this took him down a dark path; he needed even more power to help the world fight corrupt fascists; he was villainized by society even before he became an actual villain because that society feared and desired his power; he was literally ostracized and rejected by his own family for doing the right thing. But in the end, it wasn't like he had no other choice when he caused the death of JZX. He didn't feel like he had another choice to save the Wens, but if he had not been so over-confident in his ability to control himself, JZX would not have died. And while I find the massacre at Qionqi Pass maybe excusable considering the pressures WWX was under, WWX goes mad after that. Also understandable, but there is no way in which the massacre at Nightless City is excusable. There's just no way to say it wasn't his fault.

Okay, but there are some reformed villains in western fantasy who really were villains because they just made some wrong choices. They were arrogant like WWX, or they were petty and small, or they had a sucky childhood but nothing that should've led them into darkness. These characters do exist, but I find them few and far between (and I will fully admit here that maybe I just haven't read enough western fantasy to come up with enough examples). When they do show up, they are not usually the protagonist (Snape); they more often play side roles.

And the point with these guys is that they did bad things because they were not well-intentioned. Their intentions change, and therefore their moral alignment changes. But WWX was always trying to do good. It's only at the very end that he is no longer trying, and he loses his mind partly because all of his efforts to do good have flown up in his face. I just feel like I never get to see someone who was honestly trying to help people so earnestly, and fucks it up because he was trying to do too much. The closest example is Xie Lian, and I think we can all agree Xie Lian never becomes anything close to a villain.

However, now comes the trait that really does make WWX different from any other protagonists I've ever read, and most I've seen on screen: he is all of the above, a reformed villain who was well-intentioned throughout his descent into villainy, who doesn't brood.

Everyone I mentioned above--Zuko, Angel, Snape--are all very serious people who are consumed by their pasts. If they're not dour or bitter, they're still unable to be light-hearted or carefree. Meanwhile, WWX is the definition of light-hearted and carefree. He has a lot of regrets and some guilt, but he really doesn't dwell on it. Like, he fucked up. He died. How else can he atone? He knows he can't make it up to the people he hurt. Might as well move on and not get in their face about it.

In general, WWX's personality is unusual for the kind of hero he is. While it's true that the wise-cracking, smart-talking hero is a staple of western fantasy (Iron Man, Spider Man), these aren't the kind of heroes who can make the serious mistakes that WWX makes--or, though they do make mistakes that lead to the deaths of countless bystanders, they are never really confronted with the enormity of those crimes. I know that some people will say that WWX is not confronted with them either, that his crimes are not dealt with seriously enough in the text. I admit that I was very surprised that WWX blames the death of JZX on JGY during the final showdown in the temple. In the end, however, I think there are enough questions about whether WWX is actually a Good Guy that the story of MDZS seems quite different than, say, many western superhero stories, in which yes, superheroes do bad things and make mistakes, but are still ultimately our heroes.

But the other thing about WWX's personality that is unique for such a protagonist and also further distances him from heroes like Iron Man is this: WWX is pathetic. He's allowed to be pathetic, on quite a few occasions. He pretends to be a child. He pretends to be a damsel in distress. He purposely harasses and teases others in a way that is actively annoying to them. He's laughable. The closest parallel I can think of to how deeply WWX is willing to abase himself and annoy the fuck out of others in Deadpool, but the thing about Deadpool is that he is ultimately comedic. You know you're going to laugh if you're reading a Deadpool comic or watching one of his movies. Also, while Deadpool is a badass, need I remind you that WWX is the most powerful and the most feared person in the entire world, perhaps in all of history. The fact that WWX is as powerful as he is and still throws himself on people he likes and pretends to weep is only matched by Luo Binghe, but LBH is different in that his willingness to be pathetic is a tactic of manipulation. Meanwhile WWX is pathetic for fun; he likes to annoy people; he's ridiculous; he's laughable.

He's also lovable, but imo, like Deadpool and like LBH, I don't think we're always supposed to find him charming. We're supposed to recognize that these characters sometimes go too far for a joke. We're supposed to be annoyed at times, at least imo.

But in the end, we are supposed to like WWX. We're also supposed to feel really sorry for him and sympathize with him for what he did. He's an enormous woobie, while at the same time he massacred thousands and then laughed it off. Who does that? Who does it like the Yiling Lazou? When you add in the fact that he's super gay, but all his gay fantasies consist of farming and eating Lan Wangji's cooking and talking about fishing and keeping house, I'm just left asking, Wei Wuxian, who the fuck are you? Who the fuck can match you?

This is why I spend so much time thinking about this character. I can't actually wrap my head around him, and frankly, the way MDZS is told doesn't help. MXTX actually does not really get into WWX's head very much once he starts his path of demonic cultivation, and while we get some insights as to what is going on with him through flashback and his dialogue at the time, I am still somewhat in the dark about why he made the choices he did.

The only character I've ever encountered who even comes close to WWX is Spike from BtVS, and WWX is still on another level.

Lastly, I'll say that the relationship between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng is another thing I have never witnessed in western media. It is so complex and interesting to me that I could make a whole post on it, which is why even though the answer to your question is by far Wei Wuxian, if WWX didn't exist, Jiang Cheng would win this question by a landslide.

[bloopitynoot]

Reading SVSSS: Bonus- Chapter 32

For those who don't know, I am reading SVSSS for the first time and sharing my thoughts!

If you have not read it, there will be spoilers! Consider this a warning.

Also- if you want to follow along, I am aiming to post updates daily. You can find all the posts in the tag bloopitynoot reads SVSSS. You can also check out the intro post for context on my read.

Yes it is 8 am and yes I am eating chicken gnocchi soup for breakfast. I stand that soup is and always will be a breakfast food.

No hot drinks today! This wedding required a feast :'3

I can't believe this is it! The series finale if you will.

I have been waiting 32 chapters for this moment. at last!!!

This man (SQQ) has been sleeping with this other man for what- months(?) years(?) at this point and he is STILL over here totally bewildered at the fact that LBH does not want to marry a woman. p355

This is kind of sweet though. I'm so glad Cang Qiong Mountain sect has embraced these two absolute weirdos. I love that they can visit now! It warms my romantic heart that they can travel for a while and then come "home" for a time. p355

omg these two are so embarrassing. The way in which LBH is asking him to marry him is so awkward. p359

oh no, now I feel like an asshole because LBH was SO NERVOUS the days leading up to him asking. (granted totally fair with how SQQ acts towards him/about their relationship- I too would not know if he wanted to actually marry me or not in this situation). I just want to pinch LBH's cheeks though, why is he so cute. p360

aaaaaah- this is so cute. SQQ being actually happy about him asking instead of trying to gaslight himself and side step his feelings or "reluctantly" agreeing to marry LBH pp360-361

my heaaaaaaaart LBH's confession pp362-363

The fact that LBH had wedding outfits ready. I need to know two things; 1. where/how did he get them and 2. how long has he had them and had this planned. p363

I truly don't know if MXTX has written a tender sex scene. Why does it always have to be a little traumatic? Granted I have only read SVSSS and MDZS BUT both of these series have either uncomfortable (SVSSS) or just have freak4freak energy (MDZS-but I will take this over crying and bleeding) there's never something soft and lubed. I hope that TGCH has something (no spoilers pls) but my bar is so low. (okay but wangxian was fine for the most part- they just were also dry and mutually unhinged). pp366-367

NO LOL the wife-ing of SQQ. p370

Okay okay- the ending was so sweet. The little shy embarrassed SQQ calling Binghe husband and him pretending not to hear. My headcanon is that eventually over time SQQ feels less and less embarrassed, works through his internalized homophobia, and learns to say what he actually feels more often. Even without my hopes and dreams, I still think this ending was such good character growth for SQQ.

Holy shit we did it!

Thank you to everyone who joined me on this reading journey. It has been so fun getting to read the books along with you and talk about the experience.

I am a little bit sad that it is over :'3

I do however, now have a pile of fanfic to start working through and am so stoked to continue this journey via fan works. Thank you, thank you to everyone who sent me fics to read!!

In terms of what is next- I will likely spend some time reading SVSSS fanfic- if I get to a point where like Wangxian, I have hundreds of fics in my collection, I may start recing Bingqiu!

BUT in terms of danmei, I am hoping to read TGCF next and round out my MXTX collection (likely end of December start)!

This has been such an amazing experience that I will continue to live blog future danmei series :)

Thank you thank you again!

[mdzs-fanon-exposed]

MDZS Fanon VS Canon: 2/?

Wen Ning fits Jiang Cheng's list of requirements for a wife

Rating: FANON – NEUTRAL

A lot of ships involving Jiang Cheng will use a list detailing the characteristics of his ideal woman as evidence for one pairing for another, and the character brought to me to evaluate as a suitable match was Wen Ning. Unfortunately, I have to rate this as fanon because Jiang Cheng's wife requirements... aren't canon to the novels.

In terms of the official adaptations, Jiang Cheng's requirements for his perfect wife seem to be Untamed-only canon, as part of the Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing subplot the drama invented. However, the MDZS Fandom Wiki (which, side note, is a horrible source for anything) credits the following list of requirements to a since-deleted Tumblr post:

Naturally beautiful, graceful and obedient, hard-working and thrifty, coming from a respected family, cultivation level not too high, personality not too strong, not too talkative, voice not too loud and must treat Jin Ling nicely. (source)

Using the Wayback Machine, I managed to find the original Tumblr post in question (seen here). According to the user who posted it, this is a translated excerpt from a Weibo post written by MXTX herself, listing 10 supplemental facts about the books – supposedly posted a year before The Untamed was first announced.

I do not have Weibo and cannot verify this claim, but regardless, I do not consider "word of God" to be canon for the purposes of this blog. Whatever MXTX's intentions were when writing this list, Jiang Cheng's requirements are not mentioned anywhere in the actual text, and so I cannot rate this suggestion as anything but fanon. You, the reader, are free to choose whether you think MXTX's supplemental material is canon-accurate.

As for Wen Ning himself: Canonically, Jiang Cheng "could never tolerate" him (Seven Seas Ch. 19, p. 251), and so unfortunately this ship cannot officially sail. Even if Wen Ning does fit every entry on this list, Jiang Cheng would not consider him a prospective match. I do not consider the list canon, and so any attempts to figure out if Wen Ning fits the letter of the list (if not the spirit) can not be anything but subjective.

But, well, this post is about the list itself, not Jiang Cheng's feelings about it. So while I'm here, I might as well have some fun with it.... Feel free to use the notes to debate whether or not you think Wen Ning is secretly right for Jiang Cheng's dubiously-canon standards.

Naturally beautiful: Wen Ning is ADORABLE and I LOVE HIM. You can't look at him and NOT call him cute; even Wei Wuxian thinks his "side profile [is] delicate and refined" (Seven Seas Ch. 12, p. 141). Would Jiang Cheng think this? Um,

Graceful and obedient: He's pretty meek and he's described as a yes-man (Seven Seas Ch. 16, p. 22), and he does what Wei Wuxian says a lot (under magical flute coercion or otherwise), but he can be pretty stubborn when he wants to be. I wouldn't call him falling off a roof "graceful," but I suppose that was after he was zombified.

Hard-working and thrifty: Yes – I can't imagine he got all those Wen subordinates by being completely lazy. And if anything he's kind of the pack horse for the Burial Mounds crew lol.

Coming from a respected family: Technically? Yes. The Wens have historically been a powerful and influential family, and Wen Ning is the younger brother of someone of "a rank on par with Wen Chao" (Seven Seas Ch. 12, p. 148). Functionally? Uhhhh

Cultivation level not too high: This one is debatable, but probably a yes. We don't receive much information about Wen Ning's cultivation level, since his fighting prowess isn't really plot-relevant until he dies, but he is described as "unremarkable" in comparison to Wen Qing. Just like, in general, I guess. (Seven Seas Ch. 12, p. 149)

Personality not too strong: See #2. I would say yes with some caveats. Especially (and ironically) when Jiang Cheng is involved.

Not too talkative/voice not too loud: Also a match! Wen Ning stutters a lot and doesn't really raise his voice unless he's angry, so he's pretty quiet. Remember that time he and wangxian were on that boat and Wei Wuxian straight up didn't notice him for like five minutes? Poor guy. Can you believe this happened to him twice.

Must treat Jin Ling nicely: Do we count murdering his dad? Because if we don't, then Wen Ning treats Jin Ling very nicely. He even saves his life multiple times!

In conclusion: ?????????

[lewiscarrolatemybrain]

Took a glance at the Canon Jiang Cheng tag today out of curiosity and got a free blocklist for my trouble but I did notice something really interesting

That is to say: Most of the stans “reclaiming” the tag literally outright admitted that their main reason for liking Jiang Cheng was that he’s attractive. The vast majority of the stan posts that I saw talked about his appearance first and foremost, and the other batch admitted they were woobie-fying him. Art was either hypersexualized or soft chibi shapes and all of it focused on either his suffering or him raising Jin Ling (specifically in a way that seemed Milf-y. He was drawn with exaggerated hips a lot.)

Most interestingly, almost none of the fanart was of CQL Jiang Cheng. Almost none of the gif sets showed CQL Jiang Cheng. This was Manhua and Donghua design Jiang Cheng, sexually exaggerated and squished into an UwU Woobie Baby Sadboi shape, palatable for consumption.

I’ve long had issues with the way fandoms — and the world at large — rank characters based on visual appearance. Wen Ning is to Wei Wuxian what so many fics depict Nie Huiasang as being; his best friend and closest confidant, the person who is in his corner no matter what, who sees and supports him and stands up for him even when it’s scary. But it’s hard to picture Wen Ning as the booty-shorts-wearing white-girl-wasted gender-ambiguous party friend, so Nie Huiasang gets that roll. If Wen Qing shows up at all, she must be The Mean Lesbian, because if she’s straight then her crisp no-nonsense attitude (which is literally just the way every trauma nurse in the world acts) isn’t attractive, it isn’t fun. And of course if she IS the mean lesbian, then her vulnerability and her fear and her deep compassion and desire to help people needs to be shoved to the side, because the mean lesbian doesn’t feel those things. That’s not sexy.

I don’t really know where I’m going with this. This problem isn’t unique to MDZS or Jiang Cheng Stans or anything like that. It’s a pervasive issue I’ve seen everywhere for as long as I can remember; beauty exclusively means fuckability. There are no versions of attractiveness that don’t lend themselves to sexual consumption. Beauty also means morality and value. If someone is not beautiful — that is, if you don’t want to fuck them — then they are unworthy. Characters that are extremely important to a story get either erased (if the fandom doesn’t think they’re hot) or rewritten (if the fandom does think they’re hot) because hot people can’t do bad things, or at least they can’t do bad things that aren’t kind of thrilling and exciting. Because they’re hot.

It reminds me of people who are into Slashers, actually? Although from what I’ve seen slasherfuckers are more self-aware than Jiang Cheng Stans.

Boy was that a sentence.

Update: the fun thing about this post is that it also comes with a free blocklist

[qiu-yan]

I think if MDZS was truly about moral good, then Cultivation Society would have been fundamentally changed and everyone who tried to change it wouldn’t be dead. The fact that XXC and SL wanted to change cultivation sects from being dynastic to more merit based and they got such horrible fates is tragic. JGY wanted to use his power to help the more common folk, but he was struck down and any good he’s done is going to be tainted. WWX and LWJ choose to walk away rather than do anything in the novel, so I’m not sure if their actions can be considered a net positive. There’s only so much good they can do as wandering cultivators, there needs to be some kind of structure to help the community but most sects are unwilling to put in a lot of effort if it doesn’t benefit them specifically. There was no social change in MDZS.

thank you for the message! and sorry it took me five million years to get to it...

from a utilitarian point of view, i think you're completely correct: the one individual the novel holds up as the most righteous out of everyone has a far greater negative than positive impact on the world at large; society and the plight of the common folk are in a worse state at the end of the novel than they are at the beginning. postcanon, no matter how much individual nighthunting wei wuxian and lan wangji do, the life of your average commoner is probably going to get more dangerous. you are correct that there was in fact no social change in MDZS. shit did not change on a major scale.

two comments about this: first, the moral framework employed by MDZS is decidedly non-utilitarian. second, as you said, MDZS is not About Moral Good.

first, the moral framework employed by MDZS is not utilitarian at all. wei wuxian and lan wangji are not "righteous" in the way that someone who pulls the lever in the trolley problem can be called "righteous" via utilitarian reasoning; rather, wei wuxian and lan wangji are "righteous" in the way that someone who walks away from omelas is righteous. from a utilitarian perspective, walking away from omelas doesn't accomplish shit because the child is still suffering and one person's absence is not going to change that. from a non-utilitarian perspective, though, walking away from omelas isn't about bringing about a certain result but rather is about living in accordance to your own ideals and code of honor. it's not about helping as many people as possible or about bringing about the best possible outcome, but rather about living your own life without any regrets.

this isn't a philosophy i (a utilitarian) really buy into, but many people do find it persuasive. and though there are still some logical holes induced by protagonist-centered-morality, i do think that MDZS is overall thematically cohesive if analyzed through this non-utilitarian lens. unfortunately, one side-effect of this lens (as well as the general non-utilitarian sorts of philosophies this lens is based in) is that the story ends up somewhat handwaving actual negative consequences.

second, MDZS is not Purely About Moral Good. it has an internally consistent moral framework and it has a lot to say about what it thinks is righteousness, but it isn't a "ringing endorsement of the Correct Course Of Action" book in the same way many other works of fiction are. MDZS is about a certain kind of righteousness, but it's also a cynical condemnation of society, a remark upon the role and unreliability of rumors and hearsay, a subversion of typical xianxia/wuxia genre tropes, an interpersonal tragedy of love and duty and sacrifice and hubris, and a thorough rejection of the just world fallacy. it's also a romance.

i say that MDZS is also a social critique and a rejection of the just world fallacy because, in my view, we aren't meant to read characters like jin guangyao as "unambiguously evil characters who got what they deserved." i do think we're meant to see the way in which society turns on jin guangyao, the way in which that parallels wei wuxian's unfair downfall, and the way in which the genuine good jin guangyao did for the world is now at risk, as a tragedy. as a rather depressing insight upon the morally bankrupt nature of society. MXTX wrote it that way on purpose. you're not meant to read jin guangyao's downfall and go "he got what he deserved;" rather, you're meant to look at the black-and-white, hypocritical, and classist way in which society turns upon jin guangyao as a criticism of that society - one that builds off of the social criticism baked into wei wuxian's character arc.

there is no structural change in MDZS because MDZS is a criticism of society, not a story about how society got better. MDZS posits that this polite society is classist and morally bankrupt, and then does not fix said society. MDZS says "this polite society was hypocritical and self-serving then, and it still is now." in that sense, then, the ending is deliberately rather tragic.

in that sense, then, wei wuxian stepping away from the cultivation world does also feel like him giving up on society. which, from an interpersonal perspective, is fair: he already set himself on fire and literally died trying to do the right thing, so i don't think we can really begrudge him for not wanting to risk it a second time. maybe this time someone else can try to fix things (and die in the process). also, given his and lan wangji's absolute lack of any political ability, it's probably also for the best that they not try to involve themselves in politics to better the world, because realistically they'd probably just make a bunch of enemies and solve zero of the problems.

MDZS tries to give us some hope for the future of its fictional society: both the novel and the fandom (including me myself) posit that said hope for the future lies in the juniors, by whom wei wuxian's generation tried to better than their parents did for them. jin ling's generation certainly seems kinder than wei wuxian's generation. i think we're meant to conclude that things aren't completely hopeless because jin ling's generation, kinder and nobler than the previous one, will try to fix things.

but personally, i'm not sure how i feel about placing the hopes of social reform on the specific personalities of citizens and leaders, rather than the structures those people exist in. instead, i'm reminded me of what i wrote a few months ago about the granularity of morality in MDZS being the entire individual and not the action, by which i mean that MDZS seems to assess and conclude entire characters as "good people" or "bad people" or "complicated and morally grey people," rather than analyze the morality of specific actions. and i think it's because MDZS treats the unit measurements of morality as people rather than actions or policies, that MDZS is ultimately able to posit that the future will be better because a specific group of individuals from the next generation have kinder personalities - even though there was no structural reform. as if the state of a society is determined purely by the personalities of a select group of future leaders within it, rather than the laws and institutions that bind it and the material conditions its populations live in. to put it in other words, this is peak "we replaced the evil king with a Wise And Just king (and made no other changes), so we've saved the day!!!" thinking.

.

i feel like i rambled a lot in this response, so i apologize for its relative lack of cohesion. i hope i haven't misinterpreted your points and that i've continued the conversation in a relevant manner.

[asksythe]

MXTX Interview with Risa Wataya for Subaru Magazine P.2

How to describe the main characters of "Mo Dao Zu Shi"

Risa Wataya: One of the charms of "Mo Dao Zu Shi" is that the characters are depicted in multiple dimensions. Even characters who are seen as villains or enemies will have such complex backgrounds. Sometimes I feel that some scenes pay more attention to depicting the deep psychological connections between the characters than the plot. In terms of describing emotional and psychological relationships, is there anything that needs to be emphasized?

Mo Xiang: My personal belief is: "First, let the characters interact and talk to each other in my head. Then portray them. So that I can feel that the characters' emotions are real. At this point, it's natural to imagine the way the characters talk and behave.

Similar to real-life interpersonal relationships, you have to give the characters enough time to develop and incubate a certain amount of emotion before you can start writing the story, so my creative process is very slow.

Risa Wataya: How long did it take you to finish writing "Mo Dao Zu Shi?"

Mo Xiang: Last year of university, when I was about to graduate, I started to come up with ideas. It took about ten months to write an outline. Even though I posted constantly (*) online at that time, it took me five months to finish.

(*: Here, MXTX used a term from Chinese e-literature platforms, which means daily posting for long-form novels. So she wrote and posted every day for 5 months to complete MDZS) 

Risa Wataya: So quick!

Mo Xiang: "Mo Dao Zu Shi" is my second work, and I have only completed one before. So there's still plenty of room for the imagination. Actually, I had a lot of ideas for a long time, and in my spare time, I started writing when I was about to graduate in my senior year. After the serialization process really started, I felt that it went smoothly, and I felt that the writing speed also became faster.

Risa Wataya: So that’s how it was. That’s incredible! Returning to the subject of the character, Wei WuXian, one of the main characters, although deeply misunderstood by those around him, he is still a genuinely good-hearted person. And he is also very talkative. Even in the love scenes, he talked constantly, but he never lost his charms. This makes him so much more attractive.

Mo Xiang: I think Wei WuXian is a very interesting character. If you become acquainted with him, you probably won't be able to hate him. I like the loving side of him. Whether it's fellow travelers, family, friends, passersby, or children, he is the first to show affection and take real actions.

Whether to me or to Lan Wangji, such a personality is of extreme importance. To put it bluntly, I sympathize with Lan WangJi, so for me, Wei WuXian is a fascinating and important (*) character. If I can't make myself feel "Lan WangJi will definitely love Wei WuXian. Moreover, this kind of love will be so strong that he can't forget it for the rest of his life", then I can't convince myself to believe in their love and continued writing it. Since the relationship between these two is a very important element in the work, I thought a lot about it.

(*: the way she used the word important here is in a personal and deeply emotional sense. So Wei Wuxian’s character being the way he is, kind and affectionate towards everyone and backing up his emotions with real actions, is deeply important to MXTX herself and not just the plot. The wording also means here that this is the crux of why he becomes Lan Wangji’s beloved and gaining tremendous weight in Lan Wangji’s eyes)

To Be Continued

Translation by me: Sythe / NPD Khanh

[web-novel-polls]

Web Novel Women Tournament 

[Please be kind and respectful in the notes. Anti-Propaganda is NOT allowed.] - Spoilers Warning below!

Han Sooyoung / Han Suyeong from ORV / Omniscient Reader’s Viewpoint

Submission 1: I can't even begin to explain the real reason so I'll just. She's everything. Consumes my every waking thought. Someone else please take the lead and add propaganda for me

Submission 2: 

Han Suyeong is a writer. She is cunning, self-serving and confident. Her avatar skill allows her to divide herself into as many copies as she pleases, and each copy can look like anyone. Her only weakness is that if she loses the copies, she loses memories. She initially starts as an antagonist who is not afraid to murder some people on her way to the top. She gradually bonds with the main character due to their shared knowledge and shared love of stories. *MAJOR spoilers for manhwa readers* She gradually becomes one of the three main characters. She is one of the two people from the main cast to become a constellation (god-like beings living off stories). She spearheads the attempts to rescue the one person who matters most to her, even when it is impossible. Even when everyone else has given up years ago. She dooms whole universes and all their people for her one person. She sacrifices everything.

Wiki Link

Wen Qing from Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation / MDZS

Submission: She is everything! She doesn't get enough screen time in the novel, but that proves just how amazing she is to make such an impression in spite of it. She is a great big sister, to both her brother Wen Ning and the protagonist Wei Wuxian. She is stern but kind. She's a doctor. She throws needles at people. She's everything! 

Previous Propaganda (MXTX Side Characters Tournament):

Submission 1: Doctor, mad scientist, war criminal, protective big sister... she has the range!! Submission 2: Wen Qing my beloved!! She did surgery on a grape. Mad genius for real. Also a loving sister with a very sharp tongue and maybe no sense of how far is too far. Can't wait for them to find her alive in a Koi Tower basement! Submission 3: Justice for my girl!!!!  Submission 4: She's bitchy and pragmatic and cares deeply and did an unprecedented operation (experimental and nonconsensual!), what's not to love? Also she deserved better. 

[tavina-writes]

i want to share salt. have you ever had a ship that annoyed you so much it starts poisoning other ships you could have potentially liked? because this is me with xiyao vs nielan. like, xiyaos are so fucking loud and proud of the fact that he sides with jgy over everybody else multiple times in ways that turn out to be incredibly hurtful. so it gets to the point i can't even enjoy cute teenage nielan art knowing xichen is going to so catastrophically fuck this up by repeatedly writing off mingjue as just imagining things and lying to him and leveraging their relationship for someone else's benefit and handing his killer the method to kill him and that people are *gleeful* about all that.

Hi Nonny!

First off, I want to offer you a hug, because this sort of feeling about fandom is never a fun thing to experience, and since you recognize that this is a salty ask, you might want nothing more than a "hey I see this and I get it in some part!"

But if you're thinking about how you might improve this situation and like, enjoy interacting with 3zun fandom again/mdzs fandom in general, I have a few ideas:

block everyone whose takes are pissing you off. There needs to be no bigger reason than "You know what, your takes are ruining this fandom experience for me" or "making me slightly more irritated than I would've been." There's no shame or like, anything wrong with this. Ultimately, we all live in this mosh pit of stuff together, and I might think everyone has a right to whatever kind of take they want, but I don't have to martyr myself on the cross of "hearing all sides" or whatever, and neither do you Nonny.

Recognizing which things are fanon and which are canon. This might help, but like, LXC doesn't, canonically, keep picking JGY at every turn. He is a flawed character with his own problems (as are they all in MDZS lol) but this is...not really what's happening? People can say what they want in their meta and their headcanons and interpretation of canon, but that doesn't make it...true.

this goes with 1 and 2 but also: if a fandom or a ship or a trope or something no longer brings you joy Nonny, there's always the opportunity to pack it up and leave it behind, either permanently or for a time. There's nothing wrong with not being "on" about a ship or fandom or recognizing that it was once something you really liked but not something you enjoy right at this very moment.

All that said, I'm personally of the opinion that there's a very loud and vocal part of the xiyao fandom (who exist on my blocklist by now) who've made me lose interest in the ship altogether, because the parts of the ship that I find most interesting -- the deceit, the almost gothic horror vibes, the slowly rotting center of their relationship when it didn't begin that way -- is obviously not what most (or what seems like most) people who ship it are looking for. And overall, I'm sure that it's no loss to not have me there, and that I (a NieYao girlie at heart) would not be welcome in that sandbox, so like, Nonny, I do get you and your frustrations. Ultimately I guess sometimes it's just easier to recognize that not all fandom spaces are welcoming and to find places that serve you better.

[overshelter]

REVIEW: Heaven Official's Blessing

WARNING: Contains numerous SPOILERS, so CAUTION!

<< REFERS TO THE UNREVISED VERSION >> This is the author's third work and also her longest. TGCF, unlike SV which seems to focus more on the emotional and MDZS which focuses more on themes such as forgiveness and overcoming, seems to pay more attention to the feelings and relationships between the characters. The fact that the MC, Xie Lian, has lived for just over 800 years is definitely not something that can be easily overcome. Having lived, felt and related to numerous types of people over such a long period of time, it's completely natural that he would end up making extremely difficult decisions or be driven to almost irreparable psychological damage. In fact, I still find it incredible and truly admirable how he managed to overcome and move on even in the midst of many things. Even if there were moments in the current timeline when you can see that some of those wounds were merely treated, but never truly and completely healed. Most of his relationships in the beginning are completely in ruins, and don't seem to have any chance of recovery. But even with all that, he has still managed, not to mend, but to patch up many wounds that have emerged over the years. The other characters were also written and developed in a very human way, which was an unparalleled point of attraction in my opinion. What really stuck with me was that no one in this story can be described as entirely good or evil. Everyone walks a fine line between these two sides, fighting and doing the best they can for themselves, their loved ones and for a hope of happiness. All their decisions, actions and emotions are extremely relatable if you simply put yourself in their shoes without having any kind of prejudice in mind. They show that we can all reach a point of no return if we are pushed to the limit. Moving on, another crucial point in this story is undoubtedly the romance. It was developed in a very sweet way. So sweet that you end up melting with every interaction. HuaLian really is that fairytale couple, who have an enviable and perfect love, with a true sense of eternity. It's completely impossible to look at them and not feel like you're floating or have that warm feeling in your chest. To tell you the truth, I think they're the couple with the cutest vibe out of the three by this author. I'd say they're like that teenage romance or the taste of first love. That love that burns, that warms you, that won't let you forget it. A gentle love that makes you feel complete and totally welcomed. With this person, you feel like the whole world could turn its back on you and everything would still be fine. Because that person, that person alone is enough. That person you know and feel will never, ever abandon you and will always be there for you, supporting you no matter what. That's how HuaLian makes you feel. That's how they are. A simple, sweet and engaging definition of the word love. TGCF is also a very good story in terms of holding your attention. There are lots of things happening all the time, well-developed schemes, backstories to be discovered, new characters and a whole range of extremely attractive contexts that you can't take your eyes off. Everything was very well written and crafted, with nothing that seemed tedious or unnecessary throughout. MXTX, for me, is an author with a real talent for writing. Everything is very captivating and can hit you hard if you choose to give it a chance. Well, I'll stop here, as I feel I have nothing more to say. I hope you give this baby a try!