#nature lifestream

[ostdrossel]

With a lot of headache (IPs stuff drives me nuts!) I managed to get the pond cam livestream back up and running. You can find it above. I also got the Groundcam stream back up and will add a link in the comments. You can also watch both on my website ostdrossel.com :) I am so happy I can watch what happens at night again!

(If the link does not work, I may have had to restart the stream and the program forced me to use another link. check my YT channel for the live cams.)

[emcapi-gaming]

time for more Ardwin fun facts: mysterious(?) origin story edition

To recap: I decided Ardwin was actually one of the original Warriors of Light and got yeeted forward in time by Louisoix, but her memory got completely scrambled, and she remembers nothing before waking up on the ship to Limsa.

Well, I've now managed to put together a lot of the series of events that occurred between those two things.

First: in her case, Louisoix's teleport was a little bit less "elegant time travel" and a little bit more "ye olden Flow, but slightly fancier, and expecting/hoping that the WoL off-the-charts levels of anima will get them out the other side safely."

This, combined with getting smacked with a rejoining while in the middle of the Lifestream, and with the general Calamity memory-fuckery magic to top it all off, is why her memory is absolutely fried.

She pops back out at the five-year mark, as intended, somewhere in the woods of Old Sharlayan, and she is extremely confused (in the medical sense). Her survival instinct and/or Inner Beast manage to kick in, though, and she lives for several days. Until some poor researcher looking for herb samples stumbles across her and nearly has a heart attack because there is a butt-naked Roegadyn in the middle of the forest, very nonchalantly chowing down on an entire raw elk she managed to club to death with a tree branch, looking like one of those photos of wolves covered in blood after a kill.

Seeing another person randomly panic and run away from her snaps her out of it a little bit (which is fortunate, because the researcher runs away and comes back with a security detail, who would have gone the same way as the elk if she was still in Feral Mode and they tried to apprehend her.)

She doesn't say anything, but she obviously understands what they're saying, and lets them get her some clothes and take her back to the city, and to the medical center there. None of the sages or physicians can figure out what's actually wrong with her, but within a few days, she starts acting more lucid and remembering a few words. ("Healer," "food," and "axe!!!" are some of the first ones.)

About a week in, she's back to speaking in full (though short) sentences and obviously getting antsy. One of the physicians escorts her outside for a walk, and then she sees a ship in the harbor and gets very excited and starts going on about something to do with Limsa. It's not clear what she means, but she's increasingly insistent about having to get to Limsa.

The healers are at a bit of a loss for what to do with her (and also a little uncomfortable with the fact that she stole an axe from somewhere, has been clinging to it like a teddy bear, and literally growled the last time someone tried to take it away) so they shrug and stick her on the next ferry to Limsa Lominsa, assuming she must be from there, which also happens to be the same ferry the Leveilleur twins are taking. Partway through this journey is when she gets a little vision from the Mothercrystal, which coincides with the point where her mind has finally recovered just enough to start saving long-term memory again.

...And then, two years later, Ardwin, Champion of Eorzea and Warrior of Light, returns to Sharlayan, and the researcher who originally found her can't fucking believe his eyes because that's the feral Roegadyn from the woods what the FUCK-

[aromantic-and-aromatic]

The way the fantasy in ffvii shows that even magic can become a product, the Lifestream processed into materia to be sold and bought. There aren't people born with magic, not anymore, they're all dead now, all except the one who will save the world. Fantasy through the lense of science fiction, and they're fighting to return just that bit of magic to a world hostile to it.

[capriccio-ffxiv]

/pulls up a chair

what if the real "rejoining" is building bridges between all the shards and opening up trade

and instead of killing these split souls, opening a path for a way that the natural process of a reconnected Lifestream allows for a slow, gentle rejoining, with no sacrifice involved on the part of any of the newly born souls

what if we mend the broken world after all, but instead by building the pieces into something new, rather than trying to force the shape back to how it was

what if we fill our wounds with gold

and become transformed?

[illegiblewords]

Zodiark's Tempering

A lot of people have been confused about whether the Unsundered were tempered (they were) and how tempering works.

Long post under the cut.

First, I'm going to point at the exact line from Emet-Selch in Shadowbringers: "He tempered us. It was only natural. There is no resisting such power."

I believe this was said in one of the ocular cutscenes, but explicitly in no uncertain terms--the Convocation was tempered. This includes the Unsundered. The tempering was, in fact, so powerful, that even after having their souls cleansed in the Lifestream Convocation members still make 'the best servants' according to Emet-Selch.

Zodiark was not only the first primal, but a primal on a scale beyond fathoming. This was half a star's worth of souls, billions of people. I'd argue that we also see what this tempering looks like in practice with Emet-Selch at The Ladder scene in Kholusia, where he is genuinely moved and expresses admiration of both the Warrior of Light and the people of Kholusia coming together only to be railroaded back to 'but the world as it was was better'.

That was not a natural thought pattern. That was tempering. We see further evidence in how Emet-Selch tried repeatedly to live alongside The Sundered and had only the most negative qualities amplified--preventing him from ever finding peace. Hell, it shows in his argument that the qualities of a soul diminish with sundering too. For one, the default quality in a person isn't positive. He frames things in terms of other shards becoming proportionally less intelligent for example, or less kind--but arguably cruelty should have been diminished as well. The civilizations and inhabitants of other shards are also, notably, not at a huge personally/intellectually different framework compared to The Source--where souls are more dense and would (by Hades' argument) have been more advanced and capable.

What we actually know of unsundered versus souls mechanically is that they are more aetherically dense. Being more aetherically dense, it takes more dynamis to influence them. The ancients still feel absolutely and are vulnerable to Meteion, but the sundered are probably a bit more reactive on the whole. It might also be like an inertia situation where once an unsundered starts to feel something it tends to continue and build. That's speculation though.

Zodiark's tempering appears to be closer to magically enforced mental illness in the sense that it warps thought patterns, elevates some tendencies and minimizes/negates others, prevents certain ideas, twists perception, keeps some memories or experiences at the forefront while diminishing or losing others, etc. Psychological wounds that are useful to the mission are kept open artificially well past the point someone would have naturally started to scar over. There is a reason I've been arguing that it's closer to coercion and insanity plea in terms of diminished responsibility. The tempered aren't even able to accurately understand the situations they are in due to thought warping, and claims that their position is reasonable amounts to a completely psychotic person claiming not to be crazy. It's not as simple as mind control from an external source. It's that the person's own thoughts and tendencies are manipulated in unnatural ways to form a cage forcing them into compliance with the primal's mission.

I'd argue it's also very suspect that Elidibus, the lunar shades, and (IIRC) the despairing post-Terminus ancients Venat encountered all separately repeat the exact phrase wishing for 'a world free from sorrow'. Lahabrea explicitly referring to Zodiark as 'the master' at Praetorium strongly indicates tempering too.

A major source of confusion stems from the following scene:

Creation magics are complex and highly sensitive, requiring a tremendous amount of focus. A single moment of distraction can change the outcome of creation. Hades creating his phantom Amaurot having an idle thought 'Hythlodaeus would know the truth' is enough to make the shade of Hythlodaeus aware, even if it wasn't on purpose. Even if it was a split second.

Zodiark was a creation that involved not only the sacrifice of half a star (so likely billions of people)--it also involved the active participation and focus of those people in the summoning process. We know from the environmental storytelling and evidence at Akademia Anyder that I cited in other analysis that Lahabrea was the mind behind the Zodiark concept. We know that the scale of the creation was enormous to the point that it would not function without elevating one individual to steer it--the Heart. This being Elidibus. But the actual summoning was still extremely complex and on a vast scale involving multitudes of people at different skill levels. Hythlodaeus, while experienced as Chief of the Bureau of the Architect, has very limited abilities in creation himself due to aether deficiency. He still sacrificed himself as one of the participants in Zodiark's summoning ritual.

Faith was necessary to simplify the process across that many people of varying life experiences and skill levels. The Convocation would have been handling the more technical elements and forms the concept would take, and guess who was at the head of the Convocation's efforts?

Lahabrea. Who has recently failed to contain Archaeotania despite his people's every faith in him, who we know to be extremely traumatized and has every reason to be terrified not only of the situation but of not performing up to the expectations placed on him. For god's sake, one of the last things Athena said to him involved calling him disappointing after getting full access to his soul.

A single moment of Lahabrea being afraid and hoping everyone would be able to join together to save the star, to be on the same page, would be enough to cause tempering. He's not perfect, but he's been expected to be. He's expected to have perfect composure, impervious to normal human emotions. And of course emotions bled through at a time like that.

The same hope that others would join in to support the mission has bled into every subsequent primal summoning where tempering became a problem.

Venat's summoning technique is different from the summoning technique used by the Ascians. It's also different from the technique used by the Loporrits. Venat used standard creation magic without elevating faith as a tool. She had less people to worry about. The loporrits decided faith would be a useful tool for The Ragnarok insofar as the primals could help fuel its journey, but going off of pure faith rather than the hybrid of faith and strict procedure is dangerous. So they combined the two in a controlled environment knowing the risks.

What Livingway is saying is that using the hybrid technique that is being employed for the first time in that scene, a primal as powerful as Zodiark would cause a slight tug instead of the full force of tempering. Normally there isn't any sense of influence at all with that technique. Zodiark is on a scale and at such a monumental power level that even the safe method would try to influence its summoners along with any bystanders. Zodiark has the most powerful tempering of any primal that has ever existed.

I also want to take a moment to point at what primals are and how they work as distinct from standard creations.

When discussing creations, the shades at Hades' phantom Amaurot mention that souls are gifts from the star and cannot be artificially created. This is part of why Hermes claimed to be so distraught about the way concepts were being handled--there wasn't any accounting for dynamis as a factor.

Livingway mentions that Venat forbade loporrits from making anything possessed of a soul (impossible) or similar.

Here I'm going to point you back to the lecture from the ARR quest What Little Gods Are Made Of:

Primals, brought into being with faith rather than as pure technical concepts, have something like a soul. They are archetypes shared by the living and when they are slain, they aren't destroyed because archetypes can't be destroyed. They return to the aetherial sea, like souls, until they are called forth again. These archetypes reflect common human experiences and desires shared across many, many people. It makes sense that Zodiark would be built off of this premise in the first place as a way of creating common ground with that many participants.

It also makes some sense that something resembling a soul is advantageous, since logistically in FFXIV souls are sources of power in their own right. Thordan, Nidhogg, Shinryu, and The Alexandrians can attest to that.

I understand that there are people who prefer not to use tempering as a key factor in characterization of The Unsundered, and disregard tempering from their headcanons. Obviously this is allowed, but it's not canon. The game is explicit on this point and underlines it multiple times in multiple ways. Hades when told about what lies ahead is completely horrified and does not want to go down the path the Warrior describes--not just for his own sake but because he morally disagrees with it. His line about staying true to his principles at Ultima Thule is deliberately ambiguous--is he referring to pursuit of the Ardor? Trying to save his people? Trying to resist tempering as best he could despite being helpless against it? Giving the Warrior of Light an opportunity to mercy kill him? We don't know.

And regarding the memory of Lahabrea saying he can believe he would get lost trying to save his people to the point of becoming something horrific during Anabaseios... it's very, very important to remember that Lahabrea hates himself. Lahabrea just accepted for years that Erichthonios is better off with the idealized memory of his dead, abusive mother rather than the living father who rescued him. Lahabrea has been ready to commit pseudo-suicide throughout Pandaemonium. His entire Savage transformation design reflects that he thinks the only thing he's good for is being used for his DNA and serving to protect people as Lahabrea. He tries to shield his heart with his wings and the left arm representative of his personal self is long/at a distance, anemic, and basically non-functional due to too many joints. He doesn't want to exist as a person because he hates himself and he expects to be hurt.

And that's before everything to do with The Final Days.

Lahabrea is not a reliable narrator when it comes to questions about whether Lahabrea is a good person. He might be the least reliable source you could find. He is a guilt katamari who is ready to think the worst of himself given the slightest opportunity.

A huge part of what makes Zodiark's tempering interesting is that even if any of the Unsundered are freed, it's difficult to definitively answer the question of whether they might have made the same choices organically. Anything in their heads that might have given them tools to make another choice was taken away. And we know the sundered Convocation members were not tempered when they decided to join The Ardor as Ascians. Fandaniel was able to kill Zodiark because of this.

As it stands though, none of the Unsundered were free. They cannot be judged by the standards of people who are.

I hope this helps clear things up!

[pink-nubes]

What leads AGS into finding each other again? They seem split up all over the globe LOL

Thank you for the ask! They really are all over the globe lol

This will be a bit of a long answer, but also there is more art under this!

So, Angeal and Genesis are the first to reunite. It was a very emotional meeting, they really thought they would never see each other again. They reunite in their hometown, Banora, when Angeal travels back there (though not much of a town anymore). Angeal stays at Genesis' house, they catch up, talk about their feelings. All the things that are going through their minds, be it degradation, regrets, etc.

They kinda naturally gravitate towards each other, they have been a part of each other's lives for so long so it's kinda natural they would feel comfortable even after such a long time. Besides now with the degradation dormant, they can actually think and act more clearly and just be more sincere.

Angeal tries to keep his distance at first (Honor and blah blah). He sleeps on the couch for like two days until Genesis annoys him into just sharing a bed. "We have shared beds since we were kids, don't be stupid".

Genesis talks to Angeal about what he has been up to for the past five years, studying the lifestream, the goddess, and the planet. He tells Angeal that something strange has been going on, and weirdly Angeal tells him that he feels it too. At one point this feeling gets the better of them and they decide to investigate, they leave Banora after a few weeks after meeting again.

And that's what leads them to Sephiroth.

Out of all things, they didn't expect to find Sephiroth, who at this point has been living south of Nibelheim for a bit over two months. But after a few weeks of traveling, they find Sephiroth having a really strong migraine on the side of the river, this particular episode being so strong that it made him physically crumble. The moment Genesis and Angeal see him they know that this was what the lifestream was trying to tell them.

On first instinct, they run up to help Sephiroth. Sephiroth is completely disoriented, most probably thinking that the friends he is seeing are just some strange hallucinations. One thing is for sure, he is desperate to get back to the shed. He knows that these extreme migraines somehow affect the children and he wants to get back to them at all cost.

He mumbles some things to Angeal and Genesis and not knowing what to do, they both just follow his directions and help him walk back all the way to the shed. The moment they get close enough to hear the babies' cries Sephiroth just barges in to comfort them, leaving the other two stunned at the door. These children are the only thing that Sephiroth has, and he is determined to care for them.

Angeal and Genesis are too shocked to see the image of Sephiroth holding three babies close to his chest. They just think they are some random children at first, but when they see the hair and the eyes, they just know there is something else.

[getvalentined]

Decomposition Versus Dissolution: The Breakdown of Bodies in Final Fantasy VII

Warnings for discussion of death, dead bodies, and the desecration thereof, as well as references to digestive and gastrointestinal processes including illness. Features images of dead fictional characters and spoilers for basically the entire Compilation.

This is something I've been chewing on for quite a while, and this post is a bit of a doozy because of detailed examples cited to indicate support for this interpretation. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but it's consistent enough that I'm comfortable personally accepting it as accurate enough, and talking with @skadren about it earlier gave me the impetus to finally organize it well enough to put out into the public sphere. Consider this my personal standard model of Gaian decomposition—if and when we get a better canonical explanation, I'll take it, but for now this works for me, so maybe it'll work for you too!

In the world of Final Fantasy VII, there are four possible outcomes after the death of an animal lifeform:

Decomposition – Organic breakdown of physical remains over time after death, as seen in the real world.

Dissolution – The energetic breakdown of physical remains at the moment of death.

Delayed Dissolution – The sudden energetic breakdown of physical remains at some point after the moment of death, prior to the onset of traditional decomposition.

Rejection – Cases in which the remains neither decompose nor dissolve, physical remains left intact and energetic remains unabsorbed by the Lifestream.

Floral and fungal life appear to be subject only to decomposition, while the outcomes for native microbial and viral lifeforms are unknown. This piece considers all fiends, even those with characteristics similar to floral lifeforms, to be animals, although it's more likely that fiends in-universe comprise their own unique clade on the tree of life.

There's very little information within canonical lore to even directly imply the determining factors for any given outcome, but we can gain insight on these factors by noting when and where a given outcome occurs.

We do have to accept that some instances are based entirely on game mechanics rather than on any lore, as sometimes the field needs to be cleared in order to maintain the gameplay experience, but the fact that we see all of these in cutscenes through the series make it clear that it isn't only a game mechanic.

Based on known instances, prerequisites appear to be as follows:

Decomposition occurs in lifeforms with no or low mako exposure, or with a unique connection to the planet. These remains are able to rot naturally, as that's the most effective way for their remains to feed Gaia's life cycle, helping to "feed" the planet physically as well as energetically. If we consider the reabsorption of living things in terms of digestion, this would be equivalent to consumption of a so-called "whole food." We can assume this is the case based on the existence of livestock within the FF7 universe, and the known canonical instances of this outcome:

• Ifalna – body dissected by Hojo. (source: FF7R)

• Seto – body petrified and intact in Cosmo Canyon (source: OG, FF7R, OTWTAS)

• Aerith Gainsborough – body put to rest in water. (source: OG, AC)

• Dyne – body buried by Dio. (source: FF7R)

• Melphie Kusakabe – body found by Sonon. (source: FF7R)

• Kalm and Nibelheim locals – bodies used in experimentation. (source: OG, BC)

• North Corel and Gongaga locals – bodies buried by other residents. (source: OG, FF7R)

• Wutaian NPCs – bodies found outside Nibel Reactor. (source: FF7R)

• Rhadoran NPCs – bodies buried by Sephiroth. (source: FF7EC)

• Mr. and Mrs. Rhapsodos – bodies buried by Genesis. (source: CCFF7)

• Unnamed Turks – bodies buried by Genesis. (source: CCFF7)

• Most non-fiend animals – The presence of meat makes this pretty obvious. (source: OG, FF7R)

Dissolution occurs in lifeforms with moderate to high mako exposure, presumably due to energetic destabilization at the point of death rendering the remains much easier for the planet to reabsorb. Following the same digestion comparison as above, this is similar to the human body's accelerated processing of refined sugars as compared to raw sugars or whole foods. This also appears to occur based on the will of the planet, but the these cases are extremely rare, with only one known occurrence.

We can assume this is accurate based on the following known instances:

• Grimoire Valentine – body began to dissolve while still alive but actively dying, disintegrating entirely at the moment of death. May be a special case due to cause of death. (source: DCFF7)

• Lazard Deusericus – body dissolved at the moment of death. (source: CCFF7)

• Secondary Project G Subjects – bodies most often seen to dissolve at the moment of death in both gameplay and cutscenes, except in rare cases discussed below. (source: CCFF7, DCFF7)

• Midgar locals – implied by the dramatic lack of corpses following the Sector 7 plate drop. (source: FF7R)

• Shinra employees – implied by the dramatic lack of corpses following Zack's last stand, as well as the presence of equipment but no bodies in Nero's training room. (source: OG, CCFF7, FF7R)

• Various fiends – shown to occur in both gameplay and cutscenes. (source: CCFF7, DCFF7, FF7R, FF7EC)

• Kadaj – body began to dissolve while still alive but actively dying. Dissolution appears to have been based on the will of the planet rather than energetic instability. (source: AC)

Delayed dissolution occurs when the remains have been subject to certain types or levels of energetic corruption, even when paired with high levels of mako exposure. This appears to occur either due to an inability for the planet to reabsorb the remains immediately, or because of a partial rejection from the Lifestream.

Energetic corruption in the world of FF7 is stored in the Void and eventually consumed by Chaos, as shown in Dirge of Cerberus; it's safe to assume that these delays occur due to Chaos being more or less unavailable during the course of known canon, having been removed from its post in the mid-1970s and hosted in Vincent Valentine's body in the early 1980s. This explains the growing pollution of the Lifestream during the course of canon, as the planet's primary filtration system is missing or damaged until after Omega's premature awakening, but the energy in question is still compatible with the Lifestream to a high enough degree to eventually be reabsorbed.

Following the digestion metaphor established earlier, this would be similar to eating heavily processed or partially spoiled food with a damaged gut biome, leading to slow digestion, discomfort, and eventual illness.

These cases are slightly more difficult to confirm, but are proven to occur via cutscenes and narrative in the following instances:

• Zack Fair – body persisted long enough for Cloud to collect himself and leave after a year of catatonia, but neither present at later visits to the location nor indicated in any source to have been recovered following his last stand. Shown to have been "taken" by Angeal, although this may have been strictly thematic. (source: OG, CCFF7)

• Angeal Hewley – confirmed by Hojo's statement via mission brief that his body was not recovered, in spite of having persisted after death in Modeoheim. (source: CCFF7)

• Gillian Hewley – unconfirmed but presumable based on the persistence of her body during the razing of Banora and the delayed dissolution of all primary and some secondary Project G subjects. (source: CCFF7, FF7EC)

• Professor Hojo – as shown in the screenshot at the top of this section. (source: DCFF7)

• Lucrecia Crescent – indicated by her body's persistence even as her energetic remains have been slowly eroded by the Lifestream over time, even after her initial rejection from the Lifestream similar to discussion below. (source: OG, DCFF7)

• Secondary Project G Subjects – most notably a handful of Copies from both Genesis and Angeal. This may be based on their manner of death, as Copies killed in the presence of Sephiroth seem to persist for a time, while those killed elsewhere do not. (source: CCFF7)

• DeepGround SOLDIERS – shown to leave corpses persistently enough for Nero to play with them in order to scare his opponents, but indicated to eventually dissolve based on the presence of damaged gear but lack of corpses in Nero's training room. (source: DCFF7, FF7R)

• Various fiends – shown to occur in gameplay and cutscenes. (source: CCFF7, FF7R, FF7EC)

• Various NPCs – energetically only, shown to be incapable of disseminating into the Lifestream after death due to some polluting action or affect applied during life. Should not be confused with rejection, discussed below, as the energetic remains of these lifeforms will eventually dissolve properly. (source: DCFF7, OTWTAS)

Rejection is the most rare outcome following death, at least with regard to physical bodies; energetic rejection is slightly more common by volume, but only because of one very large group energetically rejected by the Lifestream at a point several thousand years pre-canon.

Rejection is only indicated to occur for one of two reasons:

Incompatibility with the Lifestream itself.

The will of the planet based on necessity.

In cases of incompatibility, it's similar to the concept of mixing oil and water, two materials that will always eventually separate if not subjected to a chemical change to allow incorporation. With regards to the will of the planet, this occurs when the subject in question is integral to the continued functioning of the planet itself, and can't be allowed to remain physically decomposed or to energetically disseminate. To complete the metaphor of consumption and digestion, rejection via incompatibility would be instances of eating materials that can't be digested and should be ejected from the body, while rejection due to planetary processes is similar to swallowing something important and intentionally inducing vomiting in order to reclaim the item in question.

There are only six known cases of complete rejection, and one population-wide case of strictly energetic rejection:

• Jenova – complete rejection, body in usable condition with will intact even thousands of years after death. Remains persist in usable condition even years after destruction of main portion just prior to Meteorfall. Rejection appears to be caused by incompatibility due to extraterrestrial origin, as most individuals with Jenova infection, even severe cases, are eventually capable of dissolution to some degree. (source: OG, AC, FF7R)

• Sephiroth – complete rejection, body mostly intact and will fully intact five years after his death in the Nibelheim Incident, with will remaining energetically active even after final destruction of body. Body also capable of being reconstituted based on force of will. Rejection presumed to be caused by incompatibility due to Jenova's extraterrestrial origins. (source: OG, AC, FF7R, OTWTAS)

• Vincent Valentine – complete rejection, body regenerates and reconstitutes after death on multiple occasions. Originally serving as host to Chaos—a Weapon—the powers bestowed by this role persist even after its consciousness returns to the planet, proven by Vincent's return to form in Chaos' cave following complete physiological destruction during his last stand to stop Omega. This repeated rejection from the Lifestream, both physically and energetically, implies Vincent's position postcanon is that of Chaos' successor, not its container, rendering him integral to planetary processes. (source: OG, AC, DCFF7, OTWTAS)

• Cloud Strife – complete rejection, rejected from the Lifestream and healed of mortal wounds and illness multiple times. Rather than being due to incompatibility based on his S-cell infection, Cloud's rejections being fairly gentle—similar to Vincent's—seems to imply he's integral to planetary processes, presumably due to his unique ability to subdue Sephiroth. (source: OG, AC)

• Nero the Sable – complete rejection, body reconstitutes in the Void upon death while will and energetic remains persist on multiple occasions. Genetic relation to Chaos through use of corrupted mako in his conception presumably lead to him being viewed as equally integral to planetary processes, even if this may not be the case. (source: FF7DC, FF7R)

• Weiss the Immaculate – complete rejection, body persists even after death with will intact in spite of assumptions to the contrary and canonical complete energetic purity. Rejection appears to be due to his position as vessel of Omega, another Weapon, which renders him integral to planetary processes in much the same way as Vincent Valentine. (source: FF7DC)

• The Gi – energetic rejection only, affecting the entire species, although some bodies appear to still be intact in Cosmo Canyon for use in merit trials; possibly reconstituted through force of will, but more likely maintained by locals for cultural reasons. Rejection is due to incompatibility with the Lifestream, as the Gi are extraterrestrial lifeforms much like Jenova. (source: FF7R)

Again, there are instances that go against this interpretation, although those primarily take place in gameplay rather than in cutscenes or narrative, lending credence to the concept that these exceptions are based on game mechanics rather than lore.

If you read this far and this speaks to you, great! I'm glad I was able to shed some light on this particularly confusing fictional subject! If you read this far and this doesn't speak to you, that's also fine! Implications within canon don't necessarily make a particular interpretation the canonical one, after all.

Either way, thank you so much for lending me your time—I hope it was an enjoyable read, if nothing else.

Source Key: OG - Final Fantasy VII (1997) | AC - Advent Children (2005) + Complete (2009) | BC - Before Crisis (2004) | DCFF7 - Dirge of Cerberus (2006) | CCFF7 - Crisis Core (2007) + Reunion (2022) | FF7R - Final Fantasy VII Remake (2020) + Rebirth (2024) | FF7EC - Ever Crisis (2023) | OTWTAS - On The Way To A Smile (2004, 2009)

[rottenpumpkin13]

How tempting is it for Sephiroth to just DRINK mako or lifestream energy? Like the Jenova cells in him are just telling him to "slurp planet juice"

More tempting than we think I guess. I have a theory that even before Nibelheim his nature is insatiable starvation because of the Jenova cells. This man was probably looking at simulations of the Lifestream at Shinra and being unable to comprehend why it stirred his appetite.

*At mako reactor 1*

Angeal: Let’s try to get the job done quickly and clear out the monsters.

*Sephiroth looks longingly at the mako*

Angeal: Genesis, you take it from the left and I'll—Sephiroth, don't get too close to the railing, it's dangerous—I'll go up top and attack from there.

Angeal: Try not to inhale the mako fumes in the process, and Lazard says to watch out for—Sephiroth, get away from the—HE'S DRINKING THE MAKO.

[somebodys-nightmare]

Those Chosen by the Planet: Are Cloud & Tifa Soulmates?

We know from the OG/Compilation that Cloud & Tifa share a deep emotional and spiritual bond. But after Rebirth, I am curious about the true nature of their connection and how soul-bound they really are - and why.

In order to organize this efficiently, I’ve broken this down into parts to best explain both background information as well as specific events that have led me to my conclusions/thoughts. The outline is as follows:

Part 1: The Lifestream (Background)

Part 2: What’s Happening with Cloud?

Part 3: The Lifestream Scene (Chapter 9)

Part 4: The Reunion Flower & Tifa’s Trial

Part 5: The Ending

Part 6: The Lifestream Scene (OG/Part 3)

Part 7: Those Chosen by The Planet: Soul-bound

Let's get started!

Part 1: The Lifestream (Background)

To set the context, I want to first explain my thoughts on the nature of the Lifestream, which is the primary worldbuilding and lore context of FFVII and in particular, how it is being explored in the FF7R trilogy.

In the FFVII Rebirth Ultimania, scenario writer Mr. Nojima shares that he studied Buddhism’s Yogacara & Jung’s theory of the ‘collective unconscious’. He states these concepts inform the “worldview” of the story and give hints about the mysteries and the ending of the trilogy.

I believe that he is referring specifically to the multiple “worlds” that we see in FF7R, which in turn are manifestations of the Lifestream. Let’s break these down first. I will try to explain these concepts as succinctly and relevantly to FFVII as possible.

Yogacara is a school of Buddhist philosophy that states our experiences of the world are shaped entirely by our mind. What we perceive as the external world is really a projection of our consciousness. Thus, everything we experience is a result of mental activities & states.

There are 8 levels of ‘consciousness’ in the Yogacara philosophy:

1-5: The 5 Senses Consciousness: Sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. These are the things we “experience” in reality through our body’s physical perceptions.

6: The Mind Consciousness: The mental process that integrates and interprets the above sensory information. This is how our mind translates the Sense consciousness of what we see, hear, feel, etc.

7: The Self Consciousness: The aspect of consciousness that involves the sense of self and ego. This is the level of consciousness that revolves around our identity and how it relates to everything else.

8: The Storehouse Consciousness: The deepest level of consciousness that stores all past experiences and ‘karmic seeds’, influencing current and future experiences. These also shape and store an individual's hopes and dreams.

I believe that the Yogacara philosophy forms the lore’s basis of the ‘individual’ consciousness of a person, or their soul, as it relates to the Lifestream. Every human being has their own individual “Lifestream” which becomes a part of the “collective” Lifestream at death.

In this process, a person’s consciousness diffuses into the collective consciousness of the Lifestream. Considering what is happening to Cloud in the game, it is important to understand how the Yogacara and its levels of consciousness influence this lore.

Additionally, it's important to understand that both Sephiroth & Aerith are able to maintain their individual consciousness & not “diffuse” into the Lifestream. This is why after death they are still both ‘whole’ & able to traverse the Lifestream “worlds”.

Which brings me to…

The Collective Unconscious: In psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious describes the part of the unconscious mind that contains shared memories and archetypes common to all humanity.

These universal symbols & experiences influence our thoughts, feelings, & behaviors, connecting us to the broader human experience. It explains why people from different cultures or time periods can share myths, symbols, & themes in their stories and dreams.

I believe these both set basis for the “collective consciousness” of the Lifestream & its relation to the indivdual, which contains the essence of the planet & the memories, emotions, & knowledge of all who lived on it. In Rebirth, we see two representations of the Lifestream:

1. The Physical Lifestream: below ground, represented by ethereal green liquid, energy wisps, and rocky landscapes of the planet’s core. This is where Tifa falls in Gongaga, where the WEAPONs & Whispers are fighting, and where Sephiroth’s true form is.

It is also where Tifa sees fixed memories represented by holographs. This also seems to be the form of Lifestream reality in which the OG Lifestream scene takes place, again seen by the physical structures and the manner in which Cloud and Tifa fell into it in Mideel.

I believe the manifestations of individual consciousness/soul, or an individual’s lifestream, are seen here. Note that there is a physical battle between “the planet & its enemies” seen here and that Sephiroth is seen fighting perhaps more strenuously & aggressively than anywhere else, where we typically do not see his true form.

2. The Metaphysical Lifestream: This seems to be the “plane” of existence that manifests in infinite branches & paths, represented by rainbow imagery we see throughout the game & manifests the “worlds” present in 'Zack’s Story', each marked by a different breed of Stamp.

I believe that this is the manifestation of the “collective” Lifestream, thus containing memories, emotions, knowledge, AND hopes and dreams of the collective spirits within it.

This is where Zack’s realities manifest, representing, it seems, unfulfilled desires or unfinished business, creating a purgatory of sorts or a confluence of memories and emotions. Sephiroth and Aerith seem to have great power in and over these manifestations in different ways, which I believe is also a source of the conflict involving Zack (a separate conversation).

Now that we understand how the Lifestream seems to be functioning, this brings me to…

Part 2: What’s happening with Cloud?

Cloud’s true self/spirit/psyche is currently shattered within the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream. This is the definition of mako-poisoning, especially in a severe case like Cloud’s.

We see this explained with Jessie’s dad, as well as with Cloud in Mideel in the OG. When a person comes into prolonged contact with mako, they are at risk for information overload from the knowledge of the collective of the Lifestream.

This can cause a person to lose their sense of self, similar to how a person’s consciousness/soul diffuses into the Lifestream upon death. In the case of a living person who cannot withstand the mako poisoning, however, they become “trapped” or “shattered” in the Lifestream.

At this stage, Cloud is still functioning because his contact with Tifa allows him to “wake up” & build a persona, aided by the Jenova cells reading her memories, by his own desires & delusions of grandeur, and his memories of Zack’s experience.

However, we see his true, broken consciousness throughout the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream (Zack’s side story).

Tifa’s role, as we know, is to help Cloud restore his sense of self after further mako poisoning following the events of the Northern Crater when his false persona is broken and he falls into the Lifestream.

Which brings me to…

Part 3: The Lifestream Scene (Chapter 9)

There’s a lot to say about Chapter 9 and Gongaga, but Tifa falling into the Lifestream is arguably the most important scene in the game as far as foreshadowing for the final installment of the trilogy.

This scene’s purpose is to solidify Tifa’s heroine role for the third game and to prepare her for the task she will undertake, while giving basis for it - a basis that was famously unexplained in the OG but has now been fleshed out.

Tifa falls into the reactor’s mako pool & is carried directly into the physical Lifestream by the WEAPON in the earth’s core. Here, she sees her fixed memories, represented directly in the rocky terrain of the planet, & surrounded by energy wisps and liquid of the Lifestream.

While locations are fixed, images of memories are represented and play out with green holograms, and voices by green pulsing energy wisps. She also sees the white Whispers of the planet & the black Whispers of Sephiroth/Jenova fighting, & Sephiroth’s corruption of the Lifestream via Jenova, aka “Black” or “Negative” Lifestream, represented by purple energy.

Note that Sephiroth, in his true form, physically attacks Tifa & the WEAPON carrying her here.

I can’t say for sure, but while these are definitely Tifa’s memories, they also seem to be Cloud’s. Before Tifa falls into the Lifestream, Cloud becomes vulnerable to Sephiroth’s mental attack because of the effects of the mako fumes in the reactor. This leads me to believe there is an opening for Cloud’s consciousness in the Lifestream to be connected to Tifa's, and that the Planet took the opportunity of Tifa being pushed into the mako (by Cloud) to connect them.

The memories Tifa sees are her own but are also Cloud’s, and given the context of Gongaga but also Cloud’s identity crisis and the entire internal conflict, this is significant and what we must focus on.

The perspectives of the memories are more Cloud-centric - in 2 out of 3 the camera is behind Cloud (bridge and Tifa’s house) and in the third, the memory focuses on what Tifa is saying to Cloud (water tower).

We also have to consider Tifa’s lack of awareness of events and her memory loss during these memories. The Planet seems to be showing her these scenes from Cloud’s perspective to inform and prepare her prior to her duty in disc 2/part 3.

There are also untouched memory locations you can spot in the scene: the gates of Nibelheim, Stargazer Heights, and Seventh Heaven. The Nibelheim gates we know are important for Cloud’s identity from the OG Lifestream scene.

Stargazer Heights is where Cloud tells Tifa he remembers the promise (curiously, that memory is placed close to the water tower memory.)

And while Cloud and Tifa have obviously a lot of interactions in Seventh Heaven, I think the critical moments are actually those seen in Ever Crisis after Tifa finds Cloud at the train station, as those memories directly influence Cloud’s identity.

The “planet and its enemies” - The WEAPONs, Whispers, and Sephiroth and Jenova - are physically fighting over these memories. Sephiroth tries to kill Tifa here. We see the purple corruption of Lifestream Black occurring in this scene.

We see Tifa on the brink of death and seeing Cloud’s spirit being led away from her and her voice silenced from him by Sephiroth.

It seems to me that following this event, Cloud and Tifa’s consciousness’ are already linked. Tifa also has been given preemptive strength and knowledge to save Cloud when the time comes in part three.

Which brings me to…

Part 4: The Reunion Flower

The Reunion Lily appears on the mailbox of Tifa’s house twice: In Cloud’s flawed flashback of the Nibelheim Incident in Kalm, and during Tifa’s Trial in the Temple of the Ancients.

It does not appear at her house during the fixed memory in the Chapter 9 Lifestream scene. I think this is because the flower wasn’t actually there, but is rather a “totem” or marker of Cloud’s psyche.

Cloud knows from events in Remake what the flower symbolizes. In his flashback, he falsely remembers that he and Tifa reunited with him being a SOLDIER, though we know this isn’t true because he hid himself from her.

The flower reappears during Tifa’s Trial in the ToTA. Her trial takes place during the promise scene & the Nibelheim Incident, the same period as Cloud’s flashback, and when she was hoping to reunite with him - but thinks that she did not (because Cloud hid himself).

In the OG, the appearance of young Cloud is representative of the Real Cloud and his psyche. My belief is that his appearance here is another indication that after Tifa falls into the Lifestream, Cloud and Tifa are mentally and spiritually connected.

Next...

Part 5: The Ending

While the ending may be confusing, several replays make it clear to me that Aerith is dead & that once again, the metaphysical Lifestream (indicated by rainbows) is in play in what we see.

Cloud, who is shattered in the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream, can see what is “manifested” in these worlds. Similarly, these worlds are influenced not only by memories, and knowledge, but by hopes, dreams, and desires.

Without going off on another tangent, I think Cloud is seeing the manifestation of his desire to save Aerith’s life in the metaphysical Lifestream & that she is temporarily aiding him in this delusion (remember, Aerith can maintain her sense of self within the LS after death).

After the murder, Barret & Tifa run up & we are given BOTH of their perspectives of this death scene. Barret very clearly only sees the real-world scene - Aerith dead, bleeding, etc.

However, when we get Tifa’s perspective, she sees glimpses of what Cloud sees - including his mental static - with interspersed scenes of the real-world death and the rainbow Lifestream where Aerith is not dead or bleeding but is "saved”.

Tifa is quite confused & horrified but seems to accept the actual scene - her death. She is not deluded or blocking things out, she knows what is real.

It’s confusing but it is purposefully clear to me that Tifa is seeing, or can see, what Cloud sees. It is not revealed how much Tifa knows is Cloud’s delusion but it is clear that she is deeply affected, not only by the murder of her friend but by something else.

And Tifa remains disturbingly distraught for the rest of the game. In fact, when she calls Aerith’s name in this scene it’s her last line in the game - she does not speak again. Once again, this is a clue to me that Cloud & Tifa are soul-bonded bc of the chapter 9 events.

In the ending CGI, Cloud tells the group not to look up. Barret does and says he doesn’t see anything. Tifa looks up but doesn’t comment, instead continues to look distressed. Does she also see the rift that Cloud sees? Her behavior is the most jarring of the entire party.

In the penultimate cinematics, we see the WEAPONS circling Tifa & Cloud’s memories again, trying to protect them from “the planet’s enemies”. We can see Tifa’s house, the bridge, and the gates of Nibelheim under them.

These sequences are plot arrows for what we should expect to see in Part 3. It should be lost on no one that the planet is actively fighting to protect Cloud & Tifa’s precious memories, especially after personally guiding Tifa through them.

Which brings me to...

Part 6: The Lifestream Scene (OG/Part 3)

All of the above has led me to conclude that Cloud & Tifa are now spiritually or “soul-bound” in some way, explicitly for the preparation of the Lifestream Scene of Part 3.

Tifa’s role is to help Cloud “restore his sense of self” by entering his individual Lifestream and navigating their fixed memories and the truth about his identity in the physical Lifestream, which occurs when they fall in Mideel.

Rebirth has not only prepared Tifa for this role, but has given us the navigation, insight, and background lore for how it will occur and what the experience might actually entail. This may include elements of both the physical and Metaphysical Lifestream mentioned above.

It has set the stage for an in-depth expansion of the original scene that does not solely focus on what happened when rebuilding Cloud’s psyche, but the why behind his choices and decisions that let them to this moment.

These scenes have also demonstrated why Cloud’s consciousness - his individual Lifestream consciousness that contains his “self-consciousness” and “storehouse consciousness”- is and will remain closed off to anyone other than Tifa.

This is where Cloud’s true desires are concealed and must be revealed to Tifa in the Lifestream scene to facilitate his restoration and their reunion and reconciliation.

Which brings me to…

Part 7: Those Chosen by The Planet- Soulmates?

Why is all of this happening? Cloud is the boy who is destined to save the planet, and Tifa is destined to save him. If the planet has memories of the future as well as the past, then it knows this.

Just like the planet knows that it needs the last Cetra in the Lifestream to help save it, it also knows that it needs Cloud to defeat Sephiroth. And I think the planet has known this for a long time.

Is it far-fetched to wonder if the planet is somewhat responsible for the genesis of Cloud and Tifa’s bond? That, in keeping with the theme of fate, it has influenced the circumstances that have both brought them together and pulled them apart throughout the Compilation?

Is it possible that the planet kept baby Cloud and Tifa alive during the bridge incident? Now, with the context of the Remake Trilogy, I don’t see how two small children survived that fall.

Are Cloud and Tifa chosen by the Planet?

Are they soul mates?

Maybe we’ll find out.

Thanks for reading!

[foreststarflaime]

30. Sleeping habits and 50 for Aerith, Zack and Sephiroth

Back for more I see ty hehehhee I will not be light handed witb the angst

30. Sleeping habits

Aerith: She always has extremely vivid dreams. The nature of these dreams determines how well she sleeps each night—usually they’re good, or at worst strange, but nightmares are also no strangers to her. It’s like she’s drifting through the lifestream unhampered by her physical form when she sleeps. Many of the spirits that flow through it want to share their excitement and imagination with her. Some are incoherent and muddled, confused. Some are weighed down by sorrow, crying out for help they never received in life. She tries to treasure them all.

Zack: he has the ADHD bad sleep. He can never seem to get his brain to turn off enough to let him sleep without downing medications like melatonin (which don’t really work on SOLDIERs), and even then it wakes him up too early for when he went to sleep. And then he can’t go back to sleep, because it’s already running so quickly. He cannot take naps unless he is very sick because of this—it’s a sure sign something is very wrong.

Sephiroth: chronic insomniac, but not in the same way as Zack. Nightmares keep him awake all too often, and seem to appear every time he shuts his eyes. A good night’s sleep is as rare as a perfect diamond to him, and far more valuable. Some appear as good dreams, his mother offering him a comforting bowl of pumpkin soup, but when he wakes with a start he feels…unsettled, in a way he doesn’t know quite how to describe or its origin.

50. A memory they’ve blocked out

Aerith: when she was very young, she and Ifalna had been left a little freedom to stretch their legs around the science floor—under heavy observation, of course. No one stopped her as she toddled into one room with swinging double-doors…and froze in shock, at first not comprehending what she was seeing, as she came across the bad scientist doing something to a white-haired boy on a table. He met her eyes, and she felt a chill run down her back but at the same time felt great pity for the unspeakable sadness and pain she sensed from him. She tried to go towards them to comfort him, but Ifalna scooped her up and frisked her away in a hurry. Aerith only then registered how much red there had been on—no, in—his chest as she looked at him over her mother’s shoulder. The bad scientist had only laughed, looking at her with cold calculation.

Zack: while trapped in the basement of the Shinra Manor, he kept dreaming that Angeal had come to save him. Over and over again, he would see so vividly his hand reaching down for him with that teasing half-smile, just like he had that night in Fort Tamblin. And each time, he would wake and find his hope shattered yet again, as Hojo took him out of the mako tank to run yet another experiment on them. After a while, he just couldn’t take the roller coaster of emotions anymore. It’s not often that he remembers a dream, now, and Angeal’s smile has become a little blurry in his memory.

Sephiroth: all of them when he was incoherent with pain under Hojo’s knife one time, early on in his life, Gast happened to drop by. He saw what was happening, saw Seph crying out to him in the hopes that he would make it stop, and still he turned around and walked away. All that Seph accomplished was making Hojo be rougher and to extinguish even more of the tiny supply of hope he retained. For his own sake, he chose to block this out to maintain his idealized version of the scientist. For his own sake, he had to have had something good in his life, at least once.

[bardic-tales]

3.17.25 - Symbolism - Obsession & Devotion

Disclaimer: This post only applies to the Fantasy Worlds Collide (FWC) Sephiroth and Post-Nibelheim. While he is portrayed as accurately as I can, there may be some characteristics that differ. Most notably, he can't purge his love for Bianca Moore from him in the Lifestream.

Sephiroth, as portrayed in Fantasy Worlds Collide, draws inspiration from iconic dark lovers such as Erik in the Phantom of the Opera and Jareth from Labyrinth, blending themes of obsession, control, and tragic vulnerability. Much like the Phantom and Jareth, his love is as possessive as it is passionate, challenging the boundary between devotion and domination.

This article explores the thematic and symbolic connections between these characters, analyzing how their desire for love is entwined with their need for control. By examining Sephiroth’s obsession through this lens, we uncover the deeper tragedy of his character: a man who cannot accept loss and will rewrite reality itself to keep what he desires.

Content Warning: abuse, coercion, dominance, emotional manipulation, obsession, power imbalance, possessiveness, psychological control, toxic relationships

Sephiroth, as portrayed in Fantasy Worlds Collide, embodies the archetype of the obsessive, domineering lover in a way reminiscent of both the Phantom from the Phantom of the Opera and Jareth from Labyrinth. All three characters share an intense, almost otherworldly allure, coupled with a profound sense of isolation and a desire to claim the woman they fixate on as both a lover and an extension of their own existence.

Like the Phantom, Sephiroth is a figure cast away from humanity, his genius and power setting him apart in a way that breeds both grandiosity and loneliness. His love for Bianca, much like the Phantom’s obsession with Christine, is not built on equality but on the belief that she is meant to be his, tied to him by fate and destiny rather than mutual choice. This transforms their bond into something deeply possessive, where love and control are intertwined in an inescapable mixture of devotion and domination.

Jareth, on the other hand, represents another facet of Sephiroth’s dynamic with Bianca: temptation and the offer of a new reality shaped by his will. Just as Jareth presents Sarah with the promise of a kingdom where she would be his queen, Sephiroth offers Bianca a place in his envisioned future, a world reshaped by his divine will where she stands at his and Jenova's side as his dark queen. Both Jareth and Sephiroth do not merely love their respective women. They see them as integral to their self-concept, a missing piece that must be acquired to complete their ultimate vision. This is not mere romance. It is a test of devotion. It is a demand for submission cloaked in the guise of love. The power imbalance in these relationships makes them compelling, as they are driven by a question. Will the woman they desire yield to them, or will she resist and retain her own autonomy?

Despite these controlling tendencies, all three characters demonstrate moments of vulnerability, making their obsessions more tragic than purely villainous. For all his manipulations and cruelty, the Phantom is ultimately a man who yearns for love but does not know how to receive it in a way that is not possessive or coercive. despite his playful and charismatic exterior, Jareth masks a deeper loneliness, hiding his own need for love beneath the illusion of omnipotence. In the FWC, Sephiroth mirrors this same tragedy. His bond with Bianca is not just about power, but about the fear of being alone in his vision. The Red Thread of Fate between them is both a connection and a shackle, amplifying his possessive nature while also revealing his deepest insecurity: the possibility of losing her. In this way, his obsession is not just an extension of his power-hungry ambitions but a desperate attempt to hold onto the one person who understands and truly loves him in all his dark glory.

Symbolically, these characters represent the dangers of unchecked obsession and the blurred lines between love and control. The Phantom, Jareth, and Sephiroth all offer their respective women a kind of love that is intoxicating, powerful, and deeply binding, yet it is love on their terms, dictated by their desires rather than the needs of their partner. Like Christine and Sarah, Bianca is faced with a choice. Should she surrender to this love and allow herself to be consumed by it or to navigate the fine line between devotion and self-preservation? This struggle adds complexity to their relationships, making them not just romantic figures but symbols of deeper psychological and emotional conflicts. Their love is one of possession, but it is also a manifestation of their own insecurities. It is their need for control stemming from the fear of abandonment and irrelevance.

What makes Sephiroth particularly compelling in this dynamic is that unlike the Phantom, who is ultimately rejected, or Jareth, who allows Sarah to slip away, Sephiroth does not accept loss. His obsession with Bianca is woven into his very being, reinforced by their soul bond, their shared destiny, and his belief she is a key figure in his destiny.

This is what elevates his possessiveness beyond that of his literary counterparts. His connection to Bianca is not just emotional but metaphysical. The Red Thread of Fate ensures that even if she were to resist, he would still feel her presence. He would still experience the echoes of her existence within him. This makes their relationship even more dangerous, as his love is not one that can be severed easily. It is as much a curse as it is a bond. It's an unbreakable tether that fuels his possessive need to keep her by his side, whether by will or by force.

Ultimately, Sephiroth, the Phantom, and Jareth all embody the archetype of the dark, obsessive lover: men who exist on the fringes of humanity, offering a love that is both captivating and suffocating. Their relationships are not about simple romance, but about power, identity, and control, making them some of the most compelling figures in fiction. Sephiroth’s unique tragedy lies in his refusal to let go and his unwavering belief that Bianca is his by divine right. This makes their love story one of intense passion and inevitable destruction of existence and possibly themselves. It is a tale of a battle between autonomy and possession, devotion and domination. In the end, their bond, like the stories of the Phantom and Jareth, serves as a haunting reminder of the fine line between love and obsession and the consequences of crossing it.

tagging some fellow mutuals: @themaradwrites @whatwedointhecraft @megandaisy9 @watermeezer

@prehistoric-creatures @creativechaosqueen @chickensarentcheap @seastarblue

@inkandimpressions @arrthurpendragon

[salternateunreality2]

Concept I CANNOT get out of my head: Lucretia ends up pregnant with identical twins. Sephiroth has a brother. How does this change the story?

Thanks for the ask! Lots of possibilities here, so there's a sad/likely one up top and some happy crack ones if you scroll down.

Angst answer (CW: major character death, Hojo shenanigans)

Hojo pits them against each other to encourage growth and competition. Fear of punishment plus natural ambition (they have 3 very ambitious parents) drive a wedge between them.

They bond a bit over shared trauma, but Hojo is invested in severing that bond every chance he gets, to make them more dependent on him.

Wutai falls almost immediately. Rhadore is wiped off the map mercilessly. Shinra's power grows at an even more alarming rate.

Due to their fierce competition, they don't spend time getting to know anyone. The saving graces that could have been in their lives (FS trio, Banora Boys, Zack) are shoved aside. They are very, very lonely men, or even boys because the plot progresses so much more quickly.

They are bitter, spiteful, and sharp. Cadets and underlings fear them.

Only one gets sent to Nibelheim, and Hojo knows what's there. The other is kept at home as a control.

He falls, of course. If he is younger because of the accelerated conquering, then Cloud doesn't stop him and dies as a child in the fires. Zack hasn't made rank and is probably just a trooper, and it's one of both of the Banora boys who tries to stop him.

Let's go with both for maximum angst!

Crazyroth wounds Angeal severely and Genesis manages to stab him and kill him while getting severely wounded himself and sliding down to meet Angeal. Zack is either killed in the river or by Crazyroth as a trooper.

Angeal and Genesis are picked up by Hojo for experimentation. Tifa's also dead because she was a younger child too and hadn't advanced enough in training yet.

Hojo is furious Crazyroth died, but he still has Normalroth...well, Jenova got activated somewhat during Crazyroth's rampage and is now in the lifestream with him...so Normalroth is getting constant migraines.

Angeal wakes up and breaks himself and Genesis out, following Zakkura's path. Thanks to Hojo's experimentation, they don't suffer degradation and thanks to their prior enhancements, Genesis wakes up sooner than Cloud did.

Genesis is furious and convinces Angeal to go to war against Shinra. Unfortunately, with no bond to hold him back and no clones to help GenGeal, Normalroth obliterates the pair, but does get wounded.

Meanwhile, Aerith is haunted by the planet's screams as Jenova taints the lifestream, just as Normalroth is haunted by his brother's voice echoing his mother's.

Avalanche proceeds as normal and the president drops the plate. Aerith is spared by the Turks, Hojo finds out, kidnaps her to make her make babies with Normalroth.

The only thing that saves her from that fate is Normalroth snapping after all his headaches and killing everyone, including her, in the tower.

The Turks sensed danger and got Rufus away, but now a planet-level threat is roaming around all rabid and there are no plucky teams of young adults to band together, collect friends, and stop him. Plus, Jenova+Twinroths starts from a stronger position with a living body.

Jenova gets her way, eats everyone on the planet, and uses it as a vessel to see the stars.

Twinroths are finally at peace, doing one activity they both always loved: stargazing.

As they fly, conquering worlds and living freely, they meld together more and more into one entity with Jenova, and enjoy it immensely. At long last, the connection they longed for ❤️😺😺🐙❤️

Precious boys:

Them riding Mother's coattails:

Crack answer 1:

It's Chadley. Chadley and Sephiroth.

In the most likely scenario, this just results in Hojo letting Chadley skip some torture as long as his scientific progress is beneficial to Hojo, but the boys both still get trained in war and end up in the angst case above.

Sephiroth cracks first, then Chadster.

In a more hopeful situation, both boys spend more time on science and the angst above is delayed by a few years! Woo!

In the best case scenario, they band together. Sephiroth wants to protect his "baby" brother and Chadley wants to protect his naive older brother and they work together to kill Hojo and Shinra and run off with Glenn and co. and live happily ever after as accomplished astronomers and maybe astronauts.

Crack answer 2:

They are gremlins of the highest order and enable each other in escape attempts, eventually finding Vincent, who falls for their chaotic charm immediately and protects them with his life.

[castellankurze]

ok but for real FF14 fans we gotta talk about the next 20 years in Eorzea cause it's gonna be wild

*There's gonna be some general Shadowbringers & Endwalker spoilers in this post.*

I'm making this now because something in 6.5 reminded me of this idea - no spoilers for 6.5 in particular though.

------------------------------------

So first, quick refresher: the FF14 setting has a pretty standard for the genre afterlife wherein souls of the dead merge with the planet's lifestream, they beat about for awhile, maybe ruminate on their past life, and then they can either merge with the greater whole or be reborn as new people. This got outlined all the way back in the 2.x patch series and became a major part of the plot for the Shadowbringers expansion, wherein the Warrior of Light is revealed to be a reincarnation of the ancient soul of Azem, or how the character Gaia is also a reincarnation of one of the Ascians.

Also a major part of the Shadowbringers plot are the revelations about the secret history of the world. How in forgotten ancient times, civilization threatened by a calamity called the Final Days offered up hundreds or possibly thousands of souls to create the god that would be known as Zodiark who would preserve the world, and how in time the goddess Hydaelyn would be created as an opposition to Zodiark's power. And that she ultimately sundered him into 14 pieces - and because Zodiark's nature was fundamentally tied into the essence of the world, when he was broken so too was the very planet and every living soul upon it, divided into the singular 'Source' and thirteen 'shards.' As part of Shadowbringers' plot, the character of Ardbert is revealed to be the First-shard part of the soul of the Warrior of Light, reuniting near the end of 5.0, and to villain Emet-Selch, these sundered souls are a pitiful shadow of the powerful, vibrant beings they once were in ancient times, unworthy of life.

Now here's where things get interesting.

During the course of our Endwalker adventures, we reach the lunar prison where the body of Zodiark is held captive. Due to some villainous machinations, the ancient god's bonds have been partially broken and his essence is leaking out, taking the form of ancient shades wandering about. One in particular we speak to is named Hythlodaeus. We had previously met this character - sort of, in the form of a memory conjured by Emet-Selch. This is the true Hythlodaeus, an ancient soul sacrificed to bring Zodiark into being. Despite joining the multitude of souls and the long slumber in imprisonment, he's coherent and holds a conversation.

Unsurprisingly, as the main character of a Final Fantasy title we go on to kill our setting's oldest god, and in so doing get a good look at the effect of the sundering on Zodiark: namely that in his case it was pretty literal, splitting off pieces of his body. However the interesting part of the Endwalker's implications is that while Zodiark was sundered, the individual souls that made up his being were not - after this confrontation we see and speak to our old new friend Hythlodaeus again, and again, both in a journey to the distant past and as we call up his soul for aid at the climax of the story...and he's the same person every time.

This...strongly hints that the myriad of ancient, unsundered souls which made up the bulk of Zodiark's essence have returned to the lifestream, and while major characters like Hythlodaeus, Emet-Selch and Venat seem content to leave the cycle of reincarnation for good and pass the world on to us modern folk...is that going to be true for everyone?

Are there, in fact, dozens - hundreds - thousands of Ancient, unsundered souls milling about in the aetherial sea, contemplating a return to the living world? Will the world of Etheirys over the next few years see a sudden wave of children with incredible power as these souls start to be reborn? Will the Warrior of Light, a soul merely eight times rejoined, be eclipsed in sheer strength by the might of a new generation?

The story will probably never go to such a place - after all it would essentially undo the themes of its two biggest expansions, and besides which, the story of FF14 as a whole will probably not venture so many years down the timeline to explore such a possibility.

But still. They say everything old is someday new again.

[altocat]

i'm still behind on first soldier but I did want to talk about something briefly.

when I first got involved with ff7 I used to think sephiroth was always strong and scary and in control. but I think he's actually now a lot sadder than he was before. and a lot more scared of everything. he's a really sad character and i feel bad for him and his mother. he loved his mother so much and just wanted to see her :(

One thing I really like Sephiroth is his duplicity--I don't just mean his ability to manipulate others. Sane!Sephiroth is far from manipulative. What I meant was the fact that, outwardly at least, Sephiroth projects the image of a violent and courageous war hero, always in control, always above everyone else, always rising to the occasion.

In actuality, Sephiroth is an incredibly emotionally stunted individual, at least in regards to how he conceptualizes himself and his overall sense of purpose. His needs are childlike. He wants love and validation. He wants a sense of security through connection. And when he loses his resources, he crumples. His fixation with his mother is especially tragic because the player gets the strong impression that this has weighed on him pretty much all his life. And that some part of him might always be Sephiroth the child, wanting what he can't have, victimized by the wider narrative, unable to truly obtain a sense of agency under Shinra's orders.

Naturally, in any other story in which Sephiroth is the protagonist, this would eventually give way to a kind of coming of age narrative. And at first, maybe Nibelheim IS something of that sort--Sephiroth's realization of what he truly is and confronting the destruction of his life, his childhood, his entire sense of false security under Shinra.

But that's when things get pretty messed up. It reverses. Sephiroth chooses not to rise above the circumstances of his birth but to double down. He dooms himself, proves his weakness. He returns to his "mother", returns to the metaphorical "womb'' of the Lifestream, and ceases to conceptualize himself beyond his relationship with Jenova. It's not a coming of age. It's a regression.

Sephiroth has so many layers. He's a credible threat. He's a tragic hero. He's a monster. And a murderer. A victim and a victimizer. Cruel and vengeful and irredeemable and broken beyond repair.

And, in many, many ways, still very much a child. A grown adult who never truly grew up.

[esamastation]

There's a recent flush of DCU and Danny Phantom (ghost kid TV show) crossovers on tumblr, so would the Lifestream be connected to other afterlives like the ghosts in their interconnected Infinite Realms?

If so would Undergrowth try and adopt all the Centra like Arieth? Like Cloud literally being physically haunted by his dead friends cause one was taught how to find or make natural portals. Both Wulf the wolfman ghost and Cujo the puppy ghost have portal abilities, so Zack?

Alas, I have never seen Danny Phantom, sadly, so I don't really feel I'm up to writing about it. Would love to read a FFVII crossover with it tho.

[the-fandom-crossroads]

Just finished rewatching Advent Children with bro and wow that explained a lot more than I thought it would. Bro had never seen it and I remembered the white void showing up there and that the 3 villains were sephiroth clones. I completely forgot the other hints towards Remake.

But Spoilers for Remake and Rebirth I guess?

I now understand why everyone insists Remake Sephiroth is Advent Children Sephiroth. Like the exact same monologue about going to space with cloud. And Advent Children was him revealing this new bigger plan to cloud. If Remake Sephiroth was the original VII sephiroth he should still just want to use meteor because it's "mother's" will.

But like all that is old news for folks who remembered Advent Children when playing through Remake 4 years ago.

I think the things Rebirth builds on about the lifestream is more interesting. The pond that forms in Aerith's church in AC is a natural mako spring like the countless ones we find in rebirth. Flowers are able to grow there long after Aerith's death because of this spring just below the surface.

When Cloud "dies" in Advent Children he meets Aerith and Zack in the white void before they decide to put him back. He's released from the lifestream in the natural mako spring now in Aerith's church just like how Tifa is tossed back out when she enters with the whale.

Again for anyone who's recently watched AC it's obvious the white void is meant to represent the lifestream. But that means Rebirth is confirming the Lifestream is a bridge between the different universes. Zack enters the Lifestream and runs into Remake cloud who's also been pulled in. AC is all about how Sephiroth is still in the lifestream and that's how Kadaj is able to be possessed by him once he has enough Jenova cells. Cloud kills Sephiroth putting him back in the Lifestream. The Lifestream that connects all vii worlds.

AC Sephiroth then uses the lifestream to start appearing before a Cloud that has only just reached Midgar. His Meddling summons the whispers which fight back to keep things to the "cannon" timeline. Sephiroth of course tricks team Avalanche into destroying the head Whisper allowing him to take control of them. Again old news for anyone that knew Sephiroth wanted them to break the bonds of Fate.

But if Sephiroth is using the lifestream to mess with other worlds. it shouldn't be a surprise one of the Aerith's also already in the lifestream got involved too. As other's have pointed out the Aerith that gives cloud the not empty White materia isn't remake Aerith. But another Aerith that pulled him into that universe to give him a functioning white materia. But somehow Remake Aerith knew the hand over happened? Because in the white forest she asks cloud for the materia and they swap so she has a functioning white materia. That part confuses me a little. How did our Aerith know the handoff happened?

Also Rufus and Kadaj have a conversation about how everything's a cycle. That Jenova "Mother" will always try to destroy the planet and the lifestream/humanity will always fight back. Made me realize AC Sephiroth wasn't going back on his timeline to make a new one but hopping into the next timeloop. OG VII and Advent Children's cannon is locked in. Remake is truely that a remaking of the timeline made possible by Cloud and Co defeating the whispers that enforce the timeloops. So now instead of one spiral after another and infinite number of spirals are forming while the remake loop is still happening.

That's why Sephiroth waited until the *spoilers* cannon event to appear in Rebirth. It's an all the stars a line situation. All timeloops have that moment, regardless of how it's different in different versions.

But Rebirth's cannon event was just a test run. Sephiroth wanted to see how much power he could gain just from multiple timelines merging at one point.

Sephiroth already told us what he really wants. The Black materia but not the one from the remake universe no the ultimate black materia forged from all the black materia. And what's the next big plot point that could be a cannon event? Cloud's breakdown at the northern crater after handing the Black Materia over to Sephiroth. If there's any point where the timelines would over lap it would be there. We already saw the power boost Sephiroth got. If that power boost happens to the black Materia yeah that's a multiverse destroying meteor right there.

Wow was that a long wall of text about stuff everyone else probably already knows. But I just had to put all the clarity Advent Children gave me about Remake and Rebirth somewhere. Expect a spiral timeline graphic in the future. Cause I feel like i'm forgetting to explain some of it right.