#not like a subsystem. we have those but that's different | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

tempesttz · 4 months ago

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i feel like causing problems today: correcting actual endogenic misinformation on the anti endo blog about "correcting misinformation"

WARNING: VERY LONG POST ABOUT SYSCOURSE BELOW THE CUT! you have been warned. stay safe! :3c

[/image id: screenshot of tumblr blog @antimisinfo, the blog's profile picture, and the blog's header stating "correcting misinformation." end id.] (before we get into this, some of these images will be very bright! i will try to provide accurate image ids to every screenshot i post. stay safe!) okay so see this account right? op has no clue what they're talking about. addressing pronouns right now, i was going to refer to them by their preferred collective pronouns but i can't find them? i checked their carrd and their alters all had different pronouns and their about me just says this

[/image id: text stating, "horned haters is a subsystem filled with alters who hate endos / pro-endos. our whole system does but we are more passionate about it and plan to try make as many safe spaces for anti-endos as we possibly can!" end id.] so at least i know they prefer alters. cool [happy] so far okay whatever they REALLY hate endogenic systems thats cool thats whatever nothing new there but

[/image id: five images of different flags, likely did/osdd related, anti endo related, or something similar. text underneath flags states "system hot takes," "anti endo support group," "anti endo system terms," "agre and littles safespace," and "fictive stuff." end id.] jegus dude you weren't joking about being passionate about hating. this is like, grade a hater here. but i digress this probably isn't the post to be screwing around on i'll keep the screwing to a minimum i promise. that being said i don't promise to be nice, i do not owe anyone kindness, especially when they are not kind to me. i will try to be polite. so this is already splendid right but you would think with this many accounts dedicated to hating endogenic systems (they also own anti endo vents, i think?) they would at least know what they're talking about, right? right?????

[/image id: text reading "so what are endos? endos or endogenics are people who claim to have did/osdd without trauma or claim to have alters/be a system without having did/osdd." end id.] source: endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid, may 8 2024 for the sake of convenience, i'm going to be referring to did/osdd as osddid from now on. okay so first of all, anyone who claims to be endogenic while having osddid is almost definitely also traumagenic and has reasons rooted in trauma, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. endogenic is a broad, personal label. an endogenic system with did could be one with a lot of created alters or headmates. or just two created alters, headmates, etc. who knows! it's a very personal label after all. that being said, to have osddid, you have to have some form of trauma in almost every case, because trauma is what causes the dissociation, amnesia and other symptoms of osddid. anyone who's arguing to the contrary is wrong. you cannot have osddid without trauma? "so tempy, endogenic systems aren't real! they don't have osddid!" wrong. you can be a system without having osddid. for just one example, sourced from the national library of medicine, pubmed central, "multiplicity can be placed along a continuum between identity disturbance and dissociative identity disorder (did), although most systems function relatively well in everyday life. Further research is needed to explore this phenomenon, especially in terms of the extent to which multiplicity can be regarded as a healthy way of coping." (2017) taking some bookmarks from your sixth grade english class (which i can only hope you have passed by now, if you are on this website,) we are going to use some inferences. if multiplicity isn't dissociative identity disorder, but it is a state of being multiple and a system, what do you have? a system without osddid. "but tempy, that doesn't mention osdd!" that's because osdd wasn't a medical term before the dsm-5. not to mention, it stresses that "...most systems function relatively well in everyday life..." and that "...multiplicity can be regarded as a healthy way of coping." osdd is a disorder and an osdd system's plurality is disordered. non-disordered plurality is a thing that exists, and almost all non-traumagenic plurals are non-disordered! so we're already off to a terrible start. op isn't creating a distinction between plurality and osddid, likely because they believe that osddid is the only way to be plural. this not only was disproved above by a literal scientific article on a .gov website, but also the icd-11.

[/image id: text stating "boundary with normality (threshold):" which then moves a line down to a bullet point stating "the presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder. in certain circumstances (e.g., as experienced by 'mediums' or other culturally accepted spiritual practitioners) the presence of multiple personality states is not experienced as aversive and is not associated with impairment in functioning. a diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder should not be assigned in these cases." end id.] so someone can experience multiple personality states without it being part of a mental disorder. and it's not dissociative identity disorder, and it can't be otherwise specified dissociative disorder, so... i wonder what it could be? well, many things! all under the wonderful way-too-vague umbrella that is endogenic plurality. oh, you need more proof? how about we look to a book written by eric yarbrough, a psychiatrist who specializes in lgbtq issues:

[/image id: text reading "the phenomenon of plurality is unknown to most mental health clinicians. most professionals know this condition as dissociative identity disorder (american psychiatric association 2013), although plurality and dissociative identity disorder are not exactly the same. being plural, or having two or more people existing in one body or space, is just one part of the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder. many people who are plural do not experience distress from the existence of others within themselves." end id.] what was that, psychiatrist eric yarbrough in your book transgender mental health which was published by the american psychiatric association?

[/image id: text reading "plurality is a more patient-centered approach to what has historically been referred to as dissociative identities. this is not the same as the dsm-5 diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder (american psychiatric association 2013). plurality makes up just one part of the larger diagnosis and does not necessarily cause distress. although many people who are plural have a history of trauma, there are just as many who do not. a plural system is a collection of all the alters present. with some people these alters might come and go, whereas with others they are static and waiting to be discovered." end id.] this is not the same as the dsm-5 diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder, huh? it's just one part of a larger diagnosis and doesn't necessarily cause distress, huh? still not convinced? rapid fire! zarah eve, sarah parry: "not all multiplicity is based in trauma" (2021) mick cooper: "neuropsychological research has demonstrated the inherently divisible nature of the brain and consciousness" (unsure, likely pre-2013) zarah eve, kim hayes, sarah perry: "multiplicity experiences are phenomenologically distinct from clinical dissociative experiences" (2023)

kymbra clayton: "there may be in the general population a large number of people with [multiplicity] who are high-functioning, relatively free of overt psychopathology, and no more in need of treatment than most of their peers. they may not have abuse histories and may have evolved a creative and adaptive multiplicity." (possibly 2005)

the entire endogenic and non-traumagenic resources google doc, created by a diagnosed traumagenic system can we at least establish there's been a recorded medical existence of healthy, non-disordered multiplicity in psychiatric fields and that this isn't something that someone just made up on tumblr one day? okay, cool, thanks. now i wonder if there's a word for that. oh wait. it's called non-disordered plurality and tends to be much more common in non-traumagenic systems. by now you've probably forgotten the actual reason this post exists, so back to antimisinfo!

[/image id: text reading "why is this bad? this is misinformation because as far as science knows did/osdd is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split/create alters without reason. you cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. to add onto this endos also take over our communities and teal our terms. (we'll make a post with further information on that in the future.)" end id.] okay so first off non-disordered systems exist, let's stop talking about osddid as if it's the only way plurals can exist. second off, you can be multiple without having a disorder, it's literally highlighted in the icd-11 that non-disordered multiplicity exists. see above for disproving that. this is not common sense, because as seen above people can experience multiplicity without it being disordered, therefore meaning it is "normal," though not realistically normal as all plurals are a minority. normal =/= bad/disordered. cool? cool now, onto "endos take over our communities and steal our terms." i have no clue what terms op is talking about (tried to find their elaboration on those terms but it seems they haven't posted it), nor have i ever gotten an actual comprehensive list of terms they think we're stealing, but here we go: the terms traumagenic and endogenic were created by an endogenic system

[/image id: text reads "an important part of the development of these terms involves our journey towards identifying as plural. we have used a lot of terms for ourselves over the last thirty years; since 2014, we have identified as endogenic, but have known we were plural since at least 1990. the road" text cuts off. end id.] the term plural can be traced back to 2003 and even in its oldest records recognize the existence of non-traumagenic plurality. it has always been an inclusive term

[/image id: header reads "heart's home." text next to it reads "join date: january 02, 2003." text underneath reads, "this is my site for people that have mpd did, {;} also i agree that not all is cause by trauma. {;} i was on the ring from ring world and did not know this was moved." end id.] introject is a psychiatry-focused word, meaning that it could be claimed to be osddid exclusive, however multiple communities have used them in tandem for years. it can be traced back to this glossary which was written before the dsm-5, or pre-2013.

[/image id: text reads "introject - introjection occurs when a person (singlet or plural) internalizes another person (real or fictional) into his or her mental space. in classical psychology, the introject is usually a parent, whose advice for good or ill becomes integrated into the person's moral system. more broadly, many people experience introjects as a kind of muse, inspiring them to creativity or self-improvement (a psychologist would call this an "internalized imago"). (psychiatric)". new line. new line text reads, ""introject" is seen as derogatory by some, because it is a psychiatric word and seems to imply that such people of necessity are unreal. They prefer terms like walk-in, soulbond, or fictive. having an introject does not necessarily mean you're multiple. it is an experience common to singlets and plurals. some multiple systems report adopting people from books, films, or real life, making them part of the group and allowing them to take the front if they desire." so, having introjects hasn't even always been seen as a fully plural experience! singlets used to be considered to be able to have introjects too! isn't that cool? not to mention, they also have a definition for fictive in there, recognized as a wider plural term! cool, cross that off the list... oh? what's this?

[/image id: text reads "system - a group of persons in one body. also, the operating system by which a group governs itself. multiples have many different names for this: group, collective, clan, household (or house), family, etc. (may have originated with a few multiples writing for the amateur press; we first read it in an early mpd book.)" end id.] so non-disordered plurals have used the term system since ever too... not to mention, hey, look at this term!

[/image id: text reads "empowerment is for all multiples. It is not only for natural (non-trauma) multiples; you can be empowered and be a multiple who was born as one person and split due to child abuse. In fact, if that's your situation, empowerment is a wonderful thing for you, and is something your therapist (if any) ought to be encouraging." end id.] wow... non-trauma multiples. look at that. is that enough terms? if you want me to look up more, feel free to suggest anything the endogenic community is "stealing" that haven't been used synonymously and consistently in both traumagenic and endogenic spaces since before traumagenic and endogenic were terms. okay back to misinformation.

[/image id: text is a link that reads "there is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! if not continue reading." end id.] i didn't need to click on this to know it was the why endos are bad carrd. this is the most touted anti endo carrd in existence. i'm so sick of seeing it i'm not even addressing it today. it's wrong and blames endogenic systems for systemic issues like "making actual systems be less believed." not a verbatim quote, but you can go read it for yourself and then scroll up and read everything i just said again.

i've never actually seen another anti-endo carrd. which is saying something, because there's a lot of endogenic carrds, some better than others. carrds in general aren't reputable in most situations, unless they cite other sources, which the why endos are bad carrd doesn't. it cites a google doc about cultural appropriation and the theory of structural dissociation, which is about osddid, not non traumagenic plurality. it also implies that anyone identifying as endogenic has been lied to, is traumagenic and in denial, is a singlet who's experiencing a factitious disorder or other disorder misleading them, or are a singlet faking because they think it's "fun." no comment, i'll talk about it in length another day.

[/image id: text reads, "why can't you have did/osdd or alters without trauma? as far as science knows did/osdd is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma (or stress) response. here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:" image ends. end id.] once again, not osdddid. also, "as far as science knows..." see above. science knows about non-disordered plurality. op goes on to list a bunch of articles about dissociative identity disorder, that talk about dissociative identity disorder. they are wonderful articles about dissociative identity disorder and prove that individuals with dissociative identity disorder (and by extension otherwise specified dissociative disorder) experience that disorder due to trauma. that being said... non-disordered multiplicity is a thing, and endogenic systems still don't have osddid. seeing a pattern?

[/image id: text reads, "what about religious beliefs / tulpamancy? first people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tulpamancy is a closed buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the dsm-v also says that in order to have did; "the disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system." end id.] okay so i corrected this in the image id, but op actually wrote "tuplamancy" twice. lol first off, tulpamancy isn't a closed buddhist practice. a tulpa is a theosophical term that was originally inspired by the tibetan buddhist nirmāṇakāya, translated as in tibetan as sprul-pa. "the western understanding of tulpas was developed by twentieth-century european mystical explorers, who interpreted the idea independently of buddhahood," according to wikipedia, sourced from tracking the tulpa (2015). a google search could tell you this. did you research any of the communities you are attempting to debunk past listening to what people who agree with you say? if you've decided in the past three months that google is your friend, i would google "echo chamber." second off, people absolutely are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs, and religious beliefs are subject to criticism. however, they should also be respected. this post, along with most other things you have had to say, have not respected spiritual plurals. not to mention, not all non-traumagenic plurals are spiritual. not to mention, not all tulpamancers are spiritual, in fact, most aren't. "modern practitioners, who call themselves "tulpamancers", use the term to refer to a type of willed imaginary friend which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively independent. modern practitioners predominantly consider tulpas to be a psychological rather than a paranormal concept. the idea became an important belief in theosophy." see: wikipedia again. i mean, if you want me to go find scientific articles about this i can but wikipedia has plenty. go check the sources on wikipedia. this should have been the first thing you did if you wanted to "combat misinformation," by doing actual research before posting. op then starts talking about did. see: not all plurals are disordered. op also takes the time to shit on spiritual multiplicity again, which i will rightly ignore, refer to two paragraphs ago. it's midnight and i would like to finish writing by 1am.

[/image id: text reads, "to add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. if you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works." end id.] this is a half-truth! you cannot pray to become a system unless you count spiritual possession (and frankly that responsibility lies on the individual in question), and you cannot pray to have osddid as that's a dissociative disorder that stems from childhood. you technically can transition to being plural (created systems are a thing, intentional and unintentional creation of headmates has been recorded dutifully since at least the early 1900s (see: tracking the tulpa, 2015). for the sake of it, here's a sciencedirect article about authors who experience different forms of hearing their characters in their head, who's recounts all sound very similar to non-disordered plurality. "believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works." maybe if all plurality is disordered. it isn't. see above when i showed multiple examples of non-disordered multiplicity. believing that all plurality is disordered is like insisting that god created everything on earth after being presented with the theory of evolution. the analogy goes both ways.

[/image id: text reads, "what about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. did/osdd forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. if you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all." ] okay so first of all people can be traumatized past the age of twelve. ooh burn i know crazy. not to mention, plurality in general is known to be experienced by neurodivergent individuals, who as a minority are more likely to experience some form of trauma. this isn't a controversial statement, right? i don't have to prove this, right? cool great thanks. oh hey i just found a really flat ginger ale this will now fuel the rest of this post. there's this crazy concept, some people can be traumatized without it causing them to be disordered. or, a person with osddid could have created headmates, therefore making some of their system of non-traumagenic origin. personally, i was a system before i was traumatized. this caused my plurality to have some very trauma-based aspects, trauma holders and trauma-focused roles. that being said, my plurality (mostly lol) isn't disordered and my first recorded headmate was a created/spontaneous headmate at the age of ~nine.~ isn't that cool? anyways i've been medically recognized as plural so you can't fakeclaim me [silly] i dont have osddid. don't fit the diagnostic criteria. but i've been experiencing headmates since 9 and have recognized my plurality since 12. i'm 18. most of my headmates can be sourced to when i was 13-15, as that's when i experienced the most trauma (i'm better now stay safe though yall). that's decidedly after the gracious "1-12" estimate you gave, op. not to mention, we created headmates intentionally at the age of 12. so what's up with that op? what am i? okay i'm done being anectodal, i just took the opportunity to parry a personal opinion with a personal anecdote just to further drive the nail in that people like this exist and are living breathing sentient individuals with lives outside the screen and many of us have been plural since ever. i sourced non-traumagenic multiplicity to before the dsm-5 just in this post alone, not to mention tulpamancy (many tulpamancers don't consider themselves plural/multiple or part of the community).

[/image id: text reads, "what about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. look above for all the proof you need, did/osdd is only caused by trauma. traumagenic is the only valid origin." end id.] i dunno if i told you this but did/osdd isn't the only form of plurality because not all plurality is disordered. also, spelling every origin you don't agree with incorrectly in a post that's supposed to be informational doesn't lend to your credibility. it's spelled willogenic. you're welcome. also, the word "traumagenic" was created by an endogenic system (see above, during "endos are stealing our terms," first link). you're appropriating our terms, buddy. [silly]

[/image id: text reads, "but I gave myself did! / but I created my own alters! no you didn't. that isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a did/osdd system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;" text ends. end id.] half truth! you can't give yourself osddid because it's a dissociative disorder that forms due to childhood trauma. you can, however, create alters/headmates. see above when i talked about tulpamancy. op goes on to link more resources about dissociative identity disorder that don't mention other forms of plurality. not all plurals are disordered, let's move on.

[/image id: text reads, "isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being lgbtq? no, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being lgbtq is an identity, it's something you are born as. being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;" text ends. end id.] first off i gotta say it again, not all plurality is disordered. op goes on to explain why did is a disability, which is true. that's just true. but again. not all plurality is disordered. second off, half truth! being a system is not the same as being lgbtq! that being said, a lot of systems are part of the lgbtq community, both due to its known effects on gender and sexuality and because a lot of them are neurodivergent. speaking on the internet plural community here, anyways. a lot of anti endos are referred to as "sysmeds" as a reference to "transmeds," people who believe that all people who are transgender must have a disorder in the form of gender dysphoria. sysmeds are people who believe that all people who are systems must have a disorder in the form of osddid.... same thing different font debunked not all systems are disordered. anyways.

[/image id: text reads, "but the dsm-v says that trauma isn't required! no, the dsm-v actually says csa isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve csa or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always ca or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or csa." end id.] both of you are wrong jesus christ. okay so first of all the dsm-v heavily implies that trauma is basically required in order to have osddid.

[/image id: text reading "dissociative identity disorder is associated with overwhelming experiences, traumatic events, and/or abuse occurring in childhood. the full disorder may manifest at al-" text cuts off. end id.]

[/image id: text reads, "the dissociative disorders are frequently found in the aftermath of trauma, and many of the symptoms, including embarrassment and confusion about the symptoms or a desire to hide them, are influenced by the proximity to trauma. in dsm-5, the dissociative disorders are placed next to, but are not part of, the trauma- and stressor-related disorders, reflecting the close relationship between these diagnostic classes. both acute stress disorder" text cuts off. end id.] second of all the part of the dsm-5 that goes over dissociative identity disorder doesn't mention sexual violence once. the best i can assume this claim came from is an old belief that most dissociative identity disorder trauma if not all is inherently sexual.

[/image id: text reads, "promoted by charismatic individuals such as cornelia wilbur -- that multiplicity was almost always caused by severe, repeated child abuse, usually sexual, and was an extreme form of dissociation." end id.] so... where did you get this info, op? you didn't give us a source, after all. and again.... not all plurality is disordered. so this is a pointless argument to make. shit, i'm out of ginger ale. and it's 1am. it's okay i'm basically done right? uh, right?

[/image id: text reads, "but this source claims endos exist / did doesn't require trauma! most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (we'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)" end id.] first off i dated every source i cited, most are post-2013 and the newest is from last september (sep 2023). the oldest is ~2003. you're welcome. second, if you denounce every source given matter how reputable because it's "written by pro endos," you'll only end up listening to people in your own community. hey, remember when i asked you to google "echo chamber?" also, i'm waiting for that post, op. also also, for the sake of it, not all plurality is disordered, so why are we mentioning did again? oh yeah, because you don't believe in non-disordered plurality. is that because all the sources proving their existence are pro endo? hey, fun challenge, if you're over the age of 21 and find yourself wishing to, take a shot every time i reiterate not all plurality is disordered. [joking]

[/image id: text reads, "but we don't know everything about the human brain! you're right, we don't. the brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. we know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. it is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how did/osdd forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. and before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;" end id.] hey i have this fun concept for you not all plurality is disordered. also, just to throw it out there, otto van der hart, the guy who created the theory of structural dissociation referencing the haunted self and doing so along with ellert neijenhuis, suzette boon and kathy steele, had his license revoked years ago for abusing his plural patients. not to mention they promote only referring to the "client" and not the "parts," and only referring to alters as "parts of the client." i recommend reading this article on power to the plurals, and if you feel like some extra reading, you can also check out this old article about how psych professionals used to be encouraged to bait or purposefully leave information out or use different names for integration to attempt to coerce their plural patients into final fusion. in conclusion, not all plurality is disordered, source your shit, and if you're going to talk about only dissociative disorders at least get your claims right. thank you. stop spreading misinformation.

dave got a blinkie for his post so now i want one

[/image id: green and yellow blinkie gif with the words "written by jade harley!" in pixelpoiiz font. end id.]

[/image id: blinkie with a dark blue, almost black background featuring multiple stars, one of which twinkles. contains text reading "written by kankri." in the pixeloid sans font. end id.]

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zedecksiew · 9 months ago

Text

How To Play The Revolution

So: I do not like the idea of TTRPGs making formal mechanics designed to incentivise ethical play.

But, to be honest, I do not like the idea of any single game pushing any particular formal mechanics about ethical play at all.

So here I am, trying to think through the reasons why, and proposing a solution. (Sort of. A procedure, really.)

Assumptions:

Some genres of game resist ethical play. A grand strategy game dehumanises people into census data. The fun of a shooter is violence. This is truest in videogames, but applies to tabletop games also.

Games can question their own ethics, to an extent. Terra Nil is an anti-city-builder. But it is a management game at heart, so may elide critiques of "efficiency = virtue".

Not all games should try to design for ethical play. I believe games that incentivise "bad" behaviour have a lot to teach us about those behaviours, if you approach them with eyes open.

The systems that currently govern our real lives are terrible: oligarchy, profit motive; patriarchy, nation-states, ethno-centrisms. They fuel our problems: class and sectarian strife, destruction of climate and people, spiritual desertification.

They are so total that the aspiration to ethical behaviour is subsumed by their logics. See: social enterprise; corpos and occupying forces flying rainbow flags; etc.

Nowadays, when I hear "ethical", I don't hear "we remember to be decent". I hear "we must work to be better". Good ethics is radical transformation.

If a videogame shooter crosses a line for you, your only real response is to stop playing. This is true for other mechanically-bounded games, like CCGs or boardgames.

In TTRPGs, players have the innate capability to act as their own referees. (even in GM-ed games adjudications are / should be by consensus.) If you don't like certain aspects of a game, you could avoid it---but also you could change it.

Only in TTRPGs can you ditch basic rules of the game and keep playing.

So:

D&D's rules are an engine for accumulation: more levels, more power, more stuff, more numbers going up.

If you build a subsystem in D&D for egalitarian action, but have to quantify it in ways legible to the game's other mechanical parts---what does that mean? Is your radical aspiration feeding into / providing cover for the game's underlying logics of accumulation?

At the very least it feels unsatisfactory---"non-representative of what critique / revolution entails as a rupture," to quote Marcia, in conversations we've been having around this subject, over on Discord.

How do we imagine and represent rupture, to the extent that the word "revolution" evokes?

My proposal: we rupture the game.

+++

How To Play The Revolution

Over the course of play, your player-characters have decided to begin a revolution:

An armed struggle against an invader; overturning a feudal hierarchy; a community-wide decision to abandon the silver standard.

So:

Toss out your rule book and sheets.

And then:

Keep playing.

You already know who your characters are: how they prefer to act; what they are capable of; how well they might do at certain tasks; what their context is. You and your group are quite capable of improv-ing what happens next.

Of course, this might be unsatisfactory; you are here to play a TTRPG, after all. Structures are fun. Therefore:

Decide what the rules of your game will be, going forward.

Which rules you want to keep. Which you want to discard. Jury-rig different bits from different games. Shoe-horn a tarot deck into a map-making game---play that. Be as comprehensive or as freeform as you like. Patchwork and house-rule the mechanics of your new reality.

The god designer will not lead you to the revolution. You broke the tyranny of their design. You will lead yourself. You, as a group, together. The revolution is DIY.

+++

Notes:

This is mostly a thought experiment into a personal obsession. I am genuinely tempted to write a ruleset just so I can stick the above bit into it as a codified procedure.

I am tickled to imagine how the way this works may mirror the ways revolutions have played out in history.

A group might already have alternative ruleset in mind, that they want to replace the old ruleset with wholesale. A vanguard for their preferred system.

Things could happen piecemeal, progressively. Abandon fiat currency and a game's equipment price list. Adopt pacifism and replace the combat system with an alternative resolution mechanic. As contradictions pile up, do you continue, or revert?

Discover that the shift is too uncomfortable, too unpredictable, and default back to more familiar rules. The old order reacting, reasserting itself.

I keep returning to this damn idea, of players crossing thresholds between rulesets through the course of play. The Revolution is a rupture of ethical reality like Faerie or the Zone is a rupture in geography.

But writing all this down is primarily spurred by this post from Sofinho talking about his game PARIAH and the idea that "switching games/systems mid-session" is an opportunity to explore different lives and ethics:

Granted this is not an original conceit (I'm not claiming to have done anything not already explored by Plato or Zhuangzi) but I think it's a fun possibility to present to your players: dropping into a parallel nightmare realm where their characters can lead different lives and chase different goals.

Jay Dragon tells me she is already exploring this idea in a new game, Seven Part Pact:

"the game mechanics are downright oppressive but also present the capacity to sunder them utterly, so the only way to behave ethically is to reject the rules of the game and build something new."

VINDICATION! If other designers are also thinking along these lines this means the idea isn't dumb and I'm not alone!

+++

( Images:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-23-fronts-and-generals.1497106/

https://www.thestranger.com/race/2017/04/05/25059127/if-you-give-a-cop-a-pepsi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames

https://nobonzo.com/

https://pangroksulap.com/about/ )

#theory #ttrpgs #politics #revolutions #proposals #pariah

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simplypluraldesigns · 11 months ago

Note

Any SP folder ideas for someone where folders like roles (too many hyperspecific roles) or introjects (too many sources & usually only 1 or 2 per source) doesn't work much? We have been dabbling in possibly making a hierarchy folder since we're hierarchical, but all we have right now are subsystems (group kind) & birthdays.

Also any ideas for making it look nice and best way to put things in what order? I know I've seen some have something like

Information Folder: SystemInfo, AlterInfo

Extras Folder: Disorders

Interaction Folder: Free to Interact, Only Interact if We Initiate First

And so forth.

I've created a layout with everything I could think of that might be useful for organization. I know you mentioned roles/sources not working well but I kept those in incase anyone else would find it useful to have.

I'm not entirely sure about the disorders folder as I would assume that's just a role thing for alters that hold the disorders. If there's anything I missed that you can't figure out how to add from this design let me know.

I wasn't sure how to portray different layers of folders so I hope these arrows make sense to show what would go in what folder. Also the folders will not be in that order when you make them as I didn't alphabetize them here. I wasn't sure how you would design the folders so feel free to use symbols, numbers, letters, emojies, etc to get them in an order you like.

╰┈➤ Alter Info

╰┈➤ Roles

╰┈➤ Sources

╰┈➤ Fragments

╰┈➤ Activity

╰┈➤ Active

╰┈➤ Dormant

╰┈➤ Interaction

╰┈➤ Safe to Interact

╰┈➤ Interact with Caution

╰┈➤ Do Not Interact

╰┈➤ Characteristics

╰┈➤ Genders

╰┈➤ Sexualities

╰┈➤ Romantic Orientation

╰┈➤ Amory

╰┈➤ Species

╰┈➤ Ages

╰┈➤ Alter Types

╰┈➤ Brainmade

╰┈➤ Introject

╰┈➤ Regressors

╰┈➤ Age Regresses

╰┈➤ Pet Regresses

╰┈➤ Verbality

╰┈➤ Extra

╰┈➤ Split Dates

╰┈➤ Birthdays

╰┈➤ Front Status

╰┈➤ Has Fronted

╰┈➤ Has not fronted

╰┈➤ Will not front

╰┈➤ Sign Offs

╰┈➤ Has Sign Off

╰┈➤ Does Not

╰┈➤ Profile

╰┈➤ Fully Filled Out

╰┈➤ Missing Info

╰┈➤ Updates Needed

╰┈➤ System Info

╰┈➤ Hosts

╰┈➤ Co-Hosts

╰┈➤ Frequent Fronters

╰┈➤ Subsystems

╰┈➤ Side Systems

╰┈➤ Layers

╰┈➤ Innerworld Housing

╰┈➤ Groups

╰┈➤ Social Groups

╰┈➤ Role Groups

╰┈➤ Families

╰┈➤ Romantic Relationships

#cdd system #did osdd #did system #did/osdd #osdd #osddid #polyfrag system #osdd system #pdid system #pdid #simply plural #system stuff #simply plural layout

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tsel-bas · 5 months ago

Text

Welcome To The Factory!

Basic Information:

(Warning this is a very long post)

!NO RADQUEERS PLEASE!

!THIS IS NOT SELLING HEADMATES AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SYSTEM HOPPING/TRAVELLING!

We are a factory that creates/helps create different parts of systems! Whether that be a singular headmate, a group, a sisasystem, a headspace, a sentispace or something else! We can’t create entire systems themselves though, that’s up to you and your abilities in Willogenic practices!

We want to work alongside other blogs like this one and help the community! We want to help you fill out your system, and maybe even help other headmates to finish forming and grasp a sense of identity for systems that may or may not be interested in creation.

If we don’t know a lot about what you want, which we might not but will provide a list of things we are knowledgeable in, then we hope you will provide a bit of extra information! We will do most of the research ourselves though!

Information about requests will be below!

Templates:

You can provide areas of information that you would like or fill out one of these templates! All can be edited and randomized at request.

Individual Headmate:

Name(s):

Pronouns:

Gender Identity:

Sexual/Romantic Orientation:

Preferred Terms:

Age:

Role:

Type:

Source: (Will always be this blog, unless you request a introject, but will include us saying that we practically “edited” said introject)

Description:

Faceclaims:

+ Any extra information you’d desire! (Likes, dislikes, etc.)

Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

Group Of Headmates:

Same as above, but with multiple versions for different, individual headmates to form in a group. Often based around a theme, but can be otherwise. Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

Sidesystems:

Similar to a group, but is placed outside the main system. May or may not have a way to access them. Can be based off themes or be completely individual and independent from one another. Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

Subsystem:

Similar or the same as a group or sidesystem. But is usually within a certain headmates own consciousness. If you would like to include one of your already existing headmates into the system please let us know. May or may not be themed. May or may not have a collective identity. Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

Name(s):

Pronouns:

Age Range:

Role(s):

Type(s):

Non-Sentient Headspace:

This requires descriptions to help with visialization.

Ecosystem(s):

Structure(s):

Weather:

Day/Night Cycle? (Yes/No/Always Day/Always Night):

Time Flow (Normal, different?)

+Any extra information you’d like to include

Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

Sentispace:

Name(s):

Age:

Gender Identity:

Sexual/Romantic Orientation:

Type:

Role:

+Any extra requested information

Can be randomized/dealers choice on request.

What We Will Or Will Not Do:

We Will/Can Do:

Things based off of most aesthetics, gore/horror themes and such will have trigger/content warnings for those who are sensitive to such content.

Things relating to subjects we are somewhat knowledgeable about. Such as: Minecraft + MCYTs (DSMP/QSMP, etc.), Subnautica, Slime Rancher, Stardew Valley, Pokémon, The Legend of Zelda (Mostly botw/totk), Books, Space, Animals, Legos, Anime, The Backrooms, SCP Foundation, and more.

Things that will require a little bit of research from us, basically things we aren’t that knowledgeable about.

Nonhuman/Alterhuman related things

Can add disso and Aldernic terms upon request

+More

Won't/Cant Do

Anything related to real people (Factives), Such as celebrities, Minecraft youtubers (Will do their characters, just not the person themselves), and people you know.

Anything offensive, like based off of slurs and such that we most definitely cannot reclaim.

SA/SH/ED related things

Radqueer/TransID/TransX related things

+More

We Have The Right to Deny/Delete Any Request We Receive. Especially If They Are Sent In When Requests Are Closed.

We Will Have A Maximum Of 5 (Five) Requests.

There Is Only One System As A Mod Here. We Ask Of You To Be Patient With Us. We Will Include Any Requests We Currently Below:

Current Requests: 4/5 (Four of Five) Ògregulator Little Homura - Madoka Magica Mitzi The Luna Moth Squishable Ostentatia Wallace - Dimension 20

Claimed Tags: -🩸Anon -🦷 Anon

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multiplicity-positivity · 2 years ago

Text

Info and Resources for Questioning Systems

Our old post with resources is out of date and doesn’t have that much information, so we’ve decided to put this together! Please let us know if we should make any corrections or if you have resource ideas you’d like us to add to this post.

NOTE: Before we get started, it’s so important to mention that every system should rule out trauma first before considering other origins. This is because complex dissociative disorders can present in covert ways, and function by hiding trauma from some alters. Even if you’re certain you’re not traumatized, please research and understand complex dissociative disorders before learning about other origin types. It’s possible to not remember or misunderstand trauma. Ruling it out first will save you a lot of difficulty and heartache in the future!

NOTE 2: As a system, we understand the terms “tulpa” and “tulpamancy” are cultural appropriation, and believe that as a community a different term for these systems should be selected. However, until that happens, we will continue to link handy resources for these sorts of systems.

Now, onto the resources!

This is not a complete list! If there’s any resource you’ve found useful and would like us to add, please get in touch!

Websites:

CDD (DID and OSDD-1) Specific:

Beauty after Bruises, and especially their article on myths and misconceptions about DID

Multiplied by One, a DID nonprofit that has a wealth of resources on dissociative disorders and CPTSD (and offering support for those in need!)

First Person Plural, another great nonprofit

ISSTD’s public resources

The Cleveland Clinic’s page on DID

Survivors’ Network (not to be confused with the Survivors’ Network Discord) page on DID

The National Alliance on Mental Illness’ info on dissociative disorders

DIS-SOS, a blog with tons of info on trauma, dissociation, and living with both

osdd.one, a site with information on complex dissociative disorders with a focus on OSDD-1

NAMI Michigan’s DID fact sheet

The Healthy Place’s blog on Dissociative Living

Non-CDD Specific:

What is Plurality/Multiplicity? by YoppVoice

More than One

Tulpa.io, Tulpanomicon, and Tulpa.info, all sites where tulpas, thoughtforms, willomates, and their creators can share their experiences

The Daemon Page

Daemonism 101

Manchester Metropolitan University’s Understanding Multiplicity

Plurality-Resources (traumagenic, not CDD, specific)

The Plurality Playbook, a resource for plurality in the workplace (for employees and managers)

Endogenic Hub

The Dissociative Initiative includes resources for both CDD systems and others who experience multiplicity

Soulbonding Info Carrd

Pluralpedia, a plurality wiki created and maintained by systems for systems

Podcasts:

The System Speak Podcast

The Bag System Podcast

Tumblr Blogs:

@pluraldeepdive

@system-society

@dear-systems

@plural-culture-is

@subsystems

@plurals-helping-plurals

YouTubers:

The Alexandrite System

FragmentDID

The Rings System

The CTAD Clinic

(psst! if you’re an endogenic/not-trauma formed system YouTuber, please let us know! we’d love to check out your videos and add your channel to this list!)

Other:

This Google Drive folder has 13 books on mental health, with a focus on dissociative disorders and trauma.

This Google Drive folder also has a bunch of great resources (keep in mind there are some repeats in both drives)

UTEP’s Mental Health Awareness Training infographic on dissociative disorders

Our own posts on Understanding DID, Establishing Contact with Headmates, Dissociative Amnesia, and Depersonalization vs. Derealization

Seeking help through therapy:

(specifically specialists in dissociative disorders)

Psychology Today’s search page for finding therapists who specialize in dissociative disorders

Carolyn Spring’s article, How to find a therapist for a dissociative disorder

The ISSTD’s Find a Therapist page

Websites we do NOT recommend can be found here! Note: some of the resources we’ve linked here have their own links to websites we don’t recommend. Please use your best judgement when visiting sites, and understand that we as a system DO NOT endorse the sites listed in the link above, even if we’ve included resources that link to those sites.

We hope y’all are able to find some of this useful! Again, please let us know if you have any resources you’d like us to add to this list. Thanks so much, everyone!

#multiplicity #pluralgang #plurality #actuallyplural #endogenic #traumagenic #plural resources #system resources #dissociative identity disorder #did osdd #osdd did #long post #questioning system #trauma mention #abuse mention

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revalition · 28 days ago

Text

OCT 23 - PERCEPTION See, hear and smell everything. Let no detail go unnoticed.

perception my beloveds. my lovelies. my darlings. this one is pretty different from what we usually do, idk I wasn't feeling super excited about drawing their design multiple times so just let Conceptualization do whatever they wanted... :)

one thing that was important to me was they don't! get to have hands! because there is no Perception (Touch)! That is Interfacing's job, Interfacing is the fingers (and H/E coordination is the rest of the hands I guess)

anyway lots of quotes and rambly thoughts under the cut!

Okay I have to share this quote from a ted talk we (primarily Logic) watched:

"Imagine being a brain. You're locked inside a bony skull, trying to figure what's out there in the world. There's no lights inside the skull. There's no sound either. All you've got to go on is streams of electrical impulses which are only indirectly related to things in the world, whatever they may be. So perception -- figuring out what's there -- has to be a process of informed guesswork in which the brain combines these sensory signals with its prior expectations or beliefs about the way the world is to form its best guess of what caused those signals. The brain doesn't hear sound or see light. What we perceive is its best guess of what's out there in the world." - Anil Seth

and I was like oughhh this really makes me reconsider how I see Perception's role. There's other evidence that Perception's existence is more "in" the brain than many of the other skills... like, the physical brain, not the mind. Perception (Smell) even directly communicates with the Limbic System, who refers to them as the olfactory system. I touched on it a bit in my electrochemistry post but the olfactory system and limbic system share pathways in the brain which might be why those two are more connected. Of note -- the olfactory system is *only* smell, not any of the other senses.

limbic system even acknowledges it's unhealthy of perception to linger on the apricot smell so much. which is true -- you can even get the thought "Apricot Chewing Gum Scented One" which gives +2 to Perception upon completion.

It also raises the question of if perception observes all the senses and simply labels for you which one they are using to make the observation, or if each of the 5 senses is independent. bet you can't guess what our headcanon is on that :) (subsystem perception and drama my most beloveds)

is this making any sense?? are you seeing my vision here

anyway look how silly they are now <333

thank you perception (sight) it's a trivial check but I like that you could still fail it and just... not be able to see what the lieutenant is showing you

on the same vein I remember something from a while ago where someone had 0 perception and couldn't interact with any doors? My first playthrough I had 1 motorics and I feel like I remember putting something on that dropped my perception to 0 and I couldn't get into my room at the whirling... but I could be completely misremembering both these things. If this rings a bell please tell us haha

perception in the dream :(((

perception (smell)'s comment here is so funny to me. they are *so* excited to sneeze

your nose denying rhetoric's claims to smelling communism never stops being hilarious. it did *not* tell you that and it is not taking responsibility!

WHY is this perception (hearing) ????

nooo detective hyperopia go get reading glasses. Also harry can go find the prescription lenses and put them on and perception is like no! -1 perception! nausea-inducing hell glasses! which -- fair, they're the wrong prescription and probably for nearsightedness. but harry probably is like what do you waaant

yes yes I love this one

hghh perception fail nooo

does our harry have tinnitus? :(

thank you for the clarification on the speaker quantity

they get so excited when they get to smell something!!

perc (sight) calling you sir?

they like the well laid pallet <3

🥺

hggh perc (smell) is so funny

this whole thing, of you sniffing your nasty toilet ledger, is *so* funny. "Quelle fuckin' surprise" lives in my head and has been integrated into our vocabulary

a few more for the alternate dialogue choices!

Love this one... it's so cool.

super trustworthy perc (hearing) over here

rare wonderful perc (taste) !!!

thank you for the insight. this is a medium difficulty check btw

ty perception (sight) ily

description of how evrart's container smells if you were wondering...

though the perception passive fails are also always delightful --

PERCEPTION (SMELL) - ... an office? Something officious? Is that a word? There's a bit of dust in the air that may be triggering your allergies.

that is a word, but that's not what it means love. Authority is officious, not the shipping container

ough this one is such a cool quote. and it upsets you.

I just suffered volition damage from another perception quote (not included here) dammit. this game. Ily perception but also why you gotta perceive so much

love this one. love that perc (sight) is able to read the headline on a scrap of newspaper drifting by (legendary difficulty check)

lastly including this one... one of only two difficulty 20 passives in the game. The electrochemistry check is difficulty 14 -- he can pick up on it long before your nose has a chance to. the smell will haunt you forever.

there are also a few instances of Perception having dialogue without the sense being specified. I picked through my DE screenshots but didn't have any instances so I'm unsure if it's a fayde quirk or not. I feel like I remember seeing it happen in game but... not certain. It is interesting though, might happen when you're using multiple senses at once. Also seems to happen in instances where the touch sense would usually come in (there is no perception (touch)).

I assumed for ages that perception was the 5 senses, so realizing there's only sight, hearing, smell and taste was surprising. Interfacing takes over the touch aspect pretty much entirely. And the inland is your 6th sense ofc <3

also our Logic is the neuroscience nerd so if our amateur insights are wrong go ahead and call him out :)

Ok! that's it for perception!! not gonna finish skilltober by end of october but that's okay, it'll trail into early november a little

#skilltober #de perception #disco elysium skills #de skills #disco elysium #rev art

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sysmedsaresexist · 7 months ago

Note

hey! so i saw in one of your posts that a lot of system terminology that ppl claim is stolen isn't actually stolen, i'd like to know if you have a list or source with terms that aren't stolen? thank you in advance!

This is actually a bit of a hard ask. It would be impossible to list them all, and every time I turn around someone is saying a new term is stolen. Sourcing most of this would be impossible, as the proof is either in the complete lack of use in clinical literature (eg system hopping, with my all access, I've never seen it used, even within RAMCOA literature, and @sophieinwonderland found the coining of it, if you want to drop a link to it), or its extreme overuse in other fields and concepts (eg system).

Obviously system hopping isn't stolen, system reset is one we never wanted and isn't ours, side system is community made.

Endogenic, traumagenic, and dissociation don't belong to us.

System itself is better said to have started in clinical literature for early DID but has expanded to so much more. Fighting this point is a losing battle, and that has nothing to do with endos and more to do with IFS therapy and it being such a generic word with so many uses. So long as people stop lying and saying it was never used for DID before IFS therapy in the 80s, I don't care about this one. It's like fighting with a programmer over computer system because its use in that respect is implying people with CDDs aren't human. I have issues with shared language and I wish there were different terms, but you have to just accept this one.

Most endos are pretty respectful about system roles, and they're not too interested in using them, much like introject, dormancy, and alter. Most endos burst into flames if you so much as even think those words in their direction. This falls into the same problem as system, and it was more IFS that fucked it, not endos, so while I'm extremely protective over some terms, like introject, persecutor and protector, you can't really help it. Look at the word little, it's not only endos using it. Even the very IDEA of system roles exists in IFS. Like, if you ask me, I think IFS might be what a number of endogenic systems are experiencing, but that's a topic for another time.

Plural was never for people with DID, multiple was the typical/preferred term for the longest time for medicalized systems, but I've actually seen the opposite happening and CDD systems are saying multiple is the endo term and plural is ours. Weird, but okay.

Fictive started in the soulbonding community.

Alter and subsystem are both so convoluted in psychiatry that the most you can say is that they're general clinical terms. I don't know why any endo would want to use them, but I do see subsystem used a bit (and my wording was that most words aren't stolen).

I'm sure people can think of a thousand others, but I think that covers the major ones.

Thanks to @pluraldeepdive for the help with this one, give them a follow if you're not already, their blog is wonderful.

#syscourse #pro syscourse conversation #debunk #CDD history #plural history #pro endo #anti endo #endo neutral #did #osdd #system #osddid #plural

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wishcamper · 10 months ago

Text

All in the Family: ACOTAR and Bowenian family systems theory, PART I

CW: addiction, family trauma, dog death

Creds: licensed therapy person and member of a dysfunctional family

There’s a lot of parts to this and a lot I’m excited to explore, so we’ll start with an overview and introduction of some core concepts. I'm going to take a look at the IC as it's own family system, the subsystems within it, and what these dynamics tell us about the culture of the IC.

The Basics

Murray Bowen created Family Systems Theory to explain the interconnected dynamics and emotional patterns within families that can span generations.

All members play a part in how the system functions, through both action and inaction, and members influence each others’ behavior.

In dysfunctional systems, members project and displace their emotions onto others, feel responsible for the emotions of others, and/or cut off and suppress emotionally to avoid conflict and instability.

The same strategies tend to get used over and over.

Of note: there are many criticisms of this theory, including lack of depth regarding gender disparity, pathologizing of regular emotions, and a very Western (and ableist) goal of complete personal emotional independence. I have found Bowen’s techniques not very helpful in practice, but his ideas provide a great framework for conceptualizing how energy moves in a family and the interconnectedness of the system through generations. So, take all this with a grain of salt given those limitations and that these people are fictional and often contradictory in their words and actions.

Core Concept 1: Differentiation and Enmeshment

The main goal in Bowen’s theory is for all beings in the system to achieve differentiation, meaning they are able to hold onto their sense of self even when emotionally intimate with others. The opposite of differentiation is enmeshment, where members emotions are dependent on and influenced by one another in ways they are not aware of or have no control over. Some people also call this ‘codependent’, aka ‘we are both dependent on your stability to feel emotionally safe’.

Example: Partner A feels anxious taking off work for vacation, and tries to micromanage their family during the trip to attempt to relieve it. In a well-differentiated system, Partner B can recognize the behavior has nothing to do with them, and set a boundary about how Partner A engages with the family. “I appreciate that you’re stressed, A. I need you to figure out a way to handle it without being all over me and the kids.” The anxiety becomes Partner A’s to process instead of being displaced on the others.

In an enmeshed system, Partner B might mirror Partner A by micromanaging the children too, or monitoring themselves very carefully, or trying to create conditions that will not upset A. Partner A avoids dealing with their anxiety because everyone else is doing it for them. In an enmeshed system, members take inappropriate responsibility for managing the feelings of others.

In the opposite system, where emotions are suppressed to keep the status quo, Partner B may act like everything is fine, leaving the children to bear the brunt of the anxiety. B might retreat emotionally from the family and appear aloof or cold. The balance is the important part, because whatever the status quo, families tend to repeat the same emotional processes over and over in different situations, like variations on a theme.

These cycles lead to feedback loops:

Enmeshed: Partner A abuses alcohol and Partner B helps them cover it up. A is shielded from natural consequences of their drinking, and B is relieved of the fear of having to confront it and create conflict in the relationship. Both partners use the other to regulate their uncomfortable emotions.

Suppressed: Partner B leaves the room every time conflict arises, and never addresses it later. A stops bring up problems because B will leave anyway. Tension is never resolved because everyone is invested in pretending they don’t exist.

Core Concept 2: Triangles and Displacement

One of the most important concepts in Bowen’s theory is the power of the triangle. I’m going to go into this more later when it comes to Cass/Az/Mor, but within the IC we see a number of compelling triangles.

Rhysand, Cassian, and Azriel

Feyre, Nesta, and Elain

Cassian, Azriel, and Mor

Rhysand, Feyre, and everybody else lumped together

Bowen says triangles happen because they provide a way for dyads to relive unaddressed tension without direct conflict. We see this a lot in divorces with children, where parents will try to recruit the child to “their side”. Dyads can displace their conflict onto a third party, which provides emotional relief. Triangles are particularly compelling because the shifting of alliances is ongoing and can be used to access power and meet unmet needs.

Think about the Archeron sisters. There’s a certain power in being the two sisters closer to each other and not the one left out. Up through ACOWAR, Feyre often remarks on Elain and Nesta being the closer sisters, which Nesta leverages to protect Elain. Nesta communicates her anger at Feyre and the world she believes Feyre brought to them by directing it through concern for Elain’s safety, which Feyre is unable to argue against. We see the same pattern in ACOSF when Feyre and Elain are getting along, and how they use it as a tool to pressure Nesta into conforming. We are able to be close, so if you can’t it’s probably because there’s something wrong with you, so we don’t have to feel badly about you falling apart. Nesta becomes the scapegoat for unresolved guilt about the effects of the war.

In the Rhys-Cass-Az triangle, the goal seems to be more about enforcing the rules of the family as the ‘safe place’ for all of them. Pre-ACOTAR, after the Cass/Mor incident, Az and Rhys punish Cassian emotionally for breaking the dicks before chicks code that threatens the stability of their relationships. Conversely in ACOFAS, Rhys and Az agree not to tell Cass about the scope of Illyrian unrest to *checks notes* not ruin his Christmas. They externally manage Cassian’s emotions for him, and by extension their own worry, by leaving him in the dark (a favorite strategy of Rhys) so they can all have a nice holiday together, like they always do. Rhys says over and over he needs this happy time, then extends that need to everyone else and recruits Az to make that happen.

I’m not commenting on whether these triangles are healthy or unhealthy, just pointing out that they exist to leverage power and get needs met.

Core Concept 3: Homeostasis and the Nuclear Family Emotional Process

Tiny storytime.

When I was in college, my mom called me one day and said they put my dog to sleep the week before. I was devastated, and furious given it had been planned beforehand. I felt robbed of the opportunity to say goodbye in any meaningful way. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized this is the status quo in my family - we don’t look hard things in the face. We use avoidance as a strategy to not deal with our own and each others emotions. We don’t talk about dad’s drinking, or why mom is blank and locked in her own head, or my sister’s compulsive perfectionism, or my one-woman mission to self-destruct in as many ways as possible. We are a family of avoiders. We don’t talk about it. We don’t talk about it.

Bowen call this dysfunction the 'nuclear family emotional process' , and explains that there are four major patterns that emerge in families:

Marital conflict

Dysfunction in a spouse

Impairment of one or more children

Emotional distance

These patterns can and do play out at the same time, to varying effects. The particular combination a family has dictates where and when problems tend to arise in the system, and how they're dealt with.

As an adult, I’ve tried really hard to break out of the pattern of my family. Through my own darkness and recovery, I’ve worked to honor my own needs and emotions as valid and worth spending time with. When I go home I still get sucked into that pattern, because resisting means being the one who makes everyone look at their problems, a thing they really don’t want to do.

Because, as Bowen asserts, system resists change. Systems are carefully balanced and want homeostasis. So when someone tries to change the system, the others compensate to bring them back in line and restore balance.

Think about Lingerie-gate from ACOFAS. Mor sees Cassian emotionally invested in Nesta, which draws away from the emotional investment he has in her and the rest of the IC. She makes a move to reassert her significance in his life as a woman, and scores a double hit by showing Nesta that Mor is higher status in the system and she should back off (so much more on this in another post).

When Azriel pursues Elain in ACOSF, Rhysand pulls rank hard with the rationale of political implications, but I think it’s because it could create conflict between his loyalty to Feyre and to the rest of his family. If Azriel and Elain get together and it goes badly, Rhys would be forced to choose between loyalty to Feyre’s sister or to Az. And I think he’s made it clear he’ll always choose Feyre. He would have to maintain the system by casting his brother out.

The Archeron sisters throw the system out of whack because loyalties are realigned and power hierarchies are being disrupted. I think a lot of the drama we seen on and off page comes from this upset and the way the IC tries to rebalance their dysfunctional system.

So that’s where I’ll leave it for now. I’m still puzzling through the power structure, because while it’s clear Rhys is at the top, the others are less clear to me. Mor is definitely above Cass and Az, but Elain jumps the queue at some point during ACOSF and idk what the hell to do with Amren.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed, class dismissed! You can find PART II here.

Source: Brown, J. (1999). Bowen family systems theory and practice: Illustration and critique. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 20(2), 94-103.

#prythian university #acotar #family systems #family dysfunction #Murray Bowen #putting my master's degree to WORK honey

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rin-and-jade · 9 months ago

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A Layer, or just a Subsystem Area?

I think the 4 types of subsystems post had garnered some attention, and people might now think, how similar is the second type (or, Tersynd) to a layer? How to differentiate it? And what contrasting feature/purpose it has?

For the anon who requested this, here is a compact post on it!

Layer:

A layer, by its general definition, means:

"one thickness, course, or fold laid or lying over or under another" (from merriam webster)

Basically for this context, it means there is a specific line that separates two things, making it easily distinguishable that it is not one with the part, or is the same one. Take a strawberry cake for an example, it has sponge as its base, then cream, more base, whisked in icing, and topped with a strawberry on top; we can easily tell the separation between the filling and the sponge.

How this example can be applied to system layers is as simple as different areas that have their own 'vibe' or a route first in order to reach there, lets take that like a lobby of a hotel, and the lounge floor with pool and bar, and the rooms are different areas, because they are placed differently and have an access point, in total there are 3 layers.

Though, layers doesn't always have to be qualified by being separated in a stacking manner, horizontally or vertically only. Layers like needing to enter 'portals' or any type of transitional hallways also work! Supposedly, even a front room counts as a layer, because you cannot really talk to the person unless you're in that same area too, and that means you need to go there when being in another area of the innerworld. It's also to separate different kinds of alters, though more broad or vague, it depends on innerworkings of the system. (aka based on hierarchy or species or timeline)

Subsystem area:

A subsystem, by its general definition, means:

"a system (structure) that forms parts of a larger system" (from cambridge dictionary)

For this context, subsystems can also mean having an inner, or smaller group in a system, sub- which can mean a branch or a group of a specific kind from the general/main one. The most used definition of a subsystem is when there are alters inside an alter, but even that it also reinforces the idea of having another group inside, somewhere.

Subsystem in general meanings can be explained by mentioning parts that works interconnectedly in human biology, e.g. the nervous system, respiratory system, etc. and these subworking parts together is the whole biology in the big picture.

Using this same example, we then can have an intuitive sense that subsystems have areas that only certain parts can access into, for its own related purpose of area/group,, as how some blood may only go to certain parts of the organ to bring oxygen and can return to the main point (the heart) and do not traverse anywhere else except its designated path-to-organ. So while this does separate parts too, they're usually more specific than to layers.

Comparison:

So, we now know that a layer is:

visibly separated area

more public-accessible

can be bigger in size (up to a whole ecosystem/biome)

While a subsystem area is:

a more exclusive area, separated for specific people (non-public)

sometimes not as big as layers

made from a specific purpose/reason

They only have one similar quality, which is areas that has to accessed via en route as its not part of the usual main area.

Differentiating it:

Which means, the only way to tell if it is a layer or a subsystem area is from how many people can get in, and wether they have a specific purpose/qualification, and wether the area is more expansive or more limited. Because sometimes some cannot even traverse between layers, though it depends on how a system works, some can travel to all layers with no problem,, which makes this criteria even trickier.

Conclusion is, by looking on those three main points! (bolded ones)

And with that, you can have a better guess wether it is a layer or a subsystem area instead.

Last notes here, i hope that explains everything,, let me know if this needs fixing or anything else to add, which i can edit. Do you guys think this is helpful enough? Feel free to comment about it!

- j

#did #actually did #did community #did osdd #did system #dissociative identity disorder #sysblr #plural #system stuff #jeducates

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dailycharacteroption · 7 days ago

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Subsystems and You 14: Wounds and Vigor

(art by AlexKuhn on DeviantArt)

If you’ve been playing ttrpgs or even video games with rpg elements for a while, you may have already figured out or been told that hit points are an abstraction much like many things in the game. Living creatures don’t have hp, and it only takes one blow to the right vital organ to send someone into shock as their bodily processes break down and they cease to be.

But as visceral as that is, no rpg is going for a 100% accurate “wounding simulator” Heck, even when Fallout did it, they still have things like percentage bars, as well as leaving body part damage limited to persistent debuffs.

Which is why hp is so very useful. Rather than simply being a measure of how much punishment someone can take, it’s also a measure of how much luck/favor of the gods the character has before their luck runs out and those glancing blows give way to lethal ones, as well as the training to avoid the worst of those blows until exhaustion and blood loss from minor wounds gives way to the big one. Which, when you think about it, handily explains sneak attacks as well, representing blows to the vital areas that are much harder to handwave or write off as minor from a narrative perspective.

And the narrative perspective is very important there, since rpgs are storytelling games, after all.

But maybe you want something a little more visceral, a more clear delineation between “hp as plot armor” and “hp as life-threatening injury”. That is where the optional Wounds and Vigor system comes into play, splitting your hp into effectively two pools with slightly different rules for how they function.

This may immediately remind you of the SP and HP system from Starfinder, and yes, that was probably birthed from this optional system, but as we’ll soon see the exact specifics differ slightly.

So starting off, we have your wound points, which represent when you are truly getting injured and near death. They are equal to twice the character’s Con score, and at half that, the character becomes wounded and staggered in the same way as when a character using the normal hp system would be at 0 hp. However, unlike them, a character in this wounded state only loses a wound point and can roll Con to stay standing.

Meanwhile, we have vigor points, which are generated in the same way that hp is, with hit dice and everything, except that you do not add your constitution mod to the vigor. Whenever you take damage, it is lost from vigor first, then wound.

However, there are a few considerations to make here. Firstly, when healing, you must choose to heal vigor or wound whenever you do so. The former heals the vigor normally, but wounds are harder to recover, healing by one per every die rolled (or per 10 healing for flat healing spells like heal).

Meanwhile, negative energy spells follow the same rules as well, letting you target wound points directly at the cost of dealing effectively minimum damage.

Critical hits also deal bonus damage directly to wound based on the multiplier even if they don’t consume all of the vigor first, representing the grievous nature of the hit.

There are of course other considerations like how certain feats work with the system and how nonlethal damage works, resulting in nonlethal damage being kinda worthless (dealing 1 flat damage to wound with every nonlethal attack), and negative energy spells being potentially lethal in the right circumstances.

So, how does the system hold up? It definitely changes the dynamic a bit, and for some people I can see it being a fun and viable option. I myself don’t really see the point, but that’s just me.

That will do for today though. Tune in tomorrow for more subsystems. This next one may not qualify as a subsystem to some, but it is some important rule text nevertheless.

#pathfinder #subsystem #wounds and vigor #Ultimate Combat

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cloverstarsys · 1 month ago

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So I'm gonna just... idk talk

(Putting all this under a cut both bc it's long and bc syscourse)

So some new anti-endos have made their way into the plural tags. We've been mostly ignoring the syscourse stuff recently because it... admittedly isn't great for us, but I forgot just how cyclical and repetitive it is omg.

"DID is a trauma disorder!" We're not discussing having DID. We're discussing being plural. Just because you(/nay (probably)) don't acknowledge non-DID/OSDD/etc plurality doesn't mean it's not still there. This has been said hundreds of times, or at least that's what it feels like

"Hearing voices is common!" Hey, at least this is a new one. Not sure where it's coming from, though. I mean, yes, some level of it is common, but it really depends on the level. And this talk of DID being uncommon is all dependent on the statistics of how many people actually are diagnosed with DID, and that's not a very solid number. There's not one concrete number of, this percentage of people have DID. Psychologists don't know. All the numbers out there are estimates, and also, dependent on diagnoses. Not everyone gets diagnosed. And all this is assuming DID is the only form of plurality, which it's not!

"Sourcecalls are anti-recovery!" ...???? Seriously, what? At the heart of a sourcecall is a fictive (or factive) looking for those who they know from their source, looking for someone who might share similar experiences to them. I don't see how that's an issue. To be fair, the person who posted this seems to believe alters aren't separate from the "person", like, at all. And I'm getting to this.

"Sub/sidesystems are impossible!" OK look, I have no clue how subsystems work, but I'm going to err on the side of "people say it's something they experience, so I will believe them for now" because I believe in NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE PROVEN WITH FLAT FACTS IN ORDER FOR IT TO EXIST (sorry, I'm getting heated) everything, before it's proven, still exists. Gravity existed before the first theories about it. Etc etc. And who knows, there might be scientific proof of it out there that i just havent found. And when it comes to sidesystems, as far as I know, it's mostly just a separate group of headmates. How is that impossible?

"Alters aren't separate from you!" This post comes from the view of, alters are parts of a whole personality that could have been there had trauma not occurred that caused the disorder. And while yes, that is technically what alters are in a DID system, I don't think it's a bad thing to think of them as separate. Even if scientifically they're not (which I haven't seen any proof of, by the way, but, honestly, there's so little research on plurality it might be hard to come by or just not exist yet. So look above for my opinion on believing people about their lived experiences without scientific proof yet) I don't see how it could hurt to think of your alters as separate people. One of this person's other posts also claims the reason they're not separate "scientifically" is because new alters cam inherit memories. I'm sure that's true, but I don't see how that means they can't be separate people (to the extent allowed by a single human brain, I mean). And they do say at the top of another post that you can *see* your alters as separate people and that doesn't change the "facts" (those "facts" being "alters aren't headmates" (are those not just two different terms to define the same thing?), "alters aren't separate" (well, yes, to an extent, but alters can be significantly more separate than this person is claiming), and just pretty much claiming parts. And while using parts language is entirely valid, do whatever you want, forcing it on others is not. If someone doesn't want to refer to their alters as parts of themself, then they don't have to) but that doesn't change the actual facts of we have no fucking clue what's going on in the brain half the time and significantly more research is needed on non-disordered plurality. Anyways.

I need to get ready for school now, because this post has taken me almost an hour to write lol.

There's no sources for anything I've said, not because they don't exist, but because this was mostly me shouting into the void to help dispel the feelings seeing these posts gave me. There are so many blogs that provide genuine sources and all that, plus individual research is always an option. But even if there isn't research proving something (or disproving it), I'm going to lean on the side of believing peoples lived experiences.

It's always so funny, seeing so many blogs that claim to "correct misinformation" that literally just spread misinfo themselves. I think I've seen... one blog that actually corrects misinfo and isn't biased (either towards or against endogenic systems, just looking at the facts (which, believe it or not, tend to prove non-disordered/non-traumagenic (yes I'm aware those aren't the same thing) systems are real)).

Although I think the reason so many anti-endo sources can be so easily disproven is because they're all talking about DID. we are not talking about DID. you cannot conflate all plurality with just DID.

Ok, I really have to get going now.

(Unless you're really respectful about it. I'm allowing a discussion here right now, don't ruin it by being a dick.)

(Banners by @/lunaridae)

#💧franziska von karma #pro endo #endogenic #syscourse #tw syscourse #keeping the tags light on this one

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many-but-one · 1 year ago

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Hi,

Quick question* regarding polyfragmentation. What do you consider polyfrag? I know that 100+ alter count isn't what makes a system polyfragmented, but as a system with a load of fragments, do these fragments "count" when doing an alter count? We seem to have only around 10ish "main guys", (alters "distinct enough" (not sure on the vocab) to give me a name) but some pretty complex splitting patterns, i think, (a pair of twins, "just some guy tm" repeated, at least 2 "subsystems" (can you have a subsystem with only fragments? I think that's the situation, but I'm not sure) ) and as mentioned before a bunch of fragments (80+ according to a gatekeeper, separated into what I think are subsystems based on trauma "type"). One of those "subsystems" seem to work like a "build-a-bear/potato-head", where a bunch of different frags come together depending on the situation and then split back up again, which seems to be a polyfrag thing, from what I've read? But we usually feel a little stupid when we say "Oh we're polyfrag..ish...???", and then there's the, "well then, how many alters do you have?" "...10.."

Could you write a bit about polyfragmentation, and what the continuum between DID and Pf-DID/C-DID kinda looks like?

Thank you!

*that was not a "quick" question, sorry bout that, and the excessive parenthesis usage.

So, what I understand about polyfragmentation is that it's less about the alter count (100+ alters is just more common) and more about the structure of the system and how the system formed over time. You don't need to go through RAMCOA to be a polyfrag system, either. Here's what I've gathered is "required" for a polyfrag system:

large alter count (yes, fragments count into the alter count, but some systems choose not to consider them since they aren't "whole" however, they are still alters in their own right despite the fragmentation). However, what a system defines as a high alter count to "qualify" for polyfragmentation varies. I've met systems who would "count" as polyfrag who only have about 60 parts and fragments, but they meet a lot of the criteria for polyfrag so they use the label. I've also met polyfrag systems who are so fragmented they cannot even come up with a proper number to describe how fragmented they are, well into the thousands. Those higher number polyfrag systems (like us) also often have frequent fusions and splits that make it difficult to keep an accurate headcount, and most of our fragments have no name or appearance that can be understood. They still count into the headcount, but keeping track of them is nigh impossible. Which is why we just toss out "over 1k+" because that's about as good as it's gonna get for us. We likely have much more than even that but we have no true way of keeping an accurate count and our primary gatekeeper doesn't want us to anyway.

abuse typically starts before the age of five and is integrated into your daily life. More often, the earlier the abuse started and the more integrated into daily life it is, the more your brain has to rely on dissociation as a coping skill and the more often your brain will split alters for any type of situation or stressor. This is most obvious if the trauma began in your pre-verbal years, as you wouldn't have the words to describe what was happening to you or the understanding of what was happening to you, so your brain's FIRST line of defense is dissociation rather than trying to wrap your head around it or speak about it in some way. "Integrated into daily life" means trauma is happening every day or extremely often, and often in multiple aspects of your life. Such as being bullied at school, being abused at home, and having poor interpersonal relationships with people outside of both home and school. This leaves nowhere safe for the child to turn to but their own mind. So a child doesn't need to be tortured endlessly day in and day out to become polyfrag, it's just a more common way for polyfragmentation to occur due to the severity of the abuse and the manipulation that often comes with child torture.

presence of subsystems. Not all systems with subsystems are C-DID, but if they exhibit multiple other signs of polyfragmentation and also have subsystems, then it's likely they are polyfrag. Subsystems are much more commonly seen in C-DID systems. And yes, a subsystem can be primarily fragments and often are. Systems with alter counts that are quite high (60+) will not usually have 60+ alters that are whole and fully formed. More likely they'll have something like what you've got going on, 10-15 "fuller" parts and a whole slew of fragments. In our system (an HC-DID system) we actually don't have that many "full" parts, and all parts except for perhaps two or three who appear to be "full" are actually subsystems (alter in alter types), essentially a part full of fragments to create the illusion of a more full and well-rounded alter. Kind of like a bunch of little guys under a trenchcoat to create the illusion of one guy. I'm pretty sure Aridam (our highest level, primary gatekeeper), Dorian (our former host who is an ANP who holds no trauma), and maybe one of our early life caretakers are the only three that aren't alter-in-alter subsystems who seem to have a "fuller" or more well-rounded personality. Though I may eat my words later.

presence of ANEPs. These are "Apparently Normal Emotional Parts" and these are parts who are traumatized like an EP would be but are also functional in everyday life. Almost all of our host team alters are ANEPs, and from what I've gathered, they're very often "alter in alter" subsystems in both our system and other systems we've encountered. Because they are traumatized but often emotionally detached from the trauma, or have the ability to just not think about it too hard in order to function in everyday life. However, the emotions tied to the trauma have to go *somewhere* and that's usually either held in another alter in the system or held within a fragment in their alter-in-alter subsystem.

complex splitting patterns. The user @multiple-myselves made a post a while back talking about how they and other polyfrag folks have labeled different splitting patterns. They also talk a lot about things that are often seen in polyfragmentation, so if you're needing more answers, I suggest heading over there. They have a lot of good information about the subject. To quote the part of the post that talks about complex splitting patterns (which we only have a screenshot of, unfortunately, as searching tags on tumblr is a pain and a half), some examples of splitting patterns include: "fractal splitting, (parts that split in two and those parts split into two and so on or in a similar pattern), iterative splits (part splits into a fragment that develops into a fuller part and then splits again), splitting multiple parts at once, etc." For us, splitting patterns also include: splitting multiple versions of the same guy (almost like having a "base" that a split starts from. We have so many guys with white hair and blue eyes it's ridiculous, and that's because the "white haired blue eyed boy" is a template that our brain keeps handy. Same with the "black haired blue eyed boy"), splitting a new fragment for a very particular purpose and when that purpose is over, that fragment re-fuses into the part it split from (depending on how long that purpose lasted, this part could have elaborated a bit, which will then make the fused part at the end fundamentally different than when before the split occurred), and for our system some parts are programmed to split a certain number of parts every single time they split, usually a number that's significant to that part's trauma so I won't share the number for our safety.

As for your last question, I'm going to be honest, I only know the experiences of a polyfrag system since I am a polyfrag system. However, from what I can gather, DID systems are not without fragments, but usually the number of fragments won't exceed the number of "fuller" parts, or won't reach an extremely high number. Polyfragmented systems also seem to have an easier time with co-consciousness or having more than just two parts fronting (oftentimes, we can have up to three to five parts fronting or in co-con with a primary fronter at the same time, but that's also because most of those extra folks are fragments. Our communication has gotten to such a point that we can kind of "build a fronter" for a given situation that is needed based on what fragments are able to handle that situation the best. i.e. Marrow is very chill and emotionally level, Gmork is very not chill or emotionally level but very motivated and has high energy levels, and Dire is very well-organized, so having the three of them as a fronting team to get daily life tasks completed like applying for jobs or cleaning an area or feeding the body is a very good fronting "team." In that same vein, Vivek and Vasile are a great fronting team when social situations arise because Vivek is highly social and good at making friends, but he tends to overspend on the body's energy levels, so having Vasile in co-front keeps Vivek's energy in check and also keeps us from being too impulsive. Vivek is very impulsive and while Vasile can be, he's much less so. Dire often helps in these situations as well.)

I hope that this helped to answer your question.

#did osdd #did alters #dissociative identity disorder #manybutone #did system #cdid #polyfrag #polyfragmentation #asks #answered asks #anon ask #anon #advice

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